Wednesday, July 22, 2009

More Car Whining

The bile continues to pour in from 35th Street and the number of IP addresses from Homan Square is staggering! Someone must have taken the filters off for the day so everyone with a take home car could come here and attack us.

Unfortunately, we don't publish ad hominem attacks on ourselves and the Department at large. You want to justify a take home car, fine, justify it. But don't call everyone else a "bitch" or a "whiner" or attack us. These are tough times - the mayor said so - we happen to agree. Therefore, we should join in the belt tightening and cut out the nonsense spending. Didn't the Department just lay off a boatload of civilians? Take home cars for non-first-responding personnel should be cut number one.

And we've seen the comments saying the BMW over at Asset Forfeiture was a seizure and didn't cost taxpayers a dime. We beg to differ:
  • Who's filling the car with gas? Taxpayers;
  • Who's insuring the car? Taxpayers;
  • When it gets a flat or needs maintenance, does Fleet have BMW parts, tires and qualified BMW mechanics? Guess we have to farm that one out at (you guessed it) taxpayer expense;
  • Asset Forfeiture didn't seize any beaters? A few nice fuel efficient Toyotas or Hondas? Sure they did. But that isn't good enough for the mucky-mucks over at there. They have to drive a Beemer because... because... because why exactly? To show off? To be arrogant? Because they can?
If it's an asset, sell it at auction and fund Department programs instead of filling it with taxpayer funded gas and driving value off the Blue Book price. Someone said "The seized auto has to be used in narcotics for a year before it can be sold. So much for the expensive MB. Many of high line cars sit in the garage for a year until they can be sold. State requirements." Then garage it in one of Vanecko's warehouses. Or use it for buy/busts if the payoff is greater than the resale value of the car. What value is gained by stroking egos? That goes for the expensive SUV's and other luxury sedans seized.

And to the person multiple posting from the same IP address about how this is a Daley plot to divide and conquer the Department to the detriment of the contract, it isn't the use of take-home cars that's dividing the Department - it's the fact that Daley is going to fuck each and every one of us by pleading "poor" in the media while tacitly allowing millions of dollars, maybe tens of millions, to be pissed away giving two hundred or more unnecessary take home cars to people who have no discernible use for them.

Labels:

88 Comments:

Blogger Henry Bowman said...

Bravo SCC.......


Couldn't have said it better.......


God Save the CPD....



Stay Safe ALL......






Retirement is the GOAL.....

7/22/2009 12:17:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, to all the posters who said, "if you had a chance to have a take home car you would jump at the chance."

You frickin idiots! You are missing the whole point. If the cars are necessary and can be justified, sure have them. However, they are treated as an entitlement by those who do have them, even a type of status symbol.

Maybe I should take my squad home, just in case I get an emergency call that activates me while I am off duty?

The fucking car is not an entitlement and it is not suppose to be used for the variety of personal errants and convenience that it currently is used for.

7/22/2009 12:29:00 AM  
Blogger TWENTY and OUT said...

SOME TROLL

Our illustrious HBT Team is now getting take home cars. 18 have been put aside for them to be picked up next week. When is enough enough.

To the person that posted this and the people that posted in the original thread that bashed the SWAT team....Thanks.

I really don't know if you are just looking to get a rise out of a few people or if you are genuinely that ignorant.

HBT was dissolved over three years ago. It's now called SWAT. At the time the city had an HBT team there were roughly 100 people on the team. Yes you are 100% correct, the HBT team was made up of people solely from SOS and 90% of the SOS people had some kind of phone call. When HBT was being changed to SWAT the guys from HBT were given the first shot to fill the 60 spots SWAT was budgeted for. EVERYONE that wanted to stay had to pass the shooting and PT test 4x's per year. Since then SWAT has become a unit ANY OFFICER in the city can try out for. Ask ANY of the 300+ that tried out if they feel the process was legit or not. I can guarantee there is not a more legit unit in the city. Currently we have to pass the shoot and PT 2x's per year. The PT standards and shooting standards are the same for everyone regardless of age, sex, or race. Also the shooting qual has gotten TOUGHER and has gone from 80% to 90% to pass. So to the stroke that wants to say SWAT is a clout spot GFY.

If you really think there is not a need for the SWAT team to have a take home car then you may as well not read this.... you're pretty clueless. Of all the people who have take home vehicles I doubt there are many that can justify the need for them more than the SWAT team. Do you know why it takes us so long to respond to the SWAT jobs....CUZ WE ARE RESPONDING FROM OUR HOMES IN PERSONAL CARS!!! I would love to be there for my fellow officer as fast as possible. You think it's frustrating going to a job in your district with lights and sirens on and nobody moving out of the way, try doing it in your friggin toyota or ford,or chevy, or whatever across the city.... And the best is when we finally get there and we get yelled at when we are trying to get into the scene. Or better yet when it's in a shit neighborhood and "joe" is filming you getting out of your personal car and has your plate and watches as you take all the gear out of your trunk. Yes, I know I chose to do this but I do it because I want to help out other officers. I'm not better than any other guy wearing a blue shirt. Are their a couple guys out of the 60 that are a little arrogant? Maybe. But I'm sure there are a few on your watch too. And arrogant or not they would do anything to help out any officer in trouble.
The bottom line is if you name 10 units that have take home vehicles I'm sure we could prove a better need for them in 8 out of the 10 times.
So to the troll(s) that posted that crap.....KMA
To all the other P.O's....stay safe!!

7/22/2009 12:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whether the pols and exempts agree with it or not, whether it is true or not, patrol always get the short end of the stick. The patrolman is the one who always gets fucked because he is on the bottom of the food chain.

Well, there are more of us bottom dwellers than anyone else and like so many other grunts, I am tired or being treated with a double standard, or in a condescending fashion by a boss.

