An Interesting Proposal
Why not adapt the Fire Department solution to the Police Department? From our e-mail:
- Hey SCC...I have a contract question. I've scanned the FOP website and looked at the contract, but don't see a "minimum manning clause" anywhere in there. Maybe I missed it, but this could resolve safety issues in Districts. On the Fire Dept. we have that which makes a lot of overtime. Maybe minimum manning by each District in the contract? Example..1st District 1st Watch, 2nd Watch, 3rd Watch.. shall have a minimum of xxxx officers...2nd District 1st watch...etc. Create overtime lists, make a lot of money...etc.. Just an idea from an outsider...
He further explains:
- On CFD, the city or "employer" can have up to 30 Variances, which could be acting or manning. 4 man companies would be a Manning variance, while a firefighter "acting" as an officer is an Acting Variance. This also includes EMS. Once the 30 are used, the city must then re-hire. I could see this in CPD and would be one hell of a victory for FOP. Allow the city a "maximum number" of 1 person units, then they have to "re-hire" by a list to man the cars. Safety in numbers. Side jobs??? Wait for the OT...!
Opportunities to work days off for OT, better staffing on the watches, what's not to like? It could be adapted on a District-by-District basis so you're working the streets you know and if further refined, could even be shift specific.
Has this even been looked at? Feel free to discuss.
Has this even been looked at? Feel free to discuss.
Labels: open posts
posted by SCC at 12:04 AM
58 Comments:
Create overtime lists, make a lot of money...etc.. Just an idea from an outsider...
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REGULAR UN-CLOUTED COPS are not allowed to make alot of money.
That is for bosses, kid's of bosses, and old-tymers who's kids are out of school, houses are already paid off and Defrd Comp already maxed. e.g. The airport over time prog.....shhhhh no one knows it still is running....
The rest of you can eat sh!t.
Absolutely brilliant,CFD makes bukoo bucks on OT. This should be modeled upon the Milwaukee PD hireback program too.
Some Police Departments have a minimum, when they reach it no time off is granted to their Officers. And every year when we fail to hire that "Minimum" number goes up, GO FIGURE.
It used to be that on third watch and first watch, all the cars had to be 10-4 units. In order to put you on a 10-99 car, you had to volunteer and sign a waiver. I am almost positive that this was a contractual issue. It also use to be that even with this in effect, all the cars would still be manned along with freely given comp time. Until we either start getting rid of a lot of these useless units and get the department back up to it's budgeted strength, we will continue to see problems.
Yeah go ahead and bring that up and it will give them an excuse to deny more people time off for minimum manning, leave that crap to the fire dept. they have way less personnel to man than we do and can get away with that stuff.
Last thing I want to do on my day off is put on my costume.
They will never do it...Common sense goes against CPD policy.
who the hell wants to work on their days off. Fuck that. let alone after having worked 6 days strieght. worry about the number of days we have to work first then talk about working when we could be spending time with our families.
February 14th, 1980-Great idea but the Fire Department went on strike that day to win that requirement. Do you think we'd get more than 3,000 coppers to do the same?
No joke, it's a very good idea.
How come you're not a boss? Oh, the clout thing.
State Police used to have minimum staffing in Dist. Chgo too. It became a big game. For years they just lowered the minimum staffing to whatever they wanted. Look, now we're fully staffed! It was all predicated on how many troopers we had in the district. There was no hammer to force them to hireback. I'm gone now, but if I'm not mistaken they now hireback.
TOLD FOP ABOUT THIS BACK IN 2005!!!!
Working in the trades, the steward on every job(on larger jobs assigned by the union) who maintains an overtime list. If you cannot work on the day your name comes up it goes to the next person. You don't have to work the overtime. You just work to the bottom and start at the top again. If after your sixth day you don't want to work let the next guy.
The shitty will find a way where only the "chosen ones" will make the OT
Just like when we had TARA buy back program a few years ago! It was awesome to make money at time and a half.
I'll bet that is cheaper to do than hire new green recruits which takes years to develop into good Officers!
FOP should push this issue!
