Wait a Minute....Fill the Jail?
- Drinking in public and then failing to pay the fine or contest it in court could land the offender in jail under a proposal from Mayor Rahm Emanuel that a City Council committee advanced Thursday.
The idea is to prevent further deterioration of communities where such behavior becomes common, police Deputy Chief Steve Georgas told aldermen at the Public Safety Committee meeting. More than half of people cited for public drinking, urinating or gambling fail to pay the fine or show up in court, he said.
"This sort of unchecked behavior will then lead to further disorder and can ultimately lead to other crimes such as solicitation, narcotics sales and gang loitering," Georgas said. "That is why it is imperative that we enforce these quality-of-life issues that are being ignored so the offenders realize their behavior will not be accepted by the community."
Under the proposal, set for a full council vote next week, people who fail to pay the fines or show up in court would be hit with a doubling of the maximum fines, which are $200 for gambling and $500 for public drinking and urination. Offenders also could be sentenced to up to six months in jail.
Don't get us wrong - we'd love to see more of these types of law breakers doing a few months in County, cleaning highways and just being off the street. But we see a lot of resistance from Preckwinkle and Dart. They'll plead poverty, overcrowding and racism in an instant. Then they'll demand that Rahm come up with some sort of cash plan to pay for the housing of these jagoffs. Then Rahm will pick our pockets in some way, shape or form instead of funding our pensions.
Anyone care to lay odds on it?
Anyone care to lay odds on it?
posted by SCC at 12:02 AM
56 Comments:
ANOV's are just a stat that the bosses love to look at. Everyone knows they never get paid.
Mail the fines to 1458 S Canal and they will pay them.
OT: re: "Levine Spanks Rahm and Garry"
Levine was kissing his and his brother's ass in a TV news commercial for his brother's book tonight.
I guess Levine is one of the tools Emanuel will use to launch McCarthy.
rb
Heres an idea! Lets release more burglars to house the drinkers, urinaters and gamblers! Then districts like 16 can be slammed with even MORE burglaries
Th court systeem is à joke. Dart is à Total politician.
This is a tact team's dream!
ANOV the parent or guardian of the wilders and if they don't pay jail them or boot their cars. Force them to control these kids
DEAD, DEAD, DEAD, Rahm! The cities economy is dead.
That Federal payroll tax cut of 2% expired Jan 2013 and now the state is feeling the pain from the associated Illinois State income tax increase from 3% to 5% that was used as a tool to steal peoples social security and deposit it into the Illinois treasury transferring the wealth.
The Feds payroll tax cut was a subsidty that funded the state income tax increase and now it's gone, gone, gone.
Other states went back to what their wages were in Jan 2011 when the Fed payroll tax break was first enacted plus any raises they may have recieved.
But Illinoians, heh, the politicians here thought they'd be slick and grabbed all that money before anyone could feel it in their paychecks.
But now the chickens come home to roost.
EX A. Chicago metro employment.
Note: the total number of people employed in the Chicago metro area hit a peak of 3,785,500 in Oct. 2012 and as of Feb 2013 is now 3,711,800.
That's a loss of 73,700 jobs my friends. Over half of all the job gains over the last year lost in just four months.
The number of people that we show as employed today, well we had first broken the Feb. numbers way back in 1997. Where did all the new entrants to the workforce go for the last 16 years?
Want more?
EX "B" llinois Home Foreclosures Top National Average
By Angela Sykora and Morgan Delack
Illinois home foreclosure activity is four times the national average, reports Chicago Real Estate Daily.
Data reflects nearly 138,000 homes in Illinios were in "foreclosure inventory" at the end of the first quarter, 36 percent higher than the same period last year, according to the story. The highest increase was in the number of pre-foreclosure homes pending repossession, reported Chicago Real Estate Daily
That 2% tax increase on Jan 2013 is pushing people over the edge. That's how tight ppl's budgets are.
