Police Board Stats
From Frank Main's article in the Sun Times, a look inside the final dispositions of cases that go before the Police Board:
- Nearly a quarter of the officers who faced termination hearings before the Chicago Police Board in 2004 and 2005 were found not guilty, according to a report by the board.
Police Supt. Phil Cline sought to fire the 29 officers over a variety of allegations including drug abuse, excessive force, domestic fights and committing crimes. Of those officers, seven were found not guilty. Ten were found guilty and fired. The other 12 were found guilty and suspended.
So of 29 Officers threatened with the ultimate sanction, 19 (two-thirds) had their charges dismissed or reduced to suspensions and reinstated. We're debating whether to (A) consider that a tribute to the safeguards put into place to protect Officer's rights and due process OR (B) wonder why the Department Administration is in such a rush to go before the Board with cases that NEVER should make it that far. Of course, these comments appear later in the article:
Kurt Feuer, a civil rights attorney, said the numbers highlight the difficulty of getting rid of the department's bad apples. He pointed out that the disciplinary cases are the outcome of thousands of complaints against Chicago Police officers each year.
"Even when the police department wants to discipline them, there is another hurdle, the police board," Feuer said. [emphasis added - SCC]
First of all, if there were only 29 cases over two years that went as far as the Police Board, we believe that is more indicative of OPS's tendency to take complaints for everything under the sun, regardless of whether it is in fact a violation of Rules and Regulations, Department policy or the law. And we don't consider a hearing before the Police Board to be "another hurdle" as the civil rights attorney does, but rather a SAFEGUARD against half assed prosecutions of the police. Because we believe that the VAST majority of police officers are simply guys and gals trying to do their jobs, go home safe, and make life a little easier on the citizens who are the victims of ne'er-do-wells.
Twenty-nine cases out of thousands? Perhaps the clients of this attorney cried wolf a few thousand times too often. Another lawyer against the wall once the Revolution arrives.
Twenty-nine cases out of thousands? Perhaps the clients of this attorney cried wolf a few thousand times too often. Another lawyer against the wall once the Revolution arrives.
posted by SCC at 5:55 PM
51 Comments:
first in the 24th
Seiser is 1st in the 24th!
They have to appear as if they are "weeding" out the bad apples. However they seem to weed out the wrong ones and let psychos like Felician Vitca and John Kaporis stay on this job! One likes to sexually harass female motorists while the other one is into insurance fraud! NICE JOB CLINE!
But the department has to hang someone when the public is demanding a hanging! Van Watts for breaking out the window of a car driven by a guy that tried to kill him? The two from 006 (who killed Latanya Haggerty) for NOT terminating a chase upon orders to terminate if it was only for traffic, when the evidence clearly indicated that the chase was NOT only for traffic and the termination order thus did not apply? Two guys from 017, one of whom may have struck a detained asshole who failed to inform the officer that there was a razor blade in his pocket?
All witchhunts and scapegoating.
Now how about Frank Main look at the children of senior supervisors who were not brought before the Police Board, and who the department tried to cover at any expense?
Guy in 011 maybe chokes an offender to death and attributes it to the offender choking on druges, 'cept that the drugs were in his stomach and not his airway. Coroner calls it out, the city pays it out, and junior? My God, was he promoted?
Sergeant in 017 or 019 or whatever follows a woman out of the district, allegedly upon his order to drive to a secluded spot. Yada yada yada. The department buries the complaint for months until a videotape surfaces?
I honestly don't know, but were the kids in 011 or the sergeant in 017 or 019 brought before the board?
I suspect I know the answer. Yeah, its all legit.
Every day the guys from 017 from that Target incident aren't on the street is a day that Cline and co. should PRAY for forgiveness. That fat fucking prick and almost anyone else would have smacked the kid, and most of us (me included) would have done a lot more than a smack. Any of us would have broken the window with the butt of a gun in Van Watt's shoes. And more than a few of us would have continued chasing the car Haggerty was in, and would have shot her under the circumstances. And the "leaders" of the department would bring any of us up, as long as our mommies and daddies aren't leaders of the department.
Yeah, its all legit. Its the world turned upside down here.
OOO-KAY...god forbid you ever step in some shit 6:32...because everyone who wears the badge (and IS THE REAL POLICE) eventually steps in shit...so, what's the lesson here sir? GET SOME CLOUT! or try being the levelheaded, knowledgeable and tactical officer that you are trained to be. And by the way, posting alledged "incidents" of police misconduct is not very levelheaded on a public forum.
