Um, What the Fuck is This?
We got an e-mail in our Department address. We aren't going to copy/paste the whole thing because they put that thing at the bottom saying we shouldn't, but we're going to quote from it liberally:
- Please be advised that the Chicago Police Department will release lists containing information related to complaints lodged against officers in response to recent Freedom of Information Act requests. [blah blah blah reporters Gorner/Tribune and Novak/Sun Times] The time frame for the information is January 1, 1967 to the present. [emphasis added - SCC]
Um, what? We seem to recall that certain phrases in certain Contracts that said files would be destroyed after 7 years. In fact, we remember voting against the Nolan assholes because they acquiesced to raising the retention period from five years to seven.
Now suddenly, files that are nearly five decades old (and shouldn't even exist) are going to be released? And the reason behind this is.....what exactly? To assist plaintiff lawyers in some decades old grudge matches? To judge the Department of 47 years ago against today's hypersensitive anti-police sentiments? To connect generations of police officers through a shady process that protects the connected and condemns the unclouted?
Someone want to explain? Someone from FOP preferably? Or has Rahm been rubbing their bellies again?
Now suddenly, files that are nearly five decades old (and shouldn't even exist) are going to be released? And the reason behind this is.....what exactly? To assist plaintiff lawyers in some decades old grudge matches? To judge the Department of 47 years ago against today's hypersensitive anti-police sentiments? To connect generations of police officers through a shady process that protects the connected and condemns the unclouted?
Someone want to explain? Someone from FOP preferably? Or has Rahm been rubbing their bellies again?
Labels: un-fucking-believable
posted by SCC at 12:05 AM
118 Comments:
I hope they tear through all of these complaints and print the complaints out to show what terrible people we are. In fact, I give them permission to use my first ever CR as an example of what a terrible officer I am. I was accused of not rendering police service because I had stated to the complainant that I disliked Germans. In fact, I love Germans, their beer and their food. The moment I received that complaint I realized that I was in for 29 years and a day of nonsense.
Plaintiff lawyers are only trying to bring closure, redress old wrongs, make their clients whole again. If a person has been wronged adn suffered damage he/she should be allowed to collect their just damages, no matter how long ago the act occured.
I saw this on line in one of the papers earlier. Of course it is now gone.
Sounds like it could be a heck of a lawsuit if files had not been destroyed after 7 years.
Other than for the purpose of tracing the different family trees of CPD royalty and how political clout protected the dirty and defended indefensible actions, Gorner & Co. are on some bullshit with this...
Expect for regular Policemen and no-clout Police families who did it on the square and by the rules of engagement of their respective eras on the job to be the only ones to get hurt in this if the Chicago media stay true to form to their traditional cowardice when it comes to Chicago clout.
They always stop short of the people who are top cards in the Inner Party Rolodex of Evil...
Why stop at 1967?
Why not 1917?
Start the witch hunt from then...
It would make more sense.
"We're hunting you so called ass-kicker Cops and where you guys get the notion that asskickery is ok."
I had a not sustained non abuse CR from 2003 and I wasn't on the CR list and the City still gave the Sun Times the info. I called the union and I was told by Dan Herbert that he wouldn't touch the case and to just chalk it up. What a fucking joke we have no union protection even when the City violates general orders and the contract.
I never believed the files would be destroyed after 5 yrs let alone 7 yrs. Somehow this smacks of the department/city violating the contract. The union, any union, since this breach affects all ranks, unless the bosses' names were intentionally omitted, should file an injunction/suit.
Most all of those files probably don't exist. They can request all the shit in the world, doesn't mean they will get much of anything. That is just a broad time frame for them to pick from, hopefully they get piles and piles of useless unorganized paperwork to sift through for days on end.
Well, you know, there was that one copper who swore at a citizen back in 1971and they just got the guy to sign an affidavit....
You did not believe that the city would actually destroy complaint records, did you? I know for a fact that they had one of mine that was 10 years old, the entire file. You cannot trust the city or department to do the correct thing,
Why don't list the names of those persons who have made their living from engaging the police into a force on force issue, and then suing the police and the city. In fact throw in the lawyers who refuse to take a case when the officers decide to sue because the offender "doesn't have anything.
They just screwed the pooch on that one.
