Chase Policy Revisited?
Well well well, lookie here. As predicted, the "no chase" policies enacted by various Departments have had the effect that police predicted they would:
- The two men in the silver Infiniti were pulled over only for having tinted windows -- so when the driver hit the gas and fled, the state trooper had no choice but to let them speed away.
The trooper was just following an Illinois State Police policy that allows officers to chase drivers only when they believe someone is in danger or when a violent crime has occurred.
After fleeing from the traffic stop, the men inside the car allegedly went on a crime spree in Illinois corn country, fatally shooting a sheriff's deputy and then taking hostages at a small-town bank. They were arrested hours later.
So a "no-chase" policy resulted in at least one Officer being killed. Once you forbid the police from being the police, criminals will establish behaviors and footholds where they once didn't have the courage to do so:
- no felony charges for attacking the police = more batteries to PO
- no traffic enforcement = more people drive with impunity
- no disorderly conduct charge = more people actually being disorderly
- no chase policy = more people fleeing at the drop of a hat
Society gets the police it deserves and when they spend their time emasculating the police and tying their hands, one really has to wonder what they expected.
Labels: department issues
posted by SCC at 12:01 AM
59 Comments:
How many of our Supervisors would have gone over the air on the Zone and terminated a chase in this instance???
9 out of 10???
Man, what I would give to work for the 1 out of 10 that still has a set of balls and is not so afraid of the lawsuit and the pussification of this department.
cops afraid of being the police = more people shooting at the police.
Thanks media.
and judges for allowing these lawsuits.
what may have happened had the officers chased him?
they may have been killed in a gunfight or innocents killed in a car wreck
No one knows, not even you SCC
Riddle me this oh wise one.
How do you propose to stop an automobile using another sutombile
SAFELY???
Sorry my friend but the dangers associated with chases outweigh the benefits
I bet ya dont comment on this one
Well Put SCC. As Homer Simpson would say, "My sanctimonies exactly!"
What's worse is when you ad the no Balls, no Backbone Clout Baby Supervisors to the Mix who call off a chase before it could be classified as a chase. You know, like when an officer gets on the air and says "I'm following a vehicle" and suddenly a supervisor gets on the air and calls it off.
Wait until some poor child is abducted (By Stranger), or when a vehicle involved in some terrorist act goes a fleeing from the police. Then what? Just hope who ever has to answer to the media doesn't blame the poor policman/policewoman for following "Policy" or fearing for their job or assest.
Me personally? If it's a Child involved? Well, lets just say I confident knowing what most working policmen would do.
GREAT TOPIC!
Hey if one of our goofy Pocketicians (Ooops, I mean Politicians) were kidnapped and taken for a ride, are we suppose to give chase, or give up the chase?
its a shame a po got killed and not a personal injury lawyer
If they what "soft" police. give it to em. Answer jobs and do no more. Crime will skyrocket. Even if we do it for a little bit. If people only knew half of went on and the line between good and bad is very very thin in this shithole city.
to 11:22 p.m. You should be afraid of the lawsuit unless you don't mind giving up a piece of your check every two weeks to some shit head or even worse, how about sharing the value of your house with the shit head. You must be a two year wonder or living under a rock. Courts and jurys will now take your money and the city can do nothing. There is no such thing as a car chase anymore and the city will wash its hands if your chase causes injuries. You better soften yr hard-on for the car chase because for the most part it's all for nothing anyway. Have you ever spent time on the phone with felony review?
to 7/29/2007 11:25:00 PM the obvious non police liberal pussy. Before you can even try and comment on this matter, I suggest you sign on/train to become a PO, work the streets and then comment. At this time you have no idea what your talking about. dummy.
Many of you need to read the order! It's not up to the supervisors any more, it's up to the individual P.O. who is operating the vehicle to terminate when the fleeing vehicle becomes unsafe which can be a number of actions, one being disregarding a traffic devise.
I know first hand. They are trying to give me a day or two on a short chase with a hot car. Driver crashed car and was caught. There were no injuries, but they heard the tapes and feel I should have stoped chasing because it was only property, the speeds were to high and that we covered to much distance and the offender must have disregarded several stop signs. At no time did a Sgt. come on the air and terminate. Imagine how much time they would look to give me if someone were hurt. The rules of the game are now in the favor of the bad guy.
11:25.......who side r u on?
