Thursday, December 29, 2005

They Need a Study Group for This?

We saw in the comments that someone might have seen ANOTHER extension for the Police exam? Anyone have a link? Now the city is offering a free four hour prep course for the police and fire exams?
  • The City Colleges of Chicago will provide, free of charge, a four-hour workshop designed to prepare adults to take the City of Chicago's Public Safety Exams soon to be given by the Chicago Police and Fire Departments. Workshops will be held on Saturday, January 21, 2006 and Saturday, January 28, 2006, from 9:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. Advance registration is required. The last registration date is Saturday, January 7, 2006. Online registration is available. Click on the link below for more information and to register online.
Anyone talk to Personnel lately? How many people are signing up? Based on this, it doesn't sound like many at all. Looks like we'll be selling our P-days and BFD's again because there isn't any manpower available for us to use them.


Anonymous Anonymous said...

the city should just give out the answers to applicants!!!

12/29/2005 03:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

there was a newspaper article in recent days wherein a city rep stated that there were "between 2 and 3 thousand" who signed up for the test. What a range, huh? and I find it hard to believe anyway. Anyone got the real numbers?

12/29/2005 04:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tis weel be da bestistest polices officurs klass evur

12/29/2005 04:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The econony must be good. No one wants the job

12/29/2005 05:06:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Detroit City here we come!!

12/29/2005 05:52:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Speakin' of applications, how's those Captains applications doin? Any interest there, either? What kind of preparation do they offer for that???

12/29/2005 05:57:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Das right I'm gunna take dat motha fuckn Po leece test and I gunna get to carry my shit on da legit. I jus hop dey overlook my rap sheet cauz I got a lot of possessions but fuck it they put dat shit on me. I gonna drive around in my hood pimpin my ride and sellin my crack right out da po leece ride!! And if that doesn't really happen.....I'll have another drink with Frank "the rat" Radke!! Way to go Mr. Richie "little big head" have set a new low for the police dept. ...Jagoff!

12/29/2005 06:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

12/29/2005, 05:57....hard to tell the amount of interest in the Capt.'s thing (deadline still open for apps). In the last one (year and a half ago?), of about 250 Lt's, city got about 75-80 apps (rough number). A few of those weren't eligible (not yet 2 yrs as a Lt); of the rest, only a small number actually had a chance (the clout thing); the rest were just going through the motions...

12/29/2005 06:52:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Got this right from a C.I. in personnel: Only 25% of the applicants were minorities. With 75% of the applicants white and Asian, the City was going to get totally fucked by the blacks and Hispanics when 90% of those who passed ended up being white. That is why they are extending the application period and ONLY recruiting in the black and Hispanic neighborhoods.

12/29/2005 06:55:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wait til the fire test is announced. It's been over ten years since the last one, I figure 15,000 plus applicants. Any opinions?

12/29/2005 07:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the city is, according to some reports, extending their recruting efforts into churches in certain communities. Are there incentives being offered in conjunction with those efforts?

12/29/2005 07:20:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fuck Firemen!!!!!

12/29/2005 07:30:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just hope they get enough people willing to take this job to replace all the guys retireing. we are so short of manpower that it is a joke. Short Captains, Lt's Sgt's, and Det's not to mention us shmucks that answer calls. senority doesn't get better unless someone is hired behind you. anyone have any Idea on how many promotions are coming up to Sgt and Det. I know there are classes for both going now but these dont even put a dent in the shortages. Or even a estimate on howmany recruits are in the academy

12/29/2005 07:52:00 PM  
Anonymous Malcolm X's liitle brother said...

What's the matter European-American brothers? Afraid a person of color shall sit next to you in the squad?

12/29/2005 08:08:00 PM  
Anonymous leftisthebest(again) said...

I concur. One should be more concerned about the caliber of the individual next to them in the squad than the color of skin.

