Thursday, September 25, 2014

Imagine, If You Will....

Play along for a minute. We have no idea if this could happen, but going over the comments as we do every day, we began to formulate a scenario. Someone far smarter than we are might tell us if this is a possibility:
  • The Contract passes;
  • the city decides (along with Springfield) to raise the pension contribution from 9+% to 12%
  • the FOP exercises the clause in the Contract to request reopening of the wage schedule;
  • the city, of course, says "No." 
Does anyone think that the city would even think of saying yes? Please report to Random Drug immediately. Continuing:
  • the Lodge files for arbitration or whatever;
  • the city lawyers turn to Springfield with the argument that as the FOP has exercised a Contractual Clause in regard to the Pension, the Pension has now ceased to be regulated by State Law and is now in the realm of a Contractual Agreement. Oops.
Plausible? Possible? Probable? Again, these are ramblings over a pizza, beer and darts. We aren't lawyers or labor negotiators. But we can smell bullshit and spot a different perspective once in a while. With a hundred-plus years of police experience and a few centuries of Chicago living under our belts, we know better than to trust the Machine to ever play fair.

Opinions?

Labels:

127 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Put nothing past the sneaky pieces of shit that put this thing together. They are thinking 5 moves down the road and hoping you are only looking at that retro.

9/25/2014 12:13:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And if the Contract doesn't pass?

9/25/2014 12:20:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Stupid argument!!! What about the healthcare negotiations that have gone on for at least the last decade considering the supreme court decision this year that healthcare is part of the pension?

Stop bumping the pipe!

And fanning the discontent from the entitlement generation.

9/25/2014 12:22:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Randon drug test isn't so random. Anyone who thinks the random drug test is random....needs to report to random drug for testing!

Can you say class action lawsuit?

9/25/2014 12:24:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://law.hofstra.edu/pdf/Academics/Journals/LaborAndEmploymentLawJournal/labor_vol28no2_Secunda_Final.pdf

9/25/2014 12:24:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I won't point out that I wrote a comment about not allowing them to insert pension language in the contract and that, sometime last summer during the heat of the pension 'crisis' (per the media), it was reported that we are covered by the Constitution and our benefits are protected AS LONG AS THE PENSION ISN'T ADDRESSED IN THE CONTRACT.
Oh, wait...

9/25/2014 12:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As jaded as my thoughts might be, I don't think the amount that is contributed into the pension opens up the door to pension benefits. Otherwise, any contributions noted in contracts between FOP and the city would be the same thing. When the discussion is about pensions under state law, they speak to the benefits of the pension.

9/25/2014 12:40:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting days, on the way. I think Obama himself will step in and force a solution. He is a trustworthy third party, and all would agree to whatever soluition he proposes.

9/25/2014 12:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Pension language in the proposal is why I voted no.
It serves us no purpose anyway, because the city will NEVER give us anything unless forced to do so.

9/25/2014 12:52:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You better vote no. Any contract for service you enter into now has a no sue/ arbitration clause. Buy a car, anything like that. You are basically giving up your right to sue. That's why the rush. Don't be suckered by retro. Stealing your pension is the goal. Vote NO!

9/25/2014 01:20:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Could it happen? If it means politicians screwing people over, it will most certainly happen.

9/25/2014 01:28:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Consider two things.

1. A lot of you guys/gals have been putting in the o/t and probably haven't noticed so much the price increases going on.

Beef prices up 15~21%, same with pork. Damn lemons up 35%, peaches 17% and the list goes on..check it out.

http://www.bls.gov/ro3/apmw.htm

Calif. is out major supplier of produce and the drought just keeps going.

2. Rahm's brother, the major influence on Obamacare thinks you and your love ones shouldn't live past 75 because those are shitty years anyway.

Obamacare Architect Says Society Would Be Better Off If People Died At 75

Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, brother of Rahm Emanuel, says that society would be far better off if people quit trying to live past age 75. His new article entitled “Why I Hope To Die At 75” has the following very creepy subtitle: “An argument that society and families—and you - will be better off if nature takes its course swiftly and promptly”. In the article, Emanuel forcefully argues that the quality of life for most people is significantly diminished past the age of 75 and that once we get to that age we should refuse any more medical care that will extend our lifespans. This is quite chilling to read, considering the fact that this is coming from one of the key architects of Obamacare. Of course he never uses the term “death panels” in his article, but that is obviously what Emanuel would want in a perfect world. To Emanuel, it is inefficient to waste medical resources on those that do not have a high “quality of life”. So he says that “75 is a pretty good age to aim to stop”.


more : http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-24/obamacare-architect-says-society-would-be-better-if-people-only-lived-age-75

So how about your healthcare plan just being shut off when you hit 75 eh? That's these guys mindset.

9/25/2014 01:49:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This contract is all gives and 1 take.
They are completely basing this contract on the retro check, as the only give. why didn't we try for more vacation days, more personal days, more bf days. All the retro we deserve, not just some!
Why didn't we say the firemen settled for too little, and they can make it up next contract.
We are worth more than 11% for 5 fucking years!
This is not greed! This is way lower than cost of living adjustments.
We should have had some gains in the contract, we have in the past!
This contract sucks the big one!
WE are opening doors for our future that should not be opened! all for a retro check!

Trust me Rahm wants this to be settled before election, and it can be without arbitration!!!!

He also is scared to death what the city might have to give up if it goes to arbitration!!!

Look at Boston! They never expected the arbitrator to go so heavily pro police!!

We are doing so much more with less police on the streets! The arbitrator would consider this!

Rahm said he would hire 1000 more police and lied with his play on words!

And we have carried the slack!!1

An arbitrator may say police shouldn't have to work six out of seven days a week to make ends meet!

Sorry to ramble but this all needs to be said!

The gives we are giving up such as duty availability for new hires, will be bargaining chips for the cities next contract!

They can offer duty availability back to the original state next contract for a gain! And get all those new hires votes!!!
They can offer no two tier hospitals for a gain for them!

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU GIVE UP, these were gains in the past!!!

All for a retro check we should have received in the first place, one we deserved for working our asses off for this city while they let this contract linger for so long!!!

That money should already have been in our pockets!!!

VOTE NO THIS CONTRACT IS AN INSULT!!!!

9/25/2014 01:50:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hey guys.. the pension is 30 percent funded. we need to pay more. Yes i know.. we didnt cause this. Yes politicians did but if we want it in the future we are gonna have to do something to keep it. Ill grit my teeth and pay more to keep it. it sucks but pouting about it and pointing fingers at past politicians will do nothing except run our pension dry. We need increased contributions, if you think we will have a pension in 10 years without increased contributions or pension reform then get yourself checked for mental illness. needs to be reformed and needs more money. if we stay hard headed and stick with the we didnt cause it argument then we will have nothing. youre right we didnt cause it.. now guess what, nothing has changed since we figured that out.. the pension system is still broke. telling the public its not our fault wont magically get it funded.. the end. pay more if you want it.. if not vote for a 401k type system

9/25/2014 02:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This "ploy", "plot", "conspiracy", etc., still CANNOT circumvent the Illinois constitution. The Illinois Supreme court ruled 9-0, that the pension benefits cannot be reduced, diminished, eliminated, etc.

