Pension "Reform"?
Anyone want to explain this? In English?
We assume it means no one will ever retire, no one will ever get hired, and we'll never see a pension check.
Thank goodness we have serious leaders who would never let this get to a crisis point.
We assume it means no one will ever retire, no one will ever get hired, and we'll never see a pension check.
Thank goodness we have serious leaders who would never let this get to a crisis point.
Labels: pension
posted by SCC at 12:04 AM
93 Comments:
Follow the comments on these Tribune Pension stories, and it scares me. They don't seem to get the fact that this was the city's fault.
Can I opt out of the pension fund and get the money that I have put in for the last 12 years back? I am serious. Is this an option that is available? I JUST WANT THE MONY THAT I HAVE PAID IN TO THE FUND TO DATE BACK!!!!!
This City and Department are a f*cking joke!!!!!
Daley on his way out and still trying to screw us.
Examine Illinois Senate Bill 3538. The Bill hits the Senate floor tomorrow. It is all but a done deal.
The boogers are are twofold.
Far and away, the most egregious is the political mismanagement of the fund (police and firefighter funding is presently below 40% and a ticking time bomb with not much time left on the clock), but lets not overlook the dogass fund managers who have underperformed with the money they do have.
I've said it a million times, the people paying in to these pensions REALLY need to be aware of who is managing their money and the performance levels those people are achieving. If they under-perform with your pension money, kick their ass to the breadline, or back to whatever mid-level mutual fund analysts cubicle they originally crawled out from.
Long gone are the days of pay-and-forget contributions where things always go up and monkeys throwing darts can make money. Just like people need to be politically informed, they also need to be financially informed, if there are other people managing their money.
I'm not saying that every institutional fund manager has to be David F. Swensen, but the present fund can do SOSOSO much better than the dogshit they have minding it today.
Far and away your biggest problem is the politicians, but do not ignore the under-performing fund managers who have been getting away with murder, either. You're being double-dicked from both ends.
News Analysis: "Police and Firefighter Pensions"
Saw this discussion on Chicago Tonight. They passed a two tier pension system requiring ALL new hires to stay till 55 yoa. The City will also be FORCED to fund the pensions at a higher level than they have been. If they haven't made significant progress in doing that by 2015, the pension funds will get state tax money earmarked for other purposes (eg. roads, construction etc) redirected in to the pension fund INSTEAD of its intended purpose. Of course, we wouldn't be in this position if they were not shorting their funding obligation to begin with.
This will help the pension burden down the road, but still leaves a problem for the fund to cover all current employees who can still leave at 50 yoa AND retirees already collecting a pension check. Daley says that raising pension contributions by current and future employees is the only answer to solve that crisis without TOTALLY dumping it in the lap of the taxpayer.
It's not all good news, but alternatives could include a bankrupt pension that will do no one any good.
http://www.wttw.com/main.taf?p=42,8,80
How about a story on all the money Mayor Daley extorted from our pension. Unbelievable what we have let him get away with.
The FOP. USELESS.
Meanwhile Dearest son Patrick Daley is rubbing toes with the Russians. Hence the Taxi Cab syndrome. Yet If we used the "N" word or pushed a mutt during an arrest we would be rubbing toes with Officer Bill Cozzi.
What a sad bunch we Police are. God Bless Officer Flisk and his family.
Attention applicants, let's compare lifetime retirement benefits.
After a three decades of risking your life, missing family gatherings on weekends and holidays, enduring the strain and the health repercussions of shift work, etc.....
Join LAPD, you can retire at 50 and your pension can reach up to 90% of your pay. You will earn 3% for each year of service maxed out at 30 years.
Join CPD, you can retire at 55 and your pension can reach up to 75% of your pay. You will earn 2.5 % for each year of service maxed out at 29 year and one day of service.
It is a no brainer.
Congratulations to the legislature, the best recruits will be going elsewhere.
CPD will be the brightest recruits "last choice" for a career in the policing profession.
So many complaints about the pension fund yet since 1993 officers have blindly kept electing the useless Ken Hauser.
In the last pension newsletter was an article about CHINA! Not the dire straits of the pension fund or what to do but there was what looked like a verbatim lift out of Wikipedia or similar feel good article about China.
Complain now but also rue the votes over many years for Hauser.
Everyone is bitter and wants their money, why the fuck did everyone keep electing this useless blob?
Did Hauser ever sound the alarm? No. Did Hauser let us know that Vanecko & Davis were looting our pension fund? No. Did Hauser fight to keep from paying the law school tuition of Gallagher's secretary Katrina Fruin? No.
What has Hauser done except stay well fed? Beats me.
Yet he kept getting elected until he retired. Then the retirees have kept on electing him as the retiree rep!
If Mike Shields didn't get in there we would still be in the dark and as it is, Mark Donahue chops the shit out of Mike's articles for the FOP Newsletter.
Here's a relevant suggestion:
Pay closer attention to who we elect as pension board rep, retiree pension board rep and FOP President.
As for mayor, it should be obvious we don't have much say in that one, we'll get who gets shoved down our throats.
Anonymous said...
Daley on his way out and still trying to screw us.
12/01/2010 01:41:00 AM
He's succeeding too.
Eliminate the Gold Brain pension. period. Cut that shit out. Highest Civil Service rank is what your pension is based on. That will help.
A two-tiered pension system for new and existing employees will “probably be necessary,” even though it “poses serious moral issues,” could hurt employee recruitment and “might be subject to challenge” in the courts, the report concluded.