6:32:44 is an idiot. Nuff said.
I wouldn't say 6:32 is an idiot. Seems like he brings up some valid points-arguing that you should accept the unfairness because that's the way it is and will be and should be etc...is just being a coward. Stand up for what's right. The Chicago system of clout and nepotism is not the right way, and not the only way, and there's nothing wrong with pointing that out.
6:32 IS RIGHT!!! Got it Boss!!!???
I'm 6:32, and every single word I posted is part of the public information that has been posted in the media previously.
Are either one of you two jagoffs saying that Van Watts, the two or three from 006, or the two from 017 are being or were treated fairly (the same as all other members of the department would be)?
Are either one of you two jagoffs saying that the two chokers from 011 or the north side sergeant are being or were treated fairly (the same as all other members of the department would be)?
Because, if thats not what you are saying, than you agree with me. And no, I can't get some clout, because I can't change who my parents are. They are not J. Pestka or J. DeLopez. Or Phat Phil Cline for that matter. So NO, I can't get that clout.
Do what I was trained to do? What are you saying, choke someone to death? Maybe solicit sex in exchange for a pardon from a ticket? Does that get me covered, and even promoted after the city pays off the plaintiffs?
Or how about this? Follow an order that wasn't given? Sit back and let someone level a gun at me from inside a car I've just chased for miles, when the car has tinted windows that I can't see through? Not ever react like a human when a piece of shit arrestee lies to me and allows me to cut my hand with a razor when I search his pockets? What can I hope for? Fat Phil or former Superintendent Mumbles to badmouth me in the media?
Yeah, I'll get right on it. Will you come to my funeral motherfuckers? Fuuuuuuckkkkk yoouuuuuu. You are either clout bunnies or two clueless pieces of shit who defend the system. Keep drinking the Kool Aid.
They never said a word badmouthing the first two, but they took EVERY opportunity to badmouth the POs in the last three. Difference? The first two were wrong but connected, the POs in the last three were right, but unconnected.
Again, fuuuuuccccckkkkk yooooouuuu!
To 6:32 and 7:52, you know they sell it in decaf now.
Can I get some of your Kool Aid instead?
10 - 1 Benefit~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Speaking of firing people . . Tonight – 2 June is the benefit for Tom Munyon – 015 at the FOP Hall
This is the heroic officer that stole a chunk of money out of the Danny Doffyn trust fund (the fund for his little daughter’s education)
All ye come and support this wonderful officer for the great thing he did.
F*ck FOP and THIS JAG
Anyone got the balls to talk about murders that were covered up? Menard and Madison? A suspicious out of state drowning? Suicides with coppers guns?
Anyone going to the party at FOP hall today? I heard strippers will be there from 2200 til 0001. See you there
dear 823 yeah I heard john stroger did himself when he found out the knuckle dragging "huh" "what" speaking it commander of 021 was his niece but the "machine" is keeping him alive
6:32....You must work a citywide unit to have been at all those situations and be able to call them that way. What make us anymore right to call these situations than it does the city? If you weren't there stfu!!!
What about a copper who was disability and gets caught working for the cook county sheriffs board. When the pension board finds out about him working full time at the county and collecting a disability pension they have him indicted. He then gets back on the job and worked in call back for about 18 months. He was indicted on 32 counts of mail fraud and was able to plea bargin it down to 1 count of simple theft. Would you believe he is back on the job and working in the court section?
This job is legit.
Posting stuff that came from the media, well geeze, thats gotta be true!
It is like the USMC ... the Corps covered ass .. In our business ass sometimes needs covering for the greater good
The identity of SCC is easily revealed. Here is how I did it:
First, thoroughly examine all of SCC threads and posts. Keep in mind that SCC will not post on a Department computer. This takes a huge amount of time but if one examines this data closely you can determine SCC's day off group and watch. Note: remember to eliminate the high and low variables to account for days SCC takes off or is on furlough.
Second, read through SCC posts and you will be able to determine which district SCC works in. Small details add up to an obvious conclusion of what district SCC works in. Hint: It is a north side district.
Third: Now you know his RDO and district take a look at things like SCC's profile and hints he has left about the amount of time he has been on the job.
Finally, you will be down to just a few candidates. It will then become obvious--yet surprising (I know this is an oxymoron)--who SCC is.
