Municipal Bankruptcies
- If you're short on money and can't pay your bills, you can go to court and declare bankruptcy. But that legal tool is not available to cities and school districts in Illinois.
Now, some politicians, including Governor Bruce Rauner, are looking to change that. They are pushing for a new law that would give government bodies the ability to declare bankruptcy in the face of crushing pension debt.
The numbers are staggering.
Let's start with the state: Illinois has 111-billion dollars in unfunded pension liabilities, while the city of Chicago has 20-billion dollars and another nine and a half billion for Chicago Public Schools.
Plus, billions more are owed by suburban villages and school districts, which is why some believe part of the solution to Illinois' pension crisis is bankruptcy.
That's not a solution - that's an invitation to continue to spend recklessly and trust a bankruptcy court to rescue the legislature from those unchecked bad decisions.
You know what might work? Pension funds are essentially creditors - how about surrendering assets to the funds and allowing them to run the money-generating aspect of things for a while? The Chicago Police Department's O'Hare International Airport sounds catchy. Maybe the Chicago Fire Department's Navy Pier or the Chicago Teacher's Union McCormick Place Convention Center and Casino. They certainly couldn't do much worse than the city does at running the places and at least the massive amounts of revenue would be directed exactly where they should be in the first place instead of connected pockets.
You know what might work? Pension funds are essentially creditors - how about surrendering assets to the funds and allowing them to run the money-generating aspect of things for a while? The Chicago Police Department's O'Hare International Airport sounds catchy. Maybe the Chicago Fire Department's Navy Pier or the Chicago Teacher's Union McCormick Place Convention Center and Casino. They certainly couldn't do much worse than the city does at running the places and at least the massive amounts of revenue would be directed exactly where they should be in the first place instead of connected pockets.
Labels: money questions, pension
posted by SCC at 12:05 AM
91 Comments:
I love it!!! Can I work in the Tower?
If anyone goes BK trustees step in and open up books and ALL existing management launched. Never going to happen. These guys never going to loose control of $ centers, city, parks, CPS, county, etc
Never happen. The politicians want to keep control of any assets.
The Illinois Constitution specifically prohibits the pensions from being "diminished or impaired." The Illinois Supreme Court agreed. No wiggle room for restructuring there. Change the IL Constitution ? Very time-consuming and might not pass anyway. Ladle on more taxes, including a 20% - 40% property tax increase ? You'll drive a critical mass of individual and corporate taxpayers into Wisconsin. So kids, it's BANKRUPTCY HERE WE COME !
Attach to any bill provisions that any elected official, or any management of said petitioner city that is paid more that 6X poverty level be forced to abandon all public pensions and be prevented from all future employment or payment by any body capable of levying tax.
Have said on this blog more than once that Bankruptcy Court is where all this could wind up.
Also, the amount Illinois is short is more like $159,000,000,000 and growing. That is for pensions only - not operating budgets shortfall (another $9,000,000,000+)
In your own situation, I would blame FOP for not calling the city out and demanding they pay the shortfall.
As the old Senator Dirksen of Illinois used to say, "A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking about real money."
Most of you are too young to know who Sen. Dirksen was, that's too bad. (read his bio)
Another one of his quotes, "I have said, with respect to authorization bills, that I do not want the Congress or the country to commit fiscal suicide on the installment plan."
Yep. We did have some good politicians at one time in Illinois. At least he knew you had to keep a budget - AND commit to it.
No,No,No.Are you crazy!
Our friends must wet their beaks!
Just like a select few wired contractors always get the big jobs at O'Hare.
The amount of fraud and waste in this country is staggering. Most of us are too busy working to really get a handle on this. There is money available , these politicians ,like most people spend the money and now don't want to pay. Another example of fraud, ..bankruptcy.
That would work great!
Imagine Dean running the airport? Do you think the FOP could competently organize a bottle party in a brewery?
Get out now!
Sell it and rent something inside the city. Invest in a "vacation home" across the state line.
Higher taxes?
No problem. Chicago has such wonderful schools, low crime, and a pleasant winter climate. People will flock to the city and all the economic opportunities.
