Unprepared on Purpose
Is the Department being willfully blind by under training it's officers? From the comments section:
- I actually tried to recertify this year with the shotgun certification program but since Im no longer on a gang or tact team I was denied, even though I stated in my TO/FROM that I'd even go on my own time. I work midnights and thought it might be good to have an officer or two that was trained and certified with the shotgun since the gang and tact teams are all done by two, God forbid something serious were to happen where a shotgun would help out. Thats how much the powers that be really want to be prepared.
- I recently left a certain unit(yes voluntarily) in which I was shotgun and heavy weapons certified to go back to a district and work the first watch(family reasons, couldn't do the rotating shifts anymore) and was told by the first watch W/C that I would not be able to re-certify because these things "were not needed on the watch." I guess being prepared and officer well-being is not needed on the watch.
Any W/C that would take this attitude is really begging to be put in the cross hairs of a post incident debriefing. Sadly, this isn't a unique attitude. Probably under a half a percent of the Department is shotgun qualified at any given time, and the shotguns supplied are pretty ancient Remington 870's. Fortunately, the Remington is a fairly low maintenance shotgun because the condition of some that we've seen is pretty sad. But still, unless you train with the gun regularly, you're more of a danger to your co-workers than bad guys.
We remain of the opinion that there ought to be gun safes in at least one or two sergeant's vehicles in every district with a couple of long guns, rifles and shotguns. There also ought to be at least 10 people trained on every single watch to handle these weapons. When you need these types of guns, you need them right away, not 10 or 12 minutes later. This is a simple, cost effective way of getting a little edge on the street in the event of a real emergency.
We remain of the opinion that there ought to be gun safes in at least one or two sergeant's vehicles in every district with a couple of long guns, rifles and shotguns. There also ought to be at least 10 people trained on every single watch to handle these weapons. When you need these types of guns, you need them right away, not 10 or 12 minutes later. This is a simple, cost effective way of getting a little edge on the street in the event of a real emergency.
Labels: department issues
posted by SCC at 12:02 AM
46 Comments:
Can not do that SCC - silly you.
That would MAKE sense - and we can not have that!
Instead, lets shift the hours of everyone...1400, 1500, 1600, 1700, 1800 and 2000 hour roll calls are the way to go.
It will never happen with this ultra liberal mayor who could care less about properly arming the police.
Look back to "9-11". We were under attack and he was pissed S.O.S were showing long guns at critical faclities. Many know his irate actions that day.
The only thing he concerned about are planters, looting the city, and HDO. forgot.... and hitting us with more b.s. taxes.
This man belongs in club fed.
I was certified last sept in beautiful shithole harvey! But our unit has no shotguns! Or any heavy weapons don't want to upset the terrorists or gang banging punks! thanks daley asshole!
I NEVER THOUGHT THE DAY WOULD COME THAT I WOULD EVER GIVE UP BEING THE POLICE, BUT THAT DAY CAME ROUGHLY ONE YEAR AGO. UNLESS ITS ANOTHER OFFICER, MY FAMILY, FRIENDS OR NEIGHBORHOOD YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN. LIKE I SAID IN A PREVIOUS POST, ALL YOU BLEEDING HEART LIBERALS CAN ALL GO FUCK YOURSELVES. THE MOORELOCKS CAN DO WHAT THEY WILL WITH YA. JUST CALL ME UP AFTER AND I'LL STOP BY AND WRITE YA A REPORT.
Just wait until there is a North Hollywood shootout and many civilians and PO's get killed.
It should take SWAT about one hour to get there and foget about the repsonding PO's having any sort of firepower past their 9mm's.
I hope the families of those dead sue the city for not being prepared.
If I was on the jury, I'd find in their favor and award tens or hundreds of millions of dollars.
If the average Joe only knew how unprepared we were. Let's hope for Daley's sake the IOC doesn't know!
Godforbid a terrorist attack happens here.
we will never have the edge thanks to daley, after 9/11 he didn't even want the military to carry m16 at the airport. plain and simple ,we will never have the edge , no matter what, not even during the olympics, not tourist friendly.....
