Rumors (and Facts)
Meritorious Detective letter is out (fact). Nominations are due around 07 November. This means that they are sitting on a Merit list of Sergeants (they've had the letter for 6 or 7 weeks now) and they are soliciting Merit nominees for dicks. Where they think they're going to get the manpower that this is going to short District Law Enforcement is beyond us. Are they going to disband a couple big units to make up the shortfalls (rumor)?
posted by SCC at 3:38 PM
51 Comments:
i hear the academy is booked solid with recruits from now until april
I heard that they will be making classes of 40 dets, every few months. Can't pull many guys out of the areas due to manpower, to teach the classes...oh, the irony...
I know I'll get clobbered, but....
Does the Department and the Citizeens of the City of Chicago REALLY need MORE Det's?
Can some current Det's enlighten us meager PO's on their workload? Such as number of cases and number of high priority cases?
I know hte bosses' kids need their high paying spots (they didnt study the correct answers for nothing), but do we need MORE Det's NOW?
(getting ready to be flamed)
A little over 10% of our force is dedicated to investigative units. Other major cities dedicate as high as 20-25%.
Given the hundreds of thousands of reports generated as well as the quatity of arrests that CPD produces a few more (like 300) detectives would help.
Go into the datawarehouse, tactical, incidents & run any date you want. This will show you just how many reports that are generated on any given day.
The current investigative manpower can barely keep up with the typing and process jobs let alone investigate the current caseload.
Some of the cases are solvable if we only had the time to work them. If we can solve the case and arrest and charge and convict the offender we will prevent some additional crimes (perhaps where your own family may have been the victim.)
I know that manpower is down everywhere and promoting will further strain the district level but to answer your question, YES we need more detectives ASAP...
If the P.O.'s of this great city did their job as preliminary investigators and wrote down the correct information. Then made it legible and stated the truth we would be fine with the number of Detectives. But as I have seen the case reports a child in 5th grade could do better.
Did anyone see the ch 5 news at 5? Neil Sullivan was billed as "Assistant Director of Homeland Security" Isn't that a civilian spot. Director is. What gives?
130 Sgt's will be made tomm. with Detective training of 90 days.
how about the case reports with 5 digit phone numbers...no victims...wrong RDs...no vehicle info...the list is too long to mention...
I thought that all recruits have to have a minimum of 60 college credit hours just to apply for this educationally demanding job. Did our education system fail us again? Oh wait maybe that requirement was waived for some of our less fortunate department members.
75 sgts, 130 sgts, 150 sgts somebody is full of shit, which is it?
Hey 6:24, we had better policemen, and sgts before college was needed. You probably don't remember.
to 6:24.....I think it's fair to say that the 60 hour college requirement has not done much to improve the CPD. In the abstract, a college education today is not much different in quality than a high school diploma was years ago. I have wondered why the CPD doesn't institute an English writing, grammar, and composition component, not only on its entrance exam, but during Academy training, i.e., case report narratives, etc. (strictly and uniformly applied, with failure leading to dismissal). Actually, I think I know why the CPD doesn't do it. In addition, much criticism has been directed at patrol sgts. for approving substandard reports. In my view, if the sgts rejected each and every poorly written report for correction and/or revision, the CPD would have a report backlog of monumental proportions......
what make you tink we aintg be using gud enlis!
This week starts the first World Series in Chicago in 46 years. The city was safer in '59. Doubt 150,130 0r 75 guys and gals will be sitting 9-5 on their asses at the academy all week. Maybe next week. GO F'n SOX
You want coppers that can write adequate minimal reports? You first need to make sure the bosses could even read them...
I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut Leroy Martin could not write a letter home from summer camp if his life depended on it.
TO: 10/20/2005 06:56:18 PM
FROM: A Sergeant in patrol
SUBJECT: Response to your comment
AMEN BROTHER!
I'm in my 20th year and have no college...it wasn't required when I came on. Having spent all of my career in patrol on the street, you can't tell me a college education makes you a better police officer!!
Free drinks on Det. Madden at Hippo's on 111th st. tonight!!
RE: The Preface to this Thread.
The City of Chicago, specifically the Department of Police, have succeeded in thoroughly corrupting the definition of the word "MERIT".
The City has so debased this word that a "merit promotion" is now an oxymoron.
When referring to CPD policy and practices, please use quotation marks when using the word "merit" or "meritorious".
Another acceptable option is to qualify this word with the adjective "so-called".
Thank you.
www.policepay.net
good site
check it out
A college education doesn't necessarily make you a better police officer...nor does being on the job for 20 years and being a street cop make you a genius....the education may complement some and be just a piece of paper for others....don't give education a bad rap....I am sure you don't tell your kids to finish high school and get a job...there are actually well educated street savvy police officers on our job as well as others who don't have the education that do a good job anyway....education is good..but that piece of paper doesn't a genius make.
