Thursday, November 21, 2013

Concealed Carry Training

Has anyone seen how they're going to train 10,000 cops in Chicago sometime? The law takes effect on 01 January 2014, but given the bureaucratic delays and built-in-slow-pace of processing expected, the permits will be delayed until April at the earliest.

So, the training is on the schedule for....when?
  • When Illinois residents begin carrying concealed handguns legally next year, law enforcement officers will have to be ready for a "sea change" in how they conduct traffic and street stops, officials said Wednesday as they announced a new police training program they hope will help prevent potentially fatal mistakes.

    Illinois, the last state to allow concealed carry, is expected to begin issuing permits in April under a law that goes into effect on the first of the year. Traffic stops already are among the most dangerous activities for officers, and throwing newly legalized handguns into the mix could have tragic consequences, officials said.

    "As soon as you see someone move (and) they have a gun, all of a sudden things get really crazy in a hurry," Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart told reporters at a news conference. "What we're attempting to do is get out in front of this."
Because Dart made so many traffic stops in his career. In fact, he makes 10 or 20 a day now just to keep in practice, right? And he can't wait to paint those who chose to exercise their Right as out-of-control and crazy. And the head of the Illinois Law Enforcement Training and Standards Board isn't helping much:
  • "We want to stress that these could be law-abiding citizens who are now carrying these weapons and that the initial reaction of the law enforcement officer must be a little more savvy in approaching someone so that the public itself is treated with respect," [Kevin] McClain said.

    McClain said there could be more arrests for disorderly conduct or obstruction for citizens who don't cooperate.

    "Police officers are going to have to show a lot of restraint," he said. "You might get people that are carrying the weapon legally that get obnoxious with a law enforcement officer."
Um, aren't we supposed to treat the public with respect anyway? And restraint? For the most part, being obnoxious with the police isn't against the law, so being obnoxious with the police while legally carrying a gun isn't always illegal either.

An educated police force is our best bet here. And an educated public. We'd certainly hope that the requisite 16 hours of citizen training covered something about the citizens' duty to avoid confrontation with the police, exercise restraint and their legal obligations while carrying a weapon. We still haven't heard when we're getting some training - and not just a 10 minute video at roll call. This is kind of important.

We'll repeat what we've contended for years - over 99% of the Concealed Carry permit people will never have interaction with the police. You'll never see them or their weapons, because these aren't the people out there driving like assholes, domesticating in the street, buying dope around town, robbing strangers, wilding downtown, etc, etc. You will see them if they are forced to exercise their Right in defense of their lives or the lives of another, and in those cases, there are going to be plenty of cops and detectives there, with plenty of bosses running around telling us all what to do (wrongly no doubt.) Cops in 49 other states seem to handle this with few problems, and we're pretty sure we're as smart as most of them.

Labels:

88 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

They're undoubtedly putting together a streaming video right now.

Isn't that how we get all of our "training" these days?

11/21/2013 12:23:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have complete faith in CPD as well as most suburban departments. There will be a few assholes that think its cool and will make sure they get stopped. But most good citizens who carry will probably never make contact with you guys. And if they do in a traffic stop I think you will find people who are decently trained and courteous to you. Most of us are as concerned about your welfare out there as much as we are about our own. But an asshole will be an asshole and will probably be treated like one if need be. If I treat officers with respect, I am certain respect will be returned. I for one will hand you my license and permit so there are no surprises. Even if the law states I have to inform only when asked. No need to make a traffic stop any more than a simple situation. We all want to go home safe.

11/21/2013 12:26:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Cops in 49 other states seem to handle this with few problems, and we're pretty sure we're as smart as most of them."

Yes, we're smart enough. The trouble is, our elected officials don't believe that those they are elected to serve are smart enough to employ a firearm to protect themselves, otherwise Illinois wouldn't have been the last state in the union to pass this legislation.

Even now that it's passed, you can bet these assholes have all kinds of monkey wrenches that they plan to throw into the works so that citizens are left defenseless.

11/21/2013 12:29:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


they would just love a tragedy.

martyr a citizen or an officer to create a crisis and then use that crisis to say 'i told you so'

crisis's and fear when used properly you can get things done that the masses would never agree to normally like giving up your own rights to protect yourself,

they're just dying for something bad to happen. i'll bet the next law is already written just waiting...

11/21/2013 12:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Our communist politicians hate the Constitution and the Second Amendment in particular. It reminds them that the people have the power in America. Until they vote it away for chains and slavery as they have in the last couple of elections.

11/21/2013 01:18:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just hope that Officers are very careful in the handling of certain weapons such as the 1911 style pistol carried whats known as "cocked and locked". Thats a 4 pound trigger folks, be extra careful ! Some of these can be tuned down to dangerously light trigger pulls in the name of accuracy. Be very aware of this if you have to handle one. Yes you are going to see folks walking around with these old school guns.

11/21/2013 01:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dart is an embarrassment to law enforcement. A life long political hack lawyer, pretending to be the police. This fool has appointed a bevy of his fellow polictical lawyer pals to high law enforcement positions in the sheriff's office and the county Jail. Some actually have no duiest at all but all collect big checks as "bosses". Vote this fool out of office! PS. He positively hates the police!

