Promotional Exams (again)
Another in a continuing series of posts to provoke debate, inform the readers and maybe point out to the media how screwy this city really is.
A reader dropped us a line recently. He (or she) is currently on the Sergeant's list, under 100 in numerical rank. According to the letter, the reader started out somewhere between 350 and 390, usually NOT a bad place to be, but this list is getting stale and the rumors are flying about a new test (our sources say spring 2007). The question came up that as the city is in possession of a list of qualified candidates, wouldn't it make more sense for them to establish a minimum number of people that they would take from the list rather than spend the $4 million dollars it takes to produce a new list of qualified people?
We've written a few articles on promotional exams and pointed out how other organizations do it (set a threshold number and take that number off the list). We've pointed out that as younger clout babies become eligible to take exams, tests seem to be given in conjunction with their anniversary dates. Does anyone think the taxpayers would appreciate the spending of tax dollars a little more wisely in terms of exhausting a list before tearing it down? Of course, then you have the opposite end of the spectrum with the fire department not holding an exam for a decade AND (could someone explain this one?) carrying over certain well qualified candidates to the next exam.
A reader dropped us a line recently. He (or she) is currently on the Sergeant's list, under 100 in numerical rank. According to the letter, the reader started out somewhere between 350 and 390, usually NOT a bad place to be, but this list is getting stale and the rumors are flying about a new test (our sources say spring 2007). The question came up that as the city is in possession of a list of qualified candidates, wouldn't it make more sense for them to establish a minimum number of people that they would take from the list rather than spend the $4 million dollars it takes to produce a new list of qualified people?
We've written a few articles on promotional exams and pointed out how other organizations do it (set a threshold number and take that number off the list). We've pointed out that as younger clout babies become eligible to take exams, tests seem to be given in conjunction with their anniversary dates. Does anyone think the taxpayers would appreciate the spending of tax dollars a little more wisely in terms of exhausting a list before tearing it down? Of course, then you have the opposite end of the spectrum with the fire department not holding an exam for a decade AND (could someone explain this one?) carrying over certain well qualified candidates to the next exam.
posted by SCC at 9:46 PM
82 Comments:
The media doesn't give a damn. They know all about the chicanery and fraud. Sadly, many coppers with diminshed expectations are apathetic.
2 #'s - 1st & da 16th
PATHETIC
The problem is not necessarily the number but the fact that the person who contacted you would be a Sgt by now if not for merit picks. I am in the same boat as that person. I am currently on the Sgt list and they have made more Sgts then my rank number but I still haven't got made because of merit. Happened to me last time too. If the merit picks were legit they should be posted. I know for a fact of one person currently in Det/Sgt training who scored over 100 points more then me and they will be a Sgt Before me. If it sounds like I'm complaining maybe I am a little. I sucks taking a test and knowing I am already Down 30 percent. But I will not give up. I will keep taking these tests until I pass or retire.
While there are outstanding officers who take pride in professionalism and excellence, the CPD will remain a mediocrity, at best. Politics has had a stranglehold on the morale of this police department for generations.
Don't expect any help from the FOP, local news media or the clueless public.
The politician and exempt political hacks will do anything to preserve the staus quo.
I wish I could be optimistic. Barring a miracle from Brennan and/or Fitzgerald, morale is non-existent.
Even the rank and file cannot agree on focusing on the insidious cancer that eats away at the heart and soul of the CPD: POLITICAL PATRONAGE, NEPOTISM and CRONYISM.
maybe the bottom line is: many have said that "testing" does not produce the best supervisors/detectives, etc., and that, to a certain extent, is true. Now we have testing plus a percentage "merit" component, which is total bullshit. I really don't think that the merit % is being used to satisfy the liberal/diversity crowd, but is being used to its fullest extent by the political crowd (both inside and outside the dept.) to take care of its/their pets. I'm not sure of "the answer", but maybe it comes down to one of two choices: 1) the dept. chooses one of the best testing firms in the US, develops and administers the exam, then lives by the results, no excuses, or 2) the dept. gives an exam, scores it so low that everyone passes (another example of the "dumbing down" of America), theh selects candidates for promotion by random lottery. An aside....wouldn't that be a great idea for law and medical schools to do the same thing....hey, my doctor won the lottery (getting into med school and geting his MD)....maybe that same Doc can treat Beavers....
Merit promotions? OK, we can have merit promotions, but only one bite of the merit apple. There are people who've been made merit detective, merit sergeant, and merit lieutenant. Since Captain is an appointed position, it is only a matter of time before one of the triple winners gets double bars. How do they 'merit' so much anyway?
