Concealed Carry Falls Short in Illinois
- Legislation backed by gun-rights advocates that would allow Illinoisans to carry concealed weapons went down Thursday in the House, leaving the spring legislative debate over concealed-carry at a stalemate.
Legislation backed by the National Rifle Association and pushed by Rep. Brandon Phelps (D-Harrisburg) failed on a 64-45 roll call, with four voting present. The bill needed 71 votes to pass the House.
"This could be our last chance to pass something by June 9th," Phelps said, referring to the federal appeals court deadline imposed on Illinois to pass a concealed-carry law.
So contrary to everything Quinn, Rahm, Madigan and the rest of Illinois politicians would have you believe, Concealed Carry has a clear majority in the Illinois House. That's good news.
The other news is it looks more and more like nothing will get done:
The other news is it looks more and more like nothing will get done:
- That means neither side of the gun-control debate in Springfield has enough backing to push through their own version. That stalemate casts significant doubts on how -- or whether -- gun-rights and gun-control advocates can reach a compromise to meet the June 9th deadline established by the federal appeals court.
So what now?
"I don't know," said Todd Vandermyde, a lobbyist for the National Rifle Association. "Right now, we're going to have to step back and see what the roll call looked like. We had more people telling us that they were inclined to vote for this version with some changes that there were. Obviously, we made movements, and I don't know what else to say."
We would hope that Second Amendment Rights groups have some legal framework in place to provide guidelines for whatever happens 10 June. Failure by Illinois to address the Concealed Carry issue is going to throw handfuls of sand into the legal processes. You cannot arrest people for a law declared unconstitutional without opening yourself to civil liability, so the police's hands are tied. County Courts cannot prosecute a law known to be unconstitutional. Jails cannot hold citizens who haven't broken a law. Some people have even expressed the opinion that your FOID card becomes your permit - we doubt the State Police are on board with that, but their hands are tied, too.
Interesting times.
Interesting times.
Labels: gun issues
posted by SCC at 12:04 AM
40 Comments:
Let's not kid ourselfs. You can bet money that the political apparatus is sounding like Blago "we're are sitting on a eff-ing gold mind here.." waiting to cash in while holding votes hostage.
It all goes to the highest bidder. Constitution and morality be damned.
Political whores.
You know they’re not going to allow law-abiding citizens to openly carry firearms because the immediate drop in crime would be too embarrassing for them. They’ll keep right on doing what they’re doing now and the Constitution be damned.
I think that Federal Judge should throw Quinn in jail on June 10th and keep him there until the General Assembly complies with the law.
I feel for the police who will be put in the middle of all this... Anita Alvarez has already stated that her office will continue to prosecute UUW even though it's been ruled unconstitutional, but it's the cops who will be hit with the Section 1983 lawsuits for civil rights violations. And there's no immunity in those cases - an officer who makes an illegal arrest under an unconstitutional law is PERSONALLY liable for damages.
I thought that if the legislature didn't pass something by the deadline, the court was threatening to create their own CC law for the citizens of Illinois to follow until a new one could get passed?
I think I'd rather do it that way. The court would certainly set up a far less restrictive law that those dolts down in Springfield will.
Good.
I hope someone arrests one of my relatives for exercising a constitutional right.
Pay up fuckos!!!!
The Illinois UUW and Agg UUW statutes are both unconstitutional. If you are not a prohibited person............
With this failure, we're now only days away from a chorus of "Wild West" statements and predictions. Only the Wild West had no where near the shootings and killings that modern day Chicago has so maybe that's where we should be going.
Illustrating Chicago's Murders, Homicides, Violence and Idiocy at heyjackass.com
Guns For EVERYONE said...
"I thought that if the legislature didn't pass something by the deadline, the court was threatening to create their own CC law for the citizens of Illinois to follow until a new one could get passed?"
The court can't create a law. It has ruled the UUW/AUUW statutes unconstitutional, but stayed its judgement for 180 days in order to give the Legislature time to create a replacement law if it chooses. At the end of the 180 days (June 9th), the court will send the case back to the lower courts with instructions to order an injunction against prosecuting violations of the UUW/AUUW laws. At this point the laws are unenforceable, and there will be effectively no laws at the state level restricting carrying of a firearm. Only the Federal restrictions and any municipal ordinances will apply. Wanna put your .44 Mag on your hip and walk into Walmart? Cool. AR-15 over your shoulder, walking down main street? You're good, nothing illegal there, as long as you're not in a municipality that has its own restrictions.
So of course Chicago and certain other municipalities will put their own restrictions on the books, and they'll be taken to court one by one, which will cost the taxpayers over and over again. And if a law is unconstitutional at the state level, how can it be OK at the local level? So then it will cost us more in judgements. Good thing the state and local governments have so much money laying around, huh?
