Muzzle Flashes in the Dark
Watch this video. The action begins around 50 seconds and again after the minute mark:
That's a .40 caliber Glock and a .45 caliber Kimber being fired in the dark. Note the flashes and streaks as the bullets leave the muzzle. Now compare this to the flashes of alleged gunfire that the Tribune posted the other day involving a shooting still under investigation.
Those don't look like muzzle flashes.
And even if it turns out that they were, the shooting may still be justified. We've seen numerous training videos where an armed subject on the ground can roll and fire while prone with deadly accuracy at approaching officers, which is why we stated the other day, the best way not to get into a situation is to listen and do exactly what the police are saying to do. No reaching for phones to call mamma, old girl, your buddy, a lawyer, especially in the dark and especially after you just finished beating your current flavor of the week and her child. They'll all be waiting for you after your prints clear and a Cook County judge I-bonds you for your twelfth domestic arrest.
Oh, and the other two shootings the officer was involved with and the Tribune uses to imply he might be "out of control?" Guns recovered from both offenders.
On a side note, if anyone doubts the Tribune has an agenda, dig around in the article and you find this asininity:
That's a .40 caliber Glock and a .45 caliber Kimber being fired in the dark. Note the flashes and streaks as the bullets leave the muzzle. Now compare this to the flashes of alleged gunfire that the Tribune posted the other day involving a shooting still under investigation.
Those don't look like muzzle flashes.
And even if it turns out that they were, the shooting may still be justified. We've seen numerous training videos where an armed subject on the ground can roll and fire while prone with deadly accuracy at approaching officers, which is why we stated the other day, the best way not to get into a situation is to listen and do exactly what the police are saying to do. No reaching for phones to call mamma, old girl, your buddy, a lawyer, especially in the dark and especially after you just finished beating your current flavor of the week and her child. They'll all be waiting for you after your prints clear and a Cook County judge I-bonds you for your twelfth domestic arrest.
Oh, and the other two shootings the officer was involved with and the Tribune uses to imply he might be "out of control?" Guns recovered from both offenders.
On a side note, if anyone doubts the Tribune has an agenda, dig around in the article and you find this asininity:
- Farmer's father, Emmett, said the tragic chain of events reminded him of the LaTanya Haggerty case, a 1999 incident in which a 26-year-old computer programmer was fatally shot by police after she rode in a car that led officers on a 31-block chase. She raised a tiny object at an officer when the car stopped, prompting the officer to open fire and kill her. The object was a silver padlock.
Labels: shooting
posted by SCC at 12:04 AM
46 Comments:
Everything is against us, we work and pay taxes. While others just have children and thats what they get paid for. After the children are of age they retire with SSI.
Kinda looks like his flashlight to me, not muzzleflash.
Our problem here in Chicago is that the Daley Crime Family set precedents that if connected lawyers sued the City, the City would roll over and pay out million$. Now, even after officers are being cleared in shootings, the lawyers still want their money. Fuck them AND McIdiot who apparently wants to give them ammunition for their lawsuit by badmouthing the officers' actions.
"Sierra told investigators he feared for his life because he believed Farmer had a gun".
"In fact, Farmer was only holding a cellphone".
======================================
IN FACT, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF HE WAS HOLDING A PEA SHOOTER. IF AN OFFICER BELIEVES THE MAN HAS A GUN AND THE OFFICER IS IN FEAR OF HIS LIFE, ALL BETS ARE OFF!
Besides, guns do exist that are built to resemble cell phones to avoid detection:
http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/
cellgun.asp
Blink and you die in the dark! Run and you die tired! If you make me shoot I'll be telling them your side! So just relax and do nothing for a little bit. Okay?
SHOULDN'T BE SAID BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER.
It should be taught by parents; teachers;law professors;judges and THE media!
You want to live? SO DO I!
.
I get what you are saying but these are not suicide by cop situations where someone is pretending an object is a gun in order to get shot. People don't always follow direction but you gotta keep your cool until you are sure that your justified. Grabbing a "small object" does not reasonably lead you to believe a subject is attempting to commit great bodily harm in most circumstances.
I must acquire some of this new-fangled propellant that creates near-white muzzle flashes that look like a cheap LED flashlight. I never did care for yellow/orange muzzle flashes.
With regards to the .40 cal and night shots....
If you are an accomplished shooter,you know to purchase ammunition that has "low flash" qualities in the powder charge(so you dont give away your position under fire)
While that seems too "combat" for some,think about it.
