Gun Order Delayed?
From one of our regular readers, we get the following info:
- The ADS of Research and Development is allegedly taking input from a former range officer. This officer is associated with a business that stands to make a bunch of money as one of the agencies that would be allowed to qualify officers on their new weapon. This is also contributing to a hang up in the final signing of the weapons.
- A bunch of gun manufacturers are about to discontinue their lines of all metal guns (S&W, Beretta and Ruger). That would leave SIG Arms as the only producer of approved weapons shortly.
Anyway, the bottom line is that petty Department politics and squabbles are about to leave this Department high and dry in terms of outfitting new officers and even further behind the curve in terms of firepower arrayed against us. So very typical.
UPDATE: Since someone pointed out the fact that R&D doesn't have an ADS, we'll just name the exempt in the letter that was sent to us who is allegedly holding up everything - Anne Egan.
UPDATE: Since someone pointed out the fact that R&D doesn't have an ADS, we'll just name the exempt in the letter that was sent to us who is allegedly holding up everything - Anne Egan.
Labels: department issues
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
112 Comments:
officer associated with a business to corner the market? Is daley getting some? How about the exempts? alderthieves? welcome to chicago payoff capital of the modern world!
This Department is all legit!!!!
Ruger has a polymer framed gun that is approved.
Phil,
What's the hold up?
Can I PLEASE get my high capacity .45?
Lord knows we are outgunned right now!
The Sig is the gun of the real police. If you don't have a Sig, well, your a loser then. The Ruger? What a piece of trash.
Sig is the only one of those worth a damn anyway.
That's ok, I am more than happy with my Sig 220 .45!! Deadly accurate and totally reliable. Unless they're approving AR-15's for the squad cars, I can care less what polymer piece of shit is approved.
Does this mean that we will not be trained by the range instructors employed by the city?
Will we be paying on our own to be trained on a new weapon?
The department will not approve outside training from private vendors because they say it can not control their training but they can do it to let us shoot a weapon?
this department sucks
Last week TRU officers recovered a 100 round barrel attachment still loaded with 28 live 9mm rounds. Apparently it fell from the gun when the gang banger crashed at 67/Kimbark. (he made off with the assault weapon) This is BullS%^%T!!! Give us some firepower because god forbid one of us comes upon this a$%Hole with 100 rounds.
OFF TOPIC..........Whats with our CPD Football Team (0-4)...........we are untrained for work and NOW on the Football field??? Let's stop embarrassing this department once and for all....you guys tried it...AND FAILED! This isn't High School and I know it must of been cool to lace up the shoes and put on the pads again but for Chicago Police sake please do that under the confines of your own home...............and if you willingly CHOOSE to "TRY" again next season here's some advice (I coached in college Division III) ...Strengthen your Defensive backfield, get a new QB, get rid of that lazy offensive lineman who can't hold a block if his life depended on it (hes the smallest one on the line with 0% muscle looks like has kept all his baby fat....Ryan Ladd) and work on a better rotation for the players...if clout is now pouring onto the football field like I think it is then the team is DOOMED! -a concerned CPD officer and ex-coach.
This is the kind of crap, whether true or not, that has gotten me fed up with this department.
I'm not one for all of the conspiracy theories that we always hear, but over time, it sure takes a toll. I guess you are forced into having to look at things in a different light.
I am not a gun nut, by any standard, but I do own a Glock 9mm that I purchased while in the military. I am not a firearms expert, again by any standard, but I think that the Glock is an excellent gun. It fits my hand, I know how to clean it and maintain it, and I shoot very well with it. At least for me that is all I think I need to know if a gun is good or not. I'll let the experts debate the things I have no knowledge about.
I was looking forward to buying the .45 Glock, in part because it holds a lot more rounds, even though I may never have to use them. I would rather have them and not need them as opposed to not having them and needing them.
This just makes me sick, the thought that things are held up so somebody can get the "hook up". Don't we have enough of these problems already?? We can not even have a SGT's test or a LT's test without SOME kind of problem or rumored problem. Again, true or not, it just discredits this department more and more each time you hear this stuff. Every lie has a little truth to it.
With all the behind the door deals, the political hacks getting jobs and spots that they do not deserve, and the less than well qualified doing things or running things, when they are clearly in over their head, I think it makes us look like a joke. I'm still proud to be the police but I wonder what it will be like in 5 years from now, 10 years, etc.
It sickens me, again I do not know if this rumor istrue or not, but with the time I have had on this job and the stuff I have seen, I'm as close to being fed up as one can be.
Really, is it THAT hard to get a gun approved and go buy it?? Do we have to profit on any and everything in this city?
There has always been politics, nepotism and corruption in this state and city. It is so wide spread and arrogant now that it is right in our face and they are laughing at us. We have the finest politicians that money can buy but not the common mans money. Big business owns our Government at all levels. Taxpayers pay and pay and bitch about it and take it. Raise the fees, Raise the taxes and cut the jobs. Do what you have to do and get out of this state as soon as you can.
How about just giving us slingshots? Or rubber bands? How about high capacity squirt guns? Who is getting paid off now?
So what's new? Somebody wants a kickback,thats the way it has always been here.Why do our cargo pants cost so much?Why does any of our crappy clothing cost so much?Why is an all metal gun required?is it?,what about Glocks?I personally like Walthers,Sigs are very good,Smith's auto's suck,Ruger is now and always will be crap.If all metal is a requirement, you can't beat a 1911 modernized of course with night sights and a double stack magazine well.The problem with firearm R&D is it's not handled by a "gun guy".What does some political hack know about firearms in general?Heckler and Koch are probably the best and aren't even considerred.Beretta's are very good too and if they had an all stainless .45 Cougar I'd want it.Whatever you get don't go cheap on guns,you get what you pay for.
Yawn!!!!! Non issue. If you have money to burn, go buy some 20" rims. Some of the most deadly motherfuckers on this job never owned anything but a wheelgun.
The fact that the comment is here shows that we sometime do not read what is printed and make logical judgements on the voracity of the information. Just to show some of the errors of the comment; first there is no ADS of Research and Development, at best there is a Director. Second when has the department ever utilized an outside agency to to qualify our officers in use of a weapon. Qualifications have always been done in house by CPD personnel. I only ask that we read what is printed and make an informed decision on the voracity of whatever information is printed.
Thank you
What about GLOCK Models 22 (standard) and 23 (compact), both .40S&W caliber?
5/26/2007 02:05:00 AM
Ruger = junk. Their DA/SA weapons are fine, they make revolvers fine, but they can't make DAO weapons. Sigs are nice, but I would rather have a nice polymer high capacity .45.
Rugers are the Hi-Points of the police department.
That's ok...
I'm just going to get a sling like David and a few smooth rocks from the Cal Sag and hit the streets. It works in Palistine against tanks and soldiers, right? It's been here in front of us all along. The greatest weapon in our arsenal... ROCKS!
whats up with the ultra liberal w/c in 010 on 1st watch? what a piece of work, rwoc a r/c after a long and involved foot chase. she told the officers involved that they can not be "out here chasing people". people have the right to run from the police.
