A Good Point
(We read a comment that really made us think today - it's buried somewhere, so we can't quote exactly, but this is the thought it provoked in a lengthy roll call/squad car conversation)
Retro.
Former president Shields fucked up. Whether by accident or design, he failed to send in the letter to commence negotiations. Every other negotiating party did, but not FOP. There were plenty of people who could have (and might have) told him that the letter had to be sent. Certain persons insist they were never told, other persons insist that they told Shields and he ignored them. As a result, charges were hurled back-and-forth, grievances were filed and the FOP lost each and every one of them. Retro for 2012-2013 was gone.
Now it's back?
Sorry, something doesn't make sense here. Pardon our doubt, but Rahm isn't that kindly. He knows cops aren't going to vote for him. He knows the teachers are a lost cause. Firefighters have no great love for him. So why reward the cops with retro that they had already lost? Rahm is a political animal - emphasis on the "animal" part of that. He doesn't fight something tooth-and-nail, have his spokes-weasels say "the cops are going to have to give up something big" to get retro, and then after he wins every battle, just give it back.
Something is rotten in Denmark and the noises coming out of various labor entities pushing "retro retro retro" bring to mind the bad old days of Bill Nolan telling everyone, "Enjoy your retro!" as if that made up for the massive screwing we got in the 1990's contracts. And guess who Nolan's Chairman of the Board of Trustees was during those years? If you said, "Dean Angelo," pat yourself on the back.
Retro.
Former president Shields fucked up. Whether by accident or design, he failed to send in the letter to commence negotiations. Every other negotiating party did, but not FOP. There were plenty of people who could have (and might have) told him that the letter had to be sent. Certain persons insist they were never told, other persons insist that they told Shields and he ignored them. As a result, charges were hurled back-and-forth, grievances were filed and the FOP lost each and every one of them. Retro for 2012-2013 was gone.
Now it's back?
Sorry, something doesn't make sense here. Pardon our doubt, but Rahm isn't that kindly. He knows cops aren't going to vote for him. He knows the teachers are a lost cause. Firefighters have no great love for him. So why reward the cops with retro that they had already lost? Rahm is a political animal - emphasis on the "animal" part of that. He doesn't fight something tooth-and-nail, have his spokes-weasels say "the cops are going to have to give up something big" to get retro, and then after he wins every battle, just give it back.
Something is rotten in Denmark and the noises coming out of various labor entities pushing "retro retro retro" bring to mind the bad old days of Bill Nolan telling everyone, "Enjoy your retro!" as if that made up for the massive screwing we got in the 1990's contracts. And guess who Nolan's Chairman of the Board of Trustees was during those years? If you said, "Dean Angelo," pat yourself on the back.
Labels: contract stuff, FOP
posted by SCC at 12:05 AM
172 Comments:
Yeah, he kept the ot for that year.
I call that a pretty big "gotcha."
Suddenly Dean Angelo isnt the savior he was built up to be? WTF!! Not one to say i told ya so,,,but
something fishy goin on.........vote no and stop workin v.r.i. make them hire new guys to put in those new cars........and to help pay towards our pensions.
Why is Rahm giving us retro and a raise when he clearly doesn't have to because of the letter screw up? Somehow, somewhere, the city is benefiting big time. Which means we are getting screwed big time. What did you promise Dean?
You voted for Angelo. He's an amateur like the rest of his FOP Board. He's got his Doctor's Degree, his disability check, and free health care coming soon with retirement. All amenities we will have to pay for in the future because he believes it's best for you. Now ask yourself, who is the sucker?
Vote NO
I made a comment probably a year ago that I continue to believe is true:
If it were to be litigated, I am quite sure that the city can NOT revoke the retro pay of the entire police union and all its members based upon the union's failure to send that letter.
Dr. Dean Sr. PhD....keep the retro. Leave the pension wording, medical increases, educational reduction, and photo dissemination out.
America
Vote No
Vote no on this contract.
This contract is really scary, the new tier health care program????
Angelo made sure not to bring this up in his videos you have to actually read what they are trying to do.
Stay very far away from this contract. Vote NO!
I have to look up past contracts.
I will post after doing so. They are trying to make going to arbitration as a negative impact on our contract. Making everyone believe that we have always lost in arbitration. This is not true!!1
We have had many gains in past contracts!
The old timers should chime in here because we are only looking at the last decision, which was negative for us!!
Arbitration can be our friend!!!
The biggest thing we ever gave up in a contract was merit promotions!
They sold us on this merit bullshit, with vague writing what merit meant!
Well look at your merit promotions, and ask why them!
They were all political connections! With 1 or 2 decent cops thrown a bone!
But who became your Commanders and Deputies!!!
The MERITS!!!!
That's how they control you!!!
Lets get rid of merit altogether!!!
And that is why this contract is in vague writing!
Throw in retro....And screw you all later!!
VOTE NO THERE ARE ONLY LOSSES IN THIS CONTRACT!!!!
RAHM IS A GENIUS!
Agree 100 percent. Very transparent contract. Vote NO.
And does anyone know the medical reason why Dean Angelo has been on disability? Just curious.
Wow, no it all makes sense. Dean was the Chairman under Nolan. Birds of a feather. Expect Dean to say the famous Nolan response at the meeting today: "I find that out of Order, and you're out of Order".
It didn't make sense back when this guy crawled out of the woodwork to run for F.O.P. president in the first place. He was gone for how many years and all of a sudden he wants to be our saint and savior? I voted for McDonaugh who was at least a currently working police officer. When he lost I reluctantly voted for bad Billy D. While I didn't care for him and his City Wide crew, at least they probably had their own personal greed to motivate them as opposed to whatever crap Dean is trying to pull now. Billy was the lesser of two evils and was the devil we knew.
Unfortunately, it's looking like McDonaugh, Bella, and company didn't do us any favors by shacking up with Dean for the runoff, but it probably didn't matter at that point, since City Wide acted like such d-bags that members would have voted for an orangutan instead of Bill.
The pieces on the chessboard are shaping up perfectly for Rham. Elect one idiot to fuck things up, then put in a snake oil salesman to trick the dumb cops into buying some bullshit.
teachers got 3% first year,2% second,2% third year....average salary of 76,000 for a 9 month job.......and an option for 3% for 4th year.
we are making less than teachers to risk our lives!
don't settle for less
Riddle me this batman??? When in the past have supervisors been ordered not to comment on a contract like they have been with this contract?
Never, because their contracts are better. If it goes to arbitration, the arbitrator will look to the sgt's contract to guidance. If supervisors are not supposed to comment voluntarily, let's start asking them some questions before it's too late....
What we have to give up for retro is our UNION.
Not the lodge or anything concrete but the unity of officers young and old, active and retired.
Two wedges will be driven into our union of officers, one at the beginning and one at the end of our employment. From that point forward strong, steady pressure will be applied to eventually split the union into small factions, too weak to be effective.
This is one of those times in life where you have to take a stand and know whatever decision you take will cost you dearly.
Very well said.
Was there ever a single doubt that Dean Angelo wasn't going to sell us out? Look where he came from - same as the old sell-outs.
I was and still am voting NO.
They at the FOP backed down. There was a better then 50% chance the an arbitrator would have given the 'retro' to the CPD. Simply put Past Practices . Additionally, it was given to every other union already.
So why did Rahm give it? Better he gives you some then you