Bad Ammo
This is the reason the Department suspended qualifications and called everyone in off the street for the past two months:
This ammo is still out there - we just had an e-mail from someone who experienced a bad malfunction due to this. Everyone should unload all their magazines and unload their weapon and eyeball every round, as soon as possible. Don't rely on the Department calling you in - do it yourself. Your life might very well depend on it.
Labels: safety issues
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
56 Comments:
OT -- Nice atrocity - now I understand S&S staging up big new garbage trucks, to protect motorcades.
Now put a couple big coppers in the cab with shotguns and you might have something, huh>.
Makes too much sense in Rahm's/ Jamal D Green-Johnson's new "depoliced" Chicago, huh?
I thought the lack of ammo in the private sector was due to you guys getting
all the new stuff? Where in the heck did all that ammo go?
Nonetheless, I am an IL CCW permit holder and I train, and I carry, EVERYWHERE I go.
I'm no Rambo, but I DO have your backs, and I'm not alone. GO BLUE!
...and this ammo OBVIOUSLY came out of s__t, worn-out, maladjusted loading machines, with worn dies and speed control turned up to "10" for maximum profit, minimum functionality. This is s__t. Never even did this bad ONCE when I taught myself to reload.
Spend the money on brand-new factory sealed ammo before you even think about
getting that 170-can cap. cooler for the bass boat.
Shameful. Life-threatening. So what no-bidder got this f___ing contract to stamp off this crap? Bulgaria wouldn't even have accepted delivery in WWI.
Don't even use this at the "range." Too dangerous.
Shit can the department issued ammo
and purchase your own.
Don't bet your life on the crap
the department issues you.
There are some that still haven't come it to swap out the ammunition. That's dangerously lazy. Check your ammo and go to the range to replace any bad rounds.
Oh, they will call you in for not doing your ethics training but ammo change out . ...priorities .
Dump the ammo and replace it. Buy your own if needed. Your life is worth more than a $40.00 box of ammo.
Ask your wife and children.
And why haven't the guys and gals been examining every round of ammo before they put it in their magazine from the git go? That is only common sense and something every recruit should know. Unbelievable.
Any doubts, throw it out! Get new ammo ASAP and replace it all. Before your next tour!
I certainly hope those are not actual rounds being used by your department. They were discarded by most departments in the 80's.
Keep telling you guys to get Federal HST +p regardles of the caliber. Or speed gold dot!
Fucking joke, lowest bidder bullshit, fuck Rahman, fuck shitty hall
Now Retired...
I never trusted CPD choices in ammunition and this goes back to +P.38 Special Lead Semi-wadcutter hollowpoints. And then 9mm Black Talon SUB-SONIC... Lucky more cops were not killed using that stuff. No wonder it inspired "Spray & Pray".
But where is this bad ammo coming from?
If it is a U.S. brand name could it be a counterfeit from China?
Man, there is no way in hell that would ever get into one of my magazines in the first place. Remedial training may be in order, (and a new supplier).
This round should have never made it past quality control. What brand is it? They aren't issuing reloads in Chicago are they?
Wouldnt you just love to know how this stuff ended up with you folks? I mean who knows who knows someone one that got the contract for the bulk ammo deal and how much of the contract purchase ended up with the original who knows?
Confusing or double talk to others from other parts of the country but its the Chicago Way and passing money from one hand to another is the deal. But this puts you in danger and is unacceptable. Quality ammo in semi autos is of CRITICAL importance in function and reliability and there is some real crap ammo out there. It is important for wheel guns too and I have experienced some real shit rovolver ammo. But this stuff puts lives in danger and someone needs to be accountable.
Disgraceful.
Wow it looks as if the round was not aligned well in the seating/crimping die. That is a widow maker for sure. Check your stuff and be careful.
Yes, please folllow SCC's recommedation, please.
This faulty ammunition may cost you, or your partners life.
My recommendation is and always was to use dept. ammo for practice and buy your own. Whatever caliber, I highly recommended Hornady Critical Duty ammo. Very high manufacturing standards and a highly rater ammo company.
Shame on the Dept for issuing that ammo! And shame on the PO who may have loaded that crap in his duty weapon!
Pitiful...just Pitiful...
I check EVERY box of ammo that I purchase at the time or purchase. I have found defective rounds several time and immediately requested a new box. Never had a problem with any store that this has happened at. Every maker can have problems.
