Cut Numbers Down to Size
So what if we shrink Obama's budget numbers down a bit. Take away some zeros. And then apply it to a household budget. That's exactly what some people did in Florida. National Review picks up the story:
The Gainesville Tea Party seems to have the right idea: They take some of our key economic numbers — how much money the U.S. government brings in, how much it spends, and how much brave politicians are “cutting” to bring those numbers into balance — and simply lop off eight zeros (i.e., divide by 100 million) to make those numbers something that American families can relate to:
Why S&P Downgraded the US:
U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000
Federal budget: $3,820,000,000,000
New debt: $ 1,650,000,000,000
National debt: $14,271,000,000,000
Recent [April] budget cut: $ 38,500,000,000Let’s remove 8 zeros and pretend it’s a household budget:
Annual family income: $21,700
Money the family spent: $38,200
New debt on the credit card: $16,500
Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710
Budget cuts: $385
By the way, the stock market dropped 400 points, Europe is on the verge of ruin and that double -dip recession Obama's people said wasn't on the horizon? It passed us a few weeks ago. Watch for the "unexpected drops" in various categories to be announced quietly on Friday afternoons in the coming months.
Labels: money questions
posted by SCC at 12:01 AM
54 Comments:
It's like the perfect stage being set for the G20 ain't it?
Start cutting the budget by deporting one million illegal aliens.
That is a one followed by six zeros.
If that does not seem to work, then deport another one million illegal aliens.
You will probably see positive results in our economy such as gas prices, drops in the crime rate jobless rate and poverty rate by the time you deport ten million illegal aliens.
That is a one followed by seven zeros.
2009 Economic Stimulus: $800,000,000,000.
Population of the US: 307,000,000
Amount of stimulus spent per citizen: $2607, or $10,423 per family of four.
National debt per citizen: $46,485, or $185,940 per family of four.
Remember, only half the population pays federal income tax.
This is NATIONAL DEBT ONLY. City, County, and state debt is more.
Welcome to the Great Depression Two Point Oh.
We're beyond the turning point now and there's no way out.
Doesn't matter if Obama gets his job plan or not the fact of the matter is that we are sending jobs out of the country or bringing in the foreign labor to do them faster than the jobs are being created.
We're at a race to the bottom via this free trade krap that we are not suppose to stand in the way of but is eliminating the middle class.
Secondly the job number hype is a bunch of media b.s.
Oh yeah we created this job and that shovel ready job. They're temporary part-time min-wage WalMart-like non living wage jobs....and if you think that they are going to generate the tax revenue to pull the country, the State, and the City out of the mess that they're in and to fund your public pensions you're sadly mistaken.
OBAMA'S COLLEGE ROOMMATE SPEAKS OUT
By Wayne Allyn Root , June 6th, 2010
Barack Hussien Obama is no fool. He is not incompetent. To the contrary, he is brilliant. He knows exactly what he's doing. He is purposely overwhelming the U.S. economy to create systemic failure, economic crisis and social chaos -- thereby destroying capitalism and our country from within.
Barack Hussien Obama was my college classmate (Columbia University, class of '83).
He is a devout Muslim do not be fooled. Look at his Czars...anti-business and anti-American.
As Glenn Beck correctly predicted from day one, Barack Hussien Obama is following the plan of Cloward & Piven, two professors at Columbia University.
They outlined a plan to socialize America by overwhelming the system with government spending and entitlement demands.
Add up the clues below. Taken individually they're alarming. Taken as a whole, it is a brilliant, Machiavellian game plan to turn the United States into a socialist/Marxist state with a permanent majority that desperately needs government for survival ... and can be counted on to always vote for bigger government. Why not? They have no responsibility to pay for it!
Legalize 12 million illegal Mexican immigrants: Just giving these 12 million potential new citizens free health care alone could overwhelm the system and bankrupt America, but it adds 12 million reliable new Democrat voters who can be counted on to support big government. Add another few trillion dollars in welfare, aid to dependent children, food stamps, free medical, education, tax credits for the poor, and eventually Social Security.
Stimulus and bailouts: Where did all that money go? It went to Democrat contributors, organizations (ACORN), and unions including billions of dollars to save or create jobs of government employees across the country. It went to save GM and Chrysler so that their employees could keep paying union dues. It went to AIG so that Goldman Sachs could be bailed out (after giving Obama almost $1 million in contributions). A staggering $125 billion went to teachers (thereby protecting their union dues).
