Use of Force Question
If someone attempts to swallow dope in an officer's presence, is it permissible to grab the suspect by the throat to prevent the destruction of evidence?
And after grabbing that person by the throat, is it permissible to not complete a Tactical Response Report in regard to the Use of Force?
And after not completing that report, is it permissible to dump the entire arrest in the lap of a Tact Team that happened to respond to the scene of the confrontation? Why wouldn't your driver be tasked with some of the paperwork?
We're just wondering, seeing as how this might come up on a promotional exam shortly.
On a completely unrelated note, this comment popped up yesterday:
And after grabbing that person by the throat, is it permissible to not complete a Tactical Response Report in regard to the Use of Force?
And after not completing that report, is it permissible to dump the entire arrest in the lap of a Tact Team that happened to respond to the scene of the confrontation? Why wouldn't your driver be tasked with some of the paperwork?
We're just wondering, seeing as how this might come up on a promotional exam shortly.
On a completely unrelated note, this comment popped up yesterday:
- SLIGHTLY OFF TOPIC:
Did anyone catch the arrest which put McCarthy choking someone who swallowed dope? Resisted arrest, no charge for resist? Interesting...
Interesting indeed.
Labels: from the comments
posted by SCC at 12:02 AM
67 Comments:
You must have another source, who explained all this to you, SCC, because that person's post on the matter was incomprehensible to us mere mortals.
Are we bashing the sup? I give him credit for putting his hands on people. At least he is leading by example
Is this along the same lines of: " If you ( a white shirt ) recover a firearm in the potato chips rack of a convenience store, but don't arrest anyone.
Can you take said firearm in to a police facility, and have your driver attempt to recruit an officer to do the report/inventory, because you have to be at another appointment. ?"
A trr was in fact completed.. Saw it myself.. Just sayin..
Interesting choice of charges don't think what he was charged with applies. Also if an officer did what he did he would be suspended.
The beginning of the benefits of Quinn's latest early release prison program are coming in we see.
Although the CapitolFax blog is calling it:
"A black mark on apparent success"
But I will withhold my judgement because like oh so many things reported by the powers that be -- TIMING IS EVERYTHING. I mean this report only started counting things since March. Give it time. give it time.
examp. from >> http://capitolfax.com/2013/08/27/a-black-mark-on-apparent-success/
[...]..But one of those early parolees may have committed a murder…
The suspect in the recent fatal shooting of a Decatur man was released from an Illinois prison five months early as part of a revamped out-for-good-behavior prisons program, according to records reviewed by The Associated Press.
Joshua A. Jones served 19 months of a four-year sentence for drug-dealing and left the state prison in Vandalia May 3. Jones is now in Macon County Jail charged with murder in the Aug. 17 shooting death of 22-year-old Marvin E. Perry in Decatur — three months before his original release date.
The case is a potential embarrassment for Gov. Pat Quinn and the Department of Corrections under the revamped early-release program, just three years after the governor struggled to win the 2010 election following a scandal involving the early release of more than 1,700 inmates within weeks or even days of arriving at prison. The AP reported at the time that they included hundreds of prisoners convicted of violent crimes or with violent histories.
Background on Jones from the Decatur paper…
Jones has had three felony cases, including two involving firearms, in the past eight years.
He received his four-year sentence on Dec. 10, 2012, after pleading guilty to charges of dealing cocaine and heroin. In that case, he was arrested after police received a report of a man with a handgun near the intersection of Main and Hilton streets on Oct. 3, 2011. When officers arrived, Jones reportedly ran from them while holding a semiautomatic handgun. When he was booked into the jail, a bag was recovered from his rear end containing 18 crack cocaine rocks and 25 heroin rocks.
Felony charges of armed violence were dropped as part of a plea deal. With credit for time served awaiting trial and day-for-day prison credit for good behavior, Jones was released May 3.