This came out of that article. When they say new and existing employees, that tells me we will not be grandfathered in as existing employees. They will just tell us ok now you can't retire untill 55 or 60 and you will only get 60 % max. If this is true they better give us some warning so I can get the fuck out with my 24 and 60% while I am 50 or I will have to work 5 more years for only 50%. Why not make the tax payers pay, I pay taxes and I am always hearing people say "I pay your salary", ok now you can pay my pension too. This is all Daley's fault and he wants to shift the blame on us and make us the bad guys to the general public. Great job mayor asswipe while we put one of our own in the ground today because you will not hire any support for us.
I've said it a million times, the people paying in to these pensions REALLY need to be aware of who is managing their money and the performance levels those people are achieving. If they under-perform with your pension money, kick their ass to the breadline, or back to whatever mid-level mutual fund analysts cubicle they originally crawled out from.
There are 8 trustees that are on the prnsion board. They vote on where the money goes. 4 of them are elected by the mayor and 4 are elected by us. Their names are Shields, Hauser, Maloney and Lazzaro). These are the people that we elected to manage are money. The goof Lazzaro was in 014 the other day and all he talked about was his position on the board. Not to bright.
How about a story on all the money Mayor Daley extorted from our pension. Unbelievable what we have let him get away with.
The FOP. USELESS.
Is it snowing outside. Yep, blame Fop. Those bastards. I could be wrong, but the Pension Board website has investment meetings one a month. I believe that the same trustees vote where to invest our money. Wouldn't they be responsible. Ohh look its snowing again. Freak'in Fop
Join LAPD, you can retire at 50 and your pension can reach up to 90% of your pay. You will earn 3% for each year of service maxed out at 30 years.
******************************
And just how long do you think that will continue? I hope you don't think it will, because it's not.
http://www.sj-r.com/breaking/x1316692494/Illinois-House-approves-cuts-in-police-and-fire-pensions
hERE IS THE INFO ON BILL KEEP WORKING HARD KIDS FOR NOTHING!
IM WILLING TO TAKE A HIT
IN EXCHANGE FOR THE RIGHT TO LIVE ANYWHERE I WANT!
SOUNDS FAIR.
I have an idea to help fund out pension obligations. How about for every ticket we write, 25% goes to our pension fund and the rest can go to the city. Sounds like a good win/win deal for both sides.
America is broke and this is only the beginning. In total, we have 100 trillion dollars in unfunded entitlement benefits (pensions, social security, medicare, etc....).
The math just plain doesn't work. Be prepared for "shared sacrifices" and "austerity programs" to hit the U.S. of A.
Madigan and Cullerton are about to stick it to the retirees and current working members of CPD and especially those who pay real estate taxes in the City of Chicago.
Then they will represent those who can pay their law firms large sums in order to get their real estate taxes lowered.
In the end they make money and we get screwed.
Hey, Guys. He'll never post a comment blowing his own horn, but DONAHUE was in Springfield ALL WEEK working to secure funding for the pension fund. He got it passed and now Daley is flipping out because the pension actually has to be funded by 2015.
There was also a Mike Shields/ Sgt. Lazzaro sighting in Springfield. Shields wasn't doing shit except telling anyone who would listen how he was going to be the next FOP prez. Give it a rest kid, you ain't accomplished shit. Not one fucking thing since we elected you.
Don't be fooled people. FOP is working harder than anyone out there to keep our pension afloat while Shields is working harder than anyone telling everyone how great he is and how FOP got us too many pension benefits.
Here is a direct quote from our Pension Trustee Mike Shields:
"There needs to be an increase in contributions from both the employer and employee (which most likely will happen soon-prepare yourself to pay 10.5%), a pension bond needs to be issued (before the City's rating goes any lower) and an alternate source of funding outside of the property tax payer needs to be sought (such as ariport revenue)."
TRUTH: The City has been fucking us for years on pension funding and this asshole wants US TO PAY MORE! Shields, are you fucking kidding? Increase your own contributions, Citysuckhole.
But yet they push the "civil union relationship" because that is such a priority at this time!
I do give those involved in a "civil union" a lot of credit, they are a strong voting block, sorry though I dont agree with special interest groups! We demand this because we are ________ !
Saw this discussion on Chicago Tonight. They passed a two tier pension system requiring ALL new hires to stay till 55 yoa. The City will also be FORCED to fund the pensions at a higher level than they have been. If they haven't made significant progress in doing that by 2015, the pension funds will get state tax money earmarked for other purposes (eg. roads, construction etc) redirected in to the pension fund INSTEAD of its intended purpose. Of course, we wouldn't be in this position if they were not shorting their funding obligation to begin with.
This eases the mind a little, thank you for info, i agrre we must all be vigiliant. God bless Flisk & Peters Families
The assumed 8% annual return that police pension funds are supposed to be gaining is part of the problem. The system is rigged against us little people. Wall Street companies like Goldman Sachs are robbing us blind while at the same time getting bailouts from us same little people. This whole country is screwed. Can you say "dying days of a former great empire"?
"Can I opt out of the pension fund and get the money that I have put in for the last 12 years back? I am serious. Is this an option that is available? I JUST WANT THE MONY THAT I HAVE PAID IN TO THE FUND TO DATE BACK!!!!!
This City and Department are a f*cking joke!!!!!"
I'm an advocate of this, however, just getting your contributions back is short-sighted. I'll take my contributions + 100% return on those contributions. I'm guessing your total contributions are around 70k to date, thus, receiving 140k in a lump, non-taxed sum to be deposited in a self directed IRA or perhaps your deferred compensation account. At the minimum, in your case, you have 8 years to 20 years on the job. If you're in your
40's you still have quite a few years till you are forced off the job to grow that lump sum via investment AND maxing out in deferred compensation. If you opted out then laws should be written to allow for a greater % deferral than already exits for deferred compensation. Perhaps max out % could be25% of gross, thus allowing for that money to grow quicker.