Speaking of which, anyone care to guess how many wrongful arrest lawsuits will be filed in the next year or two? After all, if UUW/AUUW is unconstitutional, anyone who was convicted of breaking it has a legitimate claim...
I wish I could say that the Machine is going to regret not passing a decent law when they had the chance... But then again, it's not their money, is it?
If there is no constitutional carry law on the books, wouldn't illinois just revert to the status of Vermont: no permit required, carrying a pistol is just like carrying a newspaper or a banana or any other inanimate object - totally unregulated?
I'm not getting hit with a lawsuit after that day. They can open-carry for all I care and I'll just wave "hello" to them. Carry on.
If your a resident of Boston, would you or would you not want the right to have a firearm in your house this morning to protect yourself and your family?
"Some people have even expressed the opinion that your FOID card becomes your permit..."
From NRA lobbyist Todd Vandermyde in a Q&A session yesterday with the Statehouse press corps:
"Q: What happens on June 9?
A: If nothing happens, the likelihood is that we're going to have a court injunction. And if you've got a valid FOID card, you're going to be able to carry a firearm in this state. The court won't write a carry law. They have a very specific purpose, and that is to find the UUW statute in the state of Illinois unconstitutional and issue an injunction against the state's enforcement of that law. That's the court's role in this. Then you might see some municipalities try to do their own thing but they are likely to face the same hurdles that the state has."
http://blogs.suntimes.com/politics/2013/04/nra_lobbyist_after_concealed-carry_votes_failure_i_dont_know_what_else_to_say.html
FOID should be banned. Why does Illinois require a card issued by the government (corrupt government) to exercise a Constitutional right? Where's the First Amendment card to speak freely or worship freely?
All these socialist leftist scum need to go. They are showing their hatred for the Constitution and our liberty.
Come June 10th, I WILL be carrying concealed. I apologize to the officers who arrest me for that but given the economy, I do need a better retirement plan as does my civil rights lawyer.
If you make arrest for UUW that is not involved in a crime ,get ready to loose you're home or bank account or both. Police have been put in the middle as usual, the hire ups the mayor ,governor ETC. do not care about what happens to you, just want to push their agenda. Don't let them hang you out to dry, they do not care. I think the court will step in and produce their version of CC if the state dosent comply.
"I think that Federal Judge should throw Quinn in jail on June 10th and keep him there until the General Assembly complies with the law."
4/19/2013 12:52:00 AM
If that should happen I hope they don't pass it till Potato Head is out of office.
Every law abiding citizen should strap a gun on there hip and exercise there right to bear arms in Illinois on June 5th.
Illinois will give illegals temp drivers licenses,will consider making a banned substance (marajuana)legal for medical purposes and will deny the tax paying law abiding citizens their CONSTITUATIONAL RIGHT (2nd amendment).
The 7th Circuit Court of Appeals has already outlined what they view is necessary for CC/OC laws, and following the 2nd circuit won't fit the bill.
The legislature doesn't have to pass a law, an injunction is granted by CA7, and viola!, IL has constitutional carry.
Maybe IL will be the new "free" state. Much more free than before.
I think that Federal Judge should throw Quinn in jail on June 10th and keep him there until the General Assembly complies with the law.
4/19/2013 12:52:00 AM
what, the madigans get a pass?
Guns For EVERYONE said...
"I thought that if the legislature didn't pass something by the deadline, the court was threatening to create their own CC law for the citizens of Illinois to follow until a new one could get passed?"
---------------
Nope - that's not the job of the courts. Theirs is to interpret the laws we have - and they have deemed UUW/AUUW to be unconstitutional.
What this means is that on June 9th, carrying a firearm will become LEGAL because there will no longer be anything on the books saying it is ILLEGAL - unless the ILGA puts a carry law in place before then.
Just like in WI before they passed their CCW law - the WI SA determined that since their State Constitution stated they had the RKBA, but they also had a law prohibiting concealed carry, therefore, open carry was legal by default.
I wonder how Zalewski voted ..... Ohhh wait
Worthless !
The machine has to protect there
Constituents, The crimanals, Not the law abiding citizen.
Ever notice around election time how certain reps/aldermans signs are in front of Drug /gangbangers homes.
Kind of makes you wonder......
Anyone know how Lipinski voted?
Havent looked into it much, but it would be interesting to get a list of the ones that are voting against a sensible CC and compare it to a list of how many of them have a valid FOID card.
BTW, why cant they just copy and paste any other 48 states (leaving out NY) CC laws. Too easy??
Officer....why did you arrest my client...knowing that CCW was legal under the appellate court ruling....what was your probable clause????
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
At this point the laws are unenforceable, and there will be effectively no laws at the state level restricting carrying of a firearm.