They NEVER set any ground rules like what a passing score is or how many they will promote
They NEVER reveal any answers or scores or anything
Its ALL a BIG secret EVERYTHING is under wraps
Its sickening and slaps the face of every hard working copper in the city
Even the not so hard working are just thrown by the wayside
Its terrible Its screws us and screws the public ( many of whom want and deserve this crap)
I cant wait to retire
BEST IDEA ONLY ONE MERIT PROMOTION IN A CAREER. FURTHER IF YOU GET MERITORIUS PROMOTION AND YOUR A SCREW BALL. THE PERSON WHO PICKED YOU IS HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
There you go again, trying to apply logic to anything this department does
Definitely agree and have said for years that only one meritorious promotion should be allowed per career. Its appalling for somebody with clout to make it all the way up the ladder on phone calls.....its obvious how some of these people get promoted but the question begs....how did they get on the job????
1 in 6 uniformed members of the NYPD are Detectives. A Detective’s (3rd Grade) average earning is
$88,000* (Promotion to Detective is not based on a promotional exam, it’s based on merit)
I believe you will see this in the very near future starting here with LT'S
WELL, ITS STARTS WITH THE FOP (WHOS ELECTED OFFICIALS ALL MAKE CAPTAINS PAY OR ABOVE). ONE OF THE THINGS THEY SHOULD BE FIGHTING FOR IS AT LEAST A DEFINITION OF MERIT. WHAT IS MERIT?? GETTING SHOT, SHOOTING SOMEONE, A GREAT PINCH, A LIFE TIME OF GOOD SERVICE??? THATS THE PROBLEM....NO SET MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS FOR MERIT. NO DEFINITION AT ALL. AND THEY SHOULD BE FIGHTING FOR THE RIGHT TO PUBLISH THOSE WHO MADE IT ON MERIT,, IF THEY'RE SO PROUD TO PUT THEM IN FOR MERIT.....SHOW THEM OFF, BE PROUD THAT A PERSON MADE IT ON MERIT....THE FIREMAN DEPT. PUBLISHES THOSE WHO MADE IT ON MERIT...SOME DESERVE, SOME DONT....WHEN U FILL OUT THOSE BS QUESTIONAIRRES ABOUT WHAT U WANT FROM THE CONTRACT, MAKE THIS A #1 PRIORITY...IF THEY DONT, DUMP THE FOP...THERE ARE PLENTY OF OTHER ORG'S WE CAN START TO GET WHAT WE WANT. SEE WE HOLD THE CARDS, IF U GET EVERYONE ON THE SAME PAGE.....WE, WE, WE SHOULD BE RUNNING THIS CITY, NOT THEM...BUT THEY KNOW TO DIVIDE & CONQ., SO IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. SEE THE FOP IS NOT, NOT A UNION (A UNION USES THE STRIKE TO GET WHAT THEY WANT). WE ARE A BARGAINING UNIT, PAYING PO'S BIG MONEY TO BARGIN FOR US. nd why cant WE DICTATE THE RULES FOR THE PROMOTIONAL TESTS. THE 1ST PART IS PASS FAIL - OK NO PROBLEM, BUT SHOULDN'T WE KNOW BEFORE TAKING THE TEST WHAT A PASS IS, AND WHAT A FAILING SCORRE IS?? COME ON, EVEN IF WE SAID 60% IS PASSING, AT LEAST WE KNOW WHAT IT IS GOING IN. THEY WAIT UNTIL AFTER THE TEST TO TELL U WHAT THE PASSING SCORE IS!!! AND ALL U NEED TO DO TO BE A MERIT CONSIDERATION IS PASS THE 1ST PART. THAT MEANS U DONT EVEN NEED TO SHOW UP FOR THE 2ND PART TO GET MADE ( U COULD GET A 0%). AND WE ALL KNOE THAT THE 2ND PART IS MORE CHALLENGING...AT MINIMUN U SHOULD HAVE TO SCORE A CERTAIN AMOUNT ON THE 2ND PART TO BE A MERIT....BUT KEEP WAITING FOR THE 1ST & THE 16TH!!!! WAKE UP PEOPLE!!
"We've pointed out that as younger clout babies become eligible to take exams, tests seem to be given in conjunction with their anniversary dates."
Oh please. With the number of "clout babies" running around, do you really think that this could possibly be true? There are too many people who are the sons and daughters of bosses. To think that exams are planned around "clout babies" is ridiculous.