This could be a viable alternative to anyone who isn't already 50 years old. It is also an obvious better alternative to receiving nothing when you retire. Anyone who doesn't see the possible benefits of this choice is either an old-time who doesn't understand the power of large sums of money earning compounding interest + the factor of time. Or, they just want the warm feel of their "wubby" (monthly check) because they don't have the knowledge to manage their own finances and want the responsibility of their financial well-being.
police officers born after Jan 1955
will not receive 3% cola until age 60 with a 30 % cap
that's how they will save pension money on current officers
no more health insurance for retirees after June 2013
good luck to any police officer with less than 20 years , you better pray they raise mandatory retirement to 67
The problem is anyone with a brain and a little foresight could have seen this coming. Not only did the union miss a golden chance to negotiate with this, they actually hurt us by fighting it. The two tier pension is an inevitably. I think the scare rumors about it caused one of the greatest negotiating chips we've ever had to go to waste and either our own union and pension board was in on it or they're just plain stupid
From the Chicago Tribune article:
"The bill also would limit payouts by setting $106,800 as the highest level on which a person's pension could be based."
MY QUESTION is this all only applies to future hires.. therefore how can you base an actual about of $106,800 a year for someone who is going to retire in 30years??????
For the Chicago Police pension fund the best soultion is just to put a seperate bill in that would get rid of the "Gold Braid/exempt benifits"... a Commander should collect the pension of a LT. or Captain. That would be a less complicated system.
Join LAPD, you can retire at 50 and your pension can reach up to 90% of your pay.
-----
Wake up pal.. California is soon to be bankrupt and everyone will be forced to speak spanish.
Anonymous said...
Attention applicants, let's compare lifetime retirement benefits................
12/01/2010 05:37:00 AM
Yeah, let's compare our bankrupt state to another bankrupt state.
WAKE UP. The BIG pension was a promise that can't be fulfilled OR sustained.
Why don't we look at New Jersey? Their governor doesn't seem to have any problems saying, "HEY you are being guaranteed too much money and the state can't afford it." At least he is telling it straight.
Wake up and smell the coffee. This nation is bankrupt and your pension is going to get cut, just like everyone else who had to make adjustments because they lost jobs, benefits and seniority.
Companies have merged and those at the subordinate company had to lose benefits and time built up.
Are you going to donate to their loss of pension and benefits? NO. You think nothing of it. If you even knew that it was happening all around. So don't cry when it happens to you.
Blame all the yo-yos that you voted to run your pension plan. Instead of voting for a buddy, you should have voted for someone who knew about complex financial decisions.
http://www.wttw.com/chicagotonight/video/xFWzms8mEDK80GWrCAtswtCPfaTB6Amf/
This was discussed on Chicago Tonight
I'm a lil confused about where they said the benefit cap will be 106,800 per person so 20 or 30 years from now with the pay increases and cost of living and or promotions. How does that work? Are getting cheated has anyone done the math?
I wonder if Mayor Daley's pension is ok?
I will go with my forecasts for the last 2 years
pension fund goes belly up
earliest -2018
latest - 2022
Those that run it do not get there on "merit" -- those financial advisors are picked because of politics /political correctness. If they day traded futures they would be broke in a week.
By the way-- ask some of the elected members how many free trips they have had from some of those so called advisors. I see nothing ever written about it.
old retired guy
The house passed the bill Monday Will raise the retirement age to 55from 50 and one thing that was not mentioned was that your pension will be based on the best 8 of the last 10 years, not the current best4 of the last 10 years. That will reduce your pension
Not good about raising the age to 55, but coincides with raising the age to become a po to 25 To reach maximum retirement of 29 and a day you will be 55, just a coincidence
Also it allows the city to revisit the funding part of the city is unable to make the payments
Now it heads to the senate
"Meanwhile Dearest son Patrick Daley is rubbing toes with the Russians. Hence the Taxi Cab syndrome. Yet If we used the "N" word or pushed a mutt during an arrest we would be rubbing toes with Officer Bill Cozzi...."
***********************************
Very true!
So, exactly what is Patrick Daley up to these days?
Well, for one, he was running around looking pretty pumped up (on steroids?) in Russia and proudly wears Russia's colors and symbols instead of USA colors.
Check it...
http://www.chicagoclout.com/weblog/archives/2010/02/mayor_daley_tells_everyone_abo.html
He has since re-enlisted and has been re-deployed by the Army to an undisclosed location, according to the Free Republic...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2447842/posts
While we bury our fellow officers, ShortShanks buries his own son in a different way. Possibly to keep him out of jail?
Hmmmmm......
.
"reform"......nothing would need to be reformed if the city met their end of the deal.
and now the books will be balanced on our backs.....we met our obligation.
WTF ?
HMMM- Now I have to give this some thought. Retirement plans for 2013 may have just been pushed back to 2025.
Keep Working!!
Anonymous Anonymous said...
The assumed 8% annual return that police pension funds are supposed to be gaining is part of the problem. The system is rigged against us little people. Wall Street companies like Goldman Sachs are robbing us blind while at the same time getting bailouts from us same little people. This whole country is screwed. Can you say "dying days of a former great empire"?
12/01/2010 09:05:00 AM
You sound like a liberal socialist communist. Goldman Sachs and Wall Street is the reason why America is a free capitalist country. GFY you liberal retard.
