A Quota? Again?
Why is it the worst ideas seem to pop up with astonishing regularity?
As one of our readers has so helpfully posted in half a dozen threads, there is a rumor of a "quota" system arising again, this time in Area 4. We aren't sure if it's alleged for the Area Saturation teams or includes all Area Tactical and Gang teams. Last time this happened, the captain authoring the memo outlining the point system and the Commander signing off on it weren't disciplined in any way shape or form and the Deputy Chief who approved it was promoted to Chief of Detectives and is the inside favorite for Superintendent. Maybe this is a plot by the Area 4 Deputy Chief to become Chief of Detectives when that spot opens up?
Anyway, a quota system is a bad idea. Always has been, always will be. Everything you do will be judged against "What were you required to bring in to keep your car/spot/team/start time?" Allegations of "railroading" defendants will skyrocket. It'll be a blizzard of defense motions to produce paperwork, grading systems, rating sheets and all the attached nonsense. Then the appeals will demand to know who developed the rating systems, who assigned what points to what types of arrests? Why is this pinch worth more than that one? And once that genie is out of the bottle, oh boy.
Do we need something, some set of goals that officers can strive toward in order to get the choice assignments, the teams, the cars and the truly deserving merit promotions instead of political hacks getting rewarded for bloodlines or phone calls or such? Sure. But developing something fair and impartial? We'll be on Mars long before that happens in this city.
As one of our readers has so helpfully posted in half a dozen threads, there is a rumor of a "quota" system arising again, this time in Area 4. We aren't sure if it's alleged for the Area Saturation teams or includes all Area Tactical and Gang teams. Last time this happened, the captain authoring the memo outlining the point system and the Commander signing off on it weren't disciplined in any way shape or form and the Deputy Chief who approved it was promoted to Chief of Detectives and is the inside favorite for Superintendent. Maybe this is a plot by the Area 4 Deputy Chief to become Chief of Detectives when that spot opens up?
Anyway, a quota system is a bad idea. Always has been, always will be. Everything you do will be judged against "What were you required to bring in to keep your car/spot/team/start time?" Allegations of "railroading" defendants will skyrocket. It'll be a blizzard of defense motions to produce paperwork, grading systems, rating sheets and all the attached nonsense. Then the appeals will demand to know who developed the rating systems, who assigned what points to what types of arrests? Why is this pinch worth more than that one? And once that genie is out of the bottle, oh boy.
Do we need something, some set of goals that officers can strive toward in order to get the choice assignments, the teams, the cars and the truly deserving merit promotions instead of political hacks getting rewarded for bloodlines or phone calls or such? Sure. But developing something fair and impartial? We'll be on Mars long before that happens in this city.
posted by SCC at 12:05 AM
76 Comments:
Le me understand, if I don't make the quota I will get thrown out of an Area 4 Distric?
So What!
ILLEGAL POLICE QUOTAS: DO THEY REALLY EXIST?
by John Lee
Strictly speaking, a driver can register a BAC of .00% and still be convicted of a DUI. The level of BAC does not clear a driver when it is below the "presumed level of intoxication."
--verbatum quote from 1999 Tennessee Driver Handbook and Driver License Study Guide
It is illegal for law enforcement agencies to issue quotas for citations or arrests of individuals.... The Fraternal Order of Police strongly disagrees with this illegal action and respectfully requests you rescind this action of supervisors at the Knoxville Police Department.... If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's still a duck. It's a quota.
--Edward Daniel, attorney at law
Cops have a[n illegal] quota system.
--Sgt. James Eagan, New York State Police (Retired), from his book, A Speeder's Guide to Avoiding Tickets
I was put under pressure. It was like a race. How many more people can we get today?
--arrested Knoxville, Tennessee, police officer describing the government's illegal quota
KNOXVILLE, TENNESSEE, POLICE DEPARTMENT MEMOS
Do illegal police quotas really exist? Dare to decide for yourself -- YOU be the cop, prosecutor, judge and jury.
EAST DISTRICT CONTACTS
COUNSELING-
*UNAWARE OF TRAFFIC PROBLEMS ON BEAT
*FAILURE TO ADDRESS TRAFFIC PROBLEMS ON BEAT
*NEED TO CHECK TRAFFIC COMPLAINTS
*NEED TO CHECK WRECKS AND HIGH ACCIDENT LOCATIONS
*NEED TO DO TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT TO INCREASE COMPLIANCE, REDUCE ACCIDENTS, RESPOND TO COMPLAINTS ON MAYORS SURVEY
*EACH OFFICER COUNSELED IS TO TURN IN A PLAN BY JUNE 10, 1998 OF WHAT THE TRAFFIC PROBLEMS ARE ON THEIR BEAT AND HOW THEY PLAN TO ADDRESS THEM.
EXPECTATIONS FOR JUNE 1998-
MINIMUM OF 3 CONTACTS PER DAY.
MINIMUM OF 2 CITATIONS FOR MOVING VIOLATIONS PER DAY WORKED ON THE STREET.
CITATIONS SHOULD BE AIMED A PROBLEM AREAS AND COMPLAINT RESPONSE.
MOVING VIOLATIONS-
SPEEDING, RECKLESS DRIVING, PASSING RED LIGHT, PASSING STOP SIGN/ SIGNALS, FOLLOWING TOO CLOSELY, FAILURE TO YEILD, WRONG SIDE OF ROAD, IMPROPER TURN/PASSING
FAILURE TO MEET EXPECTATIONS WILL BE CAUSE FOR MUCH CLOSER SUPERVISORY SCRUTINY AND CONTROL.
From: Paul Fish
To: SERGEANTS
Date: 6/5/98 7:57am
subject: CAPTAINS MEETING
AT MY THURSDAY MEETING WITH THE OTHER DISTRICT COMMANDERS AND CHIEF COKER IT WAS AGREED TO MODERATE THE STANDARDS WHICH WERE ANNOUNCED AT OUR STAFF MEETING ON WEDNESDAY.
THE BLANKET OF TWO MOVING VIOLATIONS PER DAY AND THREE CITATIONS PER DAY PER OFFICER HAS BEEN RESCINDED. THERE WILL BE NO BLANKET POLICY TO PUNISH ALL FOR THE SINS OF A FEW.
THE NEW POLICY WILL BE:
THE CONTACTS WILL BE REVIEWED EACH MONTH BY THE DISTRICT SERGEANTS, LEIUTENANTS AND COMMANDER. ANY OFFICER THAT IS PERCEIVED TO BE LOW IN CONTACTS, IN ANY AREA, MAY BE CALLED IN AND COUNSELED BY HIS SERGEANT AND A LEIUTENANT OR CAPTAIN.