I have my own reloads, that are super reliable and the bullets I use are Federal or Hornady hollow points. The main component is the primers. Good primers are key in the ignition of the powder you use. I know what most of the coppers are thinking, your ammo is not reliable and on and on it will go. Hey, hows that commercial ammo the department is giving you working???? My ammo has been used in two CPD shooting and no one ever figured out if the dead guy was shot with department ammo or my reloads.
"Keep telling you guys to get Federal HST +p regardles of the caliber. Or speed gold dot!"
If I could find it in stock I would! I've found standard pressure HST, but the +P I haven't seen in forever.
Seems like NYPD and some others have had the same problem. Can you say SABOTAGE?
I wonder why the feds are not investigating this. Oh yeah, they are busy trying to destroy the police, not the bad guys.
Not LEO, but is it possible the woman who was shot during the baseball bat attack was hit because of department issued faulty equipment?
If they're loading this sloppy, there are probably rounds with NO POWDER CHARGE coming off the line.
The primer has enough oomph to shove the bullet into the bore and lodge it there sometimes; tap, rack, BANG! Gun blows up in your face. You cleared the dud case but that bullet is still down there, waiting for the next round to come along.
Hear an odd click, a feeble pop and slide does not function, anything unusual, STOP and check for a bore obstruction. Easier said than done if there happens to be a gunfight going on, in which case it's time for the Chicago Reload.
Later the bullet can be removed; in general, lubricate bore with FP-10 or something, remove grips and clamp pistol or barrel up in vise between wood blocks, and find a steel (brass is better) rod that closely fits the bore and tap the slug out with a mallet. Goes easier if you start from the chamber end and tap it out towards the muzzle. This happens in a revolver, of course you have to go from the muzzle. Then clean out all lubricant with something like brake cleaner, and inspect bore for a bulge or other damage.
...or you can toss this junk and buy some reliable ammo!
thought the lack of ammo in the private sector was due to you guys getting
all the new stuff? Where in the heck did all that ammo go?
The federal goverment has been stock piling the ammo for the past years is why u couldn t get any. They know there is a civil war coming since they are the one s causing it. U think this sounds crazy but look at what is going on today. We have to survive these last few months with this shit Prez and hope killary doesn t get in. If not head for the hills and get ready for the shit to hit the wall.
SCC,I know every rambo wannabee copper is a small arms expert(not) but this is why you must inspect ALL rounds going into your Duty Weapons(s).Since you know who got elected the demand for ammunition has been very high.This increased demand has taxed the ammo companies and QC has suffered,even on premium SD/Duty type ammo.
I have never seen so many recalls and defective rounds showing up than during the last 7+ years.
Inspect your duty ammo!!!
" Anonymous Anonymous said...
And why haven't the guys and gals been examining every round of ammo before they put it in their magazine from the git go? That is only common sense and something every recruit should know. Unbelievable"
This right here. Skydiver packs his own chute. He's fully responsible if it malfunctions. Cops need the same mindset.
Do other departments around the country have this problem? My thoughts are that this is some Chicago line the pockets type deal at the cost of officers lives. The fuckery never seems to end.
P.S. draw your weapon when it is necessary, never mind that dumb-ass piece of paper. You guys and gals are appreciated. Thank you for doing what you do.
Sincerely, Richard
Citizen asking out of curiosity:
Even though I don't think you guys should have to resort to this, are you at least allowed to load magazines/cylinders with your own (namebrand) ammunition that you've sourced yourself?
If you use department issue ammo for anything other than practicing at the range you have a death wish. Go out and get some real proven ammo like federal hst or speer gold dot bonded. You life may depend on it someday. Never rely on this department to be looking out for your best interest.
Not LEO, but agree completely about Federal HST +P or Speer Gold Dot. Virtually impossible to find around Chicago. I bought 300 rounds of 9mm 124 gr. Federal HST +P through www.AmmunitionStore.com for $145. With shipping and adult signature, all in was $164. Used half at the range to get used to it and keep the rest for wife's and my carry weapons and spare mags.
>>>Anonymous said...
Fucking joke, lowest bidder bullshit, fuck Rahman, fuck shitty hall
7/15/2016 03:39:00 AM<<<
"lowest bidder" or
preferred minority vendor (campaign contributor)
or
Was this ammo bought on sale at bulk prices from a dot com site.
