"Experts" Weigh In
- Proposed changes by Chicago police to its policy on use of force fail to spell out that deadly force should be a last resort and fall short of other key goals such as limiting Taser use and improving transparency, two leading police reform experts say.
In comments submitted to the department Monday, Sheila Bedi, a professor with Northwestern University's MacArthur Justice Center, and Craig Futterman, a law professor at the University of Chicago, said the overhaul doesn't go far enough in spelling out clearly when officers can use force, particularly deadly force.
The policy should begin with the premise that physical encounters with civilians are appropriate only when there is probable cause for arrest or a public safety emergency, Futterman and Bedi said. The policy also needs to be clear that the department's highest priority is the sanctity of life and that deadly force is "a matter of last resort" used only to protect the lives of officers and citizens, they wrote.
These liberals have zero law enforcement experience, except where it comes to criticizing and suing the police for doing a highly dangerous and unpredictable job, imagining their 20/20 hindsight is applicable to an endless number of scenarios.
The so-called "sanctity of life" has always been a hallmark of the Department's Use of Force paradigm, seeing as how it has always been more restrictive than state law, and continues in this new permutation, not to mention that Deadly Force has always been "a matter of last resort" except where dictated by the criminal/offender/assailant who is already using Deadly Force. Police work is necessarily reactive in nature - 100% of the time, the police react to the situation presented to them, be it a call they respond to or an incident observed on the street.
Perhaps the so-called "experts" would do better educating the community as to what sort of behavior is expected of them, by the police and by the law, to prevent tragedies from unfolding due to their own misbehavior.
The so-called "sanctity of life" has always been a hallmark of the Department's Use of Force paradigm, seeing as how it has always been more restrictive than state law, and continues in this new permutation, not to mention that Deadly Force has always been "a matter of last resort" except where dictated by the criminal/offender/assailant who is already using Deadly Force. Police work is necessarily reactive in nature - 100% of the time, the police react to the situation presented to them, be it a call they respond to or an incident observed on the street.
Perhaps the so-called "experts" would do better educating the community as to what sort of behavior is expected of them, by the police and by the law, to prevent tragedies from unfolding due to their own misbehavior.
Labels: info for the police
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
38 Comments:
Where is FOP on this ? shouldn't they be in attendance ? Don't safety concerns have to be negotiated ? Ah , it's campaign time i'll ask when dean comes to the district.
The MacArthur Justice Center - isn't that the group Bernadine Dohrn (Bill Ayers' wife) is a part of?
Define "physical encounters". You probably won't get any contact cards or any involvement at all in case the encounter goes south when it will be the police officer's fault for having engaged in some way with the public.
Send the criminologists into Englewood for a dozen tours.
Ask them if they want to revise their advice.
Let Craig and Shelia do a few ride-alongs in 007, 011, or 015, on a busy Saturday night and have some 18yr old decide he's not going to jail without a spirited debate. I had to laugh where these two academics suggest no one older than 60 or younger than 18, and pregnant women, should not be tazed. I've seen 16yr olds that looked like they were 30. Do I have to call a time out and get their age? How about some crazy female...excuse me, but, before you ride the lightning, I have to ask you, are you pregnant or just fat?!! The highly educated are not highly intelligent.
I'm retiring soon so I'll be able to protect my family with fewer restrictions than the CPD. But then I'll be leaving this shithole about six months later. Enjoy the experts kids and stay fetal!
SCC said, "Perhaps the so-called "experts" would do better educating the community as to what sort of behavior is expected of them, by the police and by the law, to prevent tragedies from unfolding due to their own misbehavior." Now we all know that that will never happen. Citizens can do no wrong and are perpetual victims at the hands of the police. For 40 hrs the "experts" should have to be the police, answering calls, driving shitty squads, being supervised by ignorant bosses, making arrests, filling out countless reports, chasing POS on foot, fighting with POS who want to resist, working OT waiting for the dets and ASA to approve felony charges, going home and getting 2 hrs of sleep before having to appear in court on another case while staying up all day at 26 & Cal, go home and get 3 hrs of sleep only to get up and go to work, and do it all over again, hoping to make a right decision facing a POS with a weapon after so little sleep. Yeah let the "Experts" walk in the shoes of the police and they would be singing a different tune. Fuckers would shit in their pants if they had to do a cop's job, but they know all too well how to tell the police to do theirs.
Deano's busy. Leave him alone.
Expert? Did these experts ever work the streets on the south or west side? When you do the job and walk in our shoes for twenty five years then I'll consider you maybe for an expert unil then you are not an expert or anywhere close! What I call you is a Monday night quarter back.
