Wednesday, February 18, 2009

Rifles?

Not that we regularly read the New York Times, but this article made sense and points to a glaring flaw in the recent CPD regarding rifles:
  • The basic concept is that hitting several targets at once, even with just a few fighters at each site, can cause fits for elite counterterrorist forces that are often manpower-heavy, far away and organized to deal with only one crisis at a time. This approach certainly worked in Mumbai, India, last November, where five two-man teams of Lashkar-e-Taiba operatives held the city hostage for two days, killing 179 people. The Indian security forces, many of which had to be flown in from New Delhi, simply had little ability to strike back at more than one site at a time.
Al-Qaeda has been refining these types of attacks for several years according to the article - Kabul and Mumbai being the recent examples, but foreign compounds in Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, Turkey and Yemen have been the testing grounds.

While most police department SWAT teams are up to the task of a lone individual, lightly armed in an isolated setting with a hostage or two bent mostly on revenge or trapped following a botched action, we have our doubts that any police department in this country, big or small, is prepared to confront something like Mumbai where five two-man teams, heavily loaded with ammunition and a "mission," killed almost 200 people and wounded another 300 over the course of two days.

The obvious solution would be to train and equip a larger number of first responders with adequate firepower to suppress and eliminate such individuals. This alone would seem to negate the requirements being placed upon officers to pass physical test to shoot a rifle. Officers aren't carrying the rifle from a mile-and-a-half away - it's in their car. Officers aren't lifting fallen trees and breaking down doors to get the rifles into their hands - they're opening a trunk. We don't require this sort of nonsense to carry a pistol and that's an inherently more unstable platform than a long gun is.

Now we know we're going to be deleting a bunch of crap that's going to go along the lines of "You fatasses..." or "You want a rifle get in shape..." and "blah blah blah." Save it for the trolls and trollops at the bar - we'd rather have a shotgun anyway. The point we're trying to make is that the Department is deeming you expendable if you've been in two or three car wrecks, have some back problems from sitting in crappy squad car seats for 20 years, or have a bum knee from chasing or slipping or falling or just getting old.

We are all still expected to respond to the sound of gunfire, preserve life and defend citizens from whatever is out there or whatever comes to our city. Even if you've owned a shotgun or rifle for decades, served in the military, fill your deer tag every November and can clip a quail on the fly, if you can't pass an arbitrary test that has no discernible impact on your ability to evaluate situations and take proper police action, you are "unfit" to carry a rifle or shotgun that may save your life, your partner's life and the lives of countless citizens.

Labels:

112 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do FBI agents have to pass a physical test every year to be qualified to use a rifle?

2/18/2009 12:13:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Speaking of guns, check this out for those of you who are private gun owners!!!
Did you guys hear about this? I'm sure Bosephus bad ass will have this for his illegally obtained firearms. This could get expensive, does not sound like a typical Umbrella Liability policy. Has to be specific for gun owners.

How about needing 1 MILLION dollars liability insurance if you own a gun???
HB0687
96th General Assembly
House Sponsors
Rep. Kenneth Dunkin
Last Action
Date Chamber Action
2/6/2009 House Referred to Rules Committee
Statutes Amended In Order of Appearance
430 ILCS 65/4.5 new
430 ILCS 65/8 from Ch. 38, par. 83-8

Synopsis As Introduced
Amends the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act. Provides that any person who owns a firearm in this State shall maintain a policy of liability insurance in the amount of at least $1,000,000 specifically covering any damages resulting from negligent or willful acts involving the use of such firearm while it is owned by such person. Provides that a person shall be deemed the owner of a firearm after the firearm is lost or stolen until such loss or theft is reported to the police department or sheriff of the jurisdiction in which the owner resides. Provides that the Department of State Police shall revoke and seize a Firearm Owner's Identification Card previously issued under this Act if the Department finds that the person to whom such card was issued possesses or acquires a firearm and does not submit evidence to the Department of State Police that he or she has been issued in his or her name a liability insurance policy in the amount of at least $1,000,000 specifically covering any damages resulting from negligent or willful acts involving the use of such firearm while it is owned by such person. Effective January 1, 2010.
http://www.ilga.gov/legislatio...41158
"Andy", EM1 USN, Ret.
Disclaimer:
The poster does not take any responsibility for any bad feelings or sense of exclusion that the reader of this post may have-whether real or imagined. Reading threads poses inherent risks. The poster of this thread would like to also remind readers to make sure they have a functional sense of humor before they visit any discussion board.

2/18/2009 12:30:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

EACH DISTRICT should have heavy weapons cars, Can even be 2 designated rapids....but AT LEAST TWO per WATCH. 2 per watch per dist automatically gives 25 on the street at any given time, and 50 when the roll calls are both out...... And, really, what does it take? A trunk with a lock, a couple mp4s (which the dept already has), and some training (load it like this, point it like this, clean it like this, and leave it the hell in the trunk unless you really need it) ... But, then agian, I'm a non-clouted blue shirt, what the hell do I know...

2/18/2009 12:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I refuse to get a rifle, until the city claims I need it. I deserve it. But it would a 1000 civillian dead and about 40 cops to let city to allow me to have one. Or they could just put shotguns back in the car per Illinois law.

2/18/2009 12:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anyone remember one of those open forums where J-fed stated "I will give preference in training to those officers who are willing to go out and purchase their own rifles." another lie.

Daley does not want us to have rifles...

Meanwhile NYPD is simulating and training for a Mumbai type attack.

Wait til it happens here and the lawsuits start pouring from the victims of the attack that weren't protected by the undergunned, undertrained, unsupported CPD.

NY learned the hard way, you figure Shitcago could be a bit more proactive rather than wait til it's too late...

