Helicopter Unit Toast?
According to a number of comments, the Helicopter Unit has fallen to the budget ax:
- chicago and cook county have been sharing the helicopters in an agreement to split the bill. Now, cpd is pulling out 01 jan 2012 due to the high cost of maintenance and fuel to keep the helicopter up. Interesting to see if the county will keep it now. what a joke this city is... every major city in this country has helicopters but the incompetents in chicago cant keep them. this city is a joke. by the way, this hasn't been made public yet but will next month when the budget comes out... we at the county here already got the call that its happening so we can figure out what to do with them now.
We remember a comment a while back that said for every hour in the air, the helicopter needed something like 4 or more hours of maintenance? Is that possible? Even in the military, does that sound plausible? We knew choppers were somewhat economically inefficient, but the benefits for a military operation as opposed to urban patrol would be justified from a national defense viewpoint. Having a Chicago Police helicopter just because it's "cool" doesn't seem to justify it's existence when Rahm and Mc(insert name here) are looking to cut $190 million or more from the budget.
Labels: from the comments
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
157 Comments:
That unit has been mis-managed from the very beginning. The world's greatest asshole Harry Hohm made more enemies than Hitler. The unit is desperately short of pilots and yet there are plenty pilots employed by the CPD. The helicopter is used to cover school crossings on the southside every day....for what??
Either use it properly or get rid of it. Since the choppers were acquired, they have not been used properly. They are managed by people who know absolutely nothing about aviation. The people in the unit have no say whatsoever about their missions. The decision makers are clueless and send the helicopters to fly around with no real purpose other than to be able to say at a meeting that the helicopter was there.
I'm in favor of having helicopters, but if the CPD is not going to use them properly and provide the unit with sufficient manpower to operate properly, then maybe they should get rid of them.
that would be confirmed.
Maybe the Board of ED should reimburse the use of the chopper considering that every day its used for school dismissals at Julian, Fenger and Corliss High Schools. Also, what happen to the $675,000 grant that the CPD got for jet fuel from the federal gov. as long as the chopper is used for narco investigations(HAHAH)
People got the phone call yesterday (9/21) for Final P.O.W.E.R. for the city. The test is to be on 09/28. So, does this mean the city is actually hiring, or what actually is going on?
I'd love to know how much money was spent over the years on the numerous people who went to the helicopter unit and subsequently left because they were treated like shit the entire time they were there.
The unit only has a strength of 2 Sergeants and maybe 4 pilots. However, at least 2 Sergeants and another 4 pilots left the unit because of the way they were being treated. When a pilot decides he would rather drive a beat car than fly a helicopter....there is something seriously wrong with that place. Even some of the county guys left and went back to their own department.
The Columbus (Ohio) police helicopter unit has 5 helicopters. Weather permitting, they keep one up all hours except from 2am to 6am unless there is a situation that arises. They too have been the talk of budget cuts of late. I recall one pilot stating that the main rotor blades are replaced every 5000 hours of use. Just as we go to 51st and Wentworth to pick up a car, Col. helicopter unit flies a two man chopper on a three day trip to AZ. where they drop off a chopper which is scheduled for routine maintance and pickup one thats been recently repaired... And we can't afford one maybe two choppers?
It doesn't work in a congested area like shitcago. Let the state put one up again.
Honestly what has the copter contributed since its been up? Not much. Its not like LA where they can chase vehicles for anything. Majority of the time its not even up anyway.
Heard on WBBM-TV news tonight that several suburbs owe the city $15 million in water fees: Maywood, Robbins, Harvey and a couple of others.
Send Rahm over there to strong-arm them into paying, otherwise, good luck collecting!
"We remember a comment a while back that said for every hour in the air, the helicopter needed something like 4 or more hours of maintenance? Is that possible? Even in the military, does that sound plausible? "
---
Doesn't sound realistic. Sounds low to me. I heard figures in the military of a 10-1 ratio, 10 hours of maintenance to one hour of flight time. but for civilian police, 4 -1 sounds like a minimum. Those things are very labor intensive.
Its true that for every one hour of flight time, you ideally should have 4+ man hours of maintenance time budgeted for servicing a helicopter, if its a new helicopter, you could do these segments further out, but if memory serves me correctly, Chicago's helicopter is a refurbished Viet Nam era bird and would need more time spent keeping it flying.
The one thing you must keep in mind about helicopters is that its 5000+ parts flying in formation and trying to rip itself apart in flight.
Look at: http://www.policehelicopterpilot.com/
and see all the smaller police departments that have helicopters and are using them, sadly by the sounds of it Chicago won't be one of those cities, and like the closing of Meigs Field, the almost criminal shortage of police officers, and that Illinois is the only state without some form of concealed carry, Chicago becomes that much more dangerous to live and work in.
I'm waiting for Rahm to come up with the idea of simply doing away with the police department and privatizing us with rent a cops. This really is getting ridiculous.
All the while the alderman continue to vote themselves yearly 6% raises. Public opinion and wishes would like to see the number of alderman reduced yet Rahm never seriously considers this.
The city of Chicago should be ashamed of themselves. The police helicopter used as a patrol support ship is the best tool out there. One helicopter is equal to 30 patrol cars. I left Chicago in 1986 and have been a copper here in Los Angeles since then. For Christ sale, the city of Pasadena, California has (7) helicopters, they fly 7 days a week in a patrol function. They do not sit on the ground and wait for a call to come. You guys need a real 24/7 aviation program.
That copter is down majority of the time anyway, why bother just another waste of money!
I bet you GPS and in-car cameras never get the old budget axe. They'll always have money for that shit which probably doubles the price of each squad car. If those two want to save money they can quit purchasing that crap and let us do our jobs.
The CPD definitely NEEDS a helicopter unit! The copter has not only assisted in the capture of fleeing offenders from hot cars, crime scenes, etc., it has also assisted suburban PDs who will NEVER have one at their disposal either. It is essential in today's urban policing, period.
