Explain Please
From the Comment Section:
- My Two Cents said...
A few quick points why I and everyone I know will be voting NO. This is referencing the literature FLOP posted on their website:
Section 2 - Wages, Section D. "Pension Legislation Reopener":
says the Lodge "can" reopen the Agreement and renegotiate salary, percentage increases and duty availability pay. Doesn't say they "WILL" or that they "HAVE TO". If/when we wind up exceeding 9% of our pay for our pension, watch for them (FLOP) to say something along the lines of "the city ain't gonna budge and it ain't worth fighting/going to arbitration".
THE PENSION IS A STATE ISSUE AND SHOULD NOT BE INCLUDED IN ANYTHING RELATED TO THE CITY / OUR CONTRACT.
Section 3 - Duty Availability Allowance
The fact that they want to keep new hires after 01 Jan 15 from duty availability pay for 3 1/2 years is total bullshit. These kids are the first ones to have to be 'available' for the worst of assignments via reverse seniority. They do the same job we all do, they shouldn't have to lose this perk. PLUS THIS IS PENSIONABLE, SO THIS 'TEMPORARY' LOSS ACTUALLY EQUATES TO MUCH MORE THAN APPROX $10K.
Section 10 - Time Due
States in part: "Accordingly, for officers assigned to District Law Enforcement" and "approval of which shall not be unreasonably denied".
A) This language suggests that people in units and detectives won't have any recourse when denied the use of elective time
B) Define "unreasonably" until the "minimum set percentage" of officers allowed off on any given day is established
Section 11 - Police Department Vehicles
Should have NEVER been a contract proposal since the employer has to provide us with the tools necessary to do our jobs. Says city "intends" to purchase 400 cars by years end and an average of 200 for each additional year of contract. Also says how city and FLOP will form a committee regarding repair, maintainance and mandatory retirement of vehicles.
A) Are there repercussions if they DON'T buy those cars? "Intends" is doublespeak for "NOT mandated".
B) How about ensuring any new cars bought first go to PATROL AT THE DISTRICT LEVEL. NO UNITS, HOUSE MICE OR BOSSES GETTING THE NEW CARS WHILE WE GET HAND-ME-DOWNS.
Oh yeah, the 11 percent over 5 years is an insult. Especially since, by Rahm and Garry's own repeated admission, crime is at record lows across the board (sans agg batts with firearms). You can't justify paying teachers, streets and sanitation folks and every city labor union employee from window washer to painter a higher percentage in wage increases than first responders.
Anyone from FOP want to address these specific concerns?
Labels: contract stuff
posted by SCC at 12:09 AM
199 Comments:
I'm a no vote, but everyday is hear more and officers saying this is a good contract. Wake up people the pension and insurance alone will cost more than our measly raise!
This contract is LOSE LOSE LOSE... We lose tuition reimbursement. We lose a percentage of our PENSION to healthcare. We are promised that we can use time due, WHICH WE ARE ALREADY SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO USE, so its a wash. We are promised cars, WHICH THE CITY IS SUPPOSED TO PROVIDE regardless, so its a wash. So, lets see...
Here is the loss column:
-the newer officers lose duty availability
- we all lose pension to healthcare.. a little now, but look the fuck out later on down the road
- furlo is now by watch meaning if you are on days with 20 years in a slow dist you are getting a fucking winter furlo
-we lose a chunk of tuition reimbursement for advanced degrees for now, but later I'm sure the rest will go bye bye as well...
The win column
-that one year of retro. (minus overtime)
-you get working day furlo one year earlier.
-raise that won't cover the incoming property tax hike
If you vote yes, please punch yourself in the nuts for me. Thanks!
Dean Sr,
Challenge any unit reps to a debate about the contract, and put the debate on the FOP website. Defend your positions. Have a nice day.
America
Most people in units and detective units don't have issues getting time due, so I don't see why people not in these units are concerned if it don't affect them
The teachers are doing a bang up job. Just ask Karen Lewis and the 60% who are graduating. Nevermind the 40%.
Well they intend to buy 400 new cars. How about they buy 200 and stick the money for the other 200 in a TIF fund or something? Isn't that how it's done?
What's next?
How about radio batteries in the next contract...or an agreement to fix 400 city pot holes the first year and 200 each year thereafter....lol
Well, hey we're doing it to improve your workplace /sarc.
So the FOP negotiated this whole thing in secret from the members, and now says "trust us, this is the best we're going to get." I'm not going to be blindly led into anything. Everyone is too distracted by retro. If we fall for that now, when this contract runs out all the city will have to do is wave a set of shiny keys in our faces and we'll be too damn distracted to read the fine print again.
I am voting NO because the pension is a state constitutional issue. Including this in the contract isn't helping us ;it opens a backdoor where it can be used against us.
The new car proposal shouldn't be in there as well. Like a previous commenter stated ,are we going to be asking for evidence bags and copy paper ?
Finally , why hasn't the union posted the whole contract proposal , but instead only a summary , and the whole helicopter pilot raise is laughable .
Vote no.
You lost me at FLOP.
If you have valid points, don't be a douchebag
Don't look at the details
Look at this pay and retro we are giving youDANGLE DANGLE
We won't get more at arb?????
Well no we won't , but we sure as hell ain't gonna give away as much as we are now. When you go to arb you can only fight certain things. Half the stuff on the table we are giving up wouldn't even be required or touchable in arb.
Quit being blinded by retro and raise percentages, while the smaller deatail a are wiggled out under our chins.
Yes making sure the district POs get the new vehicles first so they can promptly crash them should definantly be in the contract !
Keep in mind tat Dean gets FREE Healthcare while on disability until 63 then when he is "retired" he will get FREE healthcare on the 60 and out. DiMaria, Bella also receive FREE healthcare. What do they care if we have to pay? They got theirs.
FOP dues go up each time we get a raise. So the FOP receives an additional 3.50 a check or 7 dollars a month. That is a 16% raise for them, while we only get 11%
Bears Win!
I will also vote NO....I just don't know why people only see the whopping 11% and say "I will take that!" What is wrong with you people? First, the fact that vehicles are involved in our contract only opens the door for them to make it a budget issue in later contracts. Secondly, If you haven't read about the changes to our medical benefits you better! Thirdly, It seems to me.....our union is not working for us.....case in point, they tell(scare) you by saying if this goes to arbitration you can forget about ANY retro for the first year.....so with that PO's are saying that's a lot of money to be losing.....you know what I say to the union....go Fuck yourself.....if this has to go to arbitration (which it should because it is horse shit) and we receive nothing for that first year...you can bet your sweet ass I will file a class action lawsuit against the union for not doing their job and trust me I WILL get that first years retro.....including overtime! Oh and just an FYI...we don't have to settle for what the firefighters got!
Suggesting that we should get a higher raise because crime is down is absurd. By that logic if crime was up we should receive a lower raise or no raise.
That was a great comment from the comment section, and something should think about. It also shows we should read the fine print before we sign on the dotted line, especially with car saleman Rahm trying to sell us something.
The person who wrote this is unreasonable. So let's say the majority votes no then goes to arbitration. Please explain why you think the arbitrator will give us more.
It's not a good to have in writing that the city must provide new cars for us? How is this a negative? You seem worried about the enforcement issue so your response is to vote no?
Absolute agreement , the duty availability doesn't make sense ,when the new folks have no choice but to be available. Also from here on out you'll either have to be top ten in district or spend the rest of your career on midnights or afternoon to get a decent furlough. Instant gratification not looking down the road. So what folks on management have to go to midnights for a little bit, then vice versa I really doubt there's a lot of arm twisting for volunteers to work days in the summer.
Riddle me this batman??? When in the past have the supervisors been ordered not to comment on a contract as they have been with this contract?
Because it sucks! Their contracts are a ton better, and if goes to arbitration that's where the arbitrator will look. If they're not supposed to comment voluntarily, start asking them some questions before it's too late....
Bravo to My Two Cents for catching the infamous slippery syntax infused rhetoric that the FOP is known to spew.
Even if what FOP posted on their website is just a synopsis and not a verbatim rendering of certain aspects of contract proposals, they need to be much more clear on particulars. I find it incredible that FOP 7's labor attorney let verbiage like "intends to purchase" and "not unreasonably denied" slip into the contract language. These rank right up there with "kinda pregnant".
Failure to be 100% clear on things only increases suspicion that contractual hijinks may have taken place. They wouldn't want us dumb coppers to start thinking that maybe - just maybe - Shields was on to something when he declared police contracts as 'fixed'. Clarification, please, FOP! Your videos failed to address the intracacies of several issues, Dean. There's a lot of us that prefer more than just the Cliffs Notes version of what a "Pension Reopener" is.
As for all of the Retro-blinded fools worried that going to arbitration is a sure loser regarding wage increases, read on:
Arbitrator Benn rendered his rulings regarding our current contract in 2010. Throughout his 150+ page decision, he consistently cited the devastated economy as a primary reason against better percentages for raises. He also made mention that future contract arbitrations couldn't rely on the same reasons if/when the economy improved.
Fast forward to present day. The DJIA is at 17,000 compared to 8,700 in 2008. Nasdaq is at 4,100 vs. 1,600. And the S&P 500 is at 1,800 vs. 900.
Meanwhile, the Consumer Price Index (CPI) numbers as provided by the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) show a 10.7% cumulative rate of inflation in regards to the buying power of the dollar between 2008 and 2014.
The BLS also shows a lower unemployment rate (-1/2%) between the same times, while Census.gov shows median home prices increased 9%.
There's a lot more to digest than just proposed salary increases, folks. It's just too bad that the money aspect always seems to be the biggest distractor to all the short-sighted people who are too lazy to read ALL the proposals and compare/contrast them to contracts past and present...
THIS IS BY DESIGN. They distract some of us with $$$ signs while bending us over to fuck us harder down the road. I don't have the literature an FOP Rep handed out last week in front of me at the moment, but there's talk of a WAY over-inflated dollar amount calculated as retroactive pay. Take a close look at that and do the math when you read the proposals before inking your ballot.