What's your other prediction - there is a 50/50 chance that it may rain tomorrow?
Tact teams 016 on survielance at cumberland and Foster Friday night for narcotics. I think I saw Larry Hoover watchin the tips in 1614 beat. Cabrini West huh?
Let me start by saying I have 19 yoj and have been promoted to Sgt. I made Sgt. off the list, no merit, when I had 15 yoj. I was disgruntled like most of you seeing merit babies who were lucky they could find their way to work making rank. You can't let the stuff eat you up.
The courts have ruled that the unions basically can't get involved with the promotional processes because it is the right of the city to promote how it wants. I know FOP files on behalf of disgruntled P.O.'s but that is an individual beef with the city.
Really if you want the promotion just keep trying and there is satisification that you made it on your own. It is something the merit babies will never understand.
I know I wasn't allowed to take the last Lt. exam because I didn't have my year in grade to sit. Kind of bummed me out because I knew the list would be up for at least 4 years and I would have my time in grade. Not sure I would have made it but I wanted the experience and was willing to pay my $25 for it. New test coming in 2006 I'm told. I think they will at least let me sit for it this time.
I'm a Sgt. Made it legit. What a feeling to see that score and know you will someday make it.
You clout heavy suckholes who make rank b/c of who you know, and haven't done a damn thing for this dept. should be ashamed of yourselves....and each and every one of you know who you are.
To those of you who think the system is not legit (other than the 30%), you are wrong. Do well on the tests (i.e. dick, et, sgt., lt.) and the city can't stop you. STUDY! Pick up a G.O. once in awhile instead of b.s.-ing with your partner all damn day. Don't wait for an announcement, start reading now and prepare. And for the love of God, get in school! ON THE CITY'S DIME NO LESS!!
Remember it is more than 30% that get merit promotions. The bosses know what is going to be on the test. Dont tell me that dont give their tubby, balding kid and his friends the "heads up" and what to study.
I think that bumps the merit number up to 50%.
Ever see who scored in the top 20 on both the sgt's and lieutenant's exams? If you did you believe every word I wrote.
Give tests frequently and often. There is another way of looking at it. It gives people who did not do as well the opportunity to try again and study harder. Giving tests more frequently is not always negative, sometimes it can even be good for morale.
On a hangover with minimal studying I hit in the 400's. Here's a clue for you. When they announce a test and issue a list of orders to study, know the ones that have the cute little " * " next to them. Know your caps crap too. Don't waste your time reading the other listed orders, those are there to distract you and get you off track. Save yourself some time and frustration by doing that.
Once they announce the "merit nominations" there seems to be a line forming at each bosses door with their phones ringing off the hook. Little do these folks know that they're wasting their time. The bosses already know who they're submitting even before the nominations announcement. It saddens me as to how many coppers go in there whoring themselves and walking away with a verbal handjob. Some of these guys a hard workers too! I'd love to see a few of them get made, but then again, they don't have the right friends or phone calls.
One merit promotion is enough and shame on anyone who gets/takes more...
The thread was about tearing down the list. Why is the list (if true) being teared down so early. I scored in the 500's and thought I had a chance (fool such as I). On the previous 2 lists didnt they pull over 500 off the list. New test waste of money at this point. 4 million pays for 100 new cops for a year.
So if 500 Sgts have been promoted so far, with merit and scam promotions that makes about 200-250 legit. So, not even the top legit 10 percent scores have a chance. Pathetic and demoralizing. I hope the rumor is false!!!
A mayor crying poor. Raise taxes, cut benefits. Heres 4 million for a new unnecessary Sgt. test. Put the money back into our pension fund. Be FAIR and give the high LEGIT scorers a chance.
I know this is off thread, but Spielman wrote an excellent race baiting article in todays Sun Times. Its seems 18 black women will lose their jobs if a certain agency privatizes. Ol' Fran puts racism in quotes and pumps it up nicely. Of course the media don't have an agenda.
http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-women19.html
She's a Northwestern graduate. A fine institution with no agenda against the police at all. Northwestern Hospital won't let the police travel outside of the common area without a security guard escort. They say they don't want armed people roaming the hallways.
I have been made merit three times--detective, sgt and lt. I figure to make it four soon to capt or commander soon. Try sucking some cock and stop complaining and maybe you too can get a white shirt.
"Do well on the tests...and the city can't stop you. STUDY!" - 6:12:18 AM
Oh, really? Thanks for your tip, "boss". Time for your thorazine.
