State's Attorney's Did What Now?
Eight months before Jimmie Smith raped a young woman, her two sisters and their teenage friend in a harrowing 36-hour ordeal last May, he sexually assaulted one of the victims but was never charged, Cook County prosecutors said today.
This afternoon, prosecutors announced Smith, 34, has been charged with the sexual assault and criminal sexual assault related to the Sept. 1, 2008 attack.
When Judge Peggy Chiampas asked why charges were never filed in the alleged rape of the then 20-year-old woman, Assistant State’s Attorney Mariano Reyna said he did not know. Reyna instead detailed how Smith raped the woman and the three others months later.
ASA Reyna didn't know why Smith wasn't charged? Or he wouldn't say? Because we're pretty sure we know why he wasn't initially charged for 15 months. So does every cop reading who has ever dealt with Felony Review. Flurries of phone calls, whispered conversations in hallways, trying the case with the victim as the offending party. And the end result? Four additional rapes. Haven't we been bombarding society in general and daughters specifically that "no means no" and "date rape is still rape"? We were unaware that there was an asterisk after these statements that means "...except in Cook County."
The "reverends" should be outraged that four women from their community were victimized by the system, but they won't be because it's black-on-black crime and there's no angle to play. Women Groups should be up in arms that a domestic rape wasn't prosecuted because of political considerations, but they won't be because it's a female State's Attorney. Chicagoans should be getting the tar, feathers and pitchforks ready because effective prosecution of criminals has taken a backseat to "conviction rates" and political BS, but they won't because they've been conditioned by the media to reflexively blame the police who are handcuffed by the very system that's supposed to protect them.
Anyone want to take a guess at how many additional batteries, murders, rapes, and assorted other acts have been abetted by inaction on the part of Anita Alvarez and her crew of incompetent political hack lawyers?
The "reverends" should be outraged that four women from their community were victimized by the system, but they won't be because it's black-on-black crime and there's no angle to play. Women Groups should be up in arms that a domestic rape wasn't prosecuted because of political considerations, but they won't be because it's a female State's Attorney. Chicagoans should be getting the tar, feathers and pitchforks ready because effective prosecution of criminals has taken a backseat to "conviction rates" and political BS, but they won't because they've been conditioned by the media to reflexively blame the police who are handcuffed by the very system that's supposed to protect them.
Anyone want to take a guess at how many additional batteries, murders, rapes, and assorted other acts have been abetted by inaction on the part of Anita Alvarez and her crew of incompetent political hack lawyers?
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
54 Comments:
first off I know both of these people. Judge Chiampas and mariano reyna. Mariano Is going to be a great states attorney. He is 100 percent pro police and he does absolutly everything he can to get the case to be a winner. Judge peggy is a fantastic woman. She is a no non sense woman and doesnt play the political crap. she will tell you 100 percent what is on her mind. She is very very pro police and goes out of her way to sign search warrants at all times of the night for any copper that calls. I wouldnt start ripping these two.. mariano and peggy are two of our greatest allies that we have 26th street and Being a police officer for 20 years I will stand up for them anytime... even though mariano is younger he is there for the right reasons and is there for us.
Ill agree with SCC to a point. But how many times are these cases just nonsensical ghetto BS. The states attorneys office is only concerned with their conviction rates and approving only slam dunks. But with crackhead victims with rap sheets a mile long there needs to be something in place to weed out the nonsense.
Every area has a "sex guy" or "sex team." Guys/gals who know what is real and what is bullshit. Jay D and I were having dinner one night and he said if he had ONE MORE alleged Criminal Sexual Assault where the victim claims the offender raped/sodomized/orally penetrated her but then drove her home to mom/took her to breakfast/bought her new Air Jordans or Nike outfits he'd scream! Not to say that these weren't bonafide rapes, just try convincing a Cook County Jury that the victim is legit.
The basis for the preliminary examination (felony prelim court for you new guys) is twofold: determine whether a crime has occurred and whether the person before the bench is the person MOST LIKELY to have committed the offense. No finding of guilt or innocence just a finding a probable cause or NO probable cause to remand the case over to Felony Trial Court. Try to convince a salty collection of Englewood residents that a case is legit cuz old boy raped ole girl and then bought her a jogging suit and she didn't say anything for 2 weeks.
