A poor use of manpower
Rumors abound of a good sized sergeants class in September/October, maybe 80 to 120 total. As we pointed out in a previous post, the department is starting to notice that it is shorthanded. The obvious solution? Hire more people. But even if they were hired tomorrow, it's 6 months before they can alleviate any shortages. This is just poor planning.
Here's another poor plan: the class of sergeants will leave the districts (on average) another 2 people short along with the Units. But they'll be on the street supervising shortly, right? Wrong. Continuing one of the more poorly thought out ideas, the sergeants to be will be in class for a few weeks, then assigned to the D units for 90 days of training. Training for what we ask? We can't get good answers on that count. We've asked guys who have gone through it: they called it a waste of time. We've asked detectives what they thought of it: they said most of the guys aren't ever coming back to a "D" unit, so its a waste of their time babysitting. We've asked a couple of LTs in the "D" units what they thought of it: they said it was horrible, that they could teach these guys in 3 weeks TOPS, that ride-alongs got boring after 4 weeks. So why keep doing it? We can't get an answer on this either. But it means you're going to have a boatload of guys, sitting in a "D" unit, when they could be out on the street getting a little seasoning before the next wave of recruits hits the street.
Here is our proposed training schedule: (1) Don't touch the gun. (2) Secure the scene and the witnesses. (3) Call the dicks. If you can't grasp these concepts in a week or two, god help this department.
Here's another poor plan: the class of sergeants will leave the districts (on average) another 2 people short along with the Units. But they'll be on the street supervising shortly, right? Wrong. Continuing one of the more poorly thought out ideas, the sergeants to be will be in class for a few weeks, then assigned to the D units for 90 days of training. Training for what we ask? We can't get good answers on that count. We've asked guys who have gone through it: they called it a waste of time. We've asked detectives what they thought of it: they said most of the guys aren't ever coming back to a "D" unit, so its a waste of their time babysitting. We've asked a couple of LTs in the "D" units what they thought of it: they said it was horrible, that they could teach these guys in 3 weeks TOPS, that ride-alongs got boring after 4 weeks. So why keep doing it? We can't get an answer on this either. But it means you're going to have a boatload of guys, sitting in a "D" unit, when they could be out on the street getting a little seasoning before the next wave of recruits hits the street.
Here is our proposed training schedule: (1) Don't touch the gun. (2) Secure the scene and the witnesses. (3) Call the dicks. If you can't grasp these concepts in a week or two, god help this department.
posted by SCC at 9:00 PM
36 Comments:
The department is short-sighted all the way around. What we need, we don't get. What we don't need, is crammed down out throats.
We need PDTs. Really.
We need xerox machines that work. If they want copies of everything we do, give us the equipment to make them.
Computers. Don't get me started. Why upgrade old computers to XP when they cannot support it? They freeze and crash. If they want us to do everything in clear, then give us a couple of computers that work.
Get your money back from the vendors who provide bad carbons in the reports. It's not our fault that you can't read the copy.
WE NEED PDTS.
It sounds petty, but it makes everybody nuts when EVERYTHING is broken but you are still expected to produce.
And, an idea for all of the bosses in any support unit. Really find out how your people deal with others on the phone. If we have to call the gun desk, central warrants, identification, ERPS, etc., we shouln't be treated like assholes, told "I don't know," "the person who does that is on break," "call back later in about a hour," or generally blown off entirely. We're not calling to chat, we have to get our job done. If you don't want to be answering the phone, then get out of your spot.
On a good note, the new short squad cars have kick screens installed on the side windows of the prisoner compartment. Finally, a good idea.
The copy machines purchased from Daley Copiers Inc. are good machines.
The PDT's we have which were purchased from Daley PDT Machines and More Inc. are great.
The squads we are driving with over a 100,000 miles were all leased from Daley Daily Vehicle Leasing Inc.