12/29/2005 08:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Or even a estimate on howmany recruits are in the academy
12/29/2005 07:52:58 PM
There are approx 400-450 recruits in the Academy. First class graduates about late Jan/early Feb.

12/29/2005 08:17:00 PM  
Anonymous 35th Street said...

Some people “in the know” state that they have MORE THAN ENOUGH applications on file to give the exam. However DALEY found out that LESS than 25% are minorities so he demanded that the application deadline be extended.

During this “terrible situation” of having less than 25% minorities apply.. meeting were held for “brainstorming sessions” to figure out how to up the numbers of minorities. This is where the free test taking classes came from. They are really being promoted in ‘certain neighborhoods’ in the hope that at least the minorities will do well enough so that they can get hired.

12/29/2005 08:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your right Lefty and Malcolm, I do not care what color the person who sits in the squad car next to me is. It is the city and Minority groups who seem to think it is a big deal. If we back each other up it does not matter. The only people who are concerned about color are those of color and liberals.

12/29/2005 08:55:00 PM  
Anonymous uncle natto said...

re: POST 8:08

Dear narrow minded shithead, you area fucking asshole in the first punkass degree.

Of all the black cops who read this post today, it was you of course who peeked out from under your sheet to write your poison bullshit, you feeble minded punkass
bumper humper.

I've worked with "PEOPLE OF COLOR" for over thirty years. Im a person of color, the color is white. Its old hat dude, no one cares anymore. what you got, maybe less than three years on, you wanna work with whitey, no, no you dont, we have nothing in common and we never will. We just dont like each other. And is that bad? you maintain your identity and I retain mine its the way of the world, but then your so narrow minded you know nothing of the world, sad.

I wish you no ill will in fact I wish you love and happiness, and peace in your fucked up ghetto conditioned mind. Besides the city is looking for hispanics, you know, the people who will take the jobs we native americans wont take? Gee I wonder who is to blame for that? Once again peace to you, and good luck you hater.

I gotta go get MY sheet and hood out of the dryer.

Love, Uncle Natto Bimbo Ma Jimjim

12/29/2005 09:04:00 PM  
Blogger TrueBlue911 said...

This is the time to bring up Residency! The F.O.P. in Pittsburgh has taken up the fight and is wining! They also have a issue with getting people to take there test and are looking at the Residency req. CALUMET CITY -- Calumet City police officers can not be forced to live within city limits as a condition of their employment, a state appellate court ruled Wednesday.

In November 2000, an arbitrator issued a ruling against the residency requirement for police officers, saying they should be allowed to live within 20 miles of the city, within Illinois limits.The city requires all full-time employees to live within city limits.
The city appealed the decision, filing suit in Cook County Circuit Court over the matter. Cook County Circuit Court Judge Lester D. Foreman in April 2002 upheld the arbitrator's decision.

The City Council agreed to appeal Foreman's ruling, which led to the state appellate court's decision Wednesday saying that residency is a matter of collective bargaining.

Sgt. Kevin Glaser, who serves as president of the Calumet City Fraternal Order of Police Lodge No. 1, said Wednesday's ruling was what the union expected.

"We're pleased, of course, that the decision has finally come out, and we are looking forward to working with the city on bargaining our next contract now that the last stumbling block has been removed," Glaser said.

Our Union needs to step up and start acting on this issue, we have a golf committee,fishing committee, picnic committee, how about a Residency committee and put the wheels in motion.

12/29/2005 09:30:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

actually, eliminating the residency requirement just might gain enough applicants to solve the CPD's problem in attracting new employess. But, it might not solve the liberal/cultural/diversification approach, i.e., "we just have to have so many of this/that"....

12/29/2005 09:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, "trueblue911",

The problem is that special little section of state law that applies only to police officers in Chicago. We can't force arbitration on residency. The relevant portion of the Act states as follows:

"h) ... the arbitration panel shall base its findings, opinions and order upon the following factors, as applicable:...
(8) ...
(i) In the case of peace officers, the arbitration decision shall be limited to wages, hours, and conditions of employment... and shall not include the following: i) residency requirements in municipalities with a population of at least 1,000,000;..."

