Thursday, March 23, 2006

FOP Board

From the comments section:
  • so why are the two sergeants still trustees for the fop? why hasn't this issue been raised? scc, we need to address this issue and address it quick. it is a joke that we have retirees and sergeants leading us. donohue should speak on this problem and ask the two sergeants to step down
As long time readers of this site know, the issue HAS been raised. Numerous times. Here AND elsewhere. And the answer remains the same - "because there is no rule against it." There is also precedent - a previous member made sergeant and didn't resign, and although he was not permitted to run again according to the bylaws, if it had been challenged, he would have won based on the National Bylaws. Besides, at least one national office holder is a boss (captain or higher) in his respective local agency.

As we understand it, the Department Rules & Regulations state that you can't be a member of two bargaining units, which the sergeants aren't - they are FRATERNAL members only, just like a retiree. The sergeants on the Board (and the retirees) all won an election. Members were free to choose who would and wouldn't represent them. Six retirees (the additional retiree was active when elected) and a number of people who happened to be eligible for sergeant won. Are they "leading us" as the anonymous commentator suggests? Well, all of the day-to-day operations and field reps are current bargaining members. The sergeants and retirees can't vote on active issues and can't be part of negotiating a labor contract so they aren't really "leading" anyone. Is it efficient to have a full third of the Board unable to vote on labor issues and other concerns? Probably not.

The solution? Probably a separate lodge for Sergeants (and above) and a ceiling on the number of retiree representatives (3 tops). Is it going to happen? It'd take a new bylaw at the very least.


Anonymous Anonymous said...

So what do have against Sgts?

3/23/2006 11:50:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A separate lodge for the Sgts? Forget it. They can’t even get anyone to run for the PBPA “bargaining unit”. They sure ain’t going to organize a fraternal sect so they can walk around in golf shirts that say “FOP”; drink beer at events and talk about police shit.

3/23/2006 11:57:00 AM  
Anonymous said...

On a side issue:

Today I sent yet a second fax to Mayor Daley concerning this sign issue.

I asked him why I have not heard from him let alone the fact thet he and anyone else is taking a stand for you.

Second, I asked if it's true that Officer Alphonsus Gilhooly was detailed to protect his home. An officer who would have thrown his life on the line to protect the Daley family. Which is reason why he is safe and sound today had anything happened. (Thank you to the person who posted this on Crimefile's blog)

In addition, I also told him if he's not willing to take a stand, then he needs to remove his name and comments from the CPD Memorial let alone we might as well bulldoze the park being built. Why bother?

Finally, if this is not resolved, then I will establish an online petition as I told him and by the time we get everyone to sign will need a forklift to deliver it to him. We also need to have everyone get together and rally: officers and civilians.

You know, I relly feel bad that not one person has taken a stand for you. Alderman keep passing the buck, our Mayor evading the topic, and even Sen. Obama, who I thought would be raging mad that a group who was so violent and killed our officers, would be honored. Not a role model at all for our African American community.

It would be nice if someone had a spine. I know, because I've had to put my ass on the line plenty of times for the memorial.

Just to let you know, there is someone who cares about you out here, and wants to help.

I'm very sorry you have to go through this but we need to keep fighting.

3/23/2006 12:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just in: Daley appoints Fire Commissioner Cortez Trotter to a new post as Chicago's Chief Emergency Officer. He will even be in charge of the police if/when the need arises. I wonder how fat Phil feels about this move?

3/23/2006 12:27:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Trotter "GOD" help the police....this is a political hack of political hack....power hungry, egotistical,undeserving, unqualified...light candles and pray

3/23/2006 01:02:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

shhhhhhhhhhh..........studying for the sergeants test on saturday. its been nice and peaceful lately on the scc website without those god awful remarks on a- 2 gun team, seiser etc.

3/23/2006 01:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

EEEEE GOD , now don't encourage anyone now!!!!!

3/23/2006 01:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


3/23/2006 01:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


3/23/2006 01:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

lol......just when you think it was all quiet....the kids come home from school.

3/23/2006 01:30:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


3/23/2006 01:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

who's the commander in 005

3/23/2006 01:34:00 PM  
Blogger leftisthebest said...

Let's all attend the next FOP meeting and DEMAND the board fulfill its duty and have these two sergeants resign their posts.

I'll even purchase the first beer for SCC (I'd call you M, but the homophobes here will say something) and discuss a bit of the Bush agenda. I'd be not to hard to know, seeing as I'd be the only one there condemning him.

3/23/2006 02:07:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree. We should demand that these sgts. resign their positions and fill the spots with two full members.

3/23/2006 02:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey guys and gals,
Topic Oil and Vinegar Sgt's. and P.O. issue. If your serious about Sgt's. not holding brd. seats you will have to ralley up more than one district, unit and then some.

What SCC said about voting rights
is on target. Although I feel the real issue may be fear of Mgmt's. influence over blues, keep in mind you do not have to have voting rights in order to sway.

What I heard at that meeting was, Mgmt. is the reason we have problems. Again blending the two may very well not mix, not in the long run anyway. Blues already feel weaken and this continues to frustrate them.

3/23/2006 02:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Your not alone, You have taken on a grand task to your calling. You will have to continue moving forward April is around the corner.

3/23/2006 02:42:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I dont care about the sgts. Lets deal with me being dead at 60. The city is killing us with this work schedule. The average chicago cop dies 12 to 20 years before anyone else. The 6 days worked in a row are killing us, proven by new studies...Who cares about these sgts, I want to live longer. Who's the winner here the city as usual. Less pensions to pay...

3/23/2006 02:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Please review the FOP website and hit Constitution.