The bad guys KNOW how the system works and there are quite a few who study the Criminal Justice System looking for a seam to exploit. Cops/ ASA's /Judges know what's going on. Civilians havent a clue. It's an old saying that "you can't pick your victim" but you've gotta remember that personal integrity is all you have.
Fight these guys tooth and nail. DEMAND to talk to a Supervisor to get the thing approved. Don't just accept a rejection but hold out for a supervisor to approve you. If you've got a legit case then call Operations Command and have the Street Deputy (who is an officer of the court BTW) approve Felony Charges.
It's "Us against them." Use the tools you've got to help tilt the case in your favor.
Don't TAKE NO FOR A LIVING.
Judge Chiampas for Mayor!
FRU is a joke. It takes them three hours to take a statement from one person. They area a fucking joke.
I have told people for years that there are 2 sets of laws in this state, Cook Co and everyone else. I even had Dept members who do not deal with the CC States Attorneys Office try and tell me that I 'm wrong and that the law is the same throughout the state. They don't realize that these ASAs make up stuff as they go along and do not follow the law as it is written. When we don't follow the law its a crime, when they don't its "prosecutor discretion".
When we don't follow the law its a crime, when they don't its "prosecutor discretion".
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I've got no problem with the ASA's when they are honest with me. I had a dead bang case (a very minor one) and the ASA told me they werent going to approve it. I asked why. He said "prosecutor discretion" - I said OK, thanks , goodbye. That's it. At least he didn't play games. I have no problem with that when they play it that way. Just don't bullshit me.
Then I had a robbery on video. Well, they wanted the video. Understandable. But the guy with the video had to pay $50 for it - what the hell did he care, he's not the victim. (Gas station had video recorded/stored at some external location) He's not going to pay. I related all this to the 25 year old Northshore Valley Girl at the ASA's felony review and they dragged me through the mud for 2 days. Finally they gave in - "Oh, the gas station owner won't give you the video?" Ya, I've been telling you that for 2 shifts. They thought I was lying. But they did approve charges finally.
It's a big f*cking clusterf*ck, if you ask me.
So, if you charge ol boy and he goes to trial, the ASA's look stupid when the guy isn't convicted.
If he IS convicted, Pat Quinn is just going to find some way to unleash him back on society anyway, releasing him on some IDOC early release program or other.
My solution? Retire, move to Arizona, and let Sheriff Joe Arpaia deal with the a**holes. He puts them in outdoor prison camps and has them wearing hot pink prison jumpsuits and sleeping on cots in big tents.
THATS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE ! ! !
Off topic - about dem cameras
Actually,
there are about thirty cops assigned to the 911 center, cops who were promoted to dispatcher, who would not take the city's offer to go back to patrol and earn dispatchers pay (D-2). There was a grievance or lawsuit and they won the right to keep their jobs. Except that the city just went ahead and hired all civilians to take calls and dispatch calls, so these officers were assigned to .... hmmm..... they were assigned to ....., it's here somewhere..... Deputy O'Keefe, these people work for you, what are they assigned to do? Oh, ummm, Commander Lewin, these people are assigned to you, what are their assignment? C.L."I just sign their A&A sheets, someone at 911 supervises them. "Someone" turned out to be "Noone." They did their own sheets, assigned themselves their own shifts, days off, days working etc. AND guess what? They were ALWAYS ALWAYS available to work special employment ANY time it came up, why? because they could just change the A&As to reflect them being off work, or not, and do a double.
NOW, some ten years later, someone noticed that these people existed and that they actually had zero responsibilities. So NOW they are watching the pod cameras. Well, let's say that their heads are pointed in the direction of the pod cameras.
Take something as simple as retail theft. Where in the statute does it say that the merchant must have a video camera in his store to record the crime? Yet try to get an upgrade without one. Only Crook County requires one even though it's not in the law. So if they can't even get a simple crime like that right, how can I trust them on the real cases?
a couple of yrs ago a get a case of a 13yr old getting raped. I pull reports and sure enough I find that he was BROUGHT in and ARRESTED on two other recent cases. He even used the SAME words and the ASA's rejected the two cases. They didn't believe the two minors. I get mine approved and he is now sitting in IDOC until 2037. A/5 true story.
I know Judge Chiampas and she is on our side. Don't know Reyna so I cant say anything about him, good or bad.
