Untrained Doctors Critique Cops
NEW YORK (Reuters Health) – In a survey of a random sample of U.S. emergency physicians, virtually all said they believed that law enforcement officers use excessive force to arrest and detain suspects.
The sample included 315 respondents. While 99.8 percent believed excessive force is used, almost as many (97.8 percent) reported that they had managed cases that they suspected or that the patient stated had involved excessive use of force by law enforcement officers.
Nearly two thirds (65.3 percent) estimated that they had treated two or more cases of suspected excessive use of force per year among their patients, according to a report of the survey published in the January 2009 issue of the Emergency Medicine Journal.
Most of what doctors see is without a doubt, judiciously applied restraint on the part of officers to terminate unlawful resistance. It isn't excessive by any stretch of the word.
Doctors have their own peer review or M&M conferences to assess when errors in treatments may have killed patients. They don't let us sit in on them. They should probably leave excessive force complaints to the proper investigating authorities instead of teaming up with ambulance chasers.
Labels: info for the police, silly people
posted by SCC at 12:05 AM
114 Comments:
"...almost as many (97.8 percent) reported that they had managed cases that they suspected or that the patient stated had involved excessive use of force..."
_____________________________
I believe the above quote is the operative phrase in determining the source of the extraordinarily inflated numbers we see here.
The PATIENT stated there was excessive force?!?! Oh, now there's a real reliable source for you.
SCC, did they ask those doctors how many times they or their staff have called 911 and requested police for a combative subject in the ER or a gang disturbance because hospital security either wasn't around or couldn't handle the situation.
Funny how they don't mind the force that might be used when we show up to help them but they are more than willing to be a monday morning quarterback.
To the doctors who were surveyed in this article I say this: Until you are involved in a situation where someone is trying to take your life because they don't want to go back to prison, sit down and shut up.
ATTENTION!!!!!!!!!
Note to all Doctors, Media Types, Supt. Weis, and.. Mayor Daley . .
The only thing that I and MANY of my fellow officers practice to "excess" is excessively sitting on our asses and watching DVDs and not doing a damn thing all night.
Sooo..
fear not all you liberal pukes.. by the way.. if you ever have to call 911 in Chicago.. you're surely to be fucked.
nonsense
Doctors all want to play GOD, Judge, and Jury, but remember doctors can bury their mistakes, and we get buried for ours.
SCC Stop being so self-righteous here. You and I both know the truth.
"Doctors have their own peer review or M&M conferences to assess when errors in treatments may have killed patients. They don't let us sit in on them."
No shit, you're not qualified!
These doctors would not be in a position to know what the injured prisoner did which probably prompted the use of (reasonable) force.
How could they possibly determine if it was "excessive"? The "study" presumes that the doctors witnessed the incident which resulted in the injuries.
File this "study" in the "Have you stopped beating your wife?" garbage bin. Just BULLSHIT.
More and more the "professionals" like this with no clue are against the police. But wait when dude is robbing and raping them or their families everything changes. This is the same with the corrupt judges we have, or the 50 of daleys pets, pick on the police unless your a victim then the police are alright! Another reason to do less why bother?
And since the good doctors can opine on use-of-force issues despite not having Graham v. Connor, California v. Glick, or Tennessee v. Garner, PPCT and Koga models, or the differences between, say, Weaver, Isoceles, and Turnipseed on their medical school syllabi...
My state and my department both have recognized me as a firearms instructor for academies and in-service training. Does that mean that I can take someone's appendix out and tell them when to take their nitro pills?
Doctors kill more people by fucking up, than cops kill when we actually mean to be shooting at them. They need to shut up and stay in their lanes.
Name the 2 groups that are sworn in based on the Hippocratic oath?
Ans. Doctors and lawyers
Many people who never have had to deal with a violent offender or someone struggling to evade arrest believe the police use too much force.
People seem to think we are punching bags out there.
I recall one surgeon coming out of the operating room, we were sitting on the prisoner shot by police inside the OR, he asked "what kind of killer bullets we used" because the offender's liver was shredded.
The offender came at an officer with a large pair of bloody scissors and the PO shot offender once in center mass. Attack halted instantly.
The doctor could not understand no matter what. All he saw was a person bleeding on his gurney doubled over.
He never saw the shrieking savage yelling to the officer when ordered to put down the scissors: "fuck you mother fucker, you going to have to shoot me." That wish was complied with. The offender took three days to die and the doctor is likely convinced to this day the officer used "killer bullets" and excessive force.
The officer suffered not a scratch which is the only measurement I care about.
Doctors are trained in medicine, not in use of force, The hell with what they think. Go home safe.
Court Rules Cops Can Carry Guns – Nationwide!
SPRINGFIELD, Va., Nov 18, 2008
Good Guys Can Fight Back - Criminals Beware!
A ruling on a case from South Dakota -- where off-duty law enforcement officers were
criminally charged for carrying guns despite the authority to do so under the federal 'Law
Enforcement Officer's Safety Act of 2004'(LEOSA) -- has confirmed that all qualified off-duty
and retired law enforcement are allowed, by federal law, to carry a concealed gun for
personal self-defense irrespective of state law. The federal law supersedes the crazy,
confusing and often conflicted state and local laws that limit legitimate self-defense.
LEAA's Executive Director, Jim Fotis said, "When LEAA co-authored the original draft of
what became affectionately known as 'National Cop Carry' back in the early 1990's, I knew it
would save cops' lives and give those who choose to resist violent criminals a fighting
chance. In 2004 I shook President Bush's hand after he signed our bill into law and rejoiced
that our fight -- for more than a decade -- was finally over!"
