Final Post About Sergeants Exam
We've run the gamut from serious to not so serious posts about the exam. We even gave full coverage to the amusing story making the rounds about a box of missing tests that provoked a flurry of late night phone calls among some of the exempts who surf the board. A last question for others who took the test along with some of us here.
What was the most effective study group that you joined? Was it the Robert's Study Group? Was it the Bernstein people? Or was it a group of coppers who got together and actually studied on their own? We heard a bunch of good things about one of the paying groups. Did anyone have a preference?
What was the most effective study group that you joined? Was it the Robert's Study Group? Was it the Bernstein people? Or was it a group of coppers who got together and actually studied on their own? We heard a bunch of good things about one of the paying groups. Did anyone have a preference?
posted by SCC at 12:05 AM
58 Comments:
#1 here and on the Sgt List. I KICKED ASS!!!!!!!!
Berstein wasn't that great.
Domestic - good
Pursuit - good
Discipline - good
Mom and 12 y.o - horrible
Caps - bad
Case Reports - poor
The subject matter expert was a Lt. from 006. Not very bright.
Multiple choice - excellent
Missing - O.K.
Next time!!!!
In years past, so-called "study groups" (by invitation only) were nothing more than a euphemism for the the clout guys who were briefed on the secret answers to trick questions.
"Notify the watch commander"
In my experience, successful preparation for a legitimate examination is a solitary endeavor.
For the $$$ charged, I felt the Berstein class was a total failure! The black Lt. from 006 was a complete embarrassment: I don't think he was correct in one thing he told us! Everyone was looking at eachother like, "what!!!???". How this guy got to be a lieutenant is a mystery...how he was picked to be a so-called "expert" for the Bernstein class is a fucking atrocity!!!
This is my second test, first time I paid for the study group. If I don't score well this time, there is no way I'll be suckered into all that cash for Bernstein again!
I'm sorry, but I'm still hearing crying about how hard work doesn't get you promoted on this job. It was in one of the other blogs. Hard work will not get you promoted or rewarded. Tell all your friends.
I think the scoring on this test will be the closest that it's ever been.
because anyone could have answered the questions without ever looking at a G.O.
every one that I talked to seemed to have about the same answers for the questions
it will come down to the few people that did not finish the test and the complete retards, and then time on the job. that will seperate everyone from a few points off the top
so for all of us that did study
I think there will be about 400 blue shirts that will know the G.O.'s better then their sgts
I went to both of the study groups and I think that Berstein was better for Mgt skills, but had no Idea about our dept's General orders
and roberts was good on the general orders..
however I don't think I would go to any of the study sessions next time
spent over 1000.00 bucks
just to know more then my dumbass clout sgt
good luck to all
if you make it, you earned it
To all the people who want to be sergeant, you can have it. All I do is moniter you idiot fucks on the radio and eat dunkin donuts every night I work. Sure I make the big bucks but I then got to answer up to the big guys over me, and they are some strokes. I studied the general orders every day before and after the test I took. I read CAPS shit and reread CAPS shit and reread the general orders. If you got two years on the job now, start reading every thing pertaining to the police department NOW, so in the next seven years or so, you can know everything like the back of your hand for the next test. I refused to take those classes where you coughed up $300.00 bucks to bernstein and the like, when all the info was there in front of you in the first place. Those guys that you are paying the $300.00 per part of the test session are actually laughing their asses off and you are making them rich. Fuck that. They are the ultimate con men, trying to give confidence to the feeble fucks. One general order every two days, is good enough. Know it and the rest comes easy. And then you can say you are listening to the idiot fucks on the radio and be bored out of your mind.
No contest! You can't go wrong with Daley's Office of Intergovernmental Affairs (IGA) "study group".
Bob Sorich & Tim Degnan
AMEN, I heard my same exact thoughts in print about paying that huge some of money for what? To get ripped off? To make some guy richer? All those classes are, are vacuums for sucking your money out your wallet.
Bernstein should be in the penitentiary. He has no clue about Policing in Chicago. Scam artist and a fraud at prices that should buy you the promotion! What an asshole!!
Someone was saying that the practice reports had the same narrative and victims between CJR and Bernstein. Anyone else see that?
