Tuesday, August 16, 2005

Why be the Police?

Debra Saunders, a columnist at the San Francisco Chronicle, writes a piece entitled "Cops Held to Impossible Standards." Click on the link and read it.
If you recall, L.A. police accidentally killed a 19 month old child as her father used her as a human shield while he shot at police, wounding one. The mother, predictably, blames the police for her daughter's death. Ms. Saunders takes her to task for her choice of domestic partners as the primary cause of her daughter's killing. It is quite refreshing to actually see a member of the media who "gets it."
We wonder what is expected of the police in this situation. Show up at a hot call and watch him kill people? Become targets ourselves? Sorry, not in the job description. Now that the Feebs and a US representative are involved, look for the investigation to really get f#$%ed up.


Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why didn't the police shoot the gun out of his hand if they thought he was dangerous instead of hitting the baby? I think Rep. Waters is right. They wouldnt have shot no white baby.

8/16/2005 03:42:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

go figure you have to be black because your using the race card, how about if this dubass never acted like he was there would have been no reason for the police to be there. BLAME THE CRIMINAL!

8/16/2005 03:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would have just seen situation and walked back to squad car, rolled up window, turned air on, and called for supervisor. The city doesnt want superheroes anymore. Screw most of these shitbag citizens. why should i risk my job and life? damn and i got 15 years to go.....

8/16/2005 04:15:00 PM  
Anonymous leftisthebest said...

Please check out the following story from this morning Sun-Times. Comments are welcome. It was probably an all GOP jury too!


8/16/2005 06:51:00 PM  
Anonymous crimefile said...

I have a problem with this shooting and an earlier 120 round clusterfu*k with the LA County Sheriff’s dept. Granted I’m acting as the Monday Morning Quarterback.

The shooting that took the life of the toddler is horrible. You can blame the kids doped up homicidal father all you want, but here are some troubling facts:

1. The officers knew the offender was using the kid as a shield. The officers could have kept themselves behind the available cover and concealment as this jerk fired his weapon wildly. Sooner or later the offender would have run out of ammunition. I must insist that the toddler’s life was worth the wait and limited risk that the offender might hit someone.
2. The SWAT team was there with rifles and did not take any shots until their target was fully obscured by a smoke grenade someone threw at the offender.
3. The toddler was killed by at least two rounds from a SWAT rifle.

I have a problem with this one and believe the CPD HBT would have handled this better.

The second event was the aftermath of a slow speed chase where the offender’s vehicle moved forward in the direction of a stopped squad car. No officers were in harms way as the group of deputies all unloaded in an embarrassing, over-reaction of sympathetic gunfire. 120 rounds were fired some of which enter homes above the first floor height. They hit the offender only twice in non-vital areas of his body. Another officer in the line of crossfire was shot in his vest. The suspect here was unarmed.

Both of these shootings are disgraceful and indicate serious training issues.

The residents of both of these neighborhoods are lowlife slime. Now the slime is laughing at the cops now ocer both events.

8/16/2005 07:09:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Anonymous,
if you can't handle the pressure of a situation without returning to your car, rolling up the window and calling a supvr. quit the job because that is about the biggest pussy response I have ever seen; let's call the supvr and let him handle my job for me because i'm a coward.
From A supvr.

8/16/2005 07:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Crimefile said...

There are two equally horrible risks involved to a cop’s career. One is the risk that you may be killed or crippled just doing your job. The second risk is that you become disgraced, fired and even prosecuted based on bogus allegations made be the members of society you’ve elected to serve and protect again just doing your job. I’ve seen fine officers become causalities of both hazards. One thing for sure if you put on your blinders and avoid the very people dangerous to both your life and career you will survive on this job a lot better. Too many residents of Chicago are not worth the gunpowder it’d take to kill them.

The results of this mix of humanity are a core of officers that only serve and protect each other. I say the politicians can accept the blame as they rig promotional exams, and cater to promotions based on clout and race rather than real qualifications. The politicians that demand officers be abused and fired as a way to win votes are despicable to say the least.

I will never forget how every cop that cane into contact with former Congressman Roman Pucinski’s drug addicted, burglar son would get either fired, demoted or reassigned as far away as he could be exiled. Eventually, the younger Pucinski went to the joint after volumes of cases against him were fixed.

Why put yourself at risk?

8/16/2005 08:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The police chief in LA is William Bratton. He is undoubtedly the best police chief seen in any major American city in the last 50 years. And there is not a better person in place in America to address situations like this.