Wait until some poor child is abducted (By Stranger), or when a vehicle involved in some terrorist act goes a fleeing from the police. Then what? Just hope who ever has to answer to the media doesn't blame the poor policman/policewoman for following "Policy" or fearing for their job or assest.
I think you need to re-read the chase policy. There are times when a chase is justified, in fact, called for. Bottom line is that the benefits of the chase need to outweigh the possible ramifications of the chase. You tell me how you will testify in a court of law that you intended to stop that chase? (1) It crashed (2) it ran out of gas (3) it went out of our jurisdiction. None of these are acceptable. The department needs to re-write the policy to give us a positive way to end the chase - perhaps spike strips or teach us how to spin them out like other jurisdictions do.
If this is true it's a sad day for public safety.
Okay 11:25 pm hero, I'll give you an answer or two. Lets say the original PO who stopped the vehicle may have been killed or injured in a gunfight (maybe he kills them). This is very sad, but so be it. I'm a Police Officer, those of us who work the street and actually do are jobs know that every day after we walk out the door from our homes it might be the last time we do so.
Police work is dangerous. Enforcing the law is not an option it is a necessity. When we selectively enforce the law we encourage lawlessness.
Sorry liberal moron!!!! The immediate danger of a chase may seem like it outweighs the benefits but, in the long term enforcing the law and making it an automatic felony with a mandatory sentence for fleeing the police would make people think twice before fleeing in a vehicle.
U say how many live have been saved because we didn't chase? I say how many lives have been lost because we didn't chase?
Check this out for more enabling blather:
http://ragdujour.blogspot.com/2007/07/widow-is-entitled-to-her-grief-and-as.html
Man, what I would give to work for the 1 out of 10 that still has a set of balls and is not so afraid of the lawsuit and the pussification of this department.
7/29/2007 11:22:00 PM
If you mean it, fill out your PAR form for 006...we have more than one with a brass pair!
Man, what I would give to work for the 1 out of 10 that still has a set of balls and is not so afraid of the lawsuit and the pussification of this department.
--------------------------------------#1 know why your chasing someone #2 sound like you're in control (don't be yelling so we can't hear you #3 don't get on the air and say your just "following, when we can hear the engine reving in the background = and maybe some of your chases wouldn't be called off....
Anonymous said...
its a shame a po got killed and not a personal injury lawyer
7/30/2007 12:24:00 AM
--------------
Lawyers are safely hiding behind their desks telling us how bad we are.
I envision a day when sgts are calling off FOOT chases.
SCC, Im sure there were more deaths and injuries involving police chases than not chasing. This is one subject your desk experience mentality shows you don't know everything. Now go sharpen the watch commanders pencil so he can order lunch.
I disagree this is an isolated incident 99.99 percent of the time police are chasing cars for very minor crimes ( shoplifting traffic violations) Yet numerous citizens have been hurt or killed for no reason do to chases. ( ask their loved ones how it feels)Police officers will not use their coconut when they want to chase. ask yourself how many police officers have been killed chasing a vehicle? I speak from experience I suffered through this.
Man, what I would give to work for the 1 out of 10 that still has a set of balls and is not so afraid of the lawsuit and the pussification of this department.
7/29/2007 11:22:00 PM
Then you should have no problem...its up to YOU.... just disobey the direct order to terminate the chase. Don't get me wrong, I agree that this Dept is soft and the chase policy is a joke, but I'm not going to blame a sgt for doing what he has to do. I've seen, time and time agian, sgts terminate, and as soon as their thumb comes off the radio, the frustrated "God, I hate having to do this #@#$#!!!". We are all on the same team.
Where was the helicopter? Oh right "we work 9-12 monday to friday" Or whenever we want to! LETS EQUIP HELICOPTERS PROPERLY FUCK ALL THE TECH A COUPLE OF 50 MM MACHINE GUNS WILL DO THE TRICK AND SHIT THEY WILL STOP QUICK!
Wasn't there a chase in 003 and 006 by the TRU unit a few nights ago? What happened with that?
The problem is we as P.O.'s have Rules and Regulations to follow and General Orders also the fear of being sued.
The criminals dont have to follow these rules and it gives them another tool to use in their arsenal. Just wait till the gang bangers get a hold of this information, every time a banger gets pulled over and they know we cant chase they'll do exactly that. why dont we just give them their guns back too! Because we cant do shit about it.
OUR CHASE IS COMPLETELY F-CK UP. IT WAS WRITTEN BY CLOUT BABY SUPERVISOR WHO WERE NEVER THE POLICE.