Ever since Jesse said he wanted the SHOTGUNS removed from the front seat and into the trunk , about 1970 . The dept. has gone down hill in regards to weapons.
Shotguns? Are you guys going duck hunting or what? M4's is what you need. Does the city still use paper shells? Please no more bird guns on the street.
Well, the average Joe knows now that we're not prepared...Thanks to this stupid ass post and blogsite.
God help us if anything like the uncident that occurred in L.A. a few years happened here. Heavily armed and fully body armoured bank robbers hold off and seriously injure numerous P.O.'s and civilians. Cops broke into a gun so they could get heavier weapons.No gun stores here. You would have to wait lord knows how long for our heavy weapons guys. Don't worry about shotguns in station. Guess it couldn't happen here. Oh yeah, the bank robbery in 006 was bad but at least the CPD can't get sued for shooting a bad guy or chasing the get away car, because it was over before we got there. Good day for CPD bad guys got away, no suits, whewwwww. It is absolutely ridiculus a well that Tact teams don't bring at least one shot gun on every warrant.Someday it will hit the fan. Moniqe Bond will have to make all kinds of lame excuses why the Department is so wofully unprepared for heavy weapons situations.
Pallidin
That's why I pack my personally owned Rock River AR-15 Carbine in the trunk of the squad every night. I can give a fuck less if I get fired for using it in an emergency situation,As long as everyone on my watch goes home that night then it's justified. I got everything I need with (4) 30 round Mags loaded with M855 62gr steel core penetrating rounds.
This City is all about politics. I'm so sick and tired of the bullshit this department gets away with. We are under armed, undermanned and our hands are tied to do real police work. A weapon order that should have come out months ago is still sitting on someones desk, until the city finds a way to grease their pockets off of it. We have no heavy weapons available to us and the department doesn't give a shit. If it was up to the department and Daley we would be unarmed like Aviation police. Maybe Daley will take our handguns and have us keep flowers in our holsters to pass out to the scumbags. We can carry Asp's now if we are trained, but we still only can carry those worthless stinger flashlights on duty. Why not bring back the Maglight if we train with it. It saved quite a few coppers lives on 1st watch in past years. The vehicles we have are outdated and held together with bubblegum and duct tape. Daley and the exempts don't care. They have new cars and proper equipment. Hey if a cop gets killed because of not having what he or she needs, boo hoo, we'll hire another one. There is not one boss who gives a shit or has the balls to listen to the working cop and stand up and do the right thing. They are afraid if they speak up they will lose their cush job and car. If anyone believes that there is anything but politics that runs this city, loook at the Aviation Police. Unarmed, run by political hacks and they are supposed to be protecting the airports. Think the CPD at the airports can do anything if something jumps off. All they have is guys who should have retired years ago or coppers who would run the other way. Daley hates the Police in this city, no matter what depament it is. Sorry for the long rant but all we are is puppets for a Mayor who would rather grease his cronies palms and fill his pockets with cash. All it is, is smoke and mirrors. Screw Daley, the alderman and the puppet exempts. As long as we have an ass like Daley for Mayor, nothing will ever change.
It will take an incident where several P.O.s get gunned down along with some innocent civilians for the city to make the changes that have become neccasary. We are outgunned and now we have plenty of gangbangers coming back fron Iraq with military training. DO NOT GET INTO A FIGHT YOU CAN NOT WIN WITH A GANGBANGER OR TERRORIST WITH HEAVY WEAPONS. We will pick up the bodys and go home to our families and watch the stuttering little prick lie on TV about how you cant prepare for this DALEY AND THE DEPT HAVE MADE A DECISION TO LEAVE THE CITY VULNURABLE.
Last week the TRU Unit recovered a 100 round barrel clip that attached to the top of some type of military assault weapon. It still had 28 live 9mm rounds in it. It fell off the gun when the gang banger hit a tree at 67/Kimbark (his brother was just killed the day before) unfortunately for us he did get awar with the gun. Full Auto??? I would bet it is!!! We need the long guns OUT ON THE STREET. Not locked up in the unit. By the time you get to the unit and back ITS OVER!!! Suburbs allow their officers to purchase long guns and keep them in the car...why cant we do the same?