Can a state constitutional convention be called to change things? Yes. Will this happen? Probably not. Such an undertaking would be a huge process.

I know as cops we are suspicious of everything and trust no one, but common on now, we are beginning to sound like those "street lawyers" we detest.

Opening up salary talks is not the same as rewriting the State Constitution. Nonetheless, even if the Almighty told us that as things stand our pension benefits are secure, someone would call, bullshit, and refer to someone he/she knows who said, "They all want to fuck us."

This is not a back door to changing our pension benefits!


I spent years dealing with public pensions in the private sector. Renegotiating salaries due to increased employee pension contributions will not trigger any pension benefits change.

But what fuck, cops will believe whatever they want and never want to be confused by the facts.

9/25/2014 02:16:00 AM  
Blogger I Fart In Your General Direction said...

Possible or not, any language to do with our pension should NOT be a part of the collective bargaining process.

Assuming this "reopener" in no way jeopardizes our pension language (as our labor attorneys have promised), and only provides us with an option to seek more money when our contribution percentage goes up, it still sets a dangerous precedent:

It projects the notion that FLOP is willing to entertain the idea of putting a job benefit that's protected (for now, anyway) by state constitution on the bargaining table. What's to stop the city's labor attorneys from floating some juicy proposal(s) in exchange for FLOP agreeing to a diminished pension in future contract negotiations?

If they were so concerned about securing us an option to recoup increased pension contributions, why didn't FLOP fight for higher wage percentages once the city pared down our initial request (20%, I believe)? Cite the performance of the stock market and the overall economy as justification. Same goes for comparable wages awarded to other law enforcement agencies across the nation. We're in much better shape to demand more now than last time at the table.

Did FLOP cite past arbiters decisions regarding the City being unable to cry poor regarding wage increases as the economy recovered?

Did FLOP tender an itemized list of pet projects proposed and/or undertaken by the Daley and Emanuel administrations as ammunition in the fight for better wages? Reference the 100s of millions for anything BUT first responders.

How about FLOP propose a change in the language as to how TIF monies can be applied and demand the City's required $600 million pension downstroke be tendered immediately as opposed to Tiny Dancer delaying it another year? And then demand a percentage of TIF monies be used regularly to maintain funding per actuarial recommendations.

So, yes, "Imagine If You Will", belonging to a fraternal organization that wasn't in bed with the city and actually fought tooth and nail for the betterment of its membership. And then I woke up...

I imagine that Dean and the boys over on Washington have yet to hit full damage control mode as more and more their shortcomings and unprofessionalism (or worse) regarding this contract negotiation process surfaces.

9/25/2014 02:22:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Illinois Constitution is the highest law in the state. No law, or contract can be written, or agreed to that contradicts the constitution.

The Illinois supreme court has ruled against the changes the legislature tried passing on the pensions this past summer.

9/25/2014 02:33:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

D.A. just doesn't stop. He says there are "advantages" of wearing body cameras and placing them on Chicago Cops. This man is so removed from his membership (and reality) its f--king unreal! Only a non-active or a retired cop who's not on the street for 8 1/2 hours a day, would even fathom wearing a camera during their entire shift. "Dean Angelo, president of Fraternal Order of Police Lodge 7, the union representing Chicago police officers, said he sees advantages with body cameras, particularly in disproving unfair allegations against officers." This guy should just join the mayor's re-election committee because his nose is so high up his butt. Surprised he didn't try to negotiate us being forced to wear body cameras in order to get an extra .15% percent! UNBELIEVABLE. I got a suggestion, why doesn't he wear one of those cameras in his closed door meetings with the mayor's people discussing how he is selling out his membership with a smile on his face. He keeps telling you to vote, "YES, YES, YES". Sorry Dean, we refuse to be sheep, while we eat bread and butter, and you eat steak and lobster.

Here is link:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-body-cameras-police-met-20140915-story.html#page=1

9/25/2014 05:00:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Very stupid argument!!!!! The pension will never cease to be under state control dummy because its a constitutional issue. Where the hell do these dum dums come up with this?

9/25/2014 05:06:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Opinions?

Kinda funny this...

Rahm (Moneysnatcheris Horribilis) and McCarthy (Mookisapiens Sapiens) have been touting crime is down in Chicago to levels unheard of since Pere Marquette and Louis Jolliet paddled through town three and a half centuries ago...

OK then ya greedy motherfuckers, how about assuaging a Policeman's financial pain as a reward?

All manner of stuff spilling out of the top floor windows of the state and national capitols about "improving economy, jobs being created, more Americans are 'working' now" and other some such...

In view of all this "good news" why are motherfuckers STILL so mind-locked on insisting Chicago Policemen being walked backwards financially?

Picking and choosing...
Trying to have it both ways?

Ohhhhh!
Crime is down solely through the effort of the smartest mayor and police superintendent impersonator ever?

>Snicker!<

We haven't seen these two clowns out in the field trying to wrangle a naked and pregnant off her meds She-Yeti of nearly 400 pounds or have a car full of fast twitch m/fers pull up next to to them at a light and one of them breaks discipline and gives the "Please stop us cuz we ridin' dirty as fuck" look.

Rahm has GOT to be hating the fact that Boston PD was given a 26% plus arbitration award...

We wonder how a side by side comparison of pertinent points with the garbage Rahm/fop is offering CPD would look?

We wager the mayor of Boston isn't sitting on a $2 Billion slush fund either...

9/25/2014 05:13:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So how about your healthcare plan just being shut off when you hit 75 eh? That's these guys mindset.

9/25/2014 01:49:00 AM


Still think the idea of "death panels" was just a figment of the other party's imagination? These elitists believe they are above us all.

There is no "We the people" with them. WE are cattle that THEY manage.

9/25/2014 05:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The recent Kanerva supreme court decision, which found that state employees health care costs couldn't be increased, due to the pension protection clause, doesn't apply to City of Chicago employees who weren't covered by the lawsuit. The Korshak/ Underwood case, is in the federal court system, where attorney Krislov just filed a motion to prevent further cost increases to our retirees. This case is far from over, and will have major implications, as to the strength of the pension protection clause. Send Mr Krislov a contribution, if you can. This case, is far from over.

9/25/2014 05:49:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To 9/25/0216AM If you are so good at contract negotiation why don't you tell us who you are.

9/25/2014 06:09:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

02:08am>i got news for you even if we pay 12% per check that will never fund our pensions, the city needs to start doing its part!

9/25/2014 06:56:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The state supreme court, has not yet ruled on the state employees lawsuit seeking protection of their pension benefits from being diminished, by the state. No one has ever argued that employees couldn't voluntarily diminish their benefits, via a negotiated agreement with their employer. Be very afraid of the language, in this contract.

9/25/2014 07:01:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Randon drug test isn't so random. Anyone who thinks the random drug test is random....needs to report to random drug for testing!

Can you say class action lawsuit?

9/25/2014 12:24:00 AM

I'm retired and therfore am disregarding the class action lawsuit but as far as the "random" part? During a time when we actually had 13K people on the job, I was "random" tested 3 times within a months time period. I was told it was randomly drawn from members SS #'s. Anyone care to figure the odds on that be on the legit. If it was, I should have hit the lottery at least a couple of times by now.