2/18/2009 12:54:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

right there with you, deer taken every fall. countless pheasant and geese on the table. but i need a coward to approve me taking out a long gun. pathetic.

2/18/2009 01:14:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

you are not gonna fix this department.....give it up allready.

2/18/2009 01:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Like every egotistical suit in a downtown office building who insisted after 9-11 that his building had to have security so al-Qaeda didn't hit it, you're overestimating Chicago's appeal.

This stuff makes sense in New York. We're not even the second city anymore, dude. As far as terrorist targets, it's NY, DC, LA. Nobody's gonna attack Chicago.

2/18/2009 01:28:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This thread has good points but is glaringly missing a dirty secret. The majority of Police Officers do NOT carry their weapons off duty. It should be mandatory and written into our general orders. Col. Dave Grossman is correct when he says that "We have a moral obligation to carry off duty" We are the front line defense against domestic terrorism whether its a Bombay, India type attack or Pookie trying to feed his crack habit. Just ask your fellow P.O.'s and you will be astounded how many walk around this shithole of a city with their families and are unarmed. How would you be able to live with yourself if something happened to you wife or children and you couldn't do anything because you were unarmed. Or worse, you kids watching daddy being executed by some gangbanger. Check out this article from Police One. http://www.policeone.com/police-products/duty-gear/holsters/articles/1647480-Instant-Response-Carry-off-duty/

2/18/2009 01:43:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe some of you older guys recall an incident on the north side many years ago when that idiot Leroy "the brain surgeon" Martin was at the helm of this ship of fools when he made us carry our revolver if you wanted to carry a semi-automatic pistol at the same time. He wouldnt allow you to carry just the semi-auto. It was a burden he placed on all officers wanting to have just a little extra firepower that he made them lug a six shot antiquated leg iron around probably because he was too stupid to handle a Glock that was given to him as a gift which he accidentally discharged upon taking it out of the case because it was loaded.(but thats another story). Two officers reponded to a hold-up at a currency exchange on the north side and when they walked in they were greeted by a couple of jagoffs armed with semi-auto pistols who not only proceeded to shoot up the currency exchange but also the two officers. We were so outgunned that jag-off Martin (or jack-off if you prefer)changed the weapons policy within days of that fiasco and why did he do that you ask? Because that brain dead piece of shit boss realized "hey...these bad guys have artillery we don't allow our guys to carry". Thus our new policy came about allowing us to carry just our semi-auto as our single weapon of choice. Now you might ask what does this have to do with now...today...possibly manana? This fair city always has to learn the hard way because our brain dead bosses will only see the problem after it has occurred. Make it difficult for your average P.O. to carry the carbine and when some group of jag-offs decide to Mumbai our city do you think anyone in his right mind is going to run into that situation holding a bullshit little semi-auto pistol in his hand? "Time" is of the essence in those situations and "time" will not be on our side. So keep the training and your carbines locked up in the radio room and if and when the spectacle of blood and human sacrifice starts to unfold mayor shortshanks and his band of merry idiots can then come to the same conclusion that Leroy came to many years ago which was "maybe we should give them better firepower". Only after something horrible happens will the lights go on. Those stupid fuck bosses will then sit down an "talk" about how we can avoid this situation in "the future". This city will need some officers with a little bit of brains and some balls to stave off a terrorist attack which ultimately might kill hundreds if not thousands of innocents. Unfortunately it will probably be a case of "too little...too late" hopefully I will have retired before anything like this happens and if it did J-pud would just get into his SUV and ride off into the sunset and tell shortshanks "I did my best....see you later". Ah...the city that works".

2/18/2009 02:10:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That's why I stay at home.

2/18/2009 02:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This Dept. is a joke! I just qualified my second time with the M-4 but I'm still not authorized to carry it! The program started over a year ago and I have spent a lot of money for nothing! More lies from the brass more BS same old same old! Never trust the leadership all they do is lie!!!!!

2/18/2009 02:53:00 AM  
Blogger lathrop one said...

Until there is an event such as the LA bank robbery where CPD is clearly outgunned on National TV then maybe some thought will be given to arming Beat Cars,rapids,06 and tac units appropriately. These restrictions (physical condition) are INSANE.An M-4 requires 5.2 pounds of pressure on the trigger to fire. I know of no PT course that excersizes fingers.Excepting the finger i routinely extend towards 35th and michigan when I drive by.
Of course when more emphasis is given to an appearance award than to actual tactical training I can see where Jody thinks hes making a sound decision. Instead of ballistic shields maybe we can use him at the next HBT event.

2/18/2009 05:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If I need a rifle there will be plenty laying on the ground if something kicks off, and my 11 years of carrying one in the military is all the training i need fuck that stupid power test I will never take it and I'm not fat!! Carrying a carbine is an option not a privledge u corky looking J-Pud

2/18/2009 05:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This stuff makes sense in New York. We're not even the second city anymore, dude. As far as terrorist targets, it's NY, DC, LA. Nobody's gonna attack Chicago.

Except for the fact Chicago is bidding on the Olympics, Chicago is the home of the current President of the United States and Chicago is the birthplace of the Atomic Bomb, there isn't one bit of symbolism to be gained in attacking Chicago. What peace loving islamic terrorist would even think of putting Chicago on his "to-do" list.?

2/18/2009 06:50:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How about needing 1 MILLION dollars liability insurance if you own a gun???
-------
Should only cost a couple of hundred a year.........

2/18/2009 06:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

While I'm not saying CPD shouldn't get more rifle usage I do want to point out there are three military police units in this state and, while not overseas, they can mobilize very fast. Most of the military police officers have been to SRT school. The only problem is the governor has to make it happen and that might an usually long time.