IF IMPROVEMENT IS NOT SHOWN THE NEXT MONTH MORE SERIOUS SANCTIONS MAY FOLLOW.
OTHER NEWS-
CHECK ALL YOUR RADAR GUNS TO SEE IF THEY ARE WORKING OK. WE HAVE SOME GETTING READY TO GO OUT OF WARRANTEE AND WE NEED TO GET THEM FIXED FIRST. IF NOT SURE CALL SGT. AYUB.
I MAY HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT THE POSTING FOR SERGEANT WILL GO UP ON MONDAY.
MAKE SURE TO CLEAN REPORTS OFF THE COMPUTER BEFORE TAKING OFF FOR YOUR BREAK BETWEEN SHIFTS. DON'T LET REPORTS LAY IN THE SYSTEM. DO SOMETHING WITH UNAPPROVED AND INCOMPLETE REPORTS TO GET THEM DONE.
OFFICER HAMRICK WILL BE GOING TO OCU.
THE FOLLOWING OFFICERS NAVE APPLIED TO WORK FOP CAMP-
P. TIPTON, NOT APPORVED
K. CARLOS, NOT APPROVED
MELVIN PIERCE, APPROVED
IF THERE ARE OTHER OFFICERS WANTING TO APPLY TO WORK LET ME KNOW.
Speeding ticket scandal: the internal police memo
Sunday July 2, 2006
By David Fisher
A highway police unit was sent out with orders to "get our ticket count up" in what makes a mockery of Government assurances that motorists are not targeted in a quota system.
A June 21 job sheet for police officers in the Central North Island area tells officers to set up road blocks so they can target high volumes of traffic to finish "top group" in their district before the end of the financial year.
Although police have argued for years that motorists were not subject to a quota, the memo was last night seized upon by opposition politicians to attack the Government's credibility.
Superintendent Mark Lammas, the boss of the unnamed officer who wrote the memo, said there was no quota but that officers did have "productivity targets" to meet.
"We do measure productivity by group and by individual. I have guidelines to productivity."
National's law and order spokesman Simon Power said: "The Government have been telling the public targets do not exist, that this is not a revenue-gathering exercise - but that is obviously not the case."
Act leader Rodney Hide said it made the police look like "just another branch of Inland Revenue". "This just proves what [Prime Minister] Helen Clark and the police have strenuously denied for years - that highway patrols are about government revenue gathering, rather than safer roads."
Police Minister Annette King told the Herald on Sunday she would seek assurances from the Commissioner of Police, Howard Broad, tomorrow that police were not operating a quota system. "I'm not happy with it if they are giving tickets to satisfy some internal quota."
It is the second case in a month of a memo urging police to issue tickets. In Marlborough, the acting area commander told officers they had to issue two tickets a shift.
Mrs King said the two instances were the first times she had ever heard of anything resembling a quota system. "I don't think it's endemic."
She said each policing district was responsible for the way it targeted crime and traffic enforcement.
"There is not a government instruction or policy. There is no quota system from the Government. I don't believe we need a quota system. The measure for me is a reduction in deaths, injuries and accidents."
She also attempted to put to rest accusations that police engage in "revenue collecting". "I've got no interest in the revenue. It's peanuts next to the cost of death, suffering and rehabilitation. It's peanuts."
In 2004 more than 395,000 speeding tickets were issued by officers, up from 137,000 in 2000. Police collected $46.5 million from these fines last year.
Superintendent Lammas said the "productivity" guidelines were based on knowing statistically how many people were likely to break the law and the expectation of what an efficient police officer should be achieving.
"I would expect they would issue one ticket an hour."
He conceded the statistics comparing groups of officers "may well" be available to police staff. But he said it should not be a source of competition. "We're about outcomes and how we get good road safety outcomes."
Mr Lammas said the officer who wrote the "tasking sheet" would be spoken to. He said the choice of words was "enthusiastic, probably well-meaning but largely ignorant of road policing", and the instruction was "daft".
He also said he intended hunting out the individual who had leaked the "tasking sheet". He said "every organisation hates to have someone... who does that".
Automobile Association general manager Mike Noon said the AA had always accepted assurances from police that there were no quotas. The AA was supportive of police road policing efforts, including targeting problems on the roads. "We are not supportive of ticketing for the sake of ticketing. If that was the case we would be concerned."
Quota, what quota?
October 17, 2005
Northland police community safety officer Bridget Rickard:
"We do not have a quota, we do however have a job to do and that is to protect life and property. If that means writing out tickets, so be it."
January 22, 2005
Inspector John Kelly, of police national headquarters, in response to claims that a trebling of speeding ticket numbers was "revenue gathering":
"It's frustrating. This has got absolutely nothing to do with revenue gathering."
July 23, 2003
Police Minister George Hawkins, in response to a question from Act MP Muriel Newman as to whether police have a national policy on traffic ticket quotas:
"No. However, police do set performance standards to enforce the law."
May 17, 2003
Inspector John Kelly, acting national policing manager, after the goal for the number of speeding tickets to be issued by police rises:
"Issuing more tickets is about strong enforcement, which is proven to save lives on the road. The money collected is a by-product of what we're doing."
March 10, 2003
Tasman road policing manager Inspector Hugh Flower:
"The fixation on speed and allegations of revenue gathering are erroneous and unhelpful when all the police are doing is endeavouring to reduce the road toll and associated road trauma that has far-reaching consequences for the community each time a traffic crash occurs."
July 26, 2005
Nelson Bays area commander Inspector Brian McGurk:
"Our enforcement strategies and tactics have absolutely nothing to do with so-called revenue gathering, but have everything to do with preventing deaths and injuries."
...Many police departments establish quota systems requiring their officers to hand out so many tickets a week or to make so many arrests each month. Almost always, the police quota systems are aimed at law enforcement problems where there are no immediate victims. These problems usually center on society’s attempt to control narcotics, prostitution, gambling, and traffic.
The quota systems utilized by most state and local police departments create many unintended and harmful effects. For the public, of course, the most obvious problem is the arbitrary enforcement sometimes engendered by the quotas.
The genuinely hurtful impact of quotas jumped to the front pages recently after two New York Times reporters obtained a copy of an internal police report charging that four officers had made more than 100 improper or false arrests. The victims usually were black or Hispanic men. The report said the motive for the false arrests was a formal police scoring system that promised choice assignments to those officers making the most arrests.