What about the shotguns and rifles?!whats an extra few rounds when we are up against uzi and other high power rifles?Are there any bossess working on this stuff...how about giving it to the officers that are willing to train with them!it makes me sick that no one cares...then again this is the chicago police deparment...
The Ruger is the Ghetto gun of the Poleeces.
Sigs are great shooters and very reliable. You are lucky if you get the Sigs.
Off topic but what's up with the bullshit electric companies running the new ads on TV. "We have a fund set up by the power companies worth $500,000,000 to help those most in need to cope with the rise in electric rates." Wait a fucking minute...You have a surplus of $500,000,000? Why did we need to raise rates then? Give me back my fucking money you heartless criminals. People wouldn't need help with their bills if the rates didn't go up 38%! What a fucking liberal bunch of propaganda. Don't let your representatives vote for a vote freeze and we'll give 500million to the poor. Fuck you...
On a totally unrelated subject, I read an article in the Trib this morning about that bank heist. Cline said that because a security officer was killed that they have assigned a bunch (don't remember the exact #) of detectives and sgts as well as numerous people from the FBI task force to catch these guys. Why cause a security guard was killed????? What about our officer, Jose Vasezquez, that was killed many months ago Mr Cline? Does he deserve a bunch of manpower put into his case???? As far as we know that has not been any progress in that case, but I guess he doesn't matter anymore, old news...... signed, sickened
I came on in 1970 with a S&W Model 19 Combat mag. .357...... (6) in the gun (6) in the dump pouch. If you can't get it done with (12) RUN. CRY CRY... Go do your fucking job and go home safe
OFF TOPIC..........Whats with our CPD Football Team (0-4)...........we are untrained for work and NOW on the Football field??? Let's stop embarrassing this department once and for all....you guys tried it...AND FAILED! This isn't High School and I know it must of been cool to lace up the shoes and put on the pads again but for Chicago Police sake please do that under the confines of your own home...............and if you willingly CHOOSE to "TRY" again next season here's some advice (I coached in college Division III) ...Strengthen your Defensive backfield, get a new QB, get rid of that lazy offensive lineman who can't hold a block if his life depended on it (hes the smallest one on the line with 0% muscle looks like has kept all his baby fat....Ryan Ladd) and work on a better rotation for the players...if clout is now pouring onto the football field like I think it is then the team is DOOMED! -a concerned CPD officer and ex-coach.
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I didn't play Division III football.
And if I did I damn surewouldn't brag about it too loud. Division III is rich kid's football.
These men on CPD are doing what they want to do. If they lose too much, and you got a problem with that, go help them out, Mike Ditka.
Division III, give me a break. What bothers you? Did Hiram beat Siwash at your homecoming?
Just stand behind Phil if under fire, at least 4-5 po's
To: "whats up with the ultra liberal w/c in 010 on 1st watch? what a piece of work, rwoc a r/c after a long and involved foot chase. she told the officers involved that they can not be "out here chasing people". people have the right to run from the police.
5/26/2007 02:36:00 PM"
Maybe you don't know the whole story, as I don't, but there is a point here.
The Supreme Court has held that running from the police is not, in itself, probable cause for arrest.
An officer who dumps an arrest report on the W.C.s desk for Disorderly Conduct (contempt of cop)because the goof ran from the police better have something else to back it up. It may have been an ultra-liberal decision by the court, but the W.C. may have just been following the law.
What about this gun , what about that gun, Who Cares, get a f$c*%ng life. I want this gun I want that, I have a 9mm but now i want a .45, I need more firepower, I need an AR-15, I need this, I need that. There are guys still on this job who walked the jungles of S.E. Asia with less sh*t than you 2 year on the job wannabees think you need to survive. Go buy a Freaking Pacifier, Kid, and shut the F*ck UP...
Anne Egan= Useless.
OFF TOPIC:
Sooooooooooo is there another P.O.
about to have his hat handed to him for beating down another youthful offender????????
Semi-Auto Order misc:
Years ago when the first push was on to approve 9mm semi-auto pistols to carry (many were OK as auxiliary, not as main weapon) the US Military also was in the process of searching for a new sidearm to replace their old reliable (and STILL the best) model 1911 .45 semi auto.
The military went through all their trials and selected the Beretta 9mm mod 92f. There were problems with some guns having failures and several manufaturers who felt the process was rigged filed suit (What, a US Government weapons procurement process RIGGED? Oh no, what a shock) and the government began the whole process again. They did the whole thing over and again selected the Berretta.
The US Government went through all this selection process, TWICE, and still the Chicago Police Department could not finish their weapons order ONCE in the same time frame.
When the much awaited order finally was released it was the longest and most convoluted mess of a weapons order in any police department in the entire United States. NO other police department has anything approaching the weapons order we are saddled with. Why? Because the cheap Chicago Police department did not want to purchase a weapon for the entire department as required by contract. At the time we all had revolvers as our primary weapon.
When it was released it was full of different dates, models and other misc. bullshit guaranteed to confuse anyone. All to save a few bucks on not standardizing on one weapon.
The Glock 19 (new at the time) was NOT included for one reason. A PO shot himself in the hand putting on in it's box with a live round in the chanber. The gun discharged in his hand while putting the gun away. Why would this stop the gun from winning CPD approval?
Aha! Because an Assistant Deputy Superintendant was also a personal injury attorney and handled the PO's case against Glock, that's why. The usual reason. $$$ for an exempt. I don't remember the exempt's name but he was Jewish and I believe also a former alderman.
In stark contract, New York City also was revamping their weapons for the entire NYPD. New York's tactic was simplicity itself, they just bought a few semi-trailers full of Glock pistols and handed one to everyone and told them this was department property and they had to return it when their employment ceased. That was how New York handled it. Of course I believe their have been modifications to New York's weapons order over the years (this was early 1990's)
So here we are again, debating the Chicago Police Department's tardiness at getting out another major revision to the weapons order. I've been here before. Do not expect anything resembling timliness or efficiency or anythng that actually makes sense to a reasonable thinking person. Those things happen elsewhere, not within the Chicago Police Department.
The final straw(s) that hastend the departure of all single action semi-auto pistols in the CPD were a couple of accidental discharge shootings that killed a PO and a bad guy, separate shootings a few years apart. A terrible tragedy with the PO; a good riddance to the bad guy, a stick up guy killed in a Burger King.
In case anyone thinks that a new gun will make a difference, shot placement is still the most important element in a gun fight not how many bullets you can spray around. Learn how to shoot any weapon very well and you are much better off than the new guy with a whiz bang pistol who never practices.
New handguns will never put us on an equal footing, shotguns and shoulder fired weapons are needed. We don't want to be on equal footing, we need to be superior.
And we need superior training, we have shit training now. If you want to learn how to shoot well, you are on your own, as always.
To:
OFF TOPIC..........Whats with our CPD Football Team (0-4)...........we are untrained for work and NOW on the Football field??? Let's stop embarrassing this department once and for all....you guys tried it...AND FAILED! This isn't High School and I know it must of been cool to lace up the shoes and put on the pads again but for Chicago Police sake please do that under the confines of your own home...............and if you willingly CHOOSE to "TRY" again next season here's some advice (I coached in college Division III) ...Strengthen your Defensive backfield, get a new QB, get rid of that lazy offensive lineman who can't hold a block if his life depended on it (hes the smallest one on the line with 0% muscle looks like has kept all his baby fat....Ryan Ladd) and work on a better rotation for the players...if clout is now pouring onto the football field like I think it is then the team is DOOMED! -a concerned CPD officer and ex-coach.
