Under the Bus!
- Two aviation security officers have been fired — and a suspended officer has resigned — for their roles in the April 9 passenger dragging fiasco aboard United Airlines Flight 3411.
The final resolution of disciplinary action recommended by Inspector General Joe Ferguson is included in Ferguson’s quarterly report, released Tuesday.
As always, the names of the fired employees were withheld. They were identified only as an aviation security officer and a sergeant.
The visuals (and politics) of the entire incident were never good, and it was obvious the shit was going to flow all the way downhill from the beginning.
Labels: general
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
62 Comments:
yeah the visuals, body cameras will help us...cough cough.....their is collusion of who doesn't have to wear one.
Yeah, but a DOA Lt. escaped everything by leaving right after this happened, after telling his guys to “go be the police, stop people, go on all the calls”. He should’ve been the first to go, but he’s still there.
I wonder if that report explains, in detail, how the security officers SHOULD have gotten the passenger to leave the plane in a timely manner. You know, the 'approved' method of getting someone to let go of a seat when they're clenching on like a child. Maybe they should have put a bunch of bubble-wrap around his head first.
The "victim" Mr. Moto made out like a bandit. He received untold $millions from the airline for being a combative crazy arsehole. Now three men are out of jobs. Just scapegoated to satisfy the Liberal freaks. Sad.
Thought Rahm had their back too... ah, maybe it was some different guys in my imagination... anywho... make the security department look like jamokes cause you are the Poleec = pass go and fuck yourself --- fired
Rahm determined their under-the -bus destiny right from the get go.
The yes men are simply following Rahm’s orders.
What about Ginger? No heat on the highest paid person in Chicago government? Her China man must be the size of Godzilla.
This incident capped off a long process where these guys managed to pretty much make enemies of everyone who mattered, including us. A small handful but as we all know it only takes a few. Rule #1 is "Dont be anyones bouncer" especially some POS airline who will be the first to testify against you. They dont deserve to be fired. The guy was a POS and their Admin left them in never, never Land not ever even knowing what they are. A fucking drug dealer Doctor who traded scripts of Oxy for sex with another male in his 20's. Did you see that picture of him and his family in the Trib?
The Trib made them look like Ozzie and Harriet.
Scape goats. These two officers actions are the result of poor training and leadership. Chicago's Department of Aviation is so corrupted with politics that it will never be fixed. By firing these two officers makes rahmie look good in the publics eyes but fixing the corruption will not.
It was a civil matter, not a police matter.
Political correctness at its worst.
Ahh and the citizens still line up to take the yearly police exam... the beat goes on.
About time, what took so long. Then you wonder why the public is mistrustful when with your headline of "under the bus", indicates you feel they were mistreated. Bad actors need to be pointed out and fired no matter what. The code of silence isn't going to cut it anymore. The sooner you realize that the sooner things will get better. Yea, the job is tough but not everything done by one in blue is ok. When they step over the bounds they should be hit hard. Your silence when you witness a bad act by fellow Leo is the same as the communities silence as witnesses to crimes they see. There is one difference, the community witness is not carrying a gun in case of gang retribution. If you see something say something!
Sadly, this was a CPD call and they were the back up. I can't help but wonder why the CPD wasn't there? Maybe it because they are at less than 50% and the city was using DOA to make up the difference. I also have to wonder whats happened to the money the airlines pay for the police that aren't there.
One guy told me the CPD was dispatched first, if that's so, shame on the officer who didn't respond in a timely manner.
What a job no gun only a baton, I am only a Security Monitor, Like the comericial on T.V. where do I sign up to get my application 30 bucks an hour, no regurments only need a blue card, WHAT A JOKE, CALL YOURE CHINAMAN.
What's that? You no sign complaint? You just want him off the plane? Welll.... me no take.
When the good doctor refused to get off the plane the Aviation Police should have left, typed up a complaint for disobeying a flight crewmember, returned and presented it to the airline captain for his or her signature. If no signature then leave and let the airline deal with it on their own. If the captain signs then arrest the doctor, and if the doctor resists charge him for that too.