In 2009, Jones was charged with felony aggravated unlawful use of a weapon for carrying a handgun in a vehicle. As part of a plea agreement, he received 18 months conditional discharge, a lighter form of probation, and his charge was reduced to a misdemeanor.
* How it went down…
Perry was shot to death about 9:30 p.m. Aug. 15 in the 1200 block of North Union Street, as he stood near his girlfriend’s home. There were many people in the vicinity at the time, including some who were involved in a verbal altercation. The victim was apparently briefly engaged in the argument before he was fatally shot in the chest.
Read the entire thing at the link at the beginning. It's too long to post here.
Maybe NYPD is allowed to choke people but here in Chicago, they'll put a Copper in prison for that...
Hopefully the Tact Team in question was smart enough to put McLostHisMind smack in the middle of his own shit.
Remember... Our hand to hand combatives have to pas muster with the Corporation Counsel.
Yes... Lawyers who never had to fight for their lives have final say-so in how forcefully Policemen can defend themselves.
Rookie cop mistake. Choking them helps get it down faster, Grab their nose shut. Pops right out.
Trr should be filed.
I hope the Tact team had enough sense to put McCarthy and his driver on the paper.
Several years back, then CCSA Devine went on record saying any police officer choking a suspect who swallows dope will be charged with MURDER if that person dies. There is a small bone in the throat that can easily be damaged by choking and that leads to suffocation. Let them swallow. Who cares?
TRR was completed and approved. At least this copper didn't have the wc MR from 004 who believes any physical contact requires a trr and when one is completed he won't approve it for hours. According to the guys who work under this MR he is like the retired CW reborn. But the gel police are always happy to lick his ass.
"Rookie cop mistake. "
-----
Well, he IS just like a rookie when he's not drunk.
If you swallow dope in front of me,so be it. I'm not going to wrestle someone that decided to swallow a rock. When the baggie dissolves inside their stomach that will be justice.
McTwelvepack is lucky the chicken shit fed isn't his boss otherwise he would be looking at five years in the federal pen.
There are two sets of rules every police officer needs to know about. One set of rules is for us lowly police officers. The second set of rules is for bosses, politicians and their favorite friends.
If you are a gung ho cop, a cowboy, etc... then fine. Be that. But also deal with the consequences. The same bosses that rewarded you will be the first ones to abandon you the minute a situation went awfully wrong.
It's been said before - McCarthy IS NOT A POLICE OFFICER! He.is technically a retired NYPD officer. He does not carry police officer status in Illinois just by virtue of his employment status as CPD Superintendent.
Where's Loevy & Loevy on this issue?
I know for a fact that the Supe likes to choke the chicken.
Now, kees me you fool!!!!
never choke
bend them over from the waist and hold head lower than stomach
very hard to swallow "up" and more often than not it triggers an involuntary gag response.
The correct charge is "Obstruction of Justice" for him destroying evidence. And if he chocks to death expect to be sued by his Link Card family.
Wow, I hope I never have to sit in a beat car next to the guy or girl who posted this. Why don't we just start posting everything we do wrong and air our dirty laundry to the whole world. It is disgusting how fast people are on here to judge others and talk shit. If I had to bet, I would put my money on that the original poster was not even there and does not have the full story of what happened.
You must have another source, who explained all this to you, SCC, because that person's post on the matter was incomprehensible to us mere mortals.
8/28/2013 12:06:00 AM
At this rate, you'll never make detective.
I was thinking of elaborating, posting the CB and district of occurrence. However, I wanted to keep it simple and vague.
So now we're bashing the superintendent for getting out of the car and playing police?
Speaking of Quinn, did it escape notice that he just signed a deal requiring ALL interviews for potential felony cases be recorded? Further, all spontaneous admissions or admissions made by feloneous bad guys without audio/video will be inadmissible.
Hell, CPD can't afford working equipment or Police Officers, so how the hell does this turd think we'll be able to do our jobs? Departments state-wide are in the same boat. I can't wait to leave this state and its asshat politicians...