I didn't bother to take the second part because the fix is in. To all the chumps who spent hundreds of $$$ to get a crappy job that puts you right back at the bottom of the seniority list, I hope you learned a valuable lesson that even the police can easily be duped when money and power are dangled before you like a carrot on a stick. You got scammed by a bunch of hacks who "teach" these nonsense classes. (Do you think they report all that income on their taxes?... I highly doubt it!) Minorities with clout are going to leapfrog right the hell over you and make Sergeant despite their lower scores and lack of studying. That's just the way it goes on this department. Wait until you find out you're # 279 on the list and they only take the first 250 or so after all the "management" picks. Was that $300 class really worth it? I don't think so. Some dude who can barely spell the word "dog" is gonna get your spot because he's got a phone call. That's life on the CPD. Sooner or later you'll understand the grumpy old timer in the blue shirt working the desk. The same guy who knows the job inside-out but was passed over for a promotion because some nitwit with an uncle who's an ADS got your job instead of you.
Two items from me on the blog tonight. #1.-I took Roberts classes and feel like I could have saved my money. #2. I just have to put this observation out on this blog even that I know it is off-post topic. The other day in 26th and California, a blonde female cop was going to court. She was cute, caucasion, hair in a ponytail. Approx. 5'05",130lbs. She wore a regulation blue sweater over her uniform. As I walked behind her I noticed she had her gun holstered in a pancake black- colored holster on her rear waistband. This was exposed as the sweater was hitched up over the sweater. What the F'er. The holster was squarely in the middle of her back. As she walked down the hall, I was just thinking of why the f*ck would you wear the gun in this style? Almost like , here is my gun , take it from me. THERE WAS NO WAY SHE COULD HAVE PROTECTED HER GUN FROM SOMEONE WHO RAN UP ON HER. And when she got into the same elevator with me guess who was in front of me in the crowded elevator. You guessed it. Blonde bimbo. I noticed one of the mutts looking at her gun with one of "those looks". I guess it was Gods' will that I stood in back of her instead of the mutt. I just felt this was so unsafe that I would post this to get my point out in cyberspace.
Whos the nut on zone 1 that does the Harry Carry voice? LMAO!
i would have grabbed her gun and stuck it up her ass the goofy bitch. i tell you these chicks will get you killed on the job. this is no laughing matter.
Some of the females don't even wear guns to court. Some excuses are, Eeeeeeek, it will mess up my dress. Eeeeek it makes me look fat in the hips. Eeeeeek, there's no place to wear it. I agree with having inspectors to gig these females and after the inspectors gig them they would have to be sent home without pay for court.
All I hear is bitching about clout. Did you study? No before you answer did you study? Did you sit down and study every order not once but twice? Did you stop your life to know these orders?
If you didn't and want to blame it on clout please stop crying and just admit you didn’t have the discipline to sit down and study. Admit it! Maybe next time you will be mature enough to study and not cry about it and blame it on clout.
I don't have clout and I studied my ass off! I did everything I could to know the GO's and related paperwork, since this test was announced. If I don't make it I will be devastated but will be satisfied with the fact that I did everything I could on my own to pass. Will you?
Berstein and Roberts a great combo! What the one lacks the other picks up.
so how many people actually took part II ? someone on 35th st should know this, right ?
What "black Lt." from 006 assisted in teaching the class from Bernstein? There's only one black Lt. in 006, and he just got there.
There were two before that, but they didn't stay there long. I don't think either one of them
was assisting in any study group
or pay study group. So who was the "black Lt." from 006? I only knew of one Lt. in 006 who was teaching in a study group, and he wasn't black.
with the clout scandals
once the scores are out the list should be posted for all to see
We should demand that the pink copy of the multiple choice section of the test be given to us and
the correct answers to the test should be published.
come on Donahue just beccause you and your crew didn't take the test (after all being a sgt would lower your standard of living)
no reason not to fight the good fight. maybe for the first time
6/30/2006 05:20:50 AM
why do you even care house mouse?
If I make Sgt I am going to the parish priest and go to confession. I don't deserve it, nope, not after 20 plus years at an entry level position. I get generalorderplebitis every time I open one of those miserable general orders. I get a sharp pain in my head every time I try to read one of those ridiculous compilations of reactionary bullshit.
The only legit thing is do not get hurt and back up your co-workers. All the rest is phony baloney bullshit.
too bad there wasnt any questions on lock-up procedures...thats my turf you know
according to statistics 70% of the test is common sense....maybe I'll grow some balls and take it one day
Study? Study what? If the general orders were so important than the first part of the test would count towards your ranking. It doesn't though. You know why? Because the shit bags that make up both parts of the test make sure that their kids and their kids friends get answers to the second part. The second part has easy question where about 90% of the officers answer the question the same way. It's a few words that a few people have been clued in on that will get them in the top 300. What a joke this department is. I don't even know how people get fooled anymore. We just watched weeks of trials showing how the fix is in on this city and people are still trying to claim it's legit. Unbelievable.
