Response to Comments - the Burge Report
From a Comments Section:
- The way SCC has been crowing about this report coming out, it almost appears as if he is awaiting bad news that will be negative for the mayor. I mean dislike of the mayor is one thing, but this has the potential to be a major black eye for law enforcement...yet again.
First of all, we don't crow. We link to stories written in the media that we think might be of interest to coppers. Unfortunately, the Burge report is going to be a huge topic of conversation very shortly. We stated our opposition to release as we object with every fiber of our being to anything that the "People's Law Office" supports. Unfortunately, the Illinois Supreme Court doesn't answer to us (yet) and the report is about to come out.
This being said, anything (and we mean anything) that embarrasses this Administration is greatly appreciated. The fact that you seem to be supportive of the mayor speaks volumes about you - you obviously have no idea how much the rank and file hate his guts.
As to the potential for "a major black eye for law enforcement," how much blacker can it get? We operate from a position of presumed guilt for every "baby's mamma's drama" that happens in this city. Every time we shoot someone, the altar boy photos come out and we hear about how the "victim" was just about to get his life straight. Screw it. If the story is going to break, it's going to break and we might as well get in front of it and see what we can salvage.
Was Burge as bad as he's been portrayed? Probably not. It was a different time. Burge wasn't routinely grabbing old ladies off of the street and torturing them. He was leaning on cop killers and murderers. You want to hear some stories that'll make you hair curl? We'd introduce you to people who know how certain information was retrieved that gave grieving families closure and justice, but the statute of limitations hasn't run out on some. Some cases only got closed because people like Burge knew they had to push the boundaries a little bit in an era that the US Supreme Court was giving criminals a free rein to wreak havoc and empowering their scumbag lawyers with every manner of bullshit to literally get away with murder. At least the pendulum is swinging the other way nowadays and the Courts (Federal at least) presume we are operating in good faith rather than the other way around.
Do we support what Burge did? We understand quite a bit of why it was done. Does anyone think Burge could get away with what he did then in today's era of video and 72 hours holds and all the other nonsense imposed by Courts, Legislation and Consent Decrees? Not a chance. We'll withhold judgment on supporting it until we see the report. If the typical leftist media course hold true, there will be some completely understandable incidents they've glossed over and a few questionable ones hyped to the extreme.
This being said, anything (and we mean anything) that embarrasses this Administration is greatly appreciated. The fact that you seem to be supportive of the mayor speaks volumes about you - you obviously have no idea how much the rank and file hate his guts.
As to the potential for "a major black eye for law enforcement," how much blacker can it get? We operate from a position of presumed guilt for every "baby's mamma's drama" that happens in this city. Every time we shoot someone, the altar boy photos come out and we hear about how the "victim" was just about to get his life straight. Screw it. If the story is going to break, it's going to break and we might as well get in front of it and see what we can salvage.
Was Burge as bad as he's been portrayed? Probably not. It was a different time. Burge wasn't routinely grabbing old ladies off of the street and torturing them. He was leaning on cop killers and murderers. You want to hear some stories that'll make you hair curl? We'd introduce you to people who know how certain information was retrieved that gave grieving families closure and justice, but the statute of limitations hasn't run out on some. Some cases only got closed because people like Burge knew they had to push the boundaries a little bit in an era that the US Supreme Court was giving criminals a free rein to wreak havoc and empowering their scumbag lawyers with every manner of bullshit to literally get away with murder. At least the pendulum is swinging the other way nowadays and the Courts (Federal at least) presume we are operating in good faith rather than the other way around.
Do we support what Burge did? We understand quite a bit of why it was done. Does anyone think Burge could get away with what he did then in today's era of video and 72 hours holds and all the other nonsense imposed by Courts, Legislation and Consent Decrees? Not a chance. We'll withhold judgment on supporting it until we see the report. If the typical leftist media course hold true, there will be some completely understandable incidents they've glossed over and a few questionable ones hyped to the extreme.
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
26 Comments:
John Burge is class man, who helped alot of police officers. He should be commended for his service. Thank you John Burge. God Bless you and your family.