Merit Donahue - LOL.
Sorry forgot merit Bella - LOL.
8:47...I didn't mean that a college education is a waste. My daughter just graduated college & I couldn't be prouder. I just don't think you can say 20 yrs of experience means less than a 10 yr patrolman with a masters degree. My point is that education should've been grandfathered in. you could have a degree in accounting & you're good to go. That makes no sense!!
I'm looking forward to next contract so that dicks can get D2B pay.
bull shit
Thanks for the clarification. it seems that the newer "college" Police are a lot lazier than they should be. Not all, but a good percentage.
Merit Donahue? You'd better check your facts, he was four ahead of me on the list,and I wasn't a meritorious anything
A better description of the newer "college police" would be "know-it-alls", as opposed to "lazy".
I've heard stories from Academy Instructors...every time they told the recruits to do something, they would question their authority, and then beef that they were "picking" on them.
Can you imagine what would have happened if we questioned any of the instructors back when we were in the academy (80s & early 90s)?
We would still be in the "leaning rest" position.
I will say one good thing or two about college cops though...at least it shows they have some form of discipline and ambition...and most of them can at least spell.
If you have browsed this site...you would see that they need "spell check" on this blog.
Manpower in districts already low!
This will really screw the working guy on the street. Get rid of those special units and the bullshit details. Wicker Park, Sox, TRU unit. Killing us, can't get a day off.
SPECIAL STUDY GROUPS!
ANOTHER QUESTION ALTOGETHER!
are you sure donahue was four ahead of you and not real close "behind" you
10/20/2005 04:34:13 PM
I, as a current Det, will enlighten a meager P.O. (as you so aptly put it) why the department and citizeens(sp) need more detectives.
Its all done just to personally annoy you. Now, for your own protection, I won't use your name here. But there is only one man that can think as critically as you do, or put such insightful and original thoughts into words. You should be careful. The intelligence of your post may reveal your identity. You see, Phil & Dana know that you are smarter than them. They know that you see the big picture and they don't. They live in a mighty fear that the masses will recognize your leadership and organizational skills. They have nightmares about the good citizeens(sp) carrying you to 35th Street on their shoulders and demanding that you be allowed to lead this hardworking organization. They want to create as many obstacles for you as possible. So, the answer is that its all a smoke screen to keep your eye off the ball. Just keep on keepin' it real and don't let the puzzle palace stop you from runnin' it all.
Quote by 4:34 p.m.: "I know I'll get clobbered, but....
Does the Department and the Citizeens of the City of Chicago REALLY need MORE Det's?
Can some current Det's enlighten us meager PO's on their workload? Such as number of cases and number of high priority cases?
I know hte bosses' kids need their high paying spots (they didnt study the correct answers for nothing), but do we need MORE Det's NOW?
(getting ready to be flamed)"
Workload varies from Area to Area:
Handouts per Day Average from what I Understand (including your days off):
Financial Crimes: 5-6
Burglaries: 4-5
SVU: 3-4
Robberies: 2-3
Agg Battery: 1-2
Homicide:When they happen
with an occasional Death Investigation.
Sex:1-2
Process Jobs occur EVERYDAY, depending on what unit you are in.
Investigative Alerts, Arrests by Patrol, Child Abuse Hotlines, Hot Cases, and Immediate Action Missing Persons, etc. all divert Detectives from their handouts.
When you are assigned process jobs, it takes you away from your handouts all day long. Sometimes a Detective will do TWO process jobs/Child Abuse Hotlines/Immediate Action Missing/Hot Cases in one day. If you work something that hot for several days straight your handouts continue to pile up same as coming off your days off.
So to answer your question yes more Detectives are needed. I don't think you need to be flamed because you don't know an answer to a question. You asked a legitimate question albeit with sarcasm by saying "enlighten us meager PO's" and that the boss' kids need their high paying spots.
The Area is not a "spot." The area is just like a district in patrol. Its the lowest end of the organization structure in the Detective Division.
Detectives do a lot of hard work and Yes they are working very hard these days just like you are.
The problem is there are people on this board that will not acknowledge under any circumstances that anyone other than a PO in a high crime district does any work.
We need more Detectives, Supervisors, and PO's!