The little bit we stand to lose in retroactive pay is nothing compared to what they're attempting to do to new hires and how they're whacking the retirees with health care costs. We're all gonna get there one day, and it's only going to get worse as time wears on now that Pandoras Box has been opened.
Read the proposals. Talk about them with your spouses, friends and coworkers. Ask a dinosaur who's been thru a few of these things his or her opinions. This is going to be a pivotal contract.
And thanks for keeping this topic on the front burner, SCC.
IM outta here soon.... Either way in my eyes I win. Contract Settles or not I get the 55 and out. But I will vote no. Reason. The medical... does juan or boo have to go to certain hospitals? Our coverage sucks.
2nd of all. Blue is blue. 2 months or 20 years. And fuckin the new hires is not in my mind something I can do. The city has plenty of money for magget park. De - who? basketball etc. They can pay their city employees.
"Trust us, this is the best we're going to get."
Exact same tactic used by AFT-IFT Local 1600 to persuade its members to accept its last lousy contract (City Colleges of Chicago full-time faculty) hours before the Chicago Public Schools went on strike. It proved to be a bad deal and there are now suspicions that the union president was bought by the city.
I'm voting No! Rahm and Anglo sold our pension down the river with this. We won't be able to sue for the constitution violation cause we are accepting the reduction. Just like Ade did with Sgts. But not as obvious. Problem is voting down how do we get the union to arbitrate or remove things that shouldn't be in there. They talk in secrecy to the city and already agreed to all these things.
Hey vote no that's a great idea. What's the worst that can happen ?? O yeah last time Daley was offering 16 percent and it went to arbitration. How did that work out for us???
I just don't think any arbitrator will be good to us at all. As far as cars go....WHO FUCKING CARES! That's the departments prob. If the cars are bad down them and sit in the station all night. Nothing we can do about it. If they don't want to buy cars then it's the public's problem. Sorry.
I concur and will be voting NO !!
I'm voting no
It's not a good to have in writing that the city must provide new cars for us? How is this a negative? You seem worried about the enforcement issue so your response is to vote no?
9/15/2014 02:14:00 AM
What I am really worried about is that you can't read!Where is the word must,one of us needs glasses.
A garbageman in the City of Chicago makes more than the average policeman or fireman.
Go figure out why?????
Take your crumbs or else you will not be able to afford all the useless stuff you coppers buy instead of being smart with your money.
Vote yes!
Mr and Mrs 1 Percent!
ALL Department vehicles should be MARKED, with the exception of covert vehicles. Why should "certain people" be allowed to cruise around the city or state or the midwest undetected? That just begs for violating the rules and regs.
Let the bosses/suckholes park marked cars in their neighborhoods. Maybe it will help keep the savages out.
We get our info from the unsecured FOP site! Thanks FOP for your hard work but I will vote no better letting arbitrator taking away than signing off on some of these proposals. Oh wait I would not want them to take away new cars? Oh Maybe getting time off? Oh my insurance going up? Yes Dean it is going up when I have to pay more at the doctors, copayment, care, I just am not paying more out my check! Oh what about last contract what arbitrator said about raises and bad economy! If this is the best we can do with you and your labor lawyers we are in trouble! Can we get in the state police lodge?
Glen, give it up.
Your boy, Shields fucked up, plain and simple.
Then he tried playing the crazy card when he got called onto the carpet.
VOTING NO!
Thank you for explaining this to everyone. Some are still blind...
VOTE NO!
OT:
Today (9/15/14) the trial begins for Ofc. Craig Taylor of Park Forest PD. Ofc. Taylor was graciously charged with felony reckless conduct by our amazing State's Attorney's office. The village and the department stand by Ofc. Taylor and insist that he did not violate any department policies or procedures.
The chief has asked officers to show up at Markham Court today (9/15/14) at 9am and in uniform in show of support for Ofc. Taylor before his 10am trial. The plan is to form a line from the front doors to rm 105 at 9am.
Sorry I got the information out so late. It just occurred to me to put it out. Be safe.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/crime/26591147-418/park-forest-officer-charged-in-bean-bag-gun-death-of-95-year-old.html
Was going to vote yes on contract leaving with 55 and out but changed my mind this is total bullshit not going to let city give me what 2,000 now and take away so much!
Dean don't know what your crew got for trying to shove this up our ass but no this is not passing! No other fop president has ever pushed so hard to get something passed what did rahm give you? Dean pension reopened? You should out that the city will have to fund the pension as required! Failure =dean 2.0!
The carrot here is the Retro , furlough by watch, time due and the new cars. The truth is that the majority of officers have under 20 years on. They bitch about not getting time due and not having an S.U.V.( and in my district if the S.U.V. doesn't have a radio that works ).
The Union and the city figure that the majority that will vote to pass this are not looking at the health care and pension .
The truth is that the majority doesn't care about the rookies coming on losing benefits because the new attitude is " give me
mine and screw the rest. "
I am thinking that the verbiage in the contract was specifically written vaguely to allow the city to use it against us.
Who's buddy was it that said "You will get to keep your same doctor and your health insurance."
I can give more examples but you get the drift. I don't think that the Union has bargained for a better contract. In many ways its worse.
Our new hires on the CFD got the same screw job you guys are getting in your new contract. Ours started two contracts ago though.
Vote no. For the plain and simple facts stated above and also because the new guys r losing over $3200 a year for the first 4 something years. So, us getting a whopping few thousand in retro is saving the city over 10k PER new hire. Robbing peter to pay Paul is not the answer. The tiers of hospitals sucks too.
This shouldn't even be an issue but you know us, we'll sell the future generations up a river for a couple of extra furlough days earlier and a few grand promised us by Christmas.
Just a question, Are the people who are stating they will vote no and demand a better raise and benefits, the same people that get on here and tell us all how they don't do anything at work ?
So the logic goes, I proud of not doing anything and I want more money for it too?
The city is bribing the membership with the first year retro. It isn't even a good bribe. They tried bribing the sgts union with a signing bonus if the contract was signed by a certain date. They didn't have that first year mess up to hold over their head. Be careful with the city dangling the money. The 'take this contract and you get a little retro for year 1 or don't take it and you get nothing' is a blatant bribe. They are winning more than they are losing. CAUTION.
The city won't immediately go to arbitration. This Is not their last, best or final offer. Vote No on this. They also do not want arbitration.
Not a PO, but the logic of putting language about police cars in your contract is ridiculous!
Do they also put tuck pointing of the police stations in your contract? Or what about cleaning supplies or toilet paper for police station restrooms? Is that in your contract too??? Very strange.
It's not a good to have in writing that the city must provide new cars for us? How is this a negative? You seem worried about the enforcement issue so your response is to vote no?
the city buying cars was, is not and never has been part of our contract you fucking retard!!!!!! thanks flop...
I remember when we voted the Nolan bullsh@t contract down years ago. Shocked the union and the city. They talked the retro con for yes votes then, but thankfully there were enough Coppers reading between the lines/lies to shoot it down.
I don't think that contract was nearly as full of nonsense as this ons is.
Read it. Think about it long term. Vote NO.
Since the firemen voted yes on their's the arbitrator will give us the same and if it goes to arbitration we will just have to wait another year to get the same thing now.
Duty availability is pensionable but nobody gets a pension after 3 1/2 years. When he leaves 30 years later his pension, if he gets one, is based on last four years salary plus duty availability of last four years. First 3 1/2 years of duty availability have nothing to do with it.
First comment, what do the teachers have to do with this post? Or Karen Lewis? Idiot...
Secondly, if this goes to arbitration, what do you lose? Nothing... but pension is not a collective bargaining issue so anything in this contract will not stand up in court or be thrown in your face saying "see this is what their union wants, they don't want more..." Cars and tools for the job should not be bargaining chips, if law enforcement is done right, Shit may get broken but apparently its not done right so cars sound great. Keep doing more with less.
Lastly and most importantly, if the contract is voted down, the mayor can't mention his "good faith with unions" during his campaign. Put a smudge on the pricks face so he can't use the contract as a campaign slogan...
That is all
I think they are referring to if the 9% gets exceeded by the legislation FOP can reopen the agreement to increase the salaries. Perhaps it should say that and maybe say that the reopening will NOT diminish what we already have. I think this is a good move. In other words they are saying if the city says "Ok you got your raise but now you have to pay 18% towards your pension" FOP can renegotiate our salaries towards the offset of the increase. Dean?
Our dental is sh!T already and now they want to mess with our medical MORE...yeah because I really trust them with my health.
All one has to do is look at the retirees and see how good they are treating them EVEN though they are supposedly protected by law.
We say yes to this contract Rahm will break it without a sweat and cite some BS like his old boss Barry.This contract opens the doors for more things to be taken away.
Keep your 11% and give me an arbitrator!
If you vote yes, no bitching about going back into 6-2 (provision 21) when we refuse to increase pension contributions. Ambiguous language is where the war will be lost. Do not sell out for the retro!!
That pension thing just smells like a set up.
Just on that 1 line im voting NO!
The funny thing in the contract everything related to CR numbers and beefs is very EXACT. No maybes or if the officer feels like.
Sorry Dean but the videos were a good idea.
Remember the city and state are broke. It doesn't really matter what the contract says, when the money runs out it runs out. Then Federal bankruptcy court will determine the pennies on the dollar payout by party.
Nobody Knows the cash value of the lost RETRO on the overtime numbers???
Can you imagine buying a house and the Realtor tells it a great deal never we don't have any assessment info.
Dean you can always keep on negotiating now is not the time be a fluff-er.
Offer is not good. arbitration will be worst. Retro and 4% raise WILL be lost! That's 4% cumulative over the rest of your career that you will never get back. That's tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands if you have less than five years on. We will not gain anything with arbitration. it sucks but trusting that an arbitrator will do better is a pipe dream. Risk is too high. I will go to the informational meeting but I'm leaning towards voting yes.
The politicians are hoping for a "NO" vote. The firefighters accepted a similar deal now some "stubborn" unions are holding back. They will claim they will be forced to do it via legislation including amending the state constitution. They will claim to be backed in to a corner. It will not be difficult to get the voters to amend the state constitution. The current crop of politicians have already lined their pockets.