9/25/2014 07:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I won't even take a chance that this could happen, because I know the City would do it in a second. Vote no the this and many other reasons.

9/25/2014 07:22:00 AM  
Blogger The Keesing Bandit said...

I haven't trusted Rahm since he snapped me with a wet towel at the bathhouse.

There is no reason to trust him now.

Now, kees me you fool!!!!

9/25/2014 07:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
" . . .
Can a state constitutional convention be called to change things? Yes. Will this happen? Probably not. Such an undertaking would be a huge process.
. . . "
9/25/2014 02:16:00 AM
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

The state constitution can only be opened up once every twenty years.
The point to open the state constitution must be voted on in a general election.
Quinn tried to get the state constitution opened several years ago. (4 or 5)
The voters in the state overwhelmingly voted NO to opening the state constitution.
The reason is that, once it is open then the rat ass politicians in Springfield can have a field day with ANY part of the state constitution not just the pension clause.
The voters did not want those rats to change anything in the constitution to benefit themselves! (which we all know they would have)

9/25/2014 07:29:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The pension SHOULD NOT be part of the collective barginning.
Once you add anything regarding your pension into a contract, you open the door for many other pension changes down the line.

Vote NO

9/25/2014 07:31:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Everyone knows that if the City added in a contract that they would research RESIDENCY that an arbitrator could say its a contract issue.

Then the fake judge could launch the item from a contract and nobody could say a damn thing.

But people who still have trouble filling out a watch bid with 4 boxes will seal this coffin shut and cost us the pension in the future.

9/25/2014 07:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Vote Yes if you think Rahm has your best interest at heart.

Vote No if you feel Rahm doesn't have your best interest at heart.

It's that simple.

No, No, No please, as Rahm drives his Mercedes truck around his legal address in DC but his residency address is in a crawl space unfit for human habitation in Chicago.

9/25/2014 07:40:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm not sure if most people understand what is going on here. Whether the unit reps vote or not it is only an "advisory" vote for the FOP to either approve or disapprove the contract. They can do whatever they want even if the vote was no. Read the damn by laws.

It was put in the By-laws to help the Board of Directors get a feel of where it would go. If Dean had a clue he would have seen that there was a problem with the Unit Reps and could have gone back to the drawing board. Better than the Board voting on a contract that gets voted down.

9/25/2014 07:43:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What if you or your family gets really sick !! The tiered hospital that's going to cost you that 25 percent is going to ruin you and your family at 25 percent. Let's not negotiate keep the medical the way it is. The way it's figured the machine is making a percent or two and not giving up anything with this shitty contract.

9/25/2014 07:46:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Randon drug test isn't so random. Anyone who thinks the random drug test is random....needs to report to random drug for testing!

Can you say class action lawsuit?

9/25/2014 12:24:00 AM

I'm in on a class action lawsuit? With over 20 years on I was going down twice a month. When I beefed to the supervisor that something doesn't seem right with the process, I then got called down 2 more times that month. Who owns the testing company that is making all the money for BS tests? If I haven't taken drugs in the first 20 years of my career do we actually think I would start taking them now? If I haven't taken drugs two weeks ago, why would you test me two weeks later?

9/25/2014 07:50:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tiny dancer wants to give us an 11% raise over 5 years but wants to give burger flippers a 100% raise and double what minimum wage is.No thanks. I vote NO.

9/25/2014 07:56:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
hey guys.. the pension is 30 percent funded. we need to pay more. Yes i know.. we didnt cause this. Yes politicians did but if we want it in the future we are gonna have to do something to keep it. Ill grit my teeth and pay more to keep it. it sucks but pouting about it and pointing fingers at past politicians will do nothing except run our pension dry. We need increased contributions, if you think we will have a pension in 10 years without increased contributions or pension reform then get yourself checked for mental illness. needs to be reformed and needs more money. if we stay hard headed and stick with the we didnt cause it argument then we will have nothing. youre right we didnt cause it.. now guess what, nothing has changed since we figured that out.. the pension system is still broke. telling the public its not our fault wont magically get it funded.. the end. pay more if you want it.. if not vote for a 401k type system

9/25/2014 02:08:00 AM

No,we don't have to pay more.

The city does. The money has always been there.

9/25/2014 07:56:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If this contract passes, it would prove that Obama was right when he said,"The Police acted stupidly".

9/25/2014 07:58:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
The Illinois Constitution is the highest law in the state. No law, or contract can be written, or agreed to that contradicts the constitution.

The Illinois supreme court has ruled against the changes the legislature tried passing on the pensions this past summer.

9/25/2014 02:33:00 AM

Th ISC also ruled that a box of clothing in a basement constitutes residency.

9/25/2014 08:01:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is exactly why I'm voting NO.

9/25/2014 08:02:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Opening up salary talks is not the same as rewriting the State Constitution. Nonetheless, even if the Almighty told us that as things stand our pension benefits are secure, someone would call, bullshit, and refer to someone he/she knows who said, "They all want to fuck us."

This is not a back door to changing our pension benefits!


I spent years dealing with public pensions in the private sector. Renegotiating salaries due to increased employee pension contributions will not trigger any pension benefits change.

But what fuck, cops will believe whatever they want and never want to be confused by the facts.

9/25/2014 02:16:00 AM

Maybe that's because the city has always tried to fuck us over and will never stop until forced to.

Why put ANY pension language in the contract? Who benefits from it?

9/25/2014 08:04:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Would we not have to agree to the 9 to 12% raise in pension contributions?

9/25/2014 08:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The city already diminished our benefits by increasing health care costs for retirees. That's a violation of Illinois constitution. But they do it and then say take us to court. Why the hell shouldn't we strike? The city violates the law and it's to be hashed out in court? If the city isn't going to play by the rules why the hell are we? Time to grow some balls and walk the picket lines. Then we'll see results! The firefighters did it and it worked and it's the only hope we've got. The city thinks we're going to keep bending over and have no recourse. I'm not a retiree but will be some day and fear what will be left of the benefits I was promised when I signed up for this carnival ride.

9/25/2014 08:10:00 AM  
Blogger Barney Fife said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
You better vote no. Any contract for service you enter into now has a no sue/ arbitration clause. Buy a car, anything like that. You are basically giving up your right to sue. That's why the rush. Don't be suckered by retro. Stealing your pension is the goal. Vote NO!

---

How about you explain this a little bit? You can sue for breach of ANY contract. What the hell are you talking about?

9/25/2014 08:13:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That is the most understandable reason NOT to vote for this contract. Damn I wish I could vote NO more than once! Welcome to the garden of Eden simply take a small bite from this apple which is rotten to the core.

9/25/2014 08:22:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If that scenario played out, and there's an excellent chance it will, Rahm would be giggling like a child as he told FOP and us to fuck off.
Rahm despises us and has no intention of honoring our pensions as they currently stand. In fact he is Hell bent on diminishing our pensions as much as he can. That's part of the "tough choices" he's always spouting off about.