Secondly,
I loved the fireball that came out of the Kimber .45
PROVES that in the questionable video it was NOT a barrel flash.
Ive been shooting for about 30 years now,own more guns than I will admit to here,and NO in my humble opinion those were NOT barrel flashes.
In most cases,(unless there is bad powder or primer) you will not see a flash or what you DO see will be blue and very dark orange in color.
McCarthy was wrong for his damning statements about this officer and this officer SHOULD consider slander and defamation charges.
None of us were there.
We have no right to judge this officer until all the facts are collected.
While some may say OMG THREE shootings in a year, check this out...
In late December of 2008, I shot and killed a man while off duty.
In January of 2009,I was involved
in another fatal shooting.
Trust me when I tell you it wasnt by MY choice! It was just the way the cards were dealt.
So it is,in fact, plausible that this officer COULD REASONABLY be involved in 3 shootings in a year.
Consider:
District of assignment:004
Watch Assigned: unknown
Beat Assigned: Unknown
Crime/violence rate: Medium to high
Officers past record: Exemplary
Instead of piling on the guy,we as a Department SHOULD be helping him and making sure he is OK.
But in the "me,me,me" society we are forced to live in now THAT offering of simple human compassion would be viewed as TOO MUCH LIKE RIGHT and run the other way from.
You youngins wanna show "balls"?
Then step up to this man and ask him if he is ok and needs anything.
Ask him how he is doing.
If you can break away from the Frat Pack long enough.
Would appreciate your take on this SCC.
Thanks.
I keep sayin don't be pro active in patrolling. It's been proven again and again. The idiots in charge don't like the police and will throw you under the bus in a New York minute. Get it!
The muzzle flash on the 45 ACP was impressive! It was the opposite of what I thought, I started watching and was sure the 40 S&W would have more muzzle flash.
Ask that father to name 3 signers of the Constitution. Betcha he couldn't do that, but he has total recall of events that evoke 'cha-ching' in his head.
keep working, nobody i mean nobody has our backs!
Is there any way a demonstration could be set up using a camera of the same make and model as the CPD Dashcam used for the video in question as well as a gun of the same caliber (if not the same make and model) at the same distance from the camera and under the same lighting conditions?
This shooter isn't too bright himself.
"...these hurt my ears." Well be smart enough to wear ear protection.
There are so many variables involved, you could add some magnesium powder into these rounds like they do in the movies and have a real flame thrower.
Stay Safe, and keep your powder dry.
I will bet my job that this officer has a high output LED flashlight, any firearms expert will laugh at this, this borders on the ridiculous. Sad day for cpd when our superintendent tries to make a political statement about this, this ignorance should end this goofs time here, or maybe not knowing the idiots in this city.
Given the completely different lighting conditions and the different cameras, nothing can be concluded.
It appears the squad car camera picked up the the movement of the officer's flashlight. It looks nothing like muzzle flash. McNut should keep his mouth shut.
As a firearms instructor, I tell my students to select their ammunition based, in part, on the (lack of) muzzle flash.
As a majority of deadly force incidents occur in low-light or no-light environs, it only makes sense not to light yourself up unnecessarily should you need to shoot to save your life or that of another innocent.
Some loads (and calibers, especially magnums) are notorious for huge, beach-ball muzzle flashes. Others quite the opposite.
Just because some clown does a youtube video (he said it hurt his ears to shoot... that told me all I needed to know about his competence), doesn't mean jack. Let me have five different loads in a .40 and I'll show you everything from next-to-no flash to big flash.
BTW, anyone with even a rudimentary understanding in deadly force law knows this should be an easily argued justifiable use of force case. Anyone saying it wasn't justified is merely showing their ignorance or willful disregard for the facts.
John
another problem and its a big one is the lack of a mouth piece from the FOP. when articles and assholes come out of the wwodwork and make comments it is imperative that the FOP speak up.
Silence is the enemy when it comes to shit like this. Hey FOP open your mouth and make some noise. Defend us and our honor. Thats what I pay that dues monthly that just increased.
stay thirsty my friends
Not muzzle flashes?!?! Are you daft. Was the officer using a Petronum spell? Lose the conspiracy bullshit, SCC.
Looked more like a camera flash from the suspects cell phone.Officer thought it was a weapon.