Why do i have a feeling that 4 helicopter pilots will vote yes on the contract!
I always laugh at guys in UNITS who beg to get there and then cry for more pay.
Try working the desk in 011! Now those guys deserve a raise.
One reason to vote No , duty availability should be for all officers on the 1st and 3rd watch . If you want an extra 6% , use your seniority and join us on the 1st or 3rd watch , you will also get a better furlough .
Furlough by watch is the only thing in contract I agree with . Now with 12 years on , working the 3rd watch , I will get a better furlough than a copper 25 year .
New cars as a negotiating point , I don't think so .
How about all two man cars , no cars or wagons put down .
Vote No.
I work the desk and I was disappointed to see that we aren't going to be getting any new staplers in this contract. They are a vital part of a well functioning station . Paperclips just do not cut it. You can't slam a paperclip for that dramatic effect of ultimate frustration.
The F.O.P. better get out in front of this,feels like we're being hoodwinked. Kind of seems the Retro is being used as a "Magic Wand", but Abacadabra, your long term security is being made to disappear one right at a time. YOUNG GUYS , wake up one day you'll need the benefits that don't seem important now.
'Arbitrator Benn rendered his rulings regarding our current contract in 2010. Throughout his 150+ page decision, he consistently cited the devastated economy as a primary reason against better percentages for raises. He also made mention that future contract arbitrations couldn't rely on the same reasons if/when the economy improved."
He also added the 5th year to the contract under the assumption that it was needed for the economy to improve. And now look, the 5th year is becoming standard.
Some of you guys sounds like complete morons. To the guy filing the class action lawsuit about your retro you will be owed; We already lost that fight in court. But I'm sure you'll find a judge in Illinois who will listen to you.
Also, most of you aren't even aware that all new hires are already in a somewhat different retirement plan than us as their minimum retirement age is 55.
As far as tuition reimbursement, half of you don't realize that the change only applies to your advanced degree, not undergraduate which is still 100%.
Mike shields thought he was above all of us and he was put in his place. I think Dean is going to get an early wake up call too when when he learns or is reminded that he works for US when this offer is shot down by the membership. I for one am insulted he felt the need to do the negotiating behind our backs. Well, now he can eat crow and let's take this contract to arbitration
How about something about hiring more coppers? Remember the big classes they made in 85-86? Well, they are all retiring NOW....
Anonymous said...
I will also vote NO....I just don't know why people only see the whopping 11% and say "I will take that!" What is wrong with you people? First, the fact that vehicles are involved in our contract only opens the door for them to make it a budget issue in later contracts. Secondly, If you haven't read about the changes to our medical benefits you better! Thirdly, It seems to me.....our union is not working for us.....case in point, they tell(scare) you by saying if this goes to arbitration you can forget about ANY retro for the first year.....so with that PO's are saying that's a lot of money to be losing.....you know what I say to the union....go Fuck yourself.....if this has to go to arbitration (which it should because it is horse shit) and we receive nothing for that first year...you can bet your sweet ass I will file a class action lawsuit against the union for not doing their job and trust me I WILL get that first years retro.....including overtime! Oh and just an FYI...we don't have to settle for what the firefighters got!
9/15/2014 01:35:00 AM
WOW!! You have to be the dumbest person to ever post on the SCC Blog................I don't remember seeing your name on the last FOP ballot, wait have you ever been to a meeting? Didn't think so!
Two Cents is right. The contract is filled with feel good stuff that is unenforceable, such as the vehicle purchase provision. Its a smoke screen to get those who complain about the vehicle status to vote yes. It shouldn't be in the contract. Why didn't Angelo and his ilk put other nonsensical items in the contract, such as the city has to provide toilet paper to the station restrooms, the city has to provide gas for the vehicles, the city has to provide snow tires for the vehicles. Boy or boy did I make a mistake in voting for Angelo and his crew of phonies.
Bravo pay very close attention all you "I just want to vote yes to get it over with already"
The Pension Reopener is there to protect us from Springfield who wants to jack up our pension contributions. If Springfield does that, we can reopen negotiations for increased pay.
As for duty availability, it's NOT pensionable, never has been. Not sure where you got that from. It was a shit sandwich to swallow, but those new hires will eventually get the duty availability. Firefighters got the same thing in their contract.
Tuition reimbursement is THE SAME for undergraduate degrees. The 75% for an A and 50% for a B or C is graduate school.
-----------
Most of your comments are very uninformed: go to the information session on the 17th at Biagio's.
I am voting YES to the contract because I have attending the meetings and I have read up on everything. I challenge you to do the same.
The teachers are doing a bang up job. Just ask Karen Lewis and the 60% who are graduating. Nevermind the 40%.
9/15/2014 12:30:00 AM
Hey numbnuts, it's not us against the teachers. Weather the teachers are doing a good job ir not, isn't the issue. The real issue is the city's divide and conquer strategy, which appears to have worked very well on you.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Riddle me this batman??? When in the past have the supervisors been ordered not to comment on a contract as they have been with this contract?
Because it sucks! Their contracts are a ton better, and if goes to arbitration that's where the arbitrator will look. If they're not supposed to comment voluntarily, start asking them some questions before it's too late....
9/15/2014 02:57:00 AM
Supervisors have always been ordered not to discuss FOP union business. In fact, supervisors are not even supposed to be in the roll call room when FOP business is being discussed. This has always been the case. The intention is that nobody can ever say they were bullied by a supervisor into going against their union.
As usual, the city is playing a game of chess while the union plays checkers. The city is thinking ahead and trying to distract us with a base salary only retro. Think about this, why are they offering it? We lost appeals regarding this already meaning that we are not entitled to it. If this contract were to go to arbitration, I don’t think an arbiter could even give it to us if he wanted. So why give us something that they don’t have to and something that we wouldn’t even get through arbitration? The obvious answer is that it is to bait us into a rush to accept it knowing that in the long run, we lose.
The small % in retiree health care will ultimately lead to a larger increase in the future. An arbiter is less likely to make us pay for something that we currently do not. But he is certainly going to consider an increase when we already pay. Future outcome: the city will raise that % significantly, you can count on that.
Check
union: when they do screw with our pension we can reopen and negotiate again, but then again, no headway will be made and we will lose that renegotiation anyways.
Duty availability? The city is making the brilliant move of trying to do something that effects future applicants.. Many apathetic coppers will care little about something that doesn’t directly affect them. It results in a pay decrease of thousands of dollars a year for them and a move towards eliminating it all together in the future.
Check
union: we got them to think about getting new vehicles to possibly replace the old ones... maybe. And you can use your time due, well, perhaps, depends on the bosses ideas of what minimum staffing is.
Tuition reimbursement? The city is targeting advanced degrees. Future outcome: they will eliminate advanced degrees and move towards a reduction in under grad classes.
Check
Union: uhhh we are getting you an 11% raise and retro for that first year!!. Well not for everything, it’s a discounted retro on salary so all that overtime, cta, vri etc doesn’t count. But yeahhhh, retro!!! This counts as a double jump, and crown my piece. Crown us..
City: enjoy your retro your highness and your 4 years worth of raises on a 5 year contract. Thanks for playing and opening the door to all our future moves. Trust us, whatever you think you my have gained was only a ploy to get you fall into our trap and approve the contract.
oh, by the way, checkmate.
New guys out there be very very careful, once something is lost it can NEVER be regained. This sneaky fuck is not to be trusted. We'll be much better off at arbitration!
Vote NO!!! Sorry Dean, this is not what you told me!
You people are insane if u think the corrupted Arb. Benn will give us ONE MORE PENNY than his Machine masters will.
Obamacare is the freight train bearing down on us. Take your kids and get in line behind Dude-you-just-locked-up at County and get a double dose flu shot.
There WILL BE NO PENSION after 2025. The damned thing is funded at 30% going into the largest demographic retirement in the history of our country. It cannot survive at its current state. The Baby Boomers will devour it all. if you are 45 or younger, you will get nothing.
Vote yes. Take that retro and **SAVE** it! DO NOT burn it like a West Side lottery winner.
I hope it gets voted down, goes to arbitration and the arbitrator really gives us a nice big bitch slap. That's what I'm hoping for LOL!!!!!!!
Sure, no problem paying pension for healthcare. In return, you can lift residency. Thanks!
My vote is NO. The problem with this department is no one is looking at the big picture and what is going to happen to them 10-15 yrs down the road. With them screwing the new guys coming in and saving all that money , we should have got something in return for that big money saver. For our co pay going up, we should have got something in return. For the money the city is saving on tuition, we should have got something in return. 11% isn't really a raise, it doesn't even cover cost of living. The mayor just passed a ordinance that says any city contract employer must pay the worker $13/hr, but he doesn't want to give a decent raise for the cost of living rising. We are losing way too much on this contract for us to approve it. Most of the stuff added in there wasn't even what the membership was asking for. All the new stuff in there, insurance co pays going up, certain hospital only being allowed to treat you, and 2% 55-60yo if retiring screws us big time long term. Stop think "but right now this helps me out," in 10yo ur going to be bitching about what we had and what we lost. If we go to arb most of the things in the contract a arb can't touch. F@ck my 2% raise without the overtime, they can keep it. They are making their money back on they stupid raise from everything else we are giving up. We might not get a 2% raise the first year, but I could see the arb adding .5% to each of the other years to make up for it. Also, keep your new cars. Your suppose to supply us with that anyway. If we were allowed to take them home then I could see it in the contract. I can't believe this is even being considerd by our union.
Sorry for the long comment but Please Vote No!