All you have to do is cut entitlement spending, and you can fund the pensions without raising taxes. EBT, Section 8, SNAP, all wasted money, just go ahead and cut it.
"Let them eat ... well nothing at all. What's the worst that can happen in South Chicago?"
I am sure Rahm and his buddies can figure out a really convoluted pension financing plan. A plan that will enrich his crony financial friends right away, and add money to the pension plans sometime in the future.**
**Pension payment projections subject to change. Past poor performance guarantees future poor performance, just ask Daley's buddies.
SCC, been thinking about this. Have been waiting for you to post something. Im assuming you just didn't know about it. I sure hope so. Last week, I went to Washington DC for "Cop Week" to see my nephew (CPD) honored as a "Top Cop" in the country. 6 Chicago officers as well as roughly 24 others across the country were awarded "Top Cop" awards for thier heroism. VP Biden Spoke of thier bravery. Called each and every one of them out for thier heroism. I assumed the Sun Times, Trib and mainstream press would take a pass on such a great story, but I didn't expect you to pass it buy. Do some research. It's a shame you didn't recognize them.
Can you imagine the FOP Midway Airport, Dean Angeko Sr Director of Flying Shit? What could go wrong?
LoL the city bankrupted . Well my citizen put your seat belt on !! It's just the beginning . 1. Make the fire department 8 hours worked days . 2. Closed training building including the academy have all training done on line .
Keep 2 shooting ranges open north and south . Reduced all deputies superintendents sergeants and Lt's ! get rid of commanders no need for them !!! Make all timekeeping position civilian . Reduce the fire personnel to 4 .
Welcome home Commander of the 20th district . Happy to see a new tact Lt excellent choice. Glad to see the 20th tact is back in business welcome back officers from your long vacation glad to see there is a tact team in 20th now maybe you will be visible instead of hiding in the tact office with windows blocked by paper bags get rid of those lazy sergeants . excellent job commander keep up the good work .
What up with the wagon up north never seen such laziness they spent more time in station than on the street . They are always coming from different location within the district when they are called . not acceptable get your asses up !!!!! get out of the station and go do your job you are an embarrassment to this organization how can you even acknowledge yourselves as officers .replace laziness with people who want to do there jobs .
When there's nothing holding an object up, eventually the laws of physics take over and it falls.
And when the money is no longer there, even Democrats will have to start sounding like evil Republicans.
Here's how it played out in Rhode Island:
http://reason.org/files/pension_reform_rhode_island.pdf
http://www.governing.com/blogs/bfc/col-rhode-island-pension-reform-agreement-preserve-savings.html
Understand, Rhode Island is like Illinois -- a rat's nest of corrupt Democrats. But they finally had to find a Democrat who acted like a Republican to handle the pension collapse. She's now the governor.
congratulation to all who voted for this team stop bitching.
What !!!!!! No more link or Section 8 Oh no we must protest ,
You put me in line behind a bunch of fuckin' bondholders, you'll see who pays.
Screw with my pension, and you should hide really really good!!
They think we're a bunch of beer drinking, hockey watching dopes. They're partially right. There are enough of us that are hard core, motivated haters who know what's going on.
That's a great idea---which is exactly why they won't do it.
Great
When you sit home on election day for decades, this is what you get. Daley, Madigan and Cullerton have stolen so much money, some of which was used to buy votes that this state is circling the drain. Sell and move while you can.
SCC I have to correct you. In 2005 Congress made it more difficult for individuals and sole proprietorships to declare bankruptcy. The bankers own us. Literally. They own us. However, Big Business can declare bankruptcy when they feel like it and then in 18 months they are flying high again. That is what happened to many of my family members who worked in the airline industry. Their pensions were wiped off significantly- thirty cents on the dollar. Plus you have to pay for your own health insurance.
http://money.cnn.com/2005/04/20/pf/bankruptcy_bill/
Not to worry about the pension mess, the Illinois legislature is busy de-criminalizing marijuana. Just to let you know where their priorities are. Another useless fucking bill sponsored by the democrats.
These bastards just have no intention of paying their bills. They are absolutely determined to steal our pensions. It really is ridiculous. If they get away with this, there's going to be hell to pay.
