Time for a Change?
We noticed a comment in the thread titled "The List" questioning the wisdom of having two sergeants on the Board of Directors. One comment said "Welcome to FOP bargaining. Here we go again." As anyone who reads the contract knows, sergeants CANNOT negotiate for an active collective bargaining agreement because sergeants AREN'T covered by it. They can't even vote on it or serve on committees that deal with contract issues. We don't expect the new sergeants will resign as there is no by-law that requires it. Kubik never resigned when he made sergeant, so there is precedent for keeping their spot. In fact, in the National FOP, bosses or retirees take up at least two of the elected positions.
This also led us to do a little research and make a few phone calls. Counting the retirees and (when they are actually promoted sometime in February) the sergeants, fully ONE THIRD of the current board of directors is ineligible to negotiate any agreement for the membership. This would seem, to say the least, counterproductive. How can an operation run even minimally effectively if only 66% of the Board can meet to discuss issues relevant to the active members?
Perhaps it is time for a change. Maybe a couple of changes. Somewhere along the lines of retiree restrictions. Hear us out. How can the retirees justify having 6 (to be 7 shortly) spots on the Board of an ACTIVE labor organization that can't even negotiate anything for them? Short answer - they can't. There ought to be a restriction on the number of retirees spots on the Board, 3 or 4 tops. Otherwise, you detract from the ability of the Board to address issues important to the active membership.
Sergeants are another matter entirely. We know quite a few sergeants who are unhappy with the PBPA efforts during the recent (and still ongoing) contract negotiations. We know coppers who are unhappy with Baord members being made sergeant and reducing the flexibility of the Board. Maybe it's time to restrict the number or ability of sergeants to serve? Or perhaps it's time to get the sergeants their own lodge? At the very least, the Board ought to address these issues somehow, and soon.
This also led us to do a little research and make a few phone calls. Counting the retirees and (when they are actually promoted sometime in February) the sergeants, fully ONE THIRD of the current board of directors is ineligible to negotiate any agreement for the membership. This would seem, to say the least, counterproductive. How can an operation run even minimally effectively if only 66% of the Board can meet to discuss issues relevant to the active members?
Perhaps it is time for a change. Maybe a couple of changes. Somewhere along the lines of retiree restrictions. Hear us out. How can the retirees justify having 6 (to be 7 shortly) spots on the Board of an ACTIVE labor organization that can't even negotiate anything for them? Short answer - they can't. There ought to be a restriction on the number of retirees spots on the Board, 3 or 4 tops. Otherwise, you detract from the ability of the Board to address issues important to the active membership.
Sergeants are another matter entirely. We know quite a few sergeants who are unhappy with the PBPA efforts during the recent (and still ongoing) contract negotiations. We know coppers who are unhappy with Baord members being made sergeant and reducing the flexibility of the Board. Maybe it's time to restrict the number or ability of sergeants to serve? Or perhaps it's time to get the sergeants their own lodge? At the very least, the Board ought to address these issues somehow, and soon.
posted by SCC at 10:00 PM
49 Comments:
In regards to sergeants. To me it seems simple that once they achieve the new rank they should be replaced by a PO in whatever position they hold.
It does not seem like brain surgery to me but if they can no longer be involved in making decisions that involve the membership then they should no longer hold the position.
In the old days, when you got promoted to Sergeant, you had to resign... case in point.... Jim Spratte & Bruce Lipman were both board members and promoted, at which time, had to resign from the FOP Board
The fire dept Local 2 represents the first 3 or 4 ranks ( im not sure)
Id like to know the pros and cons of FOP representing the first 3 (non appointed) ranks for us.
Lieutenats and below
Another FOP trustee who was promoted to sergeant and resigned from the Board was Dominic Rizzi (now Lt.).
There is no valid reason at this time that a police officer who is promoted to sergeant should remain on the board. Their issues are different, not to mention the disciplinary issues that can lead to a conflict.
Kubik should have immediately been asked to resign from the Board as soon as he was promoted, but when you are a crony of Donahue that wasn't going to happen. The current FOP Board is not any improvement over any of the previous boards and the fact that they are willing to let sergeants remain on the Board without pushing them out, shows that they care little about the membership.
WHY RESIGN WHEN THEY GET PAID $500.00 A MONTH TO DO NOTHING.
BEST SIDE JOB OUT THERE.
This same board also voted to give the TOP 7 guy's an additional $500.00 a month in addition to their salary.
Disband the elected board and run area elections of district reps for board members and set up elections for spec units and detectives. Then we will have an INDEPENDANT AND DIVERSE BOARD as opposed to a Donahue/Nolan slate board.
FOP SUXXXXXXX!!!!
Fuc the FOP! LT. Rizzi Rocks.
You forgot the "K" in FUCK Dominic!