The new Police Stations being built are actually owned by Daley Real Estates Holdings Inc and leased to the department.
The taser guns were purchased from Smith Taser Guns Co, a subsidiary of Daley Tasers, Inc.
Although all the purchases and leases were secured at well over priced prices they are the best obsolete equipment available at the time.
All questions regarding these items listed may be sent to:
Daley Inc.
121 North Lasalle #500
Chicago, IL
anonymous said at 10:29 pm
EXCELLENT Comment. I couldnt have said it better myself. Our equipment really sucks. Did you see the stuff they have at 35th and Michigan.....it's top grade. If the board members at the FOP ever sober up, maybe they would say something about it and get the word out to the media.....but thats a long shot. Mark Danahue is a great guy.....yeah right!
I'm back!
They should send all the dets. who make sgt to patrol for 90 days so the can learn how to code jobs. Thats the new sgt, another 99 beat car.
I think the program is a waste of time. When it first started I thought it was a good idea. Passing a "management" oriented test doesn't mean you know shit about police work. But I've found that most of the sgt.'s who went through the program suck just as bad as before. The ones who learned something want to play detective at the scene and keep telling me about when they were in the "D" unit. I really don't give a fuck. The scenes are still as fucked up. Here's an idea, you play sergeant, I'll play detective, and lets get this thing done. I didn't always know what the dicks were looking for when I was a patrolman. But that's the nature of the game. A good dick will figure out the rest of the shit as he goes along. The 7 years I've been a dick has erased any respect I had for the rank of sgt. There are good ones working in patrol, but it takes a while to figure out who is who, and then hope it's their scene. The flip side is my respect for the guys riding in beat cars couldn't be any higher. These guys are the grunts of this department and eat every piece of shit that gets dropped out of Cline's ass. It's amazing that they work as hard as they do and get the job done. The 2 things I tell recruit ride alongs is when you get to the scene grab live bodies. The shell casings aren't going to get up and run away. Live bodies are what's needed to solve this thing. The other is for the paper car to stay at the scene. The worst thing is to get there and no one knows what happened. Then big sarge tells you the paper car is at the hospital; doing what? Interviewing a dead guy? Just my two cents. And yeah, I know there are plenty of asshole detectives. There's not much I can do about that except feel sorry for you if ya get stuck with one. There has to be a better way to spend the time and the D2A pay than this.
Because we are so short in all ranks. My question is where does the money go? If the budget for PO's is for my guess maybe 1200 officers. And we only have 1100, where does the $5,000,000 go? (100 X $50,000 average salary for a PO, which is low). What about other ranks, the total cost saving could be huge. Is the city running short just to save a buck? But still where does the money go?!?!?!
In know for a fact, that the reasson the Sgt.'s go to the D Unit is because the coppers in District Law get blamed for the low clear-up rates. How u ask. My source tells me that the D-Unit Commanders have got the brain trust at HQ (now this is going back a couple years) believeing that when the coppers repsond to a shooting or homicide, theyscrew up the crime scene. the purpose of having the Sgt's go the the D-Unit is so they can learn to preserve the crime scene. Now, i know that we do occasionaly mees up a crime scene, but it has been my experience that about 95% of the time we do a great job of preserving the crime and about 50% of the time have the crime solved by having the offender in custody or witnesses rounded up before the Dick's are done telling us to call them with the information.
Ever wonder why we have to call the D-Units with info on crimes. They have a P-CAD terminal in every area. Wouldn't it make much mosr sense to communicate via PDT to the Area and give them information that way. Instead we have to use our personal cell phones.
They want u to do the job. They say manage your resources. Then they don't give us the resources to do the job. Everyone is right, copiers down every other day, not enough PDT's to go around, computers in the sations running windows 98 with Pentium 2 processors. Ugggggh!
Maybe just a rumor but heard class size could be as large as 147.....who knows?
