Third Rail Politics
Nationally, it's anything to do with Social Security.
Locally, it's remapping the police Districts.
Someone is daring to touch it:
More than a half-dozen local and state officials gathered on the Southwest Side Thursday to call for the Chicago Police Department’s Chicago Lawn District (8th) to be split in two to better serve the quarter-million residents of the area.
“To say we are overdue for more police support is an understatement,” Ald. Marty Quinn, 13th, told reporters and more than 50 area residents during a Thursday morning news conference at the Chicago Public Library’s Clearing Branch.
“The 8th District ranks number one for all crimes committed across the city of Chicago. The 8th District, the one we’re standing in today, is the biggest and busiest district in the city.”
That might be a slight exaggeration (in terms of busiest), but truly, 008 is far too big to be patrolled effectively. But so is 016. And what is the common denominator?
- massive numbers of active and retired officers who for years, kept these two districts stable (for lack of a better word)
But with manpower diminishing and more retirees vacating the area, this isn't true any more. And just splitting 008 (and 016) into smaller areas means four poorly patrolled Districts.\
The Department should have been re-mapping every ten years or so along with the census as neighborhoods expanded, contracted, experienced demographic and density changes. Once the projects came down, 002 should have been first on the re-mapping table, followed by any District that lost high rises and gained "scattered site" housing. Simply combining 012 and 013 was an error with the station being a half hour away for any car on the north end.
Re-mapping would have made sense AND gotten people used to the idea that things change instead of being stuck with the mindset that "it's always been this way."
Can it be fixed?
Labels: department issues
posted by SCC at 12:05 AM
75 Comments:
It can’t be fixed with 4 foot 9 inch female commanders with big butts.
Appearances do not command respect.
Somehow I think a thousand more police officers would solve a lot of the problems people are complaining about!
Re-beating -additional beats- with additional personal would work. People seem to think that the police follow the fire dept model, sit around the station waiting for a call. Not that that isn't a bad idea during this political climate, but the calls for service are all dispatched from a central location. New districts mean more exempts, more house cats, etc, and with out more hiring would only takeaway and not add anything. The aldermen should know that are are probably grandstanding.
Splitting 008 into two districts would be a waste of manpower, because now, with a newly created district, you need another set of commander's office personnel and another set of personnel for the CAPS office, plus the desk crew, plus the tact officers.
What is needed is to simply re-assign a ton of officers to 008, that would only be assigned to work beat cars to respond to jobs.
Where do we get these officers? Disband the community safety team. Get rid of the tact teams in most if not all the districts. Get rid of most if not all the "foot post" assignments. Get rid of the "entertainment units" of 018 and 019. Get rid of the narcotics and intelligence units. Do not allow officers to be assigned to schools, anywhere. Stop any "TSSS card" traffic stop details or assignments, ANYWHERE. TSSS traffic stops do not lower crime and exist only to give stats to bosses to talk about at Compstat.
Then, bingo! Plenty of officers to work beat cars in 008.
If you look at the old (keep reading please) Chicago Police Star magazines you will find at the linked (SCC) ChicagoCop.com ,from the 1960's and 1970's, you'll find articles addressing the expansion, and consolidation, of the Department. Also, manpower (oops, I mean staffing). Their narrative is without bullshit ideology and cogent. Point is, there's nothing new under the sun, stick with common sense!
Not on my watch!!!!
Your illustrious Mayor's Puppet,
The Magnificient Snelling of the Nuzzler Clan
When you look at the seventh district both on Zone 6 and 008 what did the article say there’s 43 coppers per thousand and seven and like 10 coppers per thousand in 008. This is ridiculous. They’ve been talking about splitting 008 for years and years probably 30 years but you also need man powder a lot of manpower, which we do not have I was looking at on Facebook the Recruitment division for the Chicago police department. Looks like they’re going all over the country to beg people to join the police department. They’ve lowered standards. They’ve lowered everything. Apparently people don’t want the job. Didn’t the governor come up with the illegal criminals to be able to take the job maybe that’ll be the next thing many of them are meant military trained they’re ready to go oh that I said military I meant gang style trained.
As it stands, I would never live in 008. The racism along would drive me out.
Ha! Ha!
You can’t get enough people or folks to take this job now!
The 12th and 13th districts never truly came together. It has been two separate groups for over ten years now. It will take another five to seven years before every officer who originally merged is gone.
The shitty is beyond being fixed unless one is part of the in crowd
What about 004? 75th Street on the north, 138th Street on the south.