How long before the union files for a TRO or some sort of injunction halting the release of those documents?
How long before the lawyers begin filing suit for breach of contract? You can almost hear the lawyers clamoring to cash those settlement checks, not to mention any retired POs whose files may be subject to release because of the boneheaded mistakes of the city and department.
You know Rahm is giggling and has that impish grin on his face. " Sorry guys but laws are laws and rules are rules" he says.
Like that slimy bastard ever follows any rules or laws that he doesn't agree with. If Rahm doesn't like, or agree with, a rule or contract or law he simply runs roughshod right over it.
That's why no one trusts anyone on this department or in city hall. Everything is one big lie. No one believes a thing anyone says. Whatever is in our contract or any contract doesn't mean a damm thing.
In giving my opinion I preface I am not an attorney, only a cop with some insight into this topic. From those I spoke to in the FOP as well as MLAS, what was told to me was, get ready for this - the language in the contract is there for our protection in the event,that if state law is ever changed or overturned, the Dept.would not be able to administratively do or not do whatever the particular language requires or forbids. Much of the verbiage in the contract may have existed and actually granted real protections at one time before law overrode what the contract had to say. Because FOIA is law, this supersedes our contract, therefore in a nutshell it seems that the contract in this case is not worth the paper it's written on.
I, like most of us have been working under the false assumption that the CR#s are stricken from your record after five years (seven years applies to not sustained CRs). If you ever call IAD to schedule an appointment to view your complaint file, this is what they have waiting for you - the last five years of complaints. This is an issue both the FOP and the Dept. need to address with us all. And if I happen to be wrong on this, forgive me, but this is how it was explained to me when I raised this as an issue in my attempts to stop the Bond and Moore lists from being released.
SCC, current Chicago FOP President, Dean Angelo, NEGOTIATED THE INCREASE TO SEVEN YEARS!!!!! He was one of the Nolan guys we were so pissed off at that we voted every last one of them out of office.
Wait for this bullshit to play out. The mayor had the city treasurer leave her post early so he could hire a cook county politician from prickwrinkle. In case you wonder why, the city treasurer sits on their boards and has clout over ALL the city's pension funds! Now it's his guy doin it!
Talk about a control freak!!!! Nothing good can come from this...
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-emanuel-new-city-treasurer-met-20141022-story.html
Force out is 63 years of age correct? Then why go back to 1967? There is no one still working that was police in 1967.
The union? what union? We are all on our own boys....
Unions never ever have their members backs. They are strictly political organizations whose sole purpose is to advance a Marxist oriented agenda....always have, always will.
If they have to throw members under the bus while the big wheels are rolling they absolutely will if it advances the political agenda.
First & foremost, you are a source of dues which will be used as the union politburo sees fit.
As a union member, you are a cash crop & that's all you are.
Think about this for a second.
If THIS issue of not expunging old records are not being kept - and that has been negotiated "supposedly" by FOP, do you really think your pension is bullet-proof and not susceptible to some big changeout?
Before you say, "BS or any other argument" let that sink in. I don't trust anything negotiated in Chicago or Illinois anymore.
Good luck on the street and take that NY hatchet incident into consideration when you are out there. Watch your backs.
If it isn't the politicians, it's some fanatic trying to stab you in the back- figuratively and literally.
Scc...I called the FOP. Made this exact inquiry. Was told "yeah well we all know the City is suppose to expunge the files but in reality they didn't...so nothing we can do." I asked when the FOP was planning to file the class action grievance for this willful and egregious breach of the contract and was told "we can't." I asked for the case precedence and/or arbitrator ruling that precludes such s grievance and was told "don't know...but we can't." I asked if our attorneys were on their way to court to file a restraining order on this and was literally told "be safe." WTF??????? This seems like one of those back room shady ass deals Shields was talking about. Timing of this is not a coincidence. Can only hope some lawyer does this on their own who represents a retiree's interest who is no longer governed by the contract and also brings the FOP into the action for failing to represent our best interests
I am now retired and much of this is a fading memory, but I seem to remember that destruction of files only applied to Not-Sustained, Exonerated or Unfounded, and that Sustained CR's could be kept. Again, you don't need to flame me, but that is only my recollection.
So when is the class action?