Sydney C. Cooper, a distinguished former commander in the New York City Police Department, remembers when he was the precinct captain in the Sheepshead Bay section of Brooklyn. "There was pressure from headquarters to cut down on traffic accidents so we passed on the word from Centre Street that each cop in the precinct was going to have to write so many moving violation tickets a month. What happened, of course, was that once a month those jokers would remember the chart and go out and knock off the first ten cars that didn’t come to a complete and total halt at an obscure stop sign in the precinct. I am sure that at least some of these drivers understood the tickets were not kosher and were understandably offended."
Cooper added, however. that quotas have another seriously negative impact: they tend to lead the police in the wrong direction. The police goal is not to hand out so many speeding or parking tickets each month, it is to assure the safe flow of city traffic. The reason why police headquarters had demanded more tickets for moving violations, Cooper said, was that there had a sudden increase in traffic fatalities in the area. "We eventually took a careful look at these fatals and discovered that most of them were happening at 3 in the morning on a major highway that ran through the precinct. The early morning stop sign tickets were irrelevant."
In some instances, law enforcement quotas encourage corruption. In New York City during the 1960’s, Police Commissioner Howard Leary laid down the rule that every narcotic division detective had to make a certain number of felony arrests a month if he wanted to keep his highly valued position. As established by the Knapp Commission investigation a few years later, the rigid quota requirement may have been one of the perverse pressures that pushed virtually every narcotics detective in New York City into establishing corrupt relations with drug addicts who could provide them useful leads.
The felony arrest quota established by Leary was not an impossible goal for the narcotic detectives. But an element of uncertainty had been introduced into the game because the Department was extremely stingy with "buy money," the funds used to purchase heroin from the dealers so the dealers then could be arrested for dealing. To reduce the uncertainties, many detectives developed secret stashes of heroin by stealing it from street addicts. The detectives would then pass the stolen heroin to other addicts in return for tips that would help them make the required number of "felony collars." In the end, the arrest quotas. combined with poor training and very little supervision, led to a situation where the Narcotics Division actually may have became one of the major distributors of heroin in New York City.
Cooper said that despite these gigantic problems that quotas are an essential management tool. "Given the lack of direct supervision inherent in police work, how else can you make sure that everyone is pulling their load?" he asked. But he added that without very thoughtful application, quota systems frequently turn into monsters that lead to abusive, unfair and ineffective police work.
Many of the difficult management problems that confront the police executives also face the field managers of the IRS. Both the traffic cop and the IRS Revenue officer have been ordered to undertake the difficult job of enforcing unpopular laws in situations where there are no immediate and obvious victims who have called for assistance. Because cops and revenue officers are not automatons, they naturally lean toward postponing the often difficult moment when they stop a speeding motorist or seize the assets of a delinquent tax payer. To counter this natural reluctance, the managers fall back on establishing the quota systems that produce the acts of mindlessly arbitrary law enforcement that so enrage the public.
As in the case of the New York Police Department, quotas often lead the IRS in the wrong direction. The IRS goal is not to make ten jillion seizures a month, the aim is to encourage citizens to pay their taxes.
What to do? Probably the first thing is to admit their existence. As long as the agency goes on insisting that quotas do not exist, an examination of the problems they create will be impossible. But Patrick Murphy, who headed the New York Police Department in the early 1970’s when it employed 32,000 police officers and 5,000 civilian personnel, knows this kind of public admission is difficult. In many ways, the Department’s size, mission and age are similar to the IRS. Murphy then went on to run the Police Foundation, a sophisticated research organization funded by the Ford foundation.
"Quotas are a very tough political problem for law enforcement," he said. "If you talk about them in an open way, the public feels they are being picked on unfairly. If you deny what the officers know exists, it feeds their cynicism, leads to even poorer performance and kind of corrupts the whole system."
Murphy said that quota systems usually are defeated by police officers and by themselves always are a poor substitute for effective leadership. But the former New York Police commissioner, who also was the commander of the departments in Washington, D.C. and Detroit, Michigan, acknowledged there were occasions when such pressures were necessary. "Quotas are a real management dilemma," he said. "It’s very tough, but in the end I think they probably need to be looked at more directly."
© David Burnham
Internal Memo Shows Police Given Quotas, Source Claims
POSTED: 10:41 am EST November 10, 2005
UPDATED: 11:05 am EST November 10, 2005
CINCINNATI -- A memorandum sent out to third-shift Cincinnati police officers included a list of monthly goals that appear to be a quota, News 5's Amy Wagner reported.
The goals include examples such as five curfew arrests, one DUI, 20 traffic violations and 20 parking tickets.
An anonymous source within the department called the goals quotas, but the department flatly denied the claim.
"I don' think you can use the word 'quota' and 'goal' interchangeably," Lt. Kurt Byrd said.
The Fraternal Order of Police disagreed with Byrd's assessment, Wagner reported.
"The Cincinnati Police Department's policy has always been that they do not have quotas," FOP vice president Keith Fangman said. "I have heard reports recently of officers being put on desk duty and walking patrols for not meeting quotas. Obviously, this appears to be a major change in police department policy as it relates to quotas."
Byrd said the list is just a bar that the department sets for officers.
"It's more of a way of grading somebody," he said. "Are you reaching the standard that the citizens of Cincinnati are paying you to meet?"
The anonymous source claimed that if officers don't meet the goals, they are punished, either directly or indirectly -- a claim the department vehemently denies. Byrd said that putting an officer on desk duty isn't punishment, because the pay is the same.
"I question what he means by punished directly or indirectly," Byrd said.
============
Officer Criticizes Police Quotas
Department Calls Them 'Goals'
POSTED: 5:37 pm EST November 10, 2005
UPDATED: 7:02 pm EST November 10, 2005
CINCINNATI -- Vincent George has been putting on his Cincinnati police officer uniform for seven years -- he's even received awards for his beat work -- but he's been placed on overnight desk duty ever since he filed a grievance, News 5's John London reported.
George filed the grievance over what he said is punishment for not meeting quotas his supervisor, Lt. Anthony Carter, laid out for all third-relief workers, London reported.
"The lieutenant has, in his mind, come up with these numbers he feels we can accomplish, and if you don't make them, he has his consequences," George said. "I didn't join (the police force) to become a predator that goes out and sits on a corner where a light is and watch people run red lights."
Although police higher-ups deny consequences for not writing a set number of tickets, George, a veteran officer, said he's seen otherwise. And he's not alone.
"The Cincinnati Police Department's policy has always been that they do not have quotas," Fraternal Order of Police vice president Keith Fangman said. "I have heard reports recently of officers being put on desk duty and walking patrols for not meeting quotas. Obviously, this appears to be a major change in police department policy as it relates to quotas."