5 ILCS 315/14(h)(8)(i)

12/29/2005 10:07:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If a minority person takes the test and passes
What's the problem?????? Does it bother you so much that a person of color can qualify for the same job you have??????

12/29/2005 10:32:00 PM  
Anonymous 1300 w jackson said...

Nothing new in the hiring trends for this city. One line in the sun-timesm nothng in the trib, full page adds in the austin voice, the defender, and la raza/sol.
The case to end residence is clear. No one already in the private sector would take this job unless faced with a brutal hardship. No one right out of college can afford to live in this city, unless they already live with momy and daddy in the city.
This might explain why the majority of recruits at the academy right now have family already on the job.
Due to housing prices, cost of living, and poor schools, this job is not viable to most.
Many recruits that I have talked to, who moved into this city for the job, have as their primary reason "making themselves more marketable to surburban departments".

12/29/2005 10:38:00 PM  

From now on please use some decorum on this web site, use phrases like "go Fucketh thyself" then we wont look like the pack of racist pigs that we actually are. Thanketh thou.

12/29/2005 10:47:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It appears that alot of you guys don't know or don't want to know, how the rationale of race got started on this job. If OUR city fathers had not favored and fostered a systematic exclusion of qualified minorities "THERE would be no Quota set up now.......wonder how many of you guys moan and groan when Blacks and Hispanics,Asians and Women were denied employment with not so much of a whimper........and the taxpayers of the City of Chicago had to pick up that enormous bill....10 years after Judge P Marshall enacted this resolution the city of Chicago continued to drag their collective asses to whereas many of these Officers received up to 5 to 7 year back pay and tenure...again money taken out of the pockets of the taxpayers....But nobody screamed about the inequalties performed by the City and payed for by the citizenry of chicago. So if you have a problem with whats going on.....its the usual suspects as always our local politicians

12/29/2005 10:47:00 PM  
Anonymous 29 and a day next week said...

Dear Malcolm Little's little brother

Heres a news flash
Not all racists have white skin

12/29/2005 10:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


12/29/2005 11:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the inequities of race....where is it written, or should it be written, that race (or gender, ethnicity, etc., etc.), should determine the outcome, instead of the starting point.....

12/29/2005 11:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you seriously need a prep course for an exam any idiot who went to CPS can pass, this department is on a track downhill faster than ever!

12/29/2005 11:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is the city going out of its way to hire qualified white people? No, huh?

12/29/2005 11:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

and that raises questions: 1) do large cities need/recruit talent, regardless of race/gender; 2) do talented people go wherever they feel "wanted", i.e., city, state, federal gov....; 3) does a residency requirement either encourage or discourage applicants/employees; 4) what about the college requirement (60 hours)... good or bad?

12/29/2005 11:47:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Residency" is a rapidly sinking ship. Just look at the NYPD, LAPD and certainly the San Francisco PD. Aside from a handful of old-timers, no one can afford to have a home and raise a family in a decent area of the city on a cop's salary.

SFPD coppers live in the East Bay, up in San Rafael and down in San Mateo County. No one can afford to live in SF. I met one copper that commuted in from Sacramento for every tour.

Aside from the desperate, I'd question the sanity of any college graduate who would apply for the CPD. The CPD would be even lucky to get bright, motivated high school grads.

Many police opine that the Rodney King debacle was a defining moment in police recruiting. Any bright candidate would have to be extremely passionate about big-city policing or a masochist to seek out a CPD "career". While an apathetic general public is the least of our problems, everyone has video and cell phone cameras that can often cast a warped perception of alleged police impropriety among the Monday morning quarterbacks. Who needs this outrageous bullshit? We are forced to put up with politician whores, activists, the "politically correct" media, the morons that worship at the altar of "diversity" while totally ignoring the critical concept of excellence and professional pride. Worst of all are the cowardly. inept political hack, suckhole bosses, many of whom never even experienced being a grunt in the mean streets. They'd lag an innocent copper in a heartbeat to keep their job.