Unless and until the city gives an unequivocal and acceptable definition of so-called "merit" criteria, no "merit" promotions whatsoever. The promotional process must be transparent to all.
Also, I propose that all professional police officers refer to the city's abomination as "management discretion" rather than "merit" promotions.
Until the City started using the term, the word "merit" referred to a system in which the talented are chosen and promoted on the basis of achievements--the best and the brightest. Now it's synonymous with the depth that the unworthy can get their tongues inside the colons of politicians and the brass.
11:20, Where was the merit selection initiated-----thats right it started with CFD, in their contract. So is their union leadership blacklisted. PS they also started contributions to the health care insurance.. CFD a real union----my ass!
$88,000 FOR 3RD grade dt in NY sounds like a lot of money to cpd but it's not that much when you live and work in NY.
PROBABLY SHOULDN'T SAY THIS.
I MADE SGT OFF THE LIST. YES, I STUDIED MY BUTT OFF. THOUGHT I DID POOR ON THE TEST (part 2), STILL MADE IT. CAN YOU BELIEVE WITH A SCORE OF LESS THEN 70% YOU WOULD STILL HAVE MADE SGT. THE TOTAL # OF POINTS WAS 197 IF YOU SCORED 135 YOU'D BE MADE. (and a couple a classes ago) I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A INQUIREY AS TO WHO SCORES THESE TESTS AND HOW.
CRAP, I RAN OUT OF TIME DURING THE TEST AND HAD TO SCRAMBLE FOR THE LAST 4 OR 5 QUESTIONS.
ANYONE KNOW WHAT % YOU NEED TO HAVE MADE LT.
Again, an officer's record of Part I felony arrests should be critical is assessing actual merit. First, it is a truly objective index to past achievements of the officer, regardless of assignments, ethnicity or gender. The officer may be currently assigned to administrative duties. However, a prior background of prolific felony arrests would indisputably demonstrate that the officer has paid his/her dues and is worthy of respect.
Also, standardized intelligence and psychological tests such as the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI) should be used to screen out the dull-witted and the sociopaths. It's bad enough that such individuals are even sworn personnel, let alone supervisors and above.
If some of the posts at this blog site are in fact the drivel and rants of actual police officers, God help us!
CFD MEMBERS ALSO GET POINTS FOR TIME ON THE JOB. WHY DOESN'T FOP
TRY TO GET THE SAME FOR SENIOR OFFICERS. IT'S USUALLY ONLY A COUPLE OF POINTS THAT CAN MAKE A GUY. OR HOW ABOUT GETTING POINTS OR HALF POINTS FOR JOBS WELL DONE. THEY CAN KEEP THEIR RIBBONS, I'D RATHER RETIRE WITH A BETTER PENSION.
If we want to get rid of the 30% "merit" during the next contract negotiations, what are we prepared to give up?
You know the city will want something in exchange and something big.
Any ideas?
To the chump that has made meritorious all the way up...this job ends some day and all you have left is the respect of your peers....being a suck ass will follow you the rest of your life
I think that post was sarcasm.
Oh please. With the number of "clout babies" running around, do you really think that this could possibly be true? There are too many people who are the sons and daughters of bosses. To think that exams are planned around "clout babies" is ridiculous.
-------------------
since you are not so smart, we'll explain how it works. The trick is to get a bunch of them in the same academy class. The moment you sit your ass down in that chair in that building, they already know where they are going to put you. So, yes, it is possible to have tests around certain dates.
To those of you who think the system is not legit (other than the 30%), you are wrong. Do well on the tests (i.e. dick, et, sgt., lt.) and the city can't stop you. STUDY! Pick up a G.O. once in awhile instead of b.s.-ing with your partner all damn day. Don't wait for an announcement, start reading now and prepare. And for the love of God, get in school! ON THE CITY'S DIME NO LESS!!
-------------------------
......and get the answers from the supr sekret studi grp!
HAHAAHA
There is nothing legit to this dept.
Once they announce the "merit nominations" there seems to be a line forming at each bosses door with their phones ringing off the hook. Little do these folks know that they're wasting their time. The bosses already know who they're submitting even before the nominations announcement. It saddens me as to how many coppers go in there whoring themselves and walking away with a verbal handjob. Some of these guys a hard workers too! I'd love to see a few of them get made, but then again, they don't have the right friends or phone calls.
11/19/2005 08:40:49 AM
--------------------------
He's absolutly correct. When the boss asks you at *roll call* if any one want to be selected merit, have some pride and leave your hand down. If your going to make it on merit, they will tell you over diner, or call your home.