Damn shame but they didn't help themselves.
If what the nitwit doctor was doing aroused
such alarm and urgency, Federal Air Marshals
should have dealt with him.
DOA fucked themselves the minute they left
the terminal proper and got on that plane.
Knowing where your authority begins and ends
is the key to Law Enforcement survival...
Silly people will always try to lujack you into
doing something that is over-reach just because
they see something shiny pinned to your shirt.
"Well, aren't you a Cop?
Then DO SOMETHING!"
Nope.
Sorry.
The something YOU want sometimes
exceeds our actual lawful authority.
Know when and where you can tell
people to go scratch.
Also... Know how to protect yourself
from ignorant and ill-informed supervisors as well.
They WILL send you off and when you get tagged
administratively/legally for getting caught with your
foot off the bag, they suddenly won't know who you are.
"Boss? Buy a ticket to my benefit?"
>Running footsteps<
"Uhhh, boss? BOSS?!"
Know where your lane is and stay in it.
No matter what and no matter who.
Protect yourselves from THEM.
ALWAYS!
Make yourselves hard and difficult
to hit targets...
Police Like You Have No Friends.
This should have never involved anyone but airline paid people with airline paid for training and airline rules. Still, shit runs downhill, if you're at the bottom, lookout!
J.J.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I wonder if that report explains, in detail, how the security officers SHOULD have gotten the passenger to leave the plane in a timely manner. You know, the 'approved' method of getting someone to let go of a seat when they're clenching on like a child. Maybe they should have put a bunch of bubble-wrap around his head first.
Maybe the airline should have had their employees remove the doctor. It was a civil matter and the police should not have been involved. Offer more money to passengers who get off the plane. Also the reason they were told to leave was that the airlines wanted the seats to get their employees to another location. That's their problem, not the problem of the seated passengers or the police. They screwed these guys
The officers should still be kicking the communist doctors ass for not obeying their lawful order.
Why are their names always withheld when COD officers names are all over the media and newspapers
Only the DOA officers involved on the plane should lose their jobs. They were playing police when they are not and messed up big time. The Sgt. should not be fired. He did not tell them to do it, he wasn't even there! How could he have stopped or prevented them screwing up? He is being used as a scape goat, so they can say they punished someone of rank. I hope he sues and gets his job back. If he goes, so should the rest of them up the chain.
Remember this with your next interaction with the public, (hands on) Police work isn't pretty and some of the public is looking to burn us. First question should always be "whos signing complaints". These guys got screwed.
These guys were in a no win situation, but if they go then everyone involved should go, including the supervisor that ordered them in the first place.
It also makes me think of the blood drawing incident in Utah. The cop that was following orders was terminated, while the supervisor that ordered him to arrest the nurse was just demoted. Should have been the other way around.
"Sir, this airplane is not going to taxi, much less take off, with you on it. We have decided - and it is our decision- that you are not welcome aboard this aircraft. You have not RIGHT to be here, as this aircraft is indeed PRIVATE PROPERTY.
Now, we have asked you to deplane, we have told you that you are not welcome here and that there is ZERO chance this plane will take off with you on it.You have had due time to deplane. Therefore, in ONE minute, you will begin unquestionable and undeniable Trespass. You will be officially costing this airline a great deal of money that you WILL be sued to pay for. Likewise, you are unlawfully holding hostage every person on this airplane and your continued presence on this airplane will constitute admission that you are indeed holding them hostage by holding this airplane hostage.
Your tantrum will cost you everything you own. And in the end, you will STILL end up getting off this airplane one way or another, so what are you going to choose?"
The mistake made was heavy handed melon thumping absent thinking or planning.
Before you do violence upon a person in a police action, one must have the approval of the body politic to DO that violence upon a person - meaning- it has to have risen to a level where violence is ACCEPTED as the means REQUIRED.