Wages have not kept up with Illinois 66% state income tax increase, 87% Tollway increases, 800% downtown parking increases, 200% CTA fare increases and the assorted doubling and tripling of a litany of Rahm fines, fees, licenses and taxes.
Want more?
EX "C" Philly Fed study: Illinois one of just two contracting states
Illinois unemployment rate is 9.5% Chicago's is 10.3%
Illinois median wage is $56,576 (2007-11 census)
Chicago's median wage is $47,371 (2007-11 census) About $9,000 less wages.
It's Chicago sucking the life out of the state.
Chicago - persons below poverty level, 21.4% percent, 2007-2011
Illinois Persons below poverty level, percent, 13.1% 2007-2011
And Illinois Food Stamp caseloads are up 9.1% vs the prior year. Over 2 million people in Illinois and I'll bet they are concentrated in Chicago. Just look at the US census data showing the number of people in poverty. Also notice the dates. Things are NOT getting better.
It was obvious, from watching the panel discussion on Chicago Tonight a couple days ago, that Dart and Preckwinkle do not consult, do not work together on issues and could not agree that the sun was shining today. And it's likely their relationship with Emanuel is much the same.
So, Rahm makes his dictatorial plans and doesn't feel the need to share them with Preckwinkle or Dart. No surprise there.
Fucking hilarious, you wanna make that joke kangaroo hearing court on Superior actually count now. You had a run on fleecing all these citizens with bullshit fines and collecting the money and running with those who were dumb enough to show up and pay. Now the city realizes the ones who blew off all those fines were really smarter than the ones who showed up. McNitwit told us at headquarters he was gonna put investigative alerts for those who don't show up. Better add more Dicks!!!!
Ban all the things.
If the mayor would ban alcohol and shut down all the bars many of these quality of life problems would go away if his administration is so worried about it.
We wouldn't have people drinking on the streets.
Wait until Rahm get's his casino. See what the quality of life is around that place with babies left in the car while they go in to play the slots. Drunks, bucket beaters, beggars. Why would they go there? Because that's where the money is.
On the other hand wouldn't installing port-a-potties be cheaper?
Nice diversion tho. Get's people talking about little bullshit crimes instead of the murders and the clearance rate. Get's the attention of the failures and onto something that they think they can control and show good numbers for at the compstats.
Boost moral too.
The foot solidiers get a sense of accomplishment by locking up the weak. No offense intended but it is what it is. We all get frustrated with this circle-jerk, right. Contact card just don't get it.
On the downside...
Once we get all these people into the system it will seal the deal on the hopes of them ever becoming participating members in our society.
I mean if there was any hope at all.
Yeah I know, I know..who am I kidding. Maybe I should of used the political b.s. of "if it helps just one child, just one than isn't it worth it"..haha.
F**K it... pile on the rap sheet and give them their life membership LINK card. Ain't no employer gonna hire them but the black market economy is still open.
Can we trade sheriff dart for sheriff joe arpaio?
As much as I hate all of them, it is a good thing..Look at 024...Then look at 004..Look at 020..then look at 002..It is enforcement..Emd of story...If all of the coppers knew that giving them an ANOV woould result in a warrant later, they would do it..there are some that need the arrest, but others would stop..I do not work downtown, but believe that if all ANOVS ended in arrest, it would help a bit...That is what used to happen before the lawsuit in 2001...That's why we have the ANOV Order about arresting people for city charges..if there is an arrest for the ticket, it will help..Yes, im a moron/
But if the drinkers are off the streets who will the tact teams lock up?!
...didn't Dart just say that the jails are almost full???? I am sure that was just a few weeks ago.
Off topic but not really: My job is one that can take me to all parts of the City or Suburbs. Yesterday I had the "pleasure" of visiting a house at 5100 W. Jackson and literally saw 6 different Police cars within 2 minutes simply patrolling. It didn't occur to me until later that I have NEVER seen that many cars in the decent neighborhoods. I can only assume that standing on corners generates far more tax revenue than an actual job, hence allowing the City to provide law enforcement services thusly.