Flashlight
WATCH THE VIDEO OF THE SHOOTING POSTED BY THE TRIBUNE!!!!!! ITS THE OFFICERS FLASHLIGHT DROPPING TO THE GROUND!!! SCC, YOU NEED TO RE WATCH IT AND TELL GET IT OUT THERE THAT ITS ONLY A FLASHLIGHT! YOU CAN SEE WHEN THE SLOW DOWN THE VIDEO THE FLASHLIGHT TUMBLES TO THE GROUND. AS THE SQUAD GETS CLOSER YOU CAN SEE THE FLASHLIGHT STILL LAYING ON THE GROUND ILLUMINATED. JUST WATCH IT, ITS THE FLASHLIGHT, NOT GUNSHOTS!! WHY ARE YOU NOT MAKING THAT FACT PUBLIC, THEN MAYBE THE MEDIA AND OTHER OUTSIDERS WILL REALIZE THAT ITS A LIGHT AND NOT MUZZLE FLASHES LIKE THE MEDICAL EXAMINER THINKS... AFTER ALL, A MEDICAL EXAMINER IS NOT AN EXPERT IN FIREARMS, MANY HERE ARE. PLEASE, WATCH THE VIDEO MAKE IT PUBLIC AND SHOW EVERYONE THAT ITS JUST A FLASHLIGHT AND NOT GUNSHOTS, THAT WILL EXONERATE THIS COPPER!
All that video proved to me was that it WAS the officers muzzle flash!!!
I hope the officer wrote good paper or bye bye.
It's amazing when a person other than what exists in that community kills someone it's wrong without any question. That area should be gated and let the habitants live out their pathetic existence.
Was in three fatal shooting within three years. Two were six months apart. All were good with no question as to justification. Have since gone over twenty years with none, and no I was never given an inside spot or a meritorious promotion. Bottom line is if you are out there being the police it can happen.
Does anyone know what this "victim" was doing out running around in the dark? Past criminal history? Gang member? Another choir boy I guess. What a complete Cluster Fuck this case is going to be. Already GUILTY before the investigation.
I watched the Trib video several times (and had to endure their 20 commercial)
Look at the lights. They do NOT come from exactly the same place - not even close.
AND - any moron who thinks someone is unarmed with a cellphone, think again. They make cellphone guns (not a big caliber - but still LETHAL)
If I was faced with someone holding a cellphone at me I would shoot- knowing that there is a REAL possibility that the cellphone is a gun.
Next case!
Sorry haters...
That downwardly tumbling object emitting steady illumination WAS NOT A MUZZLE FLASH!
Again... we have a stupidintendent inviting the feds to rummage into the minute details of a Policeman's life just because he has a "problem" with the current processes in place that issued a finding of justified in this shooting incident.
We've heard rumblings for a while that the powers that be were going to "go after" Policemen present and possibly retired with multiple "you" numbers attached to their names. This was j-fled's and rosenztwit's very ugly baby thought to be stillborn but very much alive, well nourished and bent on revenge... BOLO for this one.
As sure as the fat lady took an hour to fall down the stairs, 9.5 ordered this video grab leaked to the media. (how convenient. just ahead of The Police planning on showing up in Springfield to lobby legislators to vote down 9.5's noxious attempt to vote himself sole control of our pension)
What better way to poison the well of good will than breathing new life into an already adjudicated use of force incident, spin it with and anti-Police slant and release it to show how awful and out of control The Police are, mere days before life altering legislation comes to the floor?
9.5 is Satan incarnate and McMouthbreather is his personal imp and willing henchman.
As one commenter inquired, "What the fuck did we do to deserve this?"
P.S.
McMouthbreather is a first class lout for commenting/opining in the media on an ongoing investigation!
9.5 & his suypporters are tearing up the roads riding for miles in every direction to dump horse shit down every drinking well they find.
"For the children!" They yell as they ride fast and far in their zeal to go fuck themselves.
From where we stand, Officer G.S. is being railroaded for political expediency.
This could be any one of us...
"Dad, what's THAT?"
"That's that ol' Chicago bullshit I told you about when you were little, son."
"Ohhhhh... I remember!"
*Proud Father Smiles*
given the completely different lighting conditions and the different cameras, nothing can be concluded.
---------------------
I suspect that to be the real truth in the situation.
I have personally fired many tens of thousands of rounds of various calibers in dimly lit ranges. There is often no discernable muzzle flash at all. It has to be really dark to get a spectacular muzzle flash.