My vote is NO. The problem with this department is no one is looking at the big picture and what is going to happen to them 10-15 yrs down the road. With them screwing the new guys coming in and saving all that money , we should have got something in return for that big money saver. For our co pay going up, we should have got something in return. For the money the city is saving on tuition, we should have got something in return. 11% isn't really a raise, it doesn't even cover cost of living. The mayor just passed a ordinance that says any city contract employer must pay the worker $13/hr, but he doesn't want to give a decent raise for the cost of living rising. We are losing way too much on this contract for us to approve it. Most of the stuff added in there wasn't even what the membership was asking for. All the new stuff in there, insurance co pays going up, certain hospital only being allowed to treat you, and 2% 55-60yo if retiring screws us big time long term. Stop think "but right now this helps me out," in 10yo ur going to be bitching about what we had and what we lost. If we go to arb most of the things in the contract a arb can't touch. F@ck my 2% raise without the overtime, they can keep it. They are making their money back on they stupid raise from everything else we are giving up. We might not get a 2% raise the first year, but I could see the arb adding .5% to each of the other years to make up for it. Also, keep your new cars. Your suppose to supply us with that anyway. If we were allowed to take them home then I could see it in the contract. I can't believe this is even being considerd by our union.
Sorry for the long comment but Please Vote No!
Thank you for the great comment and a big thank you to SCC for posting it and giving us a forum!
Anonymous said...
The person who wrote this is unreasonable. So let's say the majority votes no then goes to arbitration. Please explain why you think the arbitrator will give us more.
9/15/2014 02:11:00 AM
The arbiter isn't going to screw us as bad as this contract proposal. I'd be happy with less of a raise, no cars, lose a year of retro. Touhing our pension is COMPLETELY unreasonable
Anonymous said...
The teachers are doing a bang up job. Just ask Karen Lewis and the 60% who are graduating. Nevermind the 40%.
9/15/2014 12:30:00 AM
Blaming the teachers for the poor performance in a classroom is the same as blaming police for high rates of crime. Public schools must accept every student while private schools and charter schools have the ability to select or cherry pick their students. Learn the facts before you stay stupid things.
Anonymous said...
Keep in mind tat Dean gets FREE Healthcare while on disability until 63 then when he is "retired" he will get FREE healthcare on the 60 and out. DiMaria, Bella also receive FREE healthcare. What do they care if we have to pay? They got theirs.
9/15/2014 01:05:00 AM
Oh shut up already, tired of your non stop ramblings on him. Stick to the topic.
2nd of all. Blue is blue. 2 months or 20 years. And fuckin the new hires is not in my mind something I can do.
I can see both sides of this issue, but it raises a question. Where were all of you who claim to be looking out for the best interests of the new kids when they changed the probationary period from 12 to 18 months? Just axin.
Anonymous said...
The person who wrote this is unreasonable. So let's say the majority votes no then goes to arbitration. Please explain why you think the arbitrator will give us more.
9/15/2014 02:11:00 AM
Years ago I used to go to the old Maxwell Street market. Sol would fit you with a suitcoat and say, "Feel this material - First Class!" Then he would name his asking price. You'd say "No way!" and take the coat off, but he'd put it right back on and name a lower price. This went on until both of you got what was fair.
It is sad to see all the frightened little boys and girls today who wet their panties and start crying "Uncle!" the second they hear that big bad scary word - Arbitration.
What has happened to my country? I guess it truly is "no country for old men" anymore because so many people are so weak and fearful they will fight for nothing, kneel down before their masters and lap up the table scraps dropped on the floor. Even worse, you pretend to be cops.
Think for a second, and grow a pair. There are too many things wrong with this contract, many of which were outlined in the subject post.
Rahm needs this to go through before the election, preferably before the November elections. Dean is either off his meds or has been bought off to bring a contract like this to the membership.
Either way, look past the the nice material and the shiny buttons. Tell Sol (Rahm) no, and force him to negotiate.
IM outta here soon.... Either way in my eyes I win. Contract Settles or not I get the 55 and out. But I will vote no. Reason. The medical... does juan or boo have to go to certain hospitals? Our coverage sucks.
2nd of all. Blue is blue. 2 months or 20 years. And fuckin the new hires is not in my mind something I can do. The city has plenty of money for magget park. De - who? basketball etc. They can pay their city employees.
9/15/2014 03:18:00 AM
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Blue is blue??? Give me a break you putz. Look at the bigger picture. If you vote no, you will lose much much more in arbitration. Then you and your blue is blue crap will suffer especially when the city gets rid of 55 and out to screw us for not accepting the contract.. You know, like the sgts. Think u strokes
Anonymous said...
The person who wrote this is unreasonable. So let's say the majority votes no then goes to arbitration. Please explain why you think the arbitrator will give us more.
9/15/2014 02:11:00 AM
The arbitrator "giving us more " is not the issue.
The issue is that the pension language in the contract needs to be removed.
The time due and the cars are things that we already have.
I punched myself in the balls I'm still voting yes. If u reallythink we will get more in arbitration u shud punch urself in the head
You lost me at FLOP.
If you have valid points, don't be a douchebag
9/15/2014 12:58:00 AM
So says the pot.
Look at tax hikes , real estate, telephone , gas Bill went way up , water Bill doubled .
What has he done , raised over $7,000,000 campaign fund war chest . So e people are doing very good . Police are not , either are the factory. Tradesman that live in Chicago , gasoline tax , cigarette tax , water bottle tax.
When will it end .
Safe passage patrols , not for the northwest or southwest side of Chicago .
Red light ,speed trap cameras that do not apply to his drivers , total bs, also don't apply to folks without license plates , just the working man.
Cameras everywhere , watch your loved one raped , shot , attacked with a machete . We need another 2,000 police officers on patrol , not in an office or driving kids to school .
The duty availability is just a foot in the door to get rid of the whole thing in the future. So many reasons why I am voting no. Sounds like a good portion of the contract also allows the foot in the door. Remember back in the 80's the city only wanted 1$ for health care, now look at what we pay. Why do we always have to give up stuff to get stuff. Our past FOP members have fought for benefits that we later negotiate away.
i will vote no. this needs to go to arbitration. continue to spread the word to the less-informed. this contract should not get the yes vote just like rahm shouldnt get anyone's vote come election time. he is a weasel and a master salesman who only has his needs at heart. if he is so willing to fuck retirees again who are on a fixed income and did their time then what do you think he would like to do to help active city workers. our equipment is pathetic and is in desperate need of upgrading or at the very least fixing and he tells us he "intends" to buy more cars that the city really needs. all he does is lie and cover shit up. our dumb supernintendo cartoon character gmac is told what to say by this murder mayor.
Absolute agreement , the duty availability doesn't make sense ,when the new folks have no choice but to be available. Also from here on out you'll either have to be top ten in district or spend the rest of your career on midnights or afternoon to get a decent furlough. Instant gratification not looking down the road. So what folks on management have to go to midnights for a little bit, then vice versa I really doubt there's a lot of arm twisting for volunteers to work days in the summer.
You are missing the point on duty availability. It has nothing to do with duty availability. It was given to the CPD to replace a benefit that the CFD was given in a prior contract.
Everybody on the CPD gets it whether they are vailable to work or not.if they are in the field or the front and commanders office. Its a name and doesn't apply and has never been applied.
Anonymous said...
You lost me at FLOP.
If you have valid points, don't be a douchebag
9/15/2014 12:58:00 AM
Awwww!!! Poor wittle baby Got his feathers ruffled because they're making fun of what's supposed to be our union. Look past the playful jabs at the incompetency that is the F(l)OP and try to mentally digest the points the original posters trying to make. You're on here worrying about some little jab someone threw at the mopes at 1412 W. Washington Street?? You should direct at least that much attention to researching just how bad they're trying to screw us, crybaby.
You cannot argue the merits of the contract before you with the contract you WANT. The contract you WANT doesn't exist and will never exist.
You need to argue the merits of the contract before you with the contract you will GET if this goes to arbitration.
The likely result of arbitration has never been clearer than it is today for the following reasons:
1. The Sergeants just went to arbitration and lost on the Wellness benefit, 2% healthcare, and still got stuck with their negotiated raise.
2. Every other union has an agreement with the city and all of those agreements will be a basis of an arbitration.
I agree that the biggest sour note in this contract is the denial of duty availability for 3.5 years for new officers. In exchange they get four extra vacation days. But, they also get the raise for 2012, that they absolutely will not get if this goes to arbitration. That 2% accumulated over the life of their career will add up to more than $20k. New officers get the biggest benefit from a retro raise because they get it every year going forward along with the compounding factor (raise on raise).
If you vote no then you are letting your emotions control your decision.
Vote yes.
I was promised a fresh frozen turkey if I vote yes. Just saying...
Anonymous said...
The person who wrote this is unreasonable. So let's say the majority votes no then goes to arbitration. Please explain why you think the arbitrator will give us more.
9/15/2014 02:11:00 AM
The person that fancies him or herself a directional farter sums up a decent argument regarding why the city crying poor should fall on an arbitrators deaf ears. From a strictly financial aspect The city really has a very weak to no argument as to why they can't do better in terms of higher wages and overall benefits.
And I'm just curious regarding our illustrious representation at FOP. Has anyone there been keeping a running tab of the millions upon millions upon tens of millions upon hundreds of millions of dollars the Emanuel administration has spent or has earmarked for unnecessary projects?? You know, kind of like as a way of saying 'hey you got money for everything but the police, how come'?
Wasn't it nice of Rahm to dedicate just this morning a one and a half-million dollar state of the art playground in his own neighborhood? Maybe the hundreds of illegal unaccompanied minor's can hang out there all day every day.
Cars in the contract are you fricken kidding me. The City would have to buy cars eventually. How is the FOP allowing this to be in contract negotiations? Big Fat Free Coffee Drinking NO from me on this contract.
As a retiree, I have been thru many contract negotiations in the past....
Quit thinking about the money and the retro....PREPARE for your future....Do NOT open the pension issue in a city contract...Do NOT open a "them - vs - us" issue with new hires....that's the old divide and conquer crap...and ESPECIALLY do not let them do a Tier selection on your healthcare...all of YOU will someday use it.....too many important things have been taken from us all for the sake of those 30 gold sheckels....please read through and make a wise decision for the good of all.....
How can officers think this is a fair and good contract? Why is everyone scared of arbitration? How has the last few times of arbitration hurt us? Please I only have about 10 years on the job so anyone with real answers can chime in please do so.
I'm totally against the 11 per cent. The arbitrator never ruled in our favor because of poor economic times. Guess what Chicago big tourist attraction this year. Lots of red light and speeding revenue. I say let's go to arbitration. Just don't use Benn again. VOTE NO !