11/21/2013 01:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Keep it in the holster and it cant hurt you. And keep it concealed properly so others dont get big ideas, such as knocking you out and taking yours. You are responsible for every round in that weapon and any damage done by them.

11/21/2013 01:38:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OT: who's the straight up hair gel on zone ten always got something smart to say that's got nothing to do with them? You think dispatchers have enough nonsense to listen to?

11/21/2013 02:07:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Police officers are going to have to show a lot of restraint," he said. "You might get people that are carrying the weapon legally that get obnoxious with a law enforcement officer."

Um, aren't we supposed to treat the public with respect anyway? And restraint? For the most part, being obnoxious with the police isn't against the law, so being obnoxious with the police while legally carrying a gun isn't always illegal either.

--take it easy SCC. You know what he was implying and your smart ass comment takes what he was saying out of context.

11/21/2013 02:21:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm glad 499 had us watch the role playing of traffic stops and street stops which he would direct and the officers would act. It was for our safety. No one really agreed with what he was saying but we did watch because of the fear of losing our midnight spots in 004. After finding out that the whole 1st watch hated him he hasn't done roll call much. Leave the good sergeants alone and do your own dirty work douche bag.


11/21/2013 02:23:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have had a Texas Concealed Handgun License for a little over 14 years and I have been pulled over for speeding twice in that time. It works like this, you hand the officer your DL and CHL He asks if you are carrying and you politely say "yes officer". The Texas State Trooper asked me what I was carrying and we got into a conversation about why I preferred a 9mm over a 40. He gave me a warning ticket and we went on our way. When a city cop pulled me over we went through the same drill. We were polite, he gave me a ticket for 10 MPH over and we went on our way. No one got excited, and everyone was polite. I have been stopped numerous times near the border at temporary immigration checkpoints, same thing. In Texas you are required to show your CHL and DL together, no big deal. Also, in Texas there are well over a million law abiding people carrying concealed, again no big deal. We are polite and LEOs are polite. That is the way it should be, Yes, there are shoot outs arising out of traffic stops down, but they are not coming from folks with a CHL.
I don't see what the big problem is?
Concealed carry in Texas.

11/21/2013 02:27:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

...and in Wauconda, where a bullet warrants lockdown of a school, locker search with canines, etc, they are likely preparing their "Lockdown Preparations" in the event that a person lawfully carrying a handgun is encountered.

11/21/2013 05:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

...and now we hear from a veteran and expert civilian, Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart: "As soon as you see someone move (and) they have a gun, all of a sudden things get really crazy in a hurry," Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart told reporters at a news conference. "What we're attempting to do is get out in front of this."

Please, someone to a FOIA request for the number of documented traffic stops initiated and completed by Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart. Inquiring minds want to know about his vast experience....and knowledge.

11/21/2013 05:52:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have the class that gets you the Utah & Florida permits and part of the class was what to do when your pulled over. Keep your hands on the wheel and inform the officer "I have a concealed carry permit. How would you like to proceed"? and go from there. Dont blurt out "I have a gun" and act like an asshole. Thats how ya get shot.


Stay safe

11/21/2013 06:07:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Does Sheriff Fart ever conduct a smidge of research before he opens his mouth?

I am from Tennessee, and most everyone seems to be packing down there. Amazingly, traffic incidents with law abiding citizens with CC permits never "get crazy".

You'd think this guy would grow tired of embarassing himself. But, I guess not.

11/21/2013 07:01:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As one of those crazy, wild-eyed Illinois civilians who will be carrying concealed the day I receive my concealed carry permit, I felt compelled to respond to this thread and, as usual, SCC, you are absolutely spot on!

The last time I had any contact with police was in 1987 when I was pulled over for speeding - I was speeding and he was professional and courteous and gave me a pass. 1987. Yes, 1987.

Oh wait, I did flag down a suburban officer in 2010 when my dog got out of the yard and the officer, who (I found out later) was actually on his way home AFTER his tour, spent the better part of an hour helping me locate the pooch. A Starbucks gift card and a 'Thank You' note went to this officer - it may sound insignificant but for me, his assistance was above and beyond.

My point is, you won't have to deal with me. I don't get into altercations, I don't use illegal drugs, I don't drive drunk, high or recklessly, I don't take things that don't belong to me and I don't victimize other human beings. I go to work every day and go home every night.

And, if I ever do have to use deadly force against anyone who tries to harm myself or a loved one, chances are very good that you won't have to deal with me then either because I will not be hanging around.

11/21/2013 07:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The only thing Dart is doing here is preparing for a future press release praising himself. Now he talks about how "crazy" it will get so he "orders" new training for police. When it turns out that law-abiding, gun-carrying citizens are not going crazy or the police aren't going crazy shooting them, Dart praises himself for having the foresight to train the police. Then more demo-rats bow down and praise him like all the stuffed martian-space-toys did to Sid-the-evil-neighbor-kid in "Toy Story".