Reagan wanted to dramatically cut taxes in order to starve the government; Barack Obama wants to dramatically raise taxes to starve his political opposition. With the acts outlined above, Barack Hussien Obama and his regime have created a vast and rapidly expanding constituency of voters dependent on big government; a vast privileged class of public employees who work for big government; and a government dedicated to destroying capitalism and installing themselves as socialist rulers by overwhelming the system.
Add it up and you've got the perfect Marxist scheme -- all devised by my Columbia University college classmate Barack Hussien Obama using the Cloward and Piven Plan .
New poll: 43% of black voters said they definitely wouldn't vote for the Obamarama next time around.
Unless he's going to pull a rabbit out of a hat, this prez is toast.
Adios. Black, white, purple, or polka-dot, he sucks.
I hope voters rememer O's first order of business was to get f*cked up, costly health care legislation passed.
He promised reforms on Wall Street, but didn't follow through.
In fact, many of those responsible for the Wall Street debacle are on the White house staff--Larry Sommers, Tim Geithner, Ben Bernanke--and we're headed for a second financial Armageddon with the European economies faltering.
I'll be working until I'm 62--no more hope of retiring at 55 anymore, and I only had 3 years to go until then!
The Tea Party is the greatest thing that's happened to this country in quite a while. Ordinary people have decided that enough is enough.
They voted a pack of idiots out last election, and they'll do it again in 2012.
God Bless America!
tick tock tick tock............
It's a good analogy, but it needs to be broken down further. What did we spend the money on? Medicine for the kids? Helping the aged parents? Those make sense. Actually, we gave big chunks of money to the neighbor down the block who hates our guts and always will (feel free to insert your own country). We also have to pay for the Abrams tank that the alderman bought because he got a kickback from the salesman and the maintenance on that baby is a bitch. Feel free to add your own examples, I'm out of coffee and bile.
All this coming from a Media that is in the bag with this Administration. Think about how bad things really are.
The only good thing that may happen is sheeple will finally wake up and turn us the other way. Any fool can see that spending more than you bring in is absolutely unsustainable.
This is the clearest explanantion of our debt problem I have ever seen. Need more examples like this on other issues too. Notice how Rahm wants to shift focus to the pensions of EVERYBODY instead of addressing the excessive abuses of the anointed first? Three Cook County Commissioners (Beavers, Simms and Collins)refusing to take their unpaid days like the rest of us. It is wonderful being a pol.
So I can't buy a Porche, hunnie?
and that double -dip recession Obama's people said wasn't on the horizon? It passed us a few weeks ago.
"Passed us"? Shiiiittttt... Its just starting.
Rosetta stone Chinese is on my Christmas list- may as well learn the language before we are conquered
It will be noticed when major league sports and movie stars don't get the big deals like they do now. Then it will hit home. When movie theaters and ball parks are empty then it will hit the news. You can already see it in baseball and basketball. Hockey and football are next. The chicago teams are doing good for attendance but look at the rest of the leagues.
The national debt in hundred dollar bills.
http://usdebt.kleptocracy.us/
and michelle has forty assistants, making six figures. what exactly do they do for her highness. this country has really let her down. walking around with diamonds onher wrist, worth forty grand. if theres any justice, her next spot should be on the corner of 48 and prairie.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Start cutting the budget by deporting one million illegal aliens.
That is a one followed by six zeros.
If that does not seem to work, then deport another one million illegal aliens.
You will probably see positive results in our economy such as gas prices, drops in the crime rate jobless rate and poverty rate by the time you deport ten million illegal aliens.
That is a one followed by seven zeros.
9/23/2011 01:02:00 AM
Study in California stated that if they deported all the illegals the state would have a 10 Billion surplus instead of a 75 BILLION deficit! Close the borders,round em up send them back home now! Another bad experiment just like our president,we need change and now!
pension fund will be belly up- prepare for it.
soonest - 2018
latest - 2022
old retired guy
EXcellent analagy that the public can wrap it's fingers around. Once again SCC posts cutting edge info.
Shovel-Ready jobs are already being
created each and every day at various dog pounds and animal shelters around the country.