Splint in two means more people off the streets. Count number of house mice currently in the one station that is how. Any that will be need d I any new station. Where are they coming from, the street patrol. Unless the Academy now has a course for house mice.
Remapping the districts is long overdue. That by itself will do nothing. We don't need more districts. That just adds to the administrative state. We don't need a whole new army of desk dollies and pin cushions for the exempts. The CPD needs to be torn down and rebuilt from the ground up. LS going after everyone with a beard or bad haircut isn't going to do much. The truth everyone knows is that the department has added so many admin positions (with no one on the street) is killing the few who answer the jobs or do any kind of police work. The office of Constitutional Policing, TRED, FRU, Etc, Etc, are beyond a waste of time that just makes those who work the street bitter. Body Cameras, in car cameras, and cameras in general have almost ended intentional misconduct. Most so called bad behavior is just someone losing their temper. That will never change.
The most important question is never asked to the right people. What can be done to make things better for the working police officer?????? Having all the do nothings (majority of the department) chime in about 10 hour days and more training is a waste. I could name 50 examples. How about making the lockups all civilians. There is no need for a PO in the lock up. How about bringing back civilians to work the radio room and handing out the keys and body cameras. I started in the 90's, those spots were always a civilian. For the love of God make the timekeepers civilians. Most of us could have done that job in 8th grade. Can we please hire professional secretaries to work the front office and other admin duties in the district. Why do we as taxpayers handout 100k plus each to 3 or 4 human beings (I won't even call them officers as they had no intentions of ever being the police) to work in the Commander's , Deputy, or Chiefs office????? You could hire two civilians at 70K to do the same job. They would do double the work for half the cost and put more officers on the street. Can we build new Areas please!!!! The areas are way too small and beyond old and disgusting. Let's move traffic court to the area. Some officers might start writing tickets if they didn't have to go downtown for traffic court. I could go on and on but I'll stop before I get into changing the promotional process (house mouses and do nothings wouldn't have been eligible for starters). Please bash away.
SCC I think you've done this in the past but a thread on it with your suggestions wouldn't hurt.
No way it’s going to happen. Too much money, city projects never get completed on time and are always over budget.
Same thing goes for South Chicago. From 135th Street in Hegwisch to 75th and South Chicago Ave is 13 miles in city traffic. 75th and Dobson is less than a mile from the 003rd District. Forget it if a bridge is up over the river. The old excuses about Illinois Bell phone exchanges no longer hold water. Just like Garfield Ridge and the areas west of Midway, the East Side and Hegewisch are no longer populated by police and fire families.
Open all the districts you want. What are you going to do for (working) manpower.
The 002 district was remapped, when 021 district was closed.
"More with less". remember that ?? LOL
More districts just means mire house mice and phone calls going inside. FU
008 def need remapping.
007 can extend to Western.
009 can ext to 59th st.
006/022 can take some bit of the south end
Anonymous said...
It can’t be fixed with 4 foot 9 inch female commanders with big butts.
Appearances do not command respect.
1/13/2024 12:21:00 AM
Big butts go a long way on this job, you can't deny...
Don't live in Chicago, so don't know squat about any of this, but it kind of sounds to an outsider like somebody somewhere is suggesting the need for more cops. Are these Demoncrats drinking some kind of MAGA Kool-Aid?
“It’s always been this way” should be the city motto.
Long time ago, they should have remapped 008, and annexed some of the east end to 007.
Back in the 70s there was no 24th District and the 20th District went from Montrose to Howard and they worked in the tiny station on Foster.
1800 Officers down....fill the spots, that 81 more Officers a District.
Quantity and Quality of Crime were Ex Director McDonald R&D
boilerplate reply thru the years....022nd Geography be damned!
Those districts would be fixed if half the residents were in jail, where they belong.
Hey, how about hiring part time "Auxiliary police" officers?
The cost would be less due to No pension or medical would be required for them.
Instead of increasing the 'brick and mortar' aspects of 008 & 016, along with additional staff to man the additional buildings etc., a more effective way would be to reduce the size of the beats, adding more as necessary to cover the large areas. Add more personnel to both districts to man the revised, additional beats. I know, I know, we're short staffed as it is but it makes more sense not to physically split a district on the map but to maintain (extra) sufficient manpower to address the issue of size and scope of those large districts in area.
Just my .02.
Stay Safe= #1 !
(CPD ret)
I see a lot of comments about "Put the house mice, desk dollies & pincushions on the street. Give the lockup, admin and radio jobs to civilians and put the POs in those slots on the street..."