You see, the sociopaths (the politicians and corporate chiefs) love to follow the rule of law when it benefits them and we are on the losing side. But then when the rule of law is on the side of working folks and they lose, they won't accept that. When that happens, this is what they do- 1. They change the rules of the game. They just go ahead and change the law. They usually call it "reform". We just had health care "reform" and now we will have pension "reform". Oh and they are on their way to do some immigration "reform". 2. If they can't change the law then they just ignore it. They are above the law while you and I have to abide by it. This creates a crisis. One they made in the first place. The crisis goes to the tipping point and then say "see, it is unsustainable and not realistic" to enforce these rules, regulations and laws. We simply can't do it. 3. If the above two don't work, then they have one more trick. You see, they just "interpret" the law differently. That is all. They have a different "view point".
With all the states and cities going broke, how can we still have money for foreign aid?
I don't see anyway around it... A bunkuptcy is the only way out..the numbers are too big... it will take way more than a property tax increase; amoung other fees and increases... they don't want to do it because of all the corruption that would come to light - but I say this: it will give the city a clean start and will do some good.. like it or not - this is what your pols have done to you.. Detroit's slate was wiped clean so now economic development is happening there..
The city and state needs some TOUGH LOVE real bad - bankuptcy.. and term limits... no one in gov should be in office more than 2 terms...
I want to work less hours, not more. That said this schedule does not seem so bad.
schedule for Sheriffs Police is 3 on 2 off, 5 on 4 off. 10 hr days (1st-2100-0700, 2nd-0600-1600 and 3rd-1500-0100). Regular Days Off every week are either Monday/Tuesday or Thursday/Friday and every other Saturday/Sunday. It's an awesome schedule and good coverage. It's an extra 2 hours/day but well worth the 4 days off. Add 30hrs of time and get 9 days off, plenty of days for unannounced trip. Make it work for you, not THEM! Be safe.
5/21/2015 01:50:00 PM
"...You know what might work? Pension funds are essentially creditors - how about surrendering assets to the funds and allowing them to run the money-generating aspect of things for a while? The Chicago Police Department's O'Hare International Airport sounds catchy. Maybe the Chicago Fire Department's Navy Pier or the Chicago Teacher's Union McCormick Place Convention Center and Casino. They certainly couldn't do much worse than the city does at running the places and at least the massive amounts of revenue would be directed exactly where they should be in the first place instead of connected pockets."
But is it true that all those money making assets of the city have had liens placed on them by those "connected pockets."
This is the worst kind of theft and tyranny. This is why we must vote and keep Hillary from keeping up the Demo-Communist agenda.
While the idea may be tongue-in-cheek, it does appear to have some merit, SCC.
Here's my concern though, who would run the Chicago Police Department's O'Hare International Airport?
Dean Angelo?! Bwaaahaha!
This is Rahm posturing for the unions.
He wants more and more concessions. He's said from day 1 he wants pension "reform" aka givebacks. That's been one of his sole focuses since being Mayor. He wants us screwed out of our current pensions simply because he doesn't like them.
A better idea...
Cut all the welfare checks to illegals and lazy, worthless mofos who refuse to get a job and work and be a positive, contributing member of society, and direct all THAT money to cover the city and states' financial obligations.
It's a win, win....
You get people off welfare and back to work and get the pensions covered in the process.
I am sickened by the current state of this City,State and Country. We are so very vulnerable, people better wake up. Its Dec 6th and Sept 10th all over again.
My wife (a teacher) is among the many who were screwed over these past years by union idiots who took pension promises they shouldn't have, and politicians who buy votes with other people's money and spent what they should have been saving.
Bankruptcy will come, either to government units or the citizens they try to tax enough to make good on politicians' lies. When the dust settles it will be a long time before anyone accepts a politician's promise of future payments, whether that is a pension promise or the political entity asking for a loan.
Politicians and political government are inveterate deadbeats. Only fools loan money or their lives to such.
The solution is simple really...Stop electing the same JO's every time. And Don't depend what you don't have (borrowing), or wont have. Spend within your budget, like the rest of us peons.