11/21/2013 07:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The IllinoisCarry.com curriculum for concealed carry has a video from Massad Ayoob where he addresses the issue of encounters with police. We also use the famous "Chris Rock - How not to get your ass kicked by the police!" sketch which covers that material in a more light-hearted manner. Ayoob, of course is deadly serious, as befits the premier handgun trainer, but the Chris Rock youtube video covers the same ground and makes the same points. The civilian CCW training community is very concerned with the potential for bad outcomes in encounters with police, especially in light of certain comments by highly placed individuals like Tom Dart and McStreetlight.

11/21/2013 07:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Most of us are as concerned about your welfare out there as much as we are about our own.
===========
Speak for yourself.

In a very general way, I wish only good things for other decent human beings, but I am far more concerned about my own welfare than anyone else's.

not a cop

11/21/2013 07:52:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

They could have made the whole academy a streaming video ! Six months of quality day dreaming !

11/21/2013 07:55:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Once concealed carry goes into affect, it's a whole other ball game. To the citizens I say this to you. If you get stopped by the police, show your hands. If it's a traffic stop, keep your hands on the steering wheel and when the officers tells you why he stopped you, tell him politely that you have a firearm (the exact location on your body) and you are reaching into your back pocket or front right pocket for your wallet with drivers license. If you get stopped in a street stop, NEVER start digging your hands into your pockets or back or waistband.

Thank you and I am a 110% supporter of concealed carry. I don't like to see good people become victims of violent crime. I want to see more good guys carry guns than bad guys.

11/21/2013 07:56:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As you said it works in 49 other states so IL will figure it out. Good guys don't pull their weapon unless their life is in immediate danger. I have carried for 30 plus years, am a law abiding citizen and please God will never have the need to pull my weapon. So worry about the repeat felons and the thugs who have no respect for human life or LE.
Michael S___.

11/21/2013 08:14:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree that cpd needs to have additional training with the new law. This is a game changer and the department will need to be prepared for it. But like anything doing with the cpd it will fail and be put into a special bulletin and on e learning for po's to click through to the end to finish the training. Think of this, when we respond to an alarm call and the homeowner is armed and dispatch doesn't notify us of the gun. And we roll up on the owner thinking he's the bad guy and it goes from there. I agree that we need conceal carry but we need the training to deal with the armed citizen or it will be the "ok corral"

11/21/2013 08:18:00 AM  
Blogger Mr. SouthSide said...

I don't always agree with SCC and even though he censors me a lot (and in most cases rightfully so), he is dead on with this one (pun happily intended).

We deal with fools every day. Most of these fools won't be able to get the permits and if one of these fools carries illegally, we will deal with it accordingly.

11/21/2013 08:20:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Only in Illinois!!!! When I travel outside The Republic of Crook County to a State like Idaho where I have friends,the cops out there are not giant snatches like they are here.

Officers need to realize that its a RIGHT and liberty to own carry a weapon. Also cops need to get off there high horse and realize that they are not all that well trained.

Civvies I know have way more firearms training than officers and are way better shots.

11/21/2013 08:28:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dart's depiction is spot on, as demonstrated by the daily stories in the media in all those other states in the country where citizens certified for CCW are causing an epidemic of deadly chaos between CCW citizens and the police.

sarcasm/off

My CCW training emphasized in the strongest terms the awesome responsibility of CCW.

It emphasized at the outset of any interaction with police to tell officer/s I am carrying and to present my permit (although odly in IL the law states you need only do that when asked); it emphasized to never say the word "gun"; and when interacting with a police officer, to make it my business to keep both palms of my hands open and in clear view of the officer as he or she is going about their business; it emphasized to not make sudden moves; to explicitly follow instructions of the officer; and, in those instances where I have fired the firearm in self-defense, where the threat is netrualized, to immediately call the police, tell them who I am, give a description of what I am wearing, tell them I am armed and that I have placed the gun on the ground, to describe exactly where I am and to wait for the police to arrive; to be prepared, once on the scene, the police will be in a hyper-sensitive, take control mode, treating everyone as a threat, until they have taken over the scene -- so don't do anything to cause me to be shot; to be prepared to possibly be taken to the ground forcefully and to not resist.

Oh, yea, and the next first thing after calling the police, call my lawyer; remember in the course of the initial events, after the shooting, to respectfully say -- nothing -- about what happened, beyond being attacked & in fear of deadly harm and to state that I will give a statement -- after I have spoken to my lawyer.

No matter how much the police say or I much I may feel they are there to help me, say nothing about the circumstances except to the extent I acted in self-defense; to call next a go-to friend prepared to support me (follow-up with putting a fire under lawyer, supporting family, etc.) in the event such an unfortunate event should occur, because, from there on out, my life got colossally more complicated and costly.

Mr. Dart, for the most part, citizens who will be carrying will not be bent on hot dogging it. We take this Right more diligently then the shitbirds that shoot up the city.

By and large, citizens will be RESPONSIBLY exercising their right to protect themselves, their families and their neighbors in an increasingly dangerous city where police are less and less capable of being where needed, when needed.

There will not be scores and scores of civilian, McCarthy-ite lushes shooting out street lights or shooting each other over budding in line or on account of a pedestrian being pushed across the crosswalk by the encroachment of the grill of a taxi cab.