Blatant violation kinda like not sending a certain letter on time.
Rahm fucked us so why not vice versa?
The language in the contract is pretty simple. a days of pay for each CR posted per officer seems fair.
But who am i, i'm just a patrol officer and i don,t know a damn thing thats why i should not negotiate a contract! Guess the experts at FOP will need to grow some balls and flex.
Can i FOIA all the resumes and application of people who were merit promoted since the 1960's?
Seems fair
1967?
Some poor happily retired officer is going to get a knock on the door demanding the keys to his house for "disrespecting" some lunatic during the 1969 Days of Rage.
Can't wait
SCC,you should know better.They keep EVERYTHING so it can be used against an officer if need be.
Legal affairs was actually telling officers that the union has never enforced this part of the contract and everyone was in on it. Several officers including myself called the current FOP office and told them what legal affairs was saying about the retention. FOP just laughed and said it could not be true.
Those of us who came on the job with Prior Military Service knew back in the 70's that no bureaucracy destroys all of its files. And once something is written, the potential for a copy exists somewhere. So many years ago, when the issue came up at contract, I can recall being shouted down when I said that we needed assurances greater than the word of the City. Unfortunately, my mistrust has been confirmed. The City Does Not Have Your Backs and Anything that is Written has a life onto itself. It will be interesting to see what the Cowards at IAD wrote to keep their weekends off and take home cars.
Plaintiff lawyers are only trying to bring closure, redress old wrongs, make their clients whole again. If a person has been wronged adn (sic) suffered damage he/she should be allowed to collect their just damages, no matter how long ago the act occured (sic).
That's not what the law says!
Why doesn't FOP file foia for the tif funds then! Let's see how much money is in there!
To: All those that voted for Dean and subsequently the contract.....This is the treatment you deserve. Everyone else, I'm sorry. We're trying our best to make him a one term or sooner.
PS: This, body camera's, and residency should have been the hold out's on the contract.
Now you know why my activity is so low, I cant even qualify for VRI!..woof..woof!
Nothing has been destroyed, everything has been saved
And its all coming out
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/24/us/california-officers-shot/index.html?c=homepage-t
FOIA says "IF" we have a record, we must turn it over. The Department did in fact violate the contract, and could have corrected it at any time by destroying the records as required. Even when the 1st small FOIA request came in (for a single PO), the 10 or so files could have been turned over and then Legal Affairs would have been made aware of the problem and ordered it corrected by telling IAD to destroy all those records over 5 years old. Hell, they should STILL destroy them-RIGHT NOW. What's turned over is done-you can't unring a bell. But all the exempts know this is wrong and no one is manning up. Doesn't help PBPA and Dean Angelo are lapdogs.
I'm retired now, but when I was still active I got a 'morals beef.'
Guilty as sin, I beat it though, Bwaahaha!
Try as they may, IPRA could not get that damn sheep to sign the affidavit.
You're Welcome!
WTF
This FOIA request was made by two reporter hacks from the Times and Trib.
As for the department holding on to the cr info, it is federally mandated to do so. As for the 5 and 7 year deal, all file info is kept forever however your over 5/7 case files cannot be used to determine current punishment.
So the city and politicians keep screwing us over, but guys and girls are quick to sign up for VRI, Special, Parks, and any other overtime that comes along. When are you people going to realize that you are only helping Tiny Dancer while hurting yourselves?
12:49 keep smokin that shit
I've posted several times over the years that these records were never destroyed. They are kept in a huge warehouse near HQ. I think 39th and Michigan.
Will the complaintants be listed? Will the attorneys who help draft them be listed? Can defamation lawsuits ensue against the city and its accusers? Does this apply to politicians too?
anyone comment or express an opinion re: the department's handling of complaints? for example, if there is a complaint filed, and no sworn affidavit obtained from the person filing the complaint, the case should be closed.....but, the dept. makes the investigator search records (case or arrest reports, computerized dispatch, etc.) to see what officers were on the scene, made an arrest, etc.; then...those officers are listed as "accused members" on the file...more often than not, the officers have no idea a complaint was filed, since they receive no notification and no opportunity to respond....yet, their names are listed in a complaint file...fair?