SCC is a good guy (another hint) and copper. I hope he does not take too much heat once his identity is finally revealed.
Hopefully, not too many people have as much time on their hands as I do.
Dear 8:52 and 8:56, you two must be the same two (or one) as before. The information that came from the media was sourced entirely to the city, the county and the CPD brass.
Allegations from the brass about the three incidents brought to the board unjustly were all from Terry's mouth and Phil's mouth. They were repeated by the media. I'm damning them with their own evidence that shows the truth.
If YOU have one thing that you believe or can show is untrue, than state it, or better yet, show it. But playing the dumb and dumber game is just play dumb.
Every word is true. Disagree? Tell me what you disagree with. Otherwise, you shut the fuck up. SCC, it appears that some of your readers include the apologists.
Dear apologists: Show ONE FUCKING WORD to be false. I double dog dare you, bootlickers.
Hey 9:22...
laptop
wi-fi
anywhere
anytime
Off Topic
I qualified last week and for the first time in 20 years I was given different rounds for my .38. Are these 125 grain .38 rounds as good as the 158 grain rounds that we have been using or should I keep using my old rounds.
thanks for any information
I work in 019 and he was my Sergeant!! I know he took the pictures because I saw them.....Of course, I would have been fired LONG time ago!!!
The version of the Robert Russ incident is completely fucked up. The Russ chase was started by "Bannanawitz", who is one of the biggest jagoffs I've met on this job, and is now a Sgt in 014. The P.O. who killed the offender got jammed for lying about how he broke the window and the tool he actually used to do it. Russ never attempted to kill the officer but did attempt to disarm him. No one pointed a gun at the P.O. Ramble on some more like the crazy fucker you are. And no, my version did not come from the media. And I'll say this about Haggerty. Shooting out the window of a moving police car at another moving vehicle with unarmed occupants and then denying it happened for a SUBSTANTIAL period of time is a pretty tough pill for the department to swallow. And if you don't think that shit goes on get out of your spot. I handled a police shooting two or three years ago from a much maligned unit where over 40 shots were fired by three different officers and everyone denied they shot for over two hours. There is no doubt bosses kids get breaks on this job, but repeating rumors and flat out making shit up to make a point causes people to dismiss your argument. You're only shooting yourself in the foot.
To any PO who wants to know what the police board is about go down there sometime and sit in on a hearing. The police board doesn't even care enough about the PO's life being ruined to sit through the hearing. You get some hearing officer and then allegedly the police board gets the whole hearings transcripts and of course each member takes their time and reads all this shit and then decides the PO's fate. Now of course we all believe that those people on the board read all the transcripts. The police board does supply a good outlet for Daley's law firm friends to get contracts to be "special" corporation counsels. Also provides a good outlet for fat Phil, asshole Terry and other Supts. and their dickless exempt ranks to fuck over police officers who have no clout. Now that is the truth I've been there Ive seen my friends go through it also. That is all the police board is so for the average PO out there be careful cause you are just one hard on away from 30 pending. Believe me I know what I am talking about.
So which is it, wrong to post because its not public, wrong to post because it is public but from the media, or wrong to second-guess the guilty sons of top bosses who get off scot free when the innocent sons of nobody get railroaded in a kangaroo court?
Are all those words lies, or does the truth just make some people uncomfortable?
6/02
10:40pm
I think what everybody needs to understand and be honest and admit some cases are justified as you pointed out. But lets be truthful here fair and impartial like the general order says is all bullshit. We all know bosses and we all know of incidents where the chosen have fucked up real bad and walked away sometimes even went on and got promoted after the fact. I surely don't know the answers but hey fat Phil and those who cover up wrong shit and those who get away with bad shit got to look at themselves in the mirror. In the overall scheme of things they are just little fucking jag offs who without this fucked up job would be nothing. And someday they will be off this job and will be remembered for the dishonest pukes they were. Great legacy huh?
10:40:
For the Russ incident, were the windows tinted and up? End of story. It wasn't meant to say that he had a gun. It was meant to say, after you chase the guy for miles and he tries running you off the road, do you sit there in a standoff when he's curbed? If you say yes, than name ONE time that has EVER happened in the CPD. ONE TIME. And if the standoff were policy, than what am I to do if the guy has a gun that I can't see through the tinting? Funeral time, huh?
Should Van Watts have been the first time anyone has ever stood off for no known reason?
This one is clear as day.