I've said this before and I'll continue to preach this to everyone until this prick is out of the Oval.
If you voted for Obama in '08 to prove to yourself and others weren't a racist, please vote for his opponent in '12 to prove to yourself and others that you aren't an idiot.
"Watch for the "unexpected drops" in various categories to be announced quietly on Friday afternoons in the coming months." -- SCC
No one could possibly watch the bizarre spectacle of each day's closing of the New York Stock Exchange -- the bell frantically ringing, the balcony full of weird people applauding each day's losses, waving fraternity paddles and stuff, without concluding --
A. The United States is collectively insane.
B. Someone's making a pile of money and having one hell of a good time off all this.
"You will probably see positive results in our economy such as gas prices, drops in the crime rate jobless rate and poverty rate by the time you deport ten million illegal aliens."
--9/23/2011 01:02:00 AM
Probably?
Let's find out! Here's a no-brainer.
ICE, go set up at the entrances to every scrap yard in town and see what you pull in.
No license, no insurance, no city sticker, one headlight hanging from a wire, wadded-up paper for a gas cap...
...working for cash and sending money out of the country -- "Envio Dineros A Mexico," as the signs everywhere say -- while politely sucking any and all available social services and programs dry...
...and don't belong here in the first place...
This "Sanctuary City" s__t has got to stop.
No cooperation with federal laws, no federal funding.
Simple as that.
"Legalize 12 million illegal Mexican immigrants: Just giving these 12 million potential new citizens free health care alone could overwhelm the system and bankrupt America, but it adds 12 million reliable new Democrat voters who can be counted on to support big government."
--9/23/2011 04:51:00 AM
I read that Chicago is bucking the national trend of "self-deportation," the simple, 50,000-year-old reality of people leaving a place when the work there dries up. Immigration here is continuing steadily, despite the economy.
You would not believe the film I saw on television -- the freight trains coming up into Mexico from Central America are literally covered with hundreds of people, clinging to the roofs and ladders.
They are headed here, of course.
They try to shout "Low bridge!" warnings to each other, but cannot make themselves heard above the roar of the train, and some are swept off and killed. Gangs of thugs roam the trains, robbing and raping the travelers.
The "Sanctuary City" -- based upon opposition to the law of the land -- is working, the artificial blandishment of free everything is drawing them in.
I know of one low-income medical clinic -- decorated in the first place like a Hispanic birthing center, exclusively Latino mother-and-child art on the walls -- that has had to TRIPLE the fees it charges the poor and move into much larger quarters "because we're getting so many walk-ins" -- sick people from God knows where who just wander in and stand there pointing to themselves.
I noticed that the big "FREE PREGNANCY TESTING --PRUEBO DE EMBARAZO GRATIS" signs in the windows have been taken down, though. They won't admit it, but I think even they are getting scared by what they have wrought.
"Build it, and they will come."
And come.
And come.
It is a tidal wave.
We are drowning.
"Welcome to the Great Depression Two Point Oh."
--9/23/2011 04:45:00 AM
The CEO of Coca-Cola just said this.
"We're at a race to the bottom via this free trade crap that we are not supposed to stand in the way of, but which is eliminating the middle class."
No politician will use the word "poor." It's just "the rich" and "the middle class."
"Oh yeah we created this job and that shovel ready job. They're temporary part-time min-wage WalMart-like non living wage jobs...and if you think that they are going to generate the tax revenue to pull the country, the State, and the City out of the mess that they're in and to fund your public pensions you're sadly mistaken."
It's the New Deal, the WPA all over again -- Roosevelt/Obama calling for massive public works projects.
Oh -- the principals of the "green" Obama-supported solar cell company that was going to help save us all -- the ones who soaked up $500 million in tax money and then went bankrupt -- are suddenly not answering any questions, on advice of their attorneys.
Smart.
You gotta love 'em.
Wasn't anybody listening during O'zeros last campaign?
" Redistribute wealth " ( taking money from those that earned it and give it to those that don't ), " fundamental change " ( from a working capitalist state to a gimme socialist state ) , " tax the rich " ( of whom the top 1% already pay 36% as opposed to the 40% who pay NONE ), " fair share ", ( again, 40% who pay nothing ), " billionaires & millionaire's " ( who invests & creates jobs? Pookie on the corner or the above? ) " comes a time when you have more money than you need " ( gee, working full time & side jobs when I can, I still am short a little at the end of the month ).