The bottom line is government record keeping and FOI laws trump contract provisions every time.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Plaintiff lawyers are only trying to bring closure, redress old wrongs, make their clients whole again. If a person has been wronged adn suffered damage he/she should be allowed to collect their just damages, no matter how long ago the act occured.
10/25/2014 12:21:00 AM
--------
Uh, no.
That's why statutes of limitations bar most old claims.
On a related topic, coppers should know that if they use their personal cell phones, laptops or other electro gizmos for work plaintiff's lawyers can get court orders for phone/computer/gizmo dumps during which all kinds of personal info will be accessed.
Don't use your personal gear for work. Ever. All it takes is one admitted or traceable use and your life becomes an open book for your favorite people.
No wonder there are Officers who refuse to do anything anymore!
Police work is DEAD!
No backing from balls-less bosses!
City Politicians throw Officers under the bus for Votes!
Just get your Pension check and move from Chicago!
"In fact, we remember voting against the Nolan assholes because they acquiesced to raising the retention period from five years to seven."
Funny Dean Angelo was a Nolan Asshole and he's the current President.
So who are really the assholes??
" I called the union and I was told by Dan Herbert that he wouldn't touch the case and to just chalk it up. What a fucking joke we have no union protection even when the City violates general orders and the contract."
If you had clout or were politically connected Herbert would've taken the case. When you're not it's fuck you, shut up & pay your dues.
how is it a criminal can have his record expunge and sued the city if they don't. Can the FOP do the same for non-sustain or unfounded cr
I, like most of us have been working under the false assumption that the CR#s are stricken from your record after five years (seven years applies to not sustained CRs). If you ever call IAD to schedule an appointment to view your complaint file, this is what they have waiting for you - the last five years of complaints. This is an issue both the FOP and the Dept. need to address with us all. And if I happen to be wrong on this, forgive me, but this is how it was explained to me when I raised this as an issue in my attempts to stop the Bond and Moore lists from being released.
I called iAd and spoke to a copper who told me Sgt muzzapapa does not allow you to look at your records wonder why?
All the way back to 1967? How interesting? The Democratic Convention Riot was in 1968. Why not go back to the Haymarket riots or maybe the Chicago fire? What kind of witch hunt are they trying.
Keep sullying the Chicago Police. The force that has protected this city and you will get a a bunch of wildings, beatings of innocent citizens downtown for fun. Increases in robberies and burglaries. Shootings up.
95 percent of CR complaints are not sustained or unfounded for good reason. They are bullshit complaints. So focus on that 3 percent that are legit complaints that are going to happen and quit painting us with that broad brush that we are all somehow brutal and abuse our office.
Its only that three percent that the lawyers focus on because they see dollars signs. The media is no help. Good news is not news. Bad news is good news. Just watch any TV or listen to any news radio. They all lead with the most sensational homicide story or police shooting of the day.
What if the news media reported
that 95 percent of police complaints are not justified. The amount of shootings are up. Burglaries and robberies are up. Naw wishfull thinking. How naive of me. The wolfs in sheep clothing are sneering.
We will continue to do more with less. The sheep will continue to be taken advantage of, because they are sheep. We will continue to get complaints because we are not sheep.
OT - http://www.msnbc.com/up/watch/pat-quinn-imposes-21-day-ebola-quarantine-347741251886
Illinois Governor Pat Quinn imposes mandatory 21 day ebola quarantine.
Wow. First intelligent thing he has done since he's been in office.
And if MSLSD reported it, it must be true, right?
Call the next case. Not a cop.
Remember there are disciplinary files which are purged after 7 years and then there's the PERMANENT COMPLAINT HISTORY FILE.......all complaints you ever receive on this job are memorialized on YOUR Complaint History File......and are available for review.....
"We're hunting you so called ass-kicker Cops and where you guys get the notion that asskickery is ok."
ill kick YOUR ass you pussified liberal,socialist, democrat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Remember, its only contract language, it means shit. The City saves everything, regardless of what they tell you, and they get away with this because they're in compliance with the law rather than the contract. I was always concerned about this for those that had sustained CR#s and the file was to be removed after five years and if ever questioned in a deposition about their discipline, how are they supposed to answer?
For clarification, not that it means anything now, Cr#s with the disposition of exonerated, unfounded, sustained have a 5 year limit as opposed to not sustained that have a 7 year term.