The copters can track people they can't even see due to their heat signatures; this includes fleeing vehicles that we all know we can't even pursue in our squads. The CPD has needed a helicopter unit for decades, and I for one really hope that Rahm and McNutty fully consider the implications of mothballing this unit.
The CFD copter unit should be cut before CPD. Rahnm should use his connections to replace CFD with Coast Guard. CFD flies more expensive aircraft. CFD pilots won't launch in cloudy or bad weather. Coast Guard pilots and rescue copters paid by federal government and will launch in all kinds of weather to save you and your family.
No air support for G8 or NATO ?
Sounds like Daley's "plan" to eliminate the marine unit years back. Coast Guard fight ensued, blah.
I went through every posting at Rahm's website relating to the budget and found nothing said about police or fire helicopters. Nothing was said about the Marine Unit either.
www.chicagobudget.org
Public safety
it was an asshole's toy, nothing more.
It seems a shame that a major city with the second largest police department won't have a helicopter. The capabilities those things have on board could really help in certain situations.
I've jumped out of my share of them in the military. They're not just cool to have around. They serve a purpose in law enforcement. It's just hard to drag Chicago out of the stone age. They would rather waste millions on cameras that do nothing than give officers an edge with air support.
Is the work and value worth it? It depends on how you use the asset. Like the military, public safety is not a money-making venture.
Helicopters provide a means to reach areas quickly and provide a platform for direct supervision and search of a limited area. Sometimes that can be what is most needed, and Infrared/Night vision assets can look where darkness has hidden things. Helicopters don't arrest or detain, just help.
They do require that level of maintenance. It is often as a result of the checklists you go through, one or two things will need to be checked or fixed, even if they don't directly affect flightworthiness. It is better to be safely on the ground wishing you were in the air than in the air wishing you were safely on the ground. Perversely enough the more you fly, the less items go bad.
We DO need the helicopters. Chicago is a major city. Plus G8 is coming.
Gee! They look so cool on the "Worlds Wildest Chases" on TruTV...
1. 4 hours of maintenance for each hour of flight time is a fairly efficient maintenance cycle for a helicopter.
2. Helos are hellishly expensive to operate.
3. Are your birds useful enough to justify that expense?
4. Just asking.
V/R JWest
just use the fire depts,they don't use it that much.
What a joke and we are supposed to be in a post 9/11 world! We should have several helicopters up in the air at all times- 24 hours a day and 7 days a week.
Then if God forbid we experience another terrorist attack guess who will be blamed? Guess who won't receive any blame?
horses next Sorry ccanr afford the extra pay and the parade duty sure there is some crowd control but we could hite more cops with the money saved
intel has a commander and only twenty Pos. Why? Shouldn't it be an Lt or in with another unit
NATO G8 IS Coming
The Helicopter was never used for it's intended purpose. Just a toy for the clouted.
watch for a specialized unit of narc intel B&A and Asset Fort and Terror to be created and headed by a NYC guy
More Gold Stars to fall
At least 4 hours. Even tanks in the army require 4 hours for every 1 hour operation.
Have 2 here in Scottsdale , Arizona. Population of 217,000. The city is fairly legit. One person garbage trucks that are being converted to diesel-hybrid. I could go on and on.
old retired guy
This department is a joke.
I don't know what type of helo CPD uses. The flight hour costs for light helos can run between $400 and $$1,000 per hour. The maintainence to flight hour ratio can be 2.7 to 4.3 hours per hour of flight.
Too bad. Aerial support is a critical component for superior force. The City politicians are willing to sacrifice this just so they can keep stealing, or they aren't competent enough to manage a budget. You decide.
In any case, this is just one more glaring example that these criminals need to go. All of them.
There is a story picking up steam in the national media that Rahm was asked to leave the White House. Looks like he may be the dunce holding the bag on the solar panel loan debacle. You can't believe the anointed one will take that hit.
Looks like they are positioning Hillary to make a move in case Obama looks unelectable. If that is the case, they will ruin Rahm in the process. Obama does not look electable.
I was always told 7hrs maintainance per 1 hr flight. This was for fixed wing combat jets.
good riddance.......useless.....useless....useless!
Apaches need 24 hours of maintenance for every flight hour so a 4 to 1 ratio is very plausible.
Don't forget , other cities do not have 3 union workers changing light bulbs and drivers that sleep in truck while tradesman work.
Rumor has it McLovin tried to take one of his lady friends for a ride in the helicopter after tipping a few and was told they were unavailable. Went nuts and now has a hard on for the unit. We really don't need them anyways.
So with NATO/G8 taking place in May 2012, CPD will no longer have a chopper to shine the light down on the demonstrators - taking away a valuable tactical tool.
Then, when the next Puerto Rican Festival hits Humboldt Park, a month later, one of the best tools used by CPD for gang and crowd control during the last two years will have been removed and the gang bangers can just complete what the demonstrators at the NATO/G8 Summit were unable to completely take apart.
Fewer police officers; fewer police districts; no chopper; more beautification in the centers of the streets; redecorated CTA stations; higher property taxes; and Rahm Emmanuel systematically busting the unions . . .
. . .with apologies in advance to Barry McGuire:
"The Midwest World, it is explodin,
Violence flaring, bullets loadin;
You pay your property taxes, expecting service,
But the City's corrupted, there is no service;
. . . We're on the Eve of Destruction!"
Please feel free to add additional verses - as appropriate, and we can have this recorded and distributed in plenty of time for the NATO/G8 - maybe even distribute advance copies to all of those attending.
The mass media is never truly honest about how corrupt and insane the national budget is, and the complete incompetence of President Obama, and the vast majority of Congress, when it comes to spending money.
