Reporting Anomaly?
We heard this on a crime scene the other day and now it's popping up in the comments:
- If a person is shot, and they make any statement to the effect that they were being robbed during the course of the incident, the event is classified as an Aggravated Robbery and doesn't appear in the shooting stats.
Someone from BIS want to address this for the edification of the readers?
UPDATE: Comments are correcting the misconception that it's an Aggravated Robbery, but confirming that it's not counted in the Aggravated Battery stats. We're deleting the ones from ignoramuses who merely insult without providing information - it was a question from a commentator looking for info.
Now does anyone know how they actually keep track of people shot?
UPDATE: Comments are correcting the misconception that it's an Aggravated Robbery, but confirming that it's not counted in the Aggravated Battery stats. We're deleting the ones from ignoramuses who merely insult without providing information - it was a question from a commentator looking for info.
Now does anyone know how they actually keep track of people shot?
Labels: rumors
posted by SCC at 12:02 AM
47 Comments:
I actually heard a shooting can be handled with a contact card and event number now. HAHAHAH
Remember your case reporting class regarding IUCR? The hierarchy of crimes makes Robbery 03XX. Battery is 04XX. The lower the UCR number is, higher the crime is in the Hierarchy of Crimes. So a person shot in a robbery, the Primary classification is ROBBERY and secondary is Armed (or Attempt Armed).
An Aggravated Robbery has nothing to do with a person being shot.
And don't ask me how they keep track on the actual number of persons shot over a year. 5 people shot don't get 5 R.D. numbers.
If a person is shot during a robbery, the gun is real so it is classified as an Armed Robbery.
And it has been that way for a long time. It gives Chicago a lower Aggravated Battery total at the end of the year.
The truth be know, if anybody or any organization asks the Chicago police department how many people have been shot in a given year, they have no clue.
this is not new, been that way for quite awhile...
Ok, I consider myself to be fairly edumacated in this department. But how on earth can anyone who is SHOT have a case report done that reflects an aggravated robbery? Wouldn't that be an IMPLIED weapon, but no actual weapon shown? Shouldn't someone actually shot during the course of a robbery = an armed robbery? Why on earth does an aggravated robbery count less than an armed robbery as far as anyone is concerned (feds or otherwise)?
It's true, RBT personnel handles it and therefore it is classified as a Robbery not an Aggravated Battery. However that is how the supp. is entered into the CHRIS system, do they change it at 35th st. I don't know. They should but probbaly do not.
It doesn't happen very often but it happens.
Aggravated robbery has nothing whatsoever got to do with shootings. or old people or any of the other normal things that make a crime "aggravated". Robbery is a theft with the use or threat of the imminent use of force. Armed Robbery is when a robbery occurs while using a weapon to effect the robbery. Aggravated Robbery occurs when the offender "implies that he has a weapon" but doesn't actually have a weapon.
So Endith The Lesson
TRU that, an armed robbery w/vic shot is not classified as Agg Batt w/handgun
This is the Truth and has always been the Truth!!! However this accounts for about maybe 10 to 30 shootings as a total for the year. I have checked this for the last few years on the warehouse so it is a difference... but just not as many as we thought.
Yes this is true... we wouldn't want those nice Olympic folks to get the idea that there are people getting shot and killed here, would we ?
It's the new math. Add a robbery victim, subtract a shooting victim !
Whoever dreams this stuff up keeps people like Pam Zekman employed.
Of course, I believe the FBI already refuses to count statistics out of Daley's Chicago in their annual Summary of National Crime Statistics. Something about our counts being unreliable ?
that trick has been around awhile. hierarchy rule. 031a trumps 041a. brings down agg. batt. numbers.
It's classified as a Robbery - Armed: Handgun and yeth it is not a counter in the "shooting" statistics!
It's classified as Robbery simply because Robbery carries a higher classification than Agg Batt. How could any working Police Officer NOT know that?
hcrabtma,,in order, has always been that way. Multiple action incidents are only recorded as one crime. If Jeff Damer rapes, kills then eats you it is an h. If you get robbed and shot it is an r. The only time it gets confusing is if one is kidnapped in Niles, raped in Park Ridge then killed in Chicago. Who gets what. No part one in Niles, hierarchy gives everything to Chicago. No crime for Niles or Park Ridge. It is an imperfect outdated system. Discuss.
Armed Robbery and it is true.
Aggravated robbery? Excuse me, but I thought Agg Rob was when a weapon was inferred during a robbery but not displayed or fired. If the victim "thinks" a weapon was being used but didn't actually see one, the offender is making like he has a weapon but never displays it. Well, if the Vic never sees an actual weapon but ends up shot, I would infer that there was an actual firearm involved which makes it an Armed Robbery. Who could be stupid enough to think otherwise?
Grab your boots and shovels because it is getting deep around here in Olympic bullcrap.
There is a method code for a person shot. That code is used for tracking of all incidents in which a person is shot including a sexual assault for example. Domestic Shootings have their own code.
It would actually be an armed robbery not an aggravated robbery.
Yes Yes Yes, Armed Robbery but still a Property Crime!
No matter what your iucr is on the case, the admin dicks at 35th have the final word. These numbers NEVER match the actual number of events/ucrs. This is why our homicide rate was so depressed under the Cline admin. (Though I wouldn't mind having chubby back. At least he was a cop.)
TRU DAT!!! Targeted Response Unit still runs the shit, who cares what it gets classified as? I haven't written a case report since my first year on the job and I only have 3 years!!! Let the districts worry about writing paper, we are too busy locking dudes up!!! I lead the city in false TRP arrests.