The local prosecutor's apparent effort to challenge the federal law, and send a message to 0A
all in law enforcement not to carry a gun for self-defense in South Dakota, was soundly
rejected! Thankfully, after careful review, the gun charges against the officers were
dismissed. "The Judge's crystal clear and unambiguous legal opinion should be required
reading for every prosecutor in the nation so that no other law enforcement professionals,
active or retired, have to endure what those officers and agents have endured in South
Dakota," declared Carl Rowan, LEAA's Vice President.
Robert Van Norman and Kenneth Orrock, Attorneys for the officers, said "We are pleased
with the court's decision, as it reaffirms the intent of the Law Enforcement Officers Safety
Act and in effect will protect law enforcement officers and our communities. The law
enforcement community should find comfort that LEOSA has been properly applied in this
case."
A copy of the Judge's memorandum decision -- and extensive background information on
LEOSA -- is available at the LEAA website:
http://www.leaa.org
yawn...Get back to me when they ask Doctors about Golf...! now thats a subject they can talk endlessly about.
it is a fact. when the police tell a subject to put his hands behind his back, he's under arrest, ALL of them do. after all if the police are going to take pookie away for being a criminal and this subject is looking at spending the next 10-20 years in jail he will ALWAYS comply with the police
"Doctors have their own peer review or M&M conferences to assess when errors in treatments may have killed patients. They don't let us sit in on them."
No shit, you're not qualified!
Thanks for proving our point dickhead. Seems you aren't qualified to read.
We aren't qualified for their job and they aren't qualified to determine how or when Force is applied to a resistor or assailant.
All the doctor is qualified to do is observe, note and treat the injuries. Anything beyond that is speculation and ought to be the subject of proper investigation, not some wild speculation by a reporter cherry-picking information.
Asshat.
"Name the 2 groups that are sworn in based on the Hippocratic oath?
Ans. Doctors and lawyers
12/26/2008 05:50:00 AM"
Now name the two groups who regularly, and repeatedly, violate the oaths they swear to.
I found this article on Yahoo! and posted a comment on the "buzz up' forum regarding the story. At first, many of the comments were against the article and pro police but after about 2 hrs all of the pro comments had been removed because of "negative ratings" by other viewers and most of the comments were VERY anti-police. This is the reason cops lose many civil judgements by juries---nobody likes us. Basically police are tolerated by the public but deep down there is a lot of resentment towards cops in general. The comments that were posted cited things like corruption, drop guns, brutality, and the general phrase " I wasn't doing nothing when..... I got beat up by the police". Remember, no one out there is your pal. That jury is looking to get even and when you are the target the bullseye on your chest is gigantic.
Rick 1099
Doctors have been trending liberal for some years now. Where do they come from? High end liberal suburbs of major cities for the most part. I think a majority of American born docs are now "little Howard Deans".
I've had ER docs look at me funny after subduing maniacs who wanted to fuck THEM up while being examined.
Many of the muslim docs simply see police bashing as a way to assist the global jihad.
Next case.....
These are the same doctors that call 911 to get idiots out of their emergency rooms.My response time is variable.
If you speak to most of these medical professionals, cops are just legal thugs who twist the law in their favor.
Fuck all the med professionals. Write those cop haters any chance you get. In the old days they would let you put cop hurters out. Now they joined the other side.
Very well said, SCC. Spot on.
This sounds like a flawed, self -serving, motivated by "money to be made" study. "Excessive Force" is defined how? And physicians who did not witness the "Excessive Force" are asked to report on patients brought in with injuries by the police?
Subjective reports by ER physicians as to excessive force based on Patient reports are ridiculous.
I wonder if a large wealth pharmaceutical company commissioned the study in order to mass produce and market some sort of transdermal or inhalation drug to sedate resisting suspects..?
Money usually motivated ridiculous studies like this.
doctors practice medicine.........
how about if we showed up at their door when they call us and said ......"we're practicing law enforcement"......they can practice what they do but .....we cannot!
hey doc, did you ever ask what the offender did first in order to end up in the hospital at the hands of the police? you ever think that offenders lie especially offenders that do not want to go back to prison? i've literally had offenders scream police brutality before i ever stepped out of the squad car.
true story. back in summer we had a job where a girl got beat up pretty bad. ambulance comes and takes victim to illinois masonic hospital. we go to take report and when we get there victim's friend who is a female banger tells us to leave she won't tell us nothing. she is told to leave the room so we can talk to victim. she won't leave then starts hootin' and hollerin' and swearing like a drunken governor. nurse comes in and asks what the problem is. we tell her what is going on and then she tells us that maybe it's best if we leave. we obliged and no exaggeration before we even got back to the squad car call comes out to get over to masonic for an unruly female trying to fight everyone. me and my partner just laughed.
after this critique doctors and nurses are no longer free from getting traffic tickets.
havent met many doctors that werent arrogant and that had ANY CLUE as to how the real world is. Hard to know when you make the money they do and live in a fantasy neighborhood. I respect their intelligence but beyond that, you can have them. Their personalities are complete shit!
"A ruling on a case from South Dakota -- where off-duty law enforcement officers were
criminally charged for carrying guns despite the authority to do so under the federal law . . . "
``````````````````````````
What kind of liberal puke state is South Dakota???
I say we load up several bus loads of local savages and dump 'em on the governor's front lawn there.
As old retired guy I've seen many local kids become "Doctors" as well as more distant friends children.