When people in NYC pointed out the occasional excesses of the NYPD of those days, Bratton took tough action against those officers who intentionally engaged in wrongdoing. But in any case like this, I can't imagine Bratton kowtowing to the criminal elements and even questioning the actions of the officer.

The accused officer took his shots in the immediate defense of a fellow officer who was, at the time, under fire. What was the alternative for the accused officer who took the shots?

I can't imagine the FBI investigation going anywhere.

Did someone say to back off and let the offender continue shooting wildly? Back in '94, they used to train people in the Academy that a member of the HBT team was in a permanent coma or vegetative state after being hit by a one-in-a-million wild shot. So how far should they have backed off? Out of sight?

Ridiculous. No way is the FBI coming out against Bratton and his people.

Compare this entire incident with the city's "defense" of officers in similar situations. For all the good that's done by having Hillard appear in front of cameras and announce how wrong the officers were, Chicago taxpayers might as well have mailed $100.00 each to Johnnie Cochran.

Chicago should be so lucky.

8/16/2005 10:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Crimefile said...

Just because I hate those two shootings I don't see prosecuting the officers. I'd go for better training.

I'd have wanted the on scene coppers to back off as far as they could and not take shots at a target they could not even see.

I won't knock Bratton he's got to be heads and tails better than either Hilliard or Martin any day.

I hated the way CPD's finest would qualify for each other on the range. Some coppers have gone more than a decade without firing one shot on the range. That was really bad.

8/16/2005 11:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You may have a point from a liability standpoint. On the one hand, municipalities and such tend to be immune under most state laws for failing to act. On the other, there could be problems by responding and then backing off. If the baby still ends up dead (which is a very real possibility, no?), someone's going to argue in court that you acted but didn't act properly.

Politically its probably a bit of a wash, in the sense that you could be damned with a dead child either way.

And training-wise, its a disaster. Ultimately, it would fall to the field supervisors. And you seem to have been around long enough to know how much you can rely on a typical field supervisor to make any decision, let alone a good one. Other than Bratton, do you have any reason to believe that LA's could be trusted any more than Chicago's to make back-off exceptions?

Certainly not saying that no supervisors in Chicago make decisions under fire, and good ones. But I'd gigglesnort my diet coke if I ever heard anyone seriously argue that its anything like a majority of em.

8/16/2005 11:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Bush boy said...

Um, Lefty? If you could find a republican in Georgia 60 years ago, let alone an entire jury of them, I'd buy you dinner. Check the census and voting records.

And remember, the only current memeber of the US Government who has been proven a Klan member is the so called "conscience" of the Denate Robert C. Byrd (D (dimmocrap)-WV).

Stop hitting the Kool-Aid so hard, you're dribbling.

8/17/2005 12:25:00 AM  
Anonymous leftisthebest said...

BB the GOP tag was in half jest,
however I doubt highly any liberals were on that jury. The jury consisted of white males, most likely conservative in nature and in all likelihood members of the Klan.

You know BB, those good 'ole conservatives that burned churches and prohibited anyone from joining unless they were a WASP. The Klan also destroyed some Catholic churches in their heyday, a fact overlooked by most historians.

Why you ask? Members of Catholic clergy marched for equal and voting rights. Yea, you're right BB, alot of those good 'ole boys in those days were Democrats. Doesn't matter, a bigot is a bigot no matter their party line.

8/17/2005 04:49:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sounds like 15 years to go should find another job. You are a worthless piece of garbage and a disgrace to our profession. Get off my job you dirtbag.

8/17/2005 08:17:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

you got that right...we wonder why this job has gone downhill and why bosses are ball-less?? "15 yrs to go" is a prime example-he must be in training to be a future gold star. go back to my car & call a supervisor...what a pussy!

8/17/2005 09:37:00 AM  
Anonymous Northside said...

My instincts tell me that the last two anonymous posters are, indeed, "the REAL PO-leese".

8/17/2005 10:41:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ya, the real police. Until they take major time, or face separation. Then they will calm down.

8/17/2005 01:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

blow me!! you are just as big a sissy as "15 yrs"! when things get hairy, you must run & hide like a little bitch too!

8/17/2005 02:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah, that's right we are the real police and blow me can go to he-- too. who says either one of us haven't gotten time off or faced seperation. You haven't figured out that it's got nothing to do with calming down. It's having the guts to deal with what confronts you without passing the buck or calling a boss to figure it out for you. Until I leave this job i'll do what I swore to do. And it wasn't me that ran to the squad car like a bitch, it was yor mother.