Cannot squeeze blood from a turnip.
Rham is going to deflect all his problems onto someone else and in this case he can blame Grady{Toni},Dart&that attorney with that greasey hair.
Aww so no mo dice games???
That's rascist!!!
It makes a good headline and mcMotormouth gets to preach at Sabina about it. But it will never happen. It's racist.
Arrest them in the first place - like we did before the stupid ANOV - and this becomes a moot issue. What asshats.
a university of nonsense study proves that throwing dice into snaking streams of urine promotes all mannor of violence including use of assault weapons.
remember, its for the children.
http://www.newswithviews.com/community_policing/community_policing.htm This is an article written in 2001 by a Detective Phil Worts. "...Note the reference to the “common good,” the ever-present ideal in the communist state. Individual rights become subordinated to the so-called greater good. This raises serious concern over the role of the police officer in society as a “partner” with community groups and social service programs, which, due to the blurring of lines of responsibility, are unaccountable to the public (voters)..." Perhaps you will read this.
One word (TENTS).
Throwing people in jail for offenses not originally subject to jail time led to lawsuits and big losses for the City and a total change in enforcement in the mid 1980's.
In the early to mid 1980's CPD could, and did, jail people who failed to pay their fines for parking tickets and traffic offenses, (moving violations.) Arrest warrants for not coming to court landed many people in Cook County Jail. These were the regular miscreants but also citizens who ignored the dozens of letters they got.
One of them was a lawyer and he filed a class action. And he won.
The ruling was that the City could not toss anyone in jail for an offense that did not include jail time in the original penalty.
Overnight all the traffic warrants became non-serviceable. Same with arrest warrants for contempt of court for parking ticket no-shows and mover no-shows. (Parking tickets were returnable to Traffic Court before the ruling. People went in front of a judge.)
After the lawsuit/ruling they could be housed only for offenses that were jailable in the first place, DUI (misdemeanor) reckelss homicide, drag racing, reckless driving etc.
It took a few years for the City to rewrite the code to get enforcement. That led to administrative enforcement of parking tickets and the rest. Actually that led to better collection because then the City got bonafide collection agencies after people.
So if Rahm suceeds in passing this, obviously no one remembers why we do it this way, there will be more lawsuits and it will be changed back again.
Past is prologue, it happened before so it will likely happen again. And they won't be asking me, I am retired but I recall those day but no one ever asks me. We didn't even finger print DUI's then.
Somewhere there is a law firm that remembers, I guarantee, and they are licking their chops at the chance for some more litigation.
So go ahead Rahm, make their day. Lawyers have car payments and tuition payments and vacations to take. Someone has to pay, might as well be the City of Chicago. The City is easy pickings for a sharp lawyer. And in a few years someone will dig out the old court case and say something like "Jesus H. Christ, didn't anyone remember about this old lawsuit?"
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"
George Santayana
Preckwinkle is on record as saying the County is too full of "people of color". She can't have it both ways
YEAH OK.
Chuckle. Chuckle. Chuckle. Like Georgas actually knows something.
County is full of criminals, the president and whole board.Along w/ the sheriff etc. etc.
They should just start with the 1000's of narcotics cases that are thrown out because the amount of weight is to low. The BS findings of no probable cause by the judge since the amount of weed or crack is to little even though probable cause is a slam dunk, if you think about it the amount of crap that goes on in the county criminal courts should keep the news media of this city busy with great news materiel for years but what you always see is powder puff pieces. As for fines, find them $5000 for an offense, if you don't follow through with slapping them with a warrant what does the amount of fine matter. I hate this place but where can I go.