To be honest I would not let them touch me or any living, yet ailing ,person I know and love.
This is not to say that there aren't many many more of the "other" qualified types of doctors.
But, like in police work, the minority become stereotypical of the whole. Too bad.
In both cases, as usual, if you weren't there shut the fuc* up and mind your own business.
"Doctor" is a word that is diminishing it's importance daily.
The insurance companies are making a fortune $$$$ off of their "opinions".
Again Doc...opinions are like rectums we all .....
By the way, why were the Doc's giving opinions about police work at all?
I thought they only treated by referrals.
Yeah, and it's these pussies who are constantly lobbying for TORT REFORM so they can't get slammed with huge malpractice settlements.
Same thing with the veterinarians who want to keep recovery on their malpractice on your pets to just the actual value of the animal...a shelter dog's actual value is next to nothing, but what it means to you as a companion is a helluva lot more. But they and their physician brothers want to be excused for any malpractice or negligence. Assholes, all of them.
Ive got a paycheck that says Doc Schmidt (sp, sorry Doc) from west sub isnt in that 99.8%. That fat man is a good Doctor and knows the score. Ive seen him school the new fish Doctors & Nurses on how it is in the ghetto when they start to fall for an offenders line of BS. Remember there are good medical types, apparently not many of them but they exist.
Anonymous said...
"Doctors have their own peer review or M&M conferences to assess when errors in treatments may have killed patients. They don't let us sit in on them."
No shit, you're not qualified!
Hey Fuck Tard You are a useless waste of walking DNA. I'd respond to you but having to talk real slow and explain every word would be an waste of time. (Mine)
Now go back and read each word of the post ten times before blogging. I think it was clear that they aren't qualified to judge us.
Dr's may be good at what they do, but many are just educated assholes with no grasp of street survival.
SCC Stop being so self-righteous here. You and I both know the truth.
12/26/2008 01:56:00 AM
The truth being, that 99.9% of doctors are self-centered, narcissists.
I worked on an ambulance for many years on the southside. There were certain times you had to restrain a "Patient" for you and your partners safety. We would try to call ahead to the hospital to tell them what the situation was, hwo combative the "Patient" was. A number of times you would get to the hospital and Junior wold be playing possum and the doctor or nurse would demand that we cut the restraints off and that we just over-reacted...and then after cutting the restraints off, like Lazerus rising from the dead, here would come Junior off the cart and coldcock one of these know-it-all arrogant asses. It always gave us such a nice feeling especially when they would turn and ask us for help to restrain said mutt again.....it was nice to just walk away....and smile.
iteresting how every segment of society knows police works....many doctors feels their brains are tooo big and thus stand as authorties on many subjects. a lincoln quote to our medical friends. ''its better to remain silent and thought a fool..than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt''. when you chase after a man with a gun,when someone tries to fight their way out of an arrest or takes a shot at you because he doesnt want to go back to jail....you let me know from your ''experiences''how to proceed.
when the bad guy uses force it is his "inner rage" that is how liberals think
Fine, let the Doctors fend for themselves too, see how long they last. Maybe their friends the Lawyers can help them out if the police don't show up when they're asshole deep in alligators.
Hmm. They should poll those same doctors and see how many times they have been stopped driving like douchebags in their fancy cars. Then, sample the same population and discover that.. 99.9 percent of them never got a ticket. Perhaps this should change!
I've never been able to figure out how to hit someone just hard enough to get him to submit, but not hard enough to hurt him unduly.
Remember the lady-finger come-along from defensive tactics? You bend the guys finger back and make him behave? The first time out of the academy when I tried it, the guy was stronger in his finger than I was in my whole arm. The only thing that saved me from a beating, or worse, was my partners stick across the guy's head. The ER doctor tsk tsked as he stitched the guy up, but I went home safe.
Nuff said?
Lighten up Francis.
Next time they call for a combative patient, they can deal with them, hell they can take them home to their northshore community and they can deal with the sh*tbirds.
Doctors sometimes can put the lie to accusations made by the arrestee. I have had ER doctors testify that the injuries they observed did NOT clinically correlate with what the scumbag defendant said occurred.
In one case the arrestee said he was beaten by 8 to 12 officers, kicked in the head and face, struck with brass knuckles and handcuffs and stomped on by several officers. The offender had a black eye a couple of scrapes and bruises which were treated at the ER. Pookie had no broken bones or internal injuries and he was taken to court and jail.
The Doc was great on the witness stand explaining that there was medically and clinically no possibility that the officers acted in the way claimed by the defendant. This Doc is an ER specialist at NMH and has seen many claims by shitbags against the police and he has taken the officers side in every case I've seen.
Not all Docs are bad guys.
I can't wait for Ossama's National health plan to take effect. Doctors are gonna be crying like baby's off a tit. More patients, less pay - welcome to our world you self righteous fucks. Have you ever talked to a doctor from canada ? They have a national health care plan , they hate it because their pay is capped. Alot of them come here to the states to work because that cap does not exist here.
Those are the exact same percentages that police officers believe Dr.'s are scamming medicare. Interesting.
I think more doctors need to become victims of criminals to fully understand what we do.
But they work whereever and run back to Highland Park or Glencoe or Park Ridge. How lucky of them.
My husband, not a cop, pointed this blog out to me. I was an emergency room RN for over 18 years, and this study really ticked me off ! I want to say this: In fifteen years at the two Westside hospitals I worked at, I never once saw a “suspected use of EXCESSIVE force.” Use of force, yes, but how would I know that what I saw wasn’t justified. Believe me the patients I can immediately think of, I felt like smacking myself, pieces of garbage.