Let's have these two experts jump into a car and work in 007 or 011 for a week and then see what they say. Liberal democratic sheep who are continuing the destructive work of Obama. And a big FU to Hilary.
I keep seeing a news clip of Special Ed talking about his training in relation to "a few" of his shootings. Anyone have any info on those shootings? I'm wondering about the circumstances surrounding each of those shootings. Was a gun recovered? Was the offender running away? Did he try any deescalating methods before shooting? Was he stripped of his police powers, you know for his safety. For someone who has been down this road Special Ed seems pretty clueless.
If I have to kill one of these criminals justifiably I'm leaving the scene if at all possible. I'm not the police and sometimes just getting into the wind and taking your changes might be a better option.
They are putting police in harms way especially when more cops are being killed, shot at and the anti police movement/agenda is at all time high. The use of force policy should be going in the other direction along with strong public statements by the supt and the mayor that police officers will shoot to incapacitate any individual that has a weapon, implies he has a weapon, or refuses to show his hands, and as they say it refuses to put his hands up. Training is not intended to kill but to incapacitate and that can and may cause death. Bottom line comply with police orders or face the consequences. But I won't hold my breath for that to happen.
If its the FEDs that indict officer why not just use their use of force model?
The FED's never shoot anyone without probable cause!
You lost me at "Northwestern"...
So they sit their fatasses in a comfortable office and have zero clue how mean the streets of chiraq are! What next what do these idiots really advise police to do? Why do you think trump won so big? Trump appointed "mad Dog" to head up the military a battle tested badass tough Marine, maybe Trump realizes that you need power strong power to maintain "law and order" worldwide that is what we need here. we need less regulation more support, sheriff David Clarke has been spotted going to and from Trump tower meeting with trump no doubt that is the kind of strong leadership law enforcement needs in Chicago and America. To bad liberals law and order won, we are tired of the anarchy and mayhem committed by your type.
The media has a big way to spread their lies "dishonest media" covers this, we have a Blog here that by the way is the #1 police blog run by "spirits of he air" our reporters and observers are the heart and soul that lets real Americans go on their day to day work and play knowing the "watchers" are here! If we get support from the President you will see a change from fetal to policing the way it should be, policing is not nice it is dirty and hard to put away the the thugs that would just as well slit your throat as shoot you.
The attacking war on police must end, many citizens read this blog even though our gold star goofs call it "insignificant" when you see a police officer thank them it goes a long way showing support and knowing when you call 911, a copper will respond not someone like a big mouth lying newsman or alderman! God bless the police everywhere!
Only TWO experts say it is not enough. That's good
I want full disclosure. These experts need to release how many times and the details of each time they used force to subdue a violent criminal. I'll be waiting.....
The policy also needs to be clear that the department's highest priority is the sanctity of life and that deadly force is "a matter of last resort" used only to protect the lives of officers and citizens, they wrote.
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this has ALWAYS been the rule ... what's new?
Need scripts for a proposed tv series: "Sheila and Craig Go to the West Side"
Proposals and titles can be place in any comment section on this blog. Keep it going:
Hey Sheila: I have a 14year old Grandson who is 6'1" 185 football and basketball varsity. Want to fight him? , let me know here I'll arrange it some where in my old neighborhood: Grand Crossing...
Old retired Sergeant..
The woman works for NU MacArthur school of social justice crying. Is that school tied to the Foundation? The Foundation supported the PATF. Do the, like the ACLU, accept any blame for the murder rate increase?
https://www.philanthropy.com/article/Opinion-How-Philanthropy-Can/237202?cid=cpfd_home
Many communities are trying important approaches, such as the MacArthur Foundation’s support for a Police Accountability Task Force that provided recommendations for building trust between police and black residents of Chicago. Showing Up for Racial Justice provided an indispensable list of black-led racial-justice organizations that are leading the way through this urgent social moment.
https://www.macfound.org/press/from-field/strengthening-police-accountability-chicago/
MacArthur joined several local foundations in supporting the activities of the Chicago Police Accountability Task Force, created to review the processes that hold Chicago’s police officers accountable
COME ON GROUP ................Ride A Longs for everyone............
Make it very public ......Body cams stay in the car the whole 9's
Maybe one of the "news" channels can get on board , imagine the ratings bump
Futterman and Bedi recommended that the policy forbid the use of Tasers or sprays on people older than 60 or younger than 18, as well as pregnant women.
Mike Brown was 6'4" and 300 pounds. So the day after he turned 18 we could taser or spray him? But the day before we would have to shoot him.... Or use a bulldozer to stop his robbery rampage.