I will bet the house on this that if the politicians and the bosses of this department took seriously the morale problem and inititated direct, concrete, rewarding and sincere corrective behaviors where the patrolman is not treat as a grunt, then things would improve. But there is not a fat chance in hell that the leadership of the department will change. The king does not have the balls to allow it to happen and the meritorious exempts are afraid of losing their perks and positions. So, great leaders of the city and CPD, watch the continued spiralling downward response of what once used to be a police department filled with good, but tough street cops.

You are getting exactly the type of police department you wanted.

7/22/2009 12:42:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

when the Asset Forfeiture cars break down or need maintaince, they are then auctioned off, not fixed on the citys dollar.

7/22/2009 12:47:00 AM  
Blogger hiflyer767 said...

The difference between a BMW and a Porcupine?
A Porcupine has its pricks on the outside...

7/22/2009 12:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Every member with a take home car should have to document each month the amount of times those vehicles were used to respond to emergency situations while off duty. Each member should clearly define why they needed that car at home and couldn't drive to their place of work and pick up a city vehicle like every other "working police officer" does. I am a taxpayer, and I want to know why administrative personnel need take home cars. Why does merit Lt. MS in Asset Forfeiture need a take home BMW? Why can't Homan Square personnel drive their own cars to work and pick up their city vehicles there? Every taxpayer should demand answers. Mayor Daley, you're crying poor, stop this abuse of city vehicles.

7/22/2009 01:13:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Detective commanders and violent crimes lieutenants respond to every police shooting and many homicides. They deserve the take home cars. Most property and youth lieutenants are NEVER, NEVER, EVER called out from home. Heck, we don't even need youth lieutenants any more. (I know it's RBT & SVU). Their take home cars are mostly used for lunch dates, shopping and transporting their kids to school. What a joke!!!!!

7/22/2009 01:51:00 AM  
Anonymous G-man said...

Why don't these take home cars have M Plates?

7/22/2009 01:53:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

you hit the nail on the head scc

7/22/2009 02:01:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the only officers i think that should have a take home car are they k9 officers

7/22/2009 02:05:00 AM  
Anonymous Westside, Inside Do-Nothing said...

SCC said..."Didn't the Department just lay off a boatload of civilians?"

**********************************

I'm totally diggin' how you work endless derivations of "boat"-themed references into the threads. I'm just wondering how many of the simpletons are getting it.

And before it slips my mind...fuck all you crybaby pussies at HEADquarters and Homan Square on the brink of losing your precious take-home cars. And for those chosen few that may actually get to keep their taxpayer-funded vehicles - I hope you get caught-up by Zeckman or one of her slime ball counterparts running personal errands in the department vehicle. Better yet, I hope you get in a fender-bender driving when/where your not supposed to.

7/22/2009 02:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Show me the state law that says a seized vehicle has to sit for a year before it can be sold.

I call bullsh!t on that.

7/22/2009 03:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What about those high end vehicles that are seized such as a 55 Caddy or a 67 Mustang.

Are these Asset Forfeiture folks trying to say that they are out there using these types of vehicles after they have been seized? NO

Once the seizure order is written the entity that the vehicle is ordered to can do as it pleases with said vehicle = sell at auction.

7/22/2009 03:47:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

One of the other posters said it best: Do away with ALL take-home cars as a rule. I've been the po-leese for 31 years and I can't ever remember anyone except the DC pulling up while off-duty to respond to a heater case. But I completely understand that there are times when someone NEEDS a car to respond 24/7. If someone believes they need a car, simply apply for one. POST the list of these guys so when you see the car with the M-plates at the Zoo, Great America or on Weed Street, we'll know who's BSing whom.

To say that SWAT operators don't already have take-home cars shows how backwards this joke of a department is (2nd largest police department in the country and we don't have an Auto Theft Unit for god’s sake).

I also understand that rank has its privileges. The Superintendent is the CEO and big magoo of the dept and gets WHATEVER (Crown Vic, Suburban, Hummer, Sherman Tank) and WHOMEVER (driver, bodyguard, hottie secretary, personal trainer) he wants. Ted O'Keefe? Enjoy the #66 Archer Avenue Express bus or whichever CTA line you'll take to work. JJ and Bea? SAME THING....they get a car. Commander of Property Management? Take your daily driver or your PF Flyers.

Entitlement, merit, cronyism and pay-to-play are what have ruined this department. Take-home cars for the "chosen", while SWAT guys or other critical operational members or supervisors use their own cars and gas, should be abolished right away.

7/22/2009 04:27:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks! I couldn't have said it any better!

7/22/2009 05:59:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

(OT) I am not a cop but have police in the family and appreciate everything the men and women do for the tax payer. I flew out of midway, few days ago and came back in last night,and 2 cars near my car was a nice dark blue "Police Interceptor" type car, in the parking lot. with a plate of M138886 and I looked at it and noticed a Chicago municipal sticker,and in the windshield a car tag 10G on the dash. If your so short cars how could someone be so arrogant to leave this car parked for days? This would be a nice car for officers to drive. Who is in charge of this? God bless all of you officers.

7/22/2009 06:01:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All seized cars go through fleet, they make the decision whether to keep it or not. As i have stated before, the seized vehicle must be kept by the city for one year before it can be sold.

So instead of using it, probably should be stored in a city auto pound?

7/22/2009 06:41:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And you're forgetting, they have to deal with the pimp oil smell in those luxury cars! You know how that can take away from the ride. I mean, c'mon!

7/22/2009 07:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think shortshanks and the people crying about getting their take home cars away should take a lesson in leadership from Michael Bloomberg, Mayor of New York City. The guy is worth 16 Billion, not million dollars and this guy takes the number 4 train to city hall a couple of days a week depending on his schedule. Shit, this guy is worth enough money that he could take a friggin helicopter to work, but he chooses to ride the subway with the people he serves. When is the last time you saw Richie Rich ever ride the EL? That is way beneath him and a majority of the people here.

7/22/2009 07:09:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"If it's an asset, sell it at auction and fund Department programs instead of filling it with taxpayer funded gas and driving value off the Blue Book price."