Unbelievable, isn't this what the police used to do long ago? We were told to stop picking on the poor souls just because they were drinking, loitering, pissing and creating disturbances all night. Now miraculously a few bosses think they have come up with a new strategy? Get out of here with that bull. We do not need the downtown gold stars at all. All we need are a few good sergeants on the street and a W/C to sign our paperwork. Let policeman do police work. Every one else can go home.
What is the problem, the jail is empty and the budgets are fat because small amounts of marijuana get tickets, right?
Don't send them to Cook County, build fenced in pens with tents and let'em spend a week at a time in their eating potatos and stale bread. Giv'em brooms and shovels to clean up streets and allies.
No, wait. That's inhumane.
Leave'm on the street to kick the shit out of people.
Oh tiny been peeking at Ralph Giuliani's playbook again. Isn't this " Broken Windows" strategies again? Isn't the " theory you get pulled off the street even for a little while it prevents other crime from happening?
Here's a brainstorm. Dock the link and SSI when they don't pay. They'l learn real quick and they cant blame anybody else but themselves. They are living life as if on a paid lifetime vacation anyways.
The courts don't do anything to physical arrests so why would they jail someone for not paying a DPW ANOV? The courts give shitheads free lawyers and never fine them. The court goes out of their way to not punish anyone. Hell, they even supena the lab tach.'s for DELIVERY of cannabis and when they don't show they toss the case. 90% of all cases are tossed out with no penelty. How could the court expect these fools to pay $150 fines? They have nothing. In the end this will be up to the court and we all know how they operate.
So Little Stevie is rehashing the tired old broken windows lines ...... Way to kiss that NY ass, Stevie!
"Boost moral too.
"The foot solidiers get a sense of accomplishment by locking up the weak. No offense intended but it is what it is. We all get frustrated with this circle-jerk, right. Contact card just don't get it."
4/05/2013 01:32:00 AM
...and neither do you.
"The CTA is scrambling..."
The clouted six-figured so-called best and brightest this city has in charge couldn't bring in a project on time and under budget to save their souls.
By Jon Hilkevitch Tribune reporter
7:16 a.m. CDT, April 5, 2013
With a five-month shutdown of the Red Line’s south branch set to begin in mid-May, the CTA is scrambling to complete almost $20 million in track and station improvements on the southern Green Line, which will be counted on to serve thousands of additional riders daily, officials said Thursday.
What a shame! All the train routes from the Englewood to downtown just may be cut off should both the Green and Red lines be cut off. heh, how'd that happen?
Enough with bashing tact teams already... Who cares what/who they lock up. Sounds like you are just a jealous little boy who wishes he could work plain clothes.
And Illinois Food Stamp caseloads are up 9.1% vs the prior year. Over 2 million people in Illinois and I'll bet they are concentrated in Chicago. Just look at the US census data showing the number of people in poverty. Also notice the dates. Things are NOT getting better.
-------------------------------------
and today we learn from the Chicago Trib that:
Local employers warn of almost 1,400 job cuts
and..
Peoria-based Caterpillar laying off 460 workers.
Ha... Caterpillar has joined hands with the mayor and with Motorola on the mayors Immigration Coalition team to demand more immigrant workers.
Caterpillar CEO wants more visas for engineers, path to citizenship ...
www.sctimes.com/.../Caterpillar-CEO-wants-more-visas-engineers-pat...
1 day ago – The chief executive at Caterpillar Inc. says he wants more visas for ... said in a speech at the Illinois Business Immigration Coalition, in Chicago
More of the same "we can't find the skilled workers" bullshit. 10.3% unemployment in Chicago. Manufacturing jobs down from over 550K positions to about 350K and there's no qualified candidates in there? Bullshit!
Also... the Puerto Ricans can't even afford to have their annual parade downtown anymore!!
Not a good sign for crime or the main stream economy.
The so-called Best and Brightest from the ivy league universities with the higher math and science scores running this main stream economy are unwilling or unable to create jobs, leverage the current workforce for profits by putting these people in jobs...but you know what? The undergound economy will fill that vaccuum. The black market will have positions to enable them a chance at making a better life for themselves.