Will some idiot citizens do stupid, damaging and in some cases deadly acts that destroy families? Yes, but overall, crime will go down and random acts of stupidity that result in innocents being severely injured will be greatly reduced.

Facts in the majority of the states that have CCW prove that out.

No matter how much you wish to brainwash us Mr. Dart., the right to CCW, an armed society, makes for a polite society.

11/21/2013 08:33:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"As soon as you see someone move (and) they have a gun, all of a sudden things get really crazy in a hurry," Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart told


Dart is such a dork. He's a lawyer not a cop. Get out of here hack

11/21/2013 08:38:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And armed society is a polite society.

11/21/2013 08:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What are the chances my IN permit will be valid in IL? I certainly will feel safer when I can carry when visiting my relatives still stuck in the city.

11/21/2013 08:50:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Alaska does it right, and you don't even need a permit to carry there.
If you are pulled over, or in any altercation with Police, the first thing they will ask is if you are armed.
If they are running your name, need to detain you, then they will remove your weapon until they are done. I have no issue with that.

If you just happen on an officer, and you are not a suspect. The Officer says nothing.
I'm quite sure he/she is observing the person to see if they can detect whether one is armed, but they rarely ask since the 4th Amendment protects you in that scenario.
Even if they do ask, you can refuse questions, or simply say yes, and the officer still can't remove the weapon from you.
The respect is so awesome there on this subject!

The criminal element for the most part don't carry.
They know that average Joe citizen there not only knows how to properly shoot, but skin a quarter meat too!
:)

11/21/2013 09:11:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Damn that's good writing. You hit it all. Throw away the manuals, just have us read SSC

11/21/2013 09:13:00 AM  
Anonymous We are Anonymous said...

SCC you tend to forget this is Chicago where nothing is normal. There will be plenty of assholes with CCP who are going to do shit to get themselves in trouble. I have already seen it. Hell I have seen plenty of POs who shouldn't be allowed to carry. I am all for CC but for you to think the city and county don't have a reason to worry about the mishaps that will occur during the transition period is ridiculous.

11/21/2013 09:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've had an out of state permit for years and carried legally in other states. I can give you guys ALL the training you need to deal with CCW holders.

YOU DO EXACTLY WHAT YOU'VE BEEN DOING ALL ALONG.

I, out of an abundance of caution and courtesy, have been sure to inform any LEO I have encountered while carrying. There haven't been many.

The response usually is something like, "You leave yours holstered and I'll do the same."

Other than the immediate assumption of guilt, nothing changes. Disarming a guy who just declared they are legally carrying a handgun is foolish at best, dangerous at worst.

Stay safe,
Signed NAC (not a cop)

11/21/2013 10:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
I just hope that Officers are very careful in the handling of certain weapons such as the 1911 style pistol carried whats known as "cocked and locked". Thats a 4 pound trigger folks, be extra careful ! Some of these can be tuned down to dangerously light trigger pulls in the name of accuracy. Be very aware of this if you have to handle one. Yes you are going to see folks walking around with these old school guns.

11/21/2013 01:25:00 AM



Old school guns, huh? They call it Glock Leg for a reason...

More to the point, I'm going to be carrying a Delta in condition one because its what I'm trained with and its what I choose to carry. As long as CPD doesn't decide they need to disarm anyone during a traffic stop no one should have to worry about a ND.

11/21/2013 10:26:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

TSI FIRE ARM TRAINING course which is ran by two cops specifically told everyone during the course to keep our hands in plain view and tell the officer that youre carrying a gun in the car immediately. Show the officer your permit ..dl ...insirance card right away.
They saI'd something about once were issued the permit that it will attached to our plate numbers as a conceal n carry

11/21/2013 10:33:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

TO: "Tommy Boy" Dart - wannabe cop, political Pig

RE: Fuck You!

FROM: Rank and File Law Enforcement aka The real police

11/21/2013 10:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Willing to bet that concealed carriers walk amongst us right now and no one knows a difference. Haven't heard about too many shootouts or police/civilian interactions gone awry in those Southern counties already practicing...

11/21/2013 11:20:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Anonymous said...

I have had a Texas Concealed Handgun License for a little over 14 years and I have been pulled over for speeding twice in that time. It works like this, you hand the officer your DL and CHL He asks if you are carrying and you politely say "yes officer". The Texas State Trooper asked me what I was carrying and we got into a conversation about why I preferred a 9mm over a 40. He gave me a warning ticket and we went on our way. When a city cop pulled me over we went through the same drill. We were polite, he gave me a ticket for 10 MPH over and we went on our way. No one got excited, and everyone was polite. I have been stopped numerous times near the border at temporary immigration checkpoints, same thing. In Texas you are required to show your CHL and DL together, no big deal. Also, in Texas there are well over a million law abiding people carrying concealed, again no big deal. We are polite and LEOs are polite. That is the way it should be, Yes, there are shoot outs arising out of traffic stops down, but they are not coming from folks with a CHL.
I don't see what the big problem is?
Concealed carry in Texas. "

The "problem" IS that this is Illinois which is Democrat controlled where many IL residents are fleeing to states such as yours to regain their Constitutional Rights.