I can't believe how ungreatful all you people are. Weis got us new cruisers that go really fast and you're still not happy.
2 BAD THE FIRE DEPARTMENT ONLY HIRE ONCE EVERY 8 YEARS!
IT A NEAT IDEA ID EVEN GO WITH A COMP TIME ONLY OPTION FOR THE OT.
Holy Bravo Again SCC Batman!!!
Me too Clause all the way!!!
Be very careful with "minimum manning" standards. It's a double edged sword.
It will definitely affect your time off requests.
We have a "unofficial" minimum here in a neighboring scumburb, and all it does is ruin morale & force guys to call in sick for a needed day off......
We don't hire back or put out OT to cover vacations etc....... Too poor I guess....... But we have lovely landscaping......
It's a great idea and it is needed. But it will never ever happen. Why would the city put manning quotas out there? Won't happen. No way, no sense dreaming about it on this blog. Your time is better spent looking at some hot Asian porn.
It's a great idea, as long as we can't be denied time off because of man power issues. My previous department did this, but once again, only one person per shift was allowed comp time per night (54 Officers on dept.) If they start denying time, and are calling people back to work, most likely be reverse seniority, people are going to be working a lot of days without a day off.
cfd 4got 2 tell u that this has also caused problems. a capt. can't release some1 in an emergency due to that clause in the contract. they also 4get that they really struck to help the king in the long run, and F*&K the only mayor, Jane Byrne that took care of the CPD.
REGULAR UN-CLOUTED COPS are not allowed to make alot of money.
That is for bosses, kid's of bosses, and old-tymers who's kids are out of school, houses are already paid off and Defrd Comp already maxed. e.g. The airport over time prog.....shhhhh no one knows it still is running....
The rest of you can eat sh!t.
8/22/2008 12:20:00 AM
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You sir, can eat shit!! Don't make blanket assumptions over people with seniority. There are many individual stories here and we all have problems.
I am an old timer and (sometimes) I get 1 or 2 days a month at the airport. It isn't because I like to jerk over the new kids. I need the money just like you do.
My deferred lost close to 25% of it's value over the past two years. My taxes are up 100% in the last 5 years. A decent new car is well over 20K (translates to a $500 payment) The one I drive now is 9 years old and has over 100,000 miles. My wife's van has 90,000 miles.
Our familiy makes too much money (so says the financial aid office) for my two kids in college to get aid. My wife's total take home pay goes just to pay tuition, fees, books and room and board.
Like you, I haven't had a raise in years and it looks like we won't be seeing one for a while and the one we'll see won't be for shit.
I am a no clout person. I'm just a 24 year PO who works a beat car. I don't have a phone call and I just put my request in to work the airport on CLEAR, just like you are supposed to.
I'll keep working the airport as long it comes. At least you have to the ability to earn extra money elsewhere, we didn't have OT Special when I came on. It was straight time walking piss filled subways or shit filled hallways at Cabrini or Taylor. I did many RDOs in the 'jets so my kids could go to private school.
Even working for straight time, where will you find a part time job paying in the $30 an hour range?
Put in your time working CTA or CHA, your time for the airport will come. Meanwhile, don't begrudge old timers, you may not know the situation.
its no wonder this city has no money... you hose jockeys are taking it all.. bastards
if and when the FSLA ruling is applied it will be useless without a requirement for "manning" similar to the fire dept.
if the department is unable to deny comp time off thry will have to bring back pos regardless of the cost. without a reguired amount of beat cars thry will continue to run short just like they are now there will be no call back
on another note
i am requesting the endorsement of SCC as i am a candidate for the upcoming pension representative vs robbins and caparelli
i am prepared to debate any and all on the requirements of this position
scc please respond
wharej603
Think you have trouble getting time due now? Put this plan in and you will NEVER get time due!!
This is shitcago if we asked for a minimum number per watch they would just refuse time due.
fireman stick together and win. we slam our own union when the city fucks with them.
In order to put you on a 10-99 car, you had to volunteer and sign a waiver. I am almost positive that this was a contractual issue.