Private insurance companies would not insure such high end vehicles that have been seized and for use in law enforcement operations. So tax payers have to pay for liability when those vehicles are involved in accidents, with the possibility of large losses when claimant lawyers discover that the vehicle that hit them was actually owned and operated by the city of Chicago.

7/22/2009 07:23:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Take home BMW WTF!! I know the feeling, I have been at the pumps on many occasions and have seen people from Narcotics and other units,looking like they came from a Miami Vice episode or something pumping gas into a mustang,cadi,or something smilar and just smirk at me pumping gas into my 100k piece of crap. Then they turn up the radio put on their sunglasses and drive away. Great for morale

7/22/2009 07:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Every take home vehicle should bear a M-plate.

We also should be able to find out how many red light camera violations are non-suited on take home vehicles. I would not doubt that there are many red light camera violations on off duty hours and weekends relating to take home vehicles.

7/22/2009 07:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow all this love for the prople with take home cars. If I only had a phone call or a daddy with some clout, or I was a hot blonde. Oh well I am none of these so I guess I will just get in my cruiser and burn up some gas and do nothing. Let those super hero's do the work. You don't expect anything from me anyway because I am not one of the chosen ones now am I.

7/22/2009 07:30:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Get in the boat and shut the fuck up.........BECAUSE I SAID SO!!!!!

7/22/2009 07:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SCC, I work in Narcotics and have a take home car. I for one don't need a take home car. I do love having it. I don't abuse the gift given to me. I couldn't tell you how many abuse the gift.

I for the most part make buys in Narcotics and am considered a UCO (under cover officer). The fact that I'm a UCO doesn't make me better than anybody else. In my opinion I have the most dangerous job in the CPD. The risks I take and the danger I surround myself with I volunteered for. I would take a stack of take home cars away. Lets make a list of who doesn't need them.

1. Asset forfeiture - doesn't need or deserve cars. The truth is they are very rarely called out. I have heard rumors of a 3rd watch for Asset to eliminate OT.
2. Tact Lts - Why do they get a car???? Lts are no longer required to go on search warrants. Take the cars away.
3. Gang Lts - See tact lts.

I'll cut it at that but anybody below the rank of Commander should not have a take home car in these times. Should things get better I would give the cars back to Narcotics but not many others. Civilians should never have a take home car.

I would be upset if I lost my take home car but it wouldn't be the end of the world. I would be mad if I lost my car and some house mouse keep theirs. That would piss me off!!!!

7/22/2009 08:00:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Alot of units seize vehicles and cash, but it does not mean it all gets forfeited. AFU follows the lengthy process and works with states attorneys assigned to AF. There are laws, and sometimes the elements of the report or crime does not fit the burden of proof upon the state.

If a seized asset does get forfeited, and it is gets turned into cash, depending on the circumstances of the seizure, it gets deposited into one of many department funds. There are specifics as to how each fund can be spent within the department.
If a seized asset cannot be forfeited, it goes back to the bad guy.

Cline stretched the truth and spent more 1505 funds throughout the department than any superintendent. As a major city, we do not seize nor forfeit anywhere as much money as others. Alot has to do with our poorly written or unwritten laws, not to mention the sad state of affairs we are in today with no leadership and no morale.

Granted there are plenty of persons with take home cars that are unwarranted. Most persons with uc cars leave their house at any hour of the day or night, including days off, to run out and follow the bad guy. The bad guy has no schedule, you go when they go. If those persons had to go into the office first and get the keys and transfer their equipment from one car to another, and do the same at the end of their tour - they'd never catch a bad guy or build a case. Not to mention the waste of time and the extra overtime it would cause.

Feds don't seize vehicles like they used to, because its too costly to store the vehicle until the case is adjudicated. If they do seize with intent to forfeit, the value of the vehicle must be over 10G and paid for. That is an example of a similarity the state has, sometimes it is not cost effective to keep, or sell the asset, depending on the circumstances.

And the department does not keep all the money acquired from selling vehicles at auctions, there are alot of other people involved who get a piece of the pie. These aren't big money auctioneers, its no where near as much as you think.

Right or wrong, lay off the commanding officer, did you ever see what the hell the ocd commanders and deputy chief are driving? Take a look at row one in the lot...puhleeze...the beemer aint nothing.

7/22/2009 08:10:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh, that is such b.s. about discussion dividing troops. I don't know the exact quote, but Thomas Jefferson said that debate and division make a stronger government - airing it out, discussing, and making it right. Arguing is healthy when done intelligently - NOT DIVISIVE!

7/22/2009 08:41:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The take home cars are a disgusting waste of tax payer dollars as well as the drivers for the commissioners. Get rid of all of these special programs! They are a waste of our money. It is not an earned program. I cannot tell you how often I see them on the Edens north of the city or the Kennedy---not even close to the city. It is repulsive. Everyone who has one thinks they are special. It's my money and I don't want to spend it on perks for people who presume they are special.

7/22/2009 08:43:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"They have to drive a Beemer because... because... because why exactly? To show off? To be arrogant? Because they can?"

No. As a big FU to the dope dealers.

7/22/2009 08:49:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Special Special

7/22/2009 08:53:00 AM  
Anonymous tom paine said...

SCC, working copper agress with you wholeheartedly. even "buy officers" have been known to use their take home car for shopping, traveling, off-duty personal use, etc. some got caught running the red light camera in the take home car off duty and had the nerve to ask for the ticket to be "taken care of."

other officers get a take home squad car. why can't they just drive to work in their own car like the rest of us?

regarding bosses, why is it that the more money you get paid on this job, the less of your own money you have to use to get to work?

we are here to serve the public, not have the public serve us.

7/22/2009 09:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

city treasurer has a nice crown vic (2nd car)that's pretty dusty from sitting in a parking lot at lake and franklin for a pretty long time

7/22/2009 09:49:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Back in the early 80's my unit got ahold of a Caddy. We did all the paperwork and had it assigned to us for use on the job. Next time I was at 51st St they had a duplicate siezed Caddy there to use as a parts car for ours.