Anonymous said...
Bears Win!
9/15/2014 01:07:00 AM
That younger defense, still had energy left late in the 4th !
You sir are a contrarian and antagonist. OK vote no, but I will vote yes. Remember folks we are negotiating with an evil cabal of elitists who hate the police and do not respect city workers in general. I'm sure that before the contract negotiations began, the city wanted to gut our benefits package and reduce our salary. This is a win for us. The union did a good job. Giving up thousands of dollars in retro by voting no just doesn't make any sense.
Just look at who is on Dean's negotiating team. They were in such a rush to get it done- it favors Rahm and not the members. Sorry I supported you Dean but you are still my friend. You just have no business running my union.
Why would an arbitrator give us anything? According to the last decision, the arbitrator cited a terrible economy for denying us a well earned raise. This time he will use the city's debt and poor bond rating to justify a paltry raise...If any. Never trust a rich guy.
Anonymous said...
Most people in units and detective units don't have issues getting time due, so I don't see why people not in these units are concerned if it don't affect them
9/15/2014 12:27:00 AM
Read and then reread your comment to see just how ignorant you sound.
These issues are bigger than just a portion of the department. These issues affect each and everyone of us at some point and time in our career on this department. We simply cannot allow language to exist in our contract that basically allows for discriminatory practices amongst officers in the same union.
This is what they call "divide and conquer". This is how the city slowly chips away in an attempt to union bust. And with the very same fraternal organization that is supposed to be looking out for our best interests seemingly in bed with the city (I mean why on Gods green earth would they allow some of these proposals to make it to the table!), it's high time that people look past the infamous "retro check" that seems to become the centerpiece of every damn contract.
PS - I hope you're the first detective that loses his grievance for being denied time due.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Keep in mind tat Dean gets FREE Healthcare while on disability until 63 then when he is "retired" he will get FREE healthcare on the 60 and out. DiMaria, Bella also receive FREE healthcare. What do they care if we have to pay? They got theirs.
9/15/2014 01:05:00 AM
++++++++++++++++++
Hey goof I don't like this contract but did YOU pay attention at all to the Sgt's contract and the other supervisory union that sold us out. Then the Fireman?
FOP got this benefit for us and then the other unions all gave it away. The only good thing is that FOP got a stay on it starting for us until July 2017.
Thanks to Jimmy Ade and the Sgt's Ass. For this.
PS the Sgt's voted down their contract and the arbitrator still went against them.
If the FOP went to arbitration on this they lose the first year's 4%. And what are the odds of winning this at arbitration? Slim and none.
GO to arbitration we lose:
4% over the first year.
Retro for that time frame.
Put in City's wellness plan.
Put in the Medical LLC plan.
What could we win?
Little or nothing!
Who should be on your wall of shame?
Mike Shields along with Dougherty and Aguliar.
Sgt Jimmy Ade of the Sgt's assc.
The Lt's and Capt's Assc.
The fire union.
And last but not least Rahm.
Shields, was right on the money.
The contracts, are all fixed, just like everything else, in China !
Anonymous said...
The person who wrote this is unreasonable. So let's say the majority votes no then goes to arbitration. Please explain why you think the arbitrator will give us more.
9/15/2014 02:11:00 AM
Because if we stand in the corner and hold our breath we could turn blue! We went to arbitration before and gained nothing. The Sgt.'s went to arbitration and gained nothing.
We tried to go to arbitration a different time without a tentative agreement and the arbitrator said go back to the table you did not work long enough.
I suggest you go to one of the town hall meetings listen and THEN ask YOUR OWN questions.
Vote YES. Stop the insanity. Move on!
Darth Vader returns to 7 on Tuesday.
How and when do we vote on the contract?
Maybe we can get the flops at flop to bargain us in new pdt's
Hey Rahm no pension talk....period....zilch.....nada....talk to my hand.....I'm all that and a bag of chips.
Exactly how many cruisers are we getting? Will they be sedan style so I can stretch out my legs without my shoes on?
Thanks "My 2¢".
The city doesn't say how mch of an increase the active member health premiums are going up or did I miss that.? Is the current monthly premium around 1.9% of our salary?
@ My Two Cents...
THANK YOU!
This contract proposal is nothing but an artfully prepared word salad courtesy of Rahm Emanuel...
It isn't worth the ink on it's paper.
The president of FOP, Dean C. Angelo , Sr.,
has revealed himself to be a turn-coat for even tendering this very bad joke of a proposal so intentionally ridden with city hall sourced loop holes to the membership.
FOP should be forcibly reconstituted so that it will first and always act in the best interests and survival of the membership both active and retired.
And furthermore, in regard to the intentionally slippery wording and language used in this proposal.... Does Rahm Emanuel employ such same language and stratagems when he is drawing up contracts to heap financial largesse upon the people who make up the North Shore & Gold Coast $25K a plate dinner party circuit? These people who contribute MIGHTILY to keep Rahm Emanuel in office so that he continues to look out for THEIR interests only?
The op-Ed sections of the local rags are FULL of incessant bleating and yammering from Rahm's cocktail party circuit friends about their "love of Chicago" and how we're all "in this together."
Words from people who have none of their blood
spilled on the streets of this city? GTFOH...
(Come work a tour... Maybe some of you will get hurt or even die at the hands of the criminal class you've enabled.)
Such "love" does not extend to middle class, tax paying Chicago and definitely not to first responder Chicago.
The North Shore and Gold Coast $25K a plate party people rather revel in the fact that Rahm has declared war on Chicago's First Responders by destroying their purchasing power, jacking medical insurance rates to effect the much desired pay cuts he didn't get up front and of course trying everything in his power to divest us of a defined pension so that money can be forcibly taken, converted to 401k's and given to the Wall Street money manager friends of Rahm to be sucked on for obscene fees (with kick-backs to Rahm for life for getting the dirty deed done) while NOTHING will be mentioned of the interest earned or the municipal matching funds that Rahm Emanuel is holding hostage in hope that Dean C. Angelo, Sr. can get those stupid coppers to destroy their own pensions in hope of a grudging little piece of the retroactive monies they're actually due.
CUE: The beating of local media war-drums about how "the greedy cops and their cush $100K a year pensions and sweet early retirements" are ruining Chicago's finances.
>Pfffffft!<
Look at the bright, shiny, happy motherfuckers in the society and business pages of both local rags.
Especially the ones who have very firmly attached themselves to all things media and muni-gov.
The perfect fucking cover...
Stealing with both hands and in plain sight while all this beating on The "bad, brutal and eeeeevil" Police is the perfect distraction.
"The Police ARE the problem in Chicago. Once we fix THEM, everything else will fall in place."
Cue the joyful haters who have nothing but a mouthful of shit-talk... "Eff you Gramps... Go away old man... Go take your meds" and other silly such from Rahm's provocateurs.
Police pay and pension is a mere fraction of the money that has been mismanaged and outright stolen from the Chicago Municipal Treasury over the last 25 years.
Yeah... It's all the cops doing. Blame them.
Without this distraction as a cover, maybe the REAL criminals in this would be exposed if only they didn't
rate on the list of Chicago's "Who's Who."
Too rich.
Too powerful.
Too influential.
Contribute too much money
to keep incumbents in office.
Time for what these people
fear the most.
The tax payer taking direct action against them.
Fuck Rahm, fuck de Angelo, and fuck the reps who come to rollcalls to sell this bullshit.
Rahm Emanuel has gotten to Dean Angelo...
'Nuff said...
They already have a vendor for the police vehicles purchased during time of contract. Metro Ford includes payment for undercoating (which no one ever buys). Go to City of Chicago Vendor Contract site and look up contract PO number 26234. Contract is for 55 million dollars, city has payed out 1.8 million so far.
Wake-up. The mostly merit sergeants association tried to sell us the nearly the same nonsense. Had Ade been successful he would be a new merit lieutenant right now! Vote down this proposal. And while you consider the shitty raise being offered consider the raise the department takes from you and gives to the Escalante's, Staples, Pena's, Navarro's, Wysingers, O'Grady's and countless others who cannot pass promotional examination high enough to be promoted in rank order. That is serious money the FOP won't address because the FOP doesn't want to offend "groups". Vote No.
Anonymous said...
Just a question, Are the people who are stating they will vote no and demand a better raise and benefits, the same people that get on here and tell us all how they don't do anything at work ?
So the logic goes, I proud of not doing anything and I want more money for it too?
9/15/2014 07:28:00 AM
No. Unlike you, the ones who vote NO are real coppers who have the brains to see through the BS!
they are trying to divide us,we are all the cops no matter what. stick together and vote NO! don't fall for their bullshit that you'll have retro money by christmas. Fuck that. They can stick 600 squad cars up Rahm's ass. Be strong and vote NO.
There's no time like now to get back to school!
Take advantage of our tuition reimbursement because it will be changed with the new contract. Saint Xavier is one of the best who work with us. Here's a link to the next webinar:
https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/rt/1078141878839262466
Good luck and stay safe!
Anonymous said...
'Arbitrator Benn rendered his rulings regarding our current contract in 2010. Throughout his 150+ page decision, he consistently cited the devastated economy as a primary reason against better percentages for raises. He also made mention that future contract arbitrations couldn't rely on the same reasons if/when the economy improved."
He also added the 5th year to the contract under the assumption that it was needed for the economy to improve. And now look, the 5th year is becoming standard.
9/15/2014 08:48:00 AM
WRONG. Read his ruling/award. The 5th year was put into play because Benn recognized the fact that the history of our contract negotiations always seem to take 2-3 years due to the amount of proposals, counter offers, etc. Benn added the fifth year because he knew it would be time to go right back to the negotiating table if he only decided on a three or four year contract. That is history repeating itself....coppers always the last to get a contract. That's where the 5 years disappears to.
I was all set on voting "yes" to get my retro and my tiny raise. However, reading the educated comments from some of the readers, I have changed my vote. They are hoping we will vote "yes" just for that tiny bit of money they are dangling in front of us. Looking at the whole picture, we will probably get screwed. If we go to arbitration, we might not get a better contract but I highly doubt it would be worse.