The near-hopelessness of the situation was told in a documentary called "I Owe USA" in 2006, available on DVD. It was a wake-up call to Congress, but Congress ignored it and kept on going trillions-more into debt. It is now too late. We are at a point of "no return." Even if Congress slashed spending by 50%, which would never happen, our national economy is going to implode anyway, over the next few years, due to that 15-trillion-dollar-plus debt, and the unfunded entitlements that are supposed to be paid out to baby boomers (about 10,000 retiring every day), from a workforce that is constantly shrinking, and working for minimum wage, if they are lucky to get even that.
If your readers would like HONEST information about the national budget, and what we can do as individuals to protect ourselves and our families, check out:
http://inflation.us
The air unit maintenance people would tell you that 3 or 4:1 (or heck, 8:1) is desirable, but obviously they can be safely operated with less maintenance than that. Also depends a little on the age of the aircraft.
Those numbers are also long-term hours. A heavy maintenance or teardown/overhaul might take a particular unit out of service for days, which would require a replacement.
It would be kinda' difficult for the county to keep it up, considering the pilots are all CPD...that's the way harry da hat set it up don't ya know....but dat didn't prevent him from gettin' fired himself....fuckin dickhead dat he is!!!
helicopters are insanely expensive to operate.
and the benefits of helicopters to urban police, other than as a cool toy, are pretty dubious most of the time.
most of the benefits can be gotten elsewhere at much less cost.
about the only thing that you can't get elsewhere is the ability to land on top of a building, and the need for that is just about nil.
if one is looking to save some money, it is a good place to at least take a close look.
For an aircraft that was entirely funded by the feds and a freebee to aquire and upgrade in the first place maybe they can take it back and sell it to the afghani police who will actually use it
But we got millions for boat houses and nature preserves !!!!
The Helicopter Pilot's salary is $76,000.00.
The cost of helicopter maintenance in 2008 was $200,000 and $213,000 in 2009.
It's all part of the budget and public record.
More like . 65 As in decimal point 65 or 65/100 hour maintenance hours for every flight hour (less than one)
Gee, I wonder if Rhams going to be mad at the Dept of Aviation person who ignored a CPD Officers suggestion to get federal money for a heliport and helicoper purchase/training/maintenance.
I wonder who she is???
MORE LOST DOLLARS, but that person is still making huge money and unlimited expenses while other city agencies are recycling toilet paper
Rack 'em up; rack 'em up; rack 'em up
True enough, Harry Holm made a lot of people angrier than shit when he ran the place, but he's been gone for a while now. I think the Dept. should keep the copters,
and make it the unit it deserves to be, with adequate personnel.
Anonymous said...
That unit has been mis-managed from the very beginning. The world's greatest asshole Harry Hohm made more enemies than Hitler. The unit is desperately short of pilots and yet there are plenty pilots employed by the CPD. The helicopter is used to cover school crossings on the southside every day....for what??
Either use it properly or get rid of it. Since the choppers were acquired, they have not been used properly. They are managed by people who know absolutely nothing about aviation. The people in the unit have no say whatsoever about their missions. The decision makers are clueless and send the helicopters to fly around with no real purpose other than to be able to say at a meeting that the helicopter was there.
I'm in favor of having helicopters, but if the CPD is not going to use them properly and provide the unit with sufficient manpower to operate properly, then maybe they should get rid of them.
9/23/2011 12:14:00 AM
The Chicago Police Department has a long standing tradition of turning everything into a royal goat fuck. If someone is installed as a boss and that boss actually knows what he is doing then it is quite by accident.
They pull connected Lt's who cannot swim in to run the Marine Unit, they pull non aviation people in to the Helicopter Unit. What else is new?
And the lowest rung of the ladder, if you fuck up everything else they give you to do but you still have clout, why they put you in charge of officers who desperately need proper leadership and guidance.
Situation normal. Sad to say but the CPD is a great big cluster fuck. Stay safe.
Anonymous said...
We DO need the helicopters. Chicago is a major city. Plus G8 is coming.
9/23/2011 06:49:00 AM
Well, there you go. Glad that is settled.
Good. Hopefully the marine unit is next. Another ice cream and suntan unit that eats a fortune in money and does nothing.
Anonymous Super Mario said...
People got the phone call yesterday (9/21) for Final P.O.W.E.R. for the city. The test is to be on 09/28. So, does this mean the city is actually hiring, or what actually is going on?
9/23/2011 12:25:00 AM
People took the power test for the August class, for the Sept class,and now therefore will it be existent October class? Is this for the CTA group? Rumor really strong CTA special to be gone as soon as academy starts recruits as they will be used for new CTA police force,will mass transit be gone also? CTA is budgeting money for new squad cars as the one's used for special are like our CPD cars all junks! If they start a new cta police force will they be trained for cpd work or coppers who work as security guards for cta?
Anonymous said...
The city of Chicago should be ashamed of themselves. The police helicopter used as a patrol support ship is the best tool out there. One helicopter is equal to 30 patrol cars. I left Chicago in 1986 and have been a copper here in Los Angeles since then. For Christ sale, the city of Pasadena, California has (7) helicopters, they fly 7 days a week in a patrol function. They do not sit on the ground and wait for a call to come. You guys need a real 24/7 aviation program.
9/23/2011 03:27:00 AM
We have a bunch of 24/7 real aviation programs. However they are all at O'Hare and Midway Airport and run by the likes of United and American Airlines.
The only thing the fucks in charge here are good at is stealing and lying.
Super Mario said...
People got the phone call yesterday (9/21) for Final P.O.W.E.R. for the city. The test is to be on 09/28. So, does this mean the city is actually hiring, or what actually is going on?
9/23/2011 12:25:00 AM
If 80 get called, Rahm will declare them new cops on the street each day and then add the numbers up so they are counted again when they hit the street and again when they graduate, Expect the announced number to be at least quadruple the number hired.
They Rahm will count boots on the ground and get an even larger number.
Your all wrong with the way the city is going to shit they are buying 2 new copters to actually do the job we need done!