You will see a PDF copy that states:



An amendment in 2000 was passed For Bylaws Article 1 Section 3 regarding membership.

Ask the recording secretary FOP why the wording of the amendment has not been added to Bylaws Article 1 Section 3.

The amendment restricted membership in any other bargaining unit (ie the Sgts. PBPA)

I suggest it has not been added because it does not serve the pupose please "due dilligence" should be required. You attempt in other areas of your very informative site but in the area of FOP dealings, I think you are a victim to the party line.

Just check it out...


3/23/2006 02:59:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

12:25:17 PM

May God bless you for fighting the good fight.


3/23/2006 03:11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


3/23/2006 03:11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree, again the city will use the arguement we took you off of rotation (my wise crack). I have seen the city attorney's operate first hand at various venue's. Per our contract, the city likes to remind us we hold exclusive right to set the schedules and labor law backs us.

Using medical issue is tricky, the city will venture into dark places. This is a contract issue, all issue's affecting your working condition's are important.

That being said a strong Fraternal aka union membership and contract is what matters for everyone's well being in the long run.

3/23/2006 03:14:00 PM  
Anonymous cortez trotter - city emergency king said...

I am now the king, the god, the almighty of any City of Chicago Emergency.

May I say that if a true terrorist attack happened, we be screwed.

We are not prepared, dont have the proper equipment and supplies and lack any real knowledge on how to handle anything bigger than Taste of Chicago.

If worse comes to worse I will appoint the Gangster Disciples and Vice Lords to take control of security of the City if need be.

Yours Truly
The Honorable Cortez Trotter
City of Chicago Emergency King

3/23/2006 03:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Afull ban on Assault weapons in going to be pushed for this year in Illinois. Why do the crimes of a few have to disarm the many? If you wish to disarm someone, disarm the potential offender(s) Only 6% of the murders were committed by whites last year. Gee, who do you think has areal problem with guns????

3/23/2006 03:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Where it matters for the bosses, is when you round that corner and salute, media thinks so also. Do not run off to breakfast so fast at the end of the march.

We know some feel St Jude is used by exempts. The more you have the better I look, so they stay away.

We know we march for our fallen. So they will come around that corner! Were carrying them around that corner that's why were there!

3/23/2006 03:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

First that have to actually utilize the White Paper instructing the city on how to protect the city. OEMC/OMC is not a secure facility not according to White Paper instructions.

We are fucked. The bankers on the other hand are not under Chicago First, their notified first and they get out with all records first.

3/23/2006 03:41:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not from FOP meeting.

Pension fund ratios decline continues. The ongoing declines in the funded ratios of the Fire and Police Pension Funds continue to be a serious cause.Far below levels considered financially healthy.

3/23/2006 04:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just In' Cortez Trotter orders a fleet of Black Hummers for his Emergency Team. Each H1 Diesel Hummer will be fully equipped with the latest lights sirens radios and whatever else Cortez can think of.
Sorry Phil, the mayor does not trust you to be supreme head of the city's emergency team.
I wonder what Trotters uniform will look like?
Edie Amin, Ike, Castro, or Frasier Thomas!
Trotter did not do much as Fire Commissioner and da mayor needs to find him a new spot.
If this don't work, maybe he will take Strogers spot. Only time will tell.

3/23/2006 04:08:00 PM  
Anonymous street copper said...

3:37 PM

You will find a response to your post under the thread entitled "Another Lawsuit to be Settled" at 4:06 pm

3/23/2006 04:12:00 PM  
Anonymous said...


Has anyone here ever established an online petition site?

I found one:

If you all can help me out, then I will set this up asap and get it rolling, also emailing SCC to get it posted on here, my forum, and everywhere else I can spread the word.

Let's get this rolling...

3/23/2006 04:13:00 PM  
Anonymous said...

Proper link:

3/23/2006 04:14:00 PM  
Anonymous completely off topic, but... said...,2933,188463,00.html

Check the above link for proof that Scientologoists are completely insane!

3/23/2006 04:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Stop trying to change the subject, "boss".

3/23/2006 04:43:00 PM  
Anonymous what are the odds? said...

Any coincidence that BOTH FOP Trustees promoted to sergeant were assigned to 005 on days?

Seems like these two have their own new set of problems aside from the pressure to step down.

Shame on the city for being petty and punishing them.

3/23/2006 04:52:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We may at times get technical and I for one, enjoyed your wit. Your response was funny.
Signed Oil/Vinegar & St Jude.

3/23/2006 04:57:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That is a shame, as we cannot fault the Sgt's. who want to remain in a position on the union, after all I have heard more than one Sgt. state their preference to be affiliated with a stronger union.

Question do police feel that they actually have a true union and a strong voice?

Another question might be, why do the sgt's. really want to be part of FOP? Either way they are in hot seats.

3/23/2006 05:07:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The solution to the sgt's on the FOP Board.

How may times has the leadership of FOP state:

It is the members union!

Well then

Very Simply let the members decide!

Hey it sounds kind of "democratic"

such a "radical" concept.

but then again Markie and the boys know what is "best" for us!

He has to do something for $175,000+ a year!!!

3/23/2006 05:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I understand your point and it is valid. Why at this late date any of us are waiting for a response from the so called higher up's/aka leadership is beyond me. Silence is not always Golden.

Officer's have spoke of rally's, threads discuss petitions, house of worship. Many officer's follow up the march with going to houses of worship.

Flood of BLUE, United we stand divided we fall. This is the crux should our fallen not be carried during St Jude? We are not there for the damn Exempts unless their part of our fallen.

If for some reason one is unable to march or they choose a different path of honor, let us remember not to chastise them but respect them. This I think would honor our fallen.