How long before the union files for a TRO or some sort of injunction halting the release of those documents?
Already tried to no avail.
This FOIA request was made by two reporter hacks from the Times and Trib.
As for the department holding on to the cr info, it is federally mandated to do so. As for the 5 and 7 year deal, all file info is kept forever however your over 5/7 case files cannot be used to determine current punishment.
How about releasing the sergeants test list?? Bullshit.
Now retired...
If I am not mistaken completed C.R. file over 5 or 7 years old are supposed to be destroyed...
Except...when there is a lawsuit over the actions of the officer or there is an ongoing investigation such as a murder involved.
So why isn't there a committee trying to remove anything that does not comply with these parameters. Or they could go to court and place a seal on those records and putting them in the same closet as Obama's real birth certificate and college records.
Otherwise every time an officer's name shows up whether it is for trouble or a commendation this ancient crap will surface.
Maybe we should stop protecting politicians you know mayors alderman etc.
during much of that time frame, complaints could be made anonymously. so the working officers who were in high crime areas will have a disproportionately higher number than others.
maybe they could publish a list of the people who filed multiple complaints against officers? wouldn't that show them to be chronic complainers?
Here is the bottom line:
The CRs can not be used against you after 7 years.
HOWEVER the records are NEVER destroyed.
The question is how can a judge allow the Sun Times and Tribune to have the records without just cause.
Rahm loves to rub bellies, especially male ones.
From one who knows.
Now, kees me you fool!!!!
Anonymous said...
Plaintiff lawyers are only trying to bring closure, redress old wrongs, make their clients whole again. If a person has been wronged adn suffered damage he/she should be allowed to collect their just damages, no matter how long ago the act occured.
10/25/2014 12:21:00 AM
Don't feed the TROLLS!
Files and info/inv reports relating to the complaints get destroyed, no the number. Just because a beef happened 10 years ago doesn't mean that after 7 years it never happened... It still happened and is kept listed on your history but any facts of the investigation are destroyed.. The number, allegation finding and punishment are always kept on record... It just can't be used against you... It doesn't just vanish to say u have never gotten the complaint...
The files never disappear. Wait for your first federal lawsuit and they will be there waiting for you.
No department ever gets rid of anything in your file. They have to keep everything in case of lawsuits. From you or someone else. They may purge things from your "working file" but your "permanent file" has it all.
Daley and Weis as bad as they were did not cower and cave on this issue like Rahm and Garry. Bring on the class action and make the bastards pay. All members need to request a viewing of lists to make sure they do not contain errors.
I can understand how the carpetbagger has no concerns about turning over CPD members complaints over the past 45 years, but do you think he would have pulled this stunt with NYPD members.
'1967' ?!?! What the fuck...over?
The city violates the contract and the law at every turn. These fuckers haven't been paying their share into the pension for years.
To all the internet-certified lawyers on here: There is NO LAW which mandates the Department keep old CR files (unless they are part of an actual criminal or civil case). The contract has been and continues to be violated. They are instructed to destroy them because every officer will now have their character attacked by these mostly baseless CRs. You think a jury is going to care your racial beef and money beef were "unfounded" when deciding to weigh your credibility? They don't get it, and civil and defense attorneys know this. This is a gift wrapped present to the legal industry made by this Supe and every supe before him who was too afraid to tell Internal Affairs to follow the same rules everyone else does.
The best part is the city giving out files on open in progress murder cases. Snitches get stitches. Don't talk to the police your statement may end up in the suntimes. It is just an effort to further whittle down the needs for detectives. Down to about 800 from 1300. Their goal is ensure more uniformed police are standing around writing contact cards and parkers. If no one will talk to the detectives just suspend and move on. Everyone will be on foot because they won't buy any cars.
There is no federal mandate or court order to keep CRS (Corporation Counsel's office knows this too ) Unions or any Dept member can file a complaint with Illinois Dept of Labor on Monday morning and asked for a stay on production of lists and/or file a lawsuit in chancery court.
Hey Rahm, aka Mayor "transparency", are you releasing complaints made against non CPD city employees or is it just police you want to hammer you evil little feckless man child ?
and Rick "King of the Janitors" Simon was heard to say, "Et tu, Garry, upon the release of old crs
I think it might be time for all members to get a private contract lawyer other than the FOP and give them a class action against the city and the FOP
So that means except for new PPO's, well maybe a few of them too everyone will be on the list. WTF.