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You have a lot of nerve pal, these guys go out on their own time and their own dime and play a game that they love for various charities.
They are a brand new team, first season in the league and played the hardest schedule to boot, check out the league website it'll show ya (www.npsfl.com - www.cpdenforcers.com). They were never blown out and held the team going to the championship 17-14 at half. If you think you can do any better COACH, contact a team rep and see if you can help out.
For once can't we be supportive of our brothers in blue that are actually dong something positive. They are the only thing these days that shines a good light on this department. I for one was at both home games and plan to travel to watch them next year. They are a great bunch of guys and we as a department should be proud of what they have done. Yeah, 0-4 does suck lets give them a chance.
GO Enforcers in 2008!
A bunch of gun manufacturers are about to discontinue their lines of all metal guns (S&W, Beretta and Ruger).
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Huh?????? What are they gonna make them out of chocolate? Duh???
some of these guys on the football team never even played in high school. maybe the football team should have a band.
Ann Egan- what's the story on her and how did she earn her position.Like 'Harry' would ask, tell us about your first felony arrest.
Another P.O. messes up - off duty.
Off duty Mass Transit Officer goes up to Juarez H.S. and punches a gang banger in the face - breaking his jaw - because his son got in to a fight earlier in the day with the gang banger.
The gang banger probably deserved the punch and broken jaw, but now the P.O. is stripped and under arrest on a charge of Aggravated Battery.
I'm not judging the copper, but we have to keep our wits about us and not get sucked into this off duty bullshit. We're never going to be right in the eyes of the department or the city.
The days of going off with a full head of steam and seeking a pound of flesh in revenge are over...
Be safe out there.
to 4:34 post i agree w/ u 100% bro!! what is the future of this police dept. god only knows. every one be safe.
A bunch of gun manufacturers are about to discontinue their lines of all metal guns (S&W, Beretta and Ruger).
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Huh?????? What are they gonna make them out of chocolate? Duh???
Polymers and plastics dumbass. Instead of having to forge and machine guns out of chunks of metal, factories can mix and extrude frames at a higher rate.
Do you even know what a gun looks like? fucking civilians.
"Anonymous said...
whats up with the ultra liberal w/c in 010 on 1st watch? what a piece of work, rwoc a r/c after a long and involved foot chase. she told the officers involved that they can not be "out here chasing people". people have the right to run from the police.
5/26/2007 02:36:00 PM "
Perhaps the officers should have written a better arrest report, or for that matter, figure out what they are doing before they write the arrest report. Or ask someone for help (since they didn't know) before they wrote the arrest report.
It's obvious you weren't there, but if you were, shame on your fat ass for not helping them figure it out before they commit it to paper. Of course, it's simply easier to spread lies and hate anonymously after the fact. Coward.
Chalk it up as a learning experience. Know what to write on paper, how to write it, and be certain in your mind your course of action BEFORE you submit an arrest report. Once you bring it to the W/C, it's well past the point of figuring out what your probable cause is. You can't add anything.
DIVISION III what a joke who the f*ck cares u loser! R.L. is a pretty damn tough football player (played 4 games with a sprained MCL) and did a great job for a 260lb guard blocking guys well over 290? On top of that he is a great guy never talks shit, he just goes out there and plays his ass off for charity How dare signal him out and put his name on here with out putting ur own. Ur obviously a jealous pussy give ur name so he could kick ur ass then the rest of the team could get a few shots at u as well....ur a loser crawl back under the rock u came from jagoff
I read Second City Copper alot Im with NYPD and play football for them, and i came across the guy who coached division 3 football, and it kinda made sick. The Enforcers are a really good team steps away from being a champ. I actually played against the guy he called lazy, with babyfat R.L. #66, he isn't the biggest guy but im 305 lbs and played division 1AA ball and he was the toughest guard i played against, he had good technique, and was a pain in the ass to beat, and he actually was a pretty strong guy would not say 0% muscle. Anyway its a shame u guys have pricks like that on ur department whos gonna Monday morning quarterback something he doesn't himself have the balls to do. Go Finest
Hey advanced High School Coach (Division III). Your a joke how can u talk shit about a bunch of guys having fun playing football for charity..you should be shot dickhead. What is ur problem with Ladd? Go say that to his face, but I'm sure ur too big of a girl to do that. R.L. played with a bad knee injury all season, not many people are tough enough or devoted enough to a cause to go through that he could barely walk after every game I'm sure ur not even half the man he is. Whats wrong with u putting his name on here! He is a great guy who would do anything for anyone. I would love to know who u are, pussy.
Maybe you don't know the whole story, as I don't, but there is a point here.
The Supreme Court has held that running from the police is not, in itself, probable cause for arrest.
WRONG-O!
Unless I'm wrong, in California v. Hodari D. 499 U.S. 621 (1991) the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the police may chase someone who runs from them and an arrest subsequent to that foot chase does not violate the 4TH. ammendment. I was not there, as I am the back-up driver to the back up driver for P.C., and do not leave 35/Michigan much (unless its a lunch run to J.J.'s--JUST KIDDING). However, the disorderly conduct charge is probably what got the jag-bag RWOC'ed. Remember, the peace of the police cannot be breached (you swore to retain a "courageous calm" in your oath). I agree that somebody should've helped those guys write paper. Anyone who runs from one of us, and gets caught, deserves some sort of punishment. When you don't have anything decent to stick to the moron, a more appropriate charge could've been
reckless conduct or perhaps even criminal trespass if he ran through the yards and Miss Gran'Ma Ma is willing to sign complaints or better still, "find" a civilian victim of disorderly conduct. Often, the laws are skewed in our favor, however, we must be aware of them to use them.
It's a shame though, that the WC on 1W couldn't have shepparded their people towards a more lawful explanation of probable cause or that maybe some more experienced officers could have been consulted, as well. Hopefully those officers were not so arrogant as to not have the will to admit that yes, even though they are the world's greatest cops, they too could use some advice.
Go Seiser, its your birthday, get crazy, go Seiser, its your birthday, get busy!
Anonymous said...
To: "whats up with the ultra liberal w/c in 010 on 1st watch? what a piece of work, rwoc a r/c after a long and involved foot chase. she told the officers involved that they can not be "out here chasing people". people have the right to run from the police.
5/26/2007 02:36:00 PM"
Maybe you don't know the whole story, as I don't, but there is a point here.
The Supreme Court has held that running from the police is not, in itself, probable cause for arrest.
An officer who dumps an arrest report on the W.C.s desk for Disorderly Conduct (contempt of cop)because the goof ran from the police better have something else to back it up. It may have been an ultra-liberal decision by the court, but the W.C. may have just been following the law.