All Marxist beliefs, and I speak from experience as I was a commie believer in college ( late 60's, early 70's) the bills started coming in and Moscow wasn't paying its " fair share ".
America asked for it, and now you got it, enjoy.
"The Tea Party is the greatest thing that's happened to this country in quite a while."
--9/23/2011 06:35:00 AM
Actually, it's just that the Republican Party has moved so far to the left that safe, standard just-so-far-and-no-farther "conservatism" now looks like something radical and new by comparison.
"...and Michelle has forty assistants, making six figures. What exactly do they do for her highness? This country has really let her down. Walking around with diamonds on her wrist, worth forty grand. If there's any justice, her next spot should be on the corner of 48th and Prairie."
--9/23/2011 10:19:00 AM
...wearing the custom handmade shoes with the initials "MO" on the toes, made as a gift for her by the same Italian shoemaker who makes the Pope's red shoes...
No kidding.
Uh, what exactly does Her Highness do for us?
Is Obama's Mom still living there, helping things along? You never hear one single word. Taboo.
Which relative was it who's being deported now? I can't keep it all straight anymore.
I heard something about David Axelrod the other day -- it can only mean "here comes the re-election bid."
The Tea Party....everyone seems to so afraid of this party. Why? I believe they know what will happen if we don't get our house in order. Everyone is talking about 2012, that the world will end and all is lost. Well, it may well be that way. When 2012 comes around, the monetary system of this country will be in the toilet. Why? Because we all let the morons in D.C. run our business. Until we have a true leader in this country, one who will take the bull by the horns and say this is the right way, follow me! The morons in D.C. needs to reform all tax systems. Create a new fair tax system, where all pay the same rate and EVERYONE pays! Poor, middle and upper class. This way everyone has skin in the game. Capitalism will always work because its based on self support, rather than socialism. Socialism has never worked. If those who believe it will or can....better start looking towards Russia and China. We as the people of this country don't get our act together, we'll be handing our paychecks to the government to divvy up amongst those who decided they don't have to work, because everything is given to them!! Remember when your basement flooded and all the sewerage came up to the ceiling......did you raise the ceiling or did you pump the shit out? Your choice, now.
"New poll: 43% of black voters said they definitely wouldn't vote for the Obamarama next time around.
"Adios. Black, white, purple, or polka-dot, he sucks."
--9/23/2011 05:24:00 AM
He's the one who described himself as a "mutt."
"I am an empty vessel into which America pours its hopes and dreams and aspirations."
"Empty" is right.
I can't imagine what the people who were out there throwing chunks of concrete at squad cars when he was elected make of all this.
I never even saw him as black. He's just a weird rich guy with lots of outright criminal connections.
Remember how Tiger Woods disappeared completely from the public eye during Obama's campaign? Really remarkable. Wasn't room for two similar-looking weird rich guys having scandals on the stage at the same time.
Isn't it funny how much sense the Tea Party is making now!! If the US stops sending financial aid to countries for 1 year the deficit would be substantially reduced without cutting any domestic programs. Don't even get me started on Illinois politics. This is the worst state to live in. If we didnt have to live in the city I would move to Indiana and work in 004!
Just Sayin....
"It will be noticed when major league sports and movie stars don't get the big deals like they do now. Then it will hit home. When movie theaters and ball parks are empty then it will hit the news..."
--9/23/2011 09:54:00 AM
...or not. In an economy shorn of production, everything depends on the "disposable income" -- i.e., money thrown away -- by the shrinking "middle class." Drop $100 for a beer and a hot dog...
I don't know how much longer the new Mexican lateral replacements for the American middle class are going to be able to continue to enjoy El Good Life they way they know it. All these big new SUVs, all these brick houses, all these big parties -- all these children -- are hanging on A. credito facil, easy credit, B. government programs, and C. 10 people doing service-type jobs replacing one person in skilled manufacturing.
If I were in their shoes, I would be really scared to blow so much money on iphones and ipods and video games -- thousands of dollars worth of xbox stuff -- and satellite TVs and huge car stereos and rims and just junk. You see it being bought up at the Target, everything new for "back to school," $30.00 for each kid's backpack, then you see it all again, backing up onto the lawn at the garage sale the next week, tons and tons of it.