It's a depressing state of affairs, particularly in a city this corrupt. I'm pulling the pin before next summer. While I feel pain for the younger officers, the job has gone to hell in a handbasket. Perhaps, the pendulum will swing back where the young coppers can again take pride in being "Chicago's Finest". Sadly, it's such a trainwreck that it would take decades, if ever.

Otherwise, Happy New Year!

12/29/2005 11:55:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lt. Kennedy and Sgt. Hannigan of the TRU Unit will be conducting study groups for both the police entrance exam and all future promotional exams. Come and learn their techniques, which have been very successful in the past. Dates and locations to be announced. Guest speaker for the first session will be former Chief of Patrol James Maurer. For additional information, call the TRU unit.

12/30/2005 12:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'll drink to that!

Deputy Chief Frank Radke

12/30/2005 12:06:00 AM  
Blogger Rue St. Michel said...

From the 025 File:
More news on this Guy -- anyone want to comment?

12/30/2005 12:07:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Malcolm X's liitle brother said...

What's the matter European-American brothers? Afraid a person of color shall sit next to you in the squad?

12/29/2005 08:08:56 PM

I've worked with many people of darker color. I assume that's what you mean? All of us have color whether pink, brown, black, red, yellow.....whatever.

Judge a man/woman by their deeds not by the color of their skin. That means you too..bonehead. Go fuck yourself!

Oh yeah, and don't forget to have a happy new year, and stay away from the windows if you're not working!

12/30/2005 12:29:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

12/29/2005 11:55:48 PM:

Well said. I wish I could have got on 30 years ago.

12/30/2005 12:37:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello bitches! It's Mayor Daley here. Did someone say residency requirement. Are you bitches still belly aching about that. Are your pussies still hurting about that. I'm here to teach you math today (Actually Joyce and Degnan) and the math goes like this.
How much money does the city take in property tax's from the 016, 008 and 022nd districts? Subtract from that the amount that the city would lose if the residency requirement were lifted and all (or 70% of) the city workers moved out. Are you playing with your calculators? Now count all the M1's (M4's for the 016th dist) that would move in when the prices dropped and we once again had white flight and the property values dropped (in those named districts). Have you figured it out yet? Well let me give you a hint- "A SHIT LOAD OF MONEY". You have the best medical policy in the world (my little political hacks love abusing the medical). If you want the residency lifted you have to give something up. The medical is there for political-hack shit to abuse (some of them also abuse the IOD system too since the overwhelming majority of bosses are dip shit political hacks as well). Isn't it great. You get a great medical and I get to keep your dumb asses in the city. I love it. I love reading your whining shit. Please post more.

12/30/2005 02:42:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whats wrong with living in the City? I like it here and wouldn't move if I could. It's the greatest City in the world. We have great restraunts, theater, a GREAT lakefront, museums, art galleries,the greatest Police Department in the world, the list goes on and on. Why would I or anybody else want to leave? Try to get a good pizza or a plate of pasta in Bumfuck Iowa and see what you get. People all over the country, no,the world come here and comment about what a great and beautiful City this is and how they wished they could live here. No sir, I for one like it here and am not moving no matter what some court or arbitrator says. I take gret pride in telling people I'm from Chicago and even greater pride in telling them that I'm a Chicago Police Officer. I think that some of you need to sit down and ask yourselves some questions. Look within and you will see that while things here in Chicago are not perfect, they are very, very good. We have a great job in a great City. We have the HONOR of working beside some of the BEST people society has to offer. I for one consider myself to be luckey to have met and worked with some of the people I have. Great, great people and I thank the Lord each day that he allowed me to have done that. So, maybe instead of being so negative, some of you should be just a little more upbeat and consider what I'm saying. Remember, the grass is not always greener on the other side. As a matter of fact, it's usually brown when you cross the fence.