It seems just about every large city and state is struggling with employee pensions. Illinois is not alone. The retirement age for CPD used to be 57years of age and you had to be on the job by age 31 unless you had military service. Ffrom everything I have heard and read, current employees must have their pensions altered or the funds will collapse. This might still happen down the road. It seems the new bill limits pensions to 106 grand a year which would, if true, limit the gold braid pensions to a cap. I just do not think this is the end of this discussion or legislation. It seems that if the state puts a referendum on the ballot they can alter our pensions without a constitutional convention.
Bill HB3538 passed with a vote of 95-18 The down state Republicans mayors and state reps placed an advisory referendum on 44 ballots on Nov 2 2010 in which the votes were asked if they wanted the legislature and governor to enact police pension reform.
What your good citizens said--They voted 80% yes, Republicans in Illinois say their constituents say its about time we cut the pensions for police, everyone else is taking a hit why not them. One women went on to say what makes a police officers job more dangerous then a plumbers job???
My answer is NO one is out to Murder or do harm to a plumber.
This is the wonderful public we serve and get serious hurt for.
This sickens me.
Eliminate the "Gold Braid" pension, now !
Is it just me, or does the FOP have a few paid posters trying to hold the wool over the eyes of the 2 or 3 remaining FOP members who haven't seen the light?
The FOP leadership has screwed you guys for decades. The politicians have screwed you guys for decades. You guys have screwed yourselves for decades by ignoring the beatings you've taken at the hands of the FOP leadership and politicians.
Your pension is absolutely, woefully, underfunded. There are no two ways about it, and Mike Shields is the only one even telling you the truth about what has happened and is happening.
I'm not sure who would be the best FOP leadership for you guys today, and I'm not pimping for anyone including Shields. What I can tell you, absolutely and unequivocally, is that your retirement has been greatly endangered by the acceptance of false promises from your FOP leadership and the politicians for decades.
Yes, whoever is even left in Chicago paying taxes cannot afford city workers retiring at 50. They can't afford all the final-year promotions for friends of politicians. They can't afford half of what they've been doing the past 30 years.
You want proof? Look at how much Chicago is in debt, and maybe take a look at the City's bond rating.
I don't have any answers here, but I can absolutely 100% guarantee that you guys are better off knowing the truth. The truth is that your retirement has been tremendously endangered.
Hey, Guys. He'll never post a comment blowing his own horn, but DONAHUE was in Springfield ALL WEEK working to secure funding for the pension fund. He got it passed and now Daley is flipping out because the pension actually has to be funded by 2015.
There was also a Mike Shields/ Sgt. Lazzaro sighting in Springfield. Shields wasn't doing shit except telling anyone who would listen how he was going to be the next FOP prez. Give it a rest kid, you ain't accomplished shit. Not one fucking thing since we elected you.
Not a lover of FOP but reading downstate news papers this is true.
As long as Obama is the President, the economy will be in the toilet. When the economy is in the toilet, so are our pension investments.
De-elect Obama!
Even if a reform hurts, remember: it's better than bancruptcy. Look what United did to its retirees and employees in federal BK court. Pensions there are now less than one third of what was promised.
If Daley's successor took this to bancruptcy, we could be selling pencils on street corners...
Here is a direct quote from our Pension Trustee Mike Shields:
"There needs to be an increase in contributions from both the employer and employee (which most likely will happen soon-prepare yourself to pay 10.5%), a pension bond needs to be issued (before the City's rating goes any lower) and an alternate source of funding outside of the property tax payer needs to be sought (such as ariport revenue)."
TRUTH: The City has been fucking us for years on pension funding and this asshole wants US TO PAY MORE! Shields, are you fucking kidding? Increase your own contributions, Citysuckhole.
When will are Pension trustees (Shields, Hauser, Lazzaro and Maloney) start working in the best interests of us instead of themselves. Shields needs to protect our fund not fight to make us give more money. Thats right Shields wanted to increase our pension contributions and not the cities. Hopefully will will get the funding promise in Springfield today. keep our fingers crossed.
eliminate gold braid pension
no pension for any rank that's appointed by city hall
this way if they eliminate captain rank and start selecting lieutenants from resumes
pension will be based on sergeant
pay , it's the only fair way
why should 10,000 blue shirts support political appointed captains , command staff and in the future lieutenants
Don't blame Shields on this: the facts are very simple.
If you want to be one of those who takes out in the future, you're going to have to put more in in the future. It's going to have to happen, so get used to it.
Get a permanent side job, open a business, so what you have to do. We all want to get a pension, so we're going to have to ante up more for the kitty. What we ALL really need to do is have a pension board who is MORE ON TOP OF THESE THINGS, and is held strictly accountable! I love Mike Shields...we just need more reps on the Pension board of his mentality.
'Join LAPD, you can retire at 50 and your pension can reach up to 90% of your pay. You will earn 3% for each year of service maxed out at 30 years.'
What this poster is NOT telling you is, LAPD doesn't have many 30 year retirees. Most people walk away from LAPD well before 25 years. The health and weight standards run a lot of people away as they mature.
if the city gets out of the pension business they will have to contibute to our social security. they contribute 50% and the employee pays 50% (taken out of your paycheck.)
The fed doesn't wait for city contributions to be paid when the city feels like it. The city is forced to pay.
This is why the city doesn't just bail on the pension system altogether.
Right now, the city has the best of both worlds, no forced fed social sec. contributions and they don't pay their obligated ratio contribution to the pension.