2/18/2009 07:09:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That's the clearest argument against the POWER test I've seen. All you have to do now, SCC, is print that on a letter and mail it to J-Fed. I'm sure he'll see the point and issue rifles right away.

2/18/2009 07:14:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This stuff makes sense in New York. We're not even the second city anymore, dude. As far as terrorist targets, it's NY, DC, LA. Nobody's gonna attack Chicago.

___________________________________

The Sears Tower was supposed to fall on 9/11 as well but the grounding of flights probabaly prevented that from happening and it still remains a target. Keep drinking the Daley kool aid sheep.

2/18/2009 07:15:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I haven't been trained to change a flat, I also didn't have to take a power test, yet it is my responsability to change any flat on squad cars.

So I will safely egress the area of an active shooter and wait for SWAT. That includes any school.

2/18/2009 07:31:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"It should be mandatory and written into our general orders."


It isn't mandatory because there were a lot of drunken off duty incidents- areas around police bars with not a lot of street lights left.

2/18/2009 07:46:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rumor or fact? The city is considering making any officer taking the power test to carry the M-4 sign a waiver in case the officer is injured or dies while taking the test.

2/18/2009 07:58:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This city is a joke! NYPD and LAPD have new contracts, rifles, shotguns, new Dodge Chargers and real leadership....what do we have?...No contract, No rifles, No shotguns, old shitty cars and absolutely NO leadership.

2/18/2009 07:59:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't much care how far a cop can run or whether he can do an arbitary number of situps.

Putting shotguns in squad cars makes a lot of sense to me. Some buckshot for normal encounters and a few boxes of slugs for longer range shooting.

I am less convinced that every cop needs a rifle in his squad, but it does not offend me a whole bunch.

I would want to see some demonstrated level of competency with either before a shotgun or rifle is issued. And that would require a lot of money be spent on training that the department may not have. And who is going to patrol the streets while all these guys go get trained?

2/18/2009 08:24:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

See, you get qualified and if shit happens into the crap you will go. No thanks, I don't want an M-4. Besides they will never let you fire it at the aggressors. (need an order from a lt. or above)

2/18/2009 08:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Make it difficult for your average P.O. to carry the carbine and when some group of jag-offs decide to Mumbai our city do you think anyone in his right mind is going to run into that situation holding a bullshit little semi-auto pistol in his hand? "

2/18/2009 02:10:00 AM
----------------------------------

Sadly enough my brother in blue, you and I both know there will be quite a few P.O.'s that will run in and try to do what's right and unfortunately the outcome will be tragic. Fuck you mayor dickhead, fuck your power test jody weiss, and fuck you to the alderscum and rev's that destroyed this once great city.

2/18/2009 08:33:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can remember Inspectors writing up POs for carrying speed loaders on the uniform belt. The drop pouch was uniform spec and that's all you could use.

2/18/2009 08:36:00 AM  
Anonymous Ab Old Sergeant said...

Re: Rifles
The ST this morning carried an ad for the 10 o'clock news on Channel 5 (?)tonight. Ann Davlantes (sp?) reporting. The gist of the ad was that the M4 is the weapon of choice for gang bangers, and now the police are going to have them. This oughta be fun. . .

2/18/2009 08:42:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I like how the range guys teaching the long gun class cant even pass the power test. Except for Sgt. B

2/18/2009 08:43:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well said, If you have a situation where there is an assailant shooting at citizens with say an AK,AR,or SKS "Don't Go" wait for the properly equiped personnel. What good are you going to do anyone especially your family DEAD. Remember your training, SHIELDING, DISTANCE & MOVEMENT. You can't get close enuff to do anything with that pea shooter you have. you are better off running them over with your vehicle.

2/18/2009 08:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

01:28, your an idiot if you think Chicago isn't a target for terrorists.

Kids, we'll never get the toys we need until after the fact. Right now, smoke and mirrors works for the sheep. Let's hope for our sake they pick another city to strike but, Chicago being home to the president would be a world wide shocker. Make sure you protect your own first.

HB 0687 is a dangerous bill. We must make sure it doesn't pass. It's not about insurance, it's about money and taking guns from people. We must ask, What insurance interests (family or friends) do the sponsors of the bill have? Does Ken Dunkin have family or friends that sell insurance? Just a thought.

2/18/2009 08:52:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Concealed carry works. Do you think terrorists would try this sort of thing in Texas, Utah, Colorado or Florida? No? Because it wouldn't work there. Law-abiding citizens would cut them down before they got too many shots off.
Here on the other hand, we have to wait for you guys (short on manpower and firepower). I shouldn't have to depend on some cop to save my life - and let's face it, when shit hits the fan, you're going to want as much backup on the scene as you can get whether it's your brothers in blue or a taxpaying citizen.

Why are we disarmed, again?

2/18/2009 08:55:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

$1,000,000 specifically covering any damages resulting from negligent or willful acts involving the use of such firearm while it is owned by such person.

Regular Liability Insurance never covers willful acts. If this passes it will be very expensive to get.

2/18/2009 08:56:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Col. Dave Grossman is correct when he says that "We have a moral obligation to carry off duty" We are the front line defense against domestic terrorism whether its a Bombay, India type attack or Pookie trying to feed his crack habit. Just ask your fellow P.O.'s and you will be astounded how many walk around this shithole of a city with their families and are unarmed.

The Col. is correct. Its to bad he is not our leader. Lets see! trained leader, combat proven, mentally sound, approachable. I can go on, and I only attended his class. No! we stuck with captain retard and crew. I stopped carring off duty, God only knows if I had to use it I would be hung on a cross at 35th street by J-Fuck.

2/18/2009 08:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How about needing 1 MILLION dollars liability insurance if you own a gun???
-------
Should only cost a couple of hundred a year.........