Who you think you is? This ain't real. This can't last. Look out. It's all built on sand, people.
"[Obama's executing] the perfect Marxist scheme -- using the Cloward and Piven Plan."
--9/23/2011 04:51:00 AM
You can still see it all in the frightening face of Hillary Clinton as she trots the globe in our name...
I love that TV commercial, selling insurance on "the American Dream."
"Put on your work boots, fire up the laptop, and pour yourself some coffee. There's gonna be some long nights."
Huh?
If you did all that like they say, you'd hurt yourself so bad you'd always be twisted up like a pretzel.
No thanks.
Man, they are gettin' desperate.
OT--
TV news now, reporting how much MRSA and other crap is being carried by those "privacy curtains" in hospitals that are seldom washed and always handled.
It's not just the curtains. Emergency rooms are carpeted and upholstered now -- and people come in off the street coughing and bleeding God knows what all over it. You sure can't chase around with Lysol and a mop anymore.
That is not your living room in there.
Idiots.
It's OK -- in the 1840s, the Austrian doctor Semmelweis who discovered that hand-washing saves lives was mocked and scorned and thrown out of the place for his trouble. They used to go straight from autopsy to the delivery room, blood all over their hands, and couldn't figure out why so many women died. No better than animals -- and with a big attitude, too.
It still hasn't sunk in 150 years later. I see "public service announcements" saying "Be 'pro-active' in your health care -- YOU are responsible for telling the doctor to wash his hands."
Idiots.
O'zero (I love it!) said --
" tax the rich " ( of whom the top 1% already pay 36% as opposed to the 40% who pay NONE ), " fair share ",
--9/23/2011 03:58:00 PM
Every politician makes hay and encourages divisive class warfare and envy by shouting "TAX THE RICH!"
It is true that the rich get away with murder -- but NO politician will say --
"STOP TAXING THE POOR."
Eliminate the income tax on people making less than $20,000 per year.
They can't live anymore.
I think their total contribution is only about 2% of the take anyway -- which could easily be offset by deportation of illegals, free birth control coupled with no additional money for additional children, etc.
Duh.
You heard it here first...
pension fund will be belly up- prepare for it.
old retired guy
9/23/2011 10:41:00 AM
I'll bet I get my money before one mutt gets they's link card to work.
But one damn thing is certain... those assholes don’t slow down their spending, they vote themselves hefty raises that are way out of line with 99% of Americans. There health care coverage is exempt from the bullshit they want the rest of us to have..... plus it's corruption at it's best, a catch me if you can attitude....
So is it time for an attitude adjustment?
I'll bring the torches, you bring the pitchforks, we'll meet in the middle.
just print more money, jeez
this just in ...
--clip--
'We Won't Pay'
Greece's Middle Class Revolt against Austerity
[...]
Working 12-Hour Days, Seven Days a Week
This business owners' absolute refusal to pay any taxes resembles an uprising of the ownership class, rather than the working class, a rebellion of the self-employed business owners who have long been the backbone of Greek society. These are not the people who weaseled their way into Greece's oversized civil service; these are people who put their money in the private sector, working 12-hour days, seven days a week. Or so Belitsakos says.
Standing in his small store, Belitsakos makes a sweeping gesture and says that the people in his movement no longer have a choice. "The state will kill us," he says. "We're acting in self-defense." Then he starts to do the math. Over the last two years, his sales have massively shrunk as 60 of the tavernas and restaurants he used to make deliveries to have terminated their contracts with him. At the same time, the government has raised the value-added tax (VAT) twice while imposing a never-ending series of new fees. He mentions the €300 ($406) one-time fee for the self-employed, a two-percentage-point boost in the VAT, a €180 solidarity levy for the unemployed and a property tax that is "easily a few hundred euros every year."
more >> http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,787847,00.html
heh..and France...
"If there is one field in which one must deplore that imagination took power without ever wanting to assume the responsibilities, it is finance: the citizens of the communities concerned will have to pay for twenty years for the nutty creativity of banking sector hotshots. Yet we know what comes next: more taxes, less spending and a freeze on future investment," the paper concludes."
more >> http://www.presseurop.eu/en/content/news-brief-cover/972131-banks-lend-communities-pay
I'll be working until I'm 62--no more hope of retiring at 55 anymore, and I only had 3 years to go until then!