7/22/2009 11:23:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The bottom line is if you name 10 units that have take home vehicles I'm sure we could prove a better need for them in 8 out of the 10 times.
So to the troll(s) that posted that crap.....KMA
To all the other P.O's....stay safe!!

7/22/2009 12:32:00 AM

Amen...Everything he said is legit. The SWAT tryouts are legit. I know, I tried, I didn't make it but I was able to see the people who did better than me upfront and in person. If you're numbers weren't in the top percentile you didn't make it. Plain and simple. No phone calls, no "clout," etc... They shot better, and were in better shape so they made it and I didn't. Can't get much fairer than that. I'm not complaining. And I do believe that they need take home cars. If you live far south and you are called in for an incident that is on the southside you can either drive your personal vehicle to the scene and leave it sitting on....let's say 65th and Hermitage, for who knows how long unattended. Or....you can drive from the southside all the way to Homan Square get a car and then drive all the way back south to the scene of the incident. This is exactly the complaint of many posters on this blog of "the SWAT team takes over an hour to get on scene." I think they are one of the few units that should have a car. I know I'd want them there as quick as possible if I was laying in a barricaded building bleeding to death. Think about it.

7/22/2009 11:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What's wrong with that tiny perk for the real police???

7/22/2009 11:40:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Someone should add up the tax dollars to be saved by having "M" plates on all cars except covert vehicles. M plates have a one time registration fee ( I believe it's $8)and the plates remain on the car as long as its useful life with the municipality. Regular vehicle license plates cost at least $86 per year and I think the state recently increased the fee.

7/22/2009 11:47:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Private insurance companies would not insure such high end vehicles that have been seized and for use in law enforcement operations."


You are a suburban troll-the city doesn't use an insurance company-it self insures dingbat!

7/22/2009 11:50:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
city treasurer has a nice crown vic (2nd car)that's pretty dusty from sitting in a parking lot at lake and franklin for a pretty long time

7/22/2009 09:49:00 AM

Why does she need a car? Why is her driver a lapa made guy? She has 5 drivers why? No one knows who she is or cares,another daley stooge!!

7/22/2009 11:54:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The gang Lt by us deserves the car, always there, helps everyone out. The Area CAPS Lt, thats another story.

7/22/2009 12:12:00 PM  
Anonymous SCC is right said...

G-man said...
Why don't these take home cars have M Plates?

7/22/2009 01:53:00 AM

***********************************Gotta agree. With the exception of active UCO, all vehicles, seized or city owned should have M plates and BIG adhesive stickers on the trunk and doors that say "Property of Chicago Police". Wouldn't this let the citizens see more cops on the street, unless they're afraid to be seen as cops.....

7/22/2009 12:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's not an order dumbass, it's state law. We dont have to either, it's just that if we sell it right away we have to split the money with the Cook County State's Attorney and the State Police. If we have it in use for at least a year for law enforcement purposes and then sell it, we get 100% profit. Now, do some research bitch!

7/22/2009 01:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Granted there are plenty of persons with take home cars that are unwarranted. Most persons with uc cars leave their house at any hour of the day or night, including days off, to run out and follow the bad guy. The bad guy has no schedule, you go when they go. If those persons had to go into the office first and get the keys and transfer their equipment from one car to another, and do the same at the end of their tour - they'd never catch a bad guy or build a case.

Then I guess the area dicks are TOTALLY AMAZING! They actually can go to the area, pick up a car and follow a bad guy. WOW, let's hear it for the area detectives!!!!!!!

The long range teams in Narcotics need cars, but not the administrative sergeants. Nor do the sergeants in ERPS, like the guy who got dumped out of Area 5 but is friends with Dean Andrews. Hey Dean, can I have a take home car if I get dumped? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

7/22/2009 01:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...

the only officers i think that should have a take home car are they k9 officers

7/22/2009 02:05:00 AM
K9 the most useless unit on the department. The only place we need dogs is for bomb sniffing, otherwise get rid of them. Drug dogs could not find dope in a fucking pharmacy. The dogs that do building searhes are useless as well.
Get rid of all K9 other then the bomb sniffing dogs, save the department millions.
Ask Bear, if you can find him.

7/22/2009 02:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Sole Determining Factor said...

Sole Determining Factor said...
Simple. Eliminate all take home cars. Those who feel that they deserve one for Department related emergency responses can request one citing their reasons and justifications. These will be reviewed on a case by case basis and decided by ME.

That's right! You heard me. I WILL DECIDE WHO GETS A CAR!


(((((((((((((((((((( * ))))))))))))))))))))


Hello again. You may remember me from yesterday's comments. I just wanted to update you on this whole take-home car thing.

Of the requests I've received, NONE had the sufficient amount of "documentation" to warrant a take-home car. I am waiting for additional envelopes before making the final determination as to their take-home car worthiness.

For those of you who thought I was KIDDING about this and failed to submit a request, you are hereby ORDERED to return your vehicle to your Area Motor Maintenance garage.

In exchange, you will receive a NEW "Mr. Microphone, Police Edition" complete with siren and flashing Blue Lights, (batteries not included, but that's what the uniform allowance is for).

7/22/2009 02:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Spent 11 years in chasing dope. I tried to be informative about the procedure that is used to seize cars.
fleet makes decision
have to wait a year before you sell it.
good beaters are used for buy/busts
all the high end and antique vehicles are sold after a year or so.

Seems like everyone here knows better.
No axe to grind, I am retired.
ISP writes some of the standards, given the mandate by the legislature. Just like on a Title III- many of the mandates are written by ISP

7/22/2009 02:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hell I've seen m plates everywhere Indiana casino, Woodfield Mall, Oakbrook mall , can't imagine what kinda cpd business going on in those places.

7/22/2009 03:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How about the Sheriff's dept? You have cars sitting in the courthouse parking lots that haven't been moved in 12-16 months! What the fuck?