11/21/2013 11:21:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

More horror stories from the liberal anti gunners with what they are sure will happen, but has not happened in the other 49 states with CCW laws. Dart sure is coming off as a jerk. Really, what does the cook county sheriffs office really know about traffic stops? Really? With the exception of a handful of sheriffs police officers, not much, and that included Dart, who prior to his election had not police training whatsoever and probably knows less then the average police recruit,.

11/21/2013 12:07:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
I just hope that Officers are very careful in the handling of certain weapons such as the 1911 style pistol carried whats known as "cocked and locked". Thats a 4 pound trigger folks, be extra careful ! Some of these can be tuned down to dangerously light trigger pulls in the name of accuracy. Be very aware of this if you have to handle one. Yes you are going to see folks walking around with these old school guns.11/21/2013 01:25:00 AM




I agree; more cops than you think are not "gun people". I would be worried about a Rookie cop handling a cocked and locked 1911 or for that matter something that is DAO but with a short/light trigger like a PPQ or M&P Shield.

11/21/2013 12:20:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SCC.....We have 10,000 Cops...???

11/21/2013 12:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Some of these can be tuned down to dangerously light trigger pulls in the name of accuracy. Be very aware of this if you have to handle one. Yes you are going to see folks walking around with these old school guns."

Old school? I have a brand new Kimber 1911... with a 4lb trigger. Its not old school or odd. Factory glocks are like 5lbs triggers...
Its only old wheel guns and "special" cops guns they put 8 and 12 lbs triggers on.

Besides. Cocked and locked is just on in the pipe. Still 2 safeties on a 1911, backstrap safety AND manual safety, unlike a Glock or sig lets say...

Get a clue.

11/21/2013 12:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Great blog SCC the mayor and so called chief think we {I'm retired] can't adjust to the new laws then again most officers don't shoot out street lights and most citizens don't wear tutu's.

11/21/2013 01:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am a citizen and have several RTC permits, and carry everywhere I'm legal to do so.

I don't drive like a jagoff, so i am not often stopped. But when I have, I employ a polite duty-to-inform greeting even in states where I'm not required to.

I have always been met with a courteous and professional response, therefore I will continue to inform law enforcement of my configuration in those situations.

I can only hope that you fine folks in CPD are able to transition into the new law of the land without going through a bunch of BS, and I hope all these squeaky new, lawful permit holders keep a good head on their shoulders and act appropriately and keep their shit in-check and we'll realize the full benefits of conceal carry law in illinois.

take care leo's

11/21/2013 01:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

as a copper the only hope is a license carrying person has thugs attempt to hurt/rob/kill them and they use headshots double tap to kill the scumbags who have threatened,maimed,killed, innocents for years "its our turn now criminals," we are finally going to legally be allowed to defend ourselves using lethal force the same that you thugs use on innocents! Bravo finally the time for the sheep has come, to be the lions. Simple rules leave people alone and society will be much better for it! As a CPD officer I applaud the licensed gun carrying people, now Dart that kid has never been the police, don't worry we will be trained in how to confront people with guns! Whoa! wait a minute, we confront criminals with guns regularly, in my 30 years I have never confronted an innocent person with a gun, always the thug criminal!

The new game as the animals call it is the knock out game where a black thug knocks out and injures an innocent white person,

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/11/20/three-knockout-game-attacks-reported-in-philadelphia-area/

hope they try that with an innocent with a gun, double tap bye bye thug, then your mommie can say what a great thug you were!

11/21/2013 01:41:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Best yet, the Chicago airport police( remember LAX ) are still not armed.
And neither CPD or AVPD have had any word from downtown about the new concealed/carry.

11/21/2013 02:06:00 PM  
Anonymous To the douchebag poster said...


To: 11/21/2013 02:23:00 AM
RE: (499 Douche bag)
The douchebag title seems to be fitting more than one person since you’re wearing it well. Lt. R has good intentions when he looks for roll call training opportunities. The training you bring up was lame, but if you remember it came after a couple of coppers got hurt during a traffic stop gone bad. The fact you don’t like him and your dumbass thinks you don’t need an occasional reminder shows that maybe the douchebag nickname is yours to keep. I’ll bet you’re either one of the jagoff dogs that thinks they have the right to put their work on the rest of us, or one of the people who have fucked up and got caught, and don’t like the result. So douchebag, you’re only one of a small number of people and your attempt to make it look like all of us on the watch don’t like him is a failure. So take your lumps and stop being such a pussy or leave. And since the douchebag title has proven to be a very costly mistake maybe you should have learned from that. Maybe he should do some more training for you to learn from since you don’t seem to learn too quickly.

11/21/2013 02:13:00 PM  
Blogger gatorbait said...

The Louisiana CCW is a must inform as well. It works well,99.99% of the time . It's pointless to be a douchebag to the officer. His job is hard enough. Odds are pretty good the copper is not going to be a douchebag either.

Yes, I am a 1911 carrier. Be happy to discuss with any copper who is interested in it. Otherwise, we shake hands and go about our business.