8/22/2008 12:35:00 AM
I've been on this job over 25 years and you be smokin dat caine! Where did you hear that fantasy?
Anyone on the outside listen,YOU ARE NOT SAFE.We DO NOT HAVE SUFFICIENT MANPOWER.Could someone please let the media start going going thru our sheets and explain ALL THE GHOST FOOT POSTS,look at our district rosters and look at the ghosts assigned to CAPS/COMMUNITY POLICING/D.O.C. offices,these people do no police work yet out number people on the street 10-1.On days when there are 5 people in SENIOR CITIZENS(another ghost spot) and 7 actual bodies on the street IT IS A PROBLEM.Why don't inspectors actually inspect?Hit a district and make all bodies assigned that day respond WHERE THEY ARE,WHAT THEY DO.People, we are one botched holdup away from losing a lot of good policemen.
Last thing I want to do on my day off is put on my costume.
But then how will you land the role of “Frightened Inmate #2 of The West Side" ?!
Maybe Carl Weathers, star of 1988’s Action Jackson, will take you under his tutelage and you too, sir will become an actor!
It used to be that on third watch and first watch, all the cars had to be 10-4 units. In order to put you on a 10-99 car, you had to volunteer and sign a waiver. I am almost positive that this was a contractual issue. It also use to be that even with this in effect, all the cars would still be manned along with freely given comp time. Until we either start getting rid of a lot of these useless units and get the department back up to it's budgeted strength, we will continue to see problems.
8/22/2008 12:35:00 AM
true, but when I got separated from my partner involuntarily and I got hurt, when I called the union to file a grievance Bella told me personally they have a hand shake agreement with the city NOT to grieve 99 units because if the union did start grieving these, then the city would implement a minimum manpower for each and every watch and time due would start being denied at a very high rate... unreal
Hey everyone just wanted to give you an idea of what "Minimum Staffing" is all about from an out of town copper. The city will do one of a couple things:1st, if they ever gave it to you, then the city would be denying time due left and right, stating it's a staffing issue. 2nd,every contract they would raise the "Minimum Staffing" causing more time due issues. 3rd and probably most important, the city isn't going to pay anyone overtime, period!!!! Because when a district is over the "Minimum Staffing" levels, then the cities gonna ship it's extra car(s) to a different district to save money. "Minimum Staffing" sounds great, but watch what you wish for because the fuckin' city will deny all your time due requests to insure all it's districts meet the "Minimum Staffing" requirements without ponying up the dough for O.T. GOOD LUCK GUYS AND BE SAFE!!!!
This could be funded with the money from:
Budgeted money from positions that would be paid to retirees, ie: I reture in Jan and the positions if budgeted til end of Dec. This includes salary and benifits.
Any other money of the same circumstances and there is millions. Now this money goes into the Mayor's General Fund. Where does it go from there? It's CPD money and should stay as such not be doled out to friends of city hall for worthless over paid contracts.
Follow he money.
Anonymous said...
Some Police Departments have a minimum, when they reach it no time off is granted to their Officers. And every year when we fail to hire that "Minimum" number goes up, GO FIGURE.
8/22/2008 12:24:00 AM
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EXACTLY WHAT WOULD HAPPEN. NO OR LESS TIME DUE BECAUSE THEY WILL NEED TO MEET THE SET MINIMUM. IT WILL BACKFIRE LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE.
If 3000 coppers did strike, at thi s point it would shut down most districts. The city has us running skinny all day, if 300 didnt show up it would hurt
forget the cpd,all the young guys hsould go to the burbs and enjoy life,pick dupage you will be happy.
I can't believe how ungreatful all you people are. Weis got us new cruisers that go really fast and you're still not happy.
8/22/2008 07:18:00 AM
What is a cruiser? You must not be CPD. Come to think of it,what new cars? I havnt seen any.
why would the city give in to this? i've seen a beat car double as the wagon. desk personnel are on the sheets as working a beat car ,but are actually on the desk. wake up!! the city doesn't care about you or manpower issues. how quickly we forget the circumstances surrounding officer francis' death--10-99 unit, manpower shortage in 019, so it can happen anywhere.
i will be the first to say 3rd and 1st watch need to be 10-4. but 2nd watch in the shit districts...brutal. i go on man with a gun call 99, domestics 99, battery IP 99, etc. backlog at 9am. we ALL need to be 10-4. then on 2nd watch they took every PPO, all that is ever 10-4 is the wagon. im just venting. i know that we will never get the manpower we need.