OTOH, it seems unlikely if it was a simple and straightforward case of a justified shooting that the feds would still be investigating.
Maybe the supe knows something about it he cannot talk about just yet.
It does seem odd that he would get involved in this unless the city is trying to mitigate the damages for a bad shoot. Or maybe he is just shooting from the hip, so to speak.
Not a cop.
Even space aliens would be blowing this "light" thing off as UFO's. How can anyone come out and say anything about these "flashes" of light when they have no idea what they are talking about. I could see the low life connected lawyer hired by the family of the "victim" throwing this bullshit out to the media but our own police superintedant. Beyond words!
Range Instructor said...
All that video proved to me was that it WAS the officers muzzle flash!!!
I hope the officer wrote good paper or bye bye.
10/24/2011 11:12:00 AM
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Where are YOU range instructor? Hickory Hills Golf Club?? Or the Playland Miniature Golf on Harlem Avenue?
Better brush up on your sightings and visual depth perception.
First - you can discount the color unless you are using some magnesium-filled casings for your bullets. Hot white muzzle flash? I don't think so.
BUT MORE TELLING - look at the flash. Use the tree as your measuring post (see where the first flash occurs?)
The first one is at one level and the next one is half-way down the tree. Watch it several times. Check the measurement by where the flashes occur against the tree line.
Sorry but Perry F'ing Mason is right. Next case - the forensics here are BS.
And if you really are a CPD Range Instructor you better go get some real training.
OT: IACP had their big conference at McCormick Place today. You could have walked through there and selected anyone to be Police Supt. to replace McCarthy.
(INTL ASSOCIATION of Chiefs of Police - for all you who don't know the acronym)
wow!!!
Hey dummies, that is a flash light. Jesus. How stupid (or bribed) is that M.E.??
I know has nothing to do with this post but maybe you can post elsewhere. please call your state reps from Chicago district to oppose Pension Legislation HB3827 which is trying by Tom Cross to have the city of chicago control the pensions by taking away one of the elected representatives.
Sponsers of Legislations
If you are unable to attend the rally, you can participate by calling Tom Cross (sponsor of HB3827) or e-mailing him to leave our pension board alone.
If he is unavailable, please contact his Chief of Staff, Michelle Braker.
Springfield: 217-782-1331
Plainfield: 815-254-0000
tom@tomcross.com
HB3827:
Darlene Senger
Legislative Director - Pat Fee: 217-782-6507
Secretary - Shelly Stark
sengerstaterep@gmail.com
HB3815:
Karen May
Legislative Diretctor - Karyn Davidman: 217-782-0902
karen@repkarenmay.org
Chicago Rep at State Assembly
Luis Arroyo (D)
3rd District
(217) 782-0480 ( 773) 843-1500
Edward J. Acevedo (D) 2nd District Assistant Majority Leader
(217) 782-2855 (773) 843-1500
Maria Antonia Berrios
(D) 39th District
(217) 558-1032 (773) 736-3939
Daniel J. Burke (D)
23rd District
(217) 782-1117 (773) 471-2299
Dena M. Carli
(D) 1st District
(217) 782-7752 (773) 863-8701
Kelly M. Cassidy
(D) 14th District
(217) 782-8088 (773) 784-2002
Marlow H. Colvin
(D) 33rd District
(217) 782-8272 (773) 783-8492
William Cunningham (D)
35th District
(217) 782-8200 (773) 445-8128
Barbara Flynn Currie (D
25th District
(217) 782-8121 (773) 667-0550
John D'Amico (D)
15th District
(217) 782-8198 773) 736-0218
Monique D. Davis (D)
27th District
(217) 782-0010 (773) 445-9700
Kimberly du Buclet (D)
26th District
(217) 782-2023 (773) 285-1110
Kenneth Dunkin (D)
5th District
(217) 782-4535 (312) 266-0340
Sara Feigenholtz
(D) 12th District
(217) 782-8062 (773) 296-4141
Mary E. Flowers (D) 31st District (217) 782-4207 (773) 471-5200
La Shawn K. Ford (D) 8th District (217) 782-5962 (773) 378-5902
Esther Golar (D) 6th District (217) 782-5971 (773) 925-6580
Greg Harris (D) 13th District (217) 782-3835 (773) 348-3434
Constance A. Howard (D) 34th District (217) 782-6476 (773) 783-8800
Camille Y Lilly (D) 78th District (217) 782-6400 (773) 473-7300
Joseph M. Lyons (D) 19th District (217) 782-8400 (773) 286-1115
Michael J. Madigan (D) 22nd District (217) 782-5350 (773) 581-8000
Michael P. McAuliffe (R) 20th District (217) 782-8182 (773) 444-0611
Deborah Mell (D) 40th District (217) 782-8117 (773) 267-2880
Derrick Smith (D) 10th District (217) 782-8077 (312) 243-7129
Cynthia Soto (D) 4th District (217) 782-015 (773) 252-0402
André M. Thapedi (D) 32nd District (217) 782-1702 (773) 873-4444
Arthur Turner (D) 9th District (217) 782-8116 (773) 277-4700
Ann Williams (D) 11th District (217) 782-2458 (773) 880-9082
my uninformed speculative opinion is that reduction of arrests have lead to a reduction in civil lawsuits. The plaintiff lawyers are starving and need their next fix. They are desprate and will stop at nothing to get thier next million. The pols (and M.E. Office now, appearently) want their piece of the dity pie and are trying to help out the best they can. these dirty rotten scoundrels are at wits end and are reaching now. Be very careful with every action you take. dont be the next victim!