This is a difficult topic to come up with an answer that will please everyone. I've been in a slew of pursuits over the years between the late 70's when I came on (before there was a pursuit policy) and 2005 when I retired, and I think that with age comes wisdom. When I first came on, we would chase anyone who ran from us and occasionally there would be some innocent civilians injured by the bad guy. Fortunately no one was ever killed. As the years passed though, you start to realize how fragile life is and then wonder why the hell you put yourself in harms way because some idiot didn't stop for a traffic violation. Then you question whether it is worth risking your life, as well as the rest of the public, by chasing some mope for a couple of tickets. If you don't feel this way, then just imagine that your parents, wife, children, or girlfriend are minding their own business driving to the store up ahead of one of these pursuits. Would you call it off then if one of your loved ones was in danger? Don't get me wrong, I have no problem chasing for forcible felonies, but for simple traffic, sometimes it's not worth it. But contrary to policy, I think there are times and circumstances where pursuits can still be done safely for traffic, such as during the midnight shift on certain days when there is little traffic out and about. It all boils down to the pursuing officers using common sense and knowing when to terminate.
Anonymous said...
what may have happened had the officers chased him?
they may have been killed in a gunfight or innocents killed in a car wreck
No one knows, not even you SCC
Riddle me this oh wise one.
How do you propose to stop an automobile using another sutombile
SAFELY???
Sorry my friend but the dangers associated with chases outweigh the benefits
I bet ya dont comment on this one
7/29/2007 11:25:00 PM
You my friend are a fucking jaggoff!!!! A real piece of work!
I, for one, will be LMAO when some govt. official or other important person is smashed into ground beef by some speeding prick running from the police. Then the question will be:
Why didn't the police try to stop him?
When power is taken from the police, it is automatically given to criminals.
Unless more is done to ensure that the police can indeed be THE POLICE without fear of losing their job to appease some dimestore reverend/interest group, it's only going to get worse.
Keep your heads low, boys and girls, for the shit is about to start flyin, far and fast.
OFF TOPIC:
Does anyone know about the shooting involving an off-duty copper late Thursday night/early Friday in the 010 District on 24th and Oakley?
First of all, with respect to the deputy killed by these animals, may you rest in peace.
Secondly, I have to agree with those who chose not to chase. YOU JUST DON'T KNOW HOW HORRIFIC A CHASE CAN TURN OUT. I'm in my 28th year on the job, I still hustle out there and respect some of the supervisors when they call it off. Don't get me wrong...if jagoff(s) start shooting at me and flee, my squad will be right on their ass, make not mistake about this! I would now take their action as a personal assault against me. (LOL)
Perhaps the CPD should publish as a reminder the names of officers and civilians killed as the results of a chase just by CPD.
But what ever an officers does, he/she is responsible for their actions and their actions alone. So be safe, smart and go home at the end of your shift to your loved ones.
You talk about no ball supervisors calling off chases than why don't you go ahead and chase. Why listen to them . You will be a hero. You will get that honorable mention and every one will adore. If it goes bad you could owe everything you have to an ambulance chaser or your kids could take turns feeding you from a sippy cup.
You got it backward 99 out of 100 chases are for bullshit. Empty all the piss and vinegar out your body and think for a minute, do you want your wife and children plowed into by some fleeing idiot, some idiot fleeing because he doesn’t have a D.L. I know it's a fine line but even us super cops have to think about the consequences of our actions.
cry baby hair gel police sgt sgt
sgt can a chase that traffic violator?? you already knew the answer before you asked
the old time police chase call it in when bad guy in custody
hair gel police want to blame the bad sgt if they cause an accident
wah wah wah mommy the sgt won't let me chase bad guys
I'm really on the line about chases. You have to think, our number one causes of death in the line of duty is car accidents. And that only heights are chances of getting into one. I just think it is too risky.
The best thing to do is not go over the air if you want a chase... Have your partner PDT a few cars if need be.
what happens when the city does not properly fund police pensions.
Lawyers are safely hiding behind their desks telling us how bad we are.
7/30/2007 10:43:00 AM
Your credibility goes right down the toilet as soon as this dept goes after you, Who do you call but a Lawyer crying like a little baby, (Please help me I need my job, I didn't do anything) Go back and kiss another exempts fat ass.
Does anyone know about the shooting involving an off-duty copper late Thursday night/early Friday in the 010 District on 24th and Oakley?