A review of George's evaluations showed that the monthly arrest totals from this year were on the mark for a while. But lately, they've fallen far short of Carter's listed goals. A sergeant's review of George, done at Carter's request, showed that his monthly totals for July and August were substandard and stated that he'd been counseled about the goals.
"If someone violates the law right in front of me, that's totally different," George said. "But in the sense that we're sitting there hunting down citizens to write tickets and stuff, I don't think that's right -- that's not why I joined the police department."
George said previous supervisors gave officers discretion -- but not Carter.
"It takes that away from you -- your discretion is no longer yours," George said. "If you don't want to be on the desk, you write that ticket."
The department continues to call them goals or benchmarks, but George said that's a euphemism for quotas.
"I don' think you can use the word 'quota' and 'goal' interchangeably," said police spokesman Lt. Kurt Byrd.
Byrd said the list is just a bar that the department sets for officers.
"It's more of a way of grading somebody," he said. "Are you reaching the standard that the citizens of Cincinnati are paying you to meet?"
George said that he knows, in speaking out, he's putting his career on the line. But he said, at this point, it's his only option.
"The only way I'm going to feel good about what I do is to be straightforward," he said. "I would rather lose my job than be the officer that Lt. Carter wants me to be."
Ticket Quota Cover-up Continues with Pennsylvania State Police
Pennsylvania State Troopers receive monetary bounty for writing additional traffic tickets and are punished for speaking out against the system.
Pennsylvania State Police documents show that not only is there a system of monetary reward and punishment for state troopers based upon numeric ticket goals, there is a clear effort to prevent anyone from ever speaking about it. The first rule of a ticket quota is: there is no ticket quota.
The primary reason for the denial is a 1981 Pennsylvania law banning the practice of "directly or indirectly" suggesting that an individual police officer should issue "a certain number of traffic citations."
In 2002, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette uncovered the creative methods that top police officials developed to avoid the letter of the law. The specific number of tickets that troopers must now meet is known as the "station average." Each trooper must log the number of traffic stops and citations and if a trooper for any reason issues fewer tickets than his colleagues -- the station average -- he will be disciplined.
Our investigation shows that the practice continues and that those who issue more than the station average number of traffic tickets are given a fifty percent salary bonus in the form of construction overtime.
"If the station average is five tickets and you write ten, you're getting overtime," a trooper who requested anonymity explained to TheNewspaper.com. "The effect is to increase the average."
Construction overtime is a particularly desirable form of low-effort duty where officers are paid time-and-a-half to sit in their patrol cars with their red flashing lights activated to alert motorists of upcoming road construction hazards. On "premium" holidays, pay is doubled. Awarding this duty is solely at the station commander's discretion.
Another turnpike trooper cited an email sent to troopers at a station last month in which a sergeant used his discretion to obtain numeric citation goals. "He advised them that if they didn't write citations that they weren't going to get any overtime," the trooper said, not wanting to share a copy for fear the entire station would be punished if it were made public.
Punishment for individuals often takes the form of a formal, written reprimand known as a "Supervisor's Notation" which commanders use to enforce discipline.
"I directed you to NOT schedule Trooper [name withheld] for any additional voluntary, construction overtime until his statistics, particularly in the area of traffic enforcement, improved," Lt. Thomas F. Traister, Eastern Section Commander for Troop T, wrote in a 2001 Supervisor's Notation (view documents, 682k PDF format). Troop T patrols 525 miles of the Pennsylvania Turnpike.
Traister wrote this formal reprimand after one officer's immediate superiors, a sergeant and corporal, each agreed that the trooper's performance was "commendable." On average, the trooper in question assisted more motorists than his colleagues -- he only lacked in the number of revenue-generating citations issued. Traister points out that after being warned about the need to issue more citations, the trooper quickly began to bring in a large number of traffic citations and exceeded the station average. The reprimand was about one thing: numbers.
Rank-and-file police officers warn that the emphasis on numbers forces them to focus on generating a large number of easy stops. This means that the more dangerous drivers, being more difficult to catch, are more likely to get away. "If I am 10 away from my target number and I only have a few shifts left, I am going to take whatever I can get," a trooper explained. "As a result, the serious traffic offender has a better chance of evading apprehension. It's a numbers game."
The overtime system is not the proper means of enforcing discipline. Pennsylvania police regulations outline a very specific process to deal with underperforming officers, up to and including an internal investigation. This process gives the "underperforming" employee a chance to review the evidence against him and allows him a formal opportunity to challenge any resulting punishment.
The overtime system bypasses these protections entirely, but it is not the only tool that station commanders across the state have devised to suggest that troopers write a certain number of citations. We spoke to another trooper who had been relocated from the Northwest corner of Pennsylvania to the Southeast corner, more than two hundred miles away, because he devoted more attention to assisting motorists than citing them.
"I was told that if I ever wanted to get closer to home I'd better write more traffic citations," the trooper, who also requested anonymity, said.
In private, officials tacitly acknowledge the existence of a quota. "I eventually had a meeting with the lieutenant over it," the same trooper continued. "Upon pressing her for what I was doing that was against regulations or not in the best interest of the public or department, the best explanation she could give me was that what I did was valuable and necessary but didn't bring in enough revenue."
In public, however, it is standard practice for police to deny the existence of a quota, even to the point of using misleading words under oath. In a formal deposition in July 2004, the same Lt. Traister who directed a subordinate not to issue construction overtime testified, "I do not get involved in the operation or the assignment of overtime." When confronted with a copy of the above-mentioned memo, Traister responded, "I was merely passing along this assignment from the commanding officer."
Troopers maintain that even though they know the emphasis on writing citations undermines the integrity of the force, they face punishment if they speak out against the situation. For example, after media reports sparked an internal investigation into quota allegations in 2003, our documents show that supervisors intervened in the investigation. These officers held one-on-one meetings with individual troopers before they were called to speak with investigators about the matter. According to one memo, the outcome of one such set of meetings was that the trooper "stated he does not want to speak with [the investigator]."
"You can't come forward and tell the truth or else they will get you," a state trooper explained. "The fact of the matter is they use intimidation. The guys don't want to come forward because they don't want to be next. They have families to feed."
And because the top police officials control every aspect of internal investigations, the conclusion is never anything other than, "there is no quota."
Eric Skrum, spokesman for the National Motorists Association says that, whatever name you give it, this system is bad for both the public and police. "The public receives unjustified tickets and increased insurance charges. At the same time, the police are harmed because the public has less confidence in them. There are better ways to evaluate the performance of the police."