Anita, you need to get a backbone because its all too obvious the ASA's that work for you don't want to approve anything that isnt a slam dunk.
I was attacked by one of CPS's Rhodes scholars while working off duty at one of their fine institutions. Actually it is a good school with an outstanding staff and principle. Anyway dude decides he wants to show me how much of a man he is after trespassing and refusing to leave when I told him too and grabs me, shoves me into the lockers then jumps on top of me and starts swinging. After getting over the shock of being aggressively attacked like this; and getting over it PDQ, I commence to giving this motherf*@king future Gang Banger Grad Student a lesson in biting off more than you can chew.
After leaving his DNA on the hallway floor, a nice sum I may add, he was cuffed and a CFD bamalance took him to the hospital where the ET came to take pictures et all.
Charges: Agg Bat to a Protected Employee, Criminal Trespass to State Supported land, Attempt Disarming of a P.O. to say the least. Charges are dropped!!! I was never notified of the court date. Never Notified!! Perp is a juvenile. I call ASA Lisa Morrison and she tells me I was notified through the school. I tell her no I was not. I had been anticipating the notification and was regularly checking with the school for the notification. She also tells me she didnt know I was a P.O. and then in the same conversation she states that Judge Sheehan will not send a case back up if a P.O. doesnt show up for court the first time. Just for the record, it clearly stated in the arrest report and case I was a P.O and my badge number is listed. THEY DID NOT NOTIFY ME. Oh man was I hot about that. The ASA was so callous about the whole thing and when she stated she would get back to me after I had to repeatedly call her ass she NEVER DID.
Now I know about DDT and that BS but the thing that really pisses me the F*@K Off is that Im a victim and they have no problem's making it easy for the hoodlums to walk free. Im not suprised at all by what happened in this case.
Anita & many of her assistants are as inept as many of the "ghetto" offenders that they fail to charge.
My Dear Two Good Peeps, SCC isn't blaming this judge at all you dic, and not blaming the ASA other than the ASA must know why there were no charges earlier because if this ASA has half a brain (possible, but not necessarily likely) the question must've come up in his mind and he asked. Mostcertainly this ASA had no involvement with the first case.
For SCC, you know this all started way before Anita got in. Been F'd up for decades. What do you call an attorney who graduates last in his class? ASA.
Fight these guys tooth and nail. DEMAND to talk to a Supervisor to get the thing approved. Don't just accept a rejection but hold out for a supervisor to approve you. If you've got a legit case then call Operations Command and have the Street Deputy (who is an officer of the court BTW) approve Felony Charges.
It's "Us against them." Use the tools you've got to help tilt the case in your favor.
Don't TAKE NO FOR A LIVING.
12/24/2009 03:32:00 AM
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There are no more street deputies.
We are ALL officers of the court (remember the deputy clerk oath?).
We won't be doing the talking on the phone to the ASAs, the detectives will be.
No one has to defend Jude Peggy Chiampas..any real P.o knows where she stands. SHe makes herself availiable for search warrants any and all times of the day and night.
She also volunteers as the Duty Judge whenever the Chief Judge is in a bind....Tuff Broad...get her to 26th street...fast...
If this is true, Alvarez should have to answer why? And i don't think saying "This is ghetto crime bullshit" is going to fly. This is why we have a court of law with judges and juries. Alvarez and her crew cant judge a case on whether they will win or not. Time for her to answer up or step aside and let a real attorney run that office and not a HDO political hack!
great job for any cop that was a real cop is to work for a private atty. Mayor Daley is stupid to think we can't get work.
Here's Another One -
Charges declined in stabbing of Rogers Park man
December 23, 2009 11:34 PM
A person questioned in the stabbing death of a Rogers Park man earlier this week was released today after prosecutors declined to charge him, police said.
The stabbing Monday about 10:45 a.m. in a home in the 6800 block of North Wayne Avenue left Magnul Milly, 18, dead, and another person with non-life threatening injuries, authorities said.
Milly, of the 6500 block of North Fairfield Avenue, was declared dead at St. Francis Hospital in Evanston a short time after the stabbing.
The Cook County state's attorney's office declined to prosecute a person who had been questioned in the stabbing, officially notifying police at 9:50 a.m. Wednesday that the person would not be prosecuted, said Police News Affairs Officer Gabrielle Lesniak.