LAPD is one of the few CA Police pensions that IS NOT 90% at 30 years, we are also not part of the CALPERS pension program (which is a good thing). most CA Police departments are part of Calpers. In order to get 90% you have to work 32 years. The LAPD is such a miserable place, where FUN is prohibited, most guys dont even stay for 20 years. They go to another department!! If you guys think doing a TRR is bad, try doing one of our Use of Force Reports ect. We are the most politically correct police department in the world, we could never get away with any of the stuff that you guys do!! Remember the GRASS is NOT greener at the LAPD!!
The best pension is most likely the SFPD. They have their own pension that is not part of CALPERS, but they do get the 3% per year and 90% at 30 years
watch for massive layoffs in all depts from next mayor.
this bill was not near as drastic as what the cities and some legislators wanted. this was going to happen but the damage was limited and there will now be compliance and penalties against cities that dont fund the pensions(something all of the cities fought against)
Anonymous said...
police officers born after Jan 1955
will not receive 3% cola until age 60 with a 30 % cap
that's how they will save pension money on current officers
no more health insurance for retirees after June 2013
good luck to any police officer with less than 20 years , you better pray they raise mandatory retirement to 67
12/01/2010 09:44:00 AM
You nee to actually read the Korshak decision and see who it really affects.
Cities are going broke across the nation and then...then we see this:
Feds Order all US Governments to Change Street Signs.
Yes my friends, a study shows that we have to take down ALL the signs printed in block caps and use upper and lower case letters in a Title style printing instead.
Millions of dollars to waste at a time what states are going bankrupt.
Google the words " street signs change"
New York to change street signs for $27 million - Telegraph
Sep 30, 2010 ... New York's capital-lettered street signs are to be replaced with new lower-cased versions, at a cost to the public of $27 million
Proposed street sign changes meet resistance
WFAA - David Schechter - 2 days ago
The City of Dallas said it has 300000 street signs and has slowly been changing them over to upper-and-lower case, so the costs would be small.
Uniform road sign program costly
MyFoxOrlando.com - 1 day ago
WASHINGTON, DC (WOFL FOX 35) - The federal government is mandating that communities change their street signs and it will likely cost thousands of dollars
Yep, all across the country.
Two million people will get kicked off unemployment extended benefits tonight and we have money for this.
Our pensions being raided for this.
You can bet for sure some corporation that makes the signs has some clout in Washington to pull it off.
Thank god the Mike Shields plan of our contributions going from 9 to 10.5% did not pass. Why does our guy want our contributions to increase? He said it. not me.
Anonymous said...
Daley on his way out and still trying to screw us.
12/01/2010 01:41:00 AM
I hope daley spends the rest of his life passing turds the size & consistency of house bricks. The daley name will be remembered as a family of "executive thugs" who really bled the city dry for their financial gain. I hope richard J saves a place for his son richard m in that pile of rotting feces where he will spend eternity.
The FOP leadership has screwed you guys for decades. The politicians have screwed you guys for decades. You guys have screwed yourselves for decades by ignoring the beatings you've taken at the hands of the FOP leadership and politicians.
Have a nice day Mike.
For the fund to be fully vested the formula used today takes into account if all the officers on the CPD retired at once could the pension fund sustain them? This is not realistic.
There is no way the CPD is going to go poof into the night. This formula needs to be updated.
Anonymous said...
Here is a direct quote from our Pension Trustee Mike Shields:
"There needs to be an increase in contributions from both the employer and employee (which most likely will happen soon-prepare yourself to pay 10.5%), a pension bond needs to be issued (before the City's rating goes any lower) and an alternate source of funding outside of the property tax payer needs to be sought (such as ariport revenue)."
TRUTH: The City has been fucking us for years on pension funding and this asshole wants US TO PAY MORE! Shields, are you fucking kidding? Increase your own contributions, Citysuckhole.
When will are Pension trustees (Shields, Hauser, Lazzaro and Maloney) start working in the best interests of us instead of themselves. Shields needs to protect our fund not fight to make us give more money. Thats right Shields wanted to increase our pension contributions and not the cities. Hopefully will will get the funding promise in Springfield today. keep our fingers crossed.
ANOTHER IDIOT WHO DOES NT KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING A BOUT THE CITY MATCHES OUR CONTRIBUTION 2:1
if you increase our contribution the city has to pay more,, thats why the city does nt like that idea...................
This came out of that article. When they say new and existing employees, that tells me we will not be grandfathered in as existing employees. They will just tell us ok now you can't retire untill 55 or 60 and you will only get 60 % max.
Your wrong look up the bill. starts for new employees Jan 2011.
Back in the day when they had the higher retirement age and lower benefits and much lower salary they also had something the old-timers euphemistically referred to as "profit sharing."
There were some other reforms that put an end to the quaint practice of taking a sawbuck every now and then. Like every time you caught a speeder or some drunk with a pocket full of USC.
That activity is now frowned upon so we need our pensions and deferred comp plans. A percent or so more now to insure the future health of the system is OK as long as the City gives it's fair share and the multiplier is increased according to actuarial recommendations.
Were any of the four elected representatives of our pension plan in Springfield the last three days?
I know that the Sgt's rep went down once to block a bill that would have had all of the pension board spots voted at large. He saved his bacon but he was not down there at all two weeks ago when we needed him there. Was mike and Ken there all three days? Just asking what they do other than the two meetings a month!
If people here feel the need to bash Mike Shields in regards to the New bill passage for the Pension then maybe it is due to the fact that you are afraid that he very well will become the next FOP president. You must be part of the current FOP administration. He has serve us well on the Pension board and I have no doubts he will become the next FOP president. If you bash Shields you must feel threatened of losing or your friend losing the battle against MIke
Follow the comments on these Tribune Pension stories, and it scares me.
