To Our Math Wizards
We thought this was settled a long time ago.
A calendar week runs from Sunday through Saturday. Check it out. Every single calendar we own, including the one in our FOP book says so. Now try writing "RDO" on your two regular days off. Then count the days that don't have "RDO" written on them.
There should be five of them. 5 x 8 = 40.
No one gives a rat's ass if you work 6 days in a row during any given stretch of 8 days. The only reason you ever have weekends off is that sixth day. Is it the best schedule available? No. But does it beat having Tuesday/Wednesday off for the next 4 years due to the stagnant seniority issues? Yeah, it does.
A calendar week runs from Sunday through Saturday. Check it out. Every single calendar we own, including the one in our FOP book says so. Now try writing "RDO" on your two regular days off. Then count the days that don't have "RDO" written on them.
There should be five of them. 5 x 8 = 40.
No one gives a rat's ass if you work 6 days in a row during any given stretch of 8 days. The only reason you ever have weekends off is that sixth day. Is it the best schedule available? No. But does it beat having Tuesday/Wednesday off for the next 4 years due to the stagnant seniority issues? Yeah, it does.
posted by SCC at 12:01 AM
55 Comments:
I have worked a couple different shift patterns, and find that the Dupont is about as good as it gets in combining time worked with time off.
The Dupont Schedule is as follows --it works for a section shift crew, or a "relief week" can be added. That relief week serves as an opportunity for vacation coverage and training, if you have a small crew.
M T W T F S S
Week 1 - N N N N O O O
Week 2 - D D D O N N N
Week 3 - O O O D D D D
Week 4 - O O O O O O O
Oh wait...CPD would never allow ya'll to work 12 hour days.
That's what I've been trying to explain to some of these goofs with too much college and not enough high school! Thanks for the backup, SCC!
13 month calender?
I have worked a couple different shift patterns, and find that the Dupont is about as good as it gets in combining time worked with time off.
The Dupont Schedule is as follows --it works for a section shift crew, or a "relief week" can be added. That relief week serves as an opportunity for vacation coverage and training, if you have a small crew.
M T W T F S S
Week 1 - N N N N O O O
Week 2 - D D D O N N N
Week 3 - O O O D D D D
Week 4 - O O O O O O O
Please explain the N's O's & D's
The old Cook County 4 on / 2 off was fantastic and your days still rotate. You have fewer holidays (5 or 6) to make up for working fewer calender days in a year. Well worth it since it is hard to get burned out on such a short week.
Why the FUCK would we want to work 12 hr days. You must never go to court.
Time off has become as or more important than money to many people.
One suggestion is that instead of the Christian/American holiday schedule at time and a half is to give all members 13 personal/holidays days off that would have to be scheduled when furloughs are picked.
I may not want Pulaski Day off because my kids do not get that day off, but I would want M.L. King day off because they do. Members could get the day off for birthdays, graduations or other religious/ethnic holidays. If you are on the first or third watch and want the shift before or after a regular holiday, no problem.
There would have to be some simple rules, like a limit of two personal holidays in a row or before or after a furlough. If too many people want the same day off, those with the most seniority would get the day off and the rest would get time and a half.
Make too much sense, they will never go for it.
Straight days off
SCC you sound like a boss blowing smoke
Think about this
The department can't find "qualified" people to come on this job as it is!
think about telling people Oh by the way in addition to being stuck on midnights for the next 5 years you will also be in a Tues/Wednesday day off group for the next 5 years........
Your in the box thinking is just what the powers to be like Never Never call the bluff play it safe what do you care you are in a Sat/Sun DOG just like the rest of the house cats...
I still don't understand why we can't go to the 10hr day schedule that was implemented for the old Public Housing unit. Everyone I talked to who worked it thought it was great. Many said they were able to spend more time with their families and had more personal time. If this schedule can work in a unit,why can't it work in a district?
Give those goofs a calculator.
52.5 hrs a week would come out to 2730hrs a year.
48 hrs a week would come to 2496/yr.
Without overtime, we work 2080hrs/yr.
I'll those two clowns went to a Chicago public school!
12 hours...good lord but I have seen a better 12 then that one
In LA those who work 12 hour days workit like this.
Set days off...you would be one of 2
M,T,W or TH,F,SA and have every other sun off
example S M T W TH F A
week 1 w o o o w w w
week 2 o o o o w w w
example
week 1 o w w w o o o
week 2 w w w w o o o
However in LA coppers can work tradidional 8 hrs or 10 hrs or 12 hrs and the 10 hr day like we had in housing is the most prefered.
Anonymous said...
Straight days off
SCC you sound like a boss blowing smoke
gee, thanks for the compliment
Think about this
ok - amaze us!