#1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkPPWIPi29s
#2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBd6ighzqYA
In # 2 look good at the pilot with head gear on sort of looks like rahmbo!!
Anonymous said...
It doesn't work in a congested area like shitcago. Let the state put one up again.
9/23/2011 01:16:00 AM
Right, only works in wide open clear areas like LA County. You sound like a typical head-up-your-ass-CPD supervisor. Do you still have your call box key? How about the white stripe up your pants leg?
Shawn said...
Its true that for every one hour of flight time, you ideally should have 4+ man hours of maintenance time budgeted for servicing a helicopter, if its a new helicopter, you could do these segments further out, but if memory serves me correctly, Chicago's helicopter is a refurbished Viet Nam era bird and would need more time spent keeping it flying.
The one thing you must keep in mind about helicopters is that its 5000+ parts flying in formation and trying to rip itself apart in flight.
Look at: http://www.policehelicopterpilot.com/
and see all the smaller police departments that have helicopters and are using them, sadly by the sounds of it Chicago won't be one of those cities, and like the closing of Meigs Field, the almost criminal shortage of police officers, and that Illinois is the only state without some form of concealed carry, Chicago becomes that much more dangerous to live and work in.
9/23/2011 02:18:00 AM
I am gone in 18 months. I really truly do not care any more.
***********NEWS ALERT****************
Looks like patrick daleys russian friends are not just selling us cab deals, wonder if these will be included as part of the deal? Nice soundtrack also! Bring it on punks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKr_eOk8mNk
Dart will not spend the money to keep it.Thats more cash he could use to Hire more former A.S.A.'s in to the Sheriffs Dept.
If you ask me nicely, I might come back. I'm still the world's biggest asshole, but I have nothing else to live for....Come on on now......bring me back so I can make everybody miserable all over again!!!
The helicopter unit failed in Chicago for the same reason that everything fails in Chicago.
Laziness and stupidity.
These are the two commodities of Chicago. We may have less than everybody else in everything else, but we have more laziness and stupidity than anyone could ever hope to have.
We don't need a chopper. All we need are more crown caps and callboxes!
there was an incident in 001 yesterday near sears(willis) tower where there was an unidentified helicopter flying extremely low. Multiple calls came in and midway and ohare towers had no idea who the chopper was and said they were not in contact with it(apparently they dont have to be in contact with helicopters which is another story in itself). FINALLY about 25 minutes later someone decided to send the CPD helicopter to investigate. Apparently the chopper was from a florida based company and taking photos of the city for some reason. At least in this instance the cpd helicopter was useful, but if terrorists want an easy target god knows this shithole, incompetent city is high on the list. Luckily there was no damage done this time
Anonymous said...
We DO need the helicopters. Chicago is a major city. Plus G8 is coming.
9/23/2011 06:49:00 AM
The FEDS will be in the air for that one.
just use the fire depts,they don't use it that much.
-------------------
maybe combine the two air units.
there is no real reason the pilot or any of the people in the units have to even be cops or firefighters.
if this kind of tool is not being used very effectively, and it never really has, why keep it.
as for helping out suburban departments, that is nuts. the city should not be subsidizing other cities. if another city wants a chopper, they can buy one.
The only reason the unit was started was it was a condition of the failed Olympic bid. Also a full time SWAT team was a condition, send them back to part time like HBTwas run. It was a much more tighter unit and more productive. They didn't need the latest and greatest equipment. They just got the job done without an ego. Where is the Olympic money that was slated?
i think we should get rid of helicopters, police cars, motorcycles, radios, atvs, boats, bikes, pdts, our guns, tasers, ..and go back to good old days of phone boxes. I CAN'T WAIT FOR SHIT TO HIT THE FAN. Let this stupid mayor(from what i hear they did not like him in the white house) and his puppet ruin this city so we can all move out, kind of like detroit. ..then we should ask the army for mother bomb and drop it on this city, level it and start over.
They are useless piles of garbage that have no purpose at least in the chicago police dept. I see them like the space satelite that is crashing down on earth wasted money. They have yet to help us caprure some one worth while. The only time they did help was for a scraper that had stolen some metals.
"Mc(insert name here)" -- SCC
Touche'.
Boy, they are getting generic, aren't they?
As even Alderman Waguespack says, the same people are still running the city -- and they interchange the most peculiar people into and out of these positions like screwing light bulbs in and out of a socket. Presto!
What's Huberman up to these days? Keeping his head down, drawing a big check somewhere...
FOR SURE we'll have something flying over chicago for the G8. But, it won't be ours and it'll be gone the morning after.
Called them out once, they were in the air for five minutes before they told us they had to gas up because the last watch left them on fumes! I shit you not.
Pilot says "can I get an event number" you knew it was doomed.
"The Columbus (Ohio) police helicopter unit has 5 helicopters. Weather permitting, they keep one up all hours except from 2am to 6am unless there is a situation that arises. They too have been the talk of budget cuts of late."
-9/23/2011 12:29:00 AM
I saw a TV special one time on how the Department of Defense started handing out candy after 9/11; "militarization of the police." It showed a DoD web site that was like a giant K-Mart of armament and equipment; police departments could simply click on anything they wanted and it would just arrive -- without subsidies for operation or maintenance, of course.
Still, awful hard to resist. They showed the results -- one rural county had a whole hangar full of helicopters they couldn't resist, but couldn't afford to operate, either. Little towns out there with one stoplight -- and a couple dozen surplus M-16s, M-203s, M-60s and stuff in a flimsy metal wardrobe, waiting to be stolen.
This may be at the root of some of the excess.
"Maybe the Board of Ed should reimburse the use of the chopper considering that every day it's used for school dismissals at Julian, Fenger and Corliss High Schools."
--9/23/2011 12:15:00 AM
A gunship might be of some use. Otherwise...
"I'm in favor of having helicopters, but if the CPD is not going to use them properly and provide the unit with sufficient manpower to operate properly, then maybe they should get rid of them."