RIZZI,left a bad taste in your mouth!!!
hey, if its in the best interest of
the membership let a "boss" represent. Most P.O.s are dumb asses anyway. Sometimes coppers
need a little guidance from a
good guy like Dominic Rizzi.
"Boss" or no boss.
Question here; does a MERITORIOUS sergeant equal dumb ass P.O.?????
Your out of order and Im sure marky boy agrees with me. The FOP will do what ever it wants as long the mayor says its ok, and most importantly as long as we "The Members" of FOP stand around and do nothing about it. To many ass kissers on this department. Look at all the corruption regarding Bill Nolan.
I HEARD WHEN LT. RIZZI WAS A SERGEANT HE LEFT 008 AND WENT TO
PUBLIC HOUSING. OVER SIXTY (60)
OFFICERS MALE AND FEMALE FOLLOWED HIM TO THAT SHIT HOLE.THAT RIGHT THERE SAYS ALOT. SO YES LET A
SERGEANT BE INVOLVED IN THE FOP.
HELL THESE PEOPLE ARE LEADERS
THATS WHO WE NEED MAKING MAJOR
DECISIONS IN THE FOP.
Will Donahue ask soon to be Sgt. Majerzyk and Sgt. Voight to resign from the FOP Board of Directors? The next mystery is if they resign who will Donahue's new flunkies be that he appoints? Will he appoint previous members to the Board who the membership threw out during the last election, or new ones that will be loyal to him.
Rule 54B of the Rules & Regulations prevents supervisory personnel from membership in FOP Chicago Lodge 7 in that:
"Joining or retaining membership in, or soliciting other members to join any labor organization whose membership is composed of rank and file members of the Department, and whose purpose is to represent its members concerning wages, hours, and working conditions.."
"Supervisory personnel means any sworn member of the rank of sergeant and above."
kubik came onto the board as a po and chairman of the trustees, in the begining kubik challenged Donahue's attempt to control the board this was evident on the first issue. kubik made donahue back down on the detail as to when the trustees meeting was to take place. Donaue wanted one time and the trustees wanted another. Kubik and the trustees prevailed.
the more important issue was the trustees STOPPED the practice of the seven inside guys getting the $400.00 a month stipen paid to trustees. In the past in addition to Chief's pay and captain's pay for the seven full time insiders they also received the $400.00 per month. Kubik's group stopped that practice and Fallon was particularly upset.
However, when Kubik became sgt and was subject to removal as a trustee he became less critical of
the actions of the inside guys. Like Coach Caparelli getting a $1500.00 donation for his high school football program.
"in 008 over sixty officiers followed Rizzi"
Wrong pal more like 10 your over 50 off on your numbers, I work there I know. As far as him being this great boss, wrong again he is a spank! As those ten guys that left housing soon after
About Rizzi, I think those ten guys that followed Rizzi over ther were looking for somthing new as well as the hours, remeber the ten hour days program. I don't think Rizzi is this loveable leader you blog him as.
president chairman trustees vip ceo "sgt" who cares about whos in the drivers seat. its been working for the past twenty years you coppers commentingare a bunch of dogs i see on the watches everyday bitching about this job. if you had to do physical labor for a livivg most would starve to death.
go try to get a job with a fortune five hundred company you sorry slobs behind a badge.
Just a little tid bit that has nothing to do with this. Friday a young up-standing citizen of our community was excuted in 025. In usual fashion a crowd gathered. The crowd was trying to get to the body which lay on the sidewalk. The crowd would distract the Poilce while others ran around to try to cross the other side. The best part or this story is that while 025 dist with the help of 015 dist officers tried to control the crowd we stood around for over 1 1/2 hours waiting for the precious Crime Lab to get the Pirssy little ass's to the scene.
What makes it even better yet was Deputy Sam onscene unable to make any kind of command decision. Why wasn't the body taken and processed else where, why no give officers permission to control the crowd? The damn Deputy couldn't even get OEMC to get him a contact number for Crime Lab or even an eta. Just more proof of useless bosses with no balls, just making working coppers stand around until someone gets hurt. We also heard uncle Phil was at 015 dist 1st watch roll call,maybe he should have come by to see the workings of his well oiled machined. What a fucking joke this dept has become.
yah sounds like that crowd should have been dismantaled in 025!
but as you stated pussy foot bosses
well that when cops need to grow balls, you see officer you were probably surrounded by a bunch of
lazy dog ass coppers!!! who just
want to do nothing more than their
eight hours, they are the real pussys. remember you dont need
a boss to tell you to put handcuffs
on someone, if you believe that then start looking for a house mouse position.
if the sgts want to be in the FOP now is the time to request the labor board to conduct an election for a new "exclusive bargaining agent" for the sgts. Once the contract is settled the PBPA is in for the length of the contract...
what's Kubik doing now???????