9/25/2014 08:24:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
As jaded as my thoughts might be, I don't think the amount that is contributed into the pension opens up the door to pension benefits. Otherwise, any contributions noted in contracts between FOP and the city would be the same thing. When the discussion is about pensions under state law, they speak to the benefits of the pension.

9/25/2014 12:40:00 AM

Maybe reading up on SCOIL decisions regarding pension law is what you and everyone else here who thinks they know what they're talking about is in order.

"They" speak to the benefits of the pension is where you're wrong.

What "they" have clearly established (they being the SCOIL) is that the CALCULATIONS used to arrive at that benefit cannot be changed either as that results in a diminish end of the benefit.

For you who still don't understand, your benefit is actually this:

contribute 9% of your gross to your pension fund, reach a minimum of 50 with a minimum of 20 years service and receive the minimum level of pension equalling 50%.

Your age is protected, your years of service is protected and your percentage is protected. None of these calculations can be changed by the legislature unless AGREED upon and not taken to court.

Where we LOSE in this contract is we would be AGREEING in a binding contract to bargain or accept an arbiters decision as to how much our currently protected contribution would be.

THAT is what the city's argument would be if we attempted to sue.

The Legislature can change your pension any time they want. It's whether or not your FOP stops it by going to court.

You FOP is agreeing in this contract not to go to court, that means YOU can sue when your share goes up to 12% or more because your Union LET the city off the hook.

After this contract, protected pension calculations are forever in the realm of bargaining and can be adjusted against you every contract from that point on, by an arbiter.

Damage may have already been done with the sergeant and lieutenants selling out by stupidity.

This was like the plan all along, shields deliberately didn't send the letter so Emanuel could con the smaller unions with members who dream of being promoted off fucking over others into giving up their pension rights.

You may already be fucked, which is why the FOP was done last, to use the threat of other contracts alreadiy giving up their rights against you in bargaining.

A clear message must be sent and you MUST make sure your FOP puts IN WRITING to the arbiter that the membership does NOT want pension language in the contract.

At least that way you stand a chance in court of not being dismissed for agreeing to bargaining for your pension because no arbiter has the authority to force pension issues out of protection.

You MUST ensure the contract is voted down, and that the membership demands pension language be removed.

THIS is the single goal of Emanuel in thise contracts.

THIS is why Emanuel stalled the mandatory funding.

Emanuel doesn't have to raise taxes to pay back what's been stolen from you, you people are going to be paying the 550 million owed in back pension payments yourself when Emanuel raises your share to 12% while he laughs at how stupid you are.

As a matter of fact, he can jack up your share to any number he wants and never have to pay another dime in pension money again as you'll be paying it all yourself, regardless of the fact that pension is legally compensation tomorrow for work done today.

He's gonna get OUT of the pension business altogether and then give it all to his buddy Rauner who's gonna give it all to his hedge fund buddies to dissolve into their own pockets.

THAT is the future of your pension should you agree to this contract today.

9/25/2014 08:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To jaded thoughts :The city dosen't care if you ever collect a pension or don't either way they don't want to pay for it and they haven't lately now get back into the basement!

9/25/2014 08:47:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think it is pretty obvious that the city wants out of the pension and medical insurance business then the cops are fixed.

9/25/2014 08:50:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

According to the PBPA, who also have this clause, the purpose of that article is to protect the wage increase that is contractually agreed on. For instance, you get a 10% but they increase pension benefits to 12$. That means over the life of the contract you are now getting only an 8% raise. The union can ask to have wages reopened and increased to preserve the contractually agreed on 10% increase over the term of the contract. You very astutely note that the city doesn't have to agree to negotiate, etc, and that the wage issue can then be pushed to an arbitrator. The intent of the clause is to protect the pay hike. Will it? Does it? I hope it doesn't become an issue.

9/25/2014 08:52:00 AM  
Anonymous retired cpd said...

If members vote on this contract trying to be shoved down their throats, they deserve what they get. I don't get to vote otherwise my opinion would be all over the internet. Feel for you guys!!! Its a raw deal and the only ones making money are the attorneys!

9/25/2014 08:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If anyone has voted 'yes' for this contract - that is one dim patrolman.

9/25/2014 08:59:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not possible! The pooooleeeeces voted NO on the contract for just seeing the word pension in it lol.
Thr contract should of excluded department vehicles, change in duty availability, and games with traditional step raises. Instead they should of mentioned straight time c.t.a, murder capital,1 man cars on 2nd watch, terrible deffered comp, lower life expectancy, umbrella policy for lawsuits, and residency.

9/25/2014 09:00:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just emailed Kevin Graham at the state lodge regarding the ballot tainting and my possession of a ballot mailed out of state.

We'll see whether he bothers to respond or get involved.

Stay tuned.... National lodge next if no or inappropriate response from state lodge.

9/25/2014 09:11:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Vote no , why because no increase in seniority bids for districts , watches , specialized units and office assignments , no demand for all two man cars on first and third watch . No demand to decrease or end merit promotions . Does cpd have one man helicopter unit , no so why do we have one man beat cars .

9/25/2014 09:14:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

scary, but unlikely. You cannot give away constitutional RIGHTS with a contract....not in AMERICA you can't.....Now this being The People's Democratic Republic of Chicago.....there are no rights. SO F off!

9/25/2014 09:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The amount of information that most cops have about their own pension and pension law wouldn't fill a thimble.

The comment that the pension can now be changed because of a raise re-negotiation clause is the single dumbest thing ever posted for public reading. The comment that the pension would no longer be covered by state law because of that clause is so completely stupid that the person who wrote it will certainly be dead within 48 hours because his brain is in the last stage of rotting out.

Most cops have to realize that they do not know a single thing about pension law, constitutional law, contract law, ERISA, or the federal constitutional contract clause. Just admit to yourself that you don't know ANYTHING about any of those topics. Because you don't.

9/25/2014 09:30:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OT. VERY IMPORTANT!!!!!!
######################
Two police officers must pay a Milwaukee man more than half a million dollars for violating his civil rights by searching him without a legal reason and wrongfully arresting him, reports the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. A federal jury determined that officers did not have a reason to stop and search the 40-year-old man outside his mother's home in 2012. With the verdict, jurors were essentially saying that Milwaukee police, like their counterparts in New York City, had used unconstitutional 'stop and frisk' tactics. The officers did not have 'reasonable suspicion,' the lowest level of proof required for officers to search someone in which the Plaintiff had not committed a crime or posed a threat, the jury found. The jury believed the Plaintiff, and they sent a message that no police officer can stop a man and put their hands on him simply because he is black in Milwaukee, said the Plaintiff lead attorney. The verdict was the first in potentially dozens of civil rights trials alleging illegal strip and cavity searches by Milwaukee police. More than 60 people have sued in connection with such searches."

Unfortunately, this case is not exclusive to Milwaukee. The NYPD 'stop, question and frisk' Federal trial verdict is currently causing that agency to reevaluate its position on this tactic. This type of police encounter is also one of those that the U.S. Department of Justice normally focuses on during its 'pattern and practice' investigations since 1997.

9/25/2014 09:30:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Look at Boston! They never expected the arbitrator to go so heavily pro police!!



their police were paid way less than firemen. The Arb bumped them to match the firemen. that is the reason.