Rookie cop mistake. Choking them helps get it down faster, Grab their nose shut. Pops right out.
Right on. Just pinch the nose, no real force and out it comes
I am no fan of McCarthy; but let's give credit where credit is due. NOBODY ON THE JOB TODAY CAN REMEMBER ANY PREVIOUS SUPERINTENDENT WILLING TO PUT HANDS ON AN OFFENDER. Does anyone believe Mahogany Head Fred Rice, LeRoy Martin, Rodriguez,Klein, or Weiss would even touch an offender. Sometimes you can see there was a time when McCarthy was really a cop, before he became a political hack. Incidents like this are examples of when he goes Retro.
consider it as a life saving manuever and fill out a missle X
Anonymous said...
Are we bashing the sup? I give him credit for putting his hands on people. At least he is leading by example
8/28/2013 12:07:00 AM
Yeah. He's a real bad ass copper. Stroke.
Where is 'SWALLOWING DOPE" on the Use of Force model? And wasn't choke holds/choking banned?
Who cares if Pookie swallows dope!
If he dies, he will save taxpayers alot of money in having to take care of his dumb ass!
TRR should have been completed. In case of whatever narcotics it was either A) allow him to swallow few bags of grass for the petty charge. B) larger quantity of perhaps blows, arrest and take to hospital for stomach pump. C) gut punch, dope pops out, catch it one handed, high five other hand.
Let them swallow the shit. What the hell, small quantities are tossed for no PC by the SA so who cares? Perhaps the gram or two is enough to bring on a good OD and send them to the ME. At any rate, they lost the dope which is the worst punishment they can get. They won't get any harder slap at 26th St.
Yes... Lawyers who never had to fight for their lives have final say-so in how forcefully Policemen can defend themselves.
. . . or even arrest the offenders. More like bean-counting bureaucrats
Cover up RHIP.
OT: Forget about Apple picking and the cell phone snatchers. Once this racket gets going here we will be doing reports on body part snatching. Shit, a kidney or a pair of eyes are worth more than a hundred cell phones.
---
Reuters
3:26 a.m. CDT, August 28, 2013
BEIJING (Reuters) - Chinese police are hunting for a woman suspected of gouging out the eyes of a six-year-old boy, possibly to get her hands on his corneas to sell on the organ transplant black market, state media reported on Wednesday, a crime which has horrified China.
The boy, from northern Shanxi province, was lured into a field on Saturday by the woman, where she gouged out his eyes and left him in a pool of blood, only to be discovered by his parents hours later, Chinese media reported.
While his eyes were recovered, doctors were unable to save his sight and he is now blind, the official Xinhua news agency said.
The China News Service said his corneas had been removed, likely to be sold on the black market.
Walk away goof! 19p , Im sure you can find another pinch.
I heard GMac arrested a goat.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7846822.stm
TRR was completed and approved. At least this copper didn't have the wc MR from 004 who believes any physical contact requires a trr and when one is completed he won't approve it for hours. According to the guys who work under this MR he is like the retired CW reborn. But the gel police are always happy to lick his ass.
8/28/2013 06:46:00 AM
Takes about 2 minutes to fill a TRR out. That's time well spent. In fact: they are paying you to cover your ass. What a country!
I've filled out quite a few and had them save my ass when an arrestee or his family became unhappy became with his arrest experience. Maybe your Lt. is keeping you safe. Quit complaining.
I am no fan of McCarthy; but let's give credit where credit is due. NOBODY ON THE JOB TODAY CAN REMEMBER ANY PREVIOUS SUPERINTENDENT WILLING TO PUT HANDS ON AN OFFENDER. Does anyone believe Mahogany Head Fred Rice, LeRoy Martin, Rodriguez,Klein, or Weiss would even touch an offender. Sometimes you can see there was a time when McCarthy was really a cop, before he became a political hack. Incidents like this are examples of when he goes Retro.
8/28/2013 10:26:00 AM
It's the equivalent of a supervisor that "asks" you to write a traffic citation. Not good in court.