9/23/2011 06:05:00 AM
Lucky for you, I have no hope of retiring at age 70.
Plus, you may need to worry about your pension, when Illinois finally runs out of money your pension will be slashed by at least half, probably more.
john said...
pension fund will be belly up- prepare for it.
soonest - 2018
latest - 2022
old retired guy
9/23/2011 10:41:00 AM
ill be good my plan is to let the life savings ride on the patriots this sunday they are a covering machine! but on a serious note why dont we just tax the shit out of these businesses that send jobs over seas?
What can anyone expect when we have a president with a fake birth certificate, fake educational credentials, fraudulent Social security Number, numerous nefarious political and social connections, who's a narcissist, arrogant, habitual liar, incompetent, fraud-involved, dishonest, America-Hating Muslim radical, racist, Con-Man from the ultra-corrupt City of Chicago.
but on a serious note why dont we just tax the shit out of these businesses that send jobs over seas?
9/24/2011 05:54:00 AM
where do you think much of the profit on investments is coming from?
Start cutting the budget by deporting one million illegal aliens.
That is a one followed by six zeros.
If that does not seem to work, then deport another one million illegal aliens.
You will probably see positive results in our economy such as gas prices, drops in the crime rate jobless rate and poverty rate by the time you deport ten million illegal aliens.
That is a one followed by seven zeros.
*Yeah but then strawberries will cost 100bucks a pound!
You know I feel the pain like everybody else, but let me tell you fuck the Democrats and the Republicans. Honestly, if you believe that Republicans are not going to fuck us all just like the Democrats do, YOUR AN IDIOT! They are all politicians they only care about money and votes! You want change? Then don't vote for any of them!
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Start cutting the budget by deporting one million illegal aliens.
That is a one followed by six zeros.
If that does not seem to work, then deport another one million illegal aliens.
You will probably see positive results in our economy such as gas prices, drops in the crime rate jobless rate and poverty rate by the time you deport ten million illegal aliens.
That is a one followed by seven zeros.
9/23/2011 01:02:00 AM
Study in California stated that if they deported all the illegals the state would have a 10 Billion surplus instead of a 75 BILLION deficit! Close the borders,round em up send them back home now! Another bad experiment just like our president,we need change and now!
*LMAO which study was that? Let me clue you in on some basics. First no one Democrate or Republican is going to do shit about imagration! Oh they say they wll, cause they need you to vote for them, but the truth is they wont. Why you ask? America needs a large and cheap work force! Why do you think fruits and vegetables cost what they do? Because we pay some guy a couple dollars to sweat his ass off! What would payrole look like on Americas farms if we had to pay American workers competitive salaries? Not to mention a real health care plan and benefits! What would your grocery bill look like? Hell what would the price of cotton be? How much would a t-shirt cost? And then the real question: How many Americans are linning up to work a farm? Are you fucking kidding me that shit sucks! Politicians on both sides no this, and that is why nothing will ever be done about imagration.
It is alot easier to say we need to do something about imagration, than actually do something. Politicians say this and that about imagration and you still vote for them. But if they actually did deport all of them and your household bills go up, how is a politician going to explain that! They cant so they wont, they rather take the money from your taxes which you pay anyway then take it from your bills where you will actually notice and care more about!
Yeah here is comes alright...
Home-buying season the worst in at least 50 years
Combined sales of new and re-sold homes worst in half a century as economy weighs down marke
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The home-buying season was a bust.
March through August are typically the peak buying months. But this time, Americans bought fewer new homes in that stretch than in any other six-month period since record-keeping began a half-century ago.
And sales of previously occupied homes didn't fare much better. They nearly matched 2009's total for the peak buying months. And that was the worst since 1997.
Combined, total sales this spring and summer were the weakest on records dating to 1963. The figures underscore how badly the housing market is faring and suggest that a recovery is years away.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Homebuying-season-the-worst-apf-308078857.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=6&asset=&ccode=
You want change? Then don't vote for any of them!
9/24/2011 09:45:00 PM
then whom do you suggest we vote for?
or haven't you thought this through that far yet?
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