9/25/2014 09:35:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am no fan of the FOP.

I am not happy with many of the terms in this new contract.

But, I now see that the FOP has an absolutely impossible job. They must somehow communicate information to complete moron coppers who have no ability to understand the information they are given, but who are completely convinced that they understand things perfectly.

I actually feel bad for the FOP reps after hearing and reading most of the nonsense and sheer stupidity coming from the membership concerning this contract.

9/25/2014 09:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Contract or constitution be damned. If the City does not fund the pension, it will merely go to zero once all the Baby Boomers devour it. If you are 45 or younger, bet on not having a pension. Not just us, but the firemen , teachers, etc.

Obamacare is the law of the land. The Repuglicans will NOT remove it. They are not even running on removing it. Get used to sh!t service.

The "stock market " is at record highs. You know the idiots at the Pension Board is "all in" and doubling down on the Dow! Just in time to see the big pop.

9/25/2014 09:41:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Obamacare will collapse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6qZgVJ5SgM

It was designed to fail. Then we can move into a single player (read: Govmnt) system ie Britian, Canada, France

9/25/2014 09:46:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Randon drug test isn't so random. Anyone who thinks the random drug test is random....needs to report to random drug for testing!

Can you say class action lawsuit?

9/25/2014 12:24:00 AM

Good luck on that one, FOP already agreed to random drug testing

9/25/2014 09:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I spent years dealing with public pensions in the private sector. Renegotiating salaries due to increased employee pension contributions will not trigger any pension benefits change.

But what fuck, cops will believe whatever they want and never want to be confused by the facts.

9/25/2014 02:16:00 AM

Nice try, jerkoff. Now take your bag of lies and sneak back under Rahm's desk.

9/25/2014 10:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Public Pension Crisis: The Problem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0WCB_xjNUA

Public Pension Crisis: The Solution

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJkiPMX98gk

This is our future get ready. I don't like his solution, but I'm Rahm would. It starts like this. The City will match your 401k....then there will be some budget crisis and then they won't too bad.

9/25/2014 10:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

2:33 am I believe you are wrong! Rights can be waived, such as your right to remain silent. The point is why would FOP even contemplate this language in a bargaining agreement, and why would the City want this language. The City believes this would or could constitute a waiver of the pension protection!

9/25/2014 10:41:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Where's the loyalty?

You see what these people stand for?

They get high paying, high power positions they cut and run and don't even hang around long enough to support the people that put them there.

Eric Holder Is Resigning
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 09/25/2014 - 10:48

And now, for the best news of the day, we go to NPR which reports that Eric "Too Big To Prosecute" Holder is resigning. From NPR: "Eric Holder Jr., the nation's first black U.S. attorney general, is preparing to announce his resignation Thursday after a tumultuous tenure marked by civil rights advances, national security threats, reforms to the criminal justice system and five and a half years of fights with Republicans in Congress.


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-25/eric-holder-resigning

9/25/2014 10:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I won't point out that I wrote a comment about not allowing them to insert pension language in the contract and that, sometime last summer during the heat of the pension 'crisis' (per the media), it was reported that we are covered by the Constitution and our benefits are protected AS LONG AS THE PENSION ISN'T ADDRESSED IN THE CONTRACT.


... Please show me a link where this is 'reported.' Until then I'll continue to believe that our pension is GUARANTEED under the Illinois constitution and cannot be DIMINISHED or IMPAIRED without a constitutional amendment.

9/25/2014 10:59:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Does anyone know what the rules are for changing our collective bargaining representative? The Fraternal order of police is a total failure. We need a real union with real labor experience to negotiate for us! I heard once that the only time period you can do something like this is before ratification of a new contract. I have no idea, but hope there's some labor attorneys who could answer this question.

9/25/2014 11:14:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Talked to my neighbor, retired cpd, he said his healthcare premium jumped to an all time high. Be careful with this contract, you'll surely pay for any bone the city may throw to you. And remember, we will all be retired someday.

9/25/2014 11:18:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
hey guys.. the pension is 30 percent funded. we need to pay more.


Right after the City catches up with their end

9/25/2014 11:46:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Vote Yes!
Consider the source when speaking to cops about the contract language! This is probably the same type of goof that tries to talk out a Domestic Violence victim of a case report because is ALL BS! ARBITRATION will not go our way with BEND OVER BEN!

9/25/2014 11:49:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

After Shields made all his amazing charges he just went away. No more word on those allegations. No Federal investigation. No lawsuits. No nothing. Most of all. no proof produced. You couldn't get misdemeanor charges approved on Shields crazy accusations.

9/25/2014 12:00:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
The Illinois Constitution is the highest law in the state. No law, or contract can be written, or agreed to that contradicts the constitution.

The Illinois supreme court has ruled against the changes the legislature tried passing on the pensions this past summer.

9/25/2014 02:33:00 AM

That might be true,but SB 3538 changed the pension for po's coming on after January 1,2011

Below link shows the changes,some significant age of retirement, 96 months instead of 48 months to determine pension.

http://www.civicfed.org/civic-federation/blog/senate-bill-3538-police-and-fire-pension-reforms

9/25/2014 12:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
hey guys.. the pension is 30 percent funded. we need to pay more. Yes i know.. we didnt cause this. Yes politicians did but if we want it in the future we are gonna have to do something to keep it. Ill grit my teeth and pay more to keep it. it sucks but pouting about it and pointing fingers at past politicians will do nothing except run our pension dry. We need increased contributions, if you think we will have a pension in 10 years without increased contributions or pension reform then get yourself checked for mental illness. needs to be reformed and needs more money. if we stay hard headed and stick with the we didnt cause it argument then we will have nothing. youre right we didnt cause it.. now guess what, nothing has changed since we figured that out.. the pension system is still broke. telling the public its not our fault wont magically get it funded.. the end. pay more if you want it.. if not vote for a 401k type system

9/25/2014 02:08:00 AM


The amount the city is paying is the absolute minimum by law. The actual multiplier should be around 5.5, not just 2. The city always elected to pay only the minimum, not the amount the actuaries tell them is needed.

That is why the state passed that law requiring the amount the city pays to go up. The city howls at this but without that increase the pension is indeed headed for insolvency.

When Miriam Santos was City Treasurer, around 1998, our pension fund was funded at 77%. Daley's neglect got it to this low level, 30%.

And recall, Daley shafted Santos because she prevented Daley from making the grab for control of our pension funds. Daley wanted Santos to make some shady loans with pension money; Santos refused. So Daley had his slick operatives get a law passed removing Santos from the boards of some municipal pension funds. Santos screamed bloody murder and asked Gov Edgar to veto the bill.

That is when Daley has her setup. 40 months in Federal prison for asking for campaign money on City time. Daley had that honed to a fine art. But Santos was convicted for it.

Daley and his whole family are pure scum.

9/25/2014 12:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hey ssc my two cents woth, we have to pay more and it mught be 15% ,even with that rate the pension is a great deal , work hard save your money and get into defer comp. also alot of states out west no longer have a pensio 401k and a 457 plan ,think before you act

9/25/2014 01:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The contract will pass bet 75% yes or more! We will hear the usual. "I voted no" everyone will say they voted no and it passes easily, cut the bullshit many on here are. Lying yes they will vote yes I did!