Lesniak said she could not release any further information about why the person would not be prosecuted, and referred questions to the state's attorney's office. A spokeswoman for the office was not immediately available.
The man who was released was a 45-year-old man who was a guest at the home where the stabbing took place, police said. Detectives were still trying to piece together sufficient information to determine what happened.
The paper said there were questions as to whether it was consensual.
But let's ask this? You have a 15 year old girl with her 19 year old boyfriend making babies and mama wants to press charges. HE gets charged even though it was consensual and then he is marked a sex offender.
So .... when will they see the law for what it is and stop making their own rules? Whether it's a juvenile or adult, It is what it is!
Nobody is ripping the judge or the ASA that couldn't explain why the person wasn't charged in the first place.
The post is pointing out how the ASA's office works! The rapist should have been charged the first time and all these other rapes would not have happened. But someone in Felony Review denied the charges because there was doubt as to the victims credibility and look what happened.
That's why you should ALWAYS put the reason for denial on your case and arrest report because when it comes back to haunt the ASA's office, everyone will know the answer to there question... Why wasn't he charged the first time.
Hey "Two Good People"
SCC is not saying Chiampas and Mariano are not good people.
You must not be a cop: let me explain.
1) Call an ASA at felony review for an approval of rape (CSA) charges.
2) After reviewing the facts w/ the ASA, recieve a "deny" on felony upgrade and get the ASA's name.
The ASA and Felony Review is responsible for denying felony charges.
15 months later, Judge Chiampas asks a question and ASA Mariano gives his response.
Mariano could have said, "Your Honor, after checking the arrest report, it was ASA BLANK you initially denied the "felony upgrade. That is why he wasn't charged"
BUT, I don't expect the judge actually wanted the real answer to her question...
Cook County is the only one I know of that ignores ILCS when it comes to registered sex offender violations.
Authored by non other than former head of Felony Review meathead Darren O'Brien. Along with the City's policy of ignoring illegal immigrants, the CCSAO refuses to charge registered sex offender violations that would be charged in every other county in the state.
"Hey scumbags! Come to Cook County. Move from place to place without registering. We love you!"
Unless if course you move next to a States Attorney. Different rules for them dontcha know.
Merry Christmas Assholes.
ALVAREZ=FEMINIST, BIASED, POLITICAL HACK . FURTHER RUINING THE STATES ATTORNEYS OFFICE. ALSO RUINED 2 GOOD INVESTIGATORS CHRISTMAS BY FIRING THEM, WHEN SHE SHOULD HAVE PROVIDED BETTER SECURITY CONDITIONS FOR THEM TO WORK UNDER, LIKE A CAGE-CAR FOR TRANSPORTING PRISONERS, LIKE 99.9 % OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES HAVE USED FOR DECADES. I HOPE SHE PERSONALLY GETS SUED BY BOTH THE FIRED INVESTIGATORS, FOR HER NEGILGENCE AND INCOMPETENCE.
Those 2 Investigators would have never been fired if they were female, Hispanic, or Blak. Alvarez= sexist and racist.
C.C.S.A.O. is just like Chicago, Out of Control with Political Correctness.
chiampas is a GREAT judge and is very pro-police
Yeah, and you'll have to go into the restaurant or wherever she's at to get that warrant signed. So she can look important.
off topic: anyone know what happened to the woman who came to the 9th district desk and got shooed away when she showed a cell phone video of her scumbag boyfriend having sex with her 7 year old daughter? did she get a report did he get arrested anyone hear anything about this.
37 ? is there a prize or something for guessing right ?
Yet they charged John Herman!
ASA's can and do willingly and intentionally fuck up because they can't be sued for everything they have like peed-on peon blueshirts and there is no internal sanction to speak of. These people operate with impunity and have no fear of sanction, legal or otherwise.
It's a good thing their bullshit is being exposed... hopefully some light will be shed on some of the deeply funky & underhanded shit that's been goin on at ops/ipra, iad and the gen. counsel to the supt's office. Sunlight, fresh air, raid and lysol... Then everything might be alright.
Not for nothing, but Alvarez was NOT the state's attorney in September of 2008.