What I saw was three occasions where horrible child abuse, was met with restraint, I wanted the parents beat senseless, the cops were restrained. Gangbangers needing to be separated, mom’s so high on heroin, their kids literally hadn’t had diapers changed in over a day. Lotsa restraint. I’ve seen a lot of people get into a wheel chair and think they can get away with all sorts of abuse to a cop. (you guys know which one comes immediately to mind and I won't comment furthur on that)
I recall two examples where Doctors treated cops badly, one MD, pointing a finger in a face of a CPD as he accused him of sadism. I intervened in this telling this young idiot to “shut the hell up!”. The MD had just listened to the patient tell of a brutal beating he endured; the doctor thought it was his business to get in the cop’s face. Later on the sister of the model citizen spit right in the good MD’s face. I actually asked him if he was going to call the police. He didn’t like that too much, he walked into a lounge pretty fast.
So if you guys reading this want to know, most ER RN’s really respect cops, a few out and out are groupies (you seen that haven’t you ) and all of them know what’s going on. What angers me the most about this article is that ER personnel need to work with cops on many levels and rely on cops a lot when it hits the fan, a common occurrence. We don’t need to police the police while we are doing our job.
I am going to see if I can get the actual survey; I am sure the questions were asked in such a way to sway answers, with the agenda being to make ER personnel accountable for reporting suspected excessive force, and I repeat,,,how the hell would any ER person know this, and almost everybody I know in an ER would say the same thing, HOW THE HELL WOULD WE KNOW THE DIFFERENCE !!!! In my case, I wouldn’t really give a rat’s ass.
Finally in closing, I’d like to say many triage incidents, I’ve seen cops and their family members taken care of quickly because they are cops, and that’s fine with me also. I’ve been stopped three times in 18 years for traffic, I always use the same routine, “didn’t you work at the blankteenth district, I’m an RN at the ER at (hospital name withheld), I thought I remember seeing you there when…” It always earned me a pass, and once a request for dinner. RN’s and cops need to extend each other professional courtesy, please don’t let this stupid study ruin this for a lot of us.
As for the MD’s, the next time any of them give you crap, and I hope that is few and far between, do what the cop did in the second time an MD gave the cops crap: the cop looked at him, asked for his full name, when the MD asked why he wanted it, the cop just looked at him blankly and said, its needed for the report. “when he sues the city and me, you think he isn’t going to sue you too, I want to make it easier for his lawyer to find you when he gets the report.” He shut the hell up really quick.
Sorry for the length of this rant, it really ticked me off.
Nurse Betty
I recall one surgeon coming out of the operating room, we were sitting on the prisoner shot by police inside the OR, he asked "what kind of killer bullets we used" because the offender's liver was shredded.
------------------------
Be warned!
Do not speak to doctors about criminal cases. Lawyers will seek them out and get them to file briefs to the court system.
Just smile and nod. Don't jam yourself up.
Whenever you see "Studies" like this do yourself a favor. Google any of the authors names or any of the "experts" quoted. 100% of the time you will discover that it's a phony "Study" using slanted "research". The author of this one has a long history of anti-police rhetoric and has been extremely outspoken on the police use of the TASER. The study is then spoon fed to select Liberal media outlets and then dutifully reported as legitimate news. Try out what I'm telling you on this study. You'll be amusedi
Police Officers are ALLOWED, BY LAW, to use sufficient force, EQUAL TO OR IN EXCESS OF, the level of resistance used by an offender to defeat an arrest.
I've always taken that to mean that the bad guy should ALWAYS LOSE any confrontation with any law enforcement officer.
Understandably, citizens, (or emergency physicians), who regularly observe bad guys on the losing end of confrontations with the police, may INCORRECTLY ASSUME that police are using excessive force in these confrontations.
In reality, what these people are observing, is a high degree of proficiency from a highly trained para-military force, who are charged with the responsibility by society TO WIN EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THESE BATTLES!
Just because WE DO OUR JOB WELL does not mean that the force we use is "EXCESSIVE"!
"Hones', doc! Dey din't have no reason to beat me down an' shoot me! I was jes'...joggin' down da street when dey shot me an' jumped outta dey cars an' started beatin' my ass!"
There's a credible witness, right?
File 13 this "study."
ECS
You might as well put Emergency Doctors in the same doofess catagory as all our local tv and news paper reporters. fuck em all! God Bless The Police! Be safe out there boys and girls and go home after your tour.
Doctors kill more people by fucking up, than cops kill when we actually mean to be shooting at them. They need to shut up and stay in their lanes.
12/26/2008 05:34:00 AM
And just try to find out when they fuck up or how many times they have fucked up! Hospitals cover up their mistakes and nurses cover for them and everyone knows there is a code of silence when it comes to squealing on one of their colleagues.
Walk a mile in my shoes motherfucker, walk a mile in my shoes.
Most of what doctors see is without a doubt, judiciously applied restraint on the part of officers to terminate unlawful resistance.
It's the "most" aspect of your defense that fails to pass the smell test, S.C. Cop. And that Most most likely adds up to a whole lot of indefensible abuse on the people you guys are supposed to be out there - protecting.
Law enforcement and the military are loathed by all. Don't forget it.
A doctor could treat a patient with a small bruise to the arm and that might be "excessive force".
Ten minutes later he could treat a patient with broken ribs, a concussion, internal injuries and more and that could be justifiable force.
Unless you happen to know the exact circumstances of how the injury occurred you can't be sure.