It's how the detective does his report. The proper way is if 4 people are shot, 1 dies. the case report classification would be 0110(Homicide). On his CHRIS report under the IUCR Codes tab. The detective should use the IUCR Associations box and list the dead victim as 0110 and the other victims as 041A (Battery-Aggravated Handgun)
figures lie, liars figure, right sshanks?
Although it is classified as an armed robbery, it is NOT counted in the Aggravated Battery (person shot) stats that are reported. However, method code 400 still indicates that during a robbery a person is shot. The IUCR sees the total, but usually the public doesn't.
Sorry SCC, but the stats are still there to be measured, and always have been. That's what method codes and CAU codes are for. The code would show "pershot" and get captured for statistics. The Detective Division routinely includes these incidents when compiling these statistics.
Heywood said...
Aggravated robbery? Excuse me, but I thought Agg Rob was when a weapon was inferred during a robbery but not displayed or fired. If the victim "thinks" a weapon was being used but didn't actually see one, the offender is making like he has a weapon but never displays it. Well, if the Vic never sees an actual weapon but ends up shot, I would infer that there was an actual firearm involved which makes it an Armed Robbery. Who could be stupid enough to think otherwise?
Grab your boots and shovels because it is getting deep around here in Olympic bullcrap.
4/23/2009 07:40:00 AM
The did this reclassification shit during the 80's news media caught it are they doing the same shit all over again? New boss same as old boss! Thought fbi agents never lied?
Homicide
Crim Sex Assault
Robbery (& Armed of course)
Agg. Batt.
Burglary
THeft
Motor Vehicle THeft
Arson
THat's the order ...so the poster is right ... Robbery is higher ..
whether the dept counts a robbery where the victim as shot as a 'shooting' -- who the hell knows -- I don't know ---
Years ago while investigation an agg batt in 002 the canvas disclosed that the victim had been approached and asked for his money before being shot.
The WC/Lt almost pissed in his pants because now it was robbery instead of an agg batt. His stats and all the BS reporting/notifications were minimized. Sick fucking reporting process we have.
The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars.
It's dirty ritchie
I thought that this is one of the "fixes" that AIRA was designed for.
When you make a case report in that system, you can/are supposed to list all applicable UCR coses so that "an accurate count can be made".
This is what I was taught when it 1st came out in prototype districts 5 years ago.
Did something change? I mean this is a world city now we want everthing accurate and above board, don't we????
Does anyone know the site that compares how dangerous the big cities are throughout the world? Maybe it's safer in Bagdad-have IOC check that out -it would be great for world peace.
Under the new aria system both are entered into the classification box so maybe the counts will be more accurate? nahhh can't have that
How is an armed robbery with the robber shot by the victim classed? (I'm assuming the victim is in legal possession of the firearm.)
ECS
Ah yes but hasn't this problem been solved by the AIRA system. The automated reporting system allows for multiple UCR codes unlike the old paper system. This means that the reporting officer should use both the armed robbery and the aggravated battery classifications thereby increasing the stats and not decreasing them!!
In CHRIS they add it as a second UCR for reporting. It is counted if it is in CHRIS with the second UCR.
One crime can have numerous UCR'S attached to it.
Everyone calm down starting to sound like crazies
This is the way it has been in Chicago and every other city that uses Uniform Crime Reporting in the USA, and has been that way since at least the early 1960's and probably much earlier. Yes, I know we swithched to the Illinois UCR sometime in the 1970's but that changed very little, and was mostly procedural, and it was not because theFBI distrusted our reports.
In Chris Detectives can associate multiple UCR codes to a victim. If someone is shot during a robbery it is classified as an armed robbery. The detective can then associate the aggravated battery UCR to the victim as well. It's the same for a homicide where one person is dead but multiple people are shot. The incident is classified as a homicide and associated with the dead victim. The other victim's have agg. bat. associated to them.
just pull a 041A. if the dics want to change it they will. "vicitm heard shots, then felt pain realized he was shot in the _______." nfi. a lot of these fucks shot say they were robbed but it was really something else.
Let's get real. How many times have you made an attempt burglary report and the Sgt. told you to change it a CDTP. They kill all kinds of crime on paper.
Shot? Nobody was shot, dude fell and got a boo-boo.
Chicago is safe! i dn't know what all of you are talking about!
No one is ever robbed or shot over here a 14th and Indiana.
You guys are so silly.
Last time I checked...............it's all bulls-it.
How the hell is a robbery higher on the hierarchy than an agg batt? Shouldn't we pull a 0110 for an attempted murder??? Only if you want to hear your w.c flip out.
Anonymous said...
Years ago while investigation an agg batt in 002 the canvas disclosed that the victim had been approached and asked for his money before being shot.
The WC/Lt almost pissed in his pants because now it was robbery instead of an agg batt. His stats and all the BS reporting/notifications were minimized. Sick fucking reporting process we have.
4/23/2009 10:39:00 AM
.............
A couple of years ago I had a Agg batt Shooting on the border of 006 and 022. I happened in 022. I received a call a couple of days later from the CAPS Sgt in 022 asking me if I could change the address to 006 so it would not affect their stats. I hung up.
SCC. Keep it up. Thank You! Show the truth to people that dont know any better. The dept has been downgrading crime and shuffling paper and stats since I've been on the job some 20+ years. Burglaries turn into criminal trespass, agg batts turn into domestics.
Scary to hear how uninformed some of our officers are. I know it's everyone elses' fault, not your own!
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