Not encouraging it. It is what it is that's all. Nature abhores a vaccuum.
WE'RE NUMBER ONE!
Whoa, would you check it out. The new Food Stamp Caseload Report is out!
Illinois Food Stamp caseloads are up 11.5% Jan 2013 vs Jan 2012. The largest percentage increase of any other state.
Wonder how many of the 70,000 Chicago jobs lost in Feb. will show up in next months numbers?
RULE OF 72.
To find out how long it takes money to double at a certain compound interest rate there is this method called the Rule of 72 which can provide a real close estimate. The way it works is that you divide the interest rate into the number 72.
For example at a 9% interest rate 72/9 == 8 so your money will double in 8 years.
Well we can also use this math to project food stamp caseloads should the 11.5% increase continue each year forward to see when the caseloads will double.
72/11.5 == 6.17 years.
At the current rate of growth we could double Illinois Food Stamp caseloads in 6.17 years. That would mean over 4 million people on them. The equiv of well over the entire population of Chicago. The state of Illinois population is about 12 million. The BLS recorded that Illinois had 6,641,200 people employed in Feb 2013.
Let me see if I understand this: ANOVs need an ordinance to make failure to pay arrestable via warrant. So, IF they don't pay and IF we grab them a SECOND time, we can lock them up, get them off the street, and preserve "quality of life." However, right now, drinkers, pissers, and gamblers can be physically arrested on the FIRST offense, getting them off the street but somehow NOT preserving "quality of life." Am I the only one this makes no sense to?
In the early to mid 1980's CPD could, and did, jail people who failed to pay their fines for parking tickets and traffic offenses, (moving violations.) Arrest warrants for not coming to court landed many people in Cook County Jail. These were the regular miscreants but also citizens who ignored the dozens of letters they got.
One of them was a lawyer and he filed a class action. And he won.
The ruling was that the City could not toss anyone in jail for an offense that did not include jail time in the original penalty.
Overnight all the traffic warrants became non-serviceable. Same with arrest warrants for contempt of court for parking ticket no-shows and mover no-shows. (Parking tickets were returnable to Traffic Court before the ruling. People went in front of a judge.)
After the lawsuit/ruling they could be housed only for offenses that were jailable in the first place, DUI (misdemeanor) reckelss homicide, drag racing, reckless driving etc.
*******
I recently had to deal with the first case of a warrant issued for someone's arrest for not payuing an ANOV. Nobody knew what to do. County sent the guy back saying it was a civil matter. Now what? The city's answer was to charge the guy with a violation of a city code for Failure to Appear for a Hearing MCC 1-4-145 I think (numbers may be off). Of course, he was I bonded since he had no money. What did we just accomplish? NOTHING!
The Interrupter said...
IAD wants nothing to do with IPRA in its current form
Tio Hardiman is one of the biggest liars and thieves infesting Chicago . He was caught lying on a couple of police bosses and got slapped down for it. Hardiman support a bond reduction for a major drug dealer implicated in five murders in Roseland but now IPRA touts him as a protector of civilian rights?
Ceasefire employs murderers drug dealers and felons who do nothing but steal money from the city and lie about it. CPD has tons of documented
proof of this which should be making its way to the US attorneys office.
IPRA and their idiot administrator, like Ladner is getting sued for the multitude of falsified
investigations . A class action is pending.
The fact that IPRA would pair up with Ceasefire,
A organization of convicted felons led by a compulsive manipulative liar who employs the daughter of nationwide gang leader Jeff Fort , does not lend any legitimacy to IPRA or its mandate.
The mayor and Supt has not seen any real street violence yet. Police officers are going to shut down this summer and let the city go up for grabs.
IPRA will try to fire a officer for failing to answer allegation s but will partner with a group that outwardly tells the media that they would not divulge info on shootings they have personally witnessed?