The first patient with the bruise might have had the bad luck to run into a cop with some "funny in the head" issues who roughed him up for no reason. Think of some sweet Irish cop such as Gerry Callahan as an example.
The second patient might have been a drugged out, steroid fed, drunken, 300 pound meth addict, who just found out his girlfriend is actually a tranny who left him for a Cubs outfielder. Said meth head might have beaten the hell out of 5 or 6 cops of various sizes before a taser and animal control teams managed to subdue him at Midnight Mass at St Mary of Canaryville.
Holy Bravo Batman!!!
Tell those quacks who practice mistakes on their patients to stop judging police who bring criminals in for medical treatment. Obviously criminals have a motive to lie about their injuries when they get their asses kicked to avoid prison.
Perhaps all med students should spent sometime in the county jail hospital.
the only group of workers who get monday morning quarterbacked by people who have no business more often than police are pro sports players.
i guess we all feel deep inside we could do a better job of coaching the team to victory.
And why not do a poll on police officers who observe emergency medical room personnel misdiagnose someone, or begin the incorrect treatment plan, or not listen to the patients' complaint, or dispense the wrong medicine, or not wash their hands before they start an IV, or bill patients for services they never recieved, etc., etc., etc.? I wonder what percentage of medical staff does things like this? I only see about every other time I am in an ER.
And more importantly, who makes sure that the media gets their stories accurate, or verifies their "sources", or forces them to recant false stories, or misleading information? Who polices the media, I ask? NO ONE! OH, I AM SORRY THE EDITOR DOES!
So, the media and the doctors get to police themselves! HOW VERY CONVENIENT.
I am not saying ALL medical personnel or reporters do this - just most of them. What? I am stereotyping? Oh, I am so sorry I did not mean to. It just seems that I observe them too often doing their jobs so irresponsibly. What? I am not a doctor or reporter so how can I make such ill-informed judgements? I just follow the path they have trod.
The above two professions rant and rave about the police investigating themselves. Well, they shouldn't call the kettle black. They both do a very good job of being exemplary hypocrites as they try to cover up their own mistakes through self investigating arms of their professions.
Show me a bloodied-up mutt that won't claim "police brutality", regardless of his violent resistance to the arresting officers.
Unless the doctor(s) actually witnessed the arrest incident, they should not compromise their integrity with superfluous speculation.
Having worked security in a major hospital upon retirement from the job, I found that just about every time there was a fight or threat in the ER, the doctors ran. Only the nurses stayed to help. They are thr first to criticize, the last to help. Many of the doctors were overly self-medicated.
"It's the "most" aspect of your defense that fails to pass the smell test, S.C. Cop. And that Most most likely adds up to a whole lot of indefensible abuse on the people you guys are supposed to be out there - protecting.
12/26/2008 03:47:00 PM"
If you'd pull your head out of your ass, maybe you'd have a better chance at administering that 'smell test' accurately.
Just maybe.
Oh, don't forget to blow your nose after pulling your head out of your ass, even if blowing it before is your preferred method of stimulating your prostate.
If doctors were so fucking smart they wouldn't have to answer to HMO's that tell then how and what to charge a patient. Ever look at a benefits statement? $135 test and they are lucky to get paid $20. They didn't see that coming? Stupid fucks.
"Just smile and nod. Don't jam yourself up.
12/26/2008 01:42:00 PM"
Don't bother smiling, and definitely do not nod.
Just give them the 'huh' look, with as much 'blank' as you can put into your eyes.
After all, they think of themselves as exponentially more intelligent than everyone else, why spoil their illusion by exhibiting any evidence of possessing an intelligence beyond their comprehension?
"Nurse Betty
12/26/2008 01:39:00 PM"
You can take my temperature any time.
"Lighten up Francis.
12/26/2008 12:19:00 PM"
Boy, you sure do have a fixation with some guy named 'Francis'.
Bad memories from your days at the convent?
Thanks Nurse Betty! You are a God send.
Any legit doctor who is used in any criminal investigations, for example child abuse, will tell you that without having a history of the injury they CANNOT tell you if the injury was an accident, or intentionally inflicted. Almost any injury can be either with a few exceptions so obviously these doctors are general practitioners who are making liberal assumptions.
nurse betty-- i always give nurses a play on traffic stops. we are supposed to be on the same side. i think some of these doctors are just eggheads who need a little wake up as to what really goes on. this survey is definitely flawed--
OT
Last night in 007/1st watch a scum bag savage tried to dis arm two po's on a domestic. Thank god help got there fast despite the lousy weather. These fucks are getting too bold as if lately. They're noticing the low morale and all that goes with it. It isn't going to be long before before somone gets killed do to this. I'm not saying that we should all be proactive and aggresive, but don't be too relaxed out there. Don't forget what we've learned in our training and past experiences
I worked in 024 when Edgewater Hospital was in existence. Several times Doctors accused me or other police of mistreating a patient I had transported to the Er. Often times not my arrestee, but a hospital run. They were liberal and I knew it. Then, the hospital went out of business due to mismanagement and corruption. I found this hospital to be the most liberal I ever encountered, and I have worked more than one district.
I sold insurance before I was a cop. I know health care business inside and out. They have their own problems and their own Thin blue line. I sold insurance and basically found customers for doctors who would starve to death if they had to attract, hold and keep a clientele.
One time I was injured during an arrest and limped into the ER with an injured prisoner. I mildly pulled a hamstring during the arrest but I kept up with it, didn't go IOD, just kept going because I can rub it out on my own, use hot compresses and get over it. When I entered the ER some asshole doctor said, "MR. DILLON ! MR. DILLON" I said, "Shut up motherfucker, this really hurts."