This is a great idea. The unions should start filing liens on every revenue producing asset.
rahm is going forward with borrowing over $800 mil even though chicago bonds are in junk status...spend spend spend then declare bankruptcy,God help us!
But, thank God, our beloved Mayor Daley's pension is on sound footing!
How much is being spent for O'Hare announced yesterday by our mayor? New rental car garages, new concession areas, how about all the new (and most say not needed runways), what about the mayors announcement about starting the "high speed train" directly to the loop? How much?
Let them go bankrupt, Detroit set the precedent that God watches out for us first responders they are getting their pensions!
>>>>> "What this basically is saying is we have too much debt. We have too many liabilities. We need to keep the money in our classrooms or in our core public services, and the way to restructure is through the bankruptcy process," Lucci said. (Michael Lucci of the Illinois Policy Institute.) <<<<<
WRONG, 'Einstein'. The way you get out of a hole is to STOP DIGGING! Which means in English: stop the nonessential spending. And that should be no problem, you asshole(s). It's not in the Illinois Constitution that *we*, as in TAXPAYERS, have to give out Welfare. It's not in the Illinois Constitution that *we* have to have 200 goddamn state agencies handing out freebies -- most of which agencies duplicate services of some other f-king agency!! So ELIMINATE THEM, we can't afford all that generosity.
I'm not kidding on the number of agencies. Go to the state website and just take a good look. It's a goddamn mess with agency, after agency, after agency. It's so f--ked up that someone who actually NEEDS some **TEMPORARY HELP** -- temporary being the operative word -- will give up. Only the Professional Welfare Slugs know how navigate through all that bullshit (they learn that before they learn Long Division in school). So cut 'em, the good times are over.
And cut MEDICAID. Exclude medical care for anything that's a result of illegal activity. Life Insurance Companies do that as S.O.P. so why should taxpayers have to pay to keep criminals alive fuck 'em, and fuck the assholes in congress! Plus, If Gang-bangers thought they'd have to pay to treat their Gun Shot wounds, maybe they'd stop spaying bullets all over the city.
Lastly, eliminate all Nonessential State Employees, the ones that would still remain after eliminating agencies. I'll guarantee that at least 50% could go and no one would notice.
As a bonus, do these and Illinois' Bond Rating(s) would immediately increase, saving the state even more money. Oh, and it would also be no problem then to PAY THE PENSION MONEY that's owed.
I always thought that if an individual were to
file for bankruptcy, most lenders would not
issue any new loans for a period of five to seven
years.
Does this apply to corporations as well?
Hard to imagine any financial institution willing
to lend the city cash, knowing they have a history
Of not paying.
I'm pretty sure the city would have to show ALL
Their assets during a bankcrupcy hearing and
Sell off those assets to cover some of their financial
Obligations.
The Pols are caught in a quandary. They do not have the political will to cut programs, cut employees and hurt their benefactors. But, I am sure they fear bankruptcy with the opening of books, amount spent on nonsense and the like. And the road to kick the can down is almost at a dead end.
LMAO- Ha!! God these political clowns never cease to amaze me. Don't know about the state as a whole, but this city is a major financial engine with plenty of assets and revenue sources. They couldn't declare bankruptcy if they tried! Try to get into any one of the trendy or reputable fine dining establishments, bars, or entertainment venues on a weekend - long wait and tons of patrons blowing money there. And the city collects big time from all of that spending, and that's just one aspect of its income- a fraction of it. The city would be laughed out of court- you can't just waltz in and cry poor, you have to prove it with financial documents and disclosures- and we all know how forthcoming Chicago's administrative leaders are with disclosing such sensitive information, right??? This is just another tactic in their grand scam playbook to avoid paying their bills. This is no different from some idiot with a good paying job claiming he can't pay his mortgage, meanwhile he's contracted workers to build him a nice olympic size pool in his backyard-- city is doing the same thing. So if they want to go there, I say bring it! Get a bag of popcorn sit back and enjoy the circus!
Good idea SCC, but that would give us power. The city doesn't want any of us peons to have that.
One of two things will happen. The state constitution will be amended to allow for some form of adjustment in pension payouts to future beneficiaries, or the state will allow localities to declare bankruptcy and potentially just clear up their pension problems entirely through the federal courts as happened in Detroit.
maybe both.