But they need suckers. So all those fools lining up at the bosses office are just that, fools. The whole merit-scam would be stinking out in the open if it wasnt for you!
Anonymous said...
CFD MEMBERS ALSO GET POINTS FOR TIME ON THE JOB. WHY DOESN'T FOP
TRY TO GET THE SAME FOR SENIOR OFFICERS. IT'S USUALLY ONLY A COUPLE OF POINTS THAT CAN MAKE A GUY. OR HOW ABOUT GETTING POINTS OR HALF POINTS FOR JOBS WELL DONE. THEY CAN KEEP THEIR RIBBONS, I'D RATHER RETIRE WITH A BETTER PENSION.
11/19/2005 12:31:57 PM
---------------------------
Never gonna happen. The Shity wants younger sgts. Ther are easier to scare. Old Time Sgt's would be more inclined to tell them to get bent.
Anonymous said...
I think that post was sarcasm.
11/19/2005 01:13:49 PM
--------------
YA THINK??
^^^^^
now that's sarcasm!
hahahahhah
Many years ago, as a white kid just out of college, I was assigned to Fillmo'. Some of my best teachers were the brothas...guys like PO Otis Thames, now enjoying his retirement in Tennessee. Otis had transferred into 011 from 002 and was somewhat of a poet. I'd like to share his "Wabash Walls" with all of you. As some of you recall, 002 used to be located at the SW corner of 48th St. and WABASH Ave. Now the pictures may be found on the walls of 5101 S. Wentworth.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
WABASH WALLS - Otis Thames
Send me to the subway, give me three without pay.
But please don't hang my picture on Wabash walls.
It's not because I wouldn't want to stand roll call with Kelly, Caldwell and Black(*),
It's because if you go to their roll call, you'll never come back.
If you are not careful going on disturbance calls,
Your picture will hang on the Wabash walls.
You say that you've been on the job for some time,
And you know your way around.
You know all of the tough guys and how to settle them down.
It's not always a nineteen Paul,
It's the husband and wife and their Saturday night brawl.
So if you're not careful going on disturbance calls,
Your picture will hang on the Wabash Disrict walls.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
(*) While the names of fallen comrades Mike Ceriale, Curtis Baker, Larry Vincent, Tom Kelly (TF-1), Frank Rappaport (003), John Gilhooly, Joe Ferguson, William Bell and Sam Hall may be more familiar to you, (Samuel) Black and (Ezra) Caldwell were shot and killed on a domestic disturbance call in 1944. Philip Kelly was killed in 1939.
Sorry to intrude on your "merit" promotion thread, but I did want to share Otis' poetry with all of you.
Now if someone can only come up with the "Miranda warnings" as written by former Area 4 Homicide Det. Booker T. Porter, you will laugh your asses off.
Have a nice weekend, guys.
Yes 135 out of 197 is less then 70% but guys in the FIRST class of 50 off this list scored in the 150's meaning some guys scored under 80%. I wonder what the top score was. 135 you actually didnt do to bad after it is scaled.
2:24 PM
Thanks for sharing Wabash Walls. We need more stuff like that.
Qualified?
I keep seeing the word intermingled with promotion and city of chicago.
Qualified?
stop reading into it.
It means limited, stipulated...
eligible for promotion by the blessing of the superintendent of police and the mayor.
It's a sham, ludicrous, joke of skill and ability. Always take the tests. You may get lucky, like dropping the soap in the communal shower. If you believe in "qualified" you are not the police. Study my ass. How do you beat the answer boys?
"...so how do you beat the answer boys."
Do you honestly think no one gets promoted because they studied? Yes there is "meritorious," and lets assume for the sake of argument that some people get clued in on the answers (although I think this is probably mostly bullsh1t nowadays since they are written, administered, and graded by Ernst & Young or other groups outside the dept.)....Even with that- PEOPLE DO MAKE IT BY STUDYING. Is it less people than it should be? Yes, absolutley. But study hard enough and you can beat the meritorious 30%, and even beat the theoretical "answer boys."
I did well on the latest dick's test and all I heard was all sorts of crap about "there were x number of people who got perfect scores, and they all worked at 35th st.... blah blah blah." Based on talking to someone who claims to know the person ranked number 1- NO ONE GOT A PERFECT SCORE. I know I didn't have the answers, and I was either smart, lucky, or studied hard enough to insure a spot. Yes its BS that people get promoted ahead of those who did worse on the test, so do even better. Score in the top 5%- I'm sure you'll get the job...