7/22/2009 03:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"the only officers i think that should have a take home car are they k9 officers

7/22/2009 02:05:00 AM"



Yours Truly,

Bear

7/22/2009 04:11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Show me the state law that says a seized vehicle has to sit for a year before it can be sold.

I call bullsh!t on that.

7/22/2009 03:44:00 AM"


Not sit for a year, be actively used for actual police work for a year.

7/22/2009 04:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

7/22/2009 08:10:00 AM

Reminds me, for years we had a "church box" in the basement. Once or twice a year it all got donated to a charity. Quality clothing, toys, sports equipment, everything. Clothes were washed and ironed before they were put in the box. I found out at a later date, the "charity workers" were going through all the donated items, picking out the best shit for themselves and then leaving the picked over stuff for the people they were originally intended for. Ever since then, the stuff goes to neighbors, people we know. One bike we gave away has gone through three little kids.

Seems like the same thing going on here. Pathetic.

7/22/2009 04:16:00 PM  
Blogger OLD*6970 said...

LET'S BE FAIR ABOUT THIS...

EVERY SWORN PO SHOULD HAVE A

TAKE HOME CAR, MARKED OR M PLATE...

GOOD SATURATION.*

EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS.*

MORALE BOOSTER.*

MANY YEARS BACK THERE WAS A PO WORKING MEDICAL RECORDS...

HE DROVE THE BOSS'S TAKE HOME BACK

AND FORTH TO HIS OWN HOUSE, THE

BOSS HAD A LINCOLN OR CADDY,SO

THE DEAL WAS IN EMERGENCY HE WOULD

PICK UP THE BOSS AND THEY'D HIT IT.

MEDICAL RECORDS EMERGENCY???

UNLIKELY!

BUT LATER THERE WAS A PLANNED

FEDERL DISASTER DRILL, EVERYONE

KNEW THE DATE BUT THE TIME WAS A

SECRET, BUT EVERYONE KNEW IT.

SO THE GUY HAD A FEW TO MANY AND

WHEN HE GOT THE CALL 3 OR 4 A.M.

HE SLEPT THROUGH AND THE BOSS

ARRIVED AT HQ COMMAND IN HIS NEW

CADDY...

I THINK THE BOSS GOT MOVED NEXT TO

THE ACADEMY...THE PO WENT BACK TO

PATROL WHERE HE LIVED,

HAPPILY EVERAFTER...

SOMEBODY SAID

THE MORE THINGS CHANGE

THE MORE THEY STAY THE SAME...

7/22/2009 04:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SPEAKING OF TAKE HOME CARS!

You Gotta Love This Story

A True Story from the Jacksonville, FL , Police Dept.

A man goes to a party and has too much to drink. His friends plead with him to let them take him home. He says no he only lives a mile away.

About five blocks from party, the police pull him over for weaving and ask him to get out of the car and walk the line. Just as he starts, the police radio blares out a notice of a robbery taking place in a house just a block away. The police tell the man to stay put, they will be right back and they hop a fence and run down the street to the robbery.

The guy waits and waits and finally decides to drive home. When he gets there, he tells his wife he is going to bed, and to tell anyone who might come looking for him that he has the flu and has been in bed all day.

A few hours later the police knock on the door. They ask if Mr. Joe is there and his wife says yes. They ask to see him and she replies that he is in bed with the flu and has been so all day.

The police have his driver's license. They ask to see his car and she asks why.

They insist on seeing his car, so she takes them to the garage. She opens the door.

There sitting in the garage is the police car, with all its lights still flashing.


True story: Told by the driver at his first AA meeting.

Stay Safe, We Need to Laugh More.

7/22/2009 05:15:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Most leased cars in CPD are grant funded through the federal government....the city purchases gas at a rate much lower than what the regular consumer pays and can also be federally funded...the city is self insured....the leasing company pays for the maintenance...so it sounds a lot like.."if I cant have one, you shouldnt have one either" wah,wah,wah,wah,wah,..work in patrol for more than 10 years, go to a unit and actually get a car and then tell me how f***ing unfair it is!!!!!

Wrong!! The money for the leased vehicle comes from the 1505 money not a grant...

7/22/2009 05:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why don't these take home cars have M Plates?

While I don't agree that everyone needs a take home car, it would be pretty silly to have a "buy" officer trying to buy dope with a M Plate car!!!

7/22/2009 05:20:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So instead of using it, probably should be stored in a city auto pound?

7/22/2009 06:41:00 AM
***************
If we are using those cars, they should be covert vehicles for the year we have them, not for the personal use of anyone.

7/22/2009 05:31:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can someone tell me what "official business" the tall, boyish looking blond, F/2, dressed in shorts and a tee shirt(no gun belt, star, vest) has at the wine bar at Balmoral and Ravenswood tonight? She got out of a silver unmarked car, M160250 and went straight to the outdoor patio.

7/22/2009 06:49:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I made a post earlier on this thread. I am the poster who works in Narcotics who said I don't need a take home car.

I will now call Bullshit to 07:25:00!!!!! Nobody in Narcotics looks like stars from Miami Vice. The cars the P.O.s and Sgts use in Narcotics are either seized pieces of crap or leased cars that are nothing special. Anyone who tells you otherwise is not from Narcotics and totally full of shit!!!

The only 5 people in Narcotics I know who have nice cars are the 4 Lts and the guy who is responsible for the cars. His initials are JA. The commander of Narcotics drives a Crown Vic like the rest of the Commanders.

I love idiots who say what if you get a 67 Camaro or 70 Chevelle. The answer is the car is auctioned off. Nobody drives a car like that in Narcotics. Who buys a jab in a redone classic car???

Please fellow officers, get a clue before making posts.

Sorry SWAT officer you are all arrogant. I have never seen a group of officers with their noses held so high to everyone else. I say high to everyone at Homan Square. I have never had a hello said back to me by anyone in the immortal green uniform. Your units supervisors are even worse. SWAT uses every excuse in the book not to go on Search Warrants when asked. SWAT talks about how they want to help. They turn you down 9 times out of 10. I know most teams don't even waste their breath anymore.