Where is our union plan?

3/23/2006 05:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Northside said...

Just checked my mail. I found a brochure from the 43rd Ward Regular Democratic Organization. Photos of politicians who remain silent about the obscene proposal to name a street "Chairman Fred Hampton Way" were included. En route for shopping, I stopped by the bsmt. office of Peg Roth, 43rd Ward Committeewoman, 1545 N. Wells St.

As I stated: "Ms. Roth, nothing personal, but I don't ever want to receive any more mailings from any Democrats." She replied "I don't want to see you again." I will honor her request. Just keep your bullshit out of my mailbox.

On Nov. 7th, I urge all to vote for
ANTHONY J. "TONY" PERAICA for President of the Crook County Board.

3/23/2006 05:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lard Ass Deneen and Half Wit Houser arent going to anything about the Sgts, Dog Ass Donahue isnt any better.

3/23/2006 05:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


That is the problem, and officer's you better wake up. It will not take 1-5 outspoken it will take the lot of you. Ask any unit rep. when they position themselves to represent you, where are you? This it not nitpicking it is a reality check.

I for one am Union like yourself. All I ask for and have the right to expect is a strong one. Again, mass support on issue's are needed. The union knows this. Why are we lazy if we actually want action and change?

3/23/2006 05:41:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

way to go, northside!

3/23/2006 05:50:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Officer's are you aware of how much power you actually hold? Look at the simple math. You do not have to accept anything weak but you continue to vote straight tickets. What does it take to run as a union president?

Think, if your not happy with the current board what will you do about it. It is long overdo that you collectively take back your position of power. Not in stops and starts. If your not happy with any of your representation remove them when you have the opportunity.

Unfortunately what happens at any election is I like you, I don't like you on a personal basis. Skip this and go to what have you done for the membership.

Continue to act on emotions and not logic and you end of with endless problems. That is where most of you are currently at.

3/23/2006 05:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Part 2 of Sergeants Test is exactly 12 weeks after Part 1.

3/23/2006 05:57:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Will the new wave of Sgt's. go back to the days of supporting the men and women who work for them?

3/23/2006 06:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Now she is a lame duck, as she is required by law to support everyone in her ward. What a joke all the pol's in Chicago have become.

Do a phone-a-thon on her ass! Guaranteed you will get results. Whether or not you voted for her, shit does not have to work her way!

3/23/2006 06:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

TO: 06:04:03

Your question implies that current sergeants do nothing to support the officers that work for them. I've been a sergeant for many, many years and have NEVER seen another supervisor fail to assist an officer in need. And by "in need", I mean a fixing what could be a fucked up situation.

The hostility displayed towards supervisors on this board is not only unbelievable, but unjust.

You may call me a whiner, but it gets old hearing how bad we are when all we do is our best to help fellow officers.

3/23/2006 06:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What you need is media, do any of you have contacts. Make it clear at ST Jude. you are not there for the Mayor, or exempts but in spite of them.

Death March for the fallen. There is a salute right at the end to honor the GRANDSTAND, use it. What are they going to do nail every officer in the march, and for what? Salute the families on the side lines your supporters. Have flags in those area's. Every step of the way.

Just stay one step ahead of DA BOSS 11 and his required bidders of seat. Where is the union ideas?

3/23/2006 06:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Come on boss, no one used the word all. Glad your demonstrating that good bosses are out there.

Assist by passing the official baton. That is what it's all about.

3/23/2006 06:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Refuse to condemn Hampton & Panthers = Refusal to attend St. Jude (except for the suckholes).

3/23/2006 06:35:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I find it hard to beleive you sgt. have never seen another sgt. screw over a po one way or another. Are we on the same job? Not a personal attack on you. You did use the word NEVER.

Well Sgt's. are more then welcome to blog, right? Maybe we need to hear from them as well. Always two sides to the story.

3/23/2006 06:35:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And your point is? If your even the police. Thought so....

3/23/2006 06:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Now Sgt. the word assist can be utilized in many formats, depending upon the nature of the incident and the action taken. I have seen many officer's assisted and not to their benefit.

3/23/2006 06:40:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


The question did not imply. It was simply a question. No offense intended.

3/23/2006 06:43:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I cannot believe you would boycott St.jude because of bosses or hampton its not about them, or the mayor. its about the P.O.'s that have died on this job. Its about honoring them and their families. Just because you are too fat to fit in your blues and too lazy to drive downtown. don't make up BS excuses. You make me sick!

3/23/2006 07:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

oh, im sorry did some evil sgt actually tell you to do your job when you tried to blow some job off. be serious we all blow off some things...sometimes you get caught. deal, you earn enough. as far as sgts on the fop, i can understand that upsetting some but what the fop gets shoved down their throats from the city so do the sgts

3/23/2006 07:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Phil Collins said...

On one side of the coin.....
If Hallinan and Harje have this hard-on for the Sgt's on the FOP board let them do the leg work to get them ousted. This means drafting the by-law and presenting it at the apporpriate time. Have them visit the districts and address the troops. Who knows it just might pass.

On the other side of the coin.....
I'm completely annoyed at their bitching and constant anonymous posting here. IF they acted as adults, they'd post their well thought out arguements along with their names.

I did just that on the old Second City site and had my voice heard. I was trying to dump the FOP at the time in favor of a new bargaining unit. I had fans as well as detractors but none the less I made well thought out argeuments and stood my ground.

Bitching, pissing and moaning only goes so far Wayne and Shaun. Do something about it if you feel so angry about it. Changing the situation is completely in your hands.