And for the LaTanya Haggerty story, was it shooting out the window or refusing an order that the city hung em on? Look it up and get back to me. I'll be right here.
Like I said, the city's own allegations and evidence were EXACTLY what showed the POs to be innocent in both cases.
"Or how about this? Follow an order that wasn't given? Sit back and let someone level a gun at me from inside a car I've just chased for miles, when the car has tinted windows that I can't see through?"
"It wasn't meant to say that he had a gun".
I'm not arguing with anyone who denies what they wrote in a previous post even though you just have to click the mouse to read it. Just keep on shaping your "story". You're an idiot and now you're in an internet fight and acting like a child. No one wants to deal with irrational people that have rage. That's why you work 99. Go wax your dolphin.
Did they really hang him on paper for "lying" about what he used to break the window?
I remember something about breaking the window with a gun butt being an issue, but there was also a lot of talk about breaking the window at all instead of calling for ???*
If it was really for "lying" about what he used to break the window, that is sooper pimpy. Was the department saying on paper that it was okay to break the window just as long as you say how you broke it truthfully later? Because publicly, the statements were all he shouldn't have broken the window... he should have waited for ???*... etc.
Either way, its all BS.
* And who should he have waited for anyway? The chaplain? A HBT team? Supervisor?
Yes, but mostly for the tool he used.
The saergeant from 019 coulda taken pictures!!
Gee 11:06, you really proved the point I'm making. You are a blind apologist for the lynching party.
If its tinted windows, how do I know if someone is leveling a gun at me? The guy just tried killing me, but now I'm supposed to assume its all safe because the car is curbed?
The point is, I don't know if he has a gun pointed at me.
Thus, in context,
"Sit back and let someone level a gun at me from inside a car I've just chased for miles, when the car has tinted windows that I can't see through?" should be clear to anyone with reading skills. The city's view is for me not to find out, so this can happen if he is leveling a gun at me. Whether someone does or does not have a gun under the circumstances, is fairly well irrelevant.
Or are you saying you would assume he does not? Yup, you work the streets all right.
11:13pm
Wasn't the window broken to get the jagoff out of the car? Jagoff grabbed coppers gun jagoff got killed.
For the tool he used, for lying about which tool he used, or for using any tool to break the window?
Any of the three is a crock. Nobody should be second guessing a reaction under these circumstances, and if it was a boss's kid, nobody would have.
11:17, an "exact" motive is hard to say, but its fairly clear that it would all fall under the umbrella of "to eliminate the threat" which he had every right to fear.
Argue the Russ incident all you want. If you become the media's whipping boy. Or Cline or Hillard or those like them get too much heat.Or you are the subject of some westside gog ass reverend. You get fucking fired end of fucking story.
11:20pm
"dog ass reverend"
To Off Topic
10:30pm
Those new 38 rounds are supposed to be better than the old ones we carried. Go ahead carry the 125 grain I think they are better than our old lead ones.
Anonymous said...
...If you become the media's whipping boy. Or Cline or Hillard or those like them get too much heat....
Amen, and unfortunately 110% true! Boss, bosses kid, someone not "connected" or has no phone call; If your ass is in the hot seat, and there is a political motive behind the issue, hope to god the politics are on your side! If you’re "connected", "they" are going to save you quicker. You become some reverend or alderman’s “hard-on”, Your F.U.C.K.E.D.!
Hell, anyone pisses hot for Coke should get launched! But if you’re a boss, all you have to say is "some stripper put it on my dick" and you’re absolved of sin. ( I don’t believe she put it on her lips, cause that brother wasn’t eatin' no snatch!)
Most coppers start digging a hole for OPS and IAD by completing horrible two/froms.
The G.O.'s and ILSC should be a officers best friend. I always quote state laws, GO's, and department policy in my to/froms. Doing so provides absolute proof that I had authority to do what I did. I think the quotes help because sometimes sgt’s are just as confused as PO’s as to what you can and can’t do. Also, Sgt's handling CR’s have the most influence on CR’s because its to much of a head ache for the chain of command to change the sgt's recommendations. My hole point is use there own words and laws to protect yourself. Keep yourself updated on policy and for gods sake ask for advise if you don't know.
You cannot use any kind of statistical analysis for police board cases. Each case is individual to itself. To say that only a certain percentage of officers are fired (or not fired) doesn't mean a goddamn thing. EACH CASE IS AN INDIVIDUAL ENTITY, with it's own good and bad points.