11/21/2013 03:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Moonbattery »

(White) Knockout Game Victim Sides With Her (black) Attackers

http://bit.ly/1h5KL2s


11/21/2013 03:46:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I may or may not get a cc permit, but as a female suburbanite, I tend to be polite and respectful to people anyway - not just police.

If I did get stopped,I would hope to be respectful and polite even if the officer wasn't.

The rest of the nation manages to deal with CC, so not sure why Dart thinks you guys won't be able to handle it.

11/21/2013 04:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OT, But hilarious!
The only difference between this guy and our merit inept bosses is that this idiot got caught!

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/11/21/sheriff-aide-things-are-very-unstable-in-robbins/

11/21/2013 04:37:00 PM  
Blogger SCC said...

We are Anonymous said...

SCC you tend to forget this is Chicago where nothing is normal. There will be plenty of assholes with CCP who are going to do shit to get themselves in trouble. I have already seen it. Hell I have seen plenty of POs who shouldn't be allowed to carry. I am all for CC but for you to think the city and county don't have a reason to worry about the mishaps that will occur during the transition period is ridiculous.


If you could just point out the place where we said we weren't worried about the potentials for mishaps, we'd appreciate it.

In fact, that would be the point of asking for training so as to avoid mishaps, right?

Try to keep up here Fawkes

11/21/2013 04:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks for supporting our rights, SCC!

11/21/2013 05:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Love this we need more of it, thug plays knock out game and gets shot this is what concealed carry is about the hunters/thugs will be the hunted nice!

http://www.wilx.com/news/featured/headlines/Dangerous-Game---Point-em-Out-Knock-em-Out-231443411.html?device=phone

11/21/2013 05:16:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

Best yet, the Chicago airport police( remember LAX ) are still not armed.
And neither CPD or AVPD have had any word from downtown about the new concealed/carry.

11/21/2013 02:06:00 PM

true but some of the avpd should not have weapons are you kidding??

11/21/2013 05:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"...and in Wauconda, where a bullet warrants lockdown of a school, locker search with canines, etc, they are likely preparing their "Lockdown Preparations" in the event that a person lawfully carrying a handgun is encountered."

Hey halfwit. How do you compare finding a bullet in a school vs cc? Bit of a stretch, eh?

11/21/2013 07:24:00 PM  
Anonymous rtoz said...

Rational and reasonable comments from several responders as to what is happening in ALL the other states and the the legally required responses of citizens with concealed carry. Common sense would be helpful too. Illinois, Cook county, Chicago politicians are doing their best to create a crisis situation to cover for their own bias and incompetance. " The sky is falling" all the time for people who need us to look anywhere else except at the sinkhole of corruption, greed, and stupidity that passes for politics in what used to be a great City and State.

11/21/2013 07:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dart said he expected more shootings to occur — including those that are ruled justified — once the new law takes effect and more people are carrying handguns.
-------
Can anyone explain what's wrong if we have more justified shootings?

11/21/2013 08:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Concealed carry should lower crime rates, as it has in other states....but since this is bizarro-world Chicago, who knows?

If crime DOES go down due to concealed carry, you can bet McBullshitArtist will take credit for it, saying his policies are paying off, all hail Comp-post.

Wanna bet?

11/21/2013 08:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi, Second City, I am signed up for the non-resident training (I am uncertain if it is distinct from your Illinios resident training).

What questions do you have?

I am an Indiana resident and the guy who responded to Rahm in Crain's Business Chicago, November 18th issue.

Kirk Freeman
Lafayette

11/21/2013 08:46:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Indiana cop with 37 years here, and reading this stuff is hilarious! I would think CPD, above anybody, is well aware of how to handle somebody that might be carrying a gun- those 500 people didn't hang themselves last year. You guys already have to treat EVERY traffic stop or 'suspicious person' stop like they're armed, and most aren't law abiding. The CC permit holders are not an issue, in my time there's been a couple that I've contacted (usually a DWI or some such) that were invariably polite. They said they had a weapon, where it was, we retrieve it and take it for safekeeping, and they get booked as usual. When they bond out they can pick up the piece, no harm no foul. Your Democrap politicians are making a mountain out of something that's way less than even a mole hill, I assume that's their way to try to get you to feel like you're on their team and they have your back. You already know what they're doing back there though.

11/21/2013 08:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Seem to be alot of 1911 fans here

11/21/2013 09:35:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Old school guns, huh? They call it Glock Leg for a reason...

More to the point, I'm going to be carrying a Delta in condition one because its what I'm trained with and its what I choose to carry. As long as CPD doesn't decide they need to disarm anyone during a traffic stop no one should have to worry about a ND.

11/21/2013 10:26:00 AM
What I meant was that most Cops are not used to handling the 1911. Heck, many have never seen or heard of the 1911. Im a fan of the pistol, I bought one in 1981(Colt mark 4 series 70 w/ mmc sights,long trigger and pachmayr flat mainspring housing and grips. Ring a bell ?) Your Delta is a collector piece now, do you really want to use that for carry?

11/21/2013 10:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Noted firearms trainer Clint Smith has said that " many have the 1911 that shouldnt have the 1911 ". They dont suffer fools and are not for the inexperienced or first time user.