12/30/2005 07:57:00 AM  
Anonymous da spin doctors said...

The preceding public service announcement was brought to you through the courtesy of the City of Chicago.

s/Richard M. Daley
da mare

12/30/2005 08:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nothing wrong with "people of color" taking the Po leece test just that why should the City "Go out of their way to hire them or extend ANY special concessions to them JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE BLACK OR HISPANIC??? I'm White and they didn't help me out....why not??? because #1) I can pass the test and #2) I'm NOT lazy!!

12/30/2005 08:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From the 025 File:
More news on this Guy -- anyone want to comment?

12/30/2005 12:07:35 AM

Yeah, I'll comment. You are a spineless jagoff for posting that guys picture on the net and then inviting people to bash him. Be a man, for once in your pathetic life, and step to him in person. I don't have any idea who that guy is, but he couldn't possibly be any bigger of a pussy than someone who would do what you are doing!

12/30/2005 09:05:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No, that was not a public service announcement by da mare, just a comment by me, someone that appreciates what he has and where it came from. Think about it. I have an associate degree,no more. Yet because of my job I have a nice home on the northwest side of Chicago, my wife and I both have relatively new cars, I was able to put my three children through college, if I choose to go to college, the City will pay for most of it, if I feel a little under the weather I don't have to go in to work yet I still get paid, I take nice vactions every year and when I retire I will get 3/4's of my salary for doing nothing besides sitting around the house if thats what I choose to do. All courtesy of the City of Chicago. Whats not to like? Try and get those things in the private sector jobs. Are there problems in the Police Department or the City in general? Of course, but you can say that about the private sector as well.

12/30/2005 09:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree. That guy in the picture is a good guy and doesn't deserve the treatment you are attempting to give him.
Fuck off.

12/30/2005 09:53:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rue St. Michel said...

From the 025 File:
More news on this Guy -- anyone want to comment?

Yeah - I'll comment- He's a great guy & a good cop. If you want to know what his deal is- Don't be a coward-ask him...But then your a coward Bitch,& would not do that.

12/30/2005 09:59:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Take my medical, I wanna move.
P.S. Just cause you paid too much for your new addition in Mt.greendump don't mean we all have to stay! The city market does not depend on city workers anymore. I love the city too, so what. I'd like a better school system, for that i'll pay triple the taxes. Have a nice fucking day!

12/30/2005 10:19:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
From the 025 File:
More news on this Guy -- anyone want to comment?
12/30/2005 12:07:35 AM
Yeah, I'll comment. You are a spineless jagoff for posting that guys picture on the net and then inviting people to bash him. Be a man, for once in your pathetic life, and step to him in person. I don't have any idea who that guy is, but he couldn't possibly be any bigger of a pussy than someone who would do what you are doing!
12/30/2005 09:05:24 AM *******************************
I agree with above post. You got a problem with the Officer - confront him in person - don't be a P*ssy and post his photo on the WWWeb -
We need to stop outing people on this site. How would you feel if someone put your name and/or photo on this site just because they didn't like you.
Because I feel that you are a dogass, does not mean that everyone feels that you are a dogass.
Because I don't like you or the way you look does not mean that all feel the same.
Show a little respect for your fellow CPD!

12/30/2005 10:49:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why aren't Mark and the boys lobbying in Springfield to get the residency law overturned. Because he's Daley's asshat?

12/30/2005 12:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Sgt. Sauders said...

That guy is a GREAT guy and a good copper. I've been on a few jobs with him and I was glad he was there. He's the real deal.
Now, the next time you feel complelled to rip somebody, find a worthy subject. This one kind of backfired on you. Asshat!

12/30/2005 12:49:00 PM  
Anonymous Lt. Hanley said...

I concur with Sgt. Saunders.