Phil Collins
The former PBPA rabble rouser

3/23/2006 07:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Try your brainwashing elsewhere, "boss". Your arrogance insults our intelligence.

Your comment is disingenuous and hollow.

It's ALL about the gross lack of respect of Daley and the brass for the ultimate sacrifices of John Gilhooly and Frank Rappaport!

Your cowardice leaves us with no option. Is that clear?

3/23/2006 07:15:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If there was any justice in this city, there would be a bounty on polticians and police brass.

You couldn't put together such sorry ass pieces of shit!

3/23/2006 07:20:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Right now we need to stick together, instead of bickering.

Buck it up and let's show them what we're made of.

3/23/2006 07:22:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What do you have in mind, 7:22?

Should the rank and file join hands with these gold-braided pussies and sing "Kumbaya"?

Keep it real!

3/23/2006 07:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to 715
I am not a boss..all I am saying there are plenty of things we could boycott, not St. Judes. God forbid you, I or any P.O. on this job dies. how would your wife/kids feel if only a few coppers showed up? seems pretty shitty to me.

3/23/2006 07:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

phil collins

The current Constitution and By laws already prevent sgts for not only running for election.

The fact that the sgts have an exclusive bargaining agent that represents them excludes sgt's from remaining on the board once they are promoted.

Why pay sgts $400.00 a month to represent PO's and Dets when they cannot consider contract matters.

The same can be said for retirees BUT they do not have a union representing them like the Sgts have PBPA.

If Donahue and crew want sgts on the board then WHY don't they propose a amendment and allow the membership to vote!

You know the answer to that.

The membership would say NO! to sgts on the board.

Is it not ironic that the people who bitch about anonymous posts feel above it all when they sign off



3/23/2006 07:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree, never boycott St. Jude's. That march is not, never will be about the mayor, politicians, or the police brass. It's about paying respect/homage to deceased officers and their families.

3/23/2006 07:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Phil Collins

Anonymous is there for a good reason. Word to the rank and file through-out this thread it has been about coming together, regardless if it has to do with Sgt's. on the FOP, along with FOP leadership, weak management, and importantly St. Jude.

Do not assume Wayne and Shaun, that's part of the problem finger pointing without direction. That statement is not an attack on them.
Nor is it against you phil.

Yes, we have problems and frustrations, no they will not go away overnight. Can we fix them yes, but only as a unit brothers and sisters.

For a change be BLUE and that sits for each and everyone of us. Stand shoulder to shoulder. Whether we like it or not at one time or another bosses wore blue.

Let us keep in mind at least for one very important day, at ST JUDE WE REMEMBER WE ARE ALL BLUE AND UNITED. Decide your direction we do not have to leave feeling bad. We are proud and at that turn you will shine.

Lets put our vents on hold, who knows it may show the way and give up a fresh start.

3/23/2006 07:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The city's strategy has always been to divide and conquer. Years ago, when I was a sergeant, our association always thought we were going to be Lodge 7-A of the F.O.P.

We were going to share office space and everything else and be a united front.

Make the politicians FEAR US!
When it came time to choose, somebody somehow got to the lodge leadership and what they had to offer the sergeants, lieutenants and captains was an insulting whole lot of nothing.

No rights, no representations, it was a bitter pill. The city succeeded in separating the ranks to keep us weak. Then John Deneen has the gall to ask for our support. We laughed him out of the room.

As long as the city can separate up we will be weak.

3/23/2006 07:58:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


You are so right. We know how this happens, yet we keep making the same mistakes. The city is crafty and people are weak. It is a human flaw which does not always benefit us. We need to start really looking at one another, and cease the city's bidding. I guess we need a secret handshake with expanding options.

3/23/2006 08:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Daley and the brass is the elephant, strike that...they are the panther in the living room.

Either they show some cojones or fuck 'em!

To parade in front of those rotten cocksuckers is tantamount to urinating on the graves of John Gilhooly and Frank Rappaport.

3/23/2006 08:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

change the march line up, change the format just look damn good doing it. Keep um confused every step of the way, just let the true blues know.

3/23/2006 08:44:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bottom line unless collectively many of you come together, there will be a march on the day specified. Again for those that change the date, or those who choose not to go and least to all of you that do go should have a plan. Looks like there is already a 3 part division. PLAN

There is passionate division already over the issue.

3/23/2006 08:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Has anyone spoke with their family members if available? Is anyone planning too? PLAN

3/23/2006 09:00:00 PM  
Anonymous ald. madeline haithcock said...

"...I don't want to cause dissension among our police officers. If that's going to cause dissension...then I won't put up the sign."

Chicago Sun-Times, February 28, 2006.

3/23/2006 09:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

Refuse to condemn Hampton & Panthers = Refusal to attend St. Jude (except for the suckholes).

3/23/2006 06:35:23 PM

Equating St. Jude to anything else is chickenshit. The two don't mix. No matter what else is going on politically, WE should attend St. Jude to honor our fallen comrades. You Sir/Madam, are an ass to talk that kind of shit! go fuck yourself!

3/23/2006 09:05:00 PM  
Anonymous outraged copper said...

Would a fuckin' riot qualify as "dissension" among our police officers, Ald. Haithcock?

3/23/2006 09:07:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Like it or not, when you get promoted your bargaining unit changes. Department rules prohibit being a member of two BARGAINING units. You can be a fraternal member of FOP once promoted, but not a BARGAINING unit member.

Any board member who fails to resign his position upon promotion is an asshole. You're doing a disserve to the men and women of the FOP and the PB&PA. To the FOP because you can no longer vote on issues related to collective bargaining. To the PB&PA because you're now a supervisor and if you don't take part, our voice weakens.