5/26/2007 08:23:00 PM
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If you were paying attention, they typed r/c, not d/c. Which I would interpret as (R)eckless (C)onduct, and should, as long as the arrest report/complaints/case report is written properly, and I'll assume it was, because I'm not a "Monday Morning Know It All Super Second Guesser Cop"(if it wasn't the Office should consult with someone who knows how to write one proper)then it SHOULD have most likely been approved.
I have made a couple of these over the past 14 years and they all were signed with no problem. Sometimes people get lazy, careless, whatever and want to do a d/c cause they don't wanna do a case report and that's gonna f it up.
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(720 ILCS 5/12‑5) (from Ch. 38, par. 12‑5)
Sec. 12‑5. Reckless conduct.
(a) A person who causes bodily harm to or endangers the bodily safety of an individual by any means, commits reckless conduct if he or she performs recklessly the acts that cause the harm or endanger safety, whether they otherwise are lawful or unlawful.
(a‑5) A person who causes great bodily harm or permanent disability or disfigurement by any means, commits reckless conduct if he or she performs recklessly the acts that cause the harm, whether they otherwise are lawful or unlawful.
(b) Sentence.
Reckless conduct under subsection (a) is a Class A misdemeanor. Reckless conduct under subsection (a‑5) is a Class 4 felony.
(Source: P.A. 93‑710, eff. 1‑1‑05.)
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"endangers the bodily safety of an individual by any means, commits reckless conduct if he or she performs recklessly the acts that cause the harm or endanger safety, whether they otherwise are lawful or unlawful."
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Did "Shithead", upon observing A/o's, run, with complete disregard for citizens safety, recklessly west to east across S.Loomis directly in the path of a southbound vehicle which swerved abruptly and braked to avoid "Shithead" and in doing so came very close to striking northbound vehicle, recklessly endangering BOTH motorists and their passengers bodily safety in the process??? (or something to that effect......)you get the idea.
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Look at some reckless conduct arrests probable cause narratives on CLEAR/whatever by finding their RD#s using the UCR, whatever it is..and learn the other ways to skin a cat.
Quite often, you'll find SOMEONE on your watch with some time who can write good paper and ask him or her if you need help. It's discouraging to go through all that for a kick in the drawers.
Good luck.
Why punch the kid when the pen and creative writing is better.... you can always find something on him or a CLOSE friend can keep your mouth shut and fuck his shit ass life up
That guy talking smack about the Enforcers should be punched right in the F'ing face and I'm sure RL would love to do it, he saw retarded blabber and laughed at it im sure, but i must say "Division 3 Place kicker Coach" watch ur back he is one guy u dont want to piss off (wouldnt want to be on his bad side)....he is as sweet as an angel and sometimes too kind, but if u tick him off and he finds out who u are u'll be wishing his babyfat wasn't ripping u limb from limb.
whats up with the ultra liberal w/c in .......
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Its called protecting a P.O. from himself. Your buddy should be thanking her for not signing off on it. Know your job!! Know what you can and cant do, and why!! Try looking up the charge for d/c or reckless conduct and actually reading them (you should have been done before your angry post). You will see that there needs to be more than just running from the police. I am sure the foot chase met the criteria for reckless, but you have to make sure your narrative reflects that. When a W/C signs off on an arrest report they are jumping into the liability pool with you. Dont get mad when they dont, its not her fault you or your buddy don't know how to write paper.
What about this gun , what about that gun, Who Cares, get a f$c*%ng life. I want this gun I want that, I have a 9mm but now i want a .45, I need more firepower, I need an AR-15, I need this, I need that. There are guys still on this job who walked the jungles of S.E. Asia with less sh*t than you 2 year on the job wannabees think you need to survive. Go buy a Freaking Pacifier, Kid, and shut the F*ck UP...
You shut the fuck up you pussy. When you can tell me what it's like to carry an M-16 around for over a year, than you can talk aobut what its like. Like most people you want to ride the coattails of people who pave the way for you instead of grabbing a rifle and extending the traditon. You my friend are a coward..... A 2 year wonder who served his time in the sandbox.
"In stark contract"
5/26/2007 09:15:00 PM
nuff said right there
Once you bring it to the W/C, it's well past the point of figuring out what your probable cause is. You can't add anything.
5/26/2007 10:59:00 PM
Why? doesn't the WC discuss a deficiency in PC with the officers to determine if in fact they just couldn't or didn't properly articulate it in the narrative, and then reject it for revisions??? I would think that at least some discussion would (and should) take place prior to the RWOC decision.
The "we can't chase people" comment seems unbelievable.
However, please don't discount the midnight mind fuzz that occurs quite often in many people....
hey 9:20 pm hire Coach Frank lenti and put some Mount Carmel Caravan players out there, maybe that will help.
The gun order has been signed, and the membership will be pleased with it. Get it together SCC.
Are the gun companies shutting down making all metal guns or just the dao guns we carry? Those companies have some very popular models that are made of all metal. I know for sure beretta is going to stop making dao pistols because we are one of very few dumbass departments that are still using them. Personally I hate plastic/polymer guns. I will use a revolver before I carry one of those.
All the gun companies should stop making dao pistols. That would force this wimpy department to give us back sa/da and we should get to choose whatever we like to carry as long as we are trained in it.
Sound to me like the P.O. could also have been charged with "reckless conduct" under the statute since he chose to chase someone when he had no probable cause for arrest. Assuming arguendo that the "citizen" then ran into traffic causing drivers to have to take evasive action and thereby jeopardizing their safety, hasn't the P.O. acted recklessly?
As others have said, its not a crime to run from the police; however, the act of running by itself creates probable cause to arrest where you catch the guy, search him and recover the gun, drugs, other contraband, etc. See the Calif case that someone cited earlier.
OTOH, even the R/C chg is bogus where the reckless conduct is the result of a chase conducted w/o any suspicion of criminal conduct. Think of it this way - if you stopped at a grade school and a 8 yr old ran from you, would you chase him? Doubtful because you would not immediately assume that he is running because he has a gun, dope, etc., yet, the older the juvenile is, the more you assume that he is holding something. Yet an assumption is not PC for anything. Remember you cannot arrest or even stop someone on a mere hunch. You must have an articulable suspicion of wrongdoing. Very possibly the guy running was diverting the P/O's attention from others in the group who were holding. . . happens all the time.
Use your heads and stay safe. He may only have been in violation of curfew. . .
The Enforcers played their hearts out this season..and for a good cause..CHARITY!
Maybe you could voluneer some of your time next season to help with the coaching..or filling the water bottles!
You TOOL!
i still prefer the colt .45 auto governmet model, still have mine ,for years, nothing wrong with it,if it was in the right hands .. i remember when manely , inspector at that time shot him self in his hand, on rush street, in the wrong hands..
The only issue presented in Hodari was whether, at the time he dropped the drugs, Hodari had been "seized" within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment, was answered in the negative. To answer this question, the Court looked to the common law of arrest. To constitute a seizure of the person, just as to constitute an arrest, the quintessential "seizure of the person" under Fourth Amendment jurisprudence, there must be either the application of physical force, however slight, or, where that is absent, submission to an officer's "show of authority" to restrain the subject's liberty. No physical force was applied in that case, since Hodari was untouched by the officer before he dropped the drugs. Moreover, assuming that the officer's pursuit constituted a "show of authority" enjoining Hodari to halt, Hodari did not comply with that injunction and therefore was not seized until he was tackled. Thus, the cocaine abandoned while he was running was not the fruit of a seizure.