Joe Keating "An Interesting Proposal"!
You sir, can eat shit!! Don't make blanket assumptions over people with seniority. There are many individual stories here and we all have problems.
...
Our familiy makes too much money (so says the financial aid office) for my two kids in college to get aid. My wife's total take home pay goes just to pay tuition, fees, books and room and board.
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college? COLLEGE?? You must be rich.
As things are going, by the time my kids will get to **1st grade**, it will cost more than the catholic h.s. i went to!
And for private h.s., I'll have to get student loans for that.
College, indeed. You don't know how good you have it.
I would work one of my days off. Some of us don't mind a little extra spending $.
The only option I have for OT right now is standing @ 1150 Larabee building on midnights once a month. I'd rather work a day off.
THIS JOB IS NOT FOR THE HONEST WORKING COPPER IT IS FOR THE CLOUT HEAVY AND THE SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF THE CLOUT HEAVY> So I SAY Fuck this place. I will do as little as possible. It is my payback. I do as little as possible and max out my defrd comp. I cant wait until the crime hits the rich and clout heavy. Then I will laugh and laugh hard.
Years ago when the newspapers ran some expose on beats not being fully manned the City redrew all the beats, making fewer but larger beats. Then they announced that all beats are manned all the time. Primary beats. The rapid cars of years gone by, the strat cars or power cars, were often put down but there was no requirement to man those all the time, only primary beat cars.
Same thing will happen with manning requirements. Who do you think will get to make the numbers? patrolmen? FOP? Hah! The same City that has been fucking us in the ass will continue to fuck us, only in a different way and using different lube. Results will be the same, a fuck job.
Hey, the Shakman decree outlawed political hiring over 30 years ago. How did that one work out?
I rest my case.
Sure would like to know that the Department did with the TARA money.
Shouldnt the Federal Goverment expect and accounting of the money it gave to the CPD?
9:49 is wrong. CFD is again fighting to keep the manning that their past presidents gave away for favors granted. And No Captain or officer will ever deny a personal problem. 9:49s wife must have run away with a firefighter.
i am requesting the endorsement of SCC as i am a candidate for the upcoming pension representative vs robbins and caparelli.
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Good luck Wayne, You are the only one who will & can stand up for us.
Most of us have had it with the FOP and the pension board rep'.
When is the election Wayne ?
Just to expand on the idea a bit. Create re-hire lists by Areas and Day-Off groups. This would evenly distribute the overtime to everyone. If an officer notifies the Watch Commander he/she is on the Medical (Don't loose this privilege!), the Watch Commander shall immediately notify the Area X manpower person of a "variance". If it's determined that this "variance" would result in a "manpower shortage" in District X, the Area X manpower person shall immediately begin the re-hire process. If an officer does not answer the phone, the officer will not loose their place on the re-hire list. However if an officer turns down a overtime assignment, the officer shall be placed at the bottom of the overtime list. Until they find someone to fill the "variance" the officer with the highest seniority on the current watch, shall have the option to "hold over" a maximum of 4 hours until such vacancy is filled. If senior officer on watch refuses "hold over" it shall continue until lease senior officer on current watch is reached. In other words, NO ONE has to work the OT unless they want it. Safety is paramount here for the FOP, the citizens think they're getting more officers, the officers are getting overtime if they want it..it's a win-win.
thank you
i still have not heard from SCC about their extremely valuable and objective endorsement.
the election will be by mail and the count will be announced on 23 sept 2008
i need 50 police officers, detectives and any job title below the rank of sgt. to sign my petitions i intend to present as many as possible because of the potential for challenge.
wharej603
scc please respond
wharej603
8/22/2008 10:15:00 AM
I'll respond.