>>Burge wasn't routinely grabbing old ladies off of the street and torturing them. He was leaning on cop killers and murderers. <<
From what has been intimated, the above-sentences may be half-truths, or at least that is what the report may say. Supposedly there are numerous "victims" who were not grabbed for murder or shooting coppers. If it were all about the Wilson brothers, 80% of the city and county would stand with the CPD. What worries me is that the "substantiated" allegations will go far beyond the Wilson brothers. Every last member will suffer if that is the case.
Let us not forget, Burge did not prosecute any of those individuals. Who was the states attorney who approved the charges? What assistant states attorneys were involved?
Cmdr. Burge is just a fall guy for the lawyers who are hoping they are never mentioned in the press, and are now working in private practice making tons of money.
The states attornies office must be blamed for bad or illegal prosecutions. They had the burdon of proof in all the cases.
You can't tell me that "Burge and his black box" is not an urban legend pulling a bandwagon. The People's Lie Office may want to check where Burge was on furlough. Maybe he traveled from town to town imprisoning innocent men? It's funny how everyone assumes Burge did the things he is accused of. The 4th Estate has done their job well. Someone pointed out to me the other day the disparity in approval ratings for Clinton & Bush at this point in their Presidencies. Once again, the 4th Estate has done their job well.
10:56, if its true that so many current and formers pleaded the fifth, than what else is there for the public to go on?
Funny how suddenly a whole bunch of people affiliated with the CPD suddenly sound like the ACLU when its THEIR people pleading the fifth. We'll see what the report says, but I suspect the report doesn't have Burge and numerous others defending themselves.
A lot more like "on the advice of my counsel..."
Look closer, you know what this is about? A hack judge doling out five million dollars to two cronies to conduct a sham investigation of allegations previously reviewed in federal court. Sounds like a "no retention" vote is in order for the judge. Keep voting for democrats boys!
I would take the 5th to everything they asked me. There is blood in the water and "anything you say can and will be used against you." God forbid you say you weren't somewhere 25 years ago when someone else says you were. Now name the bosses. I'm tired of reading about "all" the bosses that were involved in this. Anyone who knew Burge knows he had a crew. Everyone else was on the outside. I don't know any of his guys who went on to be more than a Lt. If you are talking about CPD/CCSA management that was peripherally involved in investigating allegations then that is a different issue. Nobody was a bigger police hater than Gayle Shines and she walked away from it. Some people are probably going to be hurt by this report, but unless it calls for an all out lynching of all 40,000 coppers who have served since the 60's, then the 4th Estate and the People's Lie Office will call it a cover up.
7/02/2006 11:11:11 AM seems to know what he is talking about. Probably spent a lot of time on the "Reader's" website. A publication well known for being even handed and non-biased.
Thanks John. Unfortunately, it has been in more than the Reader.
And, unfortunately, you have not said a single word to defend yourself to counter the media accusations.
Who do you think the public will believe, and who do you think this hurts? Well, you will always have your anonymous defenders on the SCC blog who just know it ain't true. Unfortunately, that also won't help with the public.
And yes, I'd plead the fifth too. But I wouldn't expect to come out of it smelling like a rose.
You are a fucking retard if you think Burge could say anything to the media without it being an ambush. I'm sure his lawyer has told him to keep his face off TV. Once again, name the bosses rumour monger, name them...
Right, what we need is absolution for any and all pass injustices, because what happens in the past, stay in the past.
Is the FOP paying for the lawyers involved in the Burge case. The FOP should pay for legal representation. It is like a car insurance policy. If the policy was in effect during the incident then the insurance company pays, so should the FOP. Pay the legal bills FOP.
11:50 you are a fucking retard if you think I said he should talk. I said I WOULD NOT TALK in his shoes. Put down the crack pipe and take a deep breath.
What we are talking about is how this will be perceived. The perception is that allegations have been thrown out and not answered. If you have ANY relationship with the CPD, you know exactly how silence is viewed. By the public, by the CPD, by anyone.
So no, from his viewpoint he should almost certainly keep his mouth shut. I would.
And who gets tarnished by this?