9/25/2014 02:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If it means nothing then why include it?

Then by the same logic they could have included "Hey looky there, Spot is dry humping the neighbor's leg again". It don't mean shit so let's just insert it and fuck with the boys.

There is ALWAYS a purpose for ANY Language in any contract.

Am I wrong?

Next time you sign a contract I bet you will read it and ask about every single line, and if it has no purpose then I bet you will ask it to be stricken.

Well then but again, I guess it all depends on the buyer.

VOTE NO !!!!

9/25/2014 03:06:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Illinois Constitution is the highest law in the state. No law, or contract can be written, or agreed to that contradicts the constitution.

The Illinois supreme court has ruled against the changes the legislature tried passing on the pensions this past summer.

9/25/2014 02:33:00 AM
---------------------------------------
Do u really think these guys downtown give a fuck about the law of the land? Answer no. So by putting pension language in our contract now would benefit them until a decade or so later when its stuck in the court system because a decade before some of u guys decided to vote yes to the contract they wanted. Lack of Concealed carry contradicted the constitution, red light cameras contradict the constitution, half or lack of punishment demanded by law contradicts the constitition and on and on and on............

9/25/2014 03:07:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's definitely scary, but I think it would be a stretch. The whole pension thing is sad because we had nothing to do with the corruption/mess that caused the problem. Politicians are the worst thing for any investiment. Evil shaddy scum that only get fat on the back of others.

9/25/2014 03:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Give me my own money that I put in the pension and I'll invest it my own way. I'm sure I've given over 150k already!

9/25/2014 03:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

it is silly to have that language in the contract because we all know it will never happen, so why waste ink? The "time due" language is dumb too.

9/25/2014 03:34:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm in on a class action lawsuit? With over 20 years on I was going down twice a month. When I beefed to the supervisor that something doesn't seem right with the process, I then got called down 2 more times that month. Who owns the testing company that is making all the money for BS tests? If I haven't taken drugs in the first 20 years of my career do we actually think I would start taking them now? If I haven't taken drugs two weeks ago, why would you test me two weeks later?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
A majority of the people that do piss hot have over 20 years on. They just retire with no star or ID before they get the boot.

9/25/2014 03:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ok put it writing fop , increase pension contribution by 2% right now with a 4% pay raise from June 2012 with retro .
We win all the way , city has to match the pension increase . F the , we can reopen wages , let's do it now .

9/25/2014 04:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Only way this pos contract would pass is if residency was lifted. Then you would have 95% yes vote. I'd be packing tmrw!

9/25/2014 04:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

With 1.7 Billion, sitting in the TIF slush funds, and more coming in every day, the city has more than enough money to fund the pensions. I see coppers on this blog, rolling over and saying " We'll just have to pay more" Grow a set. The minute a retiree gets a penny less than he is owed, there will be a lawsuit that will force the city to pay. Bankruptcy, you say? Fine. We'll take O'Hare, for our share.

9/25/2014 04:27:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Police Benefits:
Duty Availability increase over 5 years. $805 to $900.
D2 pay for helicopter pilots. Nothing special but still a plus for the police.
1 year less to reach your next furlough bump.
Retro for first year.
Subscriber share which gives us discounts that BCBS gets.

Rahm/City Benefits:
New hires do not get duty availability till 42 months. (3.5 years) in.
Since new recruits do not get duty availability, less money is being paid into the pension.
Furlough by watch. Relieves man which can give the city an excuse to not hire more people when we are short at least 1000 people.
Decrease in tuition reimburesement for another above a bachelors degree.
Pension talk with a contract reopener which can prevent us from taking the city to court.
No retro on overtime worked for the first year.
2% pay on healthcare for those who retire after 2017 at age 55-59.

Neutral:
11% pay raise. Some think this is decent and fair while some think this is a joke compared to an all time high Dow Jones. Plus an insane increase in cost of living in the city of Chicago.
A tiered health care system with the same deductibles as what we have now.
More vehicles which is not a police benefit as it has nothing to do with us contractually.

Looks like the city won on this contract by a landslide.

9/25/2014 04:31:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Any yes vote is a Vote against our union and our benefits. I am voting no and asking everyone else also this is not a good raise and specially when they are taking away so many of our benefits. Vote NO!

9/25/2014 04:52:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SCC , you must have a crystal ball because this is exactly what's going to happen . I wonder who advised the FOP and why the rush to get this contract passed. If we get screwed later on ,we will have ourselves to blame .

I can just see the city lawyers raising their glasses for a toast and their boss at the head of the table with a big steak knife screaming " die pigs, die. "

9/25/2014 05:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Never trust a Democrat with your earnings.
If I had a million(s) in the bank from a once in a lifetime insider knowledge stock sell off, I wouldn't worry about health insurance either.
Vote YES if you truly believe in Rahm.

But first, check and see what a City plumber earns, you'll be surprised what a bonus you get for working midnights, January furlough, no time off on the weekends.

He's going to raise property taxes, medical costs will rise and fees of all sorts are going to go up.

Vote NO to this insulting Contract...16% and we break even on rising cost of living.
Vote against Rahm & Rauner 2015 too.

9/25/2014 05:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
The amount of information that most cops have about their own pension and pension law wouldn't fill a thimble.

The comment that the pension can now be changed because of a raise re-negotiation clause is the single dumbest thing ever posted for public reading. The comment that the pension would no longer be covered by state law because of that clause is so completely stupid that the person who wrote it will certainly be dead within 48 hours because his brain is in the last stage of rotting out.

Most cops have to realize that they do not know a single thing about pension law, constitutional law, contract law, ERISA, or the federal constitutional contract clause. Just admit to yourself that you don't know ANYTHING about any of those topics. Because you don't.

9/25/2014 09:30:00 AM

It was people like you who were running around claiming it was no big deal to pay a couple of bucks into our healthcare, so we should just volunteer to do it, a few contracts back. And people like me who were saying 'don't let the City get its foot in the door'. And where are we now?

9/25/2014 06:09:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We will pay more after rahmmie makes his balloon payment ne t year , not a day before

9/25/2014 06:11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SO nothing can change a pension?

So 12% contribution is in the constitution?

Why not 20% 0r not having new employees in the pension?

Think a little a head. No new employees the pension will be underfunded thus increases will be demanded of all current employees.

You did not see the line for new employees getting no duty availability?
Next contract will kick the new officers out of pension because they will have different rights.

And all you brain surgeons retiring and claiming you don't care because you are on your way out will be banged on the other end with higher health insurance.

Keep thinking like you can beat the system working part time at VRI.

9/25/2014 06:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Consider two things.

1. A lot of you guys/gals have been putting in the o/t and probably haven't noticed so much the price increases going on.

Beef prices up 15~21%, same with pork. Damn lemons up 35%, peaches 17% and the list goes on..check it out.

http://www.bls.gov/ro3/apmw.htm

Calif. is out major supplier of produce and the drought just keeps going.

Consider this if we legalize the illegals those prices would skyrocket and if we kick them all out those prices would skyrocket. No wonder nothing ever gets done in congress about the illegals.