The nurses laughed at the asshole doctor right in his face. One told me he was known as an asshole in the ER, and that they appreciated his comeuppamce.
Fact is, I know there are good and bad doctors. I was sued once, and a doctor, from the same ER as the "Mr Dillon" asshole. wrote a report that rendered the judgment to nothing. ANd that doctor really never knew who I was.
Let me make sense of this survey...people who are untrained in policework are critiquing law enforcement? That makes about as much sense as bringing in some schmuck who's NEVER been the police to run the 2nd largest Police Dept. in the US; we all know THAT could never happen!
Doctors are people who live in Glass Houses, and shouldn't throw Stones. They are the cause of more people being addicted to prescription pharmasuticals than from illicit drugs. 3/4 of the Nation is doped up one way or another, that and a lack of religion, morals, common decency, and family values, explains much of how our City and our Country are now in the Shitter.
Old Wheelgunner
Check the backgrounds of your physician. In Illinois, check the Illinois Department of Professional Regulations to see what kind of complaints and discipline were meted against errant physicians. Other states have medical boards that provide similar info.You'd be shocked how many of them test positive for drugs and alcohol abuse (infractions that we as police officers would be FIRED for) but are allowed to retain their licenses.
The few that lose their license have backdoors that allow them to regain their licenses despite various offenses.
Doctors shouldn't throw stones in glass houses.
As a retired P.O. with many more years on the job than most of you, I think you're all overreacting. Denying that we as police officers used excessive force from time to time is just not credible. OTOH, the doctors who responded reported very few cases in light of the very many cases they treat each year. Doctors are looking at the actual injuries not listening to some junkie's allegation of excessive force. Frankly, I think the numbers are a little low. Also the numbers don't mean that much without consideration of how extensive the arrestee's injuries actually are.
AND WHERE DO THESE FINE DOCTORS ALL LIVE????? i'M GUESSING NOT AT 63RD & BELL!!!
To 12/26/2008 10:14:00 AM
I was impressed by Dr Schmitt several years ago when I worked in 015---------is he still at WSH or did he "bid out" too?
There's one thing I'd like added to the "Cop For A Day" media training.
Have an average size person resist handcuffing. Really let them put up a major struggle and see just how many people takes to restrain a fighting offender.
Not that it would matter...they still won't get it.
Perhaps the patients/offenders simply informed the doctors, "I was the vicitm of excessive force." That should suffice for proof, right?
I was sparring with a Dr. from Dr. 90210 and he hit me square with a roundhouse. I got him in a suplex and did an elbow drop. He had a colleague fix his nose while I got a penile implant.
He didn't beef about excessive force and neither did I!
When I use to work in the hospital and a patient would get out of hand, The doctor would order a strong sedative and restrain all four limbs to the bed. I guess that's the humane thing to do.
You know what's excessive, charging my mother last year $3,000 a day to stay over night in a hospital who's nurses treated her like dirt.
Keep in mind, these are New Yawk Drs, not Chicago Drs. Don't know those northsiders but on the southside they remain pretty down to earth.
Nurse Betty,
A quick little story. Way back in 1986 I was going to write a nurse a ticket. The old wagon guy I was with said to me "What the fuck are you doing?" I told the old wagon guy the nurse blew a red light. the old wagon guy said "You stupid MF. When you get shot, who's taking care of your ass?" I looked at the old wagon guy and said "You're right." I walked back to her car and said "Have a nice night." A few years later I was shot and those nurses took care of me.
P.O. Mercado, I hope you're still alive and enjoying your retirement. Thanks for the lesson.
Untrained Doctors Critique Cops
More like "Insignificant Newspaper Shows Their Stupidity"
DOCTORS!
First to use the I'm a Doctor routine when pulled for a traffic violation!
I pulled a doctor the other day, Went though a Red Light right in front of me, An orthopedic rehab guy, he got a break from that tkt and the cell phone usage allegedly talking to the nurse.
I wrote the Doctor going to REED on an emergency Psych Call! hahahahah
The Doctor getting a hummer from the west side whore with X-mas presents in the back of the car also got a break x-mas eve 7 yrs ago if he could answer his home phone by the time I called. I asked to see a pic of his wife and said I wouldn't mind going out to Northbrook and fuckin her for him SINCE HE IS PLAYING GAMES ON THE WEST SIDE.
DOCTORS LIKE EVERYONE HAVE THEIR FLAWS, WE SHOULDN'T LUMP THEM ALL TOGETHER LIKE THEY DO WITH OURSELVES!
THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY!
I left Resurection North with a prisoner the other day and saw that they billed $250.00 for a pair of crutches!
WHO ARE THE CRIMINALS?
$250.00 FOR CRUTCHES?
Remind people when they ask for an ambulance that it is going to cost $600.00 after the 1st of the year charge from the CITY!!!!
AMBULANCE ARE NOT FREE!!!
We should start charging for POLICE service.
Mental transport = $1000.00 with wagon
Domestic = $500.00
Talk to your children = $200.00
Burglar alarms = $50.00
Accident report = $25.00 (when you refuse to go into station)
IN PROGRESS WHEN ARREST IS MADE = FREE
Only a report, no offender = $50.00
Now we could do a billing statement, contact card, truant, school absentee and a report!
AND WHAT IS WITH US ASSISTING FIRE DEPT ON OLD SICK PEOPLE???
WASTE OF POLICE RESOURCES!!!!