Lets get something straight about the "Homicide" part of HGS. Sex detectives get sex cases and sex handouts. Gang detectives (at least where I work) get the non-fatal gang shootings and matching handouts. The "Homicide" detectives get every other job & handout that comes to our side of the floor. I think the "Homicide" thing is supposed to make you feel like a rock star. I much preferred it when we were plain old Violent Crimes. There may be a few det.'s that work only on murders, but the vast majority of us get murders and everything else. I get an average of two handouts a day (Mookie stabbed Bey-Bey and Tyreese hit his landlord with a brick) and process jobs, scenes, etc., along with my follow-up investigation. I'm not complaining, just explaining. Its a great job, but its not all that. If you are a self-motivated guy who works hard, it can be a very frustrating job. Why? Because like everywhere else on this job, the hardest thing to deal with is your co-workers. If you consider yourself a hardworking copper, who frustrates you the most at work? In a job with minimal supervision, cops like that run wild. I don't expect others to work the same way I do. There is more than one way to skin a cat. But I do expect everyone to try. When you see people do nothing for years and not get called on it, the frustration can build up. However, the nature of being a detective is minimal supervision. You're not going to be a rat fink and tell the supervisor this guy is a dog. The laziest dog in the world is still better than a rat fink. So when you work on things with lazy people, you just have to eat them. It's funny that you can always expect them to be right there next to you and your partner when overtime is involved. Ha! Ha!
Hey 6:07, get you facts straight. I work in SVU and it would be a pleasure to only get 2 processing jobs a day. Ever since the "merge" with the Det. Div, it's been nothing short of miserable.
The only time we get new people is when a new Det doesn't have enough juice to get himself over to HSG or RBT, or when a "problem child" from HSG or RBT gets dumped to us. Those that do get dumped can't help with the processing, since they aren't State certified.
Every time a new class goes in, we laugh and try to figure out which current Det will be joining us shortly, because we know we don't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting a new det.
On a good day, we have 6 people working, including 1 or 2 DV Dets. Then we can divvy up the 15-20 (yes 15 jobs) processing jobs that come in. We keep our fingers crossed that no hotlines or high risk missing comes in.
Most days there are 3-4 working, due to RDO's and furlos and at least 15 jobs, including processing, hotlines, high risk missing and the infamous 1 baggers and , my personal favorite, SUB.
SVU isn't a bad place to work and the overtime that can be made since we're so short, is almost endless.
I know the entire department is shorthanded and it doesn't look like it's gonna get any better, but Phil, share the wealth, will ya!
Anyone notice a differance with the quailty of recruits since the college requirement ?? Even with the college requirement they don't seem to be as good. Were we better of with someone with a common sense rather than book sense ??
To Above, I think you should of went to college. How do you spell difference? YOO IDIOT.
Hahahahahaha
"Should have went?" "yoo?"
You kill me
College can be a good thing if you're interested in being an administrator, etc...but saying it's required to be the police working the street??? give me the 25 yr street vet with a high school education or a G.E.D. anyday over the 5 yr college grad!!! COMMON SENSE CAN"T BE LEARNED FROM A BOOK!!
Its not really about college. College is another way of saying delayed responsibility. I've been on 15 years. The veteran P.O.'s I met when I came on had all seen a little bit of life before they became the police. Most of them were vet's and guys who had grown up in Chicago. Many of the young P.O.'s I meet today seem to have done the 5 year extended college thing and then lived at home, working some B.S. job, waiting to get hired. I can't believe how many of them are suburbanites. They don't seem very mature or maybe they "lack perspective" is a better term. They don't seem to really sink their teeth into police work. I've always thought good cops become almost a part of street life, they're as involved with it as the thugs. But these kids seem like they're on a field trip to the west side. I think the city has made an effort to change the culture of the department. They want non-confrontational report writers. An old guy I know calls them the poodle police. The end of rotating watches changed the job too. On midnights you're a veteran with 3 years on. That loss of mentoring has hurt a lot. These things don't apply to everyone. I know some people worked their way through school and some suburbanites do make good cops, but there definitely is some truth to this...
all the suck holes are chiming in on this one,."Am on gonna be on the list? have I sucked enough butt in my 3 year career?"I am sick of working this desk, I wanna wear a suit and act like Dick Tracy" PUDS! The real warriors out there won't make dick, just the lame ass sucks
9:53 has some good points. The department lost a lot when they went to straight shifts. There is no more mentoring of young officers by veteran officers. The old timers will never be willing to go back to some type of rotation. That is why 2nd watch throughout all of patrol is the retirement watch. Rotating in some way or form would be beneficial for us and the department. Will anyone listen to it's merits: NO we will go the status quo!
If you're a hot broad there seems to be plenty of mentoring opportunities on 2nd watch and the tact team.
"Anyone notice a differance with the quailty of recruits since the college requirement ?? Even with the college requirement they don't seem to be as good. Were we better of with someone with a common sense rather than book sense ??"
10/21/2005 06:51:35 AM
Why do you assume that someone with "book sense" doesn't have common sense? Are you saying that all the police who joined the Department with no more education than a high school diploma/GED have common sense? Personnally, I do not find this to be the case.
I started with the Department long before the education requirement was instituted. I do not see a significant difference in the attitude or common sense between the college police and those officers who do not have a college education. There are plenty of street wise officers and clueless cops in both groups.