11/21/2013 11:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Jonathan Quayle Higgins said...

Seem to be alot of 1911 fans here

11/21/2013 09:35:00 PM

As there should be. 1911 was the end of Great Britain's rise in the world. King Edward had just died, but the Great War had not yet begun. It was a great time to be a member of the British aristocracy; their social life was their job. Soon after many would lose their fortune, privilege and life. The end of the Edwardian Era is looked back upon with great nostalgia.

11/21/2013 11:31:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Indiana cop with 37 years here, and reading this stuff is hilarious! I would think CPD, above anybody, is well aware of how to handle somebody that might be carrying a gun- those 500 people didn't hang themselves last year. You guys already have to treat EVERY traffic stop or 'suspicious person' stop like they're armed, and most aren't law abiding. The CC permit holders are not an issue, in my time there's been a couple that I've contacted (usually a DWI or some such) that were invariably polite. They said they had a weapon, where it was, we retrieve it and take it for safekeeping, and they get booked as usual. When they bond out they can pick up the piece, no harm no foul. Your Democrap politicians are making a mountain out of something that's way less than even a mole hill, I assume that's their way to try to get you to feel like you're on their team and they have your back. You already know what they're doing back there though.

11/21/2013 08:48:00 PM


Here you need a commander's signature to release a gun taken into inventory. No commander working, no release, come on back another day or week. Weapon already transferred to ERPS (main inventory storage) then they have to travel some more when they want to retrieve it. Guaranteed to be a pain. The inventory system here is almost into the 20th century. Ten years ago they were still using books with paper and carbon. That is the backup system. Ever heard of carbon paper?

11/21/2013 11:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Only in Illinois!!!! When I travel outside The Republic of Crook County to a State like Idaho where I have friends,the cops out there are not giant snatches like they are here.

Officers need to realize that its a RIGHT and liberty to own carry a weapon. Also cops need to get off there high horse and realize that they are not all that well trained.

Civvies I know have way more firearms training than officers and are way better shots.

Relax there tough guy. I think most cops are happy with law abiding citizens being able to carry. Maybe you need to find the "I think Im better than a police officer" blog!

11/21/2013 11:49:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Seeing this from afar in permitless AZ I have to keep myself from banging my head into the keyboard when I see:
if I ever do have to use deadly force chances are very good that you won't have to deal with me because I will not be hanging around

You know "flight = guilt" right?
There are cameras everywhere. You will be found eventually.
If you use your weapon, be the first to make the call to 911. You have been a victim and turned the tables on your attacker. Get backup (PD) on the way and get an ambo rolling for the guy you stopped, it's the humane thing to do.

I agree that we need conceal carry but we need the training to deal with the armed citizen or it will be the "ok corral"

As the Indiana cop pointed out.
You already have the training. Everybody is considered armed until proven otherwise right? It only makes sense. The legal citizen isn't going to be on your radar anyway. You guys have enough dipsticks to deal with.

11/22/2013 12:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

They could have made the whole academy a streaming video ! Six months of quality day dreaming !

11/21/2013 07:55:00 AM

May have a good idea there. Put the entire academy curriculum on computer home study. Log in, watch the lectures, take the tests. When you pass they send you to a district. Save a lot of money.

11/22/2013 12:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In the old days, some copper' carried their 1911 - 45 cal, cocked and locked. Seen a few discharges when they tripped in a dark area, etc. No error.
In the 1980', if you carried an auto, you could not have one in the chamber and you would get spar-ed if an inspector or W/C found you doing this.
Anyway, we carried the auto with one in the pipe. We did not care much for bs rulesmade by idiots.
They range guys came up with this bs rule/policy.
The new gun caring public will buy 45', and carry cocked and locked and I hope they are experts in carrying a weapon like that. I been carrying guns for nearly 40 years, Had the 1911, but never felt I could safely carry one with such a light trigger pull, cocked and locked.
Nothing like a 45...but I'll stick with the double action only.
I always said, carry two ! The CPD was a great department, when we could be the real police. My heart goes out to all you fine men and women. Your job is difficult and hell everyday with the shit you have thrown at you everyday by the alleged bosses.
Please stay safe and back your brothers up.

11/22/2013 01:26:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OT: who's the straight up hair gel on zone ten always got something smart to say that's got nothing to do with them? You think dispatchers have enough nonsense to listen to?

11/21/2013 02:07:00 AM

You mean can't get right with family who stay in 11 an always get themselves locked up?

11/22/2013 02:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"...and in Wauconda, where a bullet warrants lockdown of a school, locker search with canines, etc, they are likely preparing their "Lockdown Preparations" in the event that a person lawfully carrying a handgun is encountered."

Hey halfwit. How do you compare finding a bullet in a school vs cc? Bit of a stretch, eh?


Well Anonymous 11/21/2013 07:24:00 PM In Wauconda, they tend to overreact!!!! One example is locking down a school and bringing in canine and searching all lockers and having a lockdown.

In the event a person is lawfully carrying a gun in Wauconda, they may overreact again and lockdown their village, request the National Guard, etc!!!!