I'm a supervisor and a fraternal member of the FOP. I wish we never joined PB&PA, but that's a moot point. Like it or not, they are my collective bargaining unit and deserve my support.

Likewise, the new sergeants owe it to themselves and to the FOP to resign. Anything else is a disservice to all. Hopefully they'll see the light. They can switch to fraternal membership and still be FOP, but they need to resign their board positions now.

3/23/2006 09:09:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Yes suh, "boss". Whatever you say, suh!


3/23/2006 09:11:00 PM  
Blogger SCC said...

Article I Section 3. No member shall be simultaneously a member of Chicago Lodge No. 7 and any other Subordinate Lodge.

Are you claiming this language is innaccurate Wayne? Because PBPA is not a subordinate lodge as far as we can tell. We're not sure what you are arguing here. Please specify.

3/23/2006 09:15:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

off topic for a bit....any truth to a Lt's list coming out tomorrow?...can anyone post it?

3/23/2006 09:22:00 PM  
Anonymous Phil Collins said...

The arguements that Wayne posted do have validity.I can honestly say I agree with some of them. I made these exact same arguements when myself and several others pushed for decertification of the FOP. Needless to say the issues were never fully addressed nor answered.

Where do you lay the blame? Donohue? Nolan? Blame them all for what it's worth. Hell, blame me for pushing my anti-Nolan platform and getting Donohue elected. Laying blame doesn't solve a problem. Finding and implementing effective problem solving measures does.

The by-laws and constitution are where the problems lie. Change those and you will have a positive and effective change on the FOP. The hardest part of changing those documents is getting on the soapbox and giving your postions while letting folks know who you are!

Whats wrong with putting your name on something you believe in? Anyone can anonymously stir the pot but standing up and telling folks who you are, gives your arguement more validity. Anonymous postings just bring more discredit to the arguement you're trying to bring to the light. I paid dearly for standing up and telling folks what I wanted to do but I also benefitted from that experience. Just remember they can do anything they want to you. There are 2 things they can never do. They can't eat you and they can't take away your birthday.

On a personal note, I played in a pipeband for a few years honoring our fallen brothers and sisters. It's something I cherish and will hold dear to my heart until I die. Funerals and memorials are for the living. They remind us of those who have gone before us and the sacrifices they and their families have made. Only a fool would forget those who have gone before him.

See you at St. Judes.

3/23/2006 09:27:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to 5:38 if you are going to slam someone spell it right and I dont believe he has anything to do with the Union anymore. Besides why do you think you get paid so well , because the Mayor loves you so much . Come on get real. Im sure you voted in every election ever held with the FOP.

3/23/2006 09:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...


Yes suh, "boss". Whatever you say, suh!


3/23/2006 09:11:36 PM

St. Jude is not about who's the most popular boss, it's about our fallen comrades, PERIOD! You still don't get it.

Do me a favor, don't go to St. Jude....ever again! If I died in the line of duty, I wouldn't want anyone with a mindset like yours there anyway.

3/23/2006 09:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Best thing to do at St. Judes: As we pass the reviewing stand, everyone put their right hand over their heart.

This would show solidarity and no way could anyone give you shit over it. Truth and honor would win out.

Anyone have a comment on that?

3/23/2006 09:39:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


I have my reasons in remaining anonymous. Have I spoken out, yes. Have I paid the price, yes. Have I learned something, yes. Do I know how dirty the dept. can get, yes. If you refer to stirring the pot as informing my brothers and sisters we need to unit, then so be it. Just the same it is the truth and the only way for it to be heard is to ring the bell.

Trust this I'm no coward.

3/23/2006 09:40:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Hand over the heart, black bands on stars, do not look at the stand but look the opposite way at the families who are waving you on. Again can fault be placed on all officers because they are showing respect to their supporters, and to the families of fallen on the sidelines.

3/23/2006 09:46:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For those of who choose to trash the memories of our fallen you need to be ignored, no response.

We are carrying our fallen, you see they are not here to walk the march themselves. This is not a parade. It is a death march with honor, it is every officers opportunity to help us lift them up high, not to drag them.

They are marching with us end of story!

3/23/2006 09:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Phil Collins said...


I understand your feelings but instead of hijacking a thread , maybe just direct folks to another blog that represents your views. I may disagree with you on not posting your name, but I'll never call you a coward. I've been there myself and know exactly how you feel. I keep waiting for the guy at the "random" drug testing unit to pop in and look over my shoulder whenever I pee at 35th st.

3/23/2006 10:00:00 PM  
Anonymous RESURRECTIONMARY said...

Tonight on the news they state that they are still counting votes.

Votes... yes, yes...

They must be counting the absentee ballots from the residents at Resurrection Cemetary.

3/23/2006 10:11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Now I'm confused, as I thought this was a blog pop in pop out, respond to others. The blog changed direction as it always does. If I have irriated other's I will consider ceasing blogging on which topic? I was attempting to keep up with the flow not bump others. Did that happen, really I'm confused now.

What is it 12 random drug tests a yr. they can order. Now you see were both off the topic.

3/23/2006 10:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just an idea,

Boycott St. Jude. BUT listen BUT

have a "rally" in grant park to honor our fallen instead of the March.

our gold star famalies must be on the anti-exempt bandwagon.

hire a professional speaker / stage so on. In our blues.

let the exempts stand in there review stand and salute the suck holes that HAVE to go

FOP great use of my union dues !

3/23/2006 10:44:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm sorry but the whole St. Judes issue seems simple to me. If your serious about doing something to honor the families without having to disgust yourself by seeing the dirt bag exempts then just organize another event and don't invite the exempts. It's that simple. Have a gathering where an officer was killed. A park. whatever. That is the only way to do it. This issue with the exempts is nothing new. They have always been royal dickheads, mobsters, political hacks with very few exceptions. St Judes does not have to be the end all be all for honoring our fallen.