SCC, been thinking about this. Have been waiting for you to post something. Im assuming you just didn't know about it. I sure hope so. Last week, I went to Washington DC for "Cop Week" to see my nephew (CPD) honored as a "Top Cop" in the country. 6 Chicago officers as well as roughly 24 others across the country were awarded "Top Cop" awards for thier heroism. VP Biden Spoke of thier bravery. Called each and every one of them out for thier heroism. I assumed the Sun Times, Trib and mainstream press would take a pass on such a great story, but I didn't expect you to pass it buy. Do some research. It's a shame you didn't recognize them.
It sure is a shame you didn't send anything to us in a timely manner, seeing as how you already know it didn't hit the papers, radio or television. Miss Cleo didn't call us either.
Ha! Miss Cleopatra! Call me now! Now excuse me while I roll on the floor laughing....
(OT) may this Omaha officer RIP and the savage who did this get death penalty and rot in hell!
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/22/kerrie-on-omaha-rallies-around-newborn-fallen-police-officer/
I'll take four ambulances in liew of my pension, it will be chief Bill calling the shots with my ambulance service
the city will allow the other funds to go belly up if the unions dont give in to rahms demands..the police and fire funds have to be funded thanks to, wait for it...quinn.
>>>Anonymous said...
Can you imagine the FOP Midway Airport, Dean Angeko Sr Director of Flying Shit? What could go wrong?
5/22/2015 02:57:00 AM<<<
Dean Angelo, Director at Midway Airport, is that what he was promised by Rahm for keeping FOP impotent during all this?
I wouldn't trust him to be a Ramp Ape.
I remember Rahm wanted to appoint another Pension Board member so the favor scale would tip in his direction. If the Pension (Police) was operated as a separate city entity, (Bd. of Pensions & Annuities) the budget would allow regular contributions, though subject to cuts and increases. But that won't happen.
The City has increased its agencies and those budgets beyond what obligations were needed to fund our Pension. Look it up. Every branch of the City has had an inflated budget, few were cut some 10 yrs ago, but all eventually returned to their original budget. And now with more staffing.
Who voted for Rahm-Rauner please stand up.
Anonymous said...
These bastards just have no intention of paying their bills. They are absolutely determined to steal our pensions. It really is ridiculous. If they get away with this, there's going to be hell to pay.
5/22/2015 06:59:00 AM
In the end, they will get away with it. What are you or anyone else going to do? Perhaps you will march around city hall. Then maybe do some internet petitions. Oh yes, that will change things our way. NOT!
Viva La Revolucion!
This is off topic and you may choose not to post it but it might make you smile. Regarding the arrests in the DC murders. A quote from the article is as follows:
"Also in 2010, Wint was arrested carrying a 2-foot-long machete and a BB pistol outside the American Iron Works headquarters, but weapons charges were dropped after he pleaded guilty to possessing an open container of alcohol.
Attorney Robin Ficker said Wint didn't seem violent when he defended him in earlier cases. "He's a very nice person," Ficker said."
Ah those defense attorneys are great judges of character.
Chicago will be the next Detroit
Social collapse is coming!!!
Hey Rauner the Bruce and the Rahmulan:
Pass a new law eliminating douple-dip circle-jerk pension nonsense.
Pass another law preventing active government employees from collecting a government pension concurrently.
And pass a law preventing gold-braid pension rip-offs. Base a pension on years of service in a position that was based on a competitive civil service examination such as Police Officer, Sergeant, Lieutenant, or Captain.
Amen.
Why not since we already have Vanecko Plumbing/Sewer Inspection LLC....Vanecko Building Supplies LLC...Vanecko Electrical Supply LLC...ETC...
But, thank God, our beloved Mayor Daley's pension is on sound footing!
5/22/2015 09:49:00 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You mean his pensionS. He gets three!
Rahm should have asked his buddy and mentor the Chief Thief Daley if he had any more brilliant financial advise for him. Hell if Daily got away with the major theft of pension money anything can happen. The world is Rahms oyster.
This why civil service employees should NEVER have been allowed to unionize.
You get the politicians promising the moon to get union money and votes, damn the consequences.