--Why don't you just have another piece of quiche and shut up?

11/22/2013 05:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am signed up for the non-resident training
============
As I understand it at present despite there being provision in the law for non-resident licenses there does not appear to be any way a NR can actually meet all the requirements of the law. Something about how other states deal with voluntary mental health commitments.

11/22/2013 05:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Attention, Tom Dart:

Your training was already made available by a professional a while back. You may view the training video at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

...and, a quick Question for Sheriff/Civilian Tom Dart: Aren't you the famous law enforcement instructor also known as J. D. "Buck" Savage??? I found one of his training videos using that stage name at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_OoKN-ih-o

11/22/2013 05:53:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is Tom Dart training other officers in this "Watch those hands" video???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtYRt3nY0Dk

11/22/2013 06:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You know "flight = guilt" right?
There are cameras everywhere. You will be found eventually.
If you use your weapon, be the first to make the call to 911.

11/22/2013 12:25:00 AM

This is why Illinois put more innocent people in prison than any other State.Please do not play Detective.

You have no obligation to call in a shooting.It could be a violation of your 5th Amendment Right to self incrimination.
Georget Geaorge Zimmerman,he cooperated and got charged criminally.

11/22/2013 08:26:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

C'mon now, there's no time for this type of training when the department has to implement this change to introduce squads to several districts. It's more important for the department to waste time on the fucked up squad version of policing then it is to train officers for the new conceal carry law. Where are your priorities!

11/22/2013 01:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I first carried a Colt 1911 A1 in 1977 in the Marine Corps. Actually it was manufactured by Singer. I carried one on this job, when we could. I still on occasion carry at 1911 A1. That being said with 30 plus years experience with that weapon. I will tell you, that you had better use caution.... even more so than any other handgun. It has 3 functioning safties: 1/2 cock: Manual Safety and the grip safety. And the main one a 4th safety.....If you keep your finger off hte trigger the weapon will not fire. As far a John Q citizen carrying one........ you will see a lot of Negligent they are not accidental discharges with all weapons. But I d bet there will be more percentage wise with the 1911 versions. Hell we have coppers that have NDs..... with Double action only weapons. Coppers have shot other coppers with that weapon one that I know of fatally.....
As the police Im not a fan of Concealed Carry. but it s the law and We as Ciizens have that Right. So Be it. But there are gonna be a lot of more goofs carrying weapons than there are now........

11/22/2013 08:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

But there are gonna be a lot of more goofs carrying weapons than there are now........

11/22/2013 08:25:00 PM

Yeah and they have badges and uniforms.Just like Darts body guard.

The 1911 is perfectly safe,idesignedsighed for GIs.Go to Gunsite or Thunder Ranch and get some REAL training,sorry the Acdoesn'tdoesnt measure up.

11/23/2013 07:24:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Relax there tough guy. I think most cops are happy with law abiding citizens being able to carry. Maybe you need to find the "I think Im better than a police officer" blog!

11/21/2013 11:49:00 PM

But I know I am. Im a Grand Master pistol shooter and use a 1911 based pistol(STI) and carry a Colt Commander.

Im not an affirmative action hire or political hack juice baby.

We walk amongst you..........

11/23/2013 07:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Free knowledge:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VigOuoA6iiI

11/23/2013 09:33:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As the police I'm not a fan of Concealed Carry. but it s the law and We as Citizens have that Right. So Be it. But there are gonna be a lot of more goofs carrying weapons than there are now........

11/22/2013 08:25:00 PM

Why are you opposed to CCW for the populace when it has been the law of the land for 240 years.The "new" IL law does not create CCW,we have already had it for over two centuries,our rights were taken away and regulated to a ridiculous level.

How do you justify carrying a weapon for yourself but not others.Its that sense of entitlement in Chitisn'tn isnt it.

11/23/2013 12:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For you un-educated 1911 naysayers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKgAkwB8WRo

11/23/2013 02:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
As the police I'm not a fan of Concealed Carry. but it s the law and We as Citizens have that Right. So Be it. But there are gonna be a lot of more goofs carrying weapons than there are now........

While I believe P.O.s are faced with tough decisions every shift and have the utmost respect, I find it hard to respect someone who acts as if they are anything more than the rest of us....human. Were you not TAUGHT the skills you posess that allow you to be a good police officer?

11/24/2013 11:15:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Training? Yeah, right....

I teach part-time at an academy in the suburbs and recently asked the cadets if anyone informed them that retired LEOs can carry concealed under LEOSA. I was SHOCKED to hear that NONE of their instructors had informed them of the law or the ramifications of it.

As we know, this law went into effect back in 2004! Why are the acadmies not properly training their cadets?

Retired Ol' Sixgun Sarge

11/29/2013 03:08:00 PM  
Blogger Mr. SouthSide said...

Quiche sucks.

12/18/2013 07:26:00 AM  
Anonymous MA firearms license said...

I personally prefer the conceal carry training from a good firm. The nice part of this training is they teach all aspects of shooting, conceal carry as well as recommendations on what you should use or buy for yourself.

5/09/2014 01:01:00 AM  

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