They will not be used against you after 7 yrs....they are always on file. The City cannot destroy them, but they can't be used against you for discipline after 7 yrs.
What if every P/O filed a FOIA on behalf of ourselves to see exactly what each and every one of our files contain? All of us.
That should keep 'em bizzy for awhile?
Anonymous said...
12:49 keep smokin that shit
10/25/2014 09:30:00 AM
And the CPD legacy clout-baby says:
"WAAAHH!"
Fuck you chump...
It was all "Hooray for me, thanks to Dad and Grand-Dad and fuck everybody else!"
Clout is one thing that fucked this job up and you m/fers who had the hook by gestation, ingestion or injection are shitting your pants because how you obtained your birthright might be getting looked at?
Fuck you m/fers again.
Just because you're the son of and the grandson of whatever "boss"or you sucked/fucked or got fucked/sucked by a boss, politician or rev'run doesn't entitle you to having test answers, plum assignments etc.
Many a dumb, ignorant, thieving, rotten, racist, no class having m/fer from CPD "royalty" or the ethnic flavor of the day got made by "score" or clout. Some of them are running around with Gold Stars at this very moment.
The only "good shit" being smoked over here is the occasional well aged, heavy bodied cigar...
You guys have no clue how it works. The complaints are purged from your file for discipline purposes. The feds can get the complaints forever....wake up smell it. For all of your PO who voted NO thanks for your efforts for did not vote at all GO FUCK YOURSELF and give me your RETRO CHECK, Just an FYI there is a list of the people that did not cast a ballot. A freedom of information request is being files to get the names...
Keep voting for these Democrats, who hast the FLOP endorsed for the past 3 decades? Use your vote because the union is not your friend.
Just trying to make sense of all this,that's all,trying to make right the wrong,trying to undo the done,trying to say I'm sorry,trying to say forgive me,trying to understand how after a wonderful career as a po and wondering why the best day became the day I retired and had little to worry about,suddenly became a nightmare,of possible pension taking ,health care rising,past cr number investigating and public exposing,put the spotlight on crooked politicians and there tactics and the controlled media,have a nice life! Stop pissing me off I'm retired!
@ 1249
"Asskickery" I'm stealing that.
Anonymous said...
They will not be used against you after 7 yrs....they are always on file. The City cannot destroy them, but they can't be used against you for discipline after 7 yrs.
10/25/2014 05:34:00 PM
______________________
Sure, the complaints will not be used against you. Just ignore the pink elephant in the room.
The union has ample evidence against the wrongful conviction crowd to destroy them but they have chosen to ignore it. It's a failure to represent.
https://martin-preib-b7is.squarespace.com/news/2014/10/22/v5pw2npn4rucdzofhiapmwq6yivodi
Maybe we could recover all the shady money paid for legal bills or have the crooked attorneys who pocketed it and likEly kicked cash back, file a lawsuit or temp injunction on the issue, on the house.... after all many got rich on our dimes and you know who you are. Some even continue to "serve" us. What a frickin joke!
John Catanzara 008
What the heck are they going to do with all this crap.
Write new episodes of CHICAGO P.D.? That show is terrible and that would make for some good scripts.
They just may piss someone off who is or knows a really good hacker and sends the Sun-Times or whoever back to the
Line-o-Type Age.
The first rule of Lost Record Club is don't talk about Lost Record Club.
"Yeah Sarge, I went down to the locker, they loaded up a bunch of boxes in the wagon. Not sure how many... 3 or 4..."
Take that crap that should have been destroyed and burn it. Then pour the ashes in some hydrochloric acid. Pour it in the river.
" I called the union and I was told by Dan Herbert that he wouldn't touch the case and to just chalk it up. What a fucking joke we have no union protection even when the City violates general orders and the contract."
If you had clout or were politically connected Herbert would've taken the case. When you're not it's fuck you, shut up & pay your dues.
You called Herbert at the Union, really? His office is on Clinton asswipe.