11/07/2005 10:57:43 AM
Take it easy tough guy. If you are looking to do more than your eight (8) hours than you sound like a company bitch. Why should I give this city more than that???? When you get some time on than you will see that the city doesnt want working cops, they want ticket writing, CAPS loving, ass kissing PO's. You know what a nice desk job on days does sound good, along with the 1st and 16th of the month. I will let you young tough guys go save the ghetto.
Retirees vote in greater percentages than POs and are concidered active members of the FOP. It is quiet possible that in an election the retirees could vote in a full board of retired officers. Think about that.
Cline is ending the 10 hour 4th watch program. Hope you enjoyed it while it lasted. No hope for the end of the 6 day work week in patrol.
Who needs a day off? Man we would all do this for free. It's not a job it's an adventure!!
Please post your beef about the murder in 025 in the next 10 to 15 threads. It was awesome. I'm sure all this will be straightened out when you are running things.
To wharej603:
There are about 250 Sergeants and above currently members of the FOP including Phil Cline. So much for your "Supervisory Personnel" can't be members theory. What you should specify is that supervisors and retirees can be "Fraternal" members as long as they don't participate in negotiatable contractual issues.
11/07/2005 12:00:48 PM
what a smart remark! (dumbie)
if we all thought with a pee brain
like you have demonstrated the city
would collapse, your female family
members would be raped right before
your very eyes.
you P.O. are the lazy,sissy,coward
ass that try to brain wash other officers to say fuc the city.
I say to you fuc your mother.
Does anybody know of any detectives, either off the list or meritorious, that have actually been notified by personnel that they are going to make the sergeants class that will be starting 6 Feb 06? Personnel says everyone has been notified and the FOP says that the dicks will not be notified until the week before the class starts...
Thanks...
it's all so confusing
I was less than twenty out after the last class. I haven't been notified. But from reading this site I know that I am a hated clout detective who does nothing. I will be a clout sergeant even if I scan my results letter onto my vest carrier and wear it every day.
11/07/2005 04:15:06 PM
You keep telling yourself that cause of you the city is not going down the tubes, hahahahahah loser. You are keep crime down, yeah in the ghetto but not near your own home. Go preach to someone that gives a fuck, cause I dont. 1st and 16th, job security, insurance, and benefits are what I am here for. You dont like it tough, that isnt a dam thing you can do about it. PPO you will be there one day just get more than a year on the job than talk. You must be assigned to TRU, they all company bitches!!!!
to scc:
Yes but only two will be on the board of directors of FOP Lodge 7.
I didn't make the rule but the rule is there.
I have a quote from Attorney Pleiness who states that a Sgt cannot be a member of both unions.
This is nothing new Donahue tried to pass a By-Law when he was President of the state Lodge to allow sgt in FOP and the by law was defeated. He even threaten that Lodge 7 would be in conflict with State and national By laws if they did not pass the by law change and the membership still voted against it. Do you really think the voting membership would allow sgts on the board? What does a sgt bring to the table that a po couldn't do. How ccan a sgt spar a po and then tell him to go to the union do fight the spar? It is a classic case of conflict of interest.
If you or others think Sgts should be on the Board of Directors then do it the right was and Propose a By Law amendment.
The question would be moot if the trustees were made up of the reps from the districts and one from each area.
The area dicks still have three reps per area even though the areas are all combined, no more youth division.
Regarding the shooting in 025 in which it took the Crime Lab an hour and a half to respond. Didn't the same thing happen awhile back out in 005? When will one of the exempts get on these prima donnas and make them respond to these jobs in a timely manner?
Is the problem with the " crime lab" or the number of " crime labs" ? How many are there ? Before we start bitching at the time it takes them to respond, I think that question needs to be answered.
Uh...Wayne? You're not a member of FOP.
Not enough for a city this big. I worked a night where the two crime labs were busy with a police shooting and a homicide. We had a a homicide in our district and no crime lab was available and it would have taken the next crime lab several hours to respond. My sgt. told the zone to send an e.t. instead so we could clear up the crime scene soon. It was one of those nights where everyones was down on a call. The city needs more pos, sgts, lts, ets, dets, crime labs, and so forth. The city needs to open up their purse strings and start updating the the police department to a safer number.
To 11/07/2005 04:44:06 PM,
Detectives have not been called, but they have gone to number 323... You can either call personnel or FOP and they will tell you where you are... Otherwise if you were betting on "meritorious", then you are going to have to wait
To (Former) Brother Harej:
The fact still remains that we have over 250 bosses who are fraternal members of the FOP. Donahue, believe it or not, was correct. Lodge 7 is in conflict with State and National bylaws. The State and National Boards make no qualms about having bosses on the Boards. We even have a POLICE CHIEF as a National Board member.