The department can't find "qualified" people to come on this job as it is!
point noted - we've been making it for 18 months now
think about telling people Oh by the way in addition to being stuck on midnights for the next 5 years you will also be in a Tues/Wednesday day off group for the next 5 years........
here's where we think you are misunderstanding us. we know rotating days off are a pain in the ass, but it's the only way someone with low seniority (not us) is going to see weekends for years. you go to a fixed set of days off, you are going to murder the already dead morale of this Department
Your in the box thinking is just what the powers to be like Never Never call the bluff play it safe what do you care you are in a Sat/Sun DOG just like the rest of the house cats...
we don't think in the box. we just haven't seen viable alternatives yet. the 4on/2 off looks interesting. we heard LA has a 3-12 hour shift option similar to what nurses at different hospitals work. The Housing schedule worked too well and made too many coppers happy - so the Department killed it. as to us being in a Sat/Sun day off group AND a house mouse, you couldn't be more wrong. nice try though.
I worked the 10 schedule in 2005 and it was amazing, my partner & I worked 1400-0030. You have so much more time off & after your 3 or 4 days off you actually look forward to returning to work. Our current schedule is like everyone commented..BRUTAL!!! 12 hour days is the way to go but getting everyone on board for that will never happen. The 10 day was fine for the rapids but it did not solve the 6 day work week for all 3 watches. We currently work 2080 hours yearly and I like the 4 on 2 off with holidays only paid to you if you work that day. I know some people think we would be getting screwed but you would work less those days in the year and would never have to work 5 or 6 days in a row ever & it rotates. NYPD works 5 on 2 off then 5 on 3 off & it rotates. Good schedule but you wait 5 weeks for the weekend. As mentioned above 12 hour days is the way to go and works well for small departments (remember most of our 3rd watches are larger than 99% of this states entire police departments) but we have to many single officers w/ children and other senarios that will kill this before it is even considered. I think the department would consider the NYPD and the 4 on / 2 off schedules before the 12 days and I think the 10 hour days are great for units such as tach/gangs etc. But if you work patrol as I do we all know that 6th day has to go and with it thousands of CR# and beefs will disappear.
The city always cries broke when it comes to contract time. Why not go in asking for more furlough days rather then asking for the raise. If the union asks for 40 working day furloughs and an extra personal day and baby furlough. That is just like money in the bank. Then for those po's that want the money they can work special or side job on their extra days off. Just a suggestion. It might help slow down the burn out process too.
We get weekends 8 times a year. So, why not ask the city to give us extra furlough days, but instead of bidding for furloughs like we always do, why not just break our segments up into 5 day segments and our furlough would land between our weekends 8 times a year. That would give every po 11 day vacations 8 times a year. Not to mention no need to bid for furloughs any more. Also, each po would always know when their furloug is because of the day off group. That means every one will get a winter and summer furlough. Just an Idea.
N - nights 6p-6a
D - days 6a-6p
O - off
I'm off 6 months a year, are you?
The 6th day has got to go.... Hey SCC an idea for you, start a petition on your blog for 10 hr (housing) or 12 hr (LAPD) shifts... Lets all get behind an issue an actually try and change it, it could work if we ALL stick together for once. Pherhaps Lodge #7 will "see the light" too, well probably not.
This issue is so important. How is it that more people are not pissed off at the nonsense shifts we work.
We have one of the worst shifts in Law Enforcement. It is ignorant and lazy to think we cant or wont gain a better shift. But then why would we care about quality of life issues for ourselves and our families. This is the same attitude that keeps us still having to live in this city. Btw thank FOP for failing on both issues.
I'm off 6 months a year, are you?
Are you a caddy?
Are you a peanut salesman at Wrigley Field?
Are you bigger than a bread box?
Do you have three nipples?
All least you have a job, be thankful. Think of the millions of unemployed and underemployed in this nation.
1/02/2007 06:08:11 AM
Malcolm-- Do us all a favor and put your head in a hole, fill said hole with sand-- and don't come out until 2009. I can give a rats ass about other peoples problems right now-- I have enough (and Im sure everyone else has) of my own.
I love the 11 day furlough idea 8x a year. . . . maybe that's cause I have about a year and a half on the job and will be off all of january. :)
Here's a thought....lets THINK HOURS, not DAYS....give me a 40 HOUR work week....Cant we just work a week five days a week, 8 hours a day, then work six on, three off, back to 5 on 2 off? eventually you will get a weekend, and won't constantly have to work 48 hours per week....plus, you will have 3 days in a row off twice a month....
5 on 2 off 40 hr week
6 on 3 off 48 hr week
5 on 2 off
6 on 3 off
Malcolm X's little brother said...
All least you have a job, be thankful. Think of the millions of unemployed and underemployed in this nation.
1/02/2007 06:08:11 AM
FOLLOW YOUR OWN ADVICE. FOR THE AMOUNT OF BITCHING YOU DO HERE, YOU SHOULD HAVE A NICE HOT CUP OF SHUT THE FUCK UP. FOLLOW YOU OWN ADVICE...BE THANKFUL, BE QUIET.