7/22/2009 07:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Twenty and Out---You guys, SWAT, that is, definitely need take home vehicles--as a citizen of Chicago--i want you to have one so you can respond as quickly as possible to an HBT incident. And don't underestimate yourself--you guys are the top notch--It takes discipline, perseverance and much time away from your friends and family to retain the SWAT position--I have tremendous respect for all of you!! Be Proud! and I'm sure some p---y is going to put you down because of my comment but f--- them! You guys are an inspiration to all the hard working officers!! Be Safe and God Bless

7/22/2009 07:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Lemmy Caution said...

God luv ya for telling it how it iz.

7/22/2009 09:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Some of those take home cars go "home" to the suburbs. Take home car, filled up with city gas, home to Orland.Can only get away with it if you are out of Homan.

7/22/2009 09:17:00 PM  
Anonymous TAXPAYER said...

Let these clout babies log in their odometer reading weekly with fuel refill data.

Order them to log in any and all call-outs and the specific reason for same.

START TAKING AWAY CARS UNLESS THEY CAN BE JUSTIFIED UNDER ANALYSIS.
The overwhelming majority have no business having a take home car at TAXPAYER expense.

7/22/2009 09:41:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If someone believes they need a car, simply apply for one. POST the list of these guys so when you see the car with the M-plates at the Zoo, Great America or on Weed Street, we'll know who's BSing whom.
********************
a couple of years ago I spotted a M-plated vehicle with a Muni- vehicle sticker in a western suburb and called that political piece of shit (hernandez) in Ops command to report it. He gave me the thrid degree. I wonder if he passed that info along.

7/22/2009 09:43:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For the person who thought I was not telling the truth about the state mandate concerning keeping the car one year. There are many laws enacted that give the ISP the power to set standards. Police training standards are one. ISP is given certain powers to set standards. Title III investigations are another. Seized vehicles are another.
I know everyone thinks this is all BS, it is what it is. Before you call it all BS, please have some idea what you are talking about.

7/22/2009 10:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

is it true due to the fact that the SWAT guys were caught sleeping in their police vehicle at the airport by the commander while making overtime until further notice when they are in their police vehicle they must have their emergency equipment activated?

7/22/2009 10:35:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
To Twenty and Out---You guys, SWAT, that is, definitely need take home vehicles--as a citizen of Chicago--i want you to have one so you can respond as quickly as possible to an HBT incident. And don't underestimate yourself--you guys are the top notch--It takes discipline, perseverance and much time away from your friends and family to retain the SWAT position--I have tremendous respect for all of you!! Be Proud! and I'm sure some p---y is going to put you down because of my comment but f--- them! You guys are an inspiration to all the hard working officers!! Be Safe and God Bless

7/22/2009 07:01:00 PM

Thanks Leo for your support we ride harleys!

7/22/2009 11:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

>>>I've seen m plates everywhere Indiana casino, Woodfield Mall, Oakbrook mall , can't imagine what kinda cpd business going on in those places.

7/22/2009 03:08:00 PM<<<

TROLL SPOTTED!!

So have I, even places like Springfield, Cairo and Bumfuck Illinois. That's because ANY city owned vehicle from ANY town in Illinois can have an M-Plate.

And it does not have to be their police department.

It could be Department of Revenue, Law, or Education or ANY city department.

Did you know that railroad police have M-plates?

7/22/2009 11:39:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

there are swat guys on duty at least 2nd and third watch, they need no take home cars, they never had them before and it was never a problem. So what if you take your personal car by the time swat gets there and each boss figures out who is doing what, 90% of the time the bad guys were gone , or dead, or in custody already. I don't WANT TO HEAR YOUR CRAP swat guys,
i was there and had to call you guys on the phone call outs all the time, so what i say is the truth.
sos guy

7/22/2009 11:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The bottom line is if you name 10 units that have take home vehicles I'm sure we could prove a better need for them in 8 out of the 10 times.
So to the troll(s) that posted that crap.....KMA
To all the other P.O's....stay safe!!


Did you know you would have to respond to call outs in your personal car when you started? Thanks for playing!

7/22/2009 11:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks SCC for an interesting and perhaps one of the most hot button topics here in a long time.

SCC is right. In these tight times, if you have a take-home car, there should be a good reason. I can certainly see it for the people who really do have to respond from home on their off-time, etc.

What puzzles me is how there are so many of them in such a large department. Let's say you were in a smaller department in one of the burbs where maybe the detective bureau is staffed for one or two shifts. If detective supervisors there are routinely called in for emergencies because nobody is on duty at the time, then they should have a car. This is based on necessity, not brown-nosing.

In many of those departments, however, the take-home cars aren't always new, fully-loaded Crown Vic Interceptors. Maybe it's an Impala or a vehicle pulled out of patrol service.

And, while on the subject of equipment, one thing SCC really didn't get into is MAINTENANCE. Regular patrol vehicles should be fully maintained in excellent operating condition, not be rolling time bombs waiting to explode. How many CPD patrol vehicles could actually pass state inspection?

7/23/2009 12:28:00 AM  
Blogger illusiontan said...

the biggest problem with this department is that people can not mind to there own business. if some people are in position where they get a car(i am not one of them) good for them. every one always has this "i want to play with that toy" mentality and it s sad. there is no one posting in this section against take home cars that would not take one if offered to them. the best advice i ever got as a recruit is never point your finer at another cop. so quit whining and dont let the city take anything they havent already

7/23/2009 12:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Narcotics Guy said...

I made a post earlier on this thread. I am the poster who works in Narcotics who said I don't need a take home car.

I will now call Bullshit to 07:25:00!!!!! Nobody in Narcotics looks like stars from Miami Vice. The cars the P.O.s and Sgts use in Narcotics are either seized pieces of crap or leased cars that are nothing special. Anyone who tells you otherwise is not from Narcotics and totally full of shit!!!