Let's not denigrate the educated. After all, with the current explosion in the number of diploma mills, college degrees are bought these days, not earned. The difference between these two groups of officers, on the whole, is negligible.
I'm a Sgt. in a fast district. Most of the good, agressive young coppers that work for me are from the suburbs. The fact is there aren't too many white neighborhoods left in the city to recruit white police. The places that are left(Mt.Greenwood and N/W side) are more or less suburbs anyway.
9:55 I'm no detective but I can detect that your a borderline retard and a jealous pud. Just because you are too God damned dumb to get ahead on this job, don't spew about warriors etc. Some of the best P.O.s I've know on this job have gotten promoted to Det. and Sgt. Why? Because they actually have the KNOWLEDGE to pass the test! I'm so sick of "bad test takers". This means one of two things: 1) You know the job, but you don't read and write well enough a.k.a. you are dumb 2) You don't know the G.O. and other info required for the position.
Fact of the matter is you need to be able to do both of the above to be a good det. or boss. Thats why most merit guys suck.
Quote" "Anonymous said...
Hey 6:07, get you facts straight. I work in SVU and it would be a pleasure to only get 2 processing jobs a day. Ever since the "merge" with the Det. Div, it's been nothing short of miserable.
The only time we get new people is when a new Det doesn't have enough juice to get himself over to HSG or RBT, or when a "problem child" from HSG or RBT gets dumped to us. Those that do get dumped can't help with the processing, since they aren't State certified.
Every time a new class goes in, we laugh and try to figure out which current Det will be joining us shortly, because we know we don't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting a new det.
On a good day, we have 6 people working, including 1 or 2 DV Dets. Then we can divvy up the 15-20 (yes 15 jobs) processing jobs that come in. We keep our fingers crossed that no hotlines or high risk missing comes in.
Most days there are 3-4 working, due to RDO's and furlos and at least 15 jobs, including processing, hotlines, high risk missing and the infamous 1 baggers and , my personal favorite, SUB.
SVU isn't a bad place to work and the overtime that can be made since we're so short, is almost endless.
I know the entire department is shorthanded and it doesn't look like it's gonna get any better, but Phil, share the wealth, will ya!
10/21/2005 06:50:04 AM"
Most of your 15-20 process jobs a day are NOT processes in which you contact Felony Review. If they were there would be NO WAY that you could pull that off without BIG OVERTIME. I know all about SVU. I will not diminish the work that You do. I will however state that when I said 2 processes in one day I mean calling out an A.S.A., interviewing all parties involved and handling the case to ensure that the case is ready for review by an A.S.A.
You don't call an A.S.A. for P.C.S. or S.U.B. do you?
Two juvenile processes a day I would love to take myself. You can't be seriously suggesting that 2 Juvenile Processes are equivilant to 2 felony review processes in the amount of time it takes to complete.
Like I said, I have respect for the work that you do, but for you to come out and tell me to "get you [sic] facts straight" is disrespectful to me when all I tried to do is explain the need for more Detectives.
You handle 2 felony upgrades a day? Yeah right. You have respect for the Detectives in SVU? Go tell it to some 5 year old who still believes in Santa Claus.
I'll bet given a choice of working in SVU or going back to a district, you'd go back to a district. Wouldn't want to loose that HGS "glow", now would we?
Face it. The powers that be are never going to allow the rank and file numbers to go back to 13,000 plus. It's easier to move people around than it is to hire and train quality people for this job.
And that's another problem all by itself. What's with all these college educated, yet common sense-lacking, whiney idots that are coming out of the academy? Makes me long for the good old days of 17 years ago when I first came on....
Makes me long for the good old days of 17 years ago when I first came on....
-----------------------------------
Remember when middle-class people lived in this city and raised their families here. Do you remember when there where real stores along Western, and there was no section 8 housing? Yeah you old-timers have done such a great job. You locked up so many a-holes that they decided to go straight or move away. The good old days when instead of properly investigating and articulating a crime you would just D/C everything.
If you have any constructive criticism then let's hear it. You are the Veitnam/Cold War/8-track generation, and it's over. We are the 9/11/Accountabilty/Cameras Everywhere generation. Adapt or die(retire).
The world ,American society, policing has changed. It's not our fault, we weren't running a damn thing. You were.
WE GOT A HOSEMOUSE HERE IN A NORTHSIDE DISTRICT. 15 PLUS YEARS ON AND 14 OF THEM WORKING THE DESK. SHE'S GONNA BE A DETECTIVE REAL SOON. COMING SOON TO AN AREA NEAR YOU.
She'll have an inside job in no time. Hey! D2A for the same worthless shit I was doing before. My brilliance has been recognized! Next up, a Sat/Sun D.O.G. on 2nd watch.
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