2/18/2009 06:51:00 AM

**********************

Not the point, you idiot. The point is that the amount of damage caused by law-abiding gun owners, INCLUDING police, is relatively minor compared to the damage done by criminals with illegally-obtained weaponry, who are not going to get insurance. This is two things: an infringement on the 2nd amendment, and 2) a scam to give more money to insurance companies who offer unnecessary coverage.

Part of being a gun owner is being responsible. The only people being irresponsible are people who get their guns illegally, and use them illegally. Are they really going to get insurance for the crimes they commit?

2/18/2009 09:00:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

See story on NBC 5 tonight.

2/18/2009 09:05:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Taking a power test prior to being authorized to carry a rifle is just dumb. However, ensuring all officers are physically fit to do their job is not dumb. Every officer from the top down, should be required to pass a basic physical fitness test each year. Many officers do need to get out of their squads and chase suspects. Many officers have to fight and wrestle with the animals. Just drawing your weapon is a very stressful on your body, (not physically but mentally) and I would not want an officer to have a heart attack on the streets. Bottom line is stay healthy so that you can keep yourself safe and be there to protect your partner.

2/18/2009 09:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why cant I carry my tactocal shotgun I have at home at work? I would qualify every year and carry it every day. its my property City has to pay for nothing. I am armed and they get it free!

2/18/2009 09:49:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So how are swarms to be countered? The simplest way is to create many more units able to respond to simultaneous, small-scale attacks and spread them around the country. This means jettisoning the idea of overwhelming force in favor of small units that are not “elite” but rather “good enough” to tangle with terrorist teams. In dealing with swarms, economizing on force is essential.

2/18/2009 10:00:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SS youa re thinking too much. STOP IT NOW!

2/18/2009 10:06:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Meanwhile NYPD is simulating and training for a Mumbai type attack.
================

That is a good idea, BUT I'm sure the training will be watched and studied by Al Q sleeper cells.

You don't need to go crazy. The Dept should rent CHALLENGE PARK paint ball heaven and pit tact team versus tact team!

Sh!t, it aint hard: All one really has to to watch Saving Private Ryan (jk)

Step one: COVERING FIRE!

Step two: flanking maneuver

Step two and a half: Pray to god your sniper has a good eye.

2/18/2009 10:12:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Strange.....I'm a civilian, I've never been in the military, yet I didn't have to pass any kind of physical test when I bought my A4.

Are you able to procure/use your own rifles?

2/18/2009 10:21:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

at some point, after massive regulation, it will be easyer for the average citizen to purchase a gun illigally on the black market.
it seems to work pretty good for the bad guys and this way you avoid traceabillity.
while at it one might as well ignore not just the latest law and buy a smg or set up a hush puppy or get that handy 14" pump.
it's like when they put a stop sign at every block or set the speed limit too low.
eventually people see the law as complete and toal bullshit and ignore it alltogether.

2/18/2009 10:38:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ILL. BILL REQUIRES GUN OWNERS TO HAVE $1M LIABILITY
COVERAGE . . .

Surprise - Surprise!!! A black Chicago Democrat politician who
HAPPENS to sit on the state INSURANCE committee introduces a bill REQUIRING insurance. Welcome to Ilinois politics.

Here's the state site with his bio:
http://www.ilga.gov/house/Rep.asp?MemberID=1450

2/18/2009 10:54:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"This stuff makes sense in New York. We're not even the second city anymore, dude."

Without even getting into Obama or the Olympics, it's called the Mercantile Exchange,
"CME has the largest options and futures contracts open interest (number of contracts outstanding) of any futures exchange in the world. Revenue $1.09 billion USD (2006)"
Yeah 'Dude' nobody would want to fuck with that. Dumbass.

2/18/2009 10:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SCC,

I know it pains you to link to anything in the NYT, but just fess up. One of your five faithful readers, that would be me, sent you the story.

Some people will spend two hours a day watching or reading about sports. Others devote their time to seeing if anything new has happened in the world of porn. Others, that would likely only be me, spend a few hours a day reading news from around the world. Then I MIGHT check out some porn.........purely for informational purposes only.

As for sports, I don't even believe these Blackhawks you speak of actually even exist.

2/18/2009 11:33:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Grossman NEVER WAS IN COMBAT

2/18/2009 11:38:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I JUST HIDE BEHIND HUBERMAN ITS SAFER THAT WAY!!! BUT FOR GUNS I JUST LET JUICEMAN JFED LEAD THE WAY-SEMPER FI

2/18/2009 11:40:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

First rule of a gunfight: Have a gun !!!!

Oh, wait I can't have one because Mayor Daley says Im safe with all those fancy laws with the big words protecting me.

I have a sort off topic question....
You guys in patrol...

I get pulled over in my car and for what ever reason you boys and girls want to search my car. Before you do I tell you of my loaded hand gun in the center console or even if the clip is out but ready to go.
Now I know the rules and laws of SchiTago.
Im sober.
Honest about it.
I show you my FOID card.
The serial numbers are cleary not tampered with or filed away.
The gun is clearly legal in 48 of 50 states.
I happen to be a fellow city worker.
Im not a smart ass but nice since my brothers are the police.
Im just scarred off getting killed over my K-swiss or my car.
No reason to see me as a criminal but for speeding or something stupid like that.

I just had it with me just in case.

What would you guys really do ?

2/18/2009 11:49:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Every MSF team member is MANDATED by direct order to pass the POWER test quarterly to carry the carbine. If they fail to comply with the order, they will be dismissed and sent back to their prior unit. There is no exception and this is told to all team members from the moment they arrive. All team members MUST meet height and weight requirements. No obese persons shall be allowed to carry the rifle.

The current agenda of MSF is to get each and every team member qualified to carry the rifle. Also, since MSF lost almost 20 members it is a essential that they fill those slots.