Flex you muscles in the City Counsel and get us some warm bodies and cars. That's the job you are paid to do now.
Anonymous said...
TRR was completed and approved. At least this copper didn't have the wc MR from 004 who believes any physical contact requires a trr and when one is completed he won't approve it for hours. According to the guys who work under this MR he is like the retired CW reborn. But the gel police are always happy to lick his ass.
8/28/2013 06:46:00 AM
If you are speaking of the midnight wc he will retire soon so worries there. He has actually released arrestees without charging and does so regularly. As to your claim about officers kissing his ass I have never seen it when I was there. Nobody liked him and he knew it. But there was no gel police either.
Wow, I hope I never have to sit in a beat car next to the guy or girl who posted this. Why don't we just start posting everything we do wrong and air our dirty laundry to the whole world. It is disgusting how fast people are on here to judge others and talk shit. If I had to bet, I would put my money on that the original poster was not even there and does not have the full story of what happened.
8/28/2013 09:16:00 AM
You're right, I don't have the full story. I have the report. Which is a summary of the facts.
I applaud McCarthy for taking some type of Police action as opposed to "gotta run."
Nonetheless, what's your excuse for ball-licking him?
i had a guy shollow dope on a traffic stop brought ass to the hospital and then dui his sorry but.
Anonymous said...
It's been said before - McCarthy IS NOT A POLICE OFFICER! He.is technically a retired NYPD officer. He does not carry police officer status in Illinois just by virtue of his employment status as CPD Superintendent.
Where's Loevy & Loevy on this issue?
8/28/2013 08:12:00 AM
You are correct, but he does carry police officer status, by virtue of him passing the state certification exam.
Give credit where credit is due... Hmmm... Gary, There wasn't a day in your life when you weren't a politician. You wore a uniform. DON'T confuse that with being a cop OR having balls. Putting your mitts around some punk's throat while fully backed-up and observed by real street cops who would jump in and save your ass if he fought back aint brave or tough. It was stupid and no doubt designed to pander to those officers who want to believe in you as one of us. Pathetic. And Cline WAS the police 'til the day he left this career.
BTW: If it wasn't G-dog who wrote that, whoever did must never have worked with or around Phil Cline to make that statement and misspell the last REAL Superintendent's name the CPD has had.
Anonymous said...
It's been said before - McCarthy IS NOT A POLICE OFFICER! He.is technically a retired NYPD officer. He does not carry police officer status in Illinois just by virtue of his employment status as CPD Superintendent.
Where's Loevy & Loevy on this issue?
8/28/2013 08:12:00 AM
__________________________
He got a waiver from ILETSB. So yes he is a police officer. Remember when he had a goatee and didn't shave it UNTIL he got the waiver and became sworn and he IS sworn.
He is a certified police officer in the State so deal with it. You don't know as much about this issue as you think you do. This is a non issue.
It's not like he shot the suspect in the streetlights or anything.
Maybe j-fled will call DOJ and have McMooky done up on a Civil Rights beef...
Why not?
The examples have been set already. Right?
Hell... If Policemen can get sent to prison for slapping a deserving mutt, why can't the stupidintendent be royally done-up for choking a mutt whose swallowing dope was harmful only to himself?
Kinda like shooting a guy who has a gun to his own head...
A regular blue-shirt would have been fucking LYNCHED from the tree in front of his house by the Department and the media with his wife and kids made to watch.
"You should've known better, Officer."