OUR LADY OF RES CALLED US TO THROW OUT THE OLD, ALCOHOLIC, DISABLED PERSON DURING THE COLD SPELL LAST WEEK! SHE WAS CAUSING A DISTURBANCE!
hahahahhahhahaha
WE REFUSED!
Typically we help people, they wanted us to throw her out into the cold! They didn't CARE!
If A hOSPITAL REFUSEs CARE IT IS A cobra VIOLATION ! They aRE NOT ALLOWED TO REFUSE CARE!!! cobra VIOLATION STARTS AT $10,000.00 FINE BY feds!!!
jUST GET A PATIENT INTO THE ER AND THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO REFUSE CARE!!!If they try, get the names of doctors and nurses and put in your report. YOU CAN FILE A COMPLAINT AGAINST HOSPITAL!
was impressed by Dr Schmitt several years ago when I worked in 015---------is he still at WSH or did he "bid out" too?
still there and large and in charge.
Please people, the use of force model was not designed to bring in violent offenders in one peace. The doctors are able to determine what type of injuries are sustained and in what form of trauma. Drs should not assume that force was excessive. Many times officers try to keep offenders alive or hold back on the amount of force necessary. Unfortunately, Officers end up sustaining injuries as well. Cops are not a punching bag and refuse to give in to street bullies. Most Offenders refuse to seek help from church, social workers, probationary officers, or their families. They will certainly refuse to cooperate with the police. Copse have also become walking dollar signs. Someone who has nothing to loose will gamble an injury to sue the municipality.
Police Officers highly respect people of the medical proffesion and refuse to take such a bias study seriously. Suspecting something and listening to someone who is not credible is not enough evidence in any aspect.
Anonymous said...
I found this article on Yahoo! and posted a comment on the "buzz up' forum regarding the story. At first, many of the comments were against the article and pro police but after about 2 hrs all of the pro comments had been removed because of "negative ratings" by other viewers and most of the comments were VERY anti-police. This is the reason cops lose many civil judgements by juries---nobody likes us. Basically police are tolerated by the public but deep down there is a lot of resentment towards cops in general. The comments that were posted cited things like corruption, drop guns, brutality, and the general phrase " I wasn't doing nothing when..... I got beat up by the police". Remember, no one out there is your pal. That jury is looking to get even and when you are the target the bullseye on your chest is gigantic.
Rick 1099
12/26/2008 07:28:00 AM
Rick they pick juries that contain people that have never left the suburb they reside in. People that have never had one bad experience about anything in their lives or at least claim they did not. Those that will be easily brainwashed by the convincing greedy attorney.
+ Intelligent people do not wish to spend several days listening to a case, therefore; they try to get out of serving in the jury and go on with their lives. We all know what ends up being left over (Jerry Springer Show).
Too many arrogant narcissistic Doc's are
"Book smart, street stupid"....
Yeah I had a doc tell me the same thing when I showed up with blood all over my vest to the E.R with an offender. The doc failed to ask any questions before making assumptions about the situation, just like every other civilian in the aftermath. The guy had broken a large glass door and in the struggle I got his blood on my vest, end of story. The nice part was that when the doc asked this nut what happened the offender spit a huge wad right in his face!!! I could not stop laughing, when the doc made a fist and raised his hand. HEEE haaaa. As I watched him crank up to hit this offender I meekly told him I would have to document it if he struck my arrestee!!!!!!!Needless to say he wiped his face with a few choice words and walked away.
I sat in for part of the trial of the asshole who killed Ofc.Camp.
The head of emergency surgery was testifying (in favor of defense arguments) about the offenders ability to understand his rights as issued by dics at the hospital. She was caught lying by the ASA in that she said she had no interest in the case. She appearantly forgot that the defense had paid her for many hours at $300 per hour as a consultant for this very case. She wasn't some hack either. She was published in numerous journals and was also teaching at a couple of med schools.
In short, fuck these liberal omniscient doctors.
Years ago my FTO told me very simply what excessive force was, he said do whatever you have to do while they are fighting you, lump them, hit, shoot, whatever. When they stop fighting the force I use should also stop. Very simple. Did I ever give an extra whack just to make sure? Sure. Did I ever continue to the point where bones were broken and I got sued? No. 25 years and not one excessive force lawsuit. Plenty of complaints, not one sustained.
The one most important thing about using force when someone fights or resists. use plenty of it IMMEDIATELY to stop the attack, fight, etc. Do not hesitate for a blink, counter force with a greater amount of force, go home safe.
Had to take a police fighter to the local emergency room once. This P.O.S. kept spitting at us and the paramedics that they grabbed a towel and put it over his face.
When we got tho the emergency room, the doctor had a fit and demanded that it be removed. We told her why it was on him but she refused to listen. So the towel came off and the P.O.S. spat right in her face! The doc runs out of the room and comes back a few minutes later decked out in full bio-hazard gear! It was hysterical!
Anonymous Anonymous said...
SCC Stop being so self-righteous here. You and I both know the truth.
12/26/2008 01:56:00 AM
The truth being, that 99.9% of doctors are self-centered, narcissists.
12/26/2008 11:04:00 AM..............Yeah,ok.When you get chest pains,go see the auto mechanic about it.
It's the "most" aspect of your defense that fails to pass the smell test, S.C. Cop. And that Most most likely adds up to a whole lot of indefensible abuse on the people you guys are supposed to be out there - protecting.