Anonymous said...
Why punch the kid when the pen and creative writing is better.... you can always find something on him or a CLOSE friend can keep your mouth shut and fuck his shit ass life up
5/27/2007 01:39:00 AM
Cmon guy. to a juve gangbanger a pen aint shit. go to juv ct and sit thru a case. you'll see.
The Sig is the gun of the real police. If you don't have a Sig, well, your a loser then. The Ruger? What a piece of trash.
5/26/2007 06:52:00 AM
HEY FNG (FUCKING NEW GUY),
HERES A NEWS FLASH....
THE GUN DOESNT MAKE A GOOD COPPER...THE COPPER MAKES THE GUN...AND ID LIKE YOU TO CALL SOME OLD TIMERS LOSERS. A LOT OF THEM NEVER HAVE CARRIED SIGS! BACK WHEN THIS DEPT WAS GOOD , WITH GREAT GUYS ON THE JOB, SIGS WERENT AROUND! SO GO STROKE YOURSELF WITH YOUR 2YEARS ON.
That's ok, I am more than happy with my Sig 220 .45!! Deadly accurate and totally reliable. Unless they're approving AR-15's for the squad cars, I can care less what polymer piece of shit is approved.
5/26/2007 08:46:00 AM
YOUNG GRASSHOPPER! YOUR TOUGH SIG IS ONLY AS DEADLY & ACCURATE AS THE BEHOLDER! AND NO YOU WILL NEVER GET AN AR-15. THATS FUNNY.
Is anyone shocked at this? Get a grip.
To: whats up with the ultra liberal w/c in 010 on 1st watch? what a piece of work
The regular Watch Commanders on all 3 watches in 010 are good people and we don't know he whole story.
You can thank the "ultra-liberal" Supreme Court members thanks to the Johnson-Carter-Clinton administrations.
Anyone know when we'll be able to carry the .50 cal Desert Eagle or the armor piercing Five-seveN in case we get a bank robbery similar to that in LA.
Why should chicago police officers be restricted in what kind of handgun, shotgun, or sub-machine gun they can carry. Most suburbs don't give a shit.
nobody needs any more of these whiz-bang new guns. The CPD has enough to choose from, so who cares about having more., Just the Arm-Chair commando kids who still don't get the fact that we carry sidearms as defensive weapons, as we DEFEND citizens and ourselves, we are not some attack force. There are guys carrying revolvers who are much deadlier than the 2 yr. Kommando-Kids out there. And in case you haven't checked, the CPD is doing a great job at defeating armed felons in gun battles, so take your M-16 and go play Rambo wannabe somewhere else, Softball kiddie police...
JIM SHERLOCK he should be the quarterback ask him
1st Watch W/C in 010 in the best! How dare you try to besmirch her good name on here. I'm proud to work for her.
to 3:26pm
That .50 isnt a cure-all. Did u see that kid in the rural east; he eventually dropped that 1200lb. wild pig(hogzilla II) w/a D.Eagle, but it took many rounds.
What about a 250pounder on meth?
5/27/2007 09:30:00 AM
WHO SAID the poleece were CHASING HIM when he recklessly endangered the motorists bodily safety by running in the street and nearly causing them to crash???
You did. You CONFABULATED that.
Thats not what was said. All that was said was:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Did "Shithead", upon observing A/o's, run, with complete disregard for citizens safety, recklessly west to east across S.Loomis directly in the path of a southbound vehicle which swerved abruptly and braked to avoid "Shithead" and in doing so came very close to striking northbound vehicle, recklessly endangering BOTH motorists and their passengers bodily safety in the process??? (or something to that effect......)you get the idea.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The police never would have CHASED him....UNTIL the PC.
Don't read something that's not there or spend some time outside your cubicle at 3510 S. Michigan, Office.
The railroad police get to carry high capacity Glock 40's with lasers. Is CPD behind the times or what???
The only issue presented in Hodari was whether, at the time he dropped the drugs, Hodari had been "seized" within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment, was answered in the negative. To answer this question, the Court looked to the common law of arrest. To constitute a seizure of the person, just as to constitute an arrest, the quintessential "seizure of the person" under Fourth Amendment jurisprudence, there must be either the application of physical force, however slight, or, where that is absent, submission to an officer's "show of authority" to restrain the subject's liberty. No physical force was applied in that case, since Hodari was untouched by the officer before he dropped the drugs. Moreover, assuming that the officer's pursuit constituted a "show of authority" enjoining Hodari to halt, Hodari did not comply with that injunction and therefore was not seized until he was tackled. Thus, the cocaine abandoned while he was running was not the fruit of a seizure.
THEREBY upholding the right of the police to pursue subjects who flee from them on foot, although, the main intention of the brief is to create an exception to the
4th. ammendment siezure rule, "Hodari" was used as an example because one had posted that the police have "no right" to pursue a person who flees from them. The intent was to hopefully correct a very erroneous belief by someone that the police cannot pursue subject who flee from their presence.
...The intent was to hopefully correct a very erroneous belief by someone that the police cannot pursue subject who flee from their presence...
No doubt, but if you catch them and they have nothing, then you can't arrest them simply for running.
Additionally, if you read the statute on reckless conduct, a victim is necessary for a conviction. Whose bodily safety is threatened? We cannot sign complaints on behalf of an anonymous individual.
Anonymous said...
On a totally unrelated subject, I read an article in the Trib this morning about that bank heist. Cline said that because a security officer was killed that they have assigned a bunch (don't remember the exact #) of detectives and sgts as well as numerous people from the FBI task force to catch these guys. Why cause a security guard was killed????? What about our officer, Jose Vasezquez, that was killed many months ago Mr Cline? Does he deserve a bunch of manpower put into his case???? As far as we know that has not been any progress in that case, but I guess he doesn't matter anymore, old news...... signed, sickened
5/26/2007 04:34:00 PM
Give it a rest there is more there than you know, some of it is even on film. Remember there are no virgins on this department.
Division III? Ha ha ha, you are actually proud of that you loser, I can understand if your going to give advice if you played Div. I ball or something but seriously shut the "F" up troll. Your gonna knock on a bunch of guys having fun actually doing something for the department and charity? Why are you calling people out by name without putting your name up for everyone to see, tough guy? What are you gay? "0% muscle" Did you like his ass too?" I see that guy at work and he actually isn't a small guy if you think 6'2" 260 is small then either you look like PHil or your a roidhead either or, your still a rubber. I hope he finds out who you are and bitch slaps you like the bitch you are!! And why are you a bitch you may ask? Because you ruffled feathers everyone disagrees with you and they are sticking up for a good player, obviously he is according to a New York guy, and a good person according to everyone else..so where are your responses? Better yet where is your name BITCH!!!