3/23/2006 10:50:00 PM  
Anonymous Phil Collins said...

Confusimication is not what I wanted.
Redirects to other sites break the monotony of some of these threads. Posting anonymous manifestos regarding the union or politics in a thread about sports is a bit lame if you ask me.Thats part of my previous point. If you want to throw a curve into a thread, post a link to a site that has your views. Think about it like fishing. Cast your bait, then reel them into your own blog.
Have I unconfusimicated you yet?

Five "exams" in two months was tolerable.
The threatening phone calls to my wife at her office is what I detested the most.

3/23/2006 10:52:00 PM  
Anonymous northside said...

At lunch one evening with two of my very best guys, one stated that he would never want our rat fuck district commander at his funeral.
Just small talk over a pizza.

Little did I realize that on the very next evening, this outstanding officer would emit his death rattle in my arms as his murdered partner lay at our side.

How dare you proselytize about the holier-than-thou exempt cowards and their annual display of hypocrisy. How dare you, you filthy piece of shit!

The rat fuck commander attended both of the wakes and the funerals. Within a week after the grief counselors departed from our roll calls, it was harassment as usual for that gold-braided political hack.

The time has already passed for the paralyzed Daley and the brass to come to the defense of John Gilhooly and Frank Rappaport.

Collectively, the command staff of the Chicago Police Department is an absolute disgrace to the memories of our fallen comrades.
All your predictable bullshit about the St. Jude's March is as transparent as your cowardice in failing to defend the sacred honor of our fallen comrades.

3/23/2006 11:15:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

confused said. ahhh but one most first be able to crawl before they can walk. Now there have been those that went right into walking. Experience is just that experience.

Like I said I went with the flow we started on the bylaw issue, other's moved to St Jude.

I agree with you on some points, but if someone asks a question on an unrelated post and I happen to be on line and can answer the unanswered question, why not? Yes we like to keep focus, but this blog does not always allow it. You see it over and over.

You used sports as analogy, good angle. Apparently officers wanted to go in furtherance on ST JUDE. Call it passion. I respect your irritation with anonymous, knowing that does not change choices. Names are for the mike on the FOP floor for the purpose of recording minutes and attempting to take action. I was there the night everyone walked out on Nolan, I was there during pension issue. I have been present for other issues when officers were not aware who was working behind the scene helping them.

I went with the flow phil, do not kill the messenger.

3/23/2006 11:59:00 PM  
Anonymous patrolman for life said...

Northside, you have some deep anger issues. Good thing you are retired!

I still think it's ridiculous that many of you are trying to use the names of two LONG dead coppers, dead longer than many of the posters here have been alive ( Northside and a few others excepted ), to promote YOUR own political agenda.

Don't give me that shit that you are "honoring them". BULLSHIT! You are using two dead police officers to further your own cause. Two dead police officers who most of you NEVER EVEN HEARD OF OR GAVE A SHIT ABOUT until this sign nonsense same up! Now, all of the sudden, they are your heros? Nigga please!

If a politician or boss ( one in the same? ) used a dead police man's name to further his cause, how would you all react? You'd be livid, right? But it's A-OK for you all to piss on the St. Jude's parade? Go ahead! SHow hoe much you care! Don;t show up! You piss on the memory of every fallen officer, you little know it all's!

I don't mean any disrespect to any officer killed, or even mildly wounded while doing this job, but for god's sake, get off your high horses already! Constatnly standing behind the names of Gilhoolly and Rappaport and rallying rings about as sincere as the shitheads who cry crocodile tears in the street after homie catches a bullet on the corner.

I know I'm going to catch hell for saying it, but everyone of you knows I speak the truth!

I'm not a boss, just a lowly District P.O.! I have been for just shy of 20, and will be for roughly 10 more. I love what I do, and can't understand the crying I see here. I just don't get it.

3/24/2006 12:02:00 AM  
Anonymous northside said...

Are you implying that I have a political agenda? Praytell, do explain. I don't have a political bone in my body--never did. I loathe Chicago-style politics and have never sought out "clout". My performance spoke for itself and I have no regrets.

I went to Frank Rappaport's service at the synagogue at 69th & Stony. I also attended John Gilhooly's wake. Are you suggesting that their murders in 1969 are somehow irrelevant today?

I have very strong and passionate concerns about this situation. If you had walked in my shoes, so would you.

What's your point? If you (or anyone else) would prefer to discuss this privately, eMail me at:

Out of respect for some of the finest officers I have ever worked with, I would appreciate it if you didn't use the last phrase in your third paragraph.

So you're "just a lowly district P.O." If you're being truthful, guys like you are the very backbone of the CPD. A disproportionate number of our slain comrades were assigned to district patrol. However, I don't believe you. My visceral skepticism and instincts suggest that you may well be a boss.

You need not concern yourself about what you describe as my "deep anger issues." I learned quite a while back on the art of isolating therapeutic and justifiable outrage from enjoying my retirement to the fullest.

In any event, both of us are entitled to our disparate opinions.

3/24/2006 12:53:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Could you at least verify that you are the police; WHat's the UCR code 0460?

3/24/2006 12:55:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Could you verify the ucr code 0486

3/24/2006 12:56:00 AM  
Anonymous northside said...

UCR Code 0486: I have no idea. And your point is...

3/24/2006 01:06:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Response at 1216 under Moot Point.