9/25/2014 06:22:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
hey guys.. the pension is 30 percent funded. we need to pay more.


Right after the City catches up with their end

9/25/2014 11:46:00 AM

Hey idiot, we don't need to pay more. Let the city pay their share starting with the 600 million due next year instead of trying to push that payment back 10 years,but wanting us to contribute more. But then why not with guys like you saying "Ok,we will just pay more" If they want to save next year, kill the gold braid, thats easy for them if they want to.

9/25/2014 06:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
What if you or your family gets really sick !! The tiered hospital that's going to cost you that 25 percent is going to ruin you and your family at 25 percent. Let's not negotiate keep the medical the way it is. The way it's figured the machine is making a percent or two and not giving up anything with this shitty contract.

9/25/2014 07:46:00 AM

To put it nicely,I'm not sure you know or understand the tier thing
Presently the family out of pocket limit is $3,000 With Tier 1 and subscriber share it is lowered to $2,000 and with tier 2 and subscriber share it is $3,000 which is where your present PPO plan is.
So how is that going to ruin you and you family by paying the same limit and having it lowered to $2,000 if you use a tier 1 hospital
Evidently I am missing something here.

9/25/2014 06:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hey ssc my two cents woth, we have to pay more and it mught be 15% ,even with that rate the pension is a great deal , work hard save your money and get into defer comp. also alot of states out west no longer have a pensio 401k and a 457 plan ,think before you act

9/25/2014 01:37:00 PM



Get some balls and let the city start by increasing their contributions starting next year with that balloon payment which is due and then continue to pay in their required share.

9/25/2014 06:41:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Randon drug test isn't so random. Anyone who thinks the random drug test is random....needs to report to random drug for testing!

Can you say class action lawsuit?

9/25/2014 12:24:00 AM

Hubby was randomly tested each time he came back from furlough. It is all legit.

9/25/2014 06:50:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

1;37pm>your an idiot!!!!!!!!!!!

9/25/2014 07:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

nonymous said...

Tiny dancer wants to give us an 11% raise over 5 years but wants to give burger flippers a 100% raise and double what minimum wage is.No thanks. I vote NO.

9/25/2014 07:56:00 AM

Eat your Mickey Ds and STFU!

9/25/2014 07:23:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am no fan of the FOP.

I am not happy with many of the terms in this new contract.

But, I now see that the FOP has an absolutely impossible job. They must somehow communicate information to complete moron coppers who have no ability to understand the information they are given, but who are completely convinced that they understand things perfectly.

I actually feel bad for the FOP reps after hearing and reading most of the nonsense and sheer stupidity coming from the membership concerning this contract.

9/25/2014 09:39:00 AM

Bingo!!!

9/25/2014 07:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm voting no for the two tier crap. Think about it... they are essentially dividing the rank of police officer in 10 years. It'll be us old guys vs them type shit. We're stronger together.

9/25/2014 08:26:00 PM  
Blogger Valiant Knight said...

hello all.

I harbor no ill will towards our fraternal order, but I will be voting no because of a few things:

1. pension language. it's vague and it's presence appears to diminish our legal remedies in the event Rham screws us, and he is going to try again to screw us.

2. Duty availability pay. I do to agree with screwing over the young guys. That money should have been part of our salary back in the day, but we and the city agreed (via contract) to get this stipend instead of the amount being rolled into our base pay. I say if it must go, then put that money into our salary.

3. Retiree 2%. They are getting screwed enough...leave them alone. As you get to that age, your revenue streams are drying up and become more difficult to make ends meet.

Just my two cents. I could go on about the cars (I know it was part of a survey) and the health tier nonsense, but why bother...others have more insight on those matters.

Whichever way this vote goes, we are all in this together. Make sure you vote.

9/25/2014 08:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
The city already diminished our benefits by increasing health care costs for retirees. That's a violation of Illinois constitution. But they do it and then say take us to court. Why the hell shouldn't we strike? The city violates the law and it's to be hashed out in court? If the city isn't going to play by the rules why the hell are we? Time to grow some balls and walk the picket lines. Then we'll see results! The firefighters did it and it worked and it's the only hope we've got. The city thinks we're going to keep bending over and have no recourse. I'm not a retiree but will be some day and fear what will be left of the benefits I was promised when I signed up for this carnival ride.

9/25/2014 08:10:00 AM

Are you a f*cking moron? I'll vote no and I'll walk a picket line but strike? I have a family that lives in the city. Don't you? Maybe you'd like these animals to burn your house down and rape your kids? Strike my ass ....

9/25/2014 09:37:00 PM  
Anonymous me2you said...

These matters need to be talked about b4 / afta roll calls, in our break rooms, at jobs, inside cars, while in stations. We need to show SOLIDARITY and VOTE DOWN this ridiculously insulting Slap in our face contract!
Please dont, please dont give up soooo much for sooo little and future ass rapings to cum if we vote this shit in

9/25/2014 10:40:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

F the retro. I'd rather get less than lose
More!!! Vote no

9/25/2014 10:55:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hey ssc my two cents woth, we have to pay more and it mught be 15% ,even with that rate the pension is a great deal , work hard save your money and get into defer comp. also alot of states out west no longer have a pensio 401k and a 457 plan ,think before you act

9/25/2014 01:37:00 PM

Aren't CPD newer guys are already in a 457 plan? Senate Bill 3538 was passed and affects police and fire in Illinois hired after January 2011. You can read about it here
http://www.civicfed.org/civic-federation/blog/senate-bill-3538-police-and-fire-pension-reforms

9/25/2014 11:00:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Question, since a good number of coppers don't seem to trust Dean Angelo and the Flop boys, how do we know there will be a fair ballot count ? Does anyone know the process ?

9/26/2014 01:23:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

VOTE! What ever you decide. VOTE! Everyone mouthing about the contract. We'll see how many folks really give a fuck when they count how many of us actually voted.

9/26/2014 01:28:00 AM  
Blogger Barney Fife said...

The comment that the pension would no longer be covered by state law because of that clause is so completely stupid that the person who wrote it will certainly be dead within 48 hours because his brain is in the last stage of rotting out.

---

Where is it written that the pension is backed by the state? I have always thought this but everyone I talk to says that is not the case? Any idea where it is?

9/26/2014 09:24:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Question, since a good number of coppers don't seem to trust Dean Angelo and the Flop boys, how do we know there will be a fair ballot count ? Does anyone know the process ?

9/26/2014 01:23:00 AM


Yes. They take the ballots into a windowless room that can be securely locked and has no cameras. Then they turn the lights off and throw all the ballots up to the ceiling. Then they turn the lights on. Those that stick to the ceiling are are "No" votes. The rest are "Yes" votes.

Do you get the process now?

9/26/2014 11:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The city already diminished our benefits by increasing health care costs for retirees. That's a violation of Illinois constitution. But they do it and then say take us to court. Why the hell shouldn't we strike? The city violates the law and it's to be hashed out in court? If the city isn't going to play by the rules why the hell are we? Time to grow some balls and walk the picket lines. Then we'll see results! The firefighters did it and it worked and it's the only hope we've got. The city thinks we're going to keep bending over and have no recourse. I'm not a retiree but will be some day and fear what will be left of the benefits I was promised when I signed up for this carnival ride.