There are already tons of Mount Carmel guys on the football team, so what? They will get better i went to the home games and i enjoyed them they play hard, and that lineman didn't seem lazy to me..he had two awesome blocks in the philly game along with the center that produced touchdowns. The hole for the run was HUGE,,,he man handled the philly guy all game. Oh well everyone should support these guys
5/27/2007 05:10:00 PM
You should have hit the "CAPS LOCK" button before typing your post. That way you would type like the 010 personnel use the radios. Screaming, nothing but screaming, whining, gang affiliations and other stupid shit that should never be broadcasted. You make alot of people laugh.
Memo to 5/26/2007 09:15:00 PM
The name of the Jewish ex ADS was former Alderfool Ivan Rittenberg.
The name of the ex police officer who stands to make out on the new gun order is Spiros )something or other) ex C-5 snitch. For you new guys C-5 was a forerunner of the IAD's Confidential and Corrupt Unit. The guys was a real stroke.
And last but not least - although Anne Egan is a pretty decent lady she is definetly "peter principled" - way over her head!!!
Beretta p-4 storm, awsome 9mm .40 or .45.
Anonymous said...
...The intent was to hopefully correct a very erroneous belief by someone that the police cannot pursue subject who flee from their presence...
No doubt, but if you catch them and they have nothing, then you can't arrest them simply for running.
Additionally, if you read the statute on reckless conduct, a victim is necessary for a conviction. Whose bodily safety is threatened? We cannot sign complaints on behalf of an anonymous individual.
5/27/2007 11:34:00 PM
I do think YOU, the police can sign for Reckless Conduct. While we can no longer sign for Disorderly Conduct, the Reckless Conduct charge is there for you to use.
If the offender runs from you, and during your chase you run across traffic after the offender, and the "two to three cars lock up the brakes" in order to avoid an accident - then that is reckless conduct.
You can sign the complaint for the offender putting YOU in jeporady, and if you can find the drivers, they too can sign.
It is a useful tool - when you do not have anything else. The older officers need to get over the hair gel thing and show the newer guys/gals some of the tricks of the trade. In the long run it is better for ALL of us.
TRU Warrior said...
5/27/2007 05:10:00 PM
You should have hit the "CAPS LOCK" button before typing your post. That way you would type like the 010 personnel use the radios. Screaming, nothing but screaming, whining, gang affiliations and other stupid shit that should never be broadcasted. You make alot of people laugh.
5/28/2007 04:12:00 AM
"TRU WARRIOR"??????????
THATS A FUCKING JOKE!!!
YOU SHOULD SIT BACK AND LISTEN TO THEN "TRU WARRIORS" ON THE CW1. TALK ABOUT ABOUT MAKING PEOPLE LAUGH!!!! HEY HAS THE TRU EVEN BEEN AROUND LONG ENOUGH TO CALL THEM "WARRIORS"??? THATS FREAKIN FUNNY. PROBABLY JUST ANOTHER 2OR 3 YEAR WONDER THAT KEEPS FUCKIN THIS JOB UP!!! OH YOUR KILLING ME! YOU IGNORANT KIDS MAKE ME LAUGH!!!!
We cannot sign complaints on behalf of an anonymous individual.
5/27/2007 11:34:00 PM
Oh yes we can.....
And it's done all the time. It will get nolled in court but the arrests CAN be made and ARE made....
ONCE AGAIN!!!!
3510 S. Michigan Cubicle Theoretical House Mousie Police!!!!
You know who you are and are urged to restrain yourselves from posting things about which you do not know.
No doubt, but if you catch them and they have nothing, then you can't arrest them simply for running.
Additionally, if you read the statute on reckless conduct, a victim is necessary for a conviction. Whose bodily safety is threatened? We cannot sign complaints on behalf of an anonymous individual.
5/27/2007 11:34:00 PM
I couldn't agree more, that is why the idea of using "poetic license" was included in the original Hodari post, as well as, having a civilain victim for any applicable offense.
One more thought, they coul've taken a page from the tact. team and made the initial reasonable suspicion/ probable cause "S.U.B."
Mt. Carmel Chicago has the finest high school football program in the Land of Lincoln. Don't get your nippys hard Mustang-girl just because your school finally won ONE championship.
5/27/2007 01:54:00 AM
Easy there go back to making out with your female partner in 007.
You can sign the complaint for the offender putting YOU in jeporady (sic)
Are you saying that the offender MADE you chase him for running? I don't think that would fly at all. Do you have any case to back that up? If that were the case, we could sue for any injury we sustain in attempting to catch any offender, whether s/he turns out to be guilty or not.
Anonymous said...
You can sign the complaint for the offender putting YOU in jeporady (sic)
Are you saying that the offender MADE you chase him for running? I don't think that would fly at all. Do you have any case to back that up? If that were the case, we could sue for any injury we sustain in attempting to catch any offender, whether s/he turns out to be guilty or not.
5/28/2007 06:38:00 PM
No, I am not sayig that the offender made you (The police) run after him.
If you (the police) do run after somebody, for whatever reason, and during the course of the foot chase you were almost hit by a car say, yes you can sign a complaint for RC.
I'm certain if you mean case law, when you say about a a case, and I do not have one. What I can tell you, I have had my partner do this before, and I have done this before, when we were in 5. Cynthia White, the great leader of men and women alike, she looked EVERYTHING up, and made phone calls to ASA and an ADS. Eventually, about a half an hour later, she signed off on it. A week or two later, back in 5 and same thing with me. After 10 mins, she signed off on it.
Not saying she is the know all and final authority, but she made it clear she would not approve anything "that would cost me my good government paying job".
Any CPD lawyers have a take on this??
Can you, the police, sign for RC??
Anonymous said...
We cannot sign complaints on behalf of an anonymous individual.
5/27/2007 11:34:00 PM
Oh yes we can.....
And it's done all the time. It will get nolled in court but the arrests CAN be made and ARE made....
ONCE AGAIN!!!!
3510 S. Michigan Cubicle Theoretical House Mousie Police!!!!
You know who you are and are urged to restrain yourselves from posting things about which you do not know.
5/28/2007 12:08:00 PM
...............
Gee, I always find someone to sign a complaint. I can't help it if they give me a BS name and address and they do not show up to court. I did my job.
I don't know why y'all are worried, from what I understand the typical Chicago officer can't hit the broad side of a barn, so you might as well switch to 22s so it won't hurt your wrists as much when you blast away. Plus, thanks to Chicago's tough gun laws, it's not like civilians are armed anyways.
"A bunch of gun manufacturers are about to discontinue their lines of all metal guns (S&W, Beretta and Ruger). That would leave SIG Arms as the only producer of approved weapons shortly."
That is complete BS.I go to the SHOT show every year and there are no such plans.
Anonymous said...
Last week TRU officers recovered a 100 round barrel attachment still loaded with 28 live 9mm rounds. Apparently it fell from the gun when the gang banger crashed at 67/Kimbark. (he made off with the assault weapon) This is BullS%^%T!!! Give us some firepower because god forbid one of us comes upon this a$%Hole with 100 rounds.
5/26/2007 10:30:00 AM
WTF is a 100 round barrel attachment???At least get your nomenclature right MR. Daley.