--9/23/2011 12:14:00 AM
Yeah, spend the money on "bird sanctuaries," $4 million boathouses, bicycle bridges and "docking stations," and women to paddle around in kayaks with barking dogs to frighten off seagulls.
By the way, the CEO of Coca-Cola Corp., Muhtar Kent, just said that we are in "the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression."
Someone tell 'em down in Springfield, where $150 million worth of bronze, walnut, and Italian marble is going into the state house as we speak.
What was that about "fiddling as Rome burns?"
Denver, CO. Mock terror drill. Why don't they do it here?? Oh right never mind.
http://tinyurl.com/3rr8qn9
video
"Heard on WBBM-TV news tonight that several suburbs owe the city $15 million in water fees: Maywood, Robbins, Harvey and a couple of others."
--9/23/2011 01:33:00 AM
How many unprocessed rape kits did they just find in Harvey PD? I think I heard 200, about 50 of which are too old to do anything with now.
What can you say...
Not-so-miniature version of Somalia. "Failed nation."
Dear God. If Ford Heights had an ocean, it would have pirates too.
They must be useful but it's hard to tell judging from our unit. They seem to be flying around getting event numbers for bullshit. As it stands in Chicago, these things have been a huge waste of $.
Helicopters are a great tool to have for law enforcement, but with their high costs they are probably an easy target for budget cuts and put the pilots at risk whenever they go up. Remember what happened to ISP's Air One chopper (RIP). Instead, I wonder if unmanned drones would be an alternative for an urban crime fighting setting. Have one or two drones equipped with night vision, high definition stabilized video recorders like the ones on the news choppers, and perhaps a Hellfire missile or two ;). Seriously, imagine how many drones could be purchased and maintained for less than the cost of a single chopper and it's maintenance. The video feeds could be sent to computers in the beat cars in whatever area the drones were responding to.
"The city of Chicago should be ashamed of themselves."
--9/23/2011 03:27:00 AM
Too busy stealing. You came from here, you know that.
"You guys need a real 24/7 aviation program."
Once they decide who guards the airports, and whether or not they should carry guns, we'll think about it.
I wonder if they're still tearing down half of Bensenville and digging up St. Johannes Cemetery for Daley's super-runway at O'Hare that even the airlines didn't want...hearing a lot of Obama/Roosevelt-talk about how we need massive WPA-style make-work in the middle of a Depression...saw a magazine article called "The Gentlemen's Bailout -- 75 Years Of The New Deal."
Is it true that Midway is going to be corporate-sponsored by a software company and re-named "Ubuntu?"
I am losin' it here.
another waste of taxpayers dollars. Not cost effective. Better to hire more Cops and get them out on the streets. Since the City claims the Pod Cameras work so good, they should be enough for surveilling the streets.
alot of the LA chases are really being covered by TV news stations helicopters calling the locations of the cars or offenders. All major Chicago TV stations have traffic helicopters in the air early in the morning and during rush hrs, same as LA
Don't worry.... guys, we don't need a helo. With the G8 coming next year, radio shack has a deal on RC helicopters!!! Ole Deb Kirby can stand on top of the building with her hand selected few contolling them. We can duct tape video cameras or cell phone to them. It will be just fine.
I read about the City's budget blog and just checked it out. I recommend everyone take a look and vote on the items posted.
It conttains many of the items of concern that have been posted on this log over the years including meritorious promotions, take home vehicles, exempts, etc.
www.chicagobudget.org
Who cares, it was another peace of crap the dept gave us. Right cooter
"It doesn't work in a congested area like shitcago. Let the state put one up again.
9/23/2011 01:16:00 AM"
Taking that theory into account, there should be Police Chopper crashes everyday in NY & Los Angeles. Must be dummy day on the blog today
Do the helicopter guys get to keep their helmets and wear them in the squads?
Would you rather get rid of the helicopter unit or 100 patrol officers?
That is the kind of decision that has to be made, and it is entirely political in nature.
Re. Helicopter issues..
Rumor has it there will be a new Special Order coming out that says:
All 10-4 units will enlist the passenger officer of said vehicle to use their designated vehicle microphone and PA system on the vehicle emergency equipment.
Then via his or her mouth emit Helicopter sounds as they drive with spotlight on thru side streets.
This will save taxpayers money and provide ample support to the officers in the field!
Proceed!
We need a human cannonball unit. All you need is a CPD leotard, old Evil Knieval helmet, army surplus cannon and a moron and...BLAMMO!!!!!!!!!!!
Both the NYPD and the LAPD have a fleet of police helicopters.
They also have shift differential (NOT "duty availability" bullshit) and semi-legit promotional processes.
But this is CHICAGO...
Helicopters require a lot of maintenance to sustain flyable hours, the actual maintenance hours required to fly one hour varies depending on the type of helicopter.
A turbine helicopter is more labor intensive than a piston driven chopper, so considering that the CPD chopper is a turbine, the 4 hours sounds kind of low, especially considering its age.
I visited the NYPD Aviation HQ at Floyd Bennett Field in Brooklyn. The NYPD has about a dozen choppers.
Your "spread out L.A." theory is wrong.
There are 2 Sergeants and 4 pilots in the helicopetr unit and an equal number who left the unit because they were treated like shit. How much money was wasted training all of these people? How much money was spent buying equipment that doesn't work? How much money was spent buying a helicopter that was in production since the 1960's and ceased production right after CPD bought theirs? (can you say obsolete?)
How much money was spent to allow Harry Hohm fly around for a few years, burning up all the flight time right before he was eventually fired? Why would CPD invest the future aviation dollars on a 63 year old geriatric dickhead?
Scottsdale, Arizona with a population of 217,000 has 2 helicopters. They are used quite often. But Scottsdale is more of a legit city. One person garbage trucks that are actually all going to diesel/hybrid. When the value of the house falls, taxes go down. When you talk to a government agency, they actually help you not acting as if you are bothering them.
old retired guy
We need a human cannonball unit. All you need is a CPD leotard, old Evil Knieval helmet, army surplus cannon and a moron and...BLAMMO!!!!!!!!!!!