Guess what - had those "police" have USED the man's delaying tantrum to get the other people on the plane to DEMAND they do whatever it took to finally get this guy OFF the plane, you know, used their HEADS, they wouldn't be out of a job. They didn't, they played King Kong and people are TIRED of that being done a matter od FIRST RESPONSE.
How DARE a person not BOW instantly to EVERYTHING a cop says all the time always? Yeah, that is what has BLM fueled up. DO yall have to thump melons sometimes? Of COURSE!DO ya have to thump melons right off that bat as a first act? NO, YOU DON'T.
Was this guy in the wrong? YUP! No question about it.
Was there a better way to handle this? YUP.
Try it, you- and the public- just might LIKE it!
This is BS, Rahm political pandering BS.
Mighty Joe Ferg should have No Say in the matter in the first place.
The Airlines wanted police service to remove an unwanted, non cooperative passengers and a unarmed security entity got involved first.
They do this ALL THE TIME with paying passengers, why else would they be on the jet.
United got what they wanted, a passenger removal.
Obviously they have their own "hands off" policy, but rely on the Poice and others to do the boogie man dirty work.
What if CPD was the first on the scene?
United settled the matter with the lunatic creep.
(His lawyer insists the AVPD lied)
Two Aviation are smeared for being abusive and United comes out totally unscathed (the money is peanuts).
What's next a KimmJongFxxx Inquistion and a criminal prosecution (oh that will come nearer to re-election time).
They did their job, at the request of the airline as required to meet United's FAA flight requirement.
The flight should have been cancelled and everybody off, that would have ended the multimillion dollar settlement, pissed off 150 otherwise normal passengers and the looney doctor would have found another route back to where he came from.
What United paid this squealing quack far exceeds what a new flight and vouchers for all would have cost, believe me.
I hope these two file their own lawsuit.
Employer discipline, ok.
Training, ok.
Discharge - no.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I wonder if that report explains, in detail, how the security officers SHOULD have gotten the passenger to leave the plane in a timely manner. You know, the 'approved' method of getting someone to let go of a seat when they're clenching on like a child. Maybe they should have put a bunch of bubble-wrap around his head first.
10/18/2017 12:36:00 AM
---------------
It was NOT a Police Problem!!! They should not have tried to remove him to start with.
Before you go hands on, you better make sure you are right. The passenger was sitting peacefully in his seat. He was not the problem. The problem was the pig ignorant bully that sicced the Aviation Police on the passenger. You make sure you are actually solving the problem first. It was a business issue. He had a valid ticket, and the gate agent was doing his/ her best to screw him out of it so they could dead head United crew for free.
If he was that big a problem, you should have evacuated the entire section of the airplane before you lay hands on him.
They should have been fired. Maybe not for stupidly being the bullying bouncer ejecting the passenger on the word of the gate agent, but for what happened afterwards. The pound on the guy, he is bloody and dazed in the jetway, and they lose control of him. He was so dangerous, that they had to forceably remove him from an aircraft, but they they let him RUN BACK ABOARD the plane?
If he was so dangerous that they urgently had to rip him out of his seat, why didn't they keep him restrained after they left the plane? Would you ever be so cavalier on a domestic call?
nonymous said...
I wonder if that report explains, in detail, how the security officers SHOULD have gotten the passenger to leave the plane in a timely manner. You know, the 'approved' method of getting someone to let go of a seat when they're clenching on like a child. Maybe they should have put a bunch of bubble-wrap around his head first.
10/18/2017 12:36:00 AM
They should have let the CPD handle the incident. There is no "approved " method, Common sense and experience will dictate your actions. What criminal law did he violate to justify the use of force? DOA were never trained to use this method to handle a passenger. In fact their training is very limited. The chief of DOA at the time was a political appointee and had no control over DOA. So sad but DOA officers knew the job they signed up for but they still want to be the police. Sad.
Should've gotten a complaint signed before removing the guy ! And how did he manage to run back in after getting taken off the first time !
99.99% of people will leave.
They don't cry, scream and carry on.
Too, years ago there was no "social media" or everyone with a camera.