You guys have no clue how it works. The complaints are purged from your file for discipline purposes. The feds can get the complaints forever....wake up smell it. For all of your PO who voted NO thanks for your efforts for did not vote at all GO FUCK YOURSELF and give me your RETRO CHECK, Just an FYI there is a list of the people that did not cast a ballot. A freedom of information request is being files to get the names...
10/25/2014 07:23:00 PM
Please stop ,you're scarring me.
They will not be used against you after 7 yrs....they are always on file. The City cannot destroy them, but they can't be used against you for discipline after 7 yrs.
10/25/2014 05:34:00 PM
Tell that to John Burge and Glen Evans
That might be what was requested, and the city replied they would supply docs from those years, but that doesn't mean the city isn't saying, "no data available" for certain years...but I wouldn't be surprised if the files were not ever destroyed.
You're legally entitled to see you personnel file, according to Det .of labor. BT ho to enforce it?
Anonymous said...
They will not be used against you after 7 yrs....they are always on file. The City cannot destroy them, but they can't be used against you for discipline after 7 yrs.
10/25/2014 05:34:00 PM
Tell that to John Burge and Glen Evans
10/26/2014 01:44:00 AM
There's no statute of limitations on Official Misconduct.
Anonymous said...
Plaintiff lawyers are only trying to bring closure, redress old wrongs, make their clients whole again. If a person has been wronged adn suffered damage he/she should be allowed to collect their just damages, no matter how long ago the act occured.
10/25/2014 12:21:00 AM
"Plantiff lawyers" are only trying to bring money.
Plaintiff lawyers are only trying to bring closure, redress old wrongs, make their clients whole again. If a person has been wronged adn suffered damage he/she should be allowed to collect their just damages, no matter how long ago the act occured.
Then I should be able to go all the way back to 1992 and sue my asshole neighbor for putting up a basketball hoop on the alley side of his garage. That thing brought every little shithead from blocks around.
The emotional stress I suffered when I sat out in my yard and would hear these assholes use my garage door as a back stop was unbearable.
I need to be made whole again. $50,000 seems about right. /sarcasm
There is no one still working that was police in 1967.
True. But if you have the right lawyer and a carefully practiced story, I have no doubt that some asshole(s) would try and sue the retired cop.
And if the officer in question is deceased, then go after the family.
Anonymous said...
You guys have no clue how it works. The complaints are purged from your file for discipline purposes. The feds can get the complaints forever....wake up smell it.
10/25/2014 07:23:00 PM
Excuse me, I must go and purge myself while performing my necessaries.
There are several different computer programs that only IAD bosses can access. The one most of the Department may be aware, and most IAD investigators can look at. to form a prejudice against you, shows your CR history for the last 5 years.
The system that few know of, and only a handful of people can access, shows your entire CR history. Including retired members, going back to the 80's, maybe beyond.
To give you an idea, I have 20+ years. A friend of mine who had access to the secret system ran my name for me. It showed my whole history, AND my dad's, who has the same name, and retired 2 years before I came on!
There is a standing federal court order to not destroy CR files. They are all warehoused at 39th and Michigan. The contract permits the City to only use 5 (or is it 7) years worth to assess discipline. Everything else is discoverable, and clearly now, FOIA-able.
Please stop ,you're scarring me.
10/26/2014 01:41:00 AM
Continue, you're abrasioning me.
" I called the union and I was told by Dan Herbert that he wouldn't touch the case and to just chalk it up. What a fucking joke we have no union protection even when the City violates general orders and the contract."
If you had clout or were politically connected Herbert would've taken the case. When you're not it's fuck you, shut up & pay your dues.
You called Herbert at the Union, really? His office is on Clinton asswipe.
This guy... Herbert isn't on clinton. Get your facts straight before bashing others... Fuck herbert anyway. He works for the clout babies. Fuck you pay me kinda guy.
Anonymous said...
You guys have no clue how it works. The complaints are purged from your file for discipline purposes. The feds can get the complaints forever....wake up smell it. For all of your PO who voted NO thanks for your efforts for did not vote at all GO FUCK YOURSELF and give me your RETRO CHECK, Just an FYI there is a list of the people that did not cast a ballot. A freedom of information request is being files to get the names...
______________________________________________
Unions are not subject to FOIA idiot. Go crawl back into your cubbie hole.