The only 5 people in Narcotics I know who have nice cars are the 4 Lts and the guy who is responsible for the cars. His initials are JA. The commander of Narcotics drives a Crown Vic like the rest of the Commanders.

I love idiots who say what if you get a 67 Camaro or 70 Chevelle. The answer is the car is auctioned off. Nobody drives a car like that in Narcotics. Who buys a jab in a redone classic car???

Please fellow officers, get a clue before making posts.

Sorry SWAT officer you are all arrogant. I have never seen a group of officers with their noses held so high to everyone else. I say high to everyone at Homan Square. I have never had a hello said back to me by anyone in the immortal green uniform. Your units supervisors are even worse. SWAT uses every excuse in the book not to go on Search Warrants when asked. SWAT talks about how they want to help. They turn you down 9 times out of 10. I know most teams don't even waste their breath anymore.

7/22/2009 07:01:00 PM

TWENTY and OUT Said

..I CALL BULLSHIT...the "9 times out of ten" that SWAT turns down your warrants, that is unless you want SWAT to go after a guy for a dime bag of weed. You see superstar there is COURT PRECEDENCE that determines whether or not we can execute a search warrant. That's why when you call we ask so many questions. We have a point system we go by. If there aren't enough points we can't do the warrant because it's excessive force. If the warrant DID fit the parameters of a warrant we could legally execute the only reason we would turn it down is because you call us after it is signed and want us to do it NOW. See, it doesn't work like that either because we need time to plan the warrant. I promise you those are the only reasons SWAT would ever turn down a warrant.

7/23/2009 12:47:00 AM  
Blogger TWENTY and OUT said...

there are swat guys on duty at least 2nd and third watch, they need no take home cars, they never had them before and it was never a problem. So what if you take your personal car by the time swat gets there and each boss figures out who is doing what, 90% of the time the bad guys were gone , or dead, or in custody already. I don't WANT TO HEAR YOUR CRAP swat guys,
i was there and had to call you guys on the phone call outs all the time, so what i say is the truth.
sos guy

7/22/2009 11:51:00 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The bottom line is if you name 10 units that have take home vehicles I'm sure we could prove a better need for them in 8 out of the 10 times.
So to the troll(s) that posted that crap.....KMA
To all the other P.O's....stay safe!!


Did you know you would have to respond to call outs in your personal car when you started? Thanks for playing!

7/22/2009 11:54:00 PM

Thanks for posting back to back messages like you did hater. Thanks for telling everyone that read your posts that while in SOS it was your "job" to call guys out for HBT jobs... You must be proud of that Mr Real Police. I'm not even going to waste my time on you douchebag. Next time though please give us your comments before you hit the bottle all night in your "apartment" in mommy's basement. Then the post might be a little easier to follow.

7/23/2009 12:55:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Most leased cars in CPD are grant funded through the federal government....the city purchases gas at a rate much lower than what the regular consumer pays and can also be federally funded...the city is self insured....the leasing company pays for the maintenance...so it sounds a lot like.."if I cant have one, you shouldnt have one either" wah,wah,wah,wah,wah,..work in patrol for more than 10 years, go to a unit and actually get a car and then tell me how f***ing unfair it is!!!!!

Wrong!! The money for the leased vehicle comes from the 1505 money not a grant...

[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[
I think what the writer meant was there are units in the cpd who are awarded federal and state grants, and they use some of the money to lease vehicles. There are other lease vehicles out there other than narcotics. Just like the feds pay for vehicles for officers detailed to federal task forces, some are leased, some were forfeited.

7/23/2009 02:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Then I guess the area dicks are TOTALLY AMAZING! They actually can go to the area, pick up a car and follow a bad guy. WOW, let's hear it for the area detectives!!!!!!!

******************************
Idiot, we're talking about following a bad guy and not wanting the bad guy to know you're following him. Its called conducting an undercover confidential investigation.

7/23/2009 02:17:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I for the most part make buys in Narcotics and am considered a UCO (under cover officer). The fact that I'm a UCO doesn't make me better than anybody else. In my opinion I have the most dangerous job in the CPD. The risks I take and the danger I surround myself with I volunteered for. I would take a stack of take home cars away. Lets make a list of who doesn't need them.

UCO Wow you sound really cool. The man who lives the life of danger... Secret agent man, Secret agent man. So I bet you did not even need a call to get into narcotics. Give me a break.

7/23/2009 04:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I for the most part make buys in Narcotics and am considered a UCO (under cover officer). The fact that I'm a UCO doesn't make me better than anybody else. In my opinion I have the most dangerous job in the CPD. The risks I take and the danger I surround myself with I volunteered for. I would take a stack of take home cars away. Lets make a list of who doesn't need them.
you should have used your phone call to get made a Lt. instead of a UCO, but I guss that is next down the road for you after you have more than 5 years on the job.

7/23/2009 04:46:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

>>>I've seen m plates everywhere Indiana casino, Woodfield Mall, Oakbrook mall , can't imagine what kinda cpd business going on in those places.

7/22/2009 03:08:00 PM<<<

TROLL SPOTTED!!

So have I, even places like Springfield, Cairo and Bumfuck Illinois. That's because ANY city owned vehicle from ANY town in Illinois can have an M-Plate.

And it does not have to be their police department.

It could be Department of Revenue, Law, or Education or ANY city department.

Did you know that railroad police have M-plates?

7/22/2009 11:39:00 PM
------------------
AND a lot of municipalities ask their people to USE those cars when not working, for 'visibility'. So, unless you know the circumstances, don't judge too quickly.

7/23/2009 07:20:00 AM  
Anonymous Friendly SWAT Guy said...

I find it hard to believe SWAT, or any copper for that matter, would ignore a morining greeting or a kind word in passing from a fellow officer. Everyone has a bad day. Maybe you just have more than the average bear.

Kindness is free, as are manners, politeness, and a smile. It's the simple things in life that go a long way. So stop being a grumpy cocksucker and smile!