The whole choking thing is nuts. Choking an offender will not stop him from eating the dope, it stops him from breathing until he spits out the dope. The move was intended to grab the back of the offender's jaw and not let him chew to work it down, then his mouth pops open and you get the dope. In other words, don't choke the offender. If he swallows dope and you document it, you'll be sitting with him at the hospital. If he swallows dope and you want it, you can go to the hospital and the Dr can induce either vomit or diarrhea and the evidence can be recovered and offender charged. If you document he swallowed dope in an any report, even a trr, you will be at the hospital since any amount can cause an overdose. Is a one-two-or three bagger worth all that? You know dude is in the dope game, now you know to set up on him better and try again another day. Choking is out of the question. We are not trained in any of that so you'll be hung out on your own, and in this hate the police climate you'll probably be criminally prosecuted too. Grab the cheeks and squeeze, he still can't swallow-- Go ahead try it-- squeeze hard and try t swallow, you can't. Grab the cheeks or jaw if you must, but a better option is to remember tomorrow is another day, and he'll still be dumb enough to be right back on the tip.
I was with Cline during the Bulls riots and he put his hands and a few police "tools" all over plenty offenders!
Anonymous said...
Rookie cop mistake. Choking them helps get it down faster, Grab their nose shut. Pops right out.
Yes Sir, you are correct. Works every time and no marks on the neck to give you grief!!!
The next step will be to put recorders and cameras INSIDE the cars to record the conversation on the way to the station just in case the asshole makes a statement.With the liberals in charge within 10 years every big city will be unlivable.
Who gives a fuck?
"So now we're bashing the superintendent for getting out of the car and playing police?"
8/28/2013 09:43:00 AM
Why, yes... Yes we are...
Him getting out of the car and playing police is going to result in Policemen getting fucked up physically or put in the jackpot financially...
In either scenario, don't look for him to step up and own the responsibility or do the right and honorable thing by his officers.
Policemen are nothing but expendable to McCarthy.
The Tact Team doing the Great White Dope-Hunter a solid will be left as skeletons twisting in the wind when the usuals in the Cook County court system do the usual and dude is sweet-talked by a sharpie into seeking redress for his hurt feelings.
Cases go to shit in Cook County nowadays more than ever before even when the paper is tight and Dude says "I dunnit..."
Anonymous said...
I am no fan of McCarthy; but let's give credit where credit is due. NOBODY ON THE JOB TODAY CAN REMEMBER ANY PREVIOUS SUPERINTENDENT WILLING TO PUT HANDS ON AN OFFENDER. Does anyone believe Mahogany Head Fred Rice, LeRoy Martin, Rodriguez,Klein, or Weiss would even touch an offender. Sometimes you can see there was a time when McCarthy was really a cop, before he became a political hack. Incidents like this are examples of when he goes Retro.
8/28/2013 10:26:00 AM
Oh , Lay off the Kool Aid, Suckhole...
If I suspected that an arrestee had swallowed packets of drugs, I offered them a can of CokaCola.
It's not choking. It's called " preventing from swallowing" as the oral ingesting of narcotics is known to be possibly fatal.
Best advice is don't put yourselves in a situation where you have to worry about choking someone when he has swallowed drugs. No one gives a fuck about us or any arrests we make. On the contrary they will be standing there video taping you doing it. Whether you were right or wrong they will hang your ass out to dry. Jesse Jackass will be protesting to hang your hide. Best thing go park somewhere read the paper, hand out a few tickets and do as little as possible...if you see someone with drugs, just keep driving right on by and wave....believe me you will save yourself alot of hassle....The days of being the real police are over..the public does not want that...
The next step will be to put recorders and cameras INSIDE the cars to record the conversation on the way to the station just in case the asshole makes a statement.With the liberals in charge within 10 years every big city will be unlivable.
8/28/2013 08:34:00 PM
You just showed how sheltered you are at your inside safe spot because we have had cameras that record the inside of the car for a couple of years now. Actualy a great idea, bringing a murder or whatever suspect to the station/area just hit record and not ask any questions just let them ramble on. Miranda only needed when you ask anything.
I applaud McCarthy for taking some type of Police action as opposed to "gotta run."
Nonetheless, what's your excuse for ball-licking him?
8/28/2013 03:39:00 PM
.......said the guy bumping chins with the guy.
>>>Anonymous said...