Selected documents available in a 682k PDF document at the source link below.
Source: Quota Documents (Pennsylvania State Police, 8/10/2005)
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/05/587.asp
As a boss.......
Can someone tell me what is wrong with a quota? Just how are we able to quantify an employee's work output? Is there a state law barring this? Is there federal law? Case law in a court system? In the union contract? Municipal ordinances? Just where is it?
A guy is out there handling his calls, makes a few pinches, writes a few tickets..... Is he better or worse than the R.O.D. (retired on duty) copper who we have to check for a pulse when he/she comes to work? Should a worker get a few more props than a dog-ass?? Absol-fucking-lutely!!!!
I am not talking about the anomoly here. Hell, on my Monday or Friday, don't look for too much outta me, but I will put out if needed. But the other days, I am putting out something that closely resembles policework.
From another post: Hell yes, bosses should have some sort of measurable output as well. If the coppers have a quota, then so should the bosses all the way up to the exempts.
Quotas do not mearly mean a finite number of tickets. It should encompass the whole picture. What is the officer doing out there for 8 hours? If a guy is down on a prisoner at the hospital all day, obviously he won't be out there getting guns or parkers. Conversely, you wont get as many guns out of 1621 as you will 1521.
You know, I came on making a helluva lot less too many years ago. I ascended the ranks, put in my time, laid off the koolaid, and did a good job. Was I the highest activity guy? NO. But at least I did something pro-active as opposed to reactive.
Budget money is getting tight. We (believe it or not, "Y" generation entitlement babies notwithstanding) make a good buck. A darn good buck. More than the greeter at wal-mart, a sword fisherman in the atlantic or a bartender. Lets give the citizenry something for that good buck...... How does a guy do NOTHING for eight hours? Yes, we have guys that do just that.... Where is your pride? Is it too much for a boss to ask for 1-2 tickets a day? How the fuck can a cop drive around his beat and not see a single traffic violation? It can't be done unless he is asleep. If traffic doesn't make his socks roll up and down, how about a gun or some dope? 1-2 contact cards on some shitheads?
Then, there is the written jobs. You go to a burglary, did you do a canvass? If not, why not? If you can't get it done today, how about tomorrow and do a supp report?
Crappy police work is gonna kill us. True story.... My wife had a purse stolen from her job in the suburbs. She calls Skokie PD, no response. She gets a CIVILIAN CSO to take a "Matter of Fact" report. No UCR classification for theft over (guess they didn't want to spooge their crime stats!).
I am pissed. After work I head over there to do my own follow-up. Talked to store security and got the video tapes that show a F/B going into the storeroom!
Then I hit the parking lot and dumpsters to see if the purse got dumped if all the offender wanted was money. As I am out there looking around, two Skokie squads and a Sergeant pull up. Seems that mall security called on me as a suspicous person. I explained the situation to the Sergeant..... He seemed annoyed to be there, he refused to take the tapes and log them into evidence for the detective's followup, and could clearly give a fuck less about my problem; my being a police Sergeant notwithstanding!!!!
Then I left.
No detectives called for a followup. NADA.
Goes to show that the suburbs with all their mall-bucks are even more fucked up than us.
All could have been avoided if they send a squad, took a report, correctly classified the crime, CONDUCTED A PRELIMINARY INVESTIGATION, inventoried evidence, and followed up. A little EMPATHY would have been fine too.
Flame suit is on to protect me from the trols, tools, and conventional non-hackers.
Baltimore Police Using Quota System
A new quota system in Baltimore, Maryland emphasizes tickets and arrests.
Police in Baltimore, Maryland who do not meet expected ticket and arrest targets are being "reassigned" to other duties and told to improve. Police union representatives told the Baltimore Sun, "You have officers competing with each other, officers worrying about their arrests numbers. There's going to be pressure to make arrests arbitrarily just to get your numbers up."
In February the police used a point system where 10 parking tickets were worth 1 point and each arrest worth 3 points. This month, a new system was put in place to avoid the obvious association with quotas. All statistics are now tallied together and compared. The lowest twenty-seven "performing" officers are then punished.
Article Excerpt:
Councilman Kenneth N. Harris said the program raises the specter of quotas and civil rights violations. "My concern is if officers start arresting people for no good reasons - without probable cause," he said. "We want to focus on quality of policing and arrests, not quantity."
Source: Critics assail police policy
(Baltimore Sun, 3/29/2005)
Headline:
Chicago Police / Quota Appeal
Abstract:
(Studio) Federal judge orders all revenue-sharing funds withheld from Chicago until it integrates its police department
REPORTER: Harry Reasoner
(Chicago, Illinois) Judge Prentice Marshall imposes quota system on police department Orders 400 new officers hired in 90 days. 16% must be female; 42% black and Latino and 42% other males. [Mayor Richard J. DALEY - says won't lay off anyone to comply with quota order. Quota is un-American and not proper.] Law Enforcement Assistance Admin. says 1st time judge forced specific quota on police department [US attorney Sam. SKINNER - says doesn't hold water that women or minorities can't meet police department qualifications.] Fed. revenue sharing funds frozen for over year Mayor will comply with order if judge ends freeze.
REPORTER: John Drury
ANY TRUTH TO THE RUMORS THAT 023'S CRAPTAIN THOSFERATU "CORPUSCLE KOOL-AID" LEMUR HAD HIS VERY OWN LAPTOP COMPROOTER CONFISCATED/INVENTORIED BY THE POWERS THAT BE FOR ALLEGEDLY CONCOCTING (ON COMPANY TIME) SOME NEWFANGLED FOCOCKTA "EMPLOYEE RATING SYSTEM"? WAS IT MORE DRACONIAN THAN THE CURRENT "INDEX"/Q-U-O-T-A SYSTEM, OR JUST "CAUGHT IN THE HEADLIGHTS" QUASARIAN/STICKY HIGH SKOOL MEMORIES BOGUE-A-RIFFIC? PLEASE TO EXPLAIN POR FAVOR....
The FOP Executive Bd. members "Double Dip"? They get $400 a month/$4,800 a year each to attend roll calls. That equals $33,800 a year of members dues paid for the seven inside guys to attend roll calls - sometimes on FOP company time. Donahue and Dougherty came to SOS the other day on FOP time. Stop the DOUBLE DIP! Are roll calls the FOP quota? Donahue gets Chief's pay approx. ($170,000) a year and the other six get Capt's (approx. $120,000 a year) pay. That should be enough for the inside boys.