I value your Ideas... Put this man in charge!!!!
Why do we need a helo? We don't even have a range longer than 25yrds.
They can ask for and will get federal funding under the Homeland Security Act because they are guarding out water, lakefront and downtown areas along with other duties, the problem with this police department is that they do not have anybody that knows how to write good Grants. There is plenty of money out there, ju8st ask Commander Graeber, they wrote good grants and got money for cops, dogs and cars for guarding the rail system. A long time ago D/S Barbara Mcdonald wrote grants for Hilliard and we were drowning in money. But Wait, we are a different police department now, just look around.
What if Maggie needs a helicopter ?????
Anonymous said...
We need a human cannonball unit. All you need is a CPD leotard, old Evil Knieval helmet, army surplus cannon and a moron and...BLAMMO!!!!!!!!!!!
9/23/2011 04:00:00 PM
Well, we have plenty of morons here; you can tell them easily enough though, they have gold badges and strut around and are followed by strange strutting sycophants clucking "yeah boss, anything you say boss."
I will get the Wagner attack sound track from Apocalypse now when I want to order the helicopter. Especially the part with the "It smells like Victory!" and "Charley don't surf!"
I'm in favor of having helicopters, but if the CPD is not going to use them properly and provide the unit with sufficient manpower to operate properly, then maybe they should get rid of them.
NAme one thing this city/department does properly!
This city and the ego fucks that run it have only one thing in mind. and that is...To pump money into the ellement being the fake reverunds to secure the vote.
Anonymous said...
Would you rather get rid of the helicopter unit or 100 patrol officers?
That is the kind of decision that has to be made, and it is entirely political in nature.
9/23/2011 03:21:00 PM
Take 50 bosses instead.
We have no air force? No submarines? No tanks?
The war is lost!
We have the leading Air Force mechanic on our job.
Too bad clout determines who gets to the unit because the City could have utilized him for less than $80,000 a year.
I hear the that the midget, aka Shortshanks, aka (many others) is coming out with a book....
"How to destroy and bankrupt a major city in just a few years"
Nice legacy
They pull connected Lt's who cannot swim in to run the Marine Unit, they pull non aviation people in to the Helicopter Unit. What else is new?
Wow...does anyone expect a LT. to jump into the water and rescue injured boaters? Or the Chief of Special Functions to arm himself with an M4 and jump into the
stack on a raid? Get real, asshat!
Anonymous said...
The CPD definitely NEEDS a helicopter unit! The copter has not only assisted in the capture of fleeing offenders from hot cars, crime scenes, etc., it has also assisted suburban PDs who will NEVER have one at their disposal either. It is essential in today's urban policing, period.
The copters can track people they can't even see due to their heat signatures; this includes fleeing vehicles that we all know we can't even pursue in our squads. The CPD has needed a helicopter unit for decades, and I for one really hope that Rahm and McNutty fully consider the implications of mothballing this unit.
9/23/2011 04:32:00 AM
OK Boss, now settle down and go play with your mini gyro-copter toy...
guess whats else we dont need in the city 1,000,000 illigals and welfare rats....
I put peanut butter and bird seed on my wee-wee any time I need to fly, why can't the city?
Why don't they cut the fire chopper. It has no use. They don't use the winch. They drop divers into water of which they don't know the depth or the submerged objects, have no idea where their divers are, and have no exit strategy because they don't use their winch.Then they call the marine unit for help. When are we going to get people in charge who know what they're doing?
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=8366337
Hot Pursuit said...
I hear the that the midget, aka Shortshanks, aka (many others) is coming out with a book....
"How to destroy and bankrupt a major city in just a few years"
Nice legacy
9/23/2011 07:50:00 PM
***************************
A childrens version:
"Dick & Maggie's piggy bank is broke(n)"
Anonymous said...
"It doesn't work in a congested area like shitcago. Let the state put one up again.
9/23/2011 01:16:00 AM"
The State helicopter crashed on a training flight in 1998, killing an ISP officer and the pilot, a CPD employee. There is a photo of the pilot and state helo on the wall at FOP to the left of the bar.
The CPD employee was George Kurelic, he worked at Motor Maintenance. That was before Fleet took it over. The ISP, Erin Hehl, was the wife of a CPD copper.
Anonymous said...
Heard on WBBM-TV news tonight that several suburbs owe the city $15 million in water fees: Maywood, Robbins, Harvey and a couple of others.
Send Rahm over there to strong-arm them into paying, otherwise, good luck collecting!
9/23/2011 01:33:00 AM
***************************************
After T.D. 9.5 lays a fuck bomb on them and threatens to burn their houses they'll pay up !
Recognized Vacancies 09/23/11
The Lodge has been advised by Management and Labor Affairs and Human Resources that the Department will not post any Recognized Vacancy openings for Police Officers for the 11th Police Period.
----------------------------------
So much for morale?
A wealth police friend offered the City a lightly used Bell-206B for free. The Shitty said no thanks.
Homeland Sec. money could pay for the maintenance. Nope.
They pull connected Lt's who cannot swim in to run the Marine Unit, they pull non aviation people in to the Helicopter Unit. What else is new?
Wow...does anyone expect a LT. to jump into the water and rescue injured boaters? Or the Chief of Special Functions to arm himself with an M4 and jump into the
stack on a raid? Get real, asshat!
NO THAT WOULD BE ASKING TOO MUCH (bS chicago Clouted way) A LEADER HAS TO BE ABLE TO DO WHAT HE OR SHE ASKES OF THEIR MEN AND WOMEN
we have an intel cmdr that doesnt know shit about his unit ASHAT-SEMPER FI
Wait to the G8 NATO Disaster -Ha Heads will roll and Gold Stars will Fall. The unqualified will show their true colors
Newer helos require much less maintenance per flight hour than the old, mil-surplus turn-out birds that we got.