How about this....hit approved and put the ASA's fucking name in there. Is it on tape? Hell no, is it on video? Hell no. Prove you rejected the Charges. All of you Felony Review assholes are just that...assholes. I don't need some 20 something fuckwad fresh out of some bullshit law school to tell me, who has been dealing with and enforcing the law for over 15 years tell me that I don't have enough to charge someone. Fuck you, thats what judges are for. YOU PEOPLE ARE NOT JUDGES!!!! Your excuses are some of the shittiest excuses for denial to, it could have been his brothers pants for real, there is no video, the victim has a rap sheet. SO THE FUCK WHAT?
Felony Review, every one of you should be fired and should be sent out the front doors to your little yuppie ass condo, then you morons can take cases and use your dumb excuses that some dumb ass lawyer TRIED to use as a defense. Fucking Useless Tards.
It's obvious CCSAO felony review is way screwed up. Athough they can't issue on every bust, if they dump a case they should at least have the courtesy and professionalism to explain why.
A few years ago in Area 2 an arrest is made for Agg robbery. The guy had just car jacked someone in Calumett Park and we caught the guy. Cal Park sends detectives out in the morning and 2nd Watch captin CW refuses to let them speak to him. They leave and I call state and explain what went down. I ask for atleast psmv charges till they can be upgraded to robbery. vic is good but Cal Park needs to handle case and cant talk to arrestee cause CW a freak. The 48 hour rule is near and state says no to psmv, they dont want to make fools of themselves for approving those charges they tell me. So i charge him with cttv cause thats all they say i can do. Two weeks later he kills someone. Nice
12/24/2009 07:13:00 AM
Why is it the scrubs all win the life lottery and people who give a shit and work like dogs get fucked over.
I don't get it.
Hutchie Moore for Mayor! Put a lawyer in his (or her) place!!!
chiampas is a GREAT judge and is very pro-police
Stay off the blog, judge
Anyone want to take a guess at how many additional batteries, murders, rapes, and assorted other acts have been abetted by inaction on the part of Anita Alvarez and her crew of incompetent political hack lawyers?
23.
The laws in this country are obsolete. The Constitution was drafted over 230 years ago, before the likes of Condos, vehicles, bicycles, and Crack Cocaine...This 230 year lapse has given criminals AND THEIR LAWYERS 230 years of training to find every loophole possible...The Constitution does not protect the innocent law abiding citizens- but the guilty...instead of taking things as a "Case-by-case" basis, Often times dumb ass attorneys always apply a previous ruling (even if it happened 3000 years ago) to the cases today (Precedent)...True, law enforcement (LE) should not "illegally" obtain evidence, but there should be some middle ground...many murder cases have been tossed completely, because LE didnt "mirandize"-(a legal precedent) the guy on time- but bodies in the closet???. Another problem is the term "reasonable", which can be tilted in the favor of attorneys. If LE arrests jimmy on the same corner 30 times for selling narcotics, is it really unreasonable to go right up and search jimmy on that corner? To the Officers, it would not be, but to the untrained eye "he aint did nuffin", and "dey put doze cases on him", and "dey need to be findin doze shootuz and killuz" (Even do' dey be drinkin 40's wit em). So if LE finds a truckload of rocks in jimmy's pocket, the case will be thrown out under the 4th ammendment as an "unreasonable" search, and he will sue the LE department and win millions of dollars for false arrest. How can you "observe" anything in a big ugly slow tahoe? He can see you coming miles away... so all he gotta do is stand with his hands in his pocket, and now you (technically) have no reason to stop him or search him.
Remember, there are two sets of "reasonable"- the trained and the untrained. Why else do you think people think that shooting guns from people's hand, and gently lullabying a pitbull or cougar to sleep or "if dey had got dare on time..." are reasonable???
The constitution is like a stage coach that has been retrofitted to operate like a new car, without modification to its chassis. You can put the engine in it and it will run, but the chassis cannot take the demands of today's driving!!!
Something must be done!
Two weeks later he kills someone. Nice
12/25/2009 07:11:00 AM
It would be priceless if it was another scumbag?????? Sometimes I feel that the scumbags get more justice out on the street than they would if they were actually convicted and released 2 months later. At least when they are out on the street they have the chance to be killed or kill thier fellow scumbags. Observe, report, and let the animals kill each other. That's just like my opinion Man.
Here's Another One -
Charges declined in stabbing of Rogers Park man
December 23, 2009 11:34 PM
A person questioned in the stabbing death of a Rogers Park man earlier this week was released today after prosecutors declined to charge him, police said.