The d/c and the w/c in 006 got the brand new computers. The rest are the old shit that was brought with from the old station (roaches and all). The money spent on servicing all the old shit is more than buying new would cost. Someone "special" must have the repair contract.
The highest we heard was 130, the lowest was 80. They certainly aren't going to meke less than 50 just because of the retirements and the 46 LTs they just made.
The pdt situation is a joke everything is computerized but either a pdt is unavailable or there broke someone got rich selling us this crap where is pam zeckman when you need her
did the city run out of money to finish the 008th dist or do we have to wait until the scandals are over so Daley can hire his political hacks to finish the job
Whats the word on when a new Sgt's test will be given?
It is said that there will be this class, then one more in the spring, then they will start developing and administering a new Sgt's test. So figure est late next year or early 07, with one definite class and one possible.
Also, a friend at the academy has related to me that the bosses are beginning to hold meetings to develop the new lieutenants test. Looks like Phil wants to get his boy eligible ASAP.
We had one of those P.P.O. Sgts, who actually went and told on one of the youth guys.
Long story short, PPO Sgt puts out an IA on a juvenile for a battery to P.O. Kid gets arrested for dope and the IA pops up. After interviewing kid and the PO, turns out the PO fell when the kid pulled away from her. She was trying to catch him cause he was a runaway. PO wasn't even injured. She told the PPO Sgt this from the start.
This idiot now wants a youth officer to do the arrest report. Excuse me, but if my memory serves me correct, if it's your arrest, aren't you supposed to do the arrest report? The YO told him this and he went and told the HSG Sgt. What a whiney B*
I am typing this on my PDT. It se ms t be wor ing ok. I ne er real y had a pr blem with my P T. I don't kn w what yo r talki g about.
Message Error
Not In Range
So rel x and it wi l be OK.
Paladin
Now, i know that we do occasionaly mees up a crime scene, but it has been my experience that about 95% of the time we do a great job of preserving the crime and about 50% of the time have the crime solved by having the offender in custody or witnesses rounded up before the Dick's are done telling us to call them with the information."
95% great job & 50% of felony offenders in custody? I hope things are going well in the 26th Disrict. With any luck you'll be a dick soon and then you can eat a big serving of humble pie like all the other know-it-all dickheads that shpw up not knowing their ass from a hole in the ground. You'll be a dick for 6 months and you'll already be complaining that you weren't trained properly and praying for the next sgt's test.
I'll second 1st poster...we need desks, files, we need printers that you don't have to shake to get I more clear printing from, we need computers, chairs that aren't broken, cars that are actually saf to drive,supplies available,room to work,xerox machines that are commercial grade to support the endless stream of paper we are required to produce....comfortable uniforms....people in suppoet units that have the ability to act professionally...no one has time to put up with bullshit sarcasm and stupidity.... and lastly Bosss that have at least a idea of what goes on on the street,in the unit..etc...I fear more a hundred sheep led by a lion..than a hundred lions led by a sheep....(with apologys to the real author)
Annonymus 12:05 AM. You are obviously a Det. You should caome back to patrol and see the B.S. we have to put up with from the D-Units. Come back to busy district for a week, you'll be ready to go strangle some of these Detectives. I know there are great Detectives. I know Detectives don't have resources like new computer and good work space. I know your chief is incompetent. But don't blame Patrol for the B.S. 20% and 30% clear up rates. Last year area 2 Dectectives made 0, none, nada, burglary arrest. None in all of 2004. Area 2 detectives conducted no reverses at an pawn or secondhand stores in all of 2004. I know Area 2 has been saddled with a couple of bad commanders and incompetent meritorious promotions. And again, there are some great dectectives out there. But come on? And, aren't the D-units suppose to be a support unit for patrol. We're tired of having to go around and pick up witnesses and and get video tapes and have cases put on hold because the Detectives can't work overtime.
I hate to say this but you all should quit. Do your fuckin jobs. We all used do this shit with bad cars, no computers, nothing. God you guys make me sick.
to 10:55 am......