Search the web and find that the TOC of Bell Jet-Ranger (out of production) is about $325/hr.
What is still expensive is the mandatory service life limits of major components. Tho that has been reduced by longer live components.
Comparing the maintenance requirements of military aircraft, with their complex combat avionics and higher stress flying with civilian flying is silly.
And don't forget that the military does a lot of things in a grand way. Got to keep people busy.
As an aviation enthusiast and former pilot, helos are quite expensive to operate. CPD should hold onto theirs. Or, get into the fixed-wing realm. (airplanes for non-aviation folks) Airplanes are somewhat cheaper compared to rotary wing(helicopters). Only benefit with helos is that they are more manueverable, meaning being able to get into spaces airplanes can't.
"Wow...does anyone expect a LT. to jump into the water and rescue injured boaters? Or the Chief of Special Functions to arm himself with an M4 and jump into the
stack on a raid? Get real, asshat!
9/23/2011 08:01:00 PM"
Ever hear of lead by example? My Infantry Platoon Lt. was equally proficient operating the Mortar as well as pushing a pencil in garrison.
Thats why the CPD is a joke, incompetent Supervisors who couldnt lead themselves out of a wet paper bag.
USMC said...
They are useless piles of garbage that have no purpose at least in the chicago police dept. I see them like the space satelite that is crashing down on earth wasted money. They have yet to help us caprure some one worth while. The only time they did help was for a scraper that had stolen some metals.
9/23/2011 12:08:00 PM
not true that young sexy helicopter unit sergeant captured my heart when he spoke at roll call a few months ago...not sure if im worth while though being just a love struck blue shirt and all..ps where do i sign up for the cannonball unit BLAMMMMO!!!!
The CFD helicopters have covered all police/government agency requests for assistance for years before the CPD helos came to be and will continue to do so after they are gone. The CFD helos will launch in cloudy and inclement weather at the discretion of the pilot who is required to follow Federal Aviation Regulations which dictate weather minimums, get your facts straight. The CFD helos by policy do not "winch" hoist its deployed divers if there is a police/fire boat on the scene who can more safely retrieve the divers, victims and their equipment, which is the case on 99% of the calls. In that other 1% category, the divers or victims would be hoisted. Yes helicopters are expensive to operate but a large city like Chicago does require a helicopter unit be it police or fire. At this time the CFD helos are better equipped to do numerous multi-agency and MABAS functions. More powerful, larger aircraft with two engines for redundancy and safety, searches on water or land during day or night either visually or through the use of the FLIR camera, searchlight, or NVG, rescue divers always onboard ready to deploy for water rescues and the ability to hoist victims if needed, radiation detecting equipment for large scale events, the ability to downlink any images requested to the OEMC or mobile command posts etc...they are an asset like it or not and have saved countless lives over the years. The safety of the taxpaying citizens of Chicago should not be governed by budget shortfalls caused by our fearless leaders, but unfortunately my friends, that's the way of the world today! Stay Safe!
helicopters are insanely expensive to operate.
and the benefits of helicopters to urban police, other than as a cool toy, are pretty dubious most of the time.
most of the benefits can be gotten elsewhere at much less cost.
about the only thing that you can't get elsewhere is the ability to land on top of a building, and the need for that is just about nil.
if one is looking to save some money, it is a good place to at least take a close look.
9/23/2011 09:25:00 AM
You know nothing of air operations or the support that rotary wing aircraft can provide. Oh, and you don't just land on any roof. Read up, since you have no real world experience, before you comment.
The only reason the unit was started was it was a condition of the failed Olympic bid. Also a full time SWAT team was a condition, send them back to part time like HBTwas run. It was a much more tighter unit and more productive. They didn't need the latest and greatest equipment. They just got the job done without an ego. Where is the Olympic money that was slated?
9/23/2011 11:47:00 AM
You are a true idiot. You think you should send men in without the proper equipment and training in situations like they go into? You are a typical moron who should never have been the police. You're probably a merit hack supervisor or soon will be.
Go crawl back under a rock and keep your dumb fuck ideas to yourself.
9/23/2011 04:06:00 PM
Anonymous said...
I visited the NYPD Aviation HQ at Floyd Bennett Field in Brooklyn. The NYPD has about a dozen choppers.
Your "spread out L.A." theory is wrong.
9/23/2011 04:27:00 PM
***********************************
Not so fast on that theory. You should probably have visited more areas of New York when you were there. Brooklyn, The Bronx Queens and especially Staten Island are extremely spread out, much more so than Chicago. In addition, New York is much larger in area than Chicago. They utilize their helos on a daily basis. Los Angeles is spread out even more than New York. Chicago on the other hand has an extremely dense, in more ways than one, population.
I just returned from LA where I was able to see first hand how their aviation wing operated. There are 2 crews on a shift, one flies for 2-1/2 hours and when they land the other goes up. Each crew flies twice a day, covering a 10 hour shift. We flew Saturday morning from 0830 to 1100 and went on at least 15 jobs, ranging from alarm activations, man with a gun, to an agg assault where the crew was able to provide the responding car with an overview of the scene including the location of the offenders vehicle. They also were able to let them know that the offender was walking out of the house, concealed by a 6 foot fence. When the offender opened the gate, both officers were were standing 6 feet away and waiting for him. They even provided air support on a traffic stop. I've never heard or seen our helicopter except when they were lit up with the laser.
Apaches need 24 hours of maintenance for every flight hour so a 4 to 1 ratio is very plausible.