Go away. Forever.
i am requesting the endorsement of SCC as i am a candidate for the upcoming pension representative vs robbins and caparelli.
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Both Craparelli and Robbins are flaming retards, but I choose Retard Robbins. Here's why. Crapperelli would never go to work/do a damn thing and Wayne is a fat disgrace bummy looking freak. Talk about the lesser of 3 evils.
To 8/22/2008 02:50:00 AM,
Who wants to work their days-off? Obviously not a loser like you. Doctors and nurses do it. Lawyers do it. Tradesmen do it. Kids working a counter in retail do it. Anyone who wants to earn more, to have more, does it. Rather than steal as his 015th District counterparts did during the Thanasaurus period my father finally got out of the hole, financially, when he worked special employment back in the Seventies. He did it and he wasn't too proud to let his white shirt stand in his way to do so. And Jim Thompson didn't have any bar owners ever claimed they put five cents into my fathers hand as he did with so many others who augmented their salaries through extortion.
Obviously you're an old timer hired without the benefit higher education, or common sense, or a work ethic. It's called supply and demand. I'll work it. And the kids will go to Catholic schools, see Disneyworld, hike on St. John, and have a life that my salary, bumped slightly higer by working a day-off can provide. So get your children dressed for school Monday at Ebinger, Oriole Park, or Farnsworth. Go back to your trailer, fire up a Miller Lite and enjoy the spoiled fruits of your labor. You reap what you sow.
i need 50 police officers, detectives and any job title below the rank of sgt. to sign my petitions i intend to present as many as possible because of the potential for challenge.
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Wayne:
You got a lot friends in the "D" unit you even do not know you have.
You got a royal ram by the FLOP. Stay strong brother.
ED/606
You got a lot friends in the "D" unit you even do not know you have.
You got a royal ram by the FLOP. Stay strong brother.
ED/606
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Really? This is the same Wayne Harej that derided the D2a proposal by declaring at a meeting, "When was the last time a detective died in the line of duty?"
And you think he's our friend? He's a C-5 rat bastard that fucked over the working police, pissed on the graves of dozens of dead detectives and got convicted in a hearing of violating 10 different charges and lost his appeal to the national lodge. Fuck Harej and fuck you ED
Really? This is the same Wayne Harej that derided the D2a proposal by declaring at a meeting, "When was the last time a detective died in the line of duty?"
And you think he's our friend? He's a C-5 rat bastard that fucked over the working police, pissed on the graves of dozens of dead detectives and got convicted in a hearing of violating 10 different charges and lost his appeal to the national lodge. Fuck Harej and fuck you ED
8/24/2008 05:07:00 PM
do you have the balls to do it in person
any time any place
well do you punk?
you must be one of the crooked cops you are so worried about
wharej603
do you have the balls to do it in person
any time any place
well do you punk?
you must be one of the crooked cops you are so worried about
wharej603
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Thanks for not denying what you said about our deceased Detectives or i'd have to kick your ass just based on that denial. I'm tired Wayne, tired of your two bit bullshit. I've been watching it for years and I've come to this conclusion. For all your girth Wayne, you're a tiny tiny man. Instead of doing what's right, you've always been about Wayne. Did you ever feel the tiniest twinge of shame when you accepted the Detective's star after what you said about Line of Duty dicks, or when they threw you out, did you ever stop to think of all the FOP members you were fucking by releasing all that info to the media, or the damage you could have done and did by giving the City inside info? No, you probably didn't. It was always about Wayne and getting Wayne elected and getting Wayne in on what he could pretend meant something for a life wasted. You're a user Wayne, you hide behind bluster and bullshit and in a stand up fight, you'd have a grabber by Round 2. I'll just continue to observe you and laugh and talk shit about you, now and after you lose your appeal and your elections and watch your bitterness eat you alive. You could have been a contender but the ego was too big and you have to hide behind accusations of "you must be a dirty cop." I sleep just fine at night Wayne, where you just imagine wrongs by people who are better at their jobs than you could be. See you at work tomorrow.
You guys should have sex already! You know you both want each other, just do it already.....damn.......
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