Wednesday, February 14, 2007

Disarm the Police Off Duty?

  • An off-duty police officer having an early Valentine's Day dinner with his wife was credited Tuesday with helping stop a rampage in a crowded shopping mall by an 18-year-old gunman who shot five people to death before he was killed by police.
  • Ken Hammond, an off-duty officer from Ogden, north of Salt Lake City, jumped up from his seat at a restaurant after hearing gunfire and cornered the gunman, exchanging fire with him until other officers arrived, Burbank said.
We never understood why anyone would carry a badge off duty but not a gun - the two go together or not at all. And especially in light of the recent changes in Federal Law, there's no reason not to carry. Are we all going to run into gun wielding maniacs in the mall? No, probably not. But should one ever appear, wouldn't it be nice to be able to defend your family or other people's families because you can?

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52 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

This Officer is a hero no doubt about it. But, here is my question..what would have happened if the officer was shot dead? No On Duty Death benefits to his wife and kids? That needs to be changed. Because you are always ON DUTY.

2/13/2007 11:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

off topic, but does anyone know when the last sgt test was? I'm having a debate and i thought it was in 2001 and we got our results in 2002. Meaning that the last list was up for about 4-5 years. anyone know? and if anyone has exact dates that would be greatly greatly appreciated.

2/13/2007 11:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Agreed we all should carry off duty! I am one who does not but after reading this story I will start to always have my gun! You never know when idiots like this dead punk will try shit again! What happened was this rich kid mad the world did not give him everything?

2/13/2007 11:42:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm amazed (and shocked) at the number of coppers nowadays that don't take a gun home with them!! WTF??

2/13/2007 11:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

chicago police are disarmed in certain court branches ie. br46 and impound. does this make sense? does anyone know why this is and how it got started?

2/14/2007 01:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree. Better to have and not need, then to need and not have.
Protect this house.

2/14/2007 02:30:00 AM  
Blogger jeepmud said...

I always carry - even when traveling. Some might be concerned about getting in trouble off duty because they're armed... that might be true with a few pops in you - but, I would much rather get in trouble with the gun than without it. My family and friends are worth more than the day or two I might take for some silliness off duty.

2/14/2007 03:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think it should be MANDATORY for us to carry off duty. In fact, I think the general public should be allowed to carry concealed weapons provided of course that they take a training program and qualify with that weapon. BTW, I hope everybody is aware that the bad guy in this matter was a muslim. Just one more attack on Americans by a Muslim out to kill as many Christian Americans as he can. One of several attacks by these bastards. I only post this because the MSM seems to want to hide that fact or gloss over it.

2/14/2007 06:15:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wear a gun to church. I am always armed. Why a liberal might ask. Because I can. Because I want to protect myself and my family when Im out and about with them off duty.

Take aliberal on a ride along. It just might change their point of view.

Remember...the definition of a liberal yuppy is...A person who has not yet been a victim.

2/14/2007 07:30:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

we are disarmed in skokie court also..

2/14/2007 07:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I always carry off-duty. Especially living in this "zoo" of a city. I even take my snubby out when my dog has to shit. You never know what's out there.

2/14/2007 08:21:00 AM  
Blogger The Asshat said...

Thank god for HR 218. I carry off duty all the time, I also carry at least one mag with me as well. Everyone should have to carry off duty. Good job on the part of that odpo.

2/14/2007 08:59:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Armed cops off-duty tend to have bigger balls and will step into stupid sh*t because of it.

2/14/2007 09:20:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As far as not carrying in court, that is why you should have two guns....
Read between the lines.

2/14/2007 09:21:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Mayor and city does not want you to carry off duty because if you shoot someone they will sue and get 5.25 million dollars. Look at all the grief they give retired officers, they won't even help them to qualify. They have to go to the state police gun ranges, what a slap in the face. Serve the city and your community then be told F--k off. I even heard that the city does not follow the national law and does not permit retired officers to carry. We will have to see how the first test case plays out when a retired officer pops some mope. Are they going to try and charge them? or take his gun?

2/14/2007 09:33:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am pro concealled cary,yes I mean for civilians too. I don't have a problem with law abiding citizens(non-felons)carying firearms.I think we will see more of this type of terrorism in the future. Citizens should be able to defend themselves and their families.Thank GOD this off duty cop was there and did a great job, but I have to think what if one of the unfortunate victims had been armed? There may have been at least one more life saved,maybe.

2/14/2007 09:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you are going to carry off-duty. Carry your duty gun. Forget those 5 shot air weight snubs. If you plan for a gun fight, bring enough gun!