I may not want Pulaski Day off because my kids do not get that day off, but I would want M.L. King day off because they do.
*********************************
I may or may not want Pulaski Day or King Day off either. But it doesn't fucking matter because if it's not on my RDO I have to request Day Off Holiday. I'm sorry your cushy job makes you take the holidays off in addition to your forced 5 day work week. What's the odds you work 1st Watch? ZERO! Quit your fucking bellyaching house mouse.
A few comments from an old fart.I've got 30+ on this job and 2007 will be the "LAST" full year I'll spend on this job,and better yet the last year I'll live in Chicago and Crook County.I've worked every type of shift schedules this Dept thought up since the early 70's.I've rotated,worked straight shifts,and even some silly thing they did in the early 70's,where your sgt and the whole sector were in the same D.O.G with wierd ass starting times if my memory serves me right I believe the late cars on midnites started at 0100 and the early cars started at 2200,it was an idea that was very bad,and only lasted a couple of months.
I now work the 10hr schedule and "NOTHING" and I can't emphasize it enough,"NOTHING" is better than the 10hr schedule.There's no such thing as the 6th day "BURNOUT" because there is'nt a 6th day.You have more time off to spend with family/etc,if you like working special or have to for financial reasons you can work 1 RDO and still have 2/3 RDO's depending if you have weekends or not.
A couple years ago the FOP had a vote on whether we wanted 10 hr days, and the vote was EXACTLY 3500 for and 3500 against,or so the said.
In my humble opinion they did'nt want to bother with it so they rigged the count so it was'nt implemented even though there were a couple of differant schedules already drawn up and they were all workable.
In a nut shell the 10hr day is the best thing since sliced bread.It was so succesful the CPD dropped it
because the MORALE was up!!!!!!!!!
So for all of you that work the street,if you get a chance go for it,you won't be sorry.
Apologies in advance to the grammer police.Yours truly has a H.S. GED.
I HAVE FRIENDS WHO ARE ON SUBURBAN DEPARTMENTS AND THEY ARE 12HR SHITFS AND LOVE. MORE DAYS OFF AND IF YOU TO WORK YOUR DAY OFF FOR OVERTIME ITS AVAILABLE.
12HRS DAYS, ARE THE WAY TO GO.
I TALKED TO FRIEND OF MINE WHO IS A SERGEANT IN THE BOCA RATON FLORIDA PD. THEY HAVE 12 HRS SHIFTS. YOU WORK THREE ON THEN THREE OFF AND THEN WORK THREE ON AND FOUR DAYS OFF. YOU ARE ROTATINGDAYS OFF AND YOU GET AND EXTRA DAY OFF ONCE A MONTH.
SCC is bought and paid for. They found out who he was and pulled him up to the 5th floor by his nut hairs.
Scc you just don't get it.I'm not talking about from week to week, What I'm saying is 8 1/2 for 6 days is dangerous,the dept is aware. they don't care, another reason to keep us fighting. However most, if not all of the dept chiefs work 10 hrs 4 days and love it. Police officers we do nothing put sell each other out. sickening
try using comp-time you have to burn 12hrs? Wtf!
I have 24 years on and have worked all over the city. I have worked with the best cops and the best dogs. I have yet to see one of them actually work 8 hours.
Mark Donahue and Kevin Graham (the work schedule chairman) should have given us an alternative by now. What happened? The rank and rile deserve something. When will it stop? Kevin Graham works a foot post in 023 and Mark Donahue works at FOP. Please put a stop to the work schedule abuses Mark and Kevin.
Give patrol weekends off and make the bosses, and house mouses work weekends for them. Tell the bosses and house mouses that they can have 3 weekend days off per month. Patrolmen would only have to work 3 weekend days per month.
scc do it start a petition I'm working a beat the 6th day is killing me. we can stick together on this. United we stand. (the bosses love it)
you goof. how often will you use comp time.
1/02/2007 05:11:33 AM
Makes no sense to me.
What do you do when you get the wedding invitation in Feb for
Memorial day weekend and you
had to have requested to use
a "holiday" back in November?
I'll take the 12hrs cu for the Holidays I work over your plan every time.
10 hour days are the way to go. worked them for 4 years, now I'm back to this shit schedule 6 on two off. Every place I ever worked I was payed at time + 1/2 for working a scheduled Sunday. I think the FOP needs to work on it for next contract.