Do not worry about MSF. They aren't going anywhere. They are only getting better.

2/18/2009 11:50:00 AM  
Anonymous DAve said...

Sorta o/t but mebbe not:

http://www.phillymag.com/articles/the_radicals_among_us/

Be careful out there-

2/18/2009 12:06:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

2/18
2:10am
Not a very good explanation of that incident at the currency exchange. One po got shot inside the other got shot outside. And long before and after Leroy Martin we always had to carry the revolver as a primary weapon even though we qualified with automatics or big bore revolvers.

2/18/2009 12:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Every sworn member of this department should be trained and qualify with an M4.

The LAPD learned the hard way about being undergunned on the street in North Hollywood a while back, will it take something like that to occur here?

Time for Frank, Fran, Larry pick up this ball and run with it.

2/18/2009 12:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Would this insurance be tax deductible as a duty related expense? As for carrying off-duty, its a choice. Off-duty the most I'll do is call 911 and perhaps be a good witness.

2/18/2009 12:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It was mentioned before and is worth mentioning again.

Every Illinois State Trooper, Sergeant and Master Sergeant on patrol in ISP Disticr Chicago was given a rifle and trained with it. We qualify every year. We have shotguns too! We cover 'active shooter situations" in training every year. Some of our men and women could use a membership to the health club. But they still were given one and trained. We have gulf war vets (1991) carrying them and they are not 6 min mile runners.

Point is:
Most often the show of force or even knowing what force the police have will deter crime. If CPD was to respond with rifles out, everyone would notice and re-think their ways. Get the skills needed to survive. Get the skills to end an "active shooter" situation. School shootings, mall shootings, any shootings need everyone trained and ready to go in to save the innocent people being slaughtered. That's my job and for most men and women of CPD it is yours too. I fully support your need for patrol rifles.

Chicago Trooper

2/18/2009 12:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pretty much all I want to do is survive until I can get off this job.

Really, Im not charging into any Mumbai situation. With or without a rifle, "and it'll be without". 25years on this job inflicted to much of a physical beating and Im not about to take any kind of test just to carry a rifle.

I feel sorry for you who choose to. I'm a vet and ask any vet here what would happen should this chickenshit/clout outfit have to go against trained rifle teams with HP rifles, explosives, and the high ground.

Better yet look around the room at roll call and ask yourself. We would be F-U-C-K-E-D!

2/18/2009 12:43:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OT:

Avoid liability insurance.

It only encourages lawsuits against you. Once a lawyer knows you have that much insurance available, you will be a defendant on any and every lawsuit you come close to.

It also discourages these scumbags from settling suits with the city, when they know you still have a million bucks lying on the table. In this current climate, its much easier for a lawyer to prove you're a rogue officer rather than proving the city failed to supervise you.

These scumbags want money from the city, not you, because they know its going to be hard to get money from you. That is the reason they often DROP officers from suits, so the juries don't stack up punitive damages against the officer instead of piling up compensatory damages against the city.

But, its not hard to get money from you if you hold a big insurance policy.

Rather than getting insurance, its better to just avoid situations that lead to lawsuits, like arrests.

2/18/2009 12:47:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How about needing 1 MILLION dollars liability insurance if you own a gun???
-------
Should only cost a couple of hundred a year.........

2/18/2009 06:51:00 AM

Then you wouldn't mind picking up mine, would you? Just FYI, if your a copper and you don't have an umbrella policy, consider it.

2/18/2009 01:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

long guns? we cannot even secure our own court houses or police stations. yesterday on 17 feb 09, around noon, there was a shooting in the 005th district parking lot, right in front on 111th street as people were coming out of court!! one person received a nonfatal wound. no one in custody. the media has not reported how unsafe it is to go to court now, for either victims, the accused or the police. how is that for officer safety? how would that look for the olympic committee when we cannot even secure the court houses or our own police stations from escalating crime here. media was notified but havent seen any news on it. be safe out there.

2/18/2009 01:20:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OT: Look at this BS story:

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/02/cops-probe-video-of-officer-removing-bus-passenger.html

How the fuck are we supposed to do our jobs? Let people shit all over us? Police the city with hugs and smiles? This officer did NOTHING wrong. All the police haters who think this is brutality lets see you deal with these ghetto animals day in and day out and I'm sure you could clean up the city with nothing but kindness! Some civilians have no fucking idea what it takes to deal with this shit. If this officer gets fucked for this, I am done working until retirement.

2/18/2009 01:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"We are all still expected to respond to the sound of gunfire, preserve life and defend citizens from whatever is out there or whatever comes to our city."

Exactly SCC regardless of age injuries and time on the job.

2/18/2009 01:43:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just heard about off duty sergeant from 017 and a womans suicide its in the tribune, any more info.

2/18/2009 02:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We can thank the C/O of the "Policy Group" for this brilliant testing platform to decides who is best able to handle long guns. THANKS RAY.
Love the new 10 hour schedule up here at area 3. Driving to my PTJ this morning SB on LSD a little after 0900,guess who I see in his unmarked car drive right past a two car crash, so absorbed in his blackb erry that he didn't even bother to call it in? You got it, Mr. POLICY GROUP. What a guy!

2/18/2009 02:58:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You may want to check this out.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,494424,00.html

There is said to be 35 Muslim training camps within the US. Buy the rifles yourself, you may need them in the future.

2/18/2009 03:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
How about needing 1 MILLION dollars liability insurance if you own a gun???
-------
Should only cost a couple of hundred a year.........

2/18/2009 06:51:00 AM

How about it should cost NOTHING!!!
Do the words "shall not be infringed" ring a bell??