8/17/2005 02:42:00 PM  
Anonymous 1st and 16th baby! said...

Settle down you company kiss ass. Hell you think Im going to risk my job security for some shithead on the street??? Hahaha think again, but than again you must be a real go getter doing all your court and special, you can have that BS. This is my job not my life, family comes first. So I am willing to dog it up the rest of my career and let you 3 year wonders fight the good fight. Woof woof

8/17/2005 04:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Spoken like a true coward, hopefully you work inside somewhere and do not have a partner that might depend on you. You do your fellow officers and the job in general a big dis-service every time you pin on the badge.

From A supvr.

8/17/2005 06:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Sgt. Scared??? said...

Hey Supvr, you make the big money I would lay all the choices on your head. If you dont like it go up to 016 where the police are just as scared as you.

8/17/2005 06:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Didn't anyone think of putting a drop gun on the baby?

It would of been all squared up then!

8/17/2005 06:49:00 PM  
Anonymous NorthSide said...

Re: YOUR First Amendment rights.

See my comment #13 under the "PUSSIFICATION" thread.

8/17/2005 08:41:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hey 1st & 16th, although i don't have 3 yrs., i have 19, i still enjoy this job & will do anything to help a fellow copper. you'd be a fool not to put your family first, but you can also be the police! if some fool pisses you off, there's a time and a place to take care of business...just be aware of your surroundings! i agree fat phil & daley & devine all suck. but we owe it to our fellow coppers to be the police!

8/17/2005 08:49:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, first off, I also believe in the 1st & 16th but I also believe in doing my job, assisting my fellow officers and making a decision wether right or wrong, I don't just throw my responsibilities on another supvr. just because he makes "the big bucks," It's called taking a stand, making a decision and living with it; as to being scared, I wasn't the one who said I would lock myself in my car and call my supvr. because i'm too big of a coward to handle the situation myself, and I don't work in 016 I work in the ghetto, not bragging, that's where I was sent, I sometimes wish I was in 016 to try and get these do nothings to at least protect the homeland. As of late things have gotten better in 016, at least on afternoons, alot of guys from working districts bid up to work in the neighborhood and started getting on some of the dogs; midnights is another story though, 99 units for most of the cars, hard to be real proactive I guess....
From A supvr.

8/17/2005 10:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey "big dis-service" supervisor. There was a man named Frank Pape who was 10 times the cop you'll ever be. He had a theory on police work. Society gets the police dept. it deserves. Well we know what the people want. So give it to them. I'll bust my ass for another cop, but fuck the public. As for the "job", what job? Do you think this shit is legit? Who's your daddy. Why do we have misdemeanor arrests? The only time someone gets convicted of one is when they plea down from a felony. Let the mutts run wild. Send the "victims" to see the warrant officer. These coppers are fucked over bullshit cases dropped by the stores. Fuck them. It's not my job to take assholes off the street for the night because someone doesn't want to deal with them. Let the fuckers get a summons and pursue their own case.

8/17/2005 11:41:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

spoken like a true dog! remember those words the next time some mutt bothers your family or burglarizes your garage and your fellow dog says go get a summons, i have no time or patience to lock anybody up or tour the area for the mutt!

8/18/2005 01:53:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The next time my garage is burglarized"? I think we live in differnet neighborhoods. Remember what words fuckface? I said I'd back up coppers. I'm a mutt? What are you a knight in shining armor? You think you're gonna get some pussy telling fake police stories at Dugan's. You'll do this and you'll do that, blah, blah. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I've done two trips to callback as a P.O.W. and been fired once. It took me 15 months to get back to work. I wasn't wasn't beating my old lady either fuckface. I got something you can save, my jizz in your throat. Fuck you, I'll give you a dollar if you can find your handcuffs asshole.

8/18/2005 06:33:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Someone please stop all of the TRU and S.O.S. guys stop posting about being the real police. Yes, go save the city with your one bag pinches, then go to Dugan's and talk about what a super bad-ass you are. Then go marry some police groupie skank and get a divorce.Become the cliche your were detined to be. As for myself, I have been the real police and will always be there for my fellow police and the citizens (all 3 of them that deserve it) but if you think I'm dumb enough to lose my job to look like a tough guy, think again. Any real man puts feeding his family before being what you consider the "real police". Easy to talk about kickin everyone's ass when you have 2 years on, no kids, low self esteem and a low I.Q. They wanted us to be the real deal years ago and let the police do what they had to do. If you want to clean up the city and then let the powers that be throw you to the dogs when Meeks beefs, go ahead. All the other real police will probably pay ypur bills for you, cause you ain't getting a good job with a criminal conviction and seperation from CPD on your record.