2/14/2007 10:01:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I KNOW QUITE A FEW GUYS THAT DO NOT CARRY OFF DUTY. I HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THEY WOULD PROBABLY HESITATE SHOOTING SOMEONE ON DUTY. I HEAR EXCUSES LIKE I DONT WANT TO GET INVOLVED OR I DONT NEED IT. WELL GENTLEMAN ITS A A RIGHT GRANTED. WHEN EVERYONES CRYING AT THE FUNERAL THE BACK ROW WILL BE SAYING DAMN WHY DIDNT HE HAVE HIS GUN. YOU WILL GET A FLAG FOR YOUR FAMILY AND SOME IRISH MUSIC WHEN THEY ARE PUTTING YOU IN THE COLD GROUND.

2/14/2007 10:24:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
chicago police are disarmed in certain court branches ie. br46 and impound. does this make sense? does anyone know why this is and how it got started?

2/14/2007 01:45:00 AM

TELL ME ABOUT IT. THEY PUT US IN HARMS WAY ALL THE TIME. DISARMING US WHILE WE'RE ON THE CLOCK. SOME OF THESE COURTS MAKE YOU CHECK IN YOUR GUN AND THROW YOU IN WITH THE WOLVES BECAUSE OF JUST A COUPLE LIBERAL POLICE HATN' JUDGES. MOST OF THESE JUDGES AREN'T EVEN ON THE BENCH ANYMORE OR JUST NOT IN THE BLDG ANYMORE BUT NOBODY'S HAS LIFTED/CHANGED THE STUPID ASS PROCEDURE.

GET WITH THE TIMES PEOPLE. THE HATE FOR THE POLICE UP 100%, THE BOLDNESS OF AGG BATTERY TO THE POLICE, RESISTING THE POLICE, ESCAPE - ALL UP I'M SURE 100%. MURDER OF POLICE ON AND OFF DUTY - UP 100%, THE THREAT OF TERRORIST ACTS 500% + ETC.

OUR LODGE ALONG WITH EACH AND EVERY OFFICER NEEDS TO STAND UP AND GET INVOLVED. I REFUSE TO GO TO VEHICLE IMPOUND. IF THEY DEVIATE ME, I'LL FILE A SAFETY GREIVANCE. YOU'VE GOT MAYBE 3 IMCOMPETENT SIMPLETON ARMED "SECURITY" GUARDS FOR THE WHOLE BLDG. GANGBANGERS LINING THE WALL 4 FEET FROM THE OPEN DOOR WHERE THE CHEAP UNSECURE GUN LOCKERS ARE. NO THANK YOU...

SAME GOES FOR THE MARKHAM COURTHOUSE. UNSECURE GUN LOCKER WITH DEFENDANTS LITERALLY HANGING ON AND LEANING AGAINST IT WITH NO SHERIFF IN SITE.

DON'T FORGET. ALL THOSE PEOPLE IN COURT ARE THERE BECAUSE THE POLICE LOCKED THEM UP AND THEIR LOOKING AT TIME, YOU TOOK THEIR DRUGS, MONEY AND CAR. THEY ARE NO FANS OF THE POLICE BUT I HAVE TO SHARE A STAIRWELL, ELEVATOR, BATHROOM, ETC OUTNUMBERED 400 TO 1. FUCKING BULLSHIT.

I CARRY OFF DUTY NO MATTER WHERE I GO. I DON'T EVER LOOK FOR TROUBLE BUT IF TROUBLE FINDS ME, MY FAMILY OR A LITTLE OLD LADY ON THE CORNER, I WANT, I NEED TO BE READY. NOTHING LIKE GETTING CAUGHT WITH YOUR PANTS DOWN OUT SHOPPING OR HAVING DINNER WITH THE FAMILY AND THAT STROKE YOU PUT AWAY FOR 6 YEARS IS OUT AND HE WANTS REVENGE.

ASK AROUND AND YOU WOULDNT BELIEVE HOW MANY STORIES YOU'LL HERE FROM COPPERS OFF DUTY THAT THANK THE LORD THEY HAD THEIR WEAPON WITH THEM..

2/14/2007 12:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My goodness Channel 9 news almost quoted SCC on the noon newscast.

Guess the media does surf this site.

Fantastic job officer Hammond from Utah.

Yes I carry off-duty also- we all should.

Dont write the offenses that end in court-rooms that disarm you!

2/14/2007 12:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Didnt believe the Muslim thing as posted earlier.

But it appears to be true.

His family had moved her from Bosnia.

I have been scouring the Media outlets, and the 0615 poster seems to be dead on.

If you havent read "Teeth of the Tiger" by Tom Clancy pick it up. Its a blue print for a terrorist attack on small town USA

2/14/2007 12:39:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Does anyone have hard stats on areas where it is legal to carry a firearm? I keep hearing different stories and wondered if crime is up or down in those areas. Isn't Florida one of the states?

2/14/2007 12:41:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This guy is a hero! Right place, right time and took unselfish Police action! He should be Commended and Promoted right away for his Heroic actions! I know of a few Officers who would have turned "Yellow" and ran away from the gunman! Instead he went after the bad guy and got him killed! We win again!