Be honest, kids.
Would you want any of those assholes backing you up or, worse yet, as a partner?
No frelling way.
Make 008 bigger!
Where do we get these officers? Disband the community safety team. Get rid of the tact teams in most if not all the districts. Get rid of most if not all the "foot post" assignments. Get rid of the "entertainment units" of 018 and 019. Get rid of the narcotics and intelligence units. Do not allow officers to be assigned to schools, anywhere. Stop any "TSSS card" traffic stop details or assignments, ANYWHERE. TSSS traffic stops do not lower crime and exist only to give stats to bosses to talk about at Compstat.
You must be new. They already disbanded cst and made them area teams. Like they were before cst was created. The tac teams are the only people doing any work in any of the districts, disband them and nothing will get done. Besides, they are bid spots in their districts and can’t just be moved to work beat cars in 008. The entertainment teams in 018 and 019 are needed to deal with all the bar bs in those districts. Outside 018 and 019 they aren’t any foot posts any more, even 012 can’t man them.
You have to have a narcotics and gang intel, intel units for long term and conspiracy cases. I agree we should be out of the schools, they don’t want us in there anyway.
What’s needed is new hires, and they’re not coming. They have made this job undoable and as undesireable to the point that nobody wants it. Nobody wants to be political fodder and end up on the evening while trying to do this job. 008 needs to be split but they’d never be able to man a new district so it won’t happen.
Spreyne has like 50 people working inside hidden in various spots. 008 has been run by the same in breds from Mt Green wood for years with the exception of kup they have all sucked.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
The 12th and 13th districts never truly came together. It has been two separate groups for over ten years now. It will take another five to seven years before every officer who originally merged is gone.
Long live Wood Street!
Streisand effect Barbra "it's not Barbara!" using PPP money.
https://nypost.com/2024/01/12/entertainment/barbra-streisands-firm-got-200000-ppp-cash-paid-gardener/
How about have 015 go up to North ave?
Maybe then have 025 go to Addison..
In 1977 008 had 3 additional beats … 1 for each sector. That would be a start. Add additional man power.
It can’t be fixed with 4 foot 9 inch female commanders with big butts.
Appearances do not command respect.
Who’s butt you looking at?
Civilanizing is NOT the answer. Let's start with you think you gonna get more or better work hahaha then some of that information is sensitive and personnel needs to be vetted and having something lose if they dare thought of doing stupid shit. You want random civilian off the street having your social security #, address, phone #, pay breakdown and various info like children included *known and those on-the-side babies ;) then there's the games of I gonna give my buddy thus but not that one etc lol
beats are determined by calls for service, and the bosses keep looking to other major cities for the number of police per population ratio, and we are one of the higher ones, so they dont care. shrinking the force is the plan and we play right into it. we dont call the police for anything, while others call for everything. we dont generate rd#s so we get ignored. im leaving this shithole as soon as i can.
New Districts? Did someone figure out how to Divide by Zero?
1]Zero Crime Divided By Zero Folks = Zero Crime (goofy logic)
2]Zero Arrests Divided By Zero Prosecutions = Crazy Crime Real Number
Theorem 2 seems a Math Proof of Sorts in Cook County.
Now that 008 is becoming more Hispanic and black they will look to give them more services. When 008 was predominantly white city workers the political class didn’t care
Never gonna happen, where would the police station be? What are they going to do? Split the hairs of manpower down into a new district? Na. Nice try, the city is cheap, full of shit, and a progressive liberal commie sanctuary I mean 3rd world shithole.
The fuck it CAN’T.
Anonymous said...
It can’t be fixed with 4 foot 9 inch female commanders with big butts.
Appearances do not command respect.
1/13/2024 12:21:00 AM
“Anonymous Anonymous said...
As it stands, I would never live in 008. The racism along would drive me out.
1/13/2024 05:09:00 AM”
Which variety of “racism” do you speak of because the “minority” population is now the majority?
008 used to be a sleepy district. Gee I wonder what changed?