Cutting edge state of the Art Department, this is just another shining example.
Hurry White shirt ahole, tell us to quit griping & buy are own fucking ammo because that's what officers in Moldova have to do, suckhole pos.
Over 20 years back I was involved in a shooting. With a wheel gun.
During round table review some pin head boss asked me why I did not
use the Department issued Zero ammunition?
This is why. Buy fresh box of ammo every year.
look for brands that make law enforcement loads.
more expensive but cheaper then a misfire at critical times
still have zero crap for plinking and still will not trust it for duty use.
Stay fetal
Went to the range recently & the guy said to check all ammo & it's new from Winchester BUT to check each round because of possible faults.
WTF I had several bad ones straight out of the NEW box
This shit is terrible
Why wouldn't someone inspect every round anyway? It takes 5 seconds to look over the projectile that will save your life. Don't be lazy.
It's oBammo ammo.
Makes a lot of noise, fundamentally useless and ineffective.
I'm sure the Range makes it recommendations, but it's the City that finds the 5th party minority owned vendor who has a cousin in the rebranding of foreign imitation products.
Show us the invoice on that ammunition sale and that will prove my point.
That's why I use Foreign made ammunition. Europe has good stuff.
I went out and bought my own! Can't trust the job to have your back, what makes you think they would supply you with good ammo?
Anonymous said...
Now Retired...
I never trusted CPD choices in ammunition and this goes back to +P.38 Special Lead Semi-wadcutter hollowpoints. And then 9mm Black Talon SUB-SONIC... Lucky more cops were not killed using that stuff. No wonder it inspired "Spray & Pray".
On the +P 38 lead semi wadcutter, it replaced a a 158gr. round nose bullet that was like 9mm ball, useless. The +p 38 semi wadcutter was a good round and I and others saw it in action and the results were very good.
Whose brother has the contract? what elected city goof gets the payment? How much "extra" do we overpay for this junk? Rahm again failure in everything!
I got a serious question, so I hope no one gets pissy on me. What do the Officers who shoot a lot think about using Air pistols for practice at home or wherever? I mean the ones like the copy of a Python or Beretta for a semi-auto version. Duh...I get the fact that there isn't recoil, report or muzzleblast with the pelletguns, but the mechanics are the same. Any heavy shooters or Range guys care to weigh in? The price of actual ammo is getting stupid.
Small mid-west based but very reputable ammo manufacturer...
They load using the best cases (usually Starline) primers
and bullets.
They use their own propriety formula propellant
and it burns "clean as a cat's ass" as we remember
one old timer saying years ago.
Their +P loads are FORMIDABLE
and are meant for FULL SIZE
combat handguns with uprated
recoil springs.
Not super expensive.
Not "cheap" either.
"It's YOUR hide.
How much do you value it?"
There's plenty of 500 and 1000 round
bulk packs to get you through 6 months
through a year of minimum proficiency.
The bigger problem is Policemen being able to
have a place where they can actually shoot
with anger and extreme prejudice.
On ONE POINT will we give grudging credit
to j-fled... Chicago Police Officers were
whistled in a couple times a year or more
for classroom and range instruction.
And we'll put this out there in hope
that the right people pick it up:
Shoot-Don't Shoot/Target Discrimination
Training/Use of Force Application Scenario Training
have fallen victim to Rahm Emanuel's stated desire to
"Stick it in the Cops's ear."
Therefore:
Rahm Emanuel should find HIS NARROW ASS
being stewed in the Federal Civil Rights litigation jack pot
since HE gutted the Police training budget.
Gary McCarthy should just be marched out
and shoved against a wall of sandbags and dealt with accordingly.
You know... Giving true honor to the non-disclosure agreement
he signed upon taking the job.
Lots of m/fers got dropped through a trap door
at the end of a rope or were shoved against
some sandbags while saying: "I was just following orders."
Winchester Ammo?
It seems they've gone to shit over the last several years.
Had a few boxes of Ranger "T Series" +p with a handful of rounds
each of hard/failed to ignite primers.
Yeah...
We agree with the one poster who stated that the
bid paperwork for the ammo deal should be FOI'd
and revealed.
nonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Now Retired...
I never trusted CPD choices in ammunition and this goes back to +P.38 Special Lead Semi-wadcutter hollowpoints. And then 9mm Black Talon SUB-SONIC... Lucky more cops were not killed using that stuff. No wonder it inspired "Spray & Pray".