That's part of the problem with the media and police bashers. They want percentages. High percentages likely. There isn't a copper on the job who hasn't fucked up and got away with it....who has had a complete bullshit lie told on him, or in a few cases, was guilty as sin.
Due process is what we're talking about here. I know in my own experience, every single beef I ever got was bullshit. I've made some mistakes, but never got a CR on them, but each CR I ever did get was bullshit. So what would the percentage be on that? If the police bashers faulty statistical logic was in place, I should have been whacked a few times.
If the board fires everyone out of 40 cases, or exonorates everyone out of 40 cases, it doesn't mean shit. Each case is it's own.
Wha the public wants is a "yes sir, no sir" eunich who kisses their ass, unless they're a victim, then they want fire and brimstone.
my 2¢
Hey, leave Kaporis alone. Nobody want him. Even after his domestic related HBT! Takes a likin and keeps on tikin.
1:53, I agree completely. Everybody screws up some time or another. Some of us never get into the clusterf***s that others do, largely by luck of the draw.
All thats been pointed out is that when its our turn, they'll hang us out in a heartbeat for any reason. They'll hang us out even when we are not wrong, by mischaracterizing the evidence one way when their own evidence can be turned back on them to exonerate us.
But if its a bosses kid, where perhaps publicly accusing the kid would embarass the bosses and/or the mayor? Shhhhhhh.
Which is all to say, the police board is used as a political instrument. Hang somebody unjustly when the reverends are screaming for blood, but don't touch nary a hair on the head of a clout prince if it will humiliate the mayor's people (and the mayor himself by extension).
did nt he start a fire at some station?? hahaha..he is a Funny Funny man..Ka-por-is
My favorite thing about the Latanya Haggerty shooting was the Daley political machine putting out a rumor that Serena Daniels had an affair was ex/girlfriend of the driver of the car they were chasing. None of that rumor had any truth to it but it was strongly circulated.
>>The version of the Robert Russ incident is completely fucked up.<<
Great, this should be fun.
>>The Russ chase was started by "Bannanawitz", who is one of the biggest jagoffs I've met on this job, and is now a Sgt in 014.<<
This has exactly WHAT to do with the point about Van Watts being scapegoated? Wow, second sentence and you were already trying to change the topic! Good job Terry.
>>The P.O. who killed the offender got jammed for lying about how he broke the window and the tool he actually used to do it.<<
Liar. The PO got jammed up because Terry needed to find a scapegoat. Did you help him find Van? I have to think so, because I've NEVER heard anybody defend this garbage outside of the reverends and Terry.
>>Russ never attempted to kill the officer but did attempt to disarm him. No one pointed a gun at the P.O.<<
Like was posted, how was Watts to know if a gun was pointed at him or not UNTIL he broke the window.
>>Ramble on some more like the crazy fucker you are. And no, my version did not come from the media.<<
Thanks for coming out from retirement Terry. FWIW, you should probably stick to typing because we wouldn't be able to understand any of this if it came out of your mouth.
>>There is no doubt bosses kids get breaks on this job, but repeating rumors and flat out making shit up to make a point causes people to dismiss your argument. You're only shooting yourself in the foot. <<
Maybe I missed it. Did you show something to be a lie? It sounds like you threw out a blanket defense, a couple of names, and then declared yourself holy. No doubt the skills that get you ahead in Chicago
Am I Wrong?
Van Watts took a two week suspension and is still on the job, hiding in special events.
He was not fired as in the the Haggerty case.
Police Board could not fire him as he already took the two week punishment, and you cannot be disciplined twice for the same thing.
BOTTOM LINE. YOU BETTER HAVE "CLOUT" IF YOU GT IN THE SHIT.
WHERE FRANK MAIN WHEN YOU NEED HIM?
HEY FRANK! HOW ABOUT A STORY ABOUT POLICE BRASS KIDS BEATING THE SYSTEM AND GETTING PROMOTED!!!
LEADERSHIP??? A JOKE!!!
9:56, I don't think you are wrong about the two week thing, though I don't recall how that came about. Don't remember if that was the original CPD punishment, a punishment handed down by the Board (firing reduced after review by the board), or a reduction after review by a court or arbitrator.
What I do know is that superintendent mealy-mouth badmouthed him almost immediately. Publicly badmouthing your employees before any investigation is NOT a good leadership move, and he should pray for forgiveness for the numerous times he did that.
However, he was involved in the Robert Russ case, not the Haggerty case.
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