Someone shot into a bar or something over there. I guess some off duty PO's chased the guy. Not sure if they caught him. It was a 0450. I think. agg assault hand gun po
use cell phones with other officers in the district..don't use the pdt (they can monitor it) you can try and get needed help that way...don't come over the air cause a lot of coppers have no clue how to call a chase in and you give the sgt no choice but to terminate...roll the dice and handle it on your own if you are such a hard ass and know it will be terminated
This is why all cars need cameras. Video the car, lic #, that's all you need..f*ck the chase.. Later, go get it towed and impounded. Let a##hole reclaim his ride at court. If the dept and city played this right, it could be a cash cow for little dickie.
The best thing to do is not go over the air if you want a chase... Have your partner PDT a few cars if need be....
You got to be fucking kidding right? Because pdt messages aren't saved right? Because you can type as fast as Data from Star Trek while in a chase. How about since the city doesn't back you up on chases, or anything else for that matter, fuck'em. Don't do shit for this city, but you wanna go out there and save the world, or your ego can't handle the fact that this fuck took off from you, by all means go ahead, somebody has to do it, sure is hell ain't going to be me.
ITS ALREADY HAPPENED IN 005
good idea , the officer who suggewsted cameras in every car
record license # and at our leisure or turn information over to er towing hook the car
that would save lives and generate money for our raises
you should put that on paper and send to the mayor and superintendent
AMEN. Thank you SCC for having a blog about this one. Our "no chase" policy here in Chicago is so fucked up. You might as well put the words "pussy police" on our patches.
99% of people don't run/take off in the car for traffic. it might look like "just traffic" intially on the outside but as any experienced officers would tell you it's always something much more.
put the totality or outcome on the offenders that started and caused the chase to even begin. don't blame the copper. he/she is doing their job. we are highly trained individuals that used common sense and good judgement. STOP sending out a message to all the scum that do any crime, get in a car and you're Free To Go.
You got it backward 99 out of 100 chases are for bullshit. Empty all the piss and vinegar out your body and think for a minute, do you want your wife and children plowed into by some fleeing idiot, some idiot fleeing because he doesn’t have a D.L. I know it's a fine line but even us super cops have to think about the consequences of our actions.
7/30/2007 07:08:00 PM
Well I sure as hell hope my wife and kids arnt cruising the ghetto at 3:00am in the morning.
In Cheeseland knowingly fleeing an officer is a felony. Number of chases went down a bit when people started getting locked up.
A chase always involves some danger, especially in an urban area. But to publicly advertise a "no chase" policy is fraught with disaster as well.
The thing that needs to be done is for the prosecutors and judges to declare open season on chases, resisting, battery to officer, etc. (Of course, that means reports will need to be clearer, etc.)
Anonymous said...
How many of our Supervisors would have gone over the air on the Zone and terminated a chase in this instance???
9 out of 10???
Man, what I would give to work for the 1 out of 10 that still has a set of balls and is not so afraid of the lawsuit and the pussification of this department.
Spoken like a true one year wonder. You think it's all glory. Until you or the car you are chasing kills someone then you really feel that crunch where you stomach goes out and you can't believe you are in that situation. Not only do you have to deal with the aftermath of possibly killing someone but also of the two to three year law suit you and your family have to deal with. All because you thought you were invinsible. If only you had that supervisor that maybe cared something about you and your famly and maybe held you back just a bit. NOt all the way stopping you from being the police but maybe letting you know that you have to gauge what you are doing and not just living off the "fuck that I'm the police and he cant do that". Think before you speak
"I'll give you an answer or two. Lets say the original PO who stopped the vehicle may have been killed or injured in a gunfight (maybe he kills them)"
Maybe Monkeys will fly out of his ass during the course of the chase?
"I say how many lives have been lost because we didn't chase?"
I would say....None
The immediate danger of a chase may seem like it outweighs the benefits but,felony with a mandatory sentence for fleeing the police would make people think twice"
You really think so? The penalty for Murder in some juridsdictions is the death penalty has the Murder rate gone down??
OK, Hypothetical Hypocrite Harry,
Your diatribes are nothing more than contradictory what ifs,and nonsense. Save your philosophical inane blabber for the 7-11 Clerk who unfortunately has to listen to your CRAPOLA !!
99% of people don't run/take off in the car for traffic. it might look like "just traffic" intially on the outside but as any experienced officers would tell you it's always something much more.