Division III? Ha ha ha, you are actually proud of that you loser, I can understand if your going to give advice if you played Div. I ball or something but seriously shut the "F" up troll. Your gonna knock on a bunch of guys having fun actually doing something for the department and charity? Why are you calling people out by name without putting your name up for everyone to see, tough guy? What are you gay? "0% muscle" Did you like his ass too?" I see that guy at work and he actually isn't a small guy if you think 6'2" 260 is small then either you look like PHil or your a roidhead either or, your still a rubber. I hope he finds out who you are and bitch slaps you like the bitch you are!! And why are you a bitch you may ask? Because you ruffled feathers everyone disagrees with you and they are sticking up for a good player, obviously he is according to a New York guy, and a good person according to everyone else..so where are your responses? Better yet where is your name BITCH!!!
______________________________
Like a NYPD football player would write in because he so happens to remember how "tough" the offensive guard was!! what a joke!.....Hey Ladd quit responding numerous of times pretending to be other people
your not fooling anybody!
10:40AM---
If you go to the SHOT show every year, you should spend a little more time talking to the reps - Ruger no longer manufactures any gun on the CPD approved list, Beretta has recently stopped manufacturing any weapon on the CPD approved list, S&W has made it so difficult to get DAO weapons that none of the dealers are carrying them anymore, and SIG is throwing more and more weight behind going to a polymer frame series - also not on the approved list. Read a little bit, talk to people, look at a website now and then - pretty soon new CPD officers will only have one choice (and pretty much do now) - the SIG.
Like a NYPD football player would write in because he so happens to remember how "tough" the offensive guard was!! what a joke!.....Hey Ladd quit responding numerous of times pretending to be other people
your not fooling anybody!
--------------------------------
Hey, I had a knee injury the whole season and I still played my heart out. Even with my bad knee there was NO ONE better than me on the bench. I was the BEST O-Lineman on my High School Football team as well. I'm 6'2, 260 pounds, I can bench press 205 X 3 times and squat 225 X 5 (with a bad knee) so you better watch who your messing with.
I play HARD and train HARDER. You can ask anyone if they want me on their team and they would say "YES"
Hey, I had a knee injury the whole season and I still played my heart out. Even with my bad knee there was NO ONE better than me on the bench. I was the BEST O-Lineman on my High School Football team as well. I'm 6'2, 260 pounds, I can bench press 205 X 3 times and squat 225 X 5 (with a bad knee) so you better watch who your messing with.
I play HARD and train HARDER. You can ask anyone if they want me on their team and they would say "YES"
_____________________
-Dude if you can't bench your own weight then theres a problem.
-and you made fun of Division III football when your throwing around that you were the best on your High School Team then your a TOOL?
-You actually used the phrase "I play Hard and train Harder"...again ur a TOOL.
-After what I just read the only team they would say "YES" to you is maybe "girls basketball"
Is this R.L. in TRU.....This would all make sense then.
AR-15 are old school. How about the M-4.
WE SHOULD BE REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE NEW AMERICAN AL-QAIDA WARNINGS JUST ISSUED. They are stating an attach will happen on our soil if Pres. Bush doesn't pull out of Iraq. Hope we are prepared. Need more ICE sweeps by the "G" in the Bridgeview area. Next time you go into a gas station, a corner store, liqour store look at the way they look at you. They know something...
Hey, I had a knee injury the whole season and I still played my heart out. Even with my bad knee there was NO ONE better than me on the bench. I was the BEST O-Lineman on my High School Football team as well. I'm 6'2, 260 pounds, I can bench press 205 X 3 times and squat 225 X 5 (with a bad knee) so you better watch who your messing with.
I play HARD and train HARDER. You can ask anyone if they want me on their team and they would say "YES"
______________
I'm on the Enforcer's football team and I can be the first to tell u that we have defensive backs STRONGER than him that would probably do a better job on the line!
THIS IS R.L. I WASN'T GOING TO RESPOND TO YOUR JEALOUS RAMBLINGS BUT WHAT THE HELL. I DONT KNOW WHO YOU ARE "YET" AND I HAVE NEVER TALKED TO YOU BEFORE, SO BY YOU STATING MADE UP BULLSHIT ABOUT MY KNEE, WHAT I DO AT THE GYM, AND THE TYPE OF PERSON IAM IS PRETTY GIRLIE BY ITSELF. NONE OF THOSE COMMENTS ARE MY RESPONSES TO YOUR IGNORANT COMMENT ABOUT THE ENFORCERS QUARTERBACKS, DB'S AND ME, I APOLOGIZE FOR MY FRIENDS AND TEAMMATES WHO MIGHT HAVE TAKEN IT TO HEART AND STUCK UP FOR ME,,,AND MADE YOU LOOK LIKE AN ASS, SO STOP TRYING TO SAVE FACE WITH MORE BULLSHIT STATEMENTS. I NEVER EVER STATED I WAS THE BEST O-LINEMAN IN HIGH SCHOOL BECAUSE I WAS A DEFENSIVE END JAGOFF. I NEVER SAID I WAS BETTER THEN ANYONE ON OUR BENCH AND IF SOMEONE WAS BETTER I WOULDN'T HAVE STARTED FOR 2 YRS AND THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN FINE WITH ME, AND YOUR RIGHT I'M NOT AN O-LINEMAN NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUT NO ONE ELSE WANTED TO DO IT SO I PUT ON SOME UNNEEDED WIEGHT AND DID IT FOR THE TEAM, BUT YOU DONT EVEN DESERVE AN EXPLAINATION BECAUSE AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED YOU ARE A SPINLESS PUSSY WHO CAN'T EVEN GIVE A NAME OR COME TALK THIS SHIT TO MY FACE AND YOU PROBALLY NEVER WILL. I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT YOUR PROBLEM IS TO MY FACE?? YOU SPEAK OF ME AS A LITTLE WEAKLING, WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF? BUT YOUR SLANDERING MY GOOD NAME AND I NEED TO SET THINGS STRAIGHT. SO WHO EVER YOU ARE GIVE IT A BREAK DUDE IF YOUR NOT GONNA SOLVE THIS ISSUE TO MY FACE THEN FIND SOMETHING ELSE IGNORANT TO DO YOUR NOT IMPRESSING ANYONE.
TO THE GUY WHO ASKED IF I AM IN TRU "NO I AM NOT!!" THANKS TO THE GUYS WHO STUCK UP FOR ME THANK YOU.
THATS ALL IM SAYING HAVE FUN WITH YOUR BULLSHIT BUT LIKE I SAID YOU HAVE A PROBLEM BE A MAN NOT A 9 YR OLD GIRL AND SAY IT TO MY FACE, AND PLEASE STOP WATCHING ME AT THE GYM YOU HOMO IT'S CREEPY :) HAVE A NICE DAY LADY
Ivan Rittenberg was about the worst W/C I have ever personally encountered on this job, and this is going back well over 20 years.
What a spineless piece of crap.
He would get a CR number on a chair if he could, without getting any of the facts first. The man couldn't turn in his badge fast enough for me.
Anonymous said...
AR-15 are old school. How about the M-4.
5/29/2007 10:55:00 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble,but its the same weapons platform.M-4 has 14.5" barrel,larger handguards,modified feedramp,collapsible stock.But its the same weapon Armalite developed in the 1950s.Stop listening to the range clowns.