2/18/2009 03:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.officer.com/web/online/Top-News-Stories/NYPD-Trains-for-Mumbai-Style-Terrorist-Attack/1$45412

Like we sent anyone to Mumbai to look at we should do!

We're too busy finding out who faxed a fake honorable mention.

2/18/2009 04:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let see....second amendment guarantee the right bear arms- if you have the insurance to back up an accident...

Does that mean people should also have insurance to protect them if they exercise their first amendment speech and someone sues them?

Anyone know if this state leader is tied to the insurance industry?

2/18/2009 04:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Melancton Smith said...

The obvious solution would be to train and equip a larger number of first responders with adequate firepower to suppress and eliminate such individuals.

You mean second responders. I agree with training and equiping police, but let's also empower the real first responders...the victims.

IL HB2257!

2/18/2009 04:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shortshanks and the "braintrust" at City Hall and Fort Fellatio believe that rifles and shotguns are "too intimidating" for Chicago sensibilities.

2/18/2009 04:58:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SCC said everything that needs to be said. Shitcago gets shortshanked again !

2/18/2009 05:44:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I remember the old CPD back up gun policy...guys bought the colt commander and carried it hammmer down, empty chamber over a full magazine of hardball. Not all the guns would feed hollowpoints in those days. Combat Commander and lightweight commanders, shortened 1911 .45 pistols. Also some S&W DA/SA 9mms. This was thought up when not all pistols had the firing pin locks.

2/18/2009 06:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This joke of a department can't do anything right. The riffle program stated nearly a year ago or maybe even longer, right? I have had to qualify twice now with the riffle and I'm still not able to carry it! What a fuckn waste! What's the problem here? The range guys have been putting classes through for a long time now but we still can't carry them. We have had the silly trunk rack put in but still can't carry. I'm sure the main problem is that the lawyers haven't decided yet if it's a good idea legally. Does anyone have any insight to whats going on?

2/18/2009 06:41:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

does the Policy Group get Take Home cars? Please Expert Raymond Hamilton do tell

2/16/2009 05:07:00 PM

Yes, ask crazy Ray. While you're at it ask him what he does to warrant him having a take home car, his policy group getting 8 hours of overtime every week, and crqazy Ray getting Lt's pay. All are very good questions.

2/18/2009 08:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What would you guys really do ?

2/18/2009 11:49:00 AM


IT DEPENDS ! WHAT IS YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS ?

;-)

2/18/2009 08:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Do FBI agents have to pass a physical test every year to be qualified to use a rifle?

2/18/2009 12:13:00 AM

Yes, we actually have to pass an annual physical to keep our job.

2/18/2009 08:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OT: Look at this BS story:

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/02/cops-probe-video-of-officer-removing-bus-passenger.html

How the fuck are we supposed to do our jobs? Let people shit all over us? Police the city with hugs and smiles? This officer did NOTHING wrong. All the police haters who think this is brutality lets see you deal with these ghetto animals day in and day out and I'm sure you could clean up the city with nothing but kindness! Some civilians have no fucking idea what it takes to deal with this shit. If this officer gets fucked for this, I am done working until retirement

chicago cop watch dot org.

2/18/2009 08:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, some of the best shooters I have ever seen were pretty fat. That spare tire makes an excellent shooting platform in the prone.

2/18/2009 08:44:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have told anyone reading the comment boxes. Grieve it! Let them refuse to and grieve. And when it happens here in Chicago. The politicians can explain the policy to the pissed off public.

2/18/2009 08:44:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

if we would nee insurance to own a handgun or rifle, what about a million+ policy to own a pit-bull, any dog over 10 lbs, a chimpanzee, [no Daley or J.P.W. Jokes please] a motorcycle, auto, suv, drawer full of steak knives, a bow and arrow, slingshot, etc; etc; etc? And as if Pookie, Mookie, Butterball, and Woo-Woo would buy an insurance policy anyway, before they went out to do their banging, robbing, and killing. It's just a way to disarm the law-abiding, as usual. What the fuck is this Representative Dunkin Smoking,??? the fuckin Commie DOPE !!!

2/18/2009 09:06:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Get more shotgun, more shotguns,Moooooooe shotguns, the cut-down Fed kind the Marshals use. If that don't do it, call in the National Guard.
Daley squats to pee......

2/18/2009 09:09:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

...As for carrying off-duty, its a choice. Off-duty the most I'll do is call 911 and perhaps be a good witness.

2/18/2009 12:25:00 PM

I've been retired for several years.

I have never registered to carry my weapon as a retired law enforcement officer. I don't feel the need to notify the government of my plans or to pay them for it.

I will not provide free services to this mayor or this city. Though on rare occasions, I do carry my weapon, I find that I am out and about less and less these days, and NEVER venture into more dangerous areas, (yes I know shit CAN jump off anywhere).

I do not see any PO even discovering I'm carrying, and will count on professional courtesy in any case where it may happen,(as questionable as that may sound).

.

2/18/2009 09:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

LeRoy Martin, now There Was a True Idiot, if I ever saw one.

2/18/2009 09:16:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

TO: 11:49 am;
you would get locked up by me, cause you are: #1: breaking the law, #2-probably a patronage worker who thinks the Law doesn't apply to you, and, further, #3- YOU are NOT THE POLICE. If you don't like that answer, move away, or GFYS, or both.

2/18/2009 09:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well said, If you have a situation where there is an assailant shooting at citizens with say an AK,AR,or SKS "Don't Go" wait for the properly equiped personnel. What good are you going to do anyone especially your family DEAD. Remember your training, SHIELDING, DISTANCE & MOVEMENT. You can't get close enuff to do anything with that pea shooter you have. you are better off running them over with your vehicle.

2/18/2009 08:51:00 AM

I would, but with 90K+ miles, it would fall apart upon impact with the shooter.