UNTILL YOU HAVE THE EXAM SCORED IN FRONT OF YOU AND YOU WALK OUT W/ A SCORE IN ONE HAND AND A COPY OF THE TEST IN THE OTHER IT WILL NEVER, EVER, BE LEGIT.
Some guys forget and some never were around...
only a few questions, obscure and vague are all the answer boys need to remember providing they are the average study types of P.O.s.
For example how high should the fence be around a quarry...
Throw three or four of these gems into the mix and, if the answer boys can remember them, they are hundreds of names above the rest.
The last true scored on the spot dicks exam was back in what 79???
Around there, and one question could mean over one hundred slots on the list.
Answers don't mean all of them only a few zingers, the ones most people would never think of being important.
Those belong to the answer boys and sons of clout , they DO tip the scale and that's no error
It is called paranoia, nobody has any definitive evidence that people were given test answers.
Right now, it is all rumor and innuendo.
Merit is a disease only cured through contact negotiations. That is a future fight. Tearing down the list early is something that maybe if we stick together (i know i know)maybe we could change. Didnt contacting the aldermen about BT cars being pulled from districts change that procedure. Power of the BLOG. Even though it doesnt affect me now I would like to think if I scored in the top 500 on the next test I would make it. I agree their should be some fairness....
4:55:54 PM
Don't get me started.
I have absolute, incontrovertible evidence that the City of Chicago rigged a promotional exam for the rank of lieutenant of police by providing trick answers to successful candidates.. I will even offer my $1,000.00 cash to your chocolate doughnut if you can prove me wrong.
A leopard does not change his spots.
To "collect your grand", contact me at cpdfop7@yahoo.com.
Otherwise, shut up, "boss"!
Tom McSharry is coming back to the cpd !! one less merit sgt. to worry about, and he's going to 022. Good luck boys and girls
Don't eat the chocolate donut, Northside. It's a stale freebie from Dunkin' Donuts.
tom mcsharry was put on the end of a hook and used as bait in a sewer
Didnt 7200 cops take the first part of the last Sgt test. That means only the top legit 3-4 percent made it if scam promotion and merit is true.
For those of you who always feel the need to bash 022 I just want to tell them thanks for the excellent response todays date a little awhile ago on some suspicious non-resident people in the north alley of 111th st between Central Pk and Drake. Numerous squads showed up and took care of the problem. Thanks for a job well done.
Anonymous said...
If we want to get rid of the 30% "merit" during the next contract negotiations, what are we prepared to give up?
You know the city will want something in exchange and something big.
Any ideas?
Yeah let sgive up two suck asses from every district, please name them accordingly 001 etc.
Scc start a thread "name the biggest kiss asses in every district. I think that would be amusing!
Whats up with the open thread... not working correctly? cant post anything anymore!
07:32
good idea, it would be about 30 percent!
or 30 + 20 =50% there you have the numbers.... Now lets start talking.
Retired Capt. John Roberts (He and his brother do the big study groups) Related he heard new LTS. test in the spring 2006. SGTS Test in the summer?
Did anyone here other rumors? From who?
"Anonymous said...
1 in 6 uniformed members of the NYPD are Detectives. A Detective’s (3rd Grade) average earning is
$88,000* (Promotion to Detective is not based on a promotional exam, it’s based on merit)
I believe you will see this in the very near future starting here with LT'S
11/19/2005 01:01:46 AM"
You should know a couple of things about that number. First, you are probably including overtime pay. Below is the salary structure. It wouldn't post across in a table, so, hopefully, you can easily figure out who is getting what. Top base pay is a bit more than 72K a year.
One interesting thing to note is that there is also a grade of "detective specialist". This includes people with the ESU and other types who would be essentially equivalent to our D2 grades and, I believe, goes so far as to include tactical officers, narcotics officers, etc. The PBA in New York ONLY handles the rank of police officer, if you got promoted to anything else, you become a detective specialist and the Detective Endowment Association represents you.
A new salary structure for newly appointed third grade detectives,
Effective
1/1/06
Effective
2/15/06
Effective
2/15/07
Entry level salary
$ 60,500
$ 62,315
$ 64,278
End of first year
$ 60,800
$ 62,624
$ 64,596
End of second year
$ 61,100
$ 62,933
$ 64,915
End of third year
$ 61,400
$ 63,242
$ 65,234
End of fourth year
$ 61,700
$ 63,551
$ 65,552
End of fifth year
$ 62,000
$ 63,860
$ 65,871
End of sixth year
$ 67,992
$ 70,032
$ 72,238
One last thing to note here is that Chicago is not the only city in which you need clout, i.e. merit promotion, I'm quite sure and I've told that it happens in New York and every other place. Appointment to detective first grade is based upon a number of factors, but you can bet that their definitions of merit promotions are very similiar to ours.
to: 11/19/2005 03:22:31 PM
"
I think this is probably mostly bullsh1t nowadays since they are written, administered, and graded by Ernst & Young or other groups outside the dept.)....