Not true I'm an experienced Officer with 26 years in a beat car 18 of them in a fast dist, And I tell you 99% run for traffic only or some bullshit dollars store thief.
Well I sure as hell hope my wife and kids arnt cruising the ghetto at 3:00am in the morning.
7/31/2007 02:54:00 PM
Once again your showing your ass, along with lack of education.
In Cheeseland knowingly fleeing an officer is a felony. Number of chases went down a bit when people started getting locked up.
A chase always involves some danger, especially in an urban area. But to publicly advertise a "no chase" policy is fraught with disaster as well.
Making things up again I see. Total story teller, What about the lies.
Spoken like a true one year wonder. You think it's all glory. Until you or the car you are chasing kills someone then you really feel that crunch where you stomach goes out and you can't believe you are in that situation. Not only do you have to deal with the aftermath of possibly killing someone but also of the two to three year law suit you and your family have to deal with. All because you thought you were invinsible. If only you had that supervisor that maybe cared something about you and your famly and maybe held you back just a bit. NOt all the way stopping you from being the police but maybe letting you know that you have to gauge what you are doing and not just living off the "fuck that I'm the police and he cant do that". Think before you speak
Ask the officers Who are trying to deal with that issue, 25th dist young child killed . Grand ave, Let me tell you, how scared you are, it sucks, like living in hell.
OK, Hypothetical Hypocrite Harry,
Your diatribes are nothing more than contradictory what ifs,and nonsense. Save your philosophical inane blabber for the 7-11 Clerk who unfortunately has to listen to your CRAPOLA !!
7/31/2007 08:50:00 PM
Been their done that. Understand something your life will change. if you have a conscience you will question your own sense of right and wrong. Again I ask you what if it was your family
brother officers, as you know, you are working in a very unstable, shorthanded environment. Use caution, be safe, and call for backup, especially if you are outnumbered, even by one. It has been proven that the human eye can only observe and focus on, and the human brain ascertain, one incident at a time. Remember also, that you might think your partner is watching something or someone, and he might think you are watching that same something or someone, and in reality, neither one of you is focused on that person or thing. It is human nature and assuming things that get cops killed. It is impossible to watch the actions of several people, 100 % of the time, by yourself. Coupled with the fact that most human beings have 2 hands, those are not the odds you want in any situation. Stay safe out there.
Don't chase or you will be toast.
what may have happened had the officers chased him?
they may have been killed in a gunfight or innocents killed in a car wreck
No one knows, not even you SCC
Riddle me this oh wise one.
How do you propose to stop an automobile using another sutombile
SAFELY???
Sorry my friend but the dangers associated with chases outweigh the benefits
I bet ya dont comment on this one
(bad spelling,syntax, and grammar aside)
im sure everyone has seen at least once on tv the "pit" manuever done by other police departments who realizes that criminals that flee pose a risk to society. If the courts would be willing to hold criminals liable for their actions, there wouldn't be as much abuse where the criminals have more rights than their victims.
if the rural trooper had pitted the car in a ditch after calling in for backup (hopefully nearby) then he could have controlled the situation chosing where to stop the criminals. of course with today"s "pussy" legislators the state police and the trooper might have to fear litigation from the criminals (D.C. case notwithstanding)
so once again a criminal is not liable for his actions we are liable because we didnt do enough to prevent someone from being killed but if we had we'd be wrong anyone
people learn from experience and sooner or later the citizens of chicago will learn Mayor Daley doesnt care about your safety : manpower 68% of authorized strength; vehicles/equipment that don't work (no computer but hey soon to get cameras); and federal money that could be used on necessary equipment or manpower instead of TARA programs used to pay overtime in districts that are low because of depletion to specialized units.
I envision a day when sgts are calling off FOOT chases.
listen to the radio on the west side when the bosses arent listening they do
This is why all cars need cameras. Video the car, lic #, that's all you need..f*ck the chase.. Later, go get it towed and impounded. Let a##hole reclaim his ride at court. If the dept and city played this right, it could be a cash cow for little dickie
sure
has anyone ever heard of a vehicle actually being impounded from a chase???
Actually impounded not the paperwork being submitted but actually towed to the lot
whoever typed this probably hasnt worked the south/west side
"hey buddy whose plates are those? they come back to a ford not a pontiac"
"Well you know when i bought the car they came with it"
"my friend let me borrow them til i could afford to get my own plates"
"sorry dont speak english" (before the race baiters say a word-- i recently pulled over a couple who only spoke italian--or so they claimed)
<< Home