Hire a civilian to fly the helicopter , bet he would do it for a five year officers pay .another political hack deal .
An evidence tech does twice the work as a forensic investigator . Why does forensic. Investigator get sergeant pay ? A detective deserves sergeants pay over a forensic investigator .
Vote a big NO Send a message to fop .
Politicians think burger flippers deserve a $6.00 an hour raise and Chicago's Finest Deserve 11% over five years
Less than $3.50 an hour for most coppers .
Keep your retro . Bot No
Duty availability, not pension able ? Do people this dumb, really get to vote?
You are missing the point on duty availability. It has nothing to do with duty availability. It was given to the CPD to replace a benefit that the CFD was given in a prior contract.
Everybody on the CPD gets it whether they are vailable to work or not.if they are in the field or the front and commanders office. Its a name and doesn't apply and has never been applied
Then they should change the name to reflect its true meaning : like car insurance quarterly premium or Catholic School tuition check. !
There are things I would like to be different in the contract but that's not how negotiations work. No one gets everything they want. EVER! My fear is putting this into the hands of an arbitrator. Now That's scary. There is a very strong chance all the things in the contract people are not happy with will happen anyway in arbitration. Will stand to lose a lot more $$$ and benefits. I can almost guarantee the arbitrator will give the city furl by watch anyway because it makes sense. We still get 11% just like CFD, but lose retro and other stuff. Voting yes.
You lost me at FLOP.
If you have valid points, don't be a douchebag
9/15/2014 12:58:00 AM
Awwww!!! Poor wittle baby Got his feathers ruffled because they're making fun of what's supposed to be our union. Look past the playful jabs at the incompetency that is the F(l)OP and try to mentally digest the points the original posters trying to make. You're on here worrying about some little jab someone threw at the mopes at 1412 W. Washington Street?? You should direct at least that much attention to researching just how bad they're trying to screw us, crybaby.
Everyone needs to calm the fuck down.
This is a long process that's not getting solved tonight.
Do your homework, watch the videos, and come up with your own informed decision.
To the officers going through this for the first time...you will see the pressure building the closer we get to the vote.
Dont get intimidated by the mob.
Tell no one how you're voting.
Nothing good will come from it.
This contract was built to give some people just enough reason to vote "NO."
Rahm wants you to vote NO. He knows you'll get nothing if you vote NO and it goes to arbitration.
Good luck
You were warned.
Anonymous said...
You people are insane if u think the corrupted Arb. Benn will give us ONE MORE PENNY than his Machine masters will.
Arbitrator Benn is just one of a pool of arbiters that may be assigned our contract once we vote it down. That's if he still even doing arbitration work for the city. And even if he is, there is a process of elimination where each side strikes arbiters from the list tasked to potentially do the arbitration. It's highly unlikely and that Benn would be called to do yet another contract arbitration. That said, if he WERE assigned the task then we would know for certain that the fix was in.
Guys n gals who have already retired with the 55 and out will still get the free health ins. until Medicare kicks in at 65yoa. regardless of TOJ as long as you had at least 20 years of service. Don't agree with the shit but that what it be. In 2017 coppers who retire with 55 n out will pay 2% towards health care. For young kids OTJ with 12-19 OTJ while they suck up VRI and love their retro check will have reduced pension check and will be paying 25% towards health ins. Believe me kids I'm right. And a guy who is 60 YOA and maxed and still OTJ will be fucked. And BTW Deff Comp will tax the fuck outta you. They take 20% but when tax man comes YOU WILL GET HAMMERED. Be prepared to PAY 12 thousand at taxtime. Been there kids. Don't listen to other fucks-young or old.
What we are against. Inside the ideology of the dumb.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/15/showbiz/django-unchained-actress-detained/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
Can we get a real union? This is absurd. No guidance from those who we pay to do the work for us. Explain the fine line to us, let us know what is at risk. Maybe we can give the FOP a pay cut and use the rest to hire some real lawyers and accountants. We need the professionals, not coppers. But besides that this contract sucks cat penis. And cat penis is horrible to suck. I'm voting no.
for the life of me I don't understand why anybody believes we will gain anything in arbitration. Look what the Sgts lost in arbitration. When has an arbitrator ever benefited us in a contract?.
I understand that getting the retro, when we lost it fair and square by Shields's monumental fuck up, is a tactic; a carrot dangling in front of us for the yes vote. But are you willing to loose 4%raise? That's 10's of thousands of dollars, cumulative, over your career.
Convince me that an arbitrator will do better and I will vote no. Right now it's a YES.
What ever Madigan sez
Don't let this mother fucker of a mayor seem like he is giving the police a great deal, read between the lines, he is going to stick it to you with the health benefit part, he just raised the insurance rates for the retirees big time. I'm still paying nothing because I retired under the 60-65 yr. old act. but when I hit Medicare next year I will have to pay big time for my wife who will need coverage for another 15 months after I turn 65. Like I said, read between the lines on what your part of a hospital stay or office visit will be. Rahm is not a nice man!!!!
Section 3 - Duty Availability Allowance
PLUS THIS IS PENSIONABLE, SO THIS 'TEMPORARY' LOSS ACTUALLY EQUATES TO MUCH MORE THAN APPROX $10K.
###########
Il address this first.... it isn't pensionable for these officers maybe you should read and become familiar with legislation and contract laws in Illinois, it wouldn't be pensionable for them because it was taken away before they were even hired.
All you people bitching about taking it away from new hires don't have a problem taking the 2% raise away from all those 2012-2013 retirees that will lose that raise with the voting no of this contract, talk about being a hypocrite you have no problem taking money from one group and not the other, seriously !!!!
Now if they tried to take away DA from other officers it would be a fight because your DA is pensionable and your benefits can't be diminished or impaired..
DA is proposal is similar to fire dept and tied to their new hires attaining a paramedic license by 42 months..
AND NOW FOR THE LAST ISSUE......
THE REASON THE LANGUAGE WAS PUT IN THE CONTRACT WAS AS A SAFETY VALVE, A MEASURE TO PROTECT YOU.....PLAIN AND SIMPLE NIT THAT HARD TO FIGURE OUT, BUT FOR SOME OFFICERS IT IS APPARENTLY....
IF BY LEGISLATION YOUR CONTRIBUTION GOES UP FROM 9% to say 14% THEN WE HAVE NEW LANGUAGE IN OUR CONTRACT IN WHICH WE CAN RE-OPEN WAGE NEGOTIATIONS, AND DUTY AVAIL AND OTHER FINANCIAL ISSUES.
WE HAVE ALL THE LANGUAGE IN OUR AGREEMENT FIRE, LIEUTENANTS AND SGT. ONLY CAN RE-OPEN WAGES, SO OURS IS BETTER!!!!!!!!
If this language was not in the contract and your contribution was changed you people would bitch, get educated you people can't be this slow!!!!
MC
This is an election year and this proposal is the best this FOP leadership can come up with.This is a Rahm contract not good at all for the membership. For FOP leadership to bring this shit to it's membership.....they simply do not have the memberships best interest in mind.
If you look at this bullshit it is everything Rahm has been trying to get from day one as mayor, We got a 10 percent raise on the last contract,where we know we got fucked.
We were suppose to get more this time so I guess we should be happy with one more percent than last time.
And the kicker in this, bargaining for department vehicles is one of the biggest insults to this membership since Shields.
If you understand Men like Rahm Emanuel this is his way of sending a message to you.....the message being a big FUCK YOU! You take what I give you!
This proposal has too many long term issues, to be given a yes vote!
And after all this membership has suffered in the past months with Sheilds, FOP should know better than back this garbage. I mean what in the Hell are we paying them for?
I'm just saying!
1905
"Anyone from FOP want to address these specific concerns?"
&&&&&&&&&&
What, are you crazy? Of course they don't. They didn't want us dummies catching on to the contractual shenanigans and tomfoolery they and the city are in cahoots over. That's why the whole "we don't negotiate in public" line by FOP, 'Gentlemen's Agreement' be damned. And how about the bullshit line of "we're gonna release a little bit of info to your your unit reps when the time's right"? I didn't hear shit from my unit rep. Neither did every other cop I talked to about this. We were kept in the dark during these negotiations by design.
So no, FOP doesn't want to address these questions. They will however try to sell us all on the retro at tomorrow's noon meeting.
The pension language, the fact that it's even in there, is the deal breaker for me. The question is, if this goes to arbitration, can that language be added by the arbitrator?
please. for those of you don't know what a tier one and two medical facilities are. look it up and see if 2% increase is the only increase in medical related issues. please know what you are voting for. i for one do not want to go to a ghetto medical facility with my family. VOTING NO!
P.S.
*08:34 Amending the state constitution! Thats why we contact our elected officials and tell them to VOTE NO when anything like that is proposed
*There's a reason CFD has a "me too clause" in their contract. It's so they benefit ala the coppers contract!
*arbitration. Ok, say we lose at least it says we objected and did not willfully accept this b.s. ALL THE AMBIGUOUS VAGUE LANGUAGE BENEFITS THE CITY **NOT THE COPPER**
Anonymous said...
Duty availability is pensionable but nobody gets a pension after 3 1/2 years. When he leaves 30 years later his pension, if he gets one, is based on last four years salary plus duty availability of last four years. First 3 1/2 years of duty availability have nothing to do with it.
9/15/2014 07:59:00 AM
And this is why people are dumb.......you are putting money into your pension from your duty availability pay checks too plus what the city is supposed to contribute......so moron, you will be out that money that would/should be going into your pension......unfucking believable!!!!!
Awwww!!! Poor wittle baby Got his feathers ruffled because they're making fun of what's supposed to be our union...
First of all.. FlOP was never, will never ever be a Union. It's a collective bargaining unit made up of city puppets.
FOP IS NOT A UNION.
vote no my brothers fop has been promised numerous meritorous promotions by RAHM if it passes, DEANS son promised a promotion clout alway win,
Blue is blue??? Give me a break you putz
Where ya want it? leg, arm, or neck. I am voting no just to tell that lil prick mayor to fuck off.