"
As if you don't know, the test questions and answers are created my the Gold Stars and other special bosses OF THIS DEPARTMENT.
It would be quite esay for them to leave the answers on a desk somewhere on 35th st for their buddies to "look" at it for "only" 5 min before it got shipped via armored truck to E&Y. C'mon you remember how you did it in grammer school!
and if you are so good at taking promo test, will you offer us dumb-dumbs a study group??
When building a test there are several steps which must be taken, first a job task analysis - which is when you will see Sergeants, Lt's and Capt's being called down as a group - they measure the frequency, difficulty and importance of issues for the rank being tested... then those issues are matched up with the orders/rules/laws etc. and the test is built.
Anyone can figure out what will be questioned after the "study list" is put out, just look at the orders, figure out the frequency, difficulty and importance of tasks from the department's (not necessarily equal to the rank and file) standpoint...
Secondly, - you can lead the horse to water, but you can't make him drink - If you saw the test and all the answers, how many could you memorize in a few minutes out of 150 questions??? Even if you had the actual test, really, how many could you remember? You won't necessarily have the same test - they change the order of the questions in 3 or 4 different test packets...
Also, regarding study groups, there have been many study groups, people have been invited, people have requested to be invited and were... but you can only fit so many people in a room -
Secondly, many people join a study group, then find out how much work is involved and drop out - or just don't do the work...
You only get out of a study group what YOU put into it.
All too often, CPD promotional "study groups" is merely a euphemism for a cadre of informed cheaters of varying degrees.
In an acadenic setting, the concept of a "study group" is bizarre. Scholars study as individuals, not as "groups".
In this context, it further presumes that the most knowledgeable will be promoted. Balderdash!
Oh please. With the number of "clout babies" running around, do you really think that this could possibly be true? There are too many people who are the sons and daughters of bosses. To think that exams are planned around "clout babies" is ridiculous.
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since you are not so smart, we'll explain how it works. The trick is to get a bunch of them in the same academy class. The moment you sit your ass down in that chair in that building, they already know where they are going to put you. So, yes, it is possible to have tests around certain dates.
11/19/2005 02:06:36 PM
Wow, if this is the logic you use, then it's little wonder you sit here all day whining because you couldn't make a promotion based on your test score.
11/19/2005 05:09:03 PM
your bitterness is gonna give you a heart attack
Chicago Sun Times 16 November 2005
Article: Cops Entrance Exam to be offered 4 Times on internet
Qoute last paragraph: Jaqueline King (acting Personnel commissioner) said City Hall is looking at on-the-spot computerized scoring of police and fire entrance and promotional exams "down the road." But she said it wont be available this time because of issues related to the "reliability of the equipment."
Are you kidding me? Are we all this stupid to believe this nonsense. How can she even say this with a straight face. Isnt the first part of our promo tests scantron and computer graded. Havnt we all been taking these tests since the 70's. SAT, Act tests. Well, at least that explains why I didnt make it into Harvard. I knew it was a computer error!!!
seven years ago some of my College tests were administered on the computer. No problem back then... Dont almost all Colleges offer computer classes on the internet. They must have better equipment. Makes sense if u think about most PDTs dont work. Thats it, maybe we can take our next Prom tests in our squad cars on our PDTs....
Take another look at police exams
Charges of widespread cheating and incorrect grading on last year's Chicago Police Department lieutenant's examination are too serious for the city to ignore, especially when simple steps could be taken to reduce even the appearance of impropriety in the current examining process.
The Better Government Association, working in association with a group of angry police sergeants and WMAQ-TV, has charged that many of the 116 sergeants who passed the Police Department's examination for promotion to lieutenant last year received "complete correct answers in advance."
After viewing videotapes of 160 of the 852 oral tests given, the BGA concluded that the score sheets of 27 percent did not match the answers given.
Police officials declined to comment, even though the accusations raise serious questions, not only about the honesty of those who graded the test but also about the effectiveness of the testing process. BGA officials charge incompetence, while the leader of a group of angry sergeants who filed a federal lawsuit after the exam charge the test was rigged to help favorites of high-ranking police officials.