2/14/2007 12:46:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The last Sgt test (second part) was in April 2002.

As for courts etc. which do not allow ON DUY CPD officers to be armed I have solved that one. Either I put a snub in my pocket tucked away out of sight or, most often, I simply do not make arrests, write tickets etc. which go to those courts.

The police department, Cook County sherriff and judges make their choices, I make mine.

I got screwed on a court deviation two years ago in traffic court while I was on the medical. I have not been back since. I just stopped writing tickets. Green cards only. The police department showed me all right. Some dipshit female Sgt quoted the general order to me. Even though I was sick as shit in bed at home I got deviated. Yup they showed me. No movers in two years. There won't be any more either. They can KMA.

2/14/2007 01:00:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NO GUNS NO COURT

2/14/2007 02:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Carrying a firearm is a tremendous responsibility if you are the Police, but NO responsibility if you are a worthless dope dealer or gang banger. Cops should go back to the old, old school days when if the Police caught you with a gun and you weren't the Police, they would beat the livin SH*% out of you, anyone you were with, and then send you all to jail after you got out of the Hospital. Blame the liberals for their coddling of these useless turds, liberal Judges who give repeat offenders slaps on the wrists, etc; just because most of them are of the minority pursuasion, and it might affect the votes to the Dumocrat Party. And that Politician who wants to put a tax on every bullet sold in Cook County, thats real smart, everyone has a thing called a CAR, and will just drive outside Crook County to get their ammo, just like cigarettes and gas. Can you believe that we PAY these f*ck#ng TARDS to represent US? We should put a tax on Stupid Politicians, every time they come up with something stupid, they get hit with a fine. Daley and the Dems would be bankrupt already.

2/14/2007 02:39:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

THE OFFICER IN UTAH IS DEFINITELY A HERO, BUT THIS QUESTION GOES TO MONIQUE BOND, (AKA THE BRUNETTE BOMBSHELL) IF THIS HAD HAPPENED IN CHICAGO WITH AN OFF DUTY CPD P.O. TAKING CARE OF BUSINESS, WOULD YOU HAD STILL REFERRED TO THE SNIPER A VICTIM. YOUR STILL A LIBERAL, COP HATING BITCH AND IT MAKES ME SICK THAT YOUR EMPLOYED BY THE CPD. EVERY P.O. IN THE CPD SHOULD BE WRITING LETTERS TO THE SUPT, ALDERCREATURES AND CONGRESS DEMANDING THAT THEY TERMINATE HER.

2/14/2007 02:39:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to
Anonymous said...
chicago police are disarmed in certain court branches ie. br46 and impound. does this make sense? does anyone know why this is and how it got started?

2/14/2007 01:45:00 AM

just stop impounding and locking people up for br 46.

2/14/2007 03:02:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to the first poster

In the scenario you describe, the officer would be ( you'd hope anyway) entitled to Line of Duty benefits

After all 1st Dep Jihn Thomas' wife got them and he died in his home of natural causes

But seriously that officer would be entitled to the line of duty benefit

Gladly he wont be getting them just yet

2/14/2007 03:39:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

after 29 years of ALWAYsS carrying my weapon, its become a hard habit to break

Please remember me if you stop me, now that Im retired.

Thanks

2/14/2007 03:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And another thing from this retired guy

Officers, go and PURCHASE an airweight 5 shot revolver You only have to do it once.

Then ALWAYS carry it.
In the cooler weather, the boat anchor 16 shot 9mm is okay

But in warmer weather or when wearing dress clothes, TAKE the 5 shot.

Also, maintain your weapons.
Keep them CLEAN. REPLACE the magazine springs and t6he reccoil rod spring every 5 years like the mnfr reccommends. It only costs about $20 every 5 years to do this

Then, when youre old and retired like I am and the weather is cold and snowy and you dont want to go out, you can write advise to younger officer and hope it doesnt fall on sarcastic deaf ears

Be safe Live long

2/14/2007 03:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

they took our guns away at the daley center after hutchie moore a p/o on disability killed a judge and several attorneys during his divorce proceedings. as far as utah goes no media outlets are reporting that the offender was a muslim refugee to this country. they would rather tell the dipshit american public about anna nicole and who wore what at the grammies. it's almost over for us folks.

2/14/2007 04:11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To 3:51, the retired guy-

While I agree with your post about always carrying your weapon, I must disagree with the 5 shot snubbie theory. It only holds five rounds which isn't very much. I know, carry a speed strip you say. OK, but I 've got a better idea. Get one of those S&W sub compact 9mm's, like the 39xx series. They are slimmer than a 5 shot, easier to carry and hide, plus they hold more rounds. In addition, you can easliy carry and hide and extra mag. I've got both, a S&W 5 shot and a S&W 39XX. The 5 shot hasn't left the house in over a year while the 39XX is always with me.