There is something really foul going on between IPRA ,Ceasefire and the city.
4/05/2013 02:28:00 AM
Exactly! So the department is more concerned about DPW and urination tickets, but it's ok to smoke rock or weed on the public way? because nearly 100% of these cases are tossed out of court in less than a minuet of them being called. Why would the court care about lesser offenses if they don't care about narcotics cases? This place is one big living contradiction.
What is the problem with people on the west and south side. Always peeing in the alleys and in doorways. I think they have a bladder issue out there.
Is it the pints of cheap wine causing this.
No fine and No Jail, it is a health issue.
Those are all ordinance offenses, which are nonjailable offenses,the county won't take them.
Remember the 80's well with the warrants for parking tickets from CPD. I had a guy stopped for stupidness on a major holiday out by Schaumburg. He had parking warrants. CPD wagon came out and got him.
Had another one with a warrant out of Elgin for NO CITY STICKER. They came and got him too. The good old days before non-servicable warrants.
****
Overnight all the traffic warrants became non-serviceable. Same with arrest warrants for contempt of court for parking ticket no-shows and mover no-shows. (Parking tickets were returnable to Traffic Court before the ruling. People went in front of a judge.)
After the lawsuit/ruling they could be housed only for offenses that were jailable in the first place, DUI (misdemeanor) reckelss homicide, drag racing, reckless driving etc.
*******
I recently had to deal with the first case of a warrant issued for someone's arrest for not payuing an ANOV. Nobody knew what to do. County sent the guy back saying it was a civil matter. Now what? The city's answer was to charge the guy with a violation of a city code for Failure to Appear for a Hearing MCC 1-4-145 I think (numbers may be off). Of course, he was I bonded since he had no money. What did we just accomplish? NOTHING!
4/05/2013 03:58:00 PM
An ANOV is an administrative notice. If the guy ignores it and fails to show for his hearing there are additional penalties, the fines double, it goes to a bill collector etc. If there is a vehicle impounded, it stays impounded and the fines grow until the City takes ownership of the vehicle.
That is it. I the person is a citizen, eventually the City gets their money, if the person is a mutt, well you can't get blood from a rock. Even then, if they ever get anything the City can attach, the City will try to get their dough.
That's all, if you throw someone in jail for a fine only ANOV you might get sued. If there is no jail time originally that is it, they just keep piling on the fines.
If it is a traffic offense they suspend the drivers license and suspend license plates etc. Like the mutt in New Jersey who won Powerball and had to pay back $29,000 in child support, sometimes they get a windfall, mostly not.
That guy with Powerball millions. He will not suddenly turn into a Harvard graduate. He is still a dog ass mutt. Look for him to get killed, shot, arrested or be found overdosed in some gutter.
This is the same department that was supposed to come up with a list every 3 months (now I'm talking quite a few years ago), so watch commanders would know who was ineligible to be released to work after a brief sickness at the district level, and would have to be released from the medical section.
Guess how many 3 month lists were ever generated?!?!?!. Never saw 1!
And now they're going to keep track of who hasn't paid an ANOV, and put this into a database? And a judge is supposed to believe it? And give someone jail time?
Puhleeeze !
How come the Chief of Patrol didn't speak to the council members and Georgas did? I don't know, something fishy going on.
I would not trust Steve with a ten foot pole.
They are living life as if on a paid lifetime vacation anyways.
4/05/2013 10:53:00 AM
You nailed it!
Yes, im a moron/
4/05/2013 02:30:00 AM
Why, yes, yes you are.
Take the link card or suspension of link card benefits until the judgement is satisfied. Get some of that free money back. Slapem where it hurts, "In the LINK card".
How can they pay? and why should they? It's my money to begin with so basically we are playing a sick little game here. Make them pay? These animals won't even raise their own children, what makes you think locking then up would make them pay? It's like a family reunion at 26cal for them anyway. Stupid, shouldn't have given them freebies in the first place.
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