Yes, I know you all used to do the job without all this stuff but the Department has since become dependent on it. We HAVE to make copies, we HAVE to run name checks for investigative alerts, we HAVE to use eTrack to inventory, we HAVE to enter gang information in the computer, etc. If the Department went back to the old way, so could we, but they expect us to work their new way without the equipment to do so.
Well padawon (or whatever the fuck you call yourself), don't you think we have been fed the same bullshit with new requirements. Full scene reports on "heard shot, felt pain". Jobs we didn't even send dicks out on two years ago now require a full tour to process. Mandatory buy/busts, look out messages, every piece of evidence had to be documented in the inventory system, processed, follow up reports written, blah, blah, blah. As for pinching burglars, the d-unit did away teams that chase down burglars and robbers way back when they switched to the violent crimes and property crimes system. My units manpower is down 26% from this time 5 years ago. Your not the only one doing more with less. Quit your fucking bellyaching and do your fucking job. Try handling two separate shootings and a murder in one night. Or you're in the middle of one murder with and they pull you off to handle another one by yourself. You're at work for 14 or 16 hours and then expected to come back in the next night and pick up where you left off. I'm not complaining or asking for your fucking sympathy. That's my job, I do it, and I enjoy it. You're a typical big-mouth cop. You're the best and everyone else is fucked up. I'm still chuckling at the 50% of felony offenders being custody comment. Go join the Glencoe PD, Retard.
PALADIN:
Last year area 2 Dectectives made 0, none, nada, burglary arrest. None in all of 2004. Area 2 detectives conducted no reverses at an pawn or secondhand stores in all of 2004.
Listen you ignorant mope, I just ran the activity of Area 2 Robbery:
One dick Sotak made 31 arrests for burglary in Area 2 . Beasley had 25.
The midnight vc dicks made ten between 004 and 022. Why dont you run the areas activity for every thing from robbery to finacial crimes. Get your numbers right. You judge 200 people based on your ignorance. Instead you should ask why the dept has to use reverse senoirity to get people assigned to A2. Why do 37 people bid out(2005) every time new dicks are made? In four years one hundred five guys bid out only one person has bid in to A2. The management blows, the sgts suck in Robbery and Blow in Youth. Now even the VC unit is getting Morons assigned there.
Lt. DOC attempted to set up a sting and was stopped by the Area 2 Deputy who stated narcotics takes priority. The majority of the stolen property from the 003 and 004th Districts is fenced in Hammond on Calumet Avenue. Your great dept leaders ordered the dicks to stop setting up surveillance in Indiana. Ask the guys who work.
Area 2 is the anus of the detetive division but in my 18 months there I learned alot and saw some dedicated detectives, get shit on by the female merit detectives who used their sex to get the good jobs (most female dicks with weekends off city wide)
Dont judge the group because of your negative experiences with some of the dogs assigned there.
They lead all the other detective units in assignments and handouts.
Ill agree with one thing from the last post Area 2 is the anus of the Det division. But you do have some sharp dressers i bet you guys handle alot of crime scences in your $500 suits and fedoras. P.S. try and tell shaw that witnesses arent dates
10:55 yeah... and you used to leap tall building in a single bound..your so fucking tough...people do their jobs despite not having the resources or backup or most important how about... help from the great ones like you...why don't you teach us all how to fly.......
You are all a bunch of whinners come to work do your job and stop worrying what the fuck everyone else is doing If you think you could do a better job study take the test and do it. But even if you did I'm sure in short order you would be one of the whinng Det. complainig about P.O's because if there is one thing constant on this job it's that every unit has it's share of know it alls and complainers but they never offer solutions
I couldn't have said it better. 6 months in the d unit and they'd be bitching that the beat car was all fucked up. Followed with "When I was in patrol...". They'll be bitches where ever they work. Just do your fucking job.