Either way, there are easy steps the department can take to restore the public confidence, internal morale and departmental credibility that have been damaged badly by this controversy.
The Daley administration and Police Supt. LeRoy Martin should investigate the charges and, if necessary, conduct the exams again--a difficult step, since the first wave of lieutenants already has received its promotions. At the very least, the department should change its testing procedures before any more oral exams are given, enlisting officers from other cities to serve as judges. That simple step, common in most other major cities, would make cheating vastly more difficult and erase any appearance of impropriety that might exist.
The oral exam took on tremendous importance after the Police Department made it count for 80 percent of the final test score in an effort to promote more minorities, who tend to do worse on written tests. If the new charges have any validity, the remedy may be worse than the malady.
Interestingly, BGA officials say the best-qualified candidates in each racial group may have been shortchanged. Without the best possible testing procedures, so is the public.
Even when the Tribune and WMAQ-TV learned that the rigging was documented as far more egregious than the editorial implies, both the newspaper and Peter Karl, then of WMAQ-TV, abandoned us to "twist slowly in the wind." Mr. Karl went as far as joining the city's payroll.
Meanwhile, Daley hand-picked a "blue-ribbon panel" of "outsiders" to "investigate".
Two years after the publicity evaporated, the "blue-ribbon panel" stated that there was "no evidence of wrongdoing". Ironically, none of the "angry sergeants" were allowed to appear before the committee with documented evidence of fraud. Instead, those that benefitted from the very process testified. They merely stated that it was a "bad test" and that the CPD will do better "next time".
Now, some sixteen years later, "acting personnel director" King indicates that reforms are somewhere "down the road" due to unreliable equipment.
Many of us have virtually foolproof, transparent remedies which are ignored by the city. The media knows that CPD testing is a historical fraud. Do not look for any help from the media.
The Chicago Tribune and Peter Karl are shameless. As long as garbage is picked up regularly and snowy arteries are shoveled, the public actually expects government corruption. After all, this is CHICAGO!.
Retirement is good. However, I feel so sorry for the active officers and the taxpayers who tolerate a system that spawns mediocrity, at best.
I hope Noelle Brennan does actually read this log.......
If the article is true how come no one is responding to it? Havent we all been asking for on the spot scoring. SCC... how come no thread on this topic????
we need more Wabash Walls!
Hey Northside can u say NOTIFY THE WATCH COMMANDER .... I did
as a Patrolman who was EXAMSCAMMED
I cannot agree with retired Sgt Northens coments more, nor could I have said it better myself.
To those who tell us to study harder, I say tell the city to give a legit test and then let's see how I do.
I also say, "wait until you have a little taste of the City's pee pee in one of your orifices and see if you like it any better than I did."
It is very disheartening to study and study and then get cheated out of a promotion due to the corruption of the city
Im glad I will be a pensioneer shortly
Good luck to all of you
Any thoughts on how many will be promoted off the new dets list...
they are at approx....323 on list(actual promotions off of sgt.list not including merit) add another 100 on to that and that is your total number...approx....425 or so TOTAL sgt. promotions including the merit. There WILL BE another class at least made off the current list!!! Think about it....they have to announce test,give test,grade part #1 of test give part #2 of test,grade part#2 of test,post results....that in itself is about a 8 month process so even if they "Give" a test in 2007 don't expect to see the results posted until 2008 or end of 2007...depending on when they give the test. That is a LONG time away....do you really think the city is not going to promote any sgt's untill then??? That is a tremendous liability on their part to not have adequate supervision....they will promote at least another 100 off this list guaranteed!! so all of you guys hovering around 425-450 on list ...you'll get made...just a matter of time...good luck!!
they are going to promote 100 det's sometime between Dec-Jan....real good source....Good Luck
To the 7:16 Poster: Thanks for the info on the SGTs list. I studied for that exam and if I make the next class it will be by score. I have no "juice" but I can tell you that I would be more than fair in dealing with the P Os.The CPD has a lot of talent so let's use it to our advantage. A safe tour of duty to all!
cant wait to retire......
all i hope is that they bump up the required years to 25 and 75 %. after that then this city can burn i mean who can believe this city won't without politics as usual
yours truley,
mayor daley
lets just hope the city can push through some qorking cops instead of these DESK people. god only knows that when the shit hits the fan you can't rely on how many i-bonds you wrote! hopefully those of us won't have to rely on these people to save us........
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