2/14/2007 05:42:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Revolvers??? Why carry a revolver. It's the modern times, carry an auto. A small auto will have more fire power than a wheel gun. Ever tried to shot one of those air-weight wheel guns?? They suck... Get modern! Let those old farts keep wheel guns.

2/14/2007 05:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The PO in Utah deserves a "merit" promotion.

Thank God he's fine.

2/14/2007 06:23:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with the subby when walking the dog. I live near the forest preserve where too many idiots come from nowhere to run their dogs w/out leashes. They see my dog (w/leash) and come a running, not always just to say hello or smell butt.

2/14/2007 06:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

this is to the "retired guy" you sure are right...i've got 12 yrs. on and i always carry. I'm a female p.o. and never leave home without it!!! Keep up with the advise...best learning tool for all! Thank You!!!

2/14/2007 06:40:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We have our own anna nicole. Ever see the lt in 21 in c/d

2/14/2007 06:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

we are disarmed in skokie court also..

2/14/2007 07:39:00 AM


Since when??
If you have it concealed, there is no problem in Skokie.

2/14/2007 07:30:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All good suggestions. Might I add one more? Always keep your wallet like your brother-in-law has his. i.e. - No I.D. and no Star "cut-out". If you carry a "Police" wallet, throw it in the fucking garbage. Go buy a "regular-Joe" wallet from Carsons and keep your Star and I.D. separate from it. If you are ever robbed, ole' boy won't know you're the po-po. Act like a clueless Northwestern Grad-student. Then, when he is looking at those Benjamins, blast his MF'ing ass! Stay Safe!

2/14/2007 08:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

TO 2/14/07 9:33AM

Just so u know, x-chief Terry Hillard qualified for the cc; I know because a friend of mine who recently retired shot w/him at the same range.Everyone that CAN, seems to be getting the permit.
Its FEDERAL law, so carry the gun! The city/mayor made the statements against retired cc so they can distance themselves.
There's nothing thats going to protect u from the civil onslaught thats going to come; on/off duty, retired; it'll still be better to be alive!!
What rational man that CAN carry, wouldn't? U civilians that read this site that want to carry need to start electing right minded politcians that'll allow cc for this state. Most POs are w/u!!!!

2/14/2007 09:41:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When we first came on, we were sworn in as officers of the court, remember that?

Always carry the gun from now on people. It is our "life-saving tool."

Do not hesitate to cap someone who is using deadly force on you! I'm sure many of us have been sued before, right? But how many have actually had to pay damages, out of pocket? My guess is very few or none.

Maintain and practice with those weapons.

2/15/2007 12:00:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Uh-hem....me thinks we got a bit off track on the topic of this site, so let let me just say here...........

Officer Ken, YOU are a hero to every Chicago Police Officer that ever put on the star. Thank You for your dedication and bravery 'in the line of duty.'

We join you under the theory of the "Thin Blue Line."

Stay safe out there, ALL of my bothers and sisters!

OV

2/15/2007 12:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good shooting in Utah, facing a shotgun armed madman with a handgun.

It's a reminder to clue in your family that if you are out somewhere and say hide, run or go lock yourself in the restroom they should do it without question. Teach them to be situationally so they can call 9-1-1 and get you help while you deal with the problem.

2/15/2007 02:10:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

this is the retired guy
youre correct the chief special 9mm by s&w is a great gun I also own the 39 series and the 64 series

Depending on the weather I carry the bigger heavier ones in colder weather

2/15/2007 03:54:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The only thing that could have made this story better is if the cop was a retiree. Now, how about cutting through the red tape it takes to carry and provide free liability insurance to retiree's who do carry?

2/15/2007 05:23:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The new class of democrats running for office shall void your H.R.218 rights....

2/15/2007 06:56:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sigmund Freud says, "Men with small penis play with guns"

2/15/2007 08:18:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Glad to hear that LEO's support trained civilian CC. If only the politico's did as well.

2/15/2007 02:09:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

HR 218 is a nice thing,now how about my family???I can't be with them every second.Concealed carry should be national and operate just like having a DL.

2/15/2007 02:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good shooting in Utah facing a shotgun armed madman with a handgun.

Yes, very good.

This incident may inspire other goofs to commit copycat rampages. If/when it happens here in the city, all the first responders will have is their hanguns. No rifles, shotguns or carbines in district patrol units where they belong. It has always been department and city policy that it is better to bury a cop than to defend one.

The State Police and most suburbs have the proper weapons, in the front line cars. But, not Chicago, not as long as we have Richie.

2/15/2007 10:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just do what I do, carry a chainsaw and a gasoline can.

2/16/2007 12:42:00 AM  

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