If you use the shotguns in the A/1 radio room it will be murder!
There are several generations of spiders living in the barrels that don't deserve that kind of fate.
Just stock up on the deadly keys that have been sprouting up.
I remember very clearly when a group of armed robbers were knocking off Autozone stores, you should have seen the distress in the bosses faces when they needed us shotgun qualified and we weren't,so we all had to go and get qualified,last minute and all at once. This is just an example of how this department handles anything, a day late and a dollar short.Pathetic.
to 2:45am you were right on the money until you said let's hope for daley's sake..... FUCK daley. he doesn't give a shit about anything or anyone except his cronies, and you are worried that "he" might not get his olympics ? i hope he falls on his fat face and there is an all out revolt against him and the city when the olympics go to a nice crime reduced city and the citizens find out how much taxpayer money was actually wasted on this debacle. i will write the report for the victim's after the fact, but i will not put myself or my fellow officers in the wringer for this asshole.
How insane. My department makes every officer qualify with the shotgun when they do their annual qual with their pistol. This way, the whole department is always shotgun certified.
Liabilty carries more wieght than the guilt of the death of fine officers. Let's get real folks, we are the expendable, blamable, targetable, gullible and sometimes loveable police pawns.
Society only wants us around when they need us. So lets be like our counterparts the fire dpartment; we'll show up only when called. Otherwise we'll hangout at the station, play cards, watch TV and remain ever vigilant for that call to service.
Lets see how society thinks of us then. It won't be long before we can go back to the beat 'em up boys. HOT DAMN!!!
Chompin' at the Bit
daley is the cause of everything? He is the biggest jagoff ever! why do you think even guys on his detail that he and wife shit all over are disgruntled and leaving? If it was not for d-3 pay overtime and 14 day a mont work load all would leave! This asshole needs a grabber!
Remember his lordship hates guns,"If I had my way,nobody would have them" is one quote I remember,that is except for his armed bodyguards,of course.I can't believe this guy was ever a Marine.
No shotguns please. Give these guys shotguns and they will be out shooting family pets and squirrels.
"ALL YOU BLEEDING HEART LIBERALS CAN ALL GO FUCK YOURSELVES."
this is beyond a liberal/conservative thing. And besides, conservative does mean conserve. No?
Most of you are morons. Just do as you're told and shut up.
Allah Akbar!
I think you are all crazy, noone knows just how carefully planned our response is. On the down low I'll tell you just a little of Damare's plan....
1. Flower Planters: Underneath each and every flower planter is a carefully hidden missle silo to return fire against our enemies.
2. Wrought Iron fences: These are carefully crafted in Mayor Daley's basement of an indestructable material known only to his upper echelon. In the even of an attack the fences will automatically grow to surround the buildings and protect them.
3. Millenium Park: In the event of an attack the park will reconfigure into a giant "BattleBot" with a really cool Laser sword.
4. (Still Planned) Olympic Village in the event of an attack this will become a central point of communication/dispatch as the Mayors "Batcave" will be built there The main Facility will also be transformed into a "Hall of Justice" housing some of the Mayors most trusted allies... Cortez "ambulanceman" Trotter, Ron "The Whiz Kid" Hubberman, Maria "No Clout" Maher, and a group of fighting Latinos known as "Los HDO's".
ANAHEIM CALIFORNIA P.D. I WENT ON A RIDE ALONG ABOUT A COUPLE MONTHS AGO, PRETTY GOOD SIZE DEPARTMENT SUBURB OF L.A. AND HOME TO DISNEY WORLD, WELL THEY ARE THE ROCK THAT ROLLS, FULLY EQUIP SQUAD CARS, ADVANCED COMPUTERS, SHOTS IN THE CAR AND EVERYBODY IS TRAINED, AND THEY HAVE A NEW HELICOPTER, SURE ITS LIBERAL CALIFORNIA, BUT ITS A BIG TOURIST TOWN AND PUPLIC SAFETY IS ON THE MINDS OF THE POWER TO BE. I DID TELL ONE OFFICER THAT THE CLOWNS AT DISNEY WORLD REMINDED ME OF THE MISFITS RUNNING THE CPD. STAY SAFE AND GOD BLESS AMERICA,
We are so SOFT! This Dept. is geared toward answering phones and filing bullshit non-sense that nobody is going to do anything with anyway. SHOTGUNS...are you kidding me..Could you see our 4ft Females (and Males) limp wristed one and all trying to hold the beast at bay with one of those things!