8/18/2005 09:36:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey 1st and 16th, i've been doing this job on the streets for twenty years. I'm no boss or company kiss ass so you go fuck yourself. Hopefully some slug like you will respond when your family needs help. Think they'll give a fuck because you are a cop? Don't think so and I hope they won't. If your family is first and you hate the job as much as it sounds like then get the fuck off it find another job so you can really put your family first. Until then your a policeman and you take a policeman's risk. Am I scared every day that some asshole is going to put me in a bind? Your fucking a right i am. But I'm man enough to overcome it and take the risk. And when I'm not I'll do something else instead of being a fucking coward like you and the rest of the idiots that agree with you. The lot of you wouldn't make a pimple on a real policeman's ass or the puss inside it. Like I said, get the fuck off my job and take the rest of your paycheck stealing coward friends with you. And while I'm at it you cocksucker, you'll never see me at Dugans telling stories to make me sound like a man. I'll leave that to sissy cowards like you.

8/18/2005 09:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ooohhh, you're a real man, you take a man's risks. You're standing out there on the edge. You might want to call Dr. Joel Kaplan for some penis enhancement.

8/18/2005 10:14:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sos and TRU are assholes first off, second there is a difference in being a coward or a dog. cowards are the pussy relatives of bosses, and women on this job( and throw in 016 coppers they might be the biggest pussies)dogs have time and know city and citizens dont care. Answer jobs and thats it no tickets or impounds. Let this city rot and walk around your "homeland" and protect it. The animals are at our doorstep in 016 better do something before we look like 015!!!!!

8/18/2005 11:13:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SPEAKING OF COWARDS...a sgt. in 022 pulled an officer out of roll-call on the 3rd watch last week, because the sgt. said he smelled alcohol on the officers' breath. granted, the officer is not a go-getter, but he was called on the carpet in front of his peers, a real ball-less move! he was ordered to blow on the box, and he blew.....ALL ZERO'S!!!! it's people like this that give 022 a bad name. of course, this sgt was the gretest policeman ever-just ask him.

8/18/2005 11:40:00 AM  
Anonymous Bending over backwards! said...

Wow 20 years on and still running around in the ghetto?? Why not patrol where you live and leave the mutts to die off slowly. Why are cops killing themselves in 007, 011, 015, and the other fast ghetto districts when the cops where they live (008 &016) arent doing a dam thing. Yes I am for the 1st and 16th, but if I was to work where I lived than I will work again (to keep the shitheads out) but until than I am going to dog it up in the ghetto cause they are getting the service they deserve from me, none! Woof Woof

8/18/2005 01:35:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why all the hostility towards 016? What did we do wrong?

8/18/2005 04:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr. 20 years if you put this or any job before you're family you are truly f'ed -up.Seriousy anyone that makes this or any other job their entire life is a miserable prick. There is nothing wrong with being the real police but don't make the fat ass and his cronies look good so that when you pull over some power hungry reverend they can snatch the job you love. They need to be sent a message......Let us be the police.

8/18/2005 05:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Where did it say anything about putting the job before family. My family is head and tails above the job. And where did it say anything about making anyone else look good. I do my job and then go home. Look, I understand some of the negative sentiment in that the public at large and the politicians don't back you up. But any of us with a lick of sense knew that BEFORE we came on the job. It didn't stop us then and it shouldn't now. Complaining about a condition that we all knew about beforehand and that has existed for decades is just an excuse for not doing the job. I'm not saying to work stupid but I'll be damned if I'm going to let some dirtbag force me back into my squad car, roll the window up and call someone else to do my job. Men a lot better than I'll ever be died wearing the uniform and I refuse to discrace it by running away and taking a posture of defeat.

8/19/2005 10:11:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hey 016 what you do wrong is do nothing for taxpayers in the district. You see a car load of gangbangers driving stop em and arrest them let them no it wont be tolerated, or are you too scared? Dont lock up coppers for duis you worthless fucks......People family comes first, ya i am proud to wear uniform but im not getting put in doc uniform cause i locked up some reverends gangbanging kid. Do want you want but fuck your benefit when you guys with 2 years on fuck up.

8/20/2005 01:12:00 PM  

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