Your word was your word.
The firing was political. Most people have forgotten about this.
Not quite. Better to hang these people out to dry only to further your career!
Unreal. Glad I'm retired. Do not miss walking on egg shells my entire day.
NOT ILLINOIS. NOT LAW.
Where are the "Air Marshals" to drag his ass off?
You don't do any removing without a signed complaint
Anonymous said...
Scape goats. These two officers actions are the result of poor training and leadership. Chicago's Department of Aviation is so corrupted with politics that it will never be fixed. By firing these two officers makes rahmie look good in the publics eyes but fixing the corruption will not.
10/18/2017 06:45:00 AM
Where do you think Aviation Officers get their training? That’s right, in our Academy by CPD instructors in the Metro class. Same place and same instructors that CPD has. If they were poorly trained then we all are poorly trained.
Just dissolve DOA and be done with it.
Anonymous said...
Where are the "Air Marshals" to drag his ass off?
10/18/2017 03:24:00 PM
What crime?? it was a civil matter.
Thank god the DOA hacks are not armed....imagine the consequences...........
Anonymous Anonymous said...
About time, what took so long. Then you wonder why the public is mistrustful when with your headline of "under the bus", indicates you feel they were mistreated. Bad actors need to be pointed out and fired no matter what. The code of silence isn't going to cut it anymore. The sooner you realize that the sooner things will get better. Yea, the job is tough but not everything done by one in blue is ok. When they step over the bounds they should be hit hard. Your silence when you witness a bad act by fellow Leo is the same as the communities silence as witnesses to crimes they see. There is one difference, the community witness is not carrying a gun in case of gang retribution. If you see something say something!
10/18/2017 08:30:00 AM
You obviously aren’t the police and never will be. If you are a ‘cop’ you’re a pathetic excuse for one. You can read all you want here but please don’t comment on things you have no fucking clue about. Shut the hell up until you understand how our “tough” job is really like. These security officers made poor enforcement decisions primarily because they aren’t and never were police officers. They weren’t trained on the specifics of criminal and civil law liability. And because they weren’t trained as such they were taken advantage of by airline personnel and their own stupid supervisors ( who also should be on the hook ) who ordered them to do it. They were like bouncers/ security guys who got fired for being bouncers when asked by United. Unable to see the larger picture of civil liability but they never intentionally set out to harm this “victim”. He claimed he was roughed up because he became non compliant through his decision to not leave when told to. So go back to your mothers basement dude. I’m sure you would have fared much better with all your knowlledge of law enforcement. Oh and btw we don’t have a code of silence that’s a media invented concoction to string along morons like you to believe anything they see on TV.
Funny that Joe Ferguson has so much power and investigates bs but all the aldermen and the mayor are all perfect and he never seems to find anything there. Get rid of this political bum.
Who let the COPA poster in at 8:30 am?
"Sir, this airplane is not going to taxi, much less take off, with you on it. We have decided - and it is our decision- that you are not welcome aboard this aircraft. You have not RIGHT to be here, as this aircraft is indeed PRIVATE PROPERTY.
Now, we have asked you to deplane, we have told you that you are not welcome here and that there is ZERO chance this plane will take off with you on it.You have had due time to deplane. Therefore, in ONE minute, you will begin unquestionable and undeniable Trespass. You will be officially costing this airline a great deal of money that you WILL be sued to pay for. Likewise, you are unlawfully holding hostage every person on this airplane and your continued presence on this airplane will constitute admission that you are indeed holding them hostage by holding this airplane hostage.
Your tantrum will cost you everything you own. And in the end, you will STILL end up getting off this airplane one way or another, so what are you going to choose?"
The mistake made was heavy handed melon thumping absent thinking or planning.
Before you do violence upon a person in a police action, one must have the approval of the body politic to DO that violence upon a person - meaning- it has to have risen to a level where violence is ACCEPTED as the means REQUIRED.