2/18/2009 09:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OT:

Avoid liability insurance.

It only encourages lawsuits against you. Once a lawyer knows you have that much insurance available, you will be a defendant on any and every lawsuit you come close to.

It also discourages these scumbags from settling suits with the city, when they know you still have a million bucks lying on the table. In this current climate, its much easier for a lawyer to prove you're a rogue officer rather than proving the city failed to supervise you.

These scumbags want money from the city, not you, because they know its going to be hard to get money from you. That is the reason they often DROP officers from suits, so the juries don't stack up punitive damages against the officer instead of piling up compensatory damages against the city.

But, its not hard to get money from you if you hold a big insurance policy.

Rather than getting insurance, its better to just avoid situations that lead to lawsuits, like arrests

___________________________________

Umbrella Policies will save you and your families from financial ruin.
Get your hands on a monthly Cook Co Jury Reporter, litigated settlements are averaging between $250-450K.
Yeah, it is true that once a scumbag lawyer finds out you've got the umbrella a good chunk will be taken out, if not all, but the $200-400 bucks a year sure beats paying a big chunk out of your income for the next 15-20 years.
You'll still be on any suit an attorney can get you on but the important thing is protecting your own assets-for the future when you're not dealing with these assholes on a daily basis.

2/18/2009 09:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I attended TARA one year ago and they warned of these attacks. Some hours I was bored but most of the instructors preached these type of attacks was immient.

2/18/2009 09:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In the old days we all used shotguns and they were very effective. I can tell you from expierence that it did the job very well and was suited for urban environment. I don't remember why they stopped using them, I was off the job then. 00 mag buck trust me it's all you need.

2/18/2009 09:49:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Could not find a workable link to any 'million' dollar reqirement for gun owners. Read the last lines of the post....sounds like a joke to me!:

Disclaimer:
The poster does not take any responsibility for any bad feelings or sense of exclusion that the reader of this post may have-whether real or imagined. Reading threads poses inherent risks. The poster of this thread would like to also remind readers to make sure they have a functional sense of humor before they visit any discussion board.

2/18/2009 12:30:00 AM

2/18/2009 10:11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"What would you guys really do ?

2/18/2009 11:49:00 AM"


Your asking strongly suggests that you're too fucking stupid to pack heat.

2/18/2009 10:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I like how the range guys teaching the long gun class cant even pass the power test. Except for Sgt. B

2/18/2009 08:43:00 AM

Put the vodka bottle down Dan B., your already swollen head can't get any bigger. I like the alleged fact that more "assault weapons" were recovered this year already, than last. BS. Also 10 coppers shot last year is about avg.

2/18/2009 10:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Caution: The following message contains information that could shock some readers of this post.
The Mayor of Second City Does Not Give A Rats Ass About his police officers having assault rifles.
The Mayor has made no effort in training the first responders of this city. If a 911 situation happened the fire trucks etc. would have a difficult,if not impossible, time trying to get around flower pots. Many lives of first responders would be lost, due to his failure to provide training and equipment in these areas. He expects you to kind of just handle it, as it develops.
Just Be Sure To Stick Together,and help one another, when it happens.
Remember the message Napolian sent back to France after his defeat in Russia "The Grand Army Has Been Defeated,And Is In Rags,Your Emperor Is Safe and Well"
PS: Have A Nice Day.

2/18/2009 11:22:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NBC 5 had the serial rapist story leading tonight and they also had on some self-defense expert on that was talking about all the things you could do to prevent a rape.

It would be nice if my girlfriend could legally protect herself with a Glock 26 over some knife wielding scumbag rapist, over just pushing away and screaming at the top of her lungs.

I wish the media would realize no one pays attention to either car alarms or women screaming in the middle of the night.

As far as the liability insurance BS, what is the chances I could sue the state of Illinois for at least 1+ million dollars since they didn't make sure the scumbag who bought his gun on the black market didn't have his/her liability insurance?

2/18/2009 11:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To: 2/18/2009 11:49:00 AM,
Have fun on the bus ride to county.
If you are carrying your handgun in the manner which have described, then you sir are a criminal.
What the state laws don't apply to you because you are a city worker, or a nice guy, or polite, or any of the other inane reasons that you gave.

2/18/2009 11:55:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

>>>LeRoy Martin, now There Was a True Idiot, if I ever saw one.

2/18/2009 09:16:00 PM<<<

You forgot to add racist. I made it my mission in life to see that he failed when he ran for Cook County Sheriff. He has since been replaced by Charlie Williams.

2/19/2009 12:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Just heard about off duty sergeant from 017 and a womans suicide its in the tribune, any more info.

2/18/2009 02:32:00 PM
--------
Why yes Mr/Ms Reporter, there is more info. But nobody is going to give it to you on here.

2/19/2009 12:59:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To: 2/18/2009 11:49:00 AM,


In the old days probably, but now with in-car cameras and microphones, and J-Fed snitches, and IAD set-ups I'd be real worried.

But there is hope, downstate legislators are trying to pass a concealed carry law here. It will be a hard sale but the fact that some politicians pal is going to make money selling insurance just made it more possible. So support that law, and vote against everything Shortshanks stands for. Join the underground movement and bring your friends to derail the Olympics, elect Republicans and seek any information that might put a sitting dishonest politician in the jail.

2/19/2009 01:00:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
How about needing 1 MILLION dollars liability insurance if you own a gun???
-------
Should only cost a couple of hundred a year.........

2/18/2009 06:51:00 AM

How about it should cost NOTHING!!!
Do the words "shall not be infringed" ring a bell??

2/18/2009 03:51:00 PM
--------
If you have anything of value, it's not a bad idea to have an umbrella policy. The assholes have nothing to lose, most of us do. If you find a place that will insure you for nothing, please post. If you feel having insurance infringes your rights, then don't get any.