The stabbing Monday about 10:45 a.m. in a home in the 6800 block of North Wayne Avenue left Magnul Milly, 18, dead, and another person with non-life threatening injuries, authorities said.
Milly, of the 6500 block of North Fairfield Avenue, was declared dead at St. Francis Hospital in Evanston a short time after the stabbing.
The Cook County state's attorney's office declined to prosecute a person who had been questioned in the stabbing, officially notifying police at 9:50 a.m. Wednesday that the person would not be prosecuted, said Police News Affairs Officer Gabrielle Lesniak.
Lesniak said she could not release any further information about why the person would not be prosecuted, and referred questions to the state's attorney's office. A spokeswoman for the office was not immediately available.
The man who was released was a 45-year-old man who was a guest at the home where the stabbing took place, police said. Detectives were still trying to piece together sufficient information to determine what happened.
----------------------
It was self defense. Young bloods tried to get rough with an old school crack head and got schooled. Original Gangster must have done some downtime because he showed mad skills with his shiv. You can't bring this to a jury. So charges were dropped.
Self cleaning oven.
Try to get felony approval for a dui driver who injures someone. Felony review denies the approval. When it gets to traffic court the ASAs there call major accident and want the charge upgraded. I say let them upgrade it themselves, since their felony review declined it initially. The ASAs assigned to felony review and traffic court and criminal court obviously don't talk to each other.
I worked with Judge Peggy when she was in narcotics. She was a concerned , hard working ASA then. I am sure she is the same as a judge. She was one of the best ASAs I ever worked with.
old retired guy
Another felony review screw-up. They are terrible.
Merry Christmas.
Anonymous said...
Hutchie Moore for Mayor! Put a lawyer in his (or her) place!!!
12/25/2009 09:40:00 AM
I don't know if Hutchie is even alive. I did a search on IDOC to see if he was still in prison and came up with 450 Moore's, none named Hutchie.
He killed the judge who signed my divorce decree and an Oak Park divorce lawyer. Oak Park has a handgun ban because of his death. The lawyer's widow and other Oak Parkers got together and had Oak Park declared a "handgun free zone."
So no legal handguns for residents but plenty of crime whistles for when some miscreant ignores the "handgun free zone" signs.
12/26/2009 05:02:00 AM...
Hutchie Moore???
now THAT'S a blast from the past!
ol' country boy and was a very damn good shot... He was known to be able to draw, fire and cut a rat in two as it ran across the alley.
No one can say for sure what went through his mind that day he decided to "let go of the rope."
We would hazard a reckoning that if he were still in the land of the living he would be around 75 years old, but in all likelihood he expired in custody of IDOC.
off topic: anyone know what happened to the woman who came to the 9th district desk and got shooed away when she showed a cell phone video of her scumbag boyfriend having sex with her 7 year old daughter? did she get a report did he get arrested anyone hear anything about this.
12th District handled the case as it should have been handled. Followed procedure and didn't jump to conclusions.
Old Retired Guy Here: just like to put my two cents in. I was always confused about what it took for for the ASA's to approve charges. Sometimes you would catch the burglar right out the door, with the proceeds stacked, no felony charges. One time I had some kids that broke into a school for a prank. I catch the last one out. I told the ASA the exact facts. Felony Approved. I had true Armed Robberies, that were not approved,because the victim knew the offender, from the neighborhood.
My point is don't think it has not been this way, for a long time.
PS: Have a nice day.
Anonymous
I have dealt with states attorneys that resulted in a shoving match. Most look down up the police because of their education ( states attorneys). Not Peggy she was great, there were others that were also great--Christine Cook -- Pat Coughlin-- would go out of their way to help ( not hinder) the investigation but unfortunately they were the minority. Many were too busy with real estate , political nonsense, that sort of thing.
old retired guy
I worked with Judge Peggy when she was in narcotics. She was a concerned , hard working ASA then. I am sure she is the same as a judge. She was one of the best ASAs I ever worked with.
Really, "old retired guy"? That's strange, because all she did in the drug unit was run that stupid diversion school that everybody wanted to get rid of anyway.
What kind of work did you do that involved that school, "old retired guy"?
Peggy and Pat Coughlin did a fine job on a wire tap.
old retired guy
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