It is only a few sections of the AUUW and UUW act that are at issue in this case. 720 ILCS 5/21-6 would still apply because it was not challenged. And that would make meaningful carry difficult at best.
Legislation backed by the National Rifle Association and pushed by Rep. Brandon Phelps (D-Harrisburg) failed on a 64-45 roll call, with four voting present. The bill needed 71 votes to pass the House.
There are 118 reps. Only 109 actually voted one way or the other. That might be meaningful, or it might mean they were napping. It seems likely that Phelps was able to count to 71 before this vote, so he either knew it was going to fail, or wanted it to fail. Politics is a very strange business.
I feel for the police who will be put in the middle of all this
What police are in the middle of this? This is between the federal court and the state. Cops have no say at all in this. If it comes down to it, it will be like any other law found unconstitutional that can no longer be enforced.
I will be carrying everywhere on 9 June in the hope of hitting the UUW lottery.
Not only will I get at least one police pension, I can also 1983 the local policritters that passed said ordinance and start collecting those pensions as well.
Given all the existing Civil Rights case law (And the Ezell ruling which states the closer the activity to the basic right the stricter the scrutiny), there's a good chance I'll never work a day in my life, nor will my son !!!
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I'm not getting hit with a lawsuit after that day. They can open-carry for all I care and I'll just wave "hello" to them. Carry on.
4/19/2013 07:59:00 AM
Amen, Brother!
I hope that Ilinois does NOT pass a conceal-carry law, because it will be created to be as restrictive as possible.
With no law passed at all, the goofs in Springfield have defacto made concealed carry LEGAL for all adults, especially those who possess an FOID card.
I trust there will be no "hard-chargers" with no brains out there, still looking for a UUW C.B. number that will cost them well-deserved punitive damages for an un-Constitutional arrest...
JoeShmoe said...
"Havent looked into it much, but it would be interesting to get a list of the ones that are voting against a sensible CC and compare it to a list of how many of them have a valid FOID card."
You want an interesting list? Another bill that came up yesterday was HB1711, which would remove the exception allowing certain politicians to carry as "Conservators of the Peace". Compare the names of the reps who voted against HB997 yesterday with the names of the reps who voted against HB1711 just a couple of hours before - you'll find a lot of similarities.
Apparently carrying a gun is OK if you're one of the elite - it's just us peons that have to be stripped of our constitutional right to self-defense.
Everything falls short in Illinois. Can anyone tell me the last time this administration has done anything rite ?
the question is: will CPD arrest and charge citizens with valid FOID cards(or a FOID and a valid out of state permit too) after june 10? what happens to the constitution then? will they recognize it as part of their oath of office or just do what they are told?
Once we have open carry, I hope someone will challenge Chicago's new registration policy. It obstructs one by making them pay 200 bucks when you factor in the class, " discriminates against the poor" and If all I need is a FOID for open carry they are infringing on my civil and constitutional rights.
"Anita Alvarez has already stated that her office will continue to prosecute UUW even though it's been ruled unconstitutional, but it's the cops who will be hit with the Section 1983 lawsuits for civil rights violations."
Not if they don't make arrests for this charge.
Of course, we all know one or two dopes that will still be out there, making arrests for it...
An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.
Robert A. Heinlein
Question from a retired CPD: When the Fed Court declared the UUW statute unconstitutional, did the Department issue any sort of instructional directive (General/Special Order/Department Notice/Teletype) regarding proper action? Or did they just leave the rank and file on their own?
Or did they just leave the rank and file on their own?
4/20/2013 12:20:00 PM
do you really have to ask?
I will be carrying everywhere on 9 June in the hope of hitting the UUW lottery.
Not only will I get at least one police pension, I can also 1983 the local policritters that passed said ordinance and start collecting those pensions as well.
Given all the existing Civil Rights case law (And the Ezell ruling which states the closer the activity to the basic right the stricter the scrutiny), there's a good chance I'll never work a day in my life, nor will my son !!!
Sounds like you have it all figured out. If I were you I'd start spending all that money right now. It sounds so easy
I will be carrying everywhere on 9 June in the hope of hitting the UUW lottery.
Not only will I get at least one police pension, I can also 1983 the local policritters that passed said ordinance and start collecting those pensions as well.
Given all the existing Civil Rights case law (And the Ezell ruling which states the closer the activity to the basic right the stricter the scrutiny), there's a good chance I'll never work a day in my life, nor will my son !!!
The above post is the problem with this country. No one wants to work for a living, everyone wants to sue the working class folks because they are to lazy to work. Good example to your son you fool, show him how to be a lazy unproductive citizen like your self. You should be ashamed of your self.
Officer....why did you arrest my client...knowing that CCW was legal under the appellate court ruling....what was your probable clause????
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Simply put lawyers are the scum of this earth.
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