9/25/2014 08:10:00 AM

Are you a f*cking moron? I'll vote no and I'll walk a picket line but strike? I have a family that lives in the city. Don't you? Maybe you'd like these animals to burn your house down and rape your kids? Strike my ass ....

Agree. The firefighters struck 33 years ago. Get current man. And what tdid they really win?

9/26/2014 12:02:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The truth is that the union officials we elected ought not be excoriated and insulted for their participation in the bargaining process. As with any negotiations there will be things gained and some benefits lost. Not one of our union officials has committed malfeasance. No one is perfect. If anyone thinks that our union should be a perfect organisation they are delusional. Our union has never been without mistakes. These folks did the best they could do. It must not have been easy bargaining with a maniacal bunch of wannabe tyrants. Let's support our union guys and gals. The FOP is certainly not the teamsters, but look at their history. Perfection in an ideal not a reality.

9/26/2014 01:23:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You better vote no. Any contract for service you enter into now has a no sue/ arbitration clause

Where? I read it and saw nothing related to that.

Then again, I'm not a lawyer. Are you?

9/26/2014 04:34:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you are 45 or younger, bet on not having a pension

Then take the other solution. Plan for retirement as if the pension goes belly up and START SAVING NOW!

Ah, but that's the problem. Most coppers can't think past the next pay check so how would they be able to save for retirement?

Just look at what most coppers do with their retro checks.

Put it in a ROTH IRA? Maybe sit down with Charles Schwab and open a retirement account?

No.

Most will blow it on a big purchase, like a down payment on a car, a week in Vegas or a 90 inch flat screen TV.

Maybe start working more CTA. It's straight time but at least they take out Social Security.

My God! To hear some coppers talk about how the city is SUPPOSED to take care of us makes it sound more like grumblings over food stamp cuts

It is possible to have a secure retirement. The question now is, how much effort do you want to put into realizing that goal?

9/26/2014 05:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm voting no for the two tier crap. Think about it... they are essentially dividing the rank of police officer in 10 years. It'll be us old guys vs them type shit. We're stronger together.

10 years!

Good. I only have 2 years to go for retirement.

9/26/2014 05:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

sgts ride 10-4 and handle jobs

9/26/2014 05:55:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Agree. The firefighters struck 33 years ago. Get current man. And what tdid they really win?

9/26/2014 12:02:00 PM


They got a contract and so did we. Jane Byrne saw what a problem she had with the firefighters and gave us a contract. We would not have gotten ours if the firefighters did not strike.

9/26/2014 07:42:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Barney Fife said...
The comment that the pension would no longer be covered by state law because of that clause is so completely stupid that the person who wrote it will certainly be dead within 48 hours because his brain is in the last stage of rotting out.

---

Where is it written that the pension is backed by the state? I have always thought this but everyone I talk to says that is not the case? Any idea where it is?

9/26/2014 09:24:00 AM


State pension law rules the pension. The state does NOT financially guarantee anything with our pension. That is all City of Chicago. Isn't that reassuring?

9/26/2014 07:44:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
The truth is that the union officials we elected ought not be excoriated and insulted for their participation in the bargaining process. As with any negotiations there will be things gained and some benefits lost. Not one of our union officials has committed malfeasance. No one is perfect. If anyone thinks that our union should be a perfect organisation they are delusional. Our union has never been without mistakes. These folks did the best they could do. It must not have been easy bargaining with a maniacal bunch of wannabe tyrants. Let's support our union guys and gals. The FOP is certainly not the teamsters, but look at their history. Perfection in an ideal not a reality.

9/26/2014 01:23:00 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...
You better vote no. Any contract for service you enter into now has a no sue/ arbitration clause

Where? I read it and saw nothing related to that.

Then again, I'm not a lawyer. Are you?

9/26/2014 04:34:00 PM

I'm not a lawyer, either, but the poster said - and meant - any contract for service. As in, hire a roofer. As in, contract with a landscaper.

9/27/2014 01:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Give me my own money that I put in the pension and I'll invest it my own way. I'm sure I've given over 150k already!

9/25/2014 03:28:00 PM

Hey genius, you can call the pension board and ask them how much you've paid in to date.

It's also on your summary statement you get from them.

You can also figure it out from your check stubs.

It won't be as much as you think it is.

9/27/2014 10:43:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Barney Fife said...
The comment that the pension would no longer be covered by state law because of that clause is so completely stupid that the person who wrote it will certainly be dead within 48 hours because his brain is in the last stage of rotting out.

---

Where is it written that the pension is backed by the state? I have always thought this but everyone I talk to says that is not the case? Any idea where it is?

9/26/2014 09:24:00 AM


State pension law rules the pension. The state does NOT financially guarantee anything with our pension. That is all City of Chicago. Isn't that reassuring?

9/26/2014 07:44:00 PM

Illinois Constitution Article 13 Section 5

9/27/2014 11:18:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
sgts ride 10-4 and handle jobs

9/26/2014 05:55:00 PM

Where?

9/27/2014 07:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Give me my own money that I put in the pension and I'll invest it my own way. I'm sure I've given over 150k already!

9/25/2014 03:28:00 PM

Hey genius, you can call the pension board and ask them how much you've paid in to date.

It's also on your summary statement you get from them.

You can also figure it out from your check stubs.

It won't be as much as you think it is.

9/27/2014 10:43:00 AM


Resign and you can likely get your pension money, that is, if you are under 50 and have less than 20 years on. If you are over that age and time you must get fired to get your contribution back.

Put you gun in some kids mouth on State St. in front of the ABC studio during the 6:00pm news, you know, when the camera pans the crowd. That should get you your pension money returned.

9/27/2014 11:00:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
I'm in on a class action lawsuit? With over 20 years on I was going down twice a month. When I beefed to the supervisor that something doesn't seem right with the process, I then got called down 2 more times that month. Who owns the testing company that is making all the money for BS tests? If I haven't taken drugs in the first 20 years of my career do we actually think I would start taking them now? If I haven't taken drugs two weeks ago, why would you test me two weeks later?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
A majority of the people that do piss hot have over 20 years on. They just retire with no star or ID before they get the boot.

9/25/2014 03:54:00 PM


I went years without getting tested. Then 4 times in one year. Two times the next. To test you on purpose they need cause. For steroids they need an anger type incident. I don't know if they have to tell you if they have cause.

For instance, if someone drops a dime on you claiming you use or sell drugs, that might do it and it can happen anonymously. Criminal shit can trigger a number anonymously. So does residency.

9/27/2014 11:09:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Very stupid argument!!!!! The pension will never cease to be under state control dummy because its a constitutional issue. Where the hell do these dum dums come up with this?

9/25/2014 05:06:00 AM

Ummm . . . let me guess here, and it's only a guess, who DUMB DUMB, is it that has to vote on the Illinois Constitution... "the state".

9/28/2014 12:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The firemen who went on strike, got a contract after the police got theirs. They came crawling back to work, begging for their jobs back. They were being replaced by new hires, every day the strike lasted. They are very lucky, that they weren't fired. The city was doing just fine without them.

9/28/2014 04:41:00 PM  

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