In the mid-1980s the eighth district had besides what they have now 2 to 3 traffic cars a car dedicated to archer Avenue 806D, they had sector cars, two extra cars sometimes three extra cars per sector three wagons all fully manned and ET plus they had cars assigned to Saint Rita high school They had one assigned to Western Avenue plus neighborhood relations had a car or 2+ they had the tactical team which they already have. Plus the mission teams foot teams. Oh, and they had a car assigned to Ford city a two person unit sometimes two of them so that would equal four people then they would have 4 to 6 coppers assigned to midway airport. That’s another question why do we have a big police detail at Midway and O’Hare Airport plus we have aviation security plus they have a connected security firm patrolling the parking lots. Why do we need all this why don’t we just have security and when they need the real police they can call them to respond would bring another couple hundred coppers into the district that would help
If you need more cops to plus up 008 and split it in two I suggest removing all officers from places like Hyde Park & anywhere on the near north side. You know, places where the highest concentrations of leftist police hating douchebags with "BLM" and "hate has no home here" signs live. Those communist bastards hate the police and don't want them around anyway (right up until they get hit on the head and robbed ) so fuck em. Give them the chaos they want, that they voted for and insist upon and take care of the parts of the city that actually sort of appreciate the police.
Make 008 Great Again!!
Seems like everyone is missing the point... DON'T SPEND MONEY FOOLISHLY, ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS HAVE THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF POLICE OFFICERS IN EVERY DISTRICT. That's what no one wants to admit, the department is probably short 3k to 4k officers. Just look at the numbers of sworn personnel in each District today, compare that number to 10 years ago. I bet that most Districts are short between a quarter to half of what they use to have. Don't forget that we also got rid of Districts ( 13th, 21st, and 23rd ).
I work in 008 and I can assure you that this is not a retirement district , I’m not hanging around the park feeding the squirrels all day. I don’t agree that the district should be split but one thing for sure is that some of the beats in 008 should be cut in half, some beat cars have to cover a whole bunch of real estate. In other districts you have coppers running into each other and backup is right around the corner but here it’s gonna be a while before backup shows up because we’re so spread out. Splitting the district in two is not the answer we need to remap the beats for better coverage
Let’s just merge with county and have a metropolitan department. The bosses in CPD are incompetent and little bitches. I hope this city burns during the DNC
We're talking about Cop Deserts?
Chicago Police Department Staffing Analysis | Civic Federation
Jul 8, 2022Police Officers Per Capita. Another commonly used measure is the ratio of police force size to population served. Based on data reported to the FBI in 2020 by 15,875 law enforcement agencies across the country, the national ratio of police officers to population is 2.4 officers per 1,000
If my math is right with the addition of 36,000 illegals here and growing we should have 87 new officers just to guard the 28 new public housing illegal immigrant warehouses, warming buses and the TLZ
However putting more cops in areas where crime occurs we all know is racist cuz if disproportionately affects P.o.C
Wait...I thought defunding the police was gonna solve everything...?
I remember when beat size was based on index crime and calls for service. A busy area with a lot of crime equaled a small beat; the opposite for low crime areas with few service calls. Then someone had the brilliant idea of taking a district map and drawing a numbered tic tac toe symbol on it. Voila: there’s your new high-tech district beat map.
All that would do is double the house mice and inside people. 5 per each watch on the desk. 1-2 per watch in the SDSC. 1-3 per watch in the leisure room. Lieutenant and desk sergeant. You’re talking about 40 additional inside spots across the watches.
008 def need remapping.
007 can extend to Western.
009 can ext to 59th st.
006/022 can take some bit of the south end
1/13/2024 09:24:00 AM
This is probably the best solution at the moment. For 016, I think 015 can stretch into 025 which would allow 025 to take a chunk of 016's south end. 017 could take a chunk of the east while 014 alleviates some of 017.
I would also like to see some fat trimming with many inside spots such the party planners with guns, aka Caps. Dcos should also go back to the watches along with several do-nothings at headquarters. It's sad and disgusting seeing young faces in cush spots while you see some old ones still pushing a beat car.
Someone else questioned if we really wanted the house mice backing us up? No, of course not. But they will either sink or swim. They will quit which would be great. Just taking up space and money
It is not the size of any police district , It is the shitbags that are moving in to that area.
8 used to be old people that called about someone parking in front of their house. Now
it is nothing but Gangbangers.
And Now that the Police have no power over anything Does it really matter.
The F-N libtards have fucked this city up BAD and the only way to make it better
is to bring the old police style back so these mother f-kers respect us!!!!!!!
Let’s just merge with county and have a metropolitan department. The bosses in CPD are incompetent and little bitches. I hope this city burns during the DNC
1/13/2024 09:27:00 PM
Nah
The 12th and 13th districts never truly came together. It has been two separate groups for over ten years now. It will take another five to seven years before every officer who originally merged is gone.