We look like a bunch of dwarves out in the field with our Baseball caps on! If anyone can imagine a "race" Riot either Black or Mexican ( I dont think the yuppies will ever Riot unless the Cubs win something)! What would we do wait on the OCD or TRU or SOS the rest of the Dept. is untrained and ready to run for the hills.
We have many that fear the Media and our Dept. has not helped us in that regard. So when the SHIT breaks loose whos going to be hands on? I hope "CALL BACK" has a Tact team!
It is not the decision of the W/C as to whether or not that officer can recertify. Basically the department only allows those assigned to certain units or tact teams , detectives etc. to be heavy weapons qualified. This is not the only training that becomes wasted if you work in patrol. Once upon a time I was a CPD trained and certified hostage negotiator, upon promotion I went back to the patrol division and have been in a district ever since (14 years, for those of you who will assume I am a two month Sgt. whining to get back to their spot). Guess what no more hostage negotiation training, no more heavy weapons training or qualifications. As a member of district law enforcement I am not considered worthy to have any of this training updated.
Imagine the HUGE class action suit when something goes horribly wrong -
FAIKURE TO ADEQUATELY TRAIN AND EQUIP...
12th Dist. should be ok. UIC police have rifles.
What do we do about the other 24 Dist?
Lets not forget, it took a currency exchange shootout in the early 90's (20th dist.-clark & ridge, officers ran out of bullets with 6-shooters), that allowed us to carry semi-autos as our primary weapons. Until then, we had to carry both wheelguns and semi-auto as backup weapons.
The bulls_it leadership of this dept. is pitiful. Simple decisions take forever. Too many bosses must be consulted for their opinions, and most of them are never on the street when the s_it hits the fan.
Most of these battles are over within 5 minutes, no time to wait for special ops, the street guy needs the right weapons right then, not in 20 minutes to 1 hour.
Note to W/C's: That goes for having all the wagons working on midnights as well. Theres nothing worse than waiting for a wagon thats parked in the station lot!
Come on Fat Man, Get some balls and approved the weapons now, before you are forced into that retirement.
this goes back to a simple reason why we are unprepared. the city and the "reverends" want us to be babysitters and social workers instead of being policeman.they care more about "caps","outdoor rollcalls",these idiotic wolfpack missions. lets not forget the great seatbelt missions! oh sure giving a guy a ticket after hes working 12 hours is really going to stop these violent animals from killing each other.they can not even give us pdts which work,so does anybody think they will actually give us the firepower we need to stop these animals.the citizens are going to be in a rude awakening when the city is going to be a violent bloodbath,citizens this is the police you wanted,soft fuzzy,and caps. folks its clear. if its not a fellow officer in trouble,who cares, just do your 0486 report after babygirl has gotten her ass beat by her babydaddy for the 100000000000000000000000000 time and forget it.be safe! back each other up. and go home to your loved ones.
WGAF, Get over it.
CAPS WORKS!
M-4s? Nothing has the intimidation factor of a 12 ga with a round being racked. Immagine stainless steel 870s with 8 round capacity. Just the sound of a 12 ga will make grown men stop in their tracks and maybe wet their pants.
12 gauge scary?? Keep pumping it to scare people? But don't your shells then fall out to the ground? Click, click, click, click and click. Uh Oh its empty? If you want to make just noise go play with your handcuffs ZZZZZp ZZZZZZP.
it is a terrible shame to force you men and women out into the jaws of death under armed and under trained
as a retiree I dont envy you guys
Please be careful
A big part of the problem is the lack of profesionalism on the department. We have too many goofs who cant take any training that we get even a little seriously. Its always "I hope we get out early", "What?? We only get an hour for lunch??", sleeping through the class, or some other B.S. like that.