Never Fear, the Area 2 Gun Guys are here!!!!!
Give us a call when ya need the heavy guns, folks!
"I ain't a fraid of no ghost." GhostBusters = FOP Busters.
they don't need a quota system.......they need to be less stingy with the court overtime.
the city is too greedy and is fucking it's self as a result.
NO VISION AT ALL !
management cant see beyond it's own finger tips !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Answer my calls back up my co workers and if a arrest is warranted i handle my business..and I take my turn in the click It stick it barrel..and there's is a quota for our teams in the area..3 heads a day.per P.O. plus 1 S/W a month and other stuff..10 going on 20. where they going to dump me? to 011..oh right im already here..shit late again..!!! DOH just like a Monday!
What happened last night with the OFF DUTY cops working at the spanish niteclub around 2745 N. Narraganset....heard one got his ass handed to him then had his buddies arrest them-& THEN NEVER CAME INTO THE STATION to sign complaints....can't sign complaints working in a liquor establishment...drunk! 025 coppers again!
There has been an unofficial quota system for tact teams for awhile, at least in my district. Why do you think we get so many DOPWs? You think we like doing that crap? Or that we are incapable of getting anything better? When you are told to get a head a day (or sometimes lots more), contact cards, dispersals, curfews, park checks, etc, you run out of time to actually put in the work for a decent arrest and are forced to grab what you can. We are basically threatened with the fact that if we don't get what they ask, we will be dumped to the watch. Sounds like a quota system to me! I'm not complaining cuz if I hated it I could just tell them to fuck off and head back to the watch. But for those of you who think there is no quota system going on in Chicago, wake up. Never became the police to take in some guy for walking down the street with...god forbid...a beer!! It makes the tact teams look like a bunch of pussies but we do what we gotta do.
I know more than a few 011 dist Tact/Gang officers. They definitely have a quota and its on paper. Its the dumbest thing in the world. Those guys are going to get jammed up one day and the dept will put its tail between its legs and sell the coppers out.
What we need is a citywide elimination of bullshit arrests from all Gang/Tact/Sos/and Tru units. We need to do what the dept originally intedned us to do. Street level investigations and put the players away. Who remembers when Tact/Gangs looked up investigative alerts and followed up on case reports using their own intiative? Remember when they were actually teams not just a civilian dress watch?
What needs to be done will never happen. Its mostly the depts fault but the officers have blame as well for not working together with each other and going up to see the dicks. The dicks aern't always forthcoming either. Plenty of blame to go around. Nothing ever changes.
4th of July tip #1:
Do NOT stick the lighted Sparkler into your eye kid.
- CRIMEWATCH
We don't have a ticket quota, we have a traffic index.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
CRIMEWATCH AND PETE KARL ROCKS
What's your delete quota ?
"Who remembers when Tact/Gangs looked up investigative alerts and followed up on case reports using their own intiative?"
The fucking things have only been around for 5 years.
Just remember Everett Johnson is the best the department has to offer and he should be judged by the quality of his ideas and programs. HaHaHaHa. Another merit lieutenant, I guess.
I'm a little confused. When has there NOT been a quota system?
It's not a quota anymore. They call it an "index"
Speaking of Quotas, work the Garfield Park detail. You are given a checklist of: movers, parkers,a.n.o.v.s, tows, arrests. You are also told coming in with a zero is forbidden.
11:37:45 AM
Oh yeah, they informed us that the A4DC would call call our commander if you came in with goose eggs..........hahahahahahahahahaha....almost pissed myself.....
What are they going to do? Send you back to your district? I worked with both Zelitsky and "Lt" John Andrews at different times in my career. They are two of my top 5 "all career" idiots. There is nothing wrong with taking pride in your work or enjoying your job, but the exempts have absolutely no respect for anyone working 3rd Watch in 011 by inflicting those two Section 8's on the coppers. Both of them should be policing the psych ward at Rush with rubber guns.
Adam Zelitsky rocks. He is one of the best bosses I ever worked for- not. He stalks a female PO and only gets 30 days. He tries to trick bag POs in 012 to get him a live saving award, where he saves a dog that was barking in the parking lot from a fire and gets another 30 days. Hey Boss -F*#k you piece of shit. Try to guess who I am. I still work for you bitch. Ha, Ha, Ha.
You want to put quotas out there? Put an incentive program together.
They keep fucking with us like they've got us over a barrel. Last time I checked they weren't exactly banging the door down in my dist. to get upstairs. I went 6 months with only 3 people on my team and another 6 months with only 5. They finally get me 4 more people and they all come from other units/districts. None from downstairs. Who wants to put up with the bullshit? 2 days notice that your hours are changed or day off cancelled then they call you back the night before to tell you that your hours are changed back after you had to rearrange sitters, part time job, etc. Go ahead and jump on me for whining. I know, leave if I don't like it. It's coming soon. Look at these new Cmdrs. with their electronic leashes. Can't even have a conversation with them without them pulling out that fucking blackberry and scrolling through it while you're trying to talk to them. Fucking ignorant.
You should have heard General George Armstrong Zelitsky on Zone Ten last night early into the first watch. He led the most masterful retreat in the history of the Chicago Police Department. I hope his bosses are listening as well, they'll ultimately hang with him.
What are you talking about last night rocked! Ive never seen an ything like it! Say what you want about Sgt Z in 011 but when he is off his meds, like last night, he will show you a GOOD time. Atleast he has balls against the animal!
Put more "animals" in the penitentiery with a typewriter than any of the stupidity displayed alst night ever will. Don't confuse last nights display for balls.
Compare last night to what happened on new years eve at 3258 n. harlem. Which supervisors showed balls! Ill take Sgt Z over all pussy bosses in 016 anyday!
know more than a few 011 dist Tact/Gang officers. They definitely have a quota and its on paper. Its the dumbest thing in the world. Those guys are going to get jammed up one day and the dept will put its tail between its legs and sell the coppers out.
What we need is a citywide elimination of bullshit arrests from all Gang/Tact/Sos/and Tru units. We need to do what the dept originally intedned us to do. Street level investigations and put the players away. Who remembers when Tact/Gangs looked up investigative alerts and followed up on case reports using their own intiative? Remember when they were actually teams not just a civilian dress watch?
What needs to be done will never happen. Its mostly the depts fault but the officers have blame as well for not working together with each other and going up to see the dicks. The dicks aern't always forthcoming either. Plenty of blame to go around. Nothing ever changes.
A-FUCKIN-MEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You shouldn't confuse balls with a big mouth and no common sense. A lunatic is not the only alternative to a pussy.