I am no fan of McCarthy; but let's give credit where credit is due. NOBODY ON THE JOB TODAY CAN REMEMBER ANY PREVIOUS SUPERINTENDENT WILLING TO PUT HANDS ON AN OFFENDER. Does anyone believe Mahogany Head Fred Rice, LeRoy Martin, Rodriguez,Klein, or Weiss would even touch an offender. ..."
JAMES ROCHFORD, yes I am that old, about to pull the pin and McNumbnuts makes me sick.
"...Sometimes you can see there was a time when McCarthy was really a cop, before he became a political hack. Incidents like this are examples of when he goes Retro.
8/28/2013 10:26:00 AM<<<
Should read, "when he goes PSYCHO".
Did he do a T.R.R.?
Ya suck holes - We are NOT to give Mcidiot ANY credit for choking out a hype - most of us have been there done that -big frickin deal - remember this statement "government sponsored racism of our black and brown kids"
You just showed how sheltered you are at your inside safe spot because we have had cameras that record the inside of the car for a couple of years now. Actualy a great idea, bringing a murder or whatever suspect to the station/area just hit record and not ask any questions just let them ramble on. Miranda only needed when you ask anything.
yea ok..and how many times in your career have you done this?
Jody is in the process of calling the feds to have him charged with violating dudes rights
"It's not choking. It's called " preventing from swallowing" as the oral ingesting of narcotics is known to be possibly fatal."
Fatal to your house, savings, marriage, kids education and police career.
As the Kissing Bandit would say, "swallowing is good!"
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
TRR was completed and approved. At least this copper didn't have the wc MR from 004 who believes any physical contact requires a trr and when one is completed he won't approve it for hours. According to the guys who work under this MR he is like the retired CW reborn. But the gel police are always happy to lick his ass.
8/28/2013 06:46:00 AM
If you are speaking of the midnight wc he will retire soon so worries there. He has actually released arrestees without charging and does so regularly. As to your claim about officers kissing his ass I have never seen it when I was there. Nobody liked him and he knew it. But there was no gel police either.
8/28/2013 03:31:00 PM
MR is a douche bag. He is a douche bag to most. Some people don't know how to kiss ass properly and it's their loss. There is a brighter side to the toilet. You just have to come out of the toilet and look around.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
You must have another source, who explained all this to you, SCC, because that person's post on the matter was incomprehensible to us mere mortals.
8/28/2013 12:06:00 AM
At this rate, you'll never make detective.
I was thinking of elaborating, posting the CB and district of occurrence. However, I wanted to keep it simple and vague.
8/28/2013 09:34:00 AM
You succeeded.
"It's not choking. It's called " preventing from swallowing" as the oral ingesting of narcotics is known to be possibly fatal. "
How do you know he is swallowing drugs? As far as I know he could be swallowing some Skittles.......
Anonymous said...
TRR was completed and approved. At least this copper didn't have the wc MR from 004 who believes any physical contact requires a trr and when one is completed he won't approve it for hours. According to the guys who work under this MR he is like the retired CW reborn. But the gel police are always happy to lick his ass.
8/28/2013 06:46:00 AM
If you are speaking of the midnight wc he will retire soon so worries there. He has actually released arrestees without charging and does so regularly. As to your claim about officers kissing his ass I have never seen it when I was there. Nobody liked him and he knew it. But there was no gel police either.
8/28/2013 03:31:00 PM
MR is a douche bag. He is a douche bag to most. Some people don't know how to kiss ass properly and it's their loss. There is a brighter side to the toilet. You just have to come out of the toilet and look around.
8/29/2013 04:55:00 PM
MR just pissed off the most pleasant officers of the 4th district. MR tells her she is getting the book thrown at her regarding her facebook shit. She went nuts. She comes back to first watch from second watch and gets screwed right away. Some coppers are staring rumors that she doesn't deserve anything and that she's just like the female who couldn't fit the police car onto the bike path. This is not true. MR is an ass and she is being violated for no good reason. We should all be supporting her.
Post a Comment
<< Home