Guess what - had those "police" have USED the man's delaying tantrum to get the other people on the plane to DEMAND they do whatever it took to finally get this guy OFF the plane, you know, used their HEADS, they wouldn't be out of a job. They didn't, they played King Kong and people are TIRED of that being done a matter od FIRST RESPONSE.
How DARE a person not BOW instantly to EVERYTHING a cop says all the time always? Yeah, that is what has BLM fueled up. DO yall have to thump melons sometimes? Of COURSE!DO ya have to thump melons right off that bat as a first act? NO, YOU DON'T.
Was this guy in the wrong? YUP! No question about it.
Was there a better way to handle this? YUP.
Try it, you- and the public- just might LIKE it!
Can't agree with you. You need a signed complaint
How can you be trespassing on a plane you paid for a seat. If they needed seats for their employees that's their problem
8:30--- I got on the job in the early 2000s today... I am ready to get off because I see there are guys who are on the assholes side... once I went to a call and witness a cop in a fight.. so I let asshole ride lightning-- later on that cop said I over reacted; I asked him, are you willing to put that on paper--- I knew then that asshole cop who would let me battle it out with oasshole was my backup. Looking back I would never had taken this job. So who is coming on. Good luck, cause I take my time to calls. I am not going to risk anything for anyone, why should I risk being injured if I can help it. Is Rham going to pay my mortgage or put my kids through college. If I was illegal asshole immigrant he would.
Southwest Airlines at midway pulls the same shit and dumb coppers CPD do the same thing! No wonder southwest is known as the "greyhound of the skies!"
DOA officer fired for Role 14
Sgt fired for adding to report again Rule 14
that's not being a scapegoat, that's being stupid
OK , How Come the Brass ain't going also on this one , Someone gave the Order or Green Light to do it , to Remove the Doc from the Plane who was the Brass on that one , AGAIN they will throw you under the Bus in a Heart beat , and you wont be protected One Bit , When Shit hits the Fan , WHERE THE HELL IS THE UNION on this one , What a Joke , Stay Fetal Don't do Shit for these Bastards anymore
How DARE a person not BOW instantly to EVERYTHING a cop says all the time always? Yeah, that is what has BLM fueled up. DO yall have to thump melons sometimes? Of COURSE!DO ya have to thump melons right off that bat as a first act? NO, YOU DON'T.
Was this guy in the wrong? YUP! No question about it.
Hahahaha! How dare that nurse not bow instantly to the officer who wanted to draw blood from an unconscious civilian!
As many stated above, this was a civil matter.
""Anonymous said...
Sadly, this was a CPD call and they were the back up. I can't help but wonder why the CPD wasn't there? Maybe it because they are at less than 50% and the city was using DOA to make up the difference. I also have to wonder whats happened to the money the airlines pay for the police that aren't there.
One guy told me the CPD was dispatched first, if that's so, shame on the officer who didn't respond in a timely manner.
10/18/2017 08:42:00 AM""
No. For some unGodly reason APD, errr "ASD"'s , radios get calls before CPD does. Yeah, something about the comm system makes them get "our" calls before we do. Besides its a big, big airport and theres no telling who would get there first.
"" Anonymous said...
Where are the "Air Marshals" to drag his ass off?
10/18/2017 03:24:00 PM""
Oh the, like, two Air Marshalls that come thru the gates in an 8 hour shift? Those two? They are probably in the air flying.
Where do you think Aviation Officers get their training? That’s right, in our Academy by CPD instructors in the Metro class. Same place and same instructors that CPD has. If they were poorly trained then we all are poorly trained.
10/18/2017 04:46:00 PM
Hey dumbass. How you are trained and how you implement that training and use it are two completely different things. You can be trained correctly but if you are bravado exceeds your brains you're doomed
Retired from 050. Guess what, neither DOA or CPD get aviation specific training. Mainly because many of the bosses are political. Remember, we had a commander go to jail!
I want be a aviation ranger look a me super duper in my uniform, but a don’t have a CHIN A MAN, one two three four,let me try again.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Where do you think Aviation Officers get their training? That’s right, in our Academy by CPD instructors in the Metro class. Same place and same instructors that CPD has. If they were poorly trained then we all are poorly trained.