7/23/2009 08:52:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The bomb sniffing dogs are a bigger scam then the dope sniffing dogs. They couldn't find a bomb in Iraq.

7/23/2009 08:52:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

BS! BS! BS! BS! BS! BS! BS! BS! BS! BS! BS! BS! BS! BS! BS

THE TWO MAIN UNITS IN OCD: GANG INVESTIGATIONS AND NARCOTICS NEVER AND I MEAN NEVER RESPOND TO ANY OFF DUTY SHOOTINGS, PERIOD!!!

FUCK! WE BARELY RESPOND TO SHOOTINGS WHILE WORKING!!!!

KEEPING IT REAL, IT'S NICE TO HAVE THE TAKE HOME CAR BECAUSE WE SAVE MONEY ON GAS, REPAIRS ETC.

THIS IS THE INCENTIVE SINCE WE GET PAID THE SAME AMOUNT AS PUSHING A BEAT CAR, CONSIDERING WE HAVE A HIGH RISK JOB.

THE DOWN TIME IS INCREDIBLE INCLUDING LUNCH. THE SAVINGS ON UNIFORMS IS AWESOME SINCE WE NEVER WEAR IT. SHIT!!!! WE CAN'T EVEN WEAR FOR ST. JUDE... WE HAVE TO WEAR SUITS....AWESOME. WE ARE TOTALLY IMPORTANT.

YOU SEE GUYS, IT'S THE BEST THING IN THE DEPT NO BACK LOGS!!! NO GOING DOWN FOR LUNCH!!! NO SPECIFIC TIME FOR ROLL CALL OR CHECK OFF... AS LONG AS YOU HAVE THE NEXTEL ON, YOU CAN CHECK OFF FROM THE SHITTER AT HOME, LOL

SO PLEASE STOP BITCHING ABOUT THE GOOD THINGS WE HAVE BECAUSE SOMEONE MAY TAKE NOTE AND CHANGE OUR PROGRAM AND THEN WE'LL ALL BE MISERABLE LIKE PATROL.

SO PLEASE TONE IT DOWN!!!!!!!!

7/23/2009 10:21:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Idiot, we're talking about following a bad guy and not wanting the bad guy to know you're following him. Its called conducting an undercover confidential investigation.

Well, idiot, why do you think the detectives use covert cars? And they don't have to take them home to use for shopping like OCD.

7/23/2009 11:21:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who cares? In a couple of months we'll have more than enough cars to go around. With all the 55 and out that's going to happen...
I don't want a car because there's nowhere to park it by the crib.

7/23/2009 01:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

G-man said...
Why don't these take home cars have M Plates?

7/22/2009 01:53:00 AM


It would kind of defeat the purpose of doing surveillance when you have an M Plate on a car, now wouldn't it?

While there are some people who shouldn't have cars, most of the officers that drive them are actually out on the streets in an undercover capacity.

7/23/2009 06:50:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Suburban municipalities usually have MP on their plates, not the solo M that Chicago carries.

7/23/2009 11:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Wife of Friendly SWAT Guy said...

To the SWAT hating poster... I am married to the hardest working, dedicated, professional, fiercely loyal, passionate (and compassionate), down-to-earth, friendly and modest man that happens to be a SWAT operator for CPD. My children and I don't get to see him often because of the time he spends working, you know, being on call 24/7 and going on numerous search warrants and the more frequently occurring number of jobs. Although we miss him terribly, we know that he is doing something that he loves, is great at, and is very proud of. I have never seen him turn off his work blackberry, nor have I ever seen him deliberately ignore a greeting from a fellow officer or anyone else for that matter. So if you would like to make specific comments at specific individuals, great. But please stop making ignorant fallacious generalizations that disparage an entire unit. This is what the media and others have been doing to dirty the integrity and reputation of the entire CPD based on a very few bad (or perceived bad) apples.

Oh, and all SWAT operators should definitely get take-home cars for all the obvious reasons already noted.

7/24/2009 12:15:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Every member with a take home car should have to document each month the amount of times those vehicles were used to respond to emergency situations while off duty. Each member should clearly define why they needed that car at home and couldn't drive to their place of work and pick up a city vehicle like every other "working police officer" does. I am a taxpayer, and I want to know why administrative personnel need take home cars. Why does merit Lt. MS in Asset Forfeiture need a take home BMW? Why can't Homan Square personnel drive their own cars to work and pick up their city vehicles there? Every taxpayer should demand answers. Mayor Daley, you're crying poor, stop this abuse of city vehicles.

7/22/2009 01:13:00 AM

WE DO, ITS CALLED EXTENDED HOURS USE OF DEPARTMENT VEHICLE REPORT, CPD-42.505. AND IF WE DONT HAVE TIMES THAT WE RESPONDED OFF DUTY EACH MONTH WE LOSE THE CAR. MANY GUYS WHO REFUSE TO ANSWER AFTER HOURS BECAUSE THEY ARE BUSY WITH FAMILY OR WHATEVER HAVE LOST THEIRS.

7/24/2009 11:09:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Back in 2000 I was working at Headquarters when the order came from city haul that everyone was losing their take home cars except forthe exempts, boy you should have seen the comotion, coppers actually weeping and didn'tknow what they would do for a car because their personal car was being used by the kids and he couldn't take the wifes car away, these spoiled little fucks, PO's and Sgts. & Lts were amazing, they actually were devistated by this order. Sad part is that when you get to take a car home it should be due to the fact that you really do something after hours that pertains to the police dept. not because you are a half way decent looking 5 yr wonder who makes the boss feel good by having a pretty girl around. The Sgts from the 1st deputies office had take home cars and the reason was that they made periodic checks on the coppers at the OPS Command Desk. Also administrative people who needed to get in fast to make coffee for the bosses. I have a take home car but I'm a Sgt. in a unit that responds to emergencies on a 24 hr. basis and this is my only perk, I get awaken quite a few times so it's not all glitter and gold.

7/24/2009 09:09:00 PM  

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