3/24/2006 01:07:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Patrolman For Life"
You are a coward. How can you say what you just did to another p.o.?
Are you so insensed by this job that only you got it right, and everyone else is messed up?
God forbid if you have a wife and kids, because if you do I'm pretty sure it's all fucked up in that home of your's.
I worked the west side of this city for a LONG time, TOO long, and I know exactly what this job does indirectly to policeman.
The patrolman takes ALL the brunt of this department, both good and bad, but for you to water down ANY policeman's tragic experiance(s), and then mock it? You sir need alot of help.
In the back of my mind I thought you don't belong here, you aren't with us. But I realized why you said your opinion, go get some help, there are people there for you. Your not the only one STUCK in this shitty patrol position.
Northside, keep fanning our fire. Were listening, and loving it!
God bless the patrolman.

3/24/2006 01:21:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

12:02 aint got a clue!

3/24/2006 01:59:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You got the issues pal. Hell, I'm a patrolman for life, and you are way off! Way way off. You can't even state his political agenda's.
Please the thread's open, what's his political agenda?

3/24/2006 02:07:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


You got a challenge step forward. Patrolman for life made valid points.

3/24/2006 02:12:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

He didn't point out Northside's agenda, only accused him of having one. He accuse...Wait "patrolman" are you now anonymous trying to rally support?

3/24/2006 02:19:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"partolman" You accused an agenda, but you never said what it is. And I'm confused, if it's supporting a KIA coppper, WTF?

3/24/2006 02:22:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can you name 1 valid point?

3/24/2006 02:31:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


He said the thread was open. :)

3/24/2006 02:40:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Sorry was on another blog, I too wished Northside good night. Just FWM. Late I'm tired, both of you had it goin on. :) or is it :(
Attempting to un-numb myself. Selfish, huh?

3/24/2006 02:46:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

2:31, "patrolman for life" that's the best answer?
The threads open?
You lose :^)00

3/24/2006 02:47:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


I'm not patrolman for life, I'm just a sleepy po. :(

3/24/2006 02:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've been to 3 police funerals where I knew the officers personally. One was a friend I had known since high school, one was a guy I worked with on the watch, and one was a neighbor.

What I remember most about those funerals was the feeling of absolute disgust I had for all the exempts as they pushed to the front for their "spot" at the graveside. They were all deep in mourning as they planned their dinner arrangements. All the line dogs were pushed to the rear. I remember thinking how much I hated those fucking political animals. They would have stuck it in any one those coppers asses if they had fucked up. What a fucked up job.

On a side note, at my neighbors funeral they had all the officers from his district lined up in formation behind our gold braided crime fighters. I was standing in their last rank next to a guy just out of the academy. A female officer from the 1st Deputy's office was going thru lining everyone up. When she got to me she looked at my name tag and said, "If you're not in the *** District you can't stand here". I was so fucking angry. I said, "I drank his beer and I fixed his lawnmower. If I want to stand here that's what I'm gonna do; now why don't you go fuck yourself". The poor PPO looked like he wanted to die. Small victories.

I'll see you at St. Jude.

3/24/2006 03:29:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SCC 915

Yes, it is not complete:

Go to the front of the Constitution and Bylaws Revised Sept. 2004

There you will find a chronlogical list of the amendments.

The entry starting with:

"On the 9th of May, 2000.....On the 19th of September, 2000 amendments to Article 1 Sections 2 and 3 of the By-Laws was presented, approved and adopted..."

Those amendments from 19 Sept. 2000 were never added to the language in the Revised Sept 2004 Lodge 7 Constitution and By-Laws.

If you have the Aug, Sept, and Oct, Nove 2000 FOP Newsletters you will find the language of the amendments.

The new language added the cite you posted but in addition reference is maid to any other bargaining unit ie PBPA.

If you remember when Donahue was President of the State FOP Lodge probably the only time he spoke out at a Lodge 7 general meeting was when he lobbied to allow Sgts on the board of Lodge 7 because in his "arguement" he said Lodge 7 was in conflict with the State and National Constitution which makes no reference to rank in regards to being elected an officer of the lodge. Hell the State and National is loaded with "bosses" in fact hte 1st Vice President of the State Lodge is a Commander in Joliet PD.

The difference is that the State and National Lodges are "ONLY FRATERNAL" in fact the State FOP LOdge has the Illinois FOP State Labor Council a separate oranization and that is where Ill. State Lodge Street is from.

Needless to say Nolan who was President of Lodge 7 at the time of Donahue's push to let sgts be on the Lodge 7 board was not impressed by Donahue's veiled threat that Lodge 7 could be expelled from FOP if sgts were not allowed on the Board.

Nolan's practice and those before him enforced the position that once you were promoted to sgt you left the Board "FOR THE GOOD OF THE ORDER".

I have the FOP 2000 Newsletters if you need them.

But a call to the Recording Secretary FOP Lodge 7 will confirm what I have posted here.

The bottom line:

NOT DONAHUE.........


3/24/2006 04:27:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why don't we just get a real union?

3/24/2006 04:37:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


3/24/2006 05:02:00 AM  
Anonymous patrolman for life said...

Boy you guys are hotheads! NORTHSIDE, my post wasn't a rant at YOU in any way...I guess i shouldn't have started with a tongue-in-cheek swipe at ya. No offense. I know some of your story and respect that you stood up to the city with the testing fiasco.

I just find it a bit absurd that so many of these young guys are foaming at the mouth over the Hampton sign issue. I wasn't on the job yet in the 60's, but my father was and I can understand the older guys who lived through that being pissed off. But some of you guys in your 20's and young 30's getting yourself's into a rage, and using the names of two coppers who died, two coppers who you never even heard of until a month ago, well...I stand by my original post.