When a good percent of CPD can barely qualify with their prescribed weapon (And an embarrassing percent fail annually), its hard to expect them to approve heavier weapons for us. I would like to have access to a rifle just in case I need one(semi auto will do just fine). Until I can have one, I would at least like a Sgt. on the watch to have one. Its like our vests, most will never even need it. But on the day you do, you will be damn glad you had it.
to 9:35, 9:58, 10:50 ,11:14 and the rest of you cry babies; if you didn't like daley why the hell did you vote for him?? you whine, whine, and whine but turn around and vote for the prick.I have a suggestion for you cry babies, get the twinkies out your mouth and organize a commitee that would find a canidate that would defeat this jagoff. Otherwise quit your crying.
I have to agree with the above post. I have taught in service classes at the Academy over the years and the first questions asked are, "When is lunch?' and "When are we getting out?" The worst offenders for this are Supervisors. I agree we do not have enough in service training but what little that is offered is treated like a joke by most who attend. Most in service is voluntary so please quit complaining about staying the full 8 hours.
Just look at the ones who held up that bank on South King Drive, Hmmm, they had vests. A shotgun would come into play very good aginst a situation like this, I am sure the slug would do a fine job against a situation like this. As for Harvey...YUCH!! Try Maxons out in Des Plaines Illinois. Maxonshooters.com they have a shotgun range and also have classes on shotgun training.
Take a look at the stats, how much have bank robberies increased??
It will not take long for another North Hollywood style bank robbery, and what are we going to do while we wait for the big guns to arrive?
The railroad police in 007 have High Capacity Glock 40's with Lasers. (wow) They also carry AR-15's in their trunks.
We need long guns. We need shotguns. We need better vehicles.
Well, let's see. When the Dept. holds in service training, few want to actually go. Some actually sleep through class.
Vehicles? Try taking better care of what we have. I work in the traffic division. Do any of you have any idea how many squad car crashes occur each week? And some of the BS that's put on paper to make some of the crashes appear to be "parking lot damage?" Yeah, it's parking lot damage all right...if there are trees in the middle of the parking lot!! We took a picture of one squad that actually had tree bark embedded in the grill...PO says he came out to "find" the vehicle in that condition. No one had been assigned the car for three days, the District was so short of manpower. And how many of the posters here can even remember the last time they trained with their own sidearm? Or took it apart, cleaned & re-oiled the damn thing?
While I will agree the Dept. could do better with the training & equipment, so can the rank and file officers.
Man, those railroad guys now gonna get jumped for their Ar15s.
Anonymous said...
to 9:35, 9:58, 10:50 ,11:14 and the rest of you cry babies; if you didn't like daley why the hell did you vote for him?? you whine, whine, and whine but turn around and vote for the prick.I have a suggestion for you cry babies, get the twinkies out your mouth and organize a commitee that would find a canidate that would defeat this jagoff. Otherwise quit your crying.
5/27/2007 07:21:00 AM
Who voted for him??????? I sure as hell didn't! The fact is, if every city worker voted for somebody else, we would still not have enough votes to get rid of him and he knows this, hence the reason he can treat us like crap.
RE: Well, the average Joe knows now that we're not prepared...Thanks to this stupid ass post and blogsite.
*************************************
you stupid prick! Those average joes are our families and friends and neighbors. They SHOULD know that we are unprepared and under gunned and under masked and under pdt'd and everything else. The average copper wants to be ready and to have the right equipment and training. I am absolutely no fan of the media, but not one important thing in the last 100 years has been changed without someone shining a light on it. From the environment to Watergate to health issues, everything was aided because someone did some digging around and asked some questions. So I hope the media or some 60 minutes types take this unpreparedness thing and runs with it. The line of bullshit that has been fed to the public is sickening, and hey guess what? WE ARE THE PUBLIC. So to you Mr "the average joe now knows" keep your head in the sand or up your ass or wherever it is, because something needs to be done! I repeat-you are a stupid prick. Enjoy the koolaid, dumbass.
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