Yeah 70 percent is common sense, 30 percent clout. If you do not have clout the best you can do is 70 percent.
2 Black Lt's in 006, 1 old 1 new, The White Lt. Rizzi ran the best study group. I was there and I know I kicked ass on the test, going to buy my white shirts now.
Bernstein was good for the first part of the exam. He broke down every G.O. for you to read and gave tests. However, an fricking idiot could have passed the first part, so it was a waste.
Bernstein's second part was very poor. A complete waste of time. Unfortunately, the above post stated it best, coppers feel they need to be in a study group to do well on the test and waste their time and money.
To be successful on this test independent serious study is all it takes.
And to any fool who feels this test is legit, then you are a either plugged in or an idiot. IF this was legit, the answers and results would be publically posted for all to see and read. But there not and you have to trust the Dept to be honest with your career. Just like a phoney interview to get into a unit.
The true disgrace of the promotional exams is the selling out of the FOP to give the city 30% and not have them release the test or answers. That is the true disgrace! Remember the FOP agreed to this.
Berstein and Roberts a great combo! What the one lacks the other picks up.
6/30/2006 03:42:26 AM
I disagree. I got took for Bernstein on the last Det test and scored a whopping 1000!
This time I spent less and went with Roberts and got took again. Roberts Sgt "experts" were none too expert. They make these crazy assinine senerios up then give incorrect answers!
One senerio was regarding a TRR. Well, their experts (don't really want to out them) are all on units and obviously never personally did a TRR. They got it all wrong. Then once one of the students who was smart enought to bring the *instructions* for the TRR called them out, the experts just kind of huddled around the podium whispering to each other.
No clue. The Roberts brothers are nice people, but they need real "experts". I know it's a spot for those guys, maybe they will get a free Lt course if they help out, but that does not help the students that PAID you money for the class by having nitwits give us wrong answers!
No study group promises to make you in the top 100 on the test. Thousands of people take the test and there are only a couple of hundered who make it legit. Yes, you can make it legit. Of course, thousands will be crying foul when they get passed over. Why, 'cause every copper you meet is the most qualified, smartest, toughest, best in bed, etc. that you have ever met. Those study groups are meant to get you the couple extra points to help you make the cut, no one forces you to take them. Bernstein and Roberts didn't come into your living room and put a gun to your head and they certainly didn't hurt your score either. The only true gripe out there is 30% merit and the 35th. st. study groups.
You want to get promoted? Get away from the wife and kids, sequester yourself at a library for four or five hours, five days a week, read everything at least twice-technical shit at least three or four times, get a CR on anything that walks (in response to a scenario) and hope to make it in the first three-hundred. The guys w/o juice seem to place 200 and up. Bernstein panders to hard luck cases. He waltzes his four member rural department success stories in front of the classes to sing his praises. Tripe. Just memorize the crap. Answer like the company wants you to answer, shelve the "here's how it's down on the street" answer. Sieze the moment and work together to put an end to meritorious promotions.
Just a quick word regarding the "expert" brotha from 006 or wherever. The highlight of the class was when he said that if you do a street stop on someone named Patel, you better do a contact card because "he very well may be a terrorist". The look on the face of the Patel type officer sitting in front of me was classic. I can only imagine the todo that would occur if Bernie would have suggested you do a contact card on the next M/1 you stop because he's probably selling crack to the neighborhood children.
Great idea to sequester yourself away from your wife and kids for several weeks and go to the library 5 hours a day. I'm sure that would get you a spot in the top 200 on the list. Of course, your kids will probably grow up miserable and become crack addicts because "daddy wasn't there to help me with homework and watch my baseball games"... but you'll have those coveted Sergeant stripes!!!
Anonymous said...
2 Black Lt's in 006, 1 old 1 new, The White Lt. Rizzi ran the best study group. I was there and I know I kicked ass on the test, going to buy my white shirts now.
6/30/2006 08:14:22 AM
The same Rizzi, who made Lt. without taking the test??
6/30/2006 02:37:25 AM
you didnt take the 2nd part of the test because the fix is in?
you are a liar and an idiot.
Actually, I think the idiots are the guys like me who actually paid for two seperate classes that didn't seem to help much more than if I had just studied a bit more on my own. Wasted money on my part and a valuable lesson learned. :(
The integrity of the Chicago Police Department promotional process is above reproach--the "gold standard" for major metropolitan police departments.
Oh, by the way, CAPS works!
Judas Iscariot had all the right moves.
More Kool-Aid anyone?
The same Rizzi, who made Lt. without taking the test??