Thats exactly what the liberal reporters want to do. To scare all citizens, because they do not like or respect civil workers and most are bitter and jealous that you should get a pension when they dont! Politicians get their pensions, we will get ours.
Let a scared reporter put on the uniform, not be home for their family holidays, work midnights etc. get shot at and risk their lives daily, They wont!!! But they want to f(&K you over with their stories..
Stop reading the Trib as well as the other rag. The papers are just about ready to go under. And damn, how many reporters will then be unemployed. I cancelled my sub. a long time ago.
Ads keep the papers alive.
I doubt they have that many readers as they claim anymore.
WHATS WITH ALL THE COMPARING TO CALIFORNIA?
U GUYS INTENDING TO MOVE?
MAY BE TAKE A NEW POWER TEST AND PSYCHE TEST!
LOOK AT THE PROBLEM IN FRONT OF U MOST OF U DONT KNOW WHO IS ON THE PENSION BOARD.
BUT IF I ASK U WHO IS THE PUNT RETURNER FOR THE BEARS U RUN OFF STATS!
MAY BE ITS TIME TO STOP WORRYING ABOUT THE NEW GUN THE DEPARTMENT LETS U BUY.
GO TO AN FOP MEETING. U WILL BE IN SHOCK AT THE PEOPLE WHO REPRESENT U.
AND ALL THE RETIREES WHO THINK THEY ARE SAFE NEW FLASH THAT 3% COLA IS THE 1ST THING THAT WILL GO!
SO INSTEAD OF STUFFING UR FACE WITH PIZZA DO SOMETHING. GO TO A PENSION BOARD MEETING READ THOSE NEWSLETTERS ASK QUESTIONS.
IT IS UR LIVELY-HOOD ON THE LINE
Two million people will get kicked off unemployment extended benefits tonight and we have money for this.
Our pensions being raided for this.
You can bet for sure some corporation that makes the signs has some clout in Washington to pull it off.
Indeed millions unemployed yet the big corporations are making record profits, and the congress is worried about the wealthy receiving tax breaks. Like they are going to share, The joke is on us.
eliminate gold braid pension
no pension for any rank that's appointed by city hall
this way if they eliminate captain rank and start selecting lieutenants from resumes
pension will be based on sergeant
pay , it's the only fair way
why should 10,000 blue shirts support political appointed captains , command staff and in the future lieutenants
Excellent post, if you take a bite of the merit apple, you should only receive your pension from the last civil service rank you held prior to being promoted because of you political clout. If you haven't noticed how much they have been moving around these gold braid spots. Every one is blaming Weiss for getting rid of experience for non experience. Actually all he is doing is what he is told. Most of the people being dumped are part of the KMA so they can just leave with a huge gold braid pension. Then some other political hack gets appointed so they can also retire in a few short years with a gold braid pension. This in so unethical and this is one of the many reasons our pensions are in trouble today.
This could be a viable alternative to anyone who isn't already 50 years old. It is also an obvious better alternative to receiving nothing when you retire. Anyone who doesn't see the possible benefits of this choice is either an old-time who doesn't understand the power of large sums of money earning compounding interest +
Your a softball- all you need is another melt down. This is all bull shit.I just retired I'm receiving 4,625.00 a month 55,500 a year plus 3% cola. How long until I receive all my contribution. very soon. GFY you fool.
Another factor that would help the pension fund with additional funds would be wage compression.
If you reached peak salary at say 10 years, you would also reach peak pension contribution.
But the bottom line is that if the local governments do not make their required contributions on time, the whole house of cards crashes down. That is what is happening now.
Their survivors WHERE getting 100% now they will ONLY get 66.75% Man, was that a well kept secret.
How about the alderman and the legislature themselves are they changing any of their pensions. What are their current pension benefits? Where can we get a copy? They are real quiet about theirs cause there fucking you man.
If people here feel the need to bash Mike Shields in regards to the New bill passage for the Pension then maybe it is due to the fact that you are afraid that he very well will become the next FOP president. You must be part of the current FOP administration. He has serve us well on the Pension board and I have no doubts he will become the next FOP president. If you bash Shields you must feel threatened of losing or your friend losing the battle against MIke
Mike, please tell us again how wonderful you are. If smoke and mirors are what you want then Mike is your guy.
ANOTHER IDIOT WHO DOES NT KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING A BOUT THE CITY MATCHES OUR CONTRIBUTION 2:1
if you increase our contribution the city has to pay more,, thats why the city does nt like that idea...................
If you read Shields facebook crap this is what he suggests. He says that the Fop got too many benefits for its membership and only our contributions should go up.
You sound like a liberal socialist communist. Goldman Sachs and Wall Street is the reason why America is a free capitalist country. GFY you liberal retard.
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LOL. Goldman Sachs is the nastiest pirate ship in the United States. Congrats for spewing a bunch of mindless, ideological party line, but those guys fucking suck. This is coming from a dyed-in-the-wool capitalist who realizes there's a big difference between capitalism and plutocracy.
Go read up on their retailing tbonds to the Fed. Its one of the most horrific rip-offs ever and its your money being thrown away.
When they say new and existing employees, that tells me we will not be grandfathered in as existing employees
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this is important indeed. Was there not an article in the Trib in the past 2 weeks or so where Rahm-bo spoke to some fireman saying something about cops w/ "less than 15 years?" anyone have any insight on this?
This is a quote from NBC website about Rahm's appearance on "Chicago Tonight" regarding the pension --
"Emanuel suggested that not only should the city start new police and firefighters with lower benefits, it should re-examine the benefits of current employees."
Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/Rahm-Emanuel-on-Chicago-Tonight-111039849.html#ixzz16xEpQtDK
CURRENT EMPLOYEES - what does this mean? We now pay 9% per Illinois law. Firemen, I believe, pay 9.25%. What exactly does Rahm have in mind? ANyone know?
I know the Illinois Legislature just passed a Pension Reform Bill. It seems reasonably clear to me (unless I am mistaken) that it effects ONLY new hires.
Again, what is Rahm-bo talking about?
make a meritorious promotion to either detective, Sergeant, or Lieutenant NON-PENSIONABLE
how 'bout that?
Anonymous said...
Were any of the four elected representatives of our pension plan in Springfield the last three days?
I know that the Sgt's rep went down once to block a bill that would have had all of the pension board spots voted at large. He saved his bacon but he was not down there at all two weeks ago when we needed him there. Was mike and Ken there all three days? Just asking what they do other than the two meetings a month!
12/01/2010 10:04:00 PM
It should be reps elected at large. Why should Sgt and Lt get same rep as PO with 11,000 PO's?
At least, Sgt & Lt & Capt get one rep for all. PO's get three reps.
Is there as many as 2,000 supervisors all together? There are at least 5 times that many below the rank of Sgt.
It's only fair, we make up the lion share of contributions, we should have the most representation.
Anonymous said...
Here is a direct quote from our Pension Trustee Mike Shields:
"There needs to be an increase in contributions from both the employer and employee (which most likely will happen soon-prepare yourself to pay 10.5%), a pension bond needs to be issued (before the City's rating goes any lower) and an alternate source of funding outside of the property tax payer needs to be sought (such as ariport revenue)."
TRUTH: The City has been fucking us for years on pension funding and this asshole wants US TO PAY MORE! Shields, are you fucking kidding? Increase your own contributions, Citysuckhole.
When will are Pension trustees (Shields, Hauser, Lazzaro and Maloney) start working in the best interests of us instead of themselves. Shields needs to protect our fund not fight to make us give more money. Thats right Shields wanted to increase our pension contributions and not the cities. Hopefully will will get the funding promise in Springfield today. keep our fingers crossed.
ANOTHER IDIOT WHO DOES NT KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING A BOUT THE CITY MATCHES OUR CONTRIBUTION 2:1
if you increase our contribution the city has to pay more,, thats why the city does nt like that idea...................
12/01/2010 09:26:00 PM
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This city does not match our contributions 2:1 .... you are DEAD WRONG. THe amount the city pays into our pension fund is determined by an actuary. the 2:1 stuff has to do with 401k's and profit sharing. We don't have that. Where the hell do you guys get this nonsense?
THe actuary figures stuff like how many cops will be retiring, how long they will live, how many cops are paying currently into the fund and all that. If the market tanks the city has to dole out more cash. If the market is riding high the city make actually have to pay nothing and may even have a surplus in the fund. There is no such thing as a 2:1 - there is no set ratio. IN the private sector ERISA regulates the pensions ... I think everything is squared away quarterly, or yearly at worst. If the employer is not toeing the line he gets all kinds of fines. Municipal governments are exempt from the ERISA statute. In other words, there's no fines for not being paid up. This all came to a head because the market tanked. The city more or less hoped the market would keeping going up so the city would not have to put so much $ in. That didn't happen and here we are.
But no, there's no set ratio of employer:employee
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Here is a direct quote from our Pension Trustee Mike Shields:
"There needs to be an increase in contributions from both the employer and employee (which most likely will happen soon-prepare yourself to pay 10.5%), a pension bond needs to be issued (before the City's rating goes any lower) and an alternate source of funding outside of the property tax payer needs to be sought (such as ariport revenue)."
TRUTH: The City has been fucking us for years on pension funding and this asshole wants US TO PAY MORE! Shields, are you fucking kidding? Increase your own contributions, Citysuckhole.
When will are Pension trustees (Shields, Hauser, Lazzaro and Maloney) start working in the best interests of us instead of themselves. Shields needs to protect our fund not fight to make us give more money. Thats right Shields wanted to increase our pension contributions and not the cities. Hopefully will will get the funding promise in Springfield today. keep our fingers crossed.
ANOTHER IDIOT WHO DOES NT KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING A BOUT THE CITY MATCHES OUR CONTRIBUTION 2:1
if you increase our contribution the city has to pay more,, thats why the city does nt like that idea...................
12/01/2010 09:26:00 PM
The fire dept offered to give over 10% but the City turned it down because they don't want to match it.
The 2.0x multiplier is horribly low. It should have been raised incrementally over the past 30 years as needed.
It wasn't.
The City didn't want to contribute more. Now they blame us for their not giving what the actuarial told them they need to contribute.
Daley is a master at shifting blame.
This is totally Daley's fault. For Daley's entire 21 years in office he has underfunded the pension.
That is fact.
Now it is time to pay the piper and Daley wants to squirm out of paying.
The bill was held up last night by, guess who? DALEY
Can anyone guess what is going on now, behind the scenes? All sorts of threats and promises are being made.
Do NOT expect the Illinois legislature to do the right thing. When have they ever?
Look for Daley to prevail, he always does, and we get fucked again.
Anonymous said...
You nee to actually read the Korshak decision and see who it really affects.
12/01/2010 07:59:00 PM
_____________________________________
And you need to refer to the Korshak SETTLEMENT as such and not a decision.
You see there are people who have a vested interest in getting us to forget that that settlement was an agreement between the city and the suing retirees. It was not a decision handed down by a judge.
Those retirees want us to think that a judge imposed this 2013 date when in reality it was the city AND the retirees who stated "Hey it works for me, I get mine."