The turn out at Eric Solario's funeral says it all. You guys like to sit behind your keyboards and trash talk everybody and everything, but when the chips are down, and you are being counted on, you are no where to be found. Afraid to stand in the rain.

As to questions of my position and my family life: My family life is very happy because I'm happy with myself and my accomplishments, thank you very much. I don't bring the stress of this job home and I'm lucky enough to not have to work 4 side jobs (anymore). I'm not even taking the sergeants test because I have absolutely NO desire to get promoted. NONE! And I don't "need" the money because my wife already makes more than me and has better benefits than me!

Oh yeah, Battery and Domestic Battery. Any other questions? Now I'm going to go about my RDO stress free and not worrying about things that I can't control. I'd suggest some of you try it.

3/24/2006 08:55:00 AM  
Anonymous patrolman for life said...

Oops, almost forgot. My "lowly P.O." comment went right over the heads of most of you. Again, sarcasim and silliness boys. The written word often fails to convey this. I know exactly how important my position is!

Never thought I'd have to apologize for NOT being a jaded, cynical prick.

3/24/2006 09:05:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The thing that ticks me off about northside is anytime that anyone disagrees with him they're a boss. Grow up, northie. I heard from an old, old timer you couldn't hold a candle to your old man who was a good guy.

3/24/2006 12:16:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, asshole. Lay off my man Northside. Show me any copper who locked up more felons.

He's probably got more time pissing in the alleys of Fillmore than you got in felony court.

3/24/2006 12:31:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


We need more coppers like John Northern.

Jealous, housemouse?

3/24/2006 12:34:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There's no doubt that northside made enemies on the job for doing the right thing.

What's your problem, dickhead.

3/24/2006 12:38:00 PM  
Anonymous area 4 retiree said...

For a pooch who probably couldn't find an elephant in a phone booth, you got a lot of nerve. Johnny Northside was the best dick I've ever met or worked with, bar none.

Another worthless boss, 12:16?

3/24/2006 12:52:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The problem remains the same. You want people to get up and go honor fallen officers and show solidarity, but some of us just can't stomach St. Judes with those exempts there taking a shit on the ceremony just by their mere presence. Therefore we need another way to honor the fallen and support the families with out the shit stinkin, scumbag exempts. I'm not even angry. I just feel that at this point and time calling an exempt a scumbag is like calling any other scumbag a scumbag. It's just what they are. It's like, you know, a fact.

3/24/2006 01:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So would say that calling Ald Haithcock a scumbag is a fact?
What about Fred Hampton or Bobby Rush?

3/24/2006 01:39:00 PM  
Blogger SCC said...

The current Constitution and By laws already prevent sgts for not only running for election.

The fact that the sgts have an exclusive bargaining agent that represents them excludes sgt's from remaining on the board once they are promoted.

OK Wayne, we've found the section that says on members below the rank of Sergeant can run for office. We still can't find anything that requires them to resign. If Nolan had a past practice in place, could you cite a member who was promoted and resigned? And even if it happened, there is no rule in place that requires a resignation that we found. Like we said before, it would take an amendment to force them off the board and even if such an amendment passed, they would probably be covered by the rules under which they were elected and grandfathered in from actually being force out.

We still aren't sure what you are arguing. We know a lot of people are unhappy about Sergeants on the Board, but they don't affect anything. We happen to be unhappy about the 7 retirees, but they don't affect anything either. What is the beef here?

3/24/2006 04:46:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's still not right for anyone to remain on FOP's board of directors once they get promoted to sergeant. It's not against the by-laws, but it's still not right.

I speak as an FOP member since I came on the job, and a Fraternal FOP member since I was promoted. If it had been me, I would have resigned.

I call on them again to do the honorable thing and resign. There is no loss of face here, they were promoted, and they stepped aside.

Why won't they do it?

3/24/2006 05:27:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


ask and you shall recieve:







3/24/2006 06:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is the perk for Sgt's. to be on the FOP brd? They are not stepping down because powers to be allow them to remain.

What Wayne said is true it is up to the officer's to require them to surrender, after all the spots would then be filled with bargaining members like themselves. Question, isnt that enought of a reason?

3/24/2006 07:31:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The perk is they get $400 a month from FOP. $9,600 a year of members money going to Sgts. What a waste.

Second, had one of the inside guys made Sgt. would they have taken the position. Would they stay upstairs - would take stay on the Board. Would the members want a Sgt. representing the FOP? I think not! It is time for Donahue to stand up and say enough is enough. NO SGTS. SHOULD BE ON THE BOARD!!!

3/25/2006 07:14:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is the officer's who need to demand this, I was at the meeting when the vote was taken. Donahue wanted the Sgt. on board, call it friendship or loyalty, this is why the Sgt. is there. Yes there were no votes just not enough.

Meetings are often filled with officer's who barely understand their contract let alone the constitution and bylaws. They attempt to be union strong, that is good for what it is worth, but not if they do not understand the full context of their votes in the long run.

Here lies the problem.

3/25/2006 04:44:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The $400 perk should be enough for any officer to move to get those spots. One cannot operate in violation of bylaws. What's the hold up here officers?

Put those positions up for across the board vote. At least make it look fair.

3/25/2006 06:55:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sgt. of arms was a po originally and that is the vote I'm referring to, he was promoted; issue came up for debate then vote. He had no problem staying before the vote hence the issue nor afterwards. Can't fault him if there is a perk involved some would say.

3/25/2006 07:22:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


3/28/2006 08:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From day one the FOP has sold out the working Police Officers because their leaders are ass wipes taking care of themselfs.Their puppets for the Mayor.

3/30/2006 07:48:00 PM  

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