-----------------------------------
LIBERAL PUKE ALERT! SCC, don't you have a filter you can use to prevent these self rightous assfats from logging on? But on second thought, they are amusing. Hearing from people like this just makes me want to keep going out there because I know I will eventually run into someone like this but only after pooky beat the shit out of them and stole their wallet.
Of course I will still be accused of wrong doing since I did not respond to his cry for help fast enough.
It's the "most" aspect of your defense that fails to pass the smell test, S.C. Cop. And that Most most likely adds up to a whole lot of indefensible abuse on the people you guys are supposed to be out there - protecting.
-----------------------------------
LIBERAL PUKE ALERT! SCC, don't you have a filter you can use to prevent these self rightous assfats from logging on? But on second thought, they are amusing. Hearing from people like this just makes me want to keep going out there because I know I will eventually run into someone like this but only after pooky beat the shit out of them and stole their wallet.
Of course I will still be accused of wrong doing since I did not respond to his cry for help fast enough.
"Lighten up Francis.
12/26/2008 12:19:00 PM"
Boy, you sure do have a fixation with some guy named 'Francis'.
Bad memories from your days at the convent?
12/26/2008 06:12:00 PM
Ever hear of Hill Street Blues, stupid? You must be under thirty.
"It's the "most" aspect of your defense that fails to pass the smell test, S.C. Cop. And that Most most likely adds up to a whole lot of indefensible abuse on the people you guys are supposed to be out there - protecting.
12/26/2008 03:47:00 PM"
If you'd pull your head out of your ass, maybe you'd have a better chance at administering that 'smell test' accurately.
Just maybe.
Oh, don't forget to blow your nose after pulling your head out of your ass, even if blowing it before is your preferred method of stimulating your prostate.
12/26/2008 05:59:00 PM
Ha! He walked right into that one.
Have an average size person resist handcuffing. Really let them put up a major struggle and see just how many people takes to restrain a fighting offender.
A "fighting offender" is no longer a resistor and should have the fight taken to them.
Struggling to restrain a "resisting offender" is the sticky wicket, because they are not fighting, can't beat the shit out of them.
However, head-stuns can be used. Pressure points can be used. These things work on most pussy resistors, but when the fight is on...it's ON.
Who ever is using "lighten up Francis" you are doing it in very poor taste. The officer that was killed in July was Rick Francis. Please use another term to express your displeasure. Thank you for your attention in this matter.
Name the 2 groups that are sworn in based on the Hippocratic oath?
Ans. Doctors and lawyers
12/26/2008 05:50:00 AM"
Now name the two groups who regularly, and repeatedly, violate the oaths they swear to.
Doctors and lawers agian
Everybody knows "lighten up Francis" has nothing to do with PO Francis. You are an idiot.
Remind people when they ask for an ambulance that it is going to cost $600.00 after the 1st of the year charge from the CITY!!!!
AMBULANCE ARE NOT FREE!!!
12-26 11:27PM
Oh, contraire. They are when you are a typical hood rat, link card payin' bum, subsisting on everyone else's hard work. They can call for every flu, gut-bug, baby fever, leg be hurtin' bullshit, and get service, and get it free.
The raise in cost? So us working stiffs can somewhat balance out the free-ride Osama voters.
Anonymous said...
"It's the "most" aspect of your defense that fails to pass the smell test, S.C. Cop. And that Most most likely adds up to a whole lot of indefensible abuse on the people you guys are supposed to be out there - protecting.
12/26/2008 03:47:00 PM"
--------------------------------------------------
If you'd pull your head out of your ass, maybe you'd have a better chance at administering that 'smell test' accurately.
Just maybe.
Oh, don't forget to blow your nose after pulling your head out of your ass, even if blowing it before is your preferred method of stimulating your prostate.
12/26/2008 05:59:00 PM
--------------------------------------------------
Hey, butt wipe: S.C.Cop is the one who qualified his remarks by saying: "Most" of what doctors see is without a doubt, judiciously applied restraint on the part of officers to terminate unlawful resistance. Which obviously implies that some restraint isn't "judiciously applied" which should be obvious even to a moron such as yourself.
"Who ever is using "lighten up Francis" you are doing it in very poor taste. The officer that was killed in July was Rick Francis. Please use another term to express your displeasure. Thank you for your attention in this matter.
12/27/2008 03:28:00 PM"
No YOU Lighten Up. That's a line from the 1981 Movie Stripes. It has ZERO correlation to Officer Francis. Don't take things out of context& stop looking for hidden meanings Nostradamus
Doctors are people who live in Glass Houses, and shouldn't throw Stones. They are the cause of more people being addicted to prescription pharmasuticals than from illicit drugs. 3/4 of the Nation is doped up one way or another, that and a lack of religion, morals, common decency, and family values, explains much of how our City and our Country are now in the Shitter.
Old Wheelgunner
12/26/2008 08:03:00 PM
BINGO!
Dr. Kavorkian says:
OOOOOOOOOO snap!
Try being a cop in a hospital. You'd be amazed at what doctors are like "behind closed doors", sorry but I can't stand them.
These asshole liberal Doctors need to spend a few days on a ride-a-long to see what really goes on in the streets. But instead, they sit bac and judge what WE do to stay safe. They protect these Link card carrying/"gimme a free ridez to da hospital" scumbag motherfuckers while they treat us like shit. I was seriously injured a few years ago (IOD), barely treated by ER Drs (Nurses were GREAT)sent home with Advil - I had 23 broken bones and underwent 7 surgeries! Let's all get together and hammer these motherfuckers whenever we can.
"Bad memories from your days at the convent?
12/26/2008 06:12:00 PM"
Yes.
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