6/30/2006 02:26:41 PM
I'd still like to know the real story behind THAT!
I took 4 promotional exams in my career.I have taken the Bernstein course twice, once for the sergeant and once for the detective test(s). In hindsight, next time I'll just save my money and study on my own.
I have participated in other independent study groups. But, they don't seem as organized as the "invite only" groups that I could't join for particular reasons! (But, knew of "special people" who took it and did well because in their own words "we got sample tests and answers, blah,blah,blah!") ALL CLOUT BABIES!
Fuck the department promotional process. It only works legitimately for a small percentage of individuals who are extremely smart, or put their lives on hold for 6-8 months while they are holed up in the library studying for 4-5 hours a night! Option(2) just isn't feasible for the majority of honest hardworking cops with families and sidejobs.
AND THE MERIT PROCESS OPTION ISN'T AN OPTION FOR THE MAJORITY OF US FOR OBVIOUS REASONS!
My rant has ended..But, congrats to the hundred or so anonymous officers who just studied their asses off and did well without "the clout!"
Next time I will save the money..and join group 2, studying alone for months!
Tests don't work. Officers are mislead by paying big $$ for study groups by these so-called "experts" who hail from Florida and merit "policital, clout" promotions are worse. You might have good test takers that are complete nitwits on the job with absolutely no common sense and people skills and you have good hard-working officers who just don't get the promotional break. Here's the common sense answer:
1. no more tests. This will save money and all the other bs that goes on with these promotional exams. All the $$ spent just to promote 300-350 out of thousands of applicants is not reasonable. (good-bye Ernst & Young)
2. promote based on:
a. time on job (no one under 5 years can make Sgt.) For Det (D2A) after 3 years. Keep the dic test, ask questions that apply to investigations as a detective. It is much easier to go from patrol to detective than to patrol/dective to management. Promotion to Sgt is a management position, you shouldn't have to test to become a manager. It should only be based on job performance and other criteria. Sgts refer to the general orders to make the correct calls in emergency situtations....why make thousands of officers memorize these for a test??
b. number of arrests and successful prosecution, quality time spent in squad, i.e. tickets, contacts, on-views, back-ups, etc. (Anyone can ride around in a car for 8 hours, each lunch, take personals, visit the desk bunnies, etc. and do nothing.)
c. quality of written work (no 5th grade spellers-how can you correct others if you can't write a complete sentence yourself?) Review reports that officer wrote. This will show writing and communication skills, or lack of.
d. mandatory patrol/investigation time, no desk or house mouses need apply. If you want to be a Sgt., do your time on the street.
e. limited disciplinary history- SPAR and CR, (blatant disciplinary problems will eliminate you; realize good working police officers will get an occasional CR from the assh#*# citizen you just arrested. Complimentary histories should also be reviewed and taken into consideration.
f. no medical roll abusers need apply. They just become abusers with chevrons. LD officers go off LD, take test, get promoted then go back to LD with chevrons.
g. apply for position with detailed application and resume. Bonus for advanced degrees, bonus for advanced years, i.e. 15+ years. Any fictitious bs in the application disqualifies you.
h. no merits, no phone calls (a call from you alderman or Lt. you have been bl##ing will disqualify you......reminder: city hall, Sorich, truck scandal...just forget it!!!)
g. panel of "unbiased" supervisors and civilian supervisors with personnel management experience review applications meeting set criteria for eligible pool.
Knowing that there will be thousands of applications, set up a lottery system of who's application is viewed first, i.e. by seniority, last digit in ss#, etc.
Supervisor/civilians have to sign affadavit if they know you or have worked with you.
h. officers are notified that their application and resume have been reviewed and are either eligible or not eligible. Give the reasons why they aren't eligible so the officer can improve his/her perfomance or eliminate the deficiency to become eligible (they would have to re-apply with application and resume)
h. place acceptable applications in lottery or - pull numbers as you need Sgts to promote. The lottery would be blind as to gender, race and ethnic group. It's the luck of the draw.
The lottery and announcements of those who will be promoted will be public so that all interested could witness the calls.. no secrecy.
Applications and resumes expire after set amount of time. (for instance, same amount of time that a test is good for). Also, before Sgt candidate is promoted, a mini back-up review system should be in place in case the person really fu**ed up between application and promotion.
Keep in mind this job (Sgt) should be based on job performance, disciplinary history, complimentary history, time spent on job, and whether or not you abuse the system that protects us (medical) not on how well you take a test or who you know that will get you promoted.
Bernstein and Roberts didn't come into your living room and put a gun to your head and they certainly didn't hurt your score either.