...Look at these new Cmdrs. with their electronic leashes. Can't even have a conversation with them without them pulling out that fucking blackberry and scrolling through it while you're trying to talk to them. Fucking ignorant...
I agree. All it does is feed into their self-importance. Then later, they deny you informed them of the exact thing you were talking to them about while they were sidetracked.
If crime is down across the board, how can more arrests be made than last year?
Anonymous said...
Le me understand, if I don't make the quota I will get thrown out of an Area 4 Distric?
So What!
7/02/2006 12:08:52 AM
-----------
You will no longer be the "real poooolease" then.....
"real poooolease" work in 012 and 013?
what happened in 011 last night?
Speaking of Quotas,
Can some one explain how felony narco court works? I work days, so I make a crack arrest. I put the court on my RDO, well after the lab should arrive. I get the notif and the date is changed from my RDO to a working day.
What's going on here? Am I not allowed to go to court on a RDO? Can some one explain this to me?
READ D.S.O 05-02-02
DaleyforMCCguest said...
I don't know how they assign the dates for narcotics court, but it will almost always be on the same day of the week. I always get notified for tuesday, no matter what day I assign it. They will change it. Thats why its always the same people there.
7/02/2006 03:56:15 PM
Ya, I heard that rumor. Not true. I got two on different days this month.....
Anonymous said...
READ D.S.O 05-02-02
7/02/2006 03:53:41 PM
Can you enlighten me? In disgust, I threw all my Sgt reading material out.....
What happened last noc in 011 with Sarg. Z?
I worked the garfield park assignment and I brought in all zeros for one reason the bosses thought they could intimidate us fuck them. Call my D.C. I dont care is he going to spar me? no That is one grievance the city doesnt want. P.S. If you are told to write parkers find a church and write all the cars on the sidewalk in front of hydrants or in bus stops you wont be asked again. asking for a little help in 011 because the super troopers cant get it done is one thing( Just joking I know you guys are undermaned ) but you wont get shit if you think you can scare us into working.
All narcotic arrests are based on you star number. You will always be assigned the same day of the week no matter what you put down for the court date on the arrest report
A National Lawyers Guild Legal Observer was among 6 persons arrested Sunday afternoon, July 2, at the Taste of Chicago, in what witnesses and NLG members termed “arbitrary” and “outrageous” actions by the Chicago police.
A multiracial group of young people were passing out flyers to their peers nearby a U.S. Army recruitment tent at the community festival. Police ordered them to stop and to move to a “free speech designated area” about a block away.
Senior supervisors among the large police contingent were unable or unwilling to state the legal authority behind the police order, and one NLG Legal Observer was seized while asking questions and taking notes.
The 6 arrested persons are being processed at the First District headquarters as of 4:30 p.m. Sunday, July 2.
More information will be posted to this list later Sunday night.
I worked my ass off to make a dime bag arrest and I can't even have a little over time on my day off! I know I blow the commander to work days but I would still like at least 3 hrs. over time for the energy I put in getting that dime bag off the street.
Anonymous said...
All narcotic arrests are based on you star number. You will always be assigned the same day of the week no matter what you put down for the court date on the arrest report
7/02/2006 05:22:29 PM
--------------
I got one on Mon then next week on Tues........
If you got one on Monday and then tuesday that is because you most likely missed a court date and they continued it. They will normally continue the case one time at PC court and then throw it out
I was at 35th St.3 days ago talking to some bonehead IN SPECIAL ACTIVITIES and saw Acosta's picture hanging on the wall. Is there not a rule against fraternizing with convicted felons?Must look into this bullshit. HELLO CHICAGO TRIBUNE-Mr. KRASS!
What is Special Activities?
I hear the mayor is going to give us a 5% raise because we are doing a good job out there
So who was the dumb ass copper who tried to outrun the train at Nagle/NW HWY in 016 last Friday morning? Luckiest son of a bitch I've ever heard of...got away with no injuries, only a torn off bumper.
Oh yeah, and NO TICKETS for going around the gates and getting hit by a Metra train!!! That's just insulting! Selfish asshole risked the lives of a packed commuter train and he doesn't even get a banana! Sorry, but that's waaaaay above and beyond the "professional courtesey" guidelines as far as I'm concerned!
Special Activities puts the schedule together for bowling cops for kids and makes sure your in line at a Dept. Comm. ceremony. Can have civilians do the same shit, Waste of police manpower(although there ain't a real PO up there-we're probably better off letting these fucks sit in their little cubes wiggiling their asses) Both male and female-go gay games
I'd like to see them try to force a quota on me. Maybe i'd give the city some tickets if I got a percentage out of it. If you work in a shitty district, nobody knows how to fucking drive. I handle enough radio assignments and write enough reports without having to worry about writing enough tickets for the week so nobody bothers me. If it were up to some of these bosses, they'd have you work non-stop for twenty-four hours until you drop dead of a heart attack. They want to try to intimidate me. If push comes to shove, I got no problem working 99 and driving my piece of shit impala squad car into a brick wall. Ooops. I fucked up my back, prove that I didn't. I got no problem stealing money from the city. I'll just pretend I'm an Alder-creature. Hopefully it won't have to come down to that. Most of these bosses realize that when it comes to dealing with us, that they are like parents, powerless. I think we should have a quota in that we have to beat the shit out of a polish immigrant once a week.
Dear Bender, someone finally got it figured out....they cant do anything to you. If they fuck with you, hit the medical. You get hurt when your doing one of their silly-ass fuckin' chores....thats all thats to it...
As tact in a south side district, i can assure you WE have no quota. basically we have to "justify our existence". we do follow-ups to shootings, robberies, etc that occur in our district. yes we do have to lock up the b.s. drinker, gambler every now & again. then we go on border patrol to protect the homeland from the enemy!
09-05-31.......
My idea of a quota system really isn't a quota per se'. As I said before, the city pays us for 8 hours work.
So lunch/rollcall/checkoff aside; guys need to be doing SOMETHING. ANYTHING. If you really are going job to job doing paper/followups/canvassing/whatever then fine. If you don't have anything to do, rather than going to bullshit with another copper who is also doing nothing.... at least drive your beat.
I can't tell you when the last time I saw a squad on my street. It is all perception. The people see a squad driving around can't complain that they are not getting any police service. Business checks/industrial areas..... Shake a few door knobs.... Who knows, you might find an open door or interrupt a burglary in progress.