On the +P 38 lead semi wadcutter, it replaced a a 158gr. round nose bullet that was like 9mm ball, useless. The +p 38 semi wadcutter was a good round and I and others saw it in action and the results were very good.
7/15/2016 06:55:00 PM
Yup...
Wadcutters and heavy for caliber, hard cast lead Keith slugs
driven at 1000fps are potent medicine.
Bone smashers and deep penetrators that tend to keep on truckin'.
Send one right through the pump and be prepared for an exit taking a chunk of spinal column with it.
As with anything you pop the cap on, be sure of your backstop.
I don't think U understand that recoil, report, or muzzle blast. U should really consider this for a better more reality type experience. I dissected U'r question word for word for awhile before I gave my most honest answer.
Upon the practice U do I wish U well.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I have my own reloads, that are super reliable and the bullets I use are Federal or Hornady hollow points. The main component is the primers. Good primers are key in the ignition of the powder you use. I know what most of the coppers are thinking, your ammo is not reliable and on and on it will go. Hey, hows that commercial ammo the department is giving you working???? My ammo has been used in two CPD shooting and no one ever figured out if the dead guy was shot with department ammo or my reloads.
7/15/2016 09:11:00 AM
So do I, currently with production being so careless, we are now getting more misfires and damaged ammo. If your not a modern thinking gunfighter you need not read what I have to say. I use top of the line hollow points in my ammo and develop and test the round for penetration and expansion. My ammo will expand and penetrate much better than department ammo. There are officers who use my ammo mainly because I've videoed testing the ammo and have demonstrated expansion and penetration in the testing. It is estimated, this reloaded ammo has 12-15% more knock down power and 15% more penetration. During the testing, department ammo was compared to my reload ammo. This testing showed the reloaded ammo was better on many levels. They were more accurate, reliable, better expansion, and penetration. The best part, peace of mind. Have a safe day.......
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I have my own reloads, that are super reliable and the bullets I use are Federal or Hornady hollow points. The main component is the primers. Good primers are key in the ignition of the powder you use. I know what most of the coppers are thinking, your ammo is not reliable and on and on it will go. Hey, hows that commercial ammo the department is giving you working???? My ammo has been used in two CPD shooting and no one ever figured out if the dead guy was shot with department ammo or my reloads.
7/15/2016 09:11:00 AM
http://www.sgammo.com/
I got a serious question, so I hope no one gets pissy on me. What do the Officers who shoot a lot think about using Air pistols for practice at home or wherever? I mean the ones like the copy of a Python or Beretta for a semi-auto version. Duh...I get the fact that there isn't recoil, report or muzzleblast with the pelletguns, but the mechanics are the same. Any heavy shooters or Range guys care to weigh in? The price of actual ammo is getting stupid.
7/15/2016 09:02:00 PM
I grew up with a kid whose dad wouldn't let him play 16" softball with us. Said it through of his timing for league ball he played at school.
Spend the money and practice with the tool you use.
http://ammoseek.com/
http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/2016/AR500-Armor-Recalls-Level-III-Body-Armor/
Anonymous said...
I got a serious question, so I hope no one gets pissy on me. What do the Officers who shoot a lot think about using Air pistols for practice at home or wherever? I mean the ones like the copy of a Python or Beretta for a semi-auto version. Duh...I get the fact that there isn't recoil, report or muzzleblast with the pelletguns, but the mechanics are the same. Any heavy shooters or Range guys care to weigh in? The price of actual ammo is getting stupid.
7/15/2016 09:02:00 PM
It has value.It is cheaper and safer than using say Simunition® FX®. Higher quality airsoft guns look and handle just like a real gun,they cannot accept live ammo. The 6mm BBs are cheap and many are even biodegradable.
No they do not recoil or have the muzzle blast of live ammo,but many higher quality airsoft guns have a blow back feature.
I believe they cna provide an excellent supplement to any force on force training program and have real merit. Only eye protection is needed and are realist at CQB ranges.
Why hasn't our FOP pursued a grievance on this critical issue? Get ready for our new contract - if Un-disability Dean cannot handle one issue - how can he deal with multiple issues during contract negotiations? Hey Deano, why no noise from you when the dept dropped .40 & .45 caliber weapons?
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