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as17-e.htm
While the Ruger "P" series of pistols often have heavy/stiff triggers,lackluster ergonomics.
Don't count on a Ruger going "Click" when someone sticks it in your chest.Ruger makes very high quality firearms.
Ruger is not NOT in the same category as: Raven,Bryco,Loricin,Jennings,Stallard,High-Point,Cobra,Davis.
SCC...You have smeared me, and I need to respond. In August of 2004 I submitted my Glock pistol report. My report was intended to rebut portions of the report R&D filed for this pistol. This document was sent through the chain of command and is available for anyone to see if they want.
Of course, it's always easier to sling mud than get informed, so I will summarize my report... The Glock is a remarkable pistol; demonstrate competence, carry what you want...If this is a "pan" of the Glock pistol then please, get your mommy to help you with the big words.
NOW...as for demonstrating competence. I called all the major agencies that approved the use of the Glock. Lt Nick Zingo, rangemaster for LAPD sent me their entire pistol program. I toured Milwaukee PD and their impressive firearms training facility/program. I also spoke to the Feds. My report said that the Glock pistol MUST be married to more and better training, if not accidental weapon discharges WILL occur! I recommended that CPD establish a pre-test screening (like LAPD) for those who desire to carry the striker fired pistols. This pre-test would have two parts. Part one would be a dry drill ( unloaded gun) performance test where an officer would demonstrate to a R/O safe gun handling, field strip, malfunction clearance, cover down, trigger discipline...if the PO passed this they would be given the live fire test. This would be a qualification course, with a pass/fail standard. The course was typical of other Glock Depts. If an officer passed the two part test, they could carry whatever they wanted, provided the gun had certain minimum safety features.
IF YOU DID NOT PASS, you would be told to come back when you are ready. The test procedure would be published, and the standards would be up-front, no suprises. the test would be properly administered...no winks, no nods, no BS, no risk of future lawsuits and lawyers taking away our homes.
If you failed there would be no disciplinary action taken against the officer and you could get up to speed in any number of ways; you could ask the range guys for help, you could practice, you could attend the Manfrie class, you could pray, drink heavily, whatever...you could even pay outside trainers to help you,and there are dozens of organizations that offer this sort of training. KEEP IN MIND, THE POLICE OFFICER CAN DECIDE FOR THEMSELF.
That was my proposal!
High speed officers pay nothing, those who need to polish skills have lots of options, including hiring private coaches.
I thought SCC believed in capitalism? I guess not.
I submitted this proposal in 2004, I did not start private training until 2006.
The fact that this issue reared its head at a recent meeting is out of my control, the Dept has had my report for almost 3 years. Any exempt can decide to use the suggestions of a lowly partolman for toilet tissue any time they want.
The Glock Pistol.
I must admit, this pistol causes people to get very emotional, I've never seen anything quite like it. Look folks...IT'S JUST A GUN!!! it won't make you taller, smarter, thinner, a better policeman or more attractive to chicks.
The FBI just burried an agent in New Jersey, it was a friendly fire accident.
I know the blog says I have 4 years on the job, and I never made an arrest, but actually I have 26 years as a cop. I have seen several people accidentally shoot themselves. The deer-in-the-headlights look on their face, the hollow ringing in the ears, the smoke around the wound, the gushing blood. The ruined careers, the permanant injury. I want a program that keeps those accidents from happening. The Glock has a 1/2 inch range of motion, 5.5 pound trigger, with 1/4 inch reset and no real safety once the finger is in the trigger guard; if the operator is not thoughtful, accidental discharges's WILL happen... and this goes for any weapon not properly used, including revolvers!
This Dept took 1911's away years ago, the fact is the 1911 has external safety features and is safer than the Glock. How many AD's will it take for the Dept to recall the striker fired pistols? Proper training is essential, to protect the officers health, safety and financial future. In this current hostile political atmosphere it's essential to have proper training and documentation to protect the officer and his family.
I don't know RL nor have I ever seen the Enforcers play. I did play organized football and I can't imagine who these Division III assholes are.
Say it to his face if you have a problem with him or come out for the team and outplay him for his position. If you can.
Have used the Ruger for 12 years. Difficult to master. Fired several thousand rounds before I was confident of my skills with it. Passed qualifications easily, but I'm talking about being confident using it for real shooting.
You have to work at it to get results out of this gun, but it can be done.
It is durable, relaible and a great short distance and cold weather gun. But that 2-1/4 inch barrel is a poor match for the longer barrel of the Beretta.
I saw eight people in my academy class initially fail the firearms course and six had Rugers. Never saw anyone shoot a competition with a Ruger.
Someone told me they added the 89 to the list as a low cost alternative for the recruits. It is low cost. I have had to really keep on top of my range practices to keep up my skills with this gun. I am not a gun freak, this is just one man's opinion and experience with this gun over a period of time
SCC...You have smeared me, and I need to respond.
First up, who the hell are you? Second, we defy you to note anyplace we have smeared anyone.
I thought SCC believed in capitalism? I guess not.
What does any of that comment have to do with anything? We believe on capitalism just fine, but what we're reading about is like Walsh Construction claiming to have no inside knowledge of the contract bid process. Again though, we didn't write it - you aren't reading the post.
As to the rest of your comment, its published in full. Hope you're happy.
RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
Rule III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET
5/30/2007 08:04:00 PM
said
"The Glock Pistol.
I must admit, this pistol causes people to get very emotional, I've never seen anything quite like it. Look folks...IT'S JUST A GUN!!! it won't make you taller, smarter, thinner, a better policeman or more attractive to chicks."
It's about going home to your family!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Conventional DAO triggers make it hard to shoot a handgun accurately.
What do you think happens on the street when people struggle with these abominations on the range?
I've seen the results, we all have.
YOUR RIGHT I'M NOT AN O-LINEMAN NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUT NO ONE ELSE WANTED TO DO IT SO I PUT ON SOME UNNEEDED WIEGHT AND DID IT FOR THE TEAM
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Yeah right, im sure you were "thinking" of the team as you were scrarfing down those chili-cheese-dogs & cheese fries!
Anonymous said...
10:40AM---
If you go to the SHOT show every year, you should spend a little more time talking to the reps - Ruger no longer manufactures any gun on the CPD approved list, Beretta has recently stopped manufacturing any weapon on the CPD approved list, S&W has made it so difficult to get DAO weapons that none of the dealers are carrying them anymore, and SIG is throwing more and more weight behind going to a polymer frame series - also not on the approved list. Read a little bit, talk to people, look at a website now and then - pretty soon new CPD officers will only have one choice (and pretty much do now) - the SIG.
5/29/2007 09:10:00 PM
I do talk to the REAL FACTORY reps and not the locally hired sales rep bozos.The point you missed is that folks are posting that S&W,Ruger and Beretta are stopping production of metal framed pistols,BS.
Just because they don't make models for CPD specs is tough shit.DAO sucks big donkey dick(there are some exceptions) and the trend is to move away from them.CPD is WAY behind the times in all areas of policing.
The Glock,while officially classified as DAO,isn't really a true DAO system like other pistol makers use.Thats one reason for the Glocks dominance(65-70%) in the LEO field,besides price.Its also one hell of a pistol.
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