We belive that a sergeant cannot be A BARGAINING member of two separate unions as Sergeant contracts are negotiated by PBPA. As far as we can tell, sergeants may be represented by the PBPA for contract issues, yet retain FRATERNAL benefits of the FOP union.
You seem to be spreading half truths and misleading info. Please cite chapter and verse for your opinions.
to scc:
I indicated the rule 54B
You still avoided the issue in that if you want Sgts on the Board of Directors clarify that position and propose a by law amendment settle your point.
However, you won't due that because you KNOW the membership would not approve it.
So, Donahue continues a practice he knows the membership he represents would not allow him to decide.
as far as you "former brother" comment if you feel that after viewing all the evidence I am guilty of the charges made come to the hearing in Springfield on Dec. 1 and be a witness to the policy of Donahue as to anyone that "threatens my pay check" is gone.
The fact that you as site master would believe something you have not taken the time to investigate indicates to me that your opinions are not backed up by "Chapter and verse" and you are not even speaking half truths.
I do, however, enjoy the opportunity you have given everyone to discuss these issues and many others that the membership is really not aware of.
Fraternally, Wharej603
Re: Crime Lab/ET's
On the 1st watch there is usually 2 two-man teams for the ENTIRE city. That's 25 districts. ET's may handle a crime lab assignment, but they are usually busy on petty requests from the districts in Areas 3 and 5. These assignments aren't simple beat jobs that can be coded 19p like in patrol. During warm weather, we're all busy.
Keep in mind that sometimes they have to TRAVEL from one side of the city to another, even with blue lights, the piece of shit squad cars can only move so fast. The assignments are also more involved than a simple battery/CDTP GOCR.
Try thinking outside of the box once in a while offices. You may be able to move quickly within the district boundaries, but some specialized units are responsible for requests and assignments city-wide or even outside of the city.
You can stomp your feet and curse your ass off, but it ain't gonna hurry-up anyone, especially an old-timer that is the only person who knows what he knows.
Alright, then let me re-phrase my question. When will one of these exempts make the propostition to cline that we increase the number of people in the Crime Lab so that Officers at a crime scene don't have to wait one and a half hours for them to arrive at a scene? Sam, you were there, you listening?
When I made Sgt. and the F.O.P came in and asked us to rejoin I almost pissed in my pants. I'm already paying one useless union (pbpa) to do nothing let me pay you guys too! Especially when you can't legally do anything for me. All these geeks just wanted to keep medallions on there cars, so the thugs would know which cars to breake into. I think if you printed the word POLICE on a turd, a lot of the HJs in this dept. would cough up $25.
Sorry Spelling Po-Po. I meant "break".
to scc:
how about cline, as a member of fop, recind rule 54B. you think it is gonna happen don't bet the website!!!!!!!
Speaking of slow response times, why does it take A2SVU youth dicks 2-3 hours to respond to the distict.
to 0828
When you say slow response time do you mean when you first bring your big arrest in and call or when you are finally done with the paperwork and have the kids fingerprinted and photographed. We do not send anyone out to process your juvenile arrest until they are all done being processed. Let me guess, you are one of those officers who calls in and wants a youth officer there to help you babysit your arrest before it is done. When you arrest an adult does the lock-up take them before the paperwork is done, I didn't think so. I'm sure you are probably one of those Officers who calls us and when we ask for the CB# you tell us the kid is in the back being processed right now and then the kid is not fingerprinted for over an hour. Just in case you don't know we can check on CHRIS to see if you telling the truth or not. Or let me guess, you are one of those Officers who tells us they contacted the parent and put it on the arrest report and tell us they are on the way when later we find out that the parent was never contacted. If you cant get a parent just let me know up front so I'm not wasting my time waiting for them to come in. HHHMMMM, maybe that's why it takes 2 to 3 hours because some A-hole in another district lied to me about some things. Putting lies on an arrest report could be construed as falsifying a Official report. Don't worry, Ive been on the job 16 years and I have never beefed on another Officer so don't worry tough guy, keep locking up those kids. Sorry SCC, I know this post is long but just a few more things for good old 0820 post. Hey Ill bet you are also one of those Officers who locks a kid up for BS and when the parent asks you what happened you tell them that the Youth Officer will explain it. If you are sooooooo embarrassed of what you locked the kid up for that you cant tell the parents maybe you should find another job. AND last but not least, I'm sure your one of those who catches 3 or 4 kids in a hot car and wants to charge all them with PSMV and not just the driver. Just because they are kids you cant sand-bag them. If you have kids I hope some P.O. does not sandbag your kids that way but then I'm sure you will be the first one talking nice to me asking for a break. I have a long memory and I know who has tried to screw me in the past. Maybe you are one of them and that's why it takes 2 to 3 hours. next time I'll take 4.
Once again SCC sorry about the rant
Sincerely
A Area 2 SVU Dick
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