Dean im sorry but your a joke. And that's right muther fucker. Blue is Blue you peice of shit over educated back stabbing scab.
Vote yes. Take that retro and **SAVE** it! DO NOT burn it like a West Side lottery winner.
9/15/2014 10:00:00 AM
So if we save that whole $1200 cash for 1 year of retro we will be secure in our futures?
My Lord, I truly work with morons.
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
I will also vote NO....I just don't know why people only see the whopping 11% and say "I will take that!" What is wrong with you people? First, the fact that vehicles are involved in our contract only opens the door for them to make it a budget issue in later contracts. Secondly, If you haven't read about the changes to our medical benefits you better! Thirdly, It seems to me.....our union is not working for us.....case in point, they tell(scare) you by saying if this goes to arbitration you can forget about ANY retro for the first year.....so with that PO's are saying that's a lot of money to be losing.....you know what I say to the union....go Fuck yourself.....if this has to go to arbitration (which it should because it is horse shit) and we receive nothing for that first year...you can bet your sweet ass I will file a class action lawsuit against the union for not doing their job and trust me I WILL get that first years retro.....including overtime! Oh and just an FYI...we don't have to settle for what the firefighters got!
9/15/2014 01:35:00 AM
WOW!! You have to be the dumbest person to ever post on the SCC Blog................I don't remember seeing your name on the last FOP ballot, wait have you ever been to a meeting? Didn't think so!
9/15/2014 09:19:00 AM
Dean????
Darth Vader returns to 7 on Tuesday.
9/15/2014 01:37:00 PM
Do tell
How can officers think this is a fair and good contract? Why is everyone scared of arbitration? How has the last few times of arbitration hurt us? Please I only have about 10 years on the job so anyone with real answers can chime in please do so.
Hard to win anything at arbitration regardings both salary and healthcare. Reason for this is CFD settled their contract and they have the me too clause. Never has the city or arbitration changed those to items to give the CPD more. City also would argue giving CPD more would make the city spend more money on the CFD and CPD supervisors. Will never happen.
Fuck Rahm, fuck de Angelo, and fuck the reps who come to rollcalls to sell this bullshit.
9/15/2014 03:24:00 PM
&&&&&&&&&
Who's de Angelo??? Oh, ok your an Dean Angelo the fop pres. Please, before you comment about contracts, the fop and related information try to pretend you know what your talking about and try to learn who is even the fop prez you're trying to bash... Mush
Dont forget
http://abc7chicago.com/archive/7390669/
SCC,
You forgot to mention the big changes in health care. WTF is Tier 1, Tier2, and Tier 3? The city wants to force everyone to HMO. Us officers should be offered the best health care there is. We work a very stressful job and are more prone serious illnesses than any other profession. Stress kills. We should have better health care. Our health care sucks!
Well, what did you think you would get when 3/4 of the board are retired, two are Sergeants and one is on disability.
Anyone that votes YES for this contract is any idiot! The contract benefits the city and not us. We got fucked on the last contract. It's time to roll the dice again and go to arbitration.
Health Care: When I came on the health care was free.
Then the city wanted "just a buck a payday." The bribe was doubling the uniform allowance from $400 to $800.
The old guys told us, "don't do it, don't give an inch, don't let them get a foot in the door." We called them stupid, "we'll give $24 to get $400, what wrong with you?" The old guys said, "we know these guys, we know how they think. We grew up with 'em."
Those old guys knew about money and the city. Keep the pension out of the contract. Vote no.
Why waste your time. The powers to be are going to do what they want. Piss and moan, elect new people to the FOP- it will make no difference. Take it arbitration, it will make no difference.
Of all the people in the country, you should not it is not legit.
It's total bs , I'll give you retro if you screw all future recruits . F u de angelofdeath. And ballerina
Take away duty disability from second watch and increase amount for the 1st and 3rd watch
How about officers on disability pay into pension and 2% of disability salary for health insurance
How's that not a decrease for new people .
Vote No , it's a sell
No request to end merit promotions or seniority for every inside spot that was created for the clouted .
Whats next, bargaining on what brand of copier paper we might be getting. Don't give me any fucking car I'll walk to my jobs. This is so stupid.
City is saving on education, medical, duty availability, etc. and we are only getting 11% !!!
Vote this shit DOWN!!!
Anonymous said...
You people are insane if u think the corrupted Arb. Benn will give us ONE MORE PENNY than his Machine masters will.
Obamacare is the freight train bearing down on us. Take your kids and get in line behind Dude-you-just-locked-up at County and get a double dose flu shot.
There WILL BE NO PENSION after 2025. The damned thing is funded at 30% going into the largest demographic retirement in the history of our country. It cannot survive at its current state. The Baby Boomers will devour it all. if you are 45 or younger, you will get nothing.
Vote yes. Take that retro and **SAVE** it! DO NOT burn it like a West Side lottery winner.
9/15/2014 10:00:00 AM
How about using a different Arbitrator?
Last contract that went to Arbitrator Benn. We received 10 % during a time which people described the economy as similar as the depression era of 1929. Now, my question is does anyone think the economy is worse than it was back then? An arbitrator GAVE us 10%. So 2014 The FOP went and negotiated 11%???
Holy shit......at least they could've asked for 20% and maybe negotiated around 12 - 15 %.
Voting "NO". At least when the arbitrator gives his report he/she will list everything that both sides argued and then the arbitrators award followed by their reasons.
Ernest T. Brown
Can we get a real union?
CPD has never had a real union.
I don't understand? we are what 8800 strong.
Zero Activity.
Gridlock from traffic stop after traffic stop.
Write paper for everything
Go the utmost mile on a job.
But now. We just sit here and take it.
Doesn't anyone see how suspicious how Dean is trying to persuade you in videos like its a no brainer? I thought his job was to fight for us, the working and retired copper, but somehow I have a bad taste in my mouth why he isn't just saying what they offered and saying to vote yes or no. Instead he is trying to bend our arm and say this is the best thing we can get. It might be true, but I'll take my chances. 2% increases here and there, is 10 times more in the next contract or two. There is NO WAY i am paying 75% of my medical bill, sorry Mr. "Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3" Angelo. Shields F-ED up, but from my estimate Dean is on the same track. My spouse and I are voting no.
Noooooooooooooooooo Wayyyyyyyy
2014 Chicago/ Illinois Minimum Wage: $8.25
2015 Chicago proposed Minimum Wage: $15.00
Percentage changed... 82%
2014 Proposed FOP Raise: 11%
I will vote NO.
Send a message in the NOVEMBER elections ! These signs in front of home "UNION Home" make me want to puke. Unions=Democrats. The logic of this working class people is unreal.
Look at our great USA and see what the democrats do for the working person, SHIT. Unions suck and are nothing but a bunch of crooks.
I wonder if the Daley family will get the body cameras contract coming to the CPD.
Guess Richie' crime family is still going stronger then ever.
But you union people in the trades will voye for his clan for offices.
I'm a no vote, realize that this is probably costing us more than the 11 percent raise. What a bunch of bullshit bleed us till the end.
Some of the old timers tried to tell people that Dean was part of the Nolan team that sold us out on the health insurance many years ago. He never should have been elected president. Very untrustworthy.
this is a bad deal and please vote NO politics aside this is wrong as a group
next we will be barging for inventory bags and toliet paper in the washroom
I am voting, yes, on the contract. Are there things I don't agree with in the contract, certainly. However, the arbitrator will not give us a better contract, or a better raise.
It is almost a sure bet that we will be in the Wellness program, if it goes to arbitration.
The arbitrator by law cannot decide on anything in the contract related to July 1, 2012 to June 30, 2013 if we vote the contract down. The arbitrator cannot look at anything for that year. His decision will be based on what the contract proposals are after June 30, 2013.
This means the 4% total raise for that time period will be taken off of the table for that time period. Can the arbitrator add that 4% to other years of the contract? Yes. Will he? Doubtful.
Removing old CR's from the personal file is improved.
Pension talk is only related to renegotiating the salary IF WE HAVE TO MAKE LARGER CONTRIBUTIONS TO OUR PENSION. The language is not there for renegotiating pension benefits in the contract. That is a constitution issue, period.
AGAIN, I have major issues with the contract, but it cannot be made better by us voting it down.
I want nothing more than to put FOP and City Hall in there place. I have numerous fantasies about how that can be done. However, voting no to this contract will only make a bad contract worse. When that happens, the people who voted the contract down will be making a new round of accusation against the FOP, City Hall or the arbitrator. The fact is we will only have ourselves to blame for a no vote that results in an EVEN WORSE contract.
Sadly, the solution has to come with improving the next contract. This one will only get worse.
Voting no. Went back and forth. Researched . Bad deal. VOTING NO
You guys keep saying "the way it used to be"
Before I came on I was a union tradesman, we had full medical,dental,vision,prescription,COLA increases
Ask a tradesman now what they get
The world has changed my friends, and its been changing for decades
I'm voting yes, because as a guy who struck to support the union and walked away with LESS I learned a hard lesson
It's not about the money.. Thats OK. Its about benefits.... Wake the fuck up people
Vote No
City has money to pay special district commanders deputy chief pay , inspectors captains pay , created an xo rank at captains pay , what does an xo do , negotiate sergeants pay for helicopter pilots , why ? Hire a civilian to fly the helicopter for less pay and put the helicopter police in a beat car ,
How many of us were passed over on sergeants test by merit promotions , no request to end merit , political promotions .
Let city keep retro , vote no , write reports for every crime , arrest traffic violators with no insurance ,driver license , make late arrests or tvb , you will make up that retro in a few months . Vote no .