Long live Wood Street!
1/13/2024 01:30:00 PM
You can absolutely tell the people from the 13the District. Toxic Avenger type shit.
call it 8.5
build it at 55th and archer, couple of nice big open lots there since nobody can afford to do business in this city.
I have been retired a few years was hoping just to stay in the neighborhood, but it’s looking less likely not doing any health reasons, but doing to the extreme stress of all the crime rising all the illegal criminals being stuffed in here everywhere the Democrats ruined absolutely positively everything around them. Anybody can vote for any of them is total insanity!
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Back in the 70s there was no 24th District and the 20th District went from Montrose to Howard and they worked in the tiny station on Foster.
1/13/2024 10:55:00 AM
Actually, the 20th District extended south to Irving Park, west of Western Ave. before the mid-70s. That section then became part of the old 19th District where it remains today.
Hearing the old Warsaw restaurant property by hale park
Build another station in 8 , vacant land west of Cicero between 44th and 47ty street
CPD doesn’t need to add another district , close the third district, it’s outdated and falling apart.
Divide 3 up between 2,4,6&7th district .
Cut cone heads personal,family detail to 30 people , send the other 100 police officers to 8,16,&22.
SpankDaddy knows butts. The butt in question is not SpankDaddy worthy.
good old wood st. blues
Instead of increasing the 'brick and mortar' aspects of 008 & 016, along with additional staff to man the additional buildings etc., a more effective way would be to reduce the size of the beats, adding more as necessary to cover the large areas. Add more personnel to both districts to man the revised, additional beats. I know, I know, we're short staffed as it is but it makes more sense not to physically split a district on the map but to maintain (extra) sufficient manpower to address the issue of size and scope of those large districts in area.
Just my .02.
Stay Safe= #1 !
(CPD ret)
The only way that wood work is if they went back to doing reports on paper. Computerizing every thing complicated police work. Example if you are up on Kedzie and division you need to go all the way back to 1410 s Blue Island to finish a report or start your arrest. We should make more districts, build smaller buildings
and assign a Deputy to be in charge of Five Districts and let a captain run each district. The new districts that Daley built are not safe for policing in this day and age. The front desk should be surrounded by bullet proof glass and the lobbies should be much smaller. No need for a community room because caps has never worked and will never work. The whole thing should be scrapped. If people want to complain let them call the captain of the district and let him or her brain storm on how to fix the complaint. The caps program is total BS. The citizens never worked with the police to solve crimes and they never will. So CAPS is a complete waste of money and man power. Not to mention the governor and the mayor should get together and get rid of the stupid consent degree that the great one (Obama) forced Rahm to push through even after Sessions said no. The consent degree is nothing but a money grab by the democrats and a waist of man power because they have people with less than five years teaching these consent degree classes not to mention they have more than 400 officers assigned to teach these classes. We have 23 working districts that have less than 325 people in each district answering calls every day 24/7.
It has been talked about for at least 35 years, it is not going to happen! We have no manpower no 1 wants this job that has any brain activity, look at the new hires skillset not required! Look at management worst in decades, no copper respects them, they don't command respect nothing but the gold star boys and girls clown show!These alderidiots cannot even stop and stand up for the people as the dictators advance the illegals pouring in here, this is just another diversion tactic! Watched the news conference just for laughs nothing there move alone nothing to see!Look at archer ave for example it is hideous, empty store fronts galore, makes you wonder what are the aldergoofs doing to attract business? Nothing apparently, because we have no leadership period! They don't even know what is a woman, democratic party is the worst in history!they are all totally delusional! The old saying "look.laugh,leave!" applies!
Inside spots such as house mice, caps, dcos, admin, missions teams, academy, and hq spots are the main problem beats are unmanned.
These spots exist to cater supervisors who can't work midnights, beats, and patrol.
Nothing will happen. Old desk dollies have young desk dollies to take care of reports while they smoke, shop, gossip, then duck.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Now that 008 is becoming more Hispanic and black they will look to give them more services. When 008 was predominantly white city workers the political class didn’t care
1/13/2024 04:39:00 PM
Drove through the old hood, now there are 4 way stops every intersection, speed bumps, and dead ends. Wonder why all the changes.
Remapping districts is like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic; there's not enough coppers on the streets to staff districts now.
lets reassign CAPS Sgt.and crew to a 1st watch tactical team and require activity
remember they know where all the problems are, time to lock up some people
end the headquarters CAPS hiding spot and reassign to districts like 8,16,22
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