TAKE ANOTHER VOTE FOR THE 10 HOUR DAYS AND HAVE IT COUNTED BY AN ACCOUNTING FIRM. I BET THE VOTE COME OUT 90% FOR 10 HOUR DAYS.
actually its quite simple, 6 on 3 off, that way your RDO's will rotate and will always have a 3 day weekend... think about it
To: 1/02/2007 03:17:07 PM, who commented about the plan to pick your holidays when you pick your furloughs. Reread the idea and think about it. When you pick your furlough, you know what your day off group is and can calculate it on those nifty calandars they give all of us. You should know when most of your family and religious events will be then next year in November. You would still have your personal days, BFDs and comp time to deal with the rest.
Oh, and do I have a cushy job?? I work patrol, midnights in 010. Working the 1st watch for years, (by choice so I can take care of parental matters), many times I wanted the day off before the holiday so I could enjoy it with my family.
Reread the proposal and think about picking your own holiday schedule. What's wrong with giving us a choice in the matter. It really does not matter to me any more, I am retireing this year but I have many friends who's lives would be less stressful if this idea was used.
Here's a thought....lets THINK HOURS, not DAYS....give me a 40 HOUR work week....Cant we just work a week five days a week, 8 hours a day...
----------------
Yo, genius...still not getting the math here, I see. We ARE working 5 days a week, 40 hours a week. Didn't you read about looking at a calendar week?
Are you a caddy?
NO, I'm a cop.
Are you a peanut salesman at Wrigley Field? No, I'm a cop - but I am a Cubs fan; damn Southside, Irish, Catholic Cubs fans - a hopeless lot.
Are you bigger than a bread box? No, but bigger then a baby's arm
Do you have three nipples?
you got me there...I do have 3 nipples
Why the FUCK would we want to work 12 hr days. You must never go to court.
Why the fuck would you want to go to court.
it was the 13th hour of the 13th day of the 13th month..."lousy Smarch winters!" we were at the school to discuss the misprinted calendars.
i left a job and came to the department becasue i was sicking of wokring nights with T/W off every week and having to try to get people to trade if you wanted a weekend off. after i got here, i worked in housing on teh 10-hour day for two years and it was the best two years of my life as far as making family gatherings, seeing the kid's games on weekends and scheduling long weekend getaways. 10 hour schedule rules!
Anonymous said...
N - nights 6p-6a
D - days 6a-6p
O - off
I'm off 6 months a year, are you?
1/02/2007 12:30:53 PM
Looks great for a slow district...12 hours of 3, 7, 11, 15 dist?....ill bet the suicide rate is going to skyrocket!!
Here's a thought....lets THINK HOURS, not DAYS....give me a 40 HOUR work week....Cant we just work a week five days a week, 8 hours a day...
----------------
Yo, genius...still not getting the math here, I see. We ARE working 5 days a week, 40 hours a week. Didn't you read about looking at a calendar week?
1/03/2007 01:17:21 AM
Screw the math....that schedule looks good....5 on 2 off, 6 on 3 off....
NUMBERS: The real reason that the CPD went to a 13 month calendar was ingenious. It was the first year of OW Wilson as Supt.
It made it impossible for the press or anyone else to compare previous crime stats with his.
The stats were whatever he said they were. And he said his were lower!
Ya gotta love a truly smart dude.
it was the 13th hour of the 13th day of the 13th month..."lousy Smarch winters!" we were at the school to discuss the misprinted calendars.
"Dont touch
Willy"
"Hmmm-- good advice"
At oemc, we used to have 10 hour shifts which were recognized in our union contract. But the management hacks, in their infinite wisdom, abolished them. To this day, that is the one thing that everyone always puts on their wish list: a return to the 10 hour day and 52 less working days a year. Nothing else even comes close
SCC, why isn't this subject drawing a high volume of comments from your readers??
It is something that affects us all, and not in a positive way.
I work six days to get two off. It is brutal!
But most people just accept it for what it is.
Speak to members of other dept's and you'll see how bad we have it.
I agree put up another post. ask the question
ANYONE BITCHING ABOUT BURNING 10 HOURS OF COPMP IS A FOOL. YOU STILL GET 4 PERSONNAL DAYS. YOU GET BFD DAYS. YOU GET YOUR FURLOUGH. YOU GET 60 MORE DAY OFF A YEAR. YOU GET 15 HOURS ON THE BOOKS IF YOU WORK A HOLIDAY AND 10HRS IF YOU DON'T. THINK ABOUT IT THE 10HR SCHEDULE YOU WON'T NEED TO BURN AS MUCH TIME OFF BECAUSE WITH THE 10HR SCHEDULE YOU'LL BE OFF 60 MORE DAYS IN THE YEAR AND BE EARNING A HEEL OF ALOT MORE COMP TIME WHEN WORKING. wHEN I WORKED TH 10 HOUR SCHEDULE I MADE MORE MONEY AND EARNED MORE COMP TIME ON THE BOOKS. FOP OPEN YOUR EARS AND GET US 10HR DAYS!!!!!!!!!!
Thats what I was trying to tell you. You called me a math wizard
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