12/30/2005 12:50:00 PM  
Blogger Rue St. Michel said...

Wow! Duly noted. The picture is modified. Thanks for the input. I always listen to well reasoned arguments.

12/30/2005 03:26:00 PM  
Anonymous TO RUE ST. MICHEL said...


12/30/2005 04:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


12/30/2005 05:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Some one needs to take the #'s of the race for the test takers, then the # that passed, then the #'s of the one that actually got hired... YOU KNOW DAMN WELL THERE IS GOING TO BE ANOTHER SCANDAL! Lets say, for fun, 80% of the people that passed the test were of the (insert race code here). Do you realy think that the academy class is going to reflect the same??? I'm willing to bet that the people that pass, and go into the academy will reflect the demographic makeup of the City! X% of the city is white, X% of the academy will be the same, Y% is black, Y% will be the same Z% is... you get the Idea. At this point, and from looking at our recent exams for promotion; how you score dont mean jack shit!

12/30/2005 08:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mt Greendump? You jagoffs from GARCIA RIDGE only wish you could live there w/o Julio and Juan too many as your neighbors

12/31/2005 03:26:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Seniority means nothing on this job now!

12/31/2005 11:12:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

Seniority means nothing on this job now!

12/31/2005 11:12:46 AM

Aside from pay scales, watch selection and furlough selection, when did it ever?

12/31/2005 11:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm sick of the chosen people saying how great this job is!

12/31/2005 11:43:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Malcolm X's liitle brother said...
What's the matter European-American brothers? Afraid a person of color shall sit next to you in the squad?

12/29/2005 08:08:56 PM


I remember in my academy class, all the black recruits sat with each other, but one!

12/31/2005 02:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Whats wrong with living in the City? I like it here and wouldn't move if I could. It's the greatest City in the world. We have great restraunts, theater, a GREAT lakefront, museums, art galleries

Dumbass, you can visit when ever you want! drive, Metra, or fly your ass in

12/31/2005 02:48:00 PM  
Anonymous numbersguy said...

Let's consider the %'s that were supplied by the C.I. 25% of applicants were minorities (I'm going to assume 'minority' means blacks and hispans).

Now, of the total applics how many do we think already live in Chgo? I'll say a vast majority live here. I have not heard anything that CPD is going to other cities/areas to recruit, have you?

Now lets consider the minorities that live here. How many are or were in gangs? How many are already felons? How many have been cracked by a cop? How many "claim" to have dope "put on them"? How many of them had a relative that "had a case put on them"? How many of them know some one that has been shot or killed by the police? How many will be considered a rat in their hood if they sign up?

Furthermore, what is the exact age at which time a young minority child starts to hate the police? You all know what I'm talking about. You happen make eye contact with the little child walking across the street with her mother. Mother is spitting on the ground, but the little girchild is staring at you with their big eyes, nervous about what you are going to do. You know they wants to wave at you, but is too shy. You pull the trigger and smile and hang your hand out the window to them. Their smile lights up like a christmas tree. Again, at what point do they start hating you?

Answer all those questions, then subtract 100% and you have your 25% minority applicants. Of course not all 25% will get their star and shield.

When I went in for the mass drug test, one minority candidate showed up completely bald, no head hair, no eybrows, no chest hair. They made him drop trow to get a sample.

12/31/2005 03:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thats interesting. I wonder what would happen if he refused to drop his pants. To me, that seems like an invasion of privacy and I'm wondering if they would need a warrant.

12/31/2005 04:09:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Look dummy, if he didn't drop his pants they would tell him to take a fucking walk.
Pull your head out of your ass.
I really hope you are not a police officer.

12/31/2005 05:42:00 PM  
Anonymous brad woods said...

Actually, if he would not drop his pants, they would clip his nails, as drugs can be detected in nail samples, too. It happens frequently when shaved applicants show up, claiming that they are swimmers.

12/31/2005 06:07:00 PM  

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