10/18/2017 04:46:00 PM
Hey dumbass. How you are trained and how you implement that training and use it are two completely different things. You can be trained correctly but if you are bravado exceeds your brains you're doomed
10/19/2017 04:55:00 AM
You mean like many within CPD.
Anonymous said...
Where do you think Aviation Officers get their training? That’s right, in our Academy by CPD instructors in the Metro class. Same place and same instructors that CPD has. If they were poorly trained then we all are poorly trained.
10/18/2017 04:46:00 PM
Hey dumbass. How you are trained and how you implement that training and use it are two completely different things. You can be trained correctly but if you are bravado exceeds your brains you're doomed
10/19/2017 04:55:00 AM
Aviation recruits were trained to work the street not at a airport. Not one academy class had any connection to working in a airport environment. After graduation they quickly learn they do not have an effective management team, no leader and that the CPD hates them. They get two weeks of classroom training from the airport feds and aviation sgts that are also clueless. Why are they trained at the academy when half of the training does not apply to their position? The only police department that can carry off duty not on duty.
10/18/2017 09:56:00 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
DOA officer fired for Role 14
Sgt fired for adding to report again Rule 14
that's not being a scapegoat, that's being stupid
Don't judge so quickly. That's Joe Fergusons opinion on Rule 14. Funny, when they were doing the Lts test investigation, he determined no one was violating Rule 14
The guy got 12 mil
" Anonymous Anonymous said...
It was a civil matter, not a police matter.
10/18/2017 07:14:00 AM"
"Maybe the airline should have had their employees remove the doctor. It was a civil matter and the police should not have been involved. Offer more money to passengers who get off the plane. Also the reason they were told to leave was that the airlines wanted the seats to get their employees to another location. That's their problem, not the problem of the seated passengers or the police. They screwed these guys
10/18/2017 10:39:00 AM"
etc...
I agree that this whole situation should never have happened, HOWEVER, it is not as simple as saying "civil matter, no police action possible" when you have someone refusing to vacate the private property of another. Rent dispute? Sure. Customer wanting a return on merchandise? Yep. But when a private airline (or business) determines to remove a person from a plane, the police are not there to determine whether the airline's motivation have merit or not. A private actor has the legal authority to order someone off their property and the police have the legal authority to arrest someone for refusing based on trespass laws and probably a variety of others related to airlines in particular.
Now, the big problem here was that this was treated like a bouncer throwing someone out of a club. That was stupid. The moment he had to be touched he should have been placed under arrest, not just removed. And the question remains, for those arguing that this was an unreasonable use of force (and not just the question of whether he should have been removed in the first plae)- what force would have been reasonable to accomplish the goal? The reason I ask is that I think there should always be an answer to that before people spout off about brutality.
Airlines overbooking so they can shaft someone. Great way to do business if you can get away with it. Get off or we drag you away Dr.Chang.
Aviation recruits were trained to work the street not at a airport. Not one academy class had any connection to working in a airport environment. After graduation they quickly learn they do not have an effective management team, no leader and that the CPD hates them. They get two weeks of classroom training from the airport feds and aviation sgts that are also clueless. Why are they trained at the academy when half of the training does not apply to their position? The only police department that can carry off duty not on duty.
10/19/2017 10:57:00 AM
Policing is policing regardless what environment it’s done. Do you mean since they worked at the airport they maybe should have come onto the airplane with beverages and peanuts. We get calls to different places all the time and we act like the police. We were not trained only to work on streets exclusively but to be the police while circumstances around us change.
Bring back Frazier Thomas Jimmy Maur with all B.S. Medals CPD.
Whhels in the buss go round and bump, bump. What was that?
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Bring back Frazier Thomas Jimmy Maur with all B.S. Medals CPD.
10/20/2017 09:59:00 PM
Have you seen some of the commanders? 020 for instance?
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