I didn't forget what it was. It was a settlement so the people who agreed to it thought it was fine at my expense.
A judge didn't force feed that on us. In the end it was agreed to.
It's a settlement NOT a decision.
Remember to vote in the upcoming FOP elections so that retirees don't have control active members. When it comes down to it, it's all about they got theirs, they can give a crap about active members and the end result of this thinking was this settlement.
I am not for retirees voting or having a voice on what happens to benefits for current officers. And, this is not just with the FOP. If you look at the officers on the Chicago Plice Retired Association, it is composed of some former FOP officials. This way they have a voice. However, on the flip side, many unions can negotiate retired benefits, the FOP cannot just as the FOP is prohibited by state law on barginning residency. Daley has tied the hands of the unions in these regards. Someone has to speak for retirees. I just do not believe the retirees sold out the current employee. They were protecting themselves. Daley has formed a commission to study health care benefits for retirees. He is the one who wants to dump everyone. Ldet5 put the blame where it belongs.
Eliminate the Gold Brain pension. period. Cut that shit out. Highest Civil Service rank is what your pension is based on. That will help.
Wake up goof. The "Gold Braid" pension you speak of affects people like E.T.s, Crime Lab, Dicks etc. These aren't "merit hack" exempts. Most have earned their promotion to the rank they serve. Why shouldn't they be compensated?
Are you one of those leather-assed beat cops that is "happy" working midnights in some shit district because you didn't want to take the time and effort to pass a test and get promoted?
The FOP can only criticize Shields for B.S. stuff without substance. The FOP only comes out of their cacoon every three years for election purposes.
When I see 7th grade grammer while bashing Shields, I know it's Greg Bella!
I've met Mike Shields at a few police events. I would definitely say he has more balls then anybody else in the FOP. I hope Shields is running for FOP president. Shields has repeatedly put his name, and career on the line for the well-being of the police department.
I don't see how the changes make the plan solvent, except as previously posted for those that have already been retired for perhaps 10-15 years. They've received what they contributed and then some.
With the surge of retiring rank and file and gold braid clouted retirees with gold plated retirement plans, there is going to be a giant sucking sound on the cash-flow of the Fund.
Making the situation worse is the reduced number of contributors to the Fund coupled with the malfeasance of the citys management of the Fund.
The recent tweaks to the pension are insufficient and foist upon the coppers comming up the obligation to fund and make sure the generation who fucked the whole thing up gets more while the newbie gets less.
That's not going to sit well with the comming up generation. As they age and control the levels of influence, the retirees who were ahead of the bubble many of whom no long live in state and contribute to the tax base will see benefits reduced. That is, if the whole thing doesn't implode first.
The whole stucture of years of service till retirement, percentage of salary recieved upon retirement and contribution amounts was inadequate, perhaps even if there wasn't the management malfeasance there was.
Changes like retiring at 57 1/2, larger contributions, reduced percentage of working salary (50-60%), years of service increase and residency requirements are what is required.
Something along the lines of how armed forces pensions are structured is needed.
Anything less is just kicking the can down the road.
Well, it's obvious that FOP reads the blog (and most likely Aguilar too, despite his protests that he does not.) Got nothing better to do than bash Shields.
What a joke. You want to credit Donohue with trying to save the day down there? Claim that Shields did nothing? And laughably claim that this is documented in the downstate papers? Sure. Ok. How about a link to said papers.
Shields has been the only good thing on the pension board in the last few years. FOP still wants to operate with a "business as usual" plan. Sorry, boys. That era has ended.
Anonymous said...
Eliminate the Gold Brain pension. period. Cut that shit out. Highest Civil Service rank is what your pension is based on. That will help.
Wake up goof. The "Gold Braid" pension you speak of affects people like E.T.s, Crime Lab, Dicks etc. These aren't "merit hack" exempts. Most have earned their promotion to the rank they serve. Why shouldn't they be compensated?
Are you one of those leather-assed beat cops that is "happy" working midnights in some shit district because you didn't want to take the time and effort to pass a test and get promoted?
12/02/2010 09:54:00 AM
Like I said, eliminate the gold braid. Pension based on civil service rank. Period.
Bid officer in a good district, bid on days, 8th period furlough. KMA club. GFY.
Wake up goof. The "Gold Braid" pension you speak of affects people like E.T.s, Crime Lab, Dicks etc. These aren't "merit hack" exempts. Most have earned their promotion to the rank they serve. Why shouldn't they be compensated?
Bull shit
Anonymous said...
Well, it's obvious that FOP reads the blog (and most likely Aguilar too, despite his protests that he does not.) Got nothing better to do than bash Shields.
What a joke. You want to credit Donohue with trying to save the day down there? Claim that Shields did nothing? And laughably claim that this is documented in the downstate papers? Sure. Ok. How about a link to said papers.
Shields has been the only good thing on the pension board in the last few years. FOP still wants to operate with a "business as usual" plan. Sorry, boys. That era has ended.
12/02/2010 04:38:00 PM
Mike Shields was downstate for days. So was Mark Donahue. I know both worked on this.
I also know that there was unusual cooperation between police and fire and also previous negotiations between police and fire and Chicago.
It wasn't just Shield or just Donahue, neither can take full credit.
Police and Fire in the whole state got together on this and in a very rare occurrence trumped Daley and his BS whining. Daley being a lame duck sure played a part. Everyone knows he will soon be gone.
This took a lot of work and a lot of cooperation and previous negotiations.
A good thing for police and fire throughout the state.
Now Chicago will have to pay attention to pension funding beyond telling employees "we can't afford it."
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