-----------
Well, atleast they could get their own sh!t right!
6/30/2006 06:10:50 PM
I agree with roughly 50% of your post, the other 50% is almost retarded though.
To my two cents:
Almost well said. There should be some other type of criteria for the promotion process.
How the department can promote people simply on taking a test when they in fact came up with six (6) pages of a "List of Important Knowledge, Skills, Abilities and Personal Characteristics for the Sergeant Position" {Appendix B in the Candidate Preparation Guide for the Assessment Excerise) that their test does not measure defies logic.
2 cents:
Sounds like a merit process to me. Or at least the banding that's done to come on the job. You know - "well qualified", "qualified", etc...
How about actually testing using texts on management as New York does and combining that with a weighted bonus scale for years on the job like the service does.
There are all kinds of scenarios and testing processes that would make the promotional process run better, but typically it all has to go through the hall, which fucks it up!!!
Do a search for the Chicago Sergeants Exam on Google and find the link at Kenlaw that explains all of this. It shows the various types of tests and the performance by all segments of the population. Once you read that, then come back and see if you still want banding.
Remember: banding means no one knows exactly how the candidates are picked. Which method do you think that the city would prefer?????
Those promoted by the merit system who actually have shown both observable and measureable management skills are just as good, if not better, than the bosses that are the "test-takers".
Lets re-think the promotion process rather than taking ideological positions.
The "Merits" are just as good as the "Test-Takers"? You must have some shitty bosses.
Remember: banding means no one knows exactly how the candidates are picked. Which method do you think that the city would prefer?????
6/30/2006 07:27:54 PM
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Cmon, that question is so loaded that it should show up on the test itself.
News Flash: THIS JOB IS NOT LEGIT! NOTHING ABOUT IT! NO ONE DAMN THING!
6/30/2006 06:10:50 PM
Get a life.
I WENT TO THE STUDY GROUP AT THE MT GREENHOOD LIBRARY WITH THE LT FROM 009. I'M NOT A BIG FAN OF HERS BUT SHE GAVE A GOOD CLASS AND SHE WORE HOT PANTS. IT ONLY COST ME $20!
The 1st part of Robert's class had approx. 700 students (could be closer to 950) at $200 a piece. That's $140,000 for an 8 week class. And part 2 had approx. 500 students at $250. That's $125,000 for another 8 week class. That' is where the money is not being promoted.
$265,000 for working 16 weeks. There is no way his over head could be more the $50,000. What a nice profit.
I will never do that again. And if I make sergeant I will forget about going for lieutenant and just run study classes for extra money.
Suckers, it ain't legit....Read up on your own, learn to make a decision and back it up somehow, and maybe you'll get lucky and fortune will smile upon you for a change and you'll get a rank in the first hundred or two. As far as stressing, paying other people to feed you bullsh*t and worrying about what everone else has..you'll drive yourself to an early grave.
Look for a fall class of sgts. coming soon...the merit nominations real soon. Heard 75 at least in the class.
In the name of common decency. please use quotation marks whenever you mention the word "merit" or "meritorious" in the CPD.
Better yet, just call them the CLOUT nominations.
The Sup wans the cream of the crop from the new list. Jnrette has garunteed the results by 18 Aug. Expect a class of 125 from the new list by 5 Sept.
Sorry to those left on the old list. Hope you took and did well on this one
The Sup wans the cream of the crop from the new list. Jnrette has garunteed the results by 18 Aug. Expect a class of 125 from the new list by 5 Sept.
This is dumbest post in a long time. I'm sure you are not one of the cream of the crop since you can't spell and your facts are crap. The only contractual guarantee of the test maker is that each test will be graded by three individuals. It will take one month just for the nitwits downtown to "analyze" the results so they get the "results" they want and need. There will be another class of the old list as there should be.
A Lt from 022 days ran a class for free, and it was pretty good. Can't remember the name though....
The cream of the crop? Know any merit surgeons, or merit lawyers? How about merit airline pilots? Thirty percent off any list from any test are morons, or outfit connected (yeah, they still make calls, too), or whores, or just, er, Irish! Can't beleive how many merit white sergeants go back to the D. First we dump daley. Second we compile a list of the misdeeds of these meritorious and obtain their race and test score. Finally we challenge this systems for what it is, clout. Now is the time to strike.
How about the merit Sgt. from NAGIS
They were brought back within 6 months.
What a joke. Bring back a guy who made it legit.
Black/White/Hispanic
Merit Sgt. = $200K-$400K gift
Enjoy that.
Most Merit Sgt. come back and pretend they earned it.
Want me to name a few?
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