2/19/2009 01:04:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow.... i read this blog everyday about the bullshit cops go through in chicago. the one thing that pops up all over is the right for the average citizen in chicago to carry a gun. i ask a simple question.."what would u do" all the responses were negative...wow. allot of picked on vindictive people carry badges in this city. i wonder how many times you failed the psyche test mr. " I'm the POLICE"... or you mister "have a nice bus ride to county" ... my favorite ...lol... whats ur name and address...lol...you sir can have it. if the shit ever hits the fan you can deff hide out in my house. at least youll have enough fire power to fight back. i wasnt trying to be the police. just a question of protecting my self. for the record i carry all of my legally purchased law abiding fire arms un loaded locked in a case stored in the trunk going to the range. . . i still support the police to fullest...well the ones with common sense and deff not the ones that were picked on in highschool...lol

2/19/2009 01:49:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

CPD only got the carbines for one reason: it is a requirement of the International Olympic Committee. Thats it..

2/19/2009 03:07:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Any one catch Ana Davlantes?
Right on Target. Hot looking& She can shoot too!!

2/19/2009 03:23:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"CPD only got the carbines for one reason: it is a requirement of the International Olympic Committee. Thats it..

2/19/2009 03:07:00 AM"


Would it accurate to observe that the requirement includes the real possibility of their being readily available for use?

And not just the appearance of their being readily available for use?

2/19/2009 06:14:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"2/19/2009 01:49:00 AM"


Apparently, you are also too fucking stupid to recognize a 'heads up' and a 'word to the wise' when it's offered to you.

2/19/2009 06:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I would, but with 90K+ miles, it would fall apart upon impact with the shooter.

2/18/2009 09:26:00 PM"


Only 90k?

Who's your chinaman?

2/19/2009 06:21:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To: 2/18/2009 11:49:00 AM,


In the old days probably, but now with in-car cameras and microphones, and J-Fed snitches, and IAD set-ups I'd be real worried.

But there is hope, downstate legislators are trying to pass a concealed carry law here. It will be a hard sale but the fact that some politicians pal is going to make money selling insurance just made it more possible. So support that law, and vote against everything Shortshanks stands for. Join the underground movement and bring your friends to derail the Olympics, elect Republicans and seek any information that might put a sitting dishonest politician in the jail.

2/19/2009 01:00:00 AM

Thank you for a positive answer. I can deff understand all those reasons. We have the same thing going on over here in my department.

Thanks for little Tommy by the way ... lol

Un-armed City Worker Target ...lol

2/19/2009 07:33:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NYPD Trains for Mumbai-Style Terrorist Attack

Posted: February 17th, 2009 12:00 PM EDT

By TOM HAYS
Associated Press Writer

NEW YORK --

The team of police officers crisscrosses down a New York City block, bracing for a potential firefight with heavily armed suspects who've taken hostages inside a building.

"We know there are hostages in there," Lt. Kenneth Beatty warns while supervising the operation. "The number's unknown."

It's not real, but it's not a standard training session, either.

Local authorities believe New York City could be a potential target of militants trained and supplied as well as those who staged a seize in Mumbai last November, and NYPD leaders are determined not to be outgunned....

http://www.officer.com/

2/19/2009 08:01:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So I will safely egress the area of an active shooter and wait for SWAT. That includes any school.

2/18/2009 07:31:00 AM

Yoa are, and always have been, a coward and a dog. Everyone that has ever worked with you already knows that. It was not necessary for you to post this so the rest of the country could see it too.

2/19/2009 08:21:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What would you guys really do ?

2/18/2009 11:49:00 AM

Take you to jail pussy? Let me tell you something guy. I don't care that your a city worker, because you can't do shit for me. So why would you expect a break. You sound like a total nerd hell bent on coolness, but tragically you fail. Back to moms basement for some Magic little guy.

2/19/2009 09:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That thing on NBC 5 was pretty much pro police having rifles. It also pointed out that we were out gun. The news chick looked hot shooting an AR-15

2/19/2009 11:41:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How about needing 1 MILLION dollars liability insurance if you own a gun???
-------
Should only cost a couple of hundred a year.........

2/18/2009 06:51:00 AM

Then you wouldn't mind picking up mine, would you? Just FYI, if your a copper and you don't have an umbrella policy, consider it.

2/18/2009 01:17:00 PM

umbrella policies don't cover the popo for off duty incidents unless the incident happens on your property. I have a policy and that is what the agent told me. I you've found one that does cover you for off-duty incidents not on your property, please post.

2/19/2009 01:09:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.officer.com/web/online/Top-News-Stories/NYPD-Trains-for-Mumbai-Style-Terrorist-Attack/1$45412

Like we sent anyone to Mumbai to look at we should do!

We're too busy finding out who faxed a fake honorable mention.

2/18/2009 04:08:00 PM

GREAT POINT!

2/19/2009 01:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

said...
Do FBI agents have to pass a physical test every year to be qualified to use a rifle?

2/18/2009 12:13:00 AM

Yes, we actually have to pass an annual physical to keep our job.

2/18/2009 08:24:00 PM

BUT DO YOU HAVE TO DEAL OR EVEN FIGHT WITH SCUM BAGS DAILY, RISKING OR SUSTAINING PERMANENT INJURY?

2/19/2009 01:23:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey 2/18/09 12:08 pm Get your bullshit facts straight. Right after that shooting Leroy allowed you to just carry your automatic and alone and you didnt have to carry your revolver. He changed the order immediately after the shooting. I remenber quite well because its when I started to carry my 9mm. Sorry your memory is shot!

2/19/2009 03:46:00 PM  

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