=
Maybe for military attack aircraft. In the civilian world a maintenance/cost schedule like that is unacceptable. If it was true for anything outside the military, they would not even exist because of cost. Remember, anything outside of government requires somewhat legitimacy in terms of cost effectiveness and innovation. However, the border patrol makes good use of inexpensive small single engine fixed aircraft that fly all day on the cheap. Chicago only payed for the fuel in that thing, dont forget it was free to aquire and upgrade
As an aviation enthusiast and former pilot, helos are quite expensive to operate. CPD should hold onto theirs. Or, get into the fixed-wing realm. (airplanes for non-aviation folks) Airplanes are somewhat cheaper compared to rotary wing(helicopters). Only benefit with helos is that they are more manueverable, meaning being able to get into spaces airplanes can't.
yeah, thats a pretty good idea. pick up a few old cessna 172s and outfit them with some modern equipment and you definatly have a cheaper alternative then a chopper. good on gas and simple to maintain... its pretty much the same as a car engine(for the most part) and is pretty reliable plane. the only thing about it is that its harder to remain over a scene and would have to constantly circle over a target... but a good idea
CPD must have a helicopter unit, but one that utilized correctly (no fault to the unit itself). I have our pilots and some of them have literally taken out mortages and other loans to finance their pilot license with no garauntee of being in the unit. The city treats them like crap unlike their counterparts on CFD (no offense to them). CPD gets the fire departments old helicopter (after the feds wanted the $11 million back to fund a police helicopter which shortshanks pocketed), then buys CFD 2 brand new helicopters at $6 million a pop. CPD is stuck with 2, twin rotar 2-3 person helos that can't go faster than 65mph and can not hover, while the fire department has 2 brand new 8-12 man, 4 rotar helos that can hover, travel at speed and transport personnel. CPD is stuffed in the corner of the brand new hanger (built for CFD) with make shift 2x4 and dry wall cubicles and are not allowed in the CFD quarters. If we had the right equipment, the right bosses organizing a functional unit and we treated our own people fairly, the helicopters coule be out there providing the city with 24hr useful coverage!
"Wow...does anyone expect a LT. to jump into the water and rescue injured boaters? Or the Chief of Special Functions to arm himself with an M4 and jump into the
stack on a raid? Get real, asshat!
9/23/2011 08:01:00 PM"
Ever hear of lead by example? My Infantry Platoon Lt. was equally proficient operating the Mortar as well as pushing a pencil in garrison.
Thats why the CPD is a joke, incompetent Supervisors who couldnt lead themselves out of a wet paper bag.
9/24/2011 02:05:00 AM
Exactly. Exactly. Waaaay too much bitching from people who don't do shit, "led" by supervisors who dont know shit, havent done shit, and are too concerned about themselves and not their people.
Ever hear of lead by example? My Infantry Platoon Lt. was equally proficient operating the Mortar as well as pushing a pencil in garrison.
Thats why the CPD is a joke, incompetent Supervisors who couldnt lead themselves out of a wet paper bag.
at ease stroke. This is the police department, not the military. Go try to impress someone else with that.. Quit tryin to be so hardcore, this is a job... thats all, a job. stop tryin to play warrior out on these streets. Your msf days are over. Take all the crap off your vest and belt and relax. Youve got 27 more years to go on this job...slow down.
Chicago needs a hots--t whiz-bang super-high-tech helicopter unit like Berlin has!
(See Helicops, a gloriously cheesy German 1990s cop show, now being shown in the U.S. by third-tier cable channel EbruTV.)
Just A Civilian (who has RCN basic cable)
wow second city you missed a golden one here !!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=hdkDRGbtMGc
holm was a great guy
9/23/2011 03:17:00 AM
Better hope that never happens..
Because at that point, Revenue PEA's become the Highest ranking Enforcement officers in the city...cause no one will listen to a rental badge.
holm was a great guy
9/24/2011 06:15:00 PM
Ha!!!.....now that is definitely the funniest comment I have ever seen on this blog!! You should take that show on the road.
dont cry for the pilots they racked up more overtime than dicks
Why not learn how to write General case report before calling in an air strike!
Too bad but they are never up when you need them
hipiap1 said...
9/23/2011 03:17:00 AM
Better hope that never happens..
Because at that point, Revenue PEA's become the Highest ranking Enforcement officers in the city...cause no one will listen to a rental badge.
9/24/2011 07:08:00 PM
All, right come on already. I mean, talk about irrelevant authority. Aren't you like the spokesperson for the Dept. of Revenue agents? You are not the police, despite the fact that they gave you five-point stars. Not even close. The fact that you think this, calling yourself here "Enforcement officers" is just a joke. You are ticket writers. Meter maids. Not law-enforcement officers or peace officers.
Fuck, everyone hates the police, but everyone wants to be the police. Including you. Go find some metered-parking blog to post on.
Clout babies without a spot? Not to worry these clout laden kids will land in a very soft spot(again).
Anonymous said...
helicopters are insanely expensive to operate.
---
Not any more expensive than the top heavy ranks of gold star suckhole bastards. Typical boss response, "they are sooo expensive!"
Damn dump of a shithole department in a shithole city.
at ease stroke. This is the police department, not the military. Go try to impress
U miss his point it is not about the military it is about the BS system here Unless u like it it is BS and works only for the Clouted. dont call names it's so petty
What if Maggie needs a helicopter ?????
9/23/2011 06:00:00 PM
Hey whatever Maggie wants Maggie gets. Kapish
Signed Rich
The Inspector General's report seems to confirm the Police Helicopter Unit's closing as well as doing away with the Police Marine Unit.
That unit has been mis-managed from the very beginning. The world's greatest asshole Harry Hohm made more enemies than Hitler. The unit is desperately short of pilots and yet there are plenty pilots employed by the CPD. The helicopter is used to cover school crossings on the southside every day....for what??Either use it properly or get rid of it. Since the choppers were acquired, they have not been used properly. They are managed by people who know absolutely nothing about aviation. The people in the unit have no say whatsoever about their missions. The decision makers are clueless and send the helicopters to fly around with no real purpose other than to be able to say at a meeting that the helicopter was there.
SO So very true
Harry Hohm what a terrible person
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