Years ago, a big score would go down in a store or a business. The W/C would whistle in the beat officer, and ask him: "what the fuck happened? You in on the score? Where were you when it went down?" Puckered my ass when the boss did this for sure. The Sergeant got a dose too. Does that ever happen now? Hell No!!!!! I would be accused of promoting a hostile work place or some other "Y" generation perpetuated bullshit.
No, CPD doesn't want a quota of X number of tickets or heads, etc. If the dept were smart they would want some way to measure an employee's productivity though....
Let all CTA bosses know that a CPD ID is the chosen method of deciphering if you are a cop or not.... not the star.....speaking from experience.
you got court on monday because the courts are closed tuesday for the holiday.
Old timers will call the CPD I-D card the "Bus Pass."
It wasn't until the 1980's that the department issued our own I-D cards. Prior to that the Chicago Transit Authority issued our I-D cards.
What happened in 011 last night?
Sgt Z, or as he is known, Sgt Bi-polar-Sgt Psycho-Sgt Bitch-Sgt Supressed Homosexual happened. It was business as usual on the West Side, 200 or so animals doing what they do. He takes it upon himself to turn a normal West Side savage fest into a 10-1, then tries to take credit for making a command decision to lock up a bunch of animals Mother F#@%ing the Police and throwing bricks. (I especially liked the 023rd dist copper standing frozen saying" I don't know how you work here, just before a brick flew over his head.) It was someone else, I was standing next to the person when the decision was made and it certainly was not Sgt Paper Jumper. No, he does not have the balls to make that decision. As to the person who seems think so highly of him, stay in 016 and do nothing like you usually do, or if you have the balls bid to 011 and work for that chemically imbalanced prick for one day and then say something.
To: daleyformccguest (I like that). A little of the record and off the rails. In riding the Metra rails, there is no choice. The trains push in (into the city) and pull out (out of the city). Or is it the other way around.
This way they don't need track or other ways of turning the train around. I am no expert, but I would think that in the event of a crash or derailment, if the engine were pushing it is going keep coming and telescope into the car I am riding.
It must have been a really dumb $0^)#!! to drive around the R.R. gates. Like the song says, "when the gates are down and the whistle is crying in vein, you can't blame the wreck on the train."
Stay safe, the most dangerous thing we do everyday is drive.
"car I am riding" in above means R.R. car.
D Bryant from 011, when the sh@t hit the fan with the Z, and the POs went after the people throwing things at the Police, I would like to thank you for doing nothing like you always do. Standing outside, useless as always, why didn't you just go shopping on duty, or sleep throught the tour or file another BS discrimination beef just because you got caught, proving what a useless POS you are. Better yet go on a fictional Medical for the summer and spare us your completely useless waste of a star and a gun.
We have enough enemies out here without making more.
We don't need to sandbag someone to make a quota and let the white shirts look good. But than again quotas worked for most of our minority bosses without that they still be in a blue shirt
SGT. 1106 LAST SATURDAY WAS OUT OF CONTROL. THE ANIMAL WAS ACTING AS USUAL. IT WAS A VERY LARGE HOUSE PARTY. HE ALMOST INCITED A RIOT. IT WAS COMICAL AT TIMES. I GUESS HE ENJOYED USING HIS TASER 20 PLUS TIMES. C'MON... PEOPLE CUFFED AND DOWN, STILL GETTING ZAPPED. OVER AND OVER AGAIN.HE IS A WALKING FEDERAL LAWSUIT. I HEARD SOMEONE SAY THAT HE MENTIONED THAT WAS THE FIRST 10-1 HE EVER CALLED. WELL, MR AREA 4 TOUGH BAD ASS SGT. MANY OF US THAT WERE THERE THAT NIGHT WORKED IN AREA 4 IN THE PAST. YOU WERE A JOKE!!! I THINK IT'S TIME YOU SIT IN TIME OUT. MAYBE YOU SHOULD THINK ABOUT ALL THE OFFICERS YOU PUT IN DANGER THAT NIGHT. ALL FOR WHAT??? A FRIGGIN' WEST SIDE ANIMAL HOUSE PARTY. I ASKED ANOTHER SGT. TO TRY TO CALM MR. BAD ASS DOWN. HE TOLD ME THAT IS JUST THE WAY HE IS. WELL, I HOPE HE LIKES FEDERAL COURT. CAUSE, THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT'S GOING TO BE IF SGT. BAD ASS TASER KEEPS IT UP WITH HIS BULLSHIT. IT WON'T BE LONG BEFORE THE ANIMAL GETS TOGETHER AND DECIDES TO TAKE SHOTS AT ONE OF US WHILE STANDING AT THE OUTDOOR ROLL CALL. WHO DO WE HAVE TO THANK FOR THAT??? SGT. BAD ASS-AREA 4- TASER HAPPY DUMBASS.
Hey above poster dont be a pussy.
Let me see if I got this right. The animals were MF'ng the Police and throwing bricks at them and YOU wanted the Sgt. to do.......what? Walk away, laugh it off, what? So he made a decision to make some arrests and YOU are ripping him? You have to be one of the biggest cowards or one of the laziest patrolmen I've ever heard of. You should quit tommorrow so the rest of us do not have to be exposed to your cowardice. If the Sgt. in question (who I DO NOT KNOW ) ordered his men to make arrests, God bless him. It's about time we got a boss with some balls.
If your afraid to be the Police then quit and join the Fire Department. Then you won't have to do ANYTHING.
Useless POS!
I don't know who you are talking about, but if some sergeant in 011 or 015 FINALLY decided to stand up to the crowds, than I say GOD BLESS THIS SERGEANT.
I realize 011 and 015 are historically short, very short, on warm weekend nights (1st watch). That said, there have been more than one times where sergeants decided to pull out when they should have been calling in the cavalary from all over the city. Never, ever, ever, ever let the savage win. NOT EVER.
If the complaint is that the sergeant incited a riot, than there might be a point. There are too many tough guys out there that start shit they can't handle. Don't start nuthin, won't be nuthin and all that.
But once it starts, regardless of who starts it, than do not let the savage win.
If you have to retreat for 10 or 15 to call in the reinforcements to an assembly point, so be it. But walk away entirely? Not. A. Good. Idea.
So just to be clear, is the complaint that he started something unnecessarily or that he refused to back down (or that he was disproportionate) once something started?
Because to me, once the first bottle is thrown at the police, that's it. Call in the whole fucking city if you have to. But do not ever let the savage win.
Someone else may be paying for it tenfold the next time.
Ask the guys from the 60s how quickly a riot can grow when not enough troops are called in to quell it from the start. 3 hours and a district can be up in flames.
The only answer is massive, overwhelming force. Shock and awe if you will.
End of rant.
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