How do street officer know for sure that someone is pregnant?? What if her belly ain't all swollen up? What she has a big coat on? What if she is a he ? A TIGN that identifies as a pregnant women?
Come on professors! What do I do NOW??
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Let Craig and Shelia do a few ride-alongs in 007, 011, or 015, on a busy Saturday night and have some 18yr old decide he's not going to jail without a spirited debate. I had to laugh where these two academics suggest no one older than 60 or younger than 18, and pregnant women, should not be tazed. I've seen 16yr olds that looked like they were 30. Do I have to call a time out and get their age? How about some crazy female...excuse me, but, before you ride the lightning, I have to ask you, are you pregnant or just fat?!! The highly educated are not highly intelligent.
12/07/2016 12:33:00 AM
Friend of mine is county sheriff at the jail he tells me many thugs are practicing how to move the body if tazed, if you keep moving a certain way looking like your having a shake seizure the prongs send signals that are interrupted and you can run as the prongs pop out. Be careful no matter what! carry a squint gun!
These are windbags who know nothing about real life, hands on police work.
" . . . encounters with civilians are appropriate only when there is probable cause for arrest or a public safety emergency."
Well then, I guess this just throws the L. McDonald case out the door. According to these "experts" who have worked the streets (how many years) their whole lifetime. Let's see, probable cause to arrest McDonald, CDTP (check), Aggr Asslt (check), armed and still public safety emergency(check). I would make them my defense lawyers or at least use them as experts.
Retired now but would have loved to take these three fucksticks-Granny Clampett and the 2 non experts-with me for one Tour Of Duty while working in 006. Would have arrived on any scene during the Tour and told them to handle the shit. Then we can critique it tomorrow. If you're still alive. They have NO FUCKING CLUE! Did work with Eddie Johnson in 006 and excellent street copper. Always a good time at watch parties too!
The media anointed those two "experts." He is former public defender who then had a firm that sued police officers. She was the deputy director of the Southern Poverty Law Center who sued prisons and law enforcement. They both are anti law enforcement but somehow none of that made it into the article. They are the last people who should weigh in on use of force policies.
My idea!! An "expert" shouldn't be able to chime in until they have had several hours worth of ride alongs so they then can Clearly interpret their opinion having had a small taste of what officers do daily.
Have these two libtards ride along on the night shift in Englewood for a month to see what the cops actually deal with on a daily basis. They'll come out of the experience as conservative Trump supporters.
It's easy to see where this is going and more likely to be adopted.
"The policy should begin with the premise that physical encounters with civilians are appropriate only when..."
Only when we folks say. Let us do what we want, when we want, where we want or else.
It's the Lefts interest to eliminate Police all together.
Why would any officer want to wrapped up in any Police ghetto action under these New Rules?
It's Rahm, his 50 alderstooges and Special Ed's job not yours, to shape the thugs into civilized citizens.
Rather than be a victim of Special Ed's MisUse of Force, just writing a case report for the D's will suffice as far as I'm concerned.
You can be proscetuted criminally and civily violation of ILCS, not some stupid department policy that contravenes the law.
In an effort to bring an even more restrictive response when employing the Use of Force model to my tours of duty I will only engage in metaphysical encounters. I hope this will suffice.
"The reasonableness of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, rather than with the 20/20 vision of hindsight. The calculus of reasonableness must embody allowance for the fact that police officers are often forced to make split-second judgments—in circumstances that are tense, uncertain and rapidly evolving—about the amount of force that is necessary in a particular situation. The test of reasonableness is not capable of precise definition or mechanical application."
Our society would benefit from listening to Rehnquist's opinion rather than listening to community activists, protesters, or ill-informed politicians who see issues in black and white instead of seeing the issues from the standpoint of objective reasonableness. Lt.S
Looking at that policy it needs to highlight that it is referring to "the sanctity of *offender's* life." Otherwise the entire policy makes no sense as if one is considering the sanctity of the PO's lives it shifts the entire paradigm back to common sense.
Granny Clampett has some writing to do.
"Perhaps the so-called "experts" would do better educating the community as to what sort of behavior is expected of them"
Starting with off duty firemen that want to play tough guy with a car full of idiots blocking the fire lane.
"Where is FOP on this ? shouldn't they be in attendance ? Don't safety concerns have to be negotiated ? Ah , it's campaign time i'll ask when dean comes to the district."
When you ask him and he decides to get in your face which he's notorious for, hopefully you'll tell him to park his runt ass before he finds himself on permanent disability. Boys & Grls it's high time you bite the hand that feeds you shit. Always remember, they work for YOU!
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