(OT) Wisconsin 107 mph chase through residential area wow dash cam
http://www.kenoshanews.com/news/107_mph_on_sheridan_road_police_video_details_highspeed_chase_482715976.html
Civilian time keepers.... fuck you. i remember the idiot they had in 015 years ago. Thought time and a half ment add a half hour on the end. You work six hours OT she gave you 6.5 hours pay.... you have to keep an eye on everything this city does. If you dont its on you.
No pension. No work.
In Detroit the police and fire retirees came out very well in the bankruptcy. Detroit sold off whatever assets it had left and with the sale of the Detroit Museum they were able to almost fully fund the pensions for police and fire. Chicago has tons of assets which would have to be sold off to fund our pensions.
You mean the sleepers on the pension board.
-----------------------------------
In your own situation, I would blame FOP for not calling the city out and demanding they pay the shortfall.
Boy does 6700 love to hear himself talk. He sounds like a mumbling idiot. T t t t t t oday junior.
Feds come in and shakeout under RICO. Seize and freeze all assets of the connected and pols. Shortfall eliminated and waste stopped. HAHAHAHAHA
Cut Welfare, Not Pensions
(OT) are you kidding us thugs? 4 year old shot in head in englewood?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-chicago-shootings-violence-20150522-story.html
All the extra patrols, coppers working overtime coppers everywhere and rahm says crime is down! Yesterday a 7 year old gunned down! Hire more police call in drone strikes to kill these terrorists gang members cowards this is ridiculous! Chirac pathetic city,
Legalize marijuana.
Anonymous said...
When you sit home on election day for decades, this is what you get. Daley, Madigan and Cullerton have stolen so much money, some of which was used to buy votes that this state is circling the drain. Sell and move while you can.
5/22/2015 06:27:00 AM
Cullerton, like a rat leaving a sinking ship is going to run for Duckworth's spot in Washington! Who is next?
"All the extra patrols, coppers working overtime coppers everywhere and rahm says crime is down! Yesterday a 7 year old gunned down! Hire more police call in drone strikes to kill these terrorists gang members cowards this is ridiculous! Chirac pathetic city,"
I love the drone strike idea.
I lov the wood keep it up boys and girls
Does anyone know Disability Dean's plan regarding the city's pension plan for us?
cut gold braid exempt pensions no one should be getting 145,000 when retired.
And yet the limp dicks continue to elect Democrats. Go figure. Think there's a connection? This says a lot about the quality of the lowest common denominator voters and politicians who made this mess.
Bankruptcy is when you CAN'T pay your bills not for when you WON'T pay your bills.
Hit the money box boys and gals
Go bankrupt lots to sell eBay is cheap to auction stuff, we have city hall, museums, McCormick place, how much more? "Delicious batman" as the joker would say! They open the books the Daley crime family goes directly to jail do not pass city hall! On another note didn't dean promise to open the FOP books once elected? We're the tax filings dean? Liar Mike Shields at least spoke out you are you scared?
Cops are being demonized nationwide for a particular reason; the ruling class socialists want to raid the public pension funds.
The socialists spat upon returning Vietnam veterans, and twenty years later the country apologized for that despicable display. It's now taboo even for the socialists to say anything against the troops (think how they say they're against the war, but support the troops.) We know they still despise the troops, but they can't say it out loud.
It's enormously unpopular to be the police today, but when these socialists play out their hand, the American people will see what they did and apologize in a similar manner. Doesn't help you now, but keep the faith. You're doing God's work.
Anonymous said...
When you sit home on election day for decades, this is what you get. Daley, Madigan and Cullerton have stolen so much money, some of which was used to buy votes that this state is circling the drain. Sell and move while you can.
5/22/2015 06:27:00 AM
Cullerton, like a rat leaving a sinking ship is going to run for Duckworth's spot in Washington! Who is next?
5/23/2015 07:22:00 AM
Wrong Cullerton. It's his third cousin.
The state does not always pay their bills and there is nothing the person owed can do, so, they do not need to declare bankruptcy, they just simply send a letter saying we are only paying from this period to this period, everything else is not going to get paid. Thank you. State of Illinois
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