How the hell did the Tribune get a copy of the video from the squad car? Do they have a right to this video when it may very well be evidence in an investigation or trial. If this was evidence to help a citizen there would be holy hell to pay. This city is sooooo fucked up!
I'm really really impressed, in addition to many other talents, the M.E. is also an expert in ballistics.
just HOW did this video get out? Was a crime committed??
Shouldn't McPuppet knwo what a muzzle flash looks like at night? After all he shot out streetlights before.
Not a civilian
Those were not muzzle flashes, that video proves no wrong doing. Yeah when you work long enough in the ghetto and are not scared to work your chances of getting into a shooting is very high. Englewood area is the asshole of the city and the douch bags that get wasted and rightfully so are the dingle berries that need to be wiped away. And how is a medical examiner qualified to make determinations based on video evidence. Unless that gun holds l.e.d. Bullets that was obviously a flashlight.
How did the video get out?
The city probably put it out there OR responded to a FOIA request.
Maybe a lawyer representing the family of the dearly departed subpoenaed it.
This idea some of you seem to have that the city could not release the video is silly, silly, silly.
It's unfortunate that the department doesn't require 'body cams' which might give a better picture of why the officer fired.
That video doesn't show much and if I were on a criminal jury I wouldn't put much credence in it.
The best thing to do would be to fire the officer's weapon under similar light conditions and with the same type of ammo to see what light effect shows up. Oops, got to use the same type of camera too.
Again, I don't know what happened, but there are many legally justifiable reasons to shoot a suspect lying on the ground. Reaching for what appears to be a weapon etc.
Silence is the enemy when it comes to shit like this. Hey FOP open your mouth and make some noise. Defend us and our honor. Thats what I pay that dues monthly that just increased.
stay thirsty my friends
10/24/2011 10:56:00 AM
Anyone that quotes a beer commercial on a subject like this lacks any credibility at all. Grow up.
Anonymous said...
Ask that father to name 3 signers of the Constitution. Betcha he couldn't do that, but he has total recall of events that evoke 'cha-ching' in his head.
10/24/2011 07:40:00 AM
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Signers of the Constitution????
Anonymous said...
Ask that father to name 3 signers of the Constitution. Betcha he couldn't do that, but he has total recall of events that evoke 'cha-ching' in his head.
10/24/2011 07:40:00 AM
***********************************
Signers of the Constitution????
10/25/2011 03:46:00 PM
Yea he said signed that Constitution. What's so hard to comprehend that question? You know that little part of history way back in 1787 when 39 guys like George Washington, James McHenry, Charles Pinckney signed the document. Did you fall asleep in history class or just attend CPS?
Definitely a bright white light typically generated from an LED flashlight. It falls into the lawn next to the tree and when the movie picks back up in real time again you can see the flashlight beam again continue up from there when the officer picks it back up off screen.
I am not an expert, but those flashes on the dash cam seem to be much brighter than the muzzle flash depicted in the Glock .40 vs Kimber .45. It is definitely an LED flashlight. Keep in mind, the SCC video shows a completely dark outdoor area. The scene of this shooting more than likely had oddly placed streetlamps that are 30 feet tall (guesstimating) and provided dim lighting any way. Muzzle flash would be hard to distinguish.
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