Right on about Area 2. I thought most of the white guys bought there close at the local funeral home.
I didn't realize that CPD was so full of whining cunts! Wow!
Paladin said,Last year area 2 Dets made 0, none, nada, burglary arrest. None in all of 2004. Area 2 Dets conducted no reverses at any pawn or secondhand stores in all of 2004. Aren't the D-units suppose to be a support unit for patrol. We're tired of having to go around and pick up witnesses and get video tapes and have cases put on hold because the Dets can't work overtime.
I say
You stupid fuck you, in Nov 03-Jan 04 four Dets in Area 2 cleared 52 Burgs in 006 with a Tact Team and they went and recovered a lot of the property at local pawn shops. One shop was closed. In Apr and Mar 04 18 Burgs were cleared in 004 and 006. So quit playing with your gash and get your facts straight. Also name one Det that doesn't want to work OT you ignorant fuck. Pick up witnesses, if you stupid fucks would not release them you wouldn't have to pick them up, and as for the video tapes don't fucking touch them. Your not smart enough to run them on the comp anyway. As for the way Area 2 dresses, go fuck yourself. Sorry we didn't raid Daddy's closet so we could put on a Sipowit's shirt and tie. Area 2 is a shithole and alot of us work hard to fix the stupid shit you clowns in patrol fuck up. So quit your whinning and wipe your pussy, cause it sounds like your bleeding.
weird, I've seen more shitty detective work than I've ever seen in patrol. And where did most of these useless fuckers come from? I'm guessing patrol.
Guys everyone has to work together. We all make mistakes, that happens. The main goal is the bad guys go to jail and the victims get help. At least that is what I have always done and been told.
yeah, no shit about some of these dicks. I watched them release an informant one night, (who had far more information than he should have) then tried to blame it on everyone else when he fled the state. Bet those goofy fuckers started out in patrol too. Getting promoted to dick doesn't make you smarter. Sometimes it just makes you a bigger dick.
Can't you just feel the love, guys?
Now let's sit in a big circle, join hands and sing "Kumbaya"...
"Paladin said...
In know for a fact, that the reasson the Sgt.'s go to the D Unit is because the coppers in District Law get blamed for the low clear-up rates."
Oh, Paladin, Paladin, you know so little about this. The reason that the soon-to-be sergeants become "play detectives" is so that they can add that in to their resume. For instance, "I was a homicide dick before I became sergeant." You know, especially when that brand spanking new sergeant is dealing with a crusty, dinosaur-like detective and the sergeant thinks that since he has 2 weeks on the street as a sergeant, 90 days as a "play detective" and a couple of years on the job, he thinks he knows more than the crusty, dinosaur-like detective.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing here. Sadly, the "play detectives" are useless, the learning curve is a bit steeper than they ever thought.
Now what should bug every patrol officer out there is that these "play detectives" are taking up spots in the detective division and not really doing anything. It should but every patrol officer that a capable and qualified patrol officer is not filling the spot. And it should really irritate every patrol officer, that for the entire time that the "play detectives" are in the detective units, they are getting the same pay as a detective, yes, that is D2A pay. And a qualified patrol officer near the top of the detective list is unable to make their goal.
And what did our vaunted union leadership do about this? Well, it looks like nothing, so the administration will keep making "play detectives" prior to the sergeant classes, so that they don't have to promote qualified and capable officers to detective and not have to increase the number of detectives.
But then don't we have a union president that is even less than a "play detective", since not only did he ever investigate a crime as a detective in a detective unit, but he didn't investigate any youth or juvenile investigation as a youth officer or investigator.
So, let's recap, we have a Supt. who knows how to micro-manage, we have more than a couple of exempts and unit commanders, who are clueless on how to conduct an investigation and then we have a large percentage of sergeants who wouldn't know an investigation if it hit them in the head as they were never detectives, youth investigators or gang specialists, yet they attempt to supervise detectives.
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