2014 Chicago/ Illinois Minimum Wage: $8.25
2015 Chicago proposed Minimum Wage: $15.00
Percentage changed... 82%
2014 Proposed FOP Raise: 11%
I will vote NO.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&
You make over 80k minimum a year. Odds are you do absolutely nothing to deserve even half of that. There are a lot of people out there who have a worse job than us, with worse conditions and hours with back breaking work who make a fraction of what we get. We (cops) think we have the most dangerous job in the world. Give me a break. Cops want to feel so special and dramatic all the time. Driving the wagon, dodging jobs, working the rush st detail or shuffling papers inside is far from dangerous. Stop pretending, I do this job and work.. Can it be dangerous? Sure. But any job can be dangerous. We make a lot of money for not doing much. Comparing 8.25 and over 80k is like apples and oranges. I will be voting yes. I have advised all in my district to do the same
Hey 9:11 pm you say vote no because we got fuked on the last contract so you want to go to arbitration so we can get fuked again since that was settled in arbitration. Who's the idiot
Lets be honest here. Most of us who are on this job probably would not be able to land a job paying anything like we make here. I'm not sticking up for the city believe me. But it's no different in the private sector. Everyday you see workers on strike because of pay and benefits. Most jobs now you don't even get any kind of pension at all. Yes we would like to have it all but it just doesn't work that way. It's always going to be give and take. Were still doing pretty damn good. When the next contract comes up then it's time to fight again and so on and so on. At least this contract that was agreed on. With an arbitrator there is no agreeing you get what he gives you like it or not. Let common sense rule.
City want a $6.00 raise for minimum wage workers by next year and a $3.50 raise for police officers over 5 years .
Increase in taxes and cost to raise minimum wage will cost every citizen
Only way to vote is No .
we n eed real labor attorneys, our union sucks and is crooked, dean sux, this contract sux, democrats suck.
".. Can it be dangerous? Sure. But any job can be dangerous."
Don't know many Actuaries carrying AIDS corpses thru rat infested hallways.GFY,Angelo Shill
You make over 80k minimum a year. Odds are you do absolutely nothing to deserve even half of that. There are a lot of people out there who have a worse job than us, with worse conditions and hours with back breaking work who make a fraction of what we get. We (cops) think we have the most dangerous job in the world. Give me a break. Cops want to feel so special and dramatic all the time. Driving the wagon, dodging jobs, working the rush st detail or shuffling papers inside is far from dangerous. Stop pretending, I do this job and work.. Can it be dangerous? Sure. But any job can be dangerous. We make a lot of money for not doing much. Comparing 8.25 and over 80k is like apples and oranges. I will be voting yes. I have advised all in my district to do the same
9/16/2014 09:22:00 AM
We deal with the public all day, every day. We read people pretty well. Nice try, but you aren't the police, so stop trying to push Rahm's agenda, little City Hall troll.
Boston PD awarded 25.4% over 6 years by arbitrator in 2013. Philadelphia PD awarded 9% over 3 years by arbitrator. Look this up on the internet. Why isn't this being talked about??
Contract will pass , many have day jobs , work inside , no swiping in , no wrestling with the animals , some on the street do as little as possible , tactical , foot patrols sure they make arrests but come in late , leave early , none swipe in or out . Narcotics , vice , helicopter , crime lab , detective division will all vote yes .
Poor beat guy working a full shift , filthy broken down cars will vote no ,but contract will pass
Contract screws new coppers , no duty availability , old timers retired taking a big hit for insurance
Guess what we will all retire one day and get screwed , working mid nights , afternoons , yep you deserve a real shift differential that is pensionable , but will never get it , probably more coppers on days than the mopes in patrol on nights . Union protects the connected .
With an arbitrator there is no agreeing you get what he gives you like it or not. Let common sense rule.
9/16/2014 10:34:00 AM
With one exception:
No arbitrator has the authority to force employees to give up their right to sue the city for constitutional pension violations. Not a chance.
IF an arbiter sold out to the city (as they always do) in means WE cannot be held liable for the decisions he makes in relation to our status as litigants against the city.
Means if an arbiter WERE to attempt to force the reopened into the contract WE still have a right to sue the city and state.
Agreeing to arbitration does NOT mean an arbiter has the authority to remove your right to litigate a violation of the constitution.
THAT will never stand up in court in favor of the city.
if YOU dolts vote yes then your chances of surviving any court challenge to your pension rights drop to nill.
Don't be stupid.
Don't give this rat fuck Emanuel the pension out he wants.
Don't fuck yourselves and all retirees into slavery while the rat fuck Emanuel laughs at how stupid you were and that you gave it all away because you're stupid.
I do this job and work.. Can it be dangerous? Sure. But any job can be dangerous.
*****
You're no fucking cop shithead.... if you were you'd know how wrong you are.
I have advised all in my district to do the same
9/16/2014 09:22:00 AM
*****
and you're fucking WHO to dictate this edit shithead?
Give me a fucking break... you're a joke on all levels kid.
Pension talk is only related to renegotiating the salary IF WE HAVE TO MAKE LARGER CONTRIBUTIONS TO OUR PENSION. The language is not there for renegotiating pension benefits in the contract. That is a constitution issue, period.
*********
Shows how little you and those you "advise" really understand about the legal system.
Once again, for the truly stupid:
In this contract, you are AGREEING & BEING BOUND TO:
"Bargaining" as your choice of recourse when the legislature violates the pension clause. And if "bargaining" fails you are AGREEING & BEING BOUND TO going back to an arbiter to make your decision for you.
You just don't understand what that means do you?
It means WHEN the legislature fucks you and your "union" brings a suit (although it now appears they have no intention of fighting pension violations any more now that they're in bed with Emanuel) the city's response to your complaint will be:
THEY AGREED TO BARGAIN AND ARBITRATE WHEN THE LEGISLATURE VIOLATED THEIR RIGHTS. THEY NOW ARE BOUND BY CONTRACT TO RESOLVE THIS ISSUE AS THEY AGREED TO IN THE CONTRACT AND THEREFORE HAVE NO RECOURSE TO SUE FOR SOMETHING THEY'VE ALREADY AGREED TO IN THIS CONTRACT.
And for you brainiacs out there, what this does is set PRECEDENCE that the pension clause CAN be violated and benefits CAN BE DIMINISHED.
It means BENEFITS CAN BE DIMINISHED, that is ALL that will matter in future litigation. BENEFITS CAN BE DIMINISHED, regardless of HOW it happened they were STILL diminished.
THAT will be the argument going forward in all future pension litigation, not WHY it was able to be diminished but that it WAS diminished.
All future questions will be: Can benefits be diminished by the legislature.
All plaintiffs will have on their side is : hey they AGREED to let it happen.
And the respondents reply will then be:
There is NO protection in the law to allow or disallow a party to either agree or disagree to a violation of the pension clause, therefore no right exists.
Once pension benefits have been diminished that fact is forever written in stone and cannot be undone.
THIS is the out they are looking for..... to find SOME way to stop litigation against pension diminishment that puts the issue in a new light that they can take advantage of and the SCOIL can give them their out on.
Right now, there IS no out. You vote YES on this contract and you gave Emanuel, the legislature AND the SCOIL the out they're seeking to fuck us all out of our pensions for the sake of political cash to give away to those who will vote for them.
Don't be fucking idiots.
f this language was not in the contract and your contribution was changed you people would bitch, get educated you people can't be this slow!!!!
MC
9/15/2014 06:53:00 PM
You wanna see slow? Take a look in the mirror numbnutz.
"Get educated".... how about YOU getting educated on pension law and SCOIL rulings on pension law moron?
The issue of raising pension contributions has already been litigated and there are already several rulings that come to the same conclusion:
INCREASING PENSION CONTRIBUTIONS IS A DIMINISHMENT OF BENEFITS BY CHANGING THE CALCULATION USED TO ARRIVE AT THAT BENEFIT.
It means paying MORE for the same benefit IS a diminishment of the benefit dipshit.
"Get educated" yourself before making a fool of yourself in public, idiot.
10:35 pm , could our union be in bed with city hall?
Vote No take a chance with an arbitrator .
My Two Cents said...
A few quick points why I and everyone I know will be voting NO. This is referencing the literature FLOP posted on their website:
Section 2 - Wages, Section D. "Pension Legislation Reopener":
says the Lodge "can" reopen the Agreement and renegotiate salary, percentage increases and duty availability pay. Doesn't say they "WILL" or that they "HAVE TO". If/when we wind up exceeding 9% of our pay for our pension, watch for them (FLOP) to say something along the lines of "the city ain't gonna budge and it ain't worth fighting/going to arbitration".
THE PENSION IS A STATE ISSUE AND SHOULD NOT BE INCLUDED IN ANYTHING RELATED TO THE CITY / OUR CONTRACT.
What it means is that in the event that our contributions to the pension were to go up for any reason, we can reopen wages also to hopefully compensate for the pension fund increase. Don't read too much into that clause.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Voting no. Went back and forth. Researched . Bad deal. VOTING NO
9/16/2014 01:32:00 AM
Then what? Get a worse deal from arbitrator? Chances of a better deal from arbitrator are slim. Slimmer with this contract than at any other time. Off the bat, go to arbitration and forget about ANY raise for 2012, go to arbitration and forget all about that 2%. 2012 will not be subject to arbitration, City already won that one. That we got 2% is astounding to me.
Don't believe me? Vote NO and see what happens.
I could be wrong now, but I don't think so!
'Cause there's a jungle out there.
Go to arbitration to get a true itemized billing of what the city wants flop to sell the membership out for instead of this edited/redacted/whole passages/key words and phrases bullshit that's been floating around.
Somebody raised an interesting point on another thread...
Funny how when the department is going to fuck a copper on paper, the language is pretty clear and unambiguous...
Flop colluding with the city to walk Policemen backwards in wages and purchasing power (in spite of a "booming" economy) employs slippery syntax and weasel words that mean nothing close to the commonly accepted usage and meaning of the layman.
"Why are you guys mad? It's good contract written in "lawyerese."
There go that bullshit again...
The clowns who pulled up in this burning shit-wagon of a contract and were proudly blowing the fucking horn are now running for their lives to get as far from the flames as they can...
They don't want it to go to arbitration because the treachery will be spelled out for all to see.
Times New Roman.
12 point font...
Whither thus?
A true bill from the arbitrator?
A city hall shiv between the shoulder blades delivered by the bargaining unit?
Money is always nice.
Benefits are even better.
Actually finding out how turncoats
so easily gave the enemy your back?
Hell... Rahm wants to jump the minimum wage a greater percentage than the last 4 or 5 contracts combined.
The great pimp-walk backwards to equality huh?
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