I'm sure NONE of the LEO's here have ever said to someone "if you have nothing to hide, then what are you worried about?"
I could ask the same.
That being said it seems most likely it is just a bunch of lawyers that will be going fishing for anything they can use to fill their pockets.
As others have pointed out, this information will very probably be selectively used, and all in all, it sounds like another complete waste of resources and another step towards Detroit 2.0
Why would the department keep records on anyone who is retired.
"I called the union and Dan Herbert told me".
Nothing says I called Dan Herbert at the union. Called the union and Herbert called back asswipe now go blow Herbert.
I was in Vietnam in 1967, am also retired. Are they going back to what I did over there? Good Luck
The SWAT team told FOP to fuck off and filed a law suit against the city for D-2 pay. FOP and the city kept lying to SWAT about D-2 pay. We need to follow the example of the SWAT boys and suit the city on our own. Let's do it.
for all the half wits out there saying that lawyers are going to file lawsuits against you from a cr number you got in 1997 or in 2010 is garbage and untrue. Civil suits have a statute of limitations which is up after two years. If there was a CR number then the allegation of misconduct/civil rights violation was known thus starting the clock on the limitation. So, I am writing this on 26 Oct 2014, if the incident happened on 25 oct 2012 or before you are safe unless the civil suit is alleging death caused by the member which if I recall correctly has a statute of limitations of 5 years.. otherwise, everyone relax. Your not going to get sued over a bunch of beefs you had in the 80s,90s and 2000s... stop drinkin the conspiracy theorists kool aid.
I would love to see some of my CR#s published, as long as they also publish my to-from's. Actually had a "stupervisor" order me to rewrite a to-from (because "you can't say that"), re-written and said: see previous to-from.
we just got punked, our neighbors and anyone else ( including jurors) who visit tribune or sun times websites can now do Officer name checks
Anonymous said...
Why would the department keep records on anyone who is retired.
10/26/2014 01:48:00 PM
In case they get sued after you retire. You think you are home free when you retire? Hah! Ask Jon Burge.
Just a note, before you go yelling at the City and FOP,
A judge ordered the City to comply with the FOA request. Judge's ruling trumps a contract between city and fop...
Judges ruling trumps a contract between the City and FOP.
if the Department would have destroyed those CR documents after dive or seven years then there would be limited or no files. I don't believe there has ever been a State or Federal judge that has told the City not to get rid of files after a certain time period.
This union doesn't care. This union is run by the firm that Donahue's team fired years ago because they sucked and stroked the cities dick by never going to arb, or court and fighting for us but when they did they lost most of the cases they arbitrated. They'd rather settle everything and make us believe that the settlement offer is the best we are going to get instead of fighting for us and going to arbitration. So Donahue's clan fired them and look whose back to fuck us for a second time? The law offices of Baum N Sigman is back screwing us and running the FOP. We have no union all we have is a pretend disabled sellout that cares about kickback money and himself. This union has canceled every arbitration since they took office 6 months ago to settle them for shit offers for us with the city. At the rate these push over money sucking lawyers are going on canceling every arbitration except 2 the arbitrators will probably not want to do business with this FOP anymore. Why would they want to if every scheduled arb is cancelled. Then where would that leave us? You will all see the repercussions from this sellout union. We have no union so the union for sure won't help us on this!
That is true. Not only did fop fire Baum & Sigman but Didn't prior administrations also fire Dan Herbert & Tom Pleines and didn't Tom sue the FOP?
Dean brought everyone back that was previously fired and sued the FOP.
Even Greg bella "was" being sued by the FOP for stealing money and dean brought him back so you know his case will "disappear"
This administration is the worst. This is who is running our union. What a joke!
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
You guys have no clue how it works. The complaints are purged from your file for discipline purposes. The feds can get the complaints forever....wake up smell it. For all of your PO who voted NO thanks for your efforts for did not vote at all GO FUCK YOURSELF and give me your RETRO CHECK, Just an FYI there is a list of the people that did not cast a ballot. A freedom of information request is being files to get the names...
______________________________________________
Unions are not subject to FOIA idiot. Go crawl back into your cubbie hole.
10/26/2014 11:34:00 AM
And the FOP is not a Union. It's a Fraternal Organization.
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