Everyone in uniform. It might not be right, but it is what it is.
John Burge was the best boss I ever worked with (I emphasize with as well as for). Thank you John. My time is about ready to finish on the CPD, but I will always remember John Burge in a great way. Thanks "Boss" Burge. Burge is the only guy I call "Boss".
7/02/2006 11:43:18 AM
Thanks John. Unfortunately, it has been in more than the Reader. And, unfortunately, you have not said a single word to defend yourself to counter the media accusations.
7/02/2006 12:28:28 PM
11:50 you are a fucking retard if you think I said he should talk.
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You sound like a lawyer with all your double speak. Once again, name the bosses...
The 4th Estate has done their job well. Someone pointed out to me the other day the disparity in approval ratings for Clinton & Bush at this point in their Presidencies. Once again, the 4th Estate has done their job well.
7/02/2006 10:56:22 AM
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Oh boy. stay focused. Take your pills.
Anonymous said...
Let us not forget, Burge did not prosecute any of those individuals. Who was the states attorney who approved the charges? What assistant states attorneys were involved?
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you can't blaime the prosecutor for this. It's not like the Det. came to the ASA and said, "Here's the case. Oh, by the way, we put electrodes to his nuts to get the statement."
Look, American society DOES NOT LIKE LAW MEN. It doesn't even like LAWS. EVERYONE breaks laws and then gets pissed when they get caught. Who catches them? The police do. So if there is a chance to fvck a cop, any cop, 99.5% of American will do it.
7/02/2006 02:26:37 PM
Bob Milan, who is now the #2 guy at the CCSA office, has been quoted in the Tribune as telling young ASA's the detectives lie and not to trust them. This is the same Bob Milan who sometimes had to be pulled out of a room when he was a young ASA on felony review. Bob was known as a "hands on" guy. Now he has religion because he has designs on one day being the State's Attorney. Don't think for one minute these ASA's didn't know what was or wasn't going on in rooms. The problem is they can't stand up and say, "that guy wasn't electrocuted, he only got a slap."
Unfortunately, you missed my quote of "yes, I'd plead the fifth too" in the first post you selectively quoted from.
I think its you who sounds like a lawyer, albeit not a very smart one. The thing is just a few inches up for anyone else to see.
Good to know you have time on your hands in retirement. Ever use Photoshop? Now thats a fun way to twist things around some.
Nothing got better when the old guys were running around. Nothing.
Boo fucking hoo. Turn em all over to the savages for all I care.
From 0437am to 0236pm, Where were you when all this was going on? A seed in your moms woumb?
We all knew that sometimes people had to be tuned up by the mechanics, or else nothing would be solved or cleared.
Some cases needed fine tuning.
This did not start with Burge, it was happening in the 20's, 30's, 40',s and 50's.
My point was that the states attornies office condoned this type of behavior way before Burge was ever around and did not want to know the details. They wanted convictions, just like always, a numbers game.
I don't see anyone beating down Daleys door for answers!
Burge was GREAT for this job!!
He had BALLS!!!
Fuck these cop-killers!
The fact that you seem to be supportive of the mayor speaks volumes about you - you obviously have no idea how much the rank and file hate his guts.
I am a rank and file member with no phone call, no clout, no great spot on the job. I do not believe the mayor has been ALL bad for the city. I cannot recall the city looking better across the board in my life time (4 decades plus). I am aware and concerned about the scandals. I go along with the poster who feel that you would applaud any news that was negative almost due to a blind hatred for the mayor. While your view is shared by many, it is not the only view.
But it's the view of the coppers publishing this blog. So they get to say what they want. You want to tongue the mayor's ass, go start your
"Mayor Daley is just a misuderstood Genius.blogspot.com" website. I heard they're free.
6:50
Why don't you quit tonguing SCC's ass and learn to read while you are at it.
"you obviously have no idea how much the rank and file hate his guts".
Umm, I haven't seen the poll numbers. As a matter of fact, I do not even remember a poll of the rank and file.
Lastly, it was stated, "While your view is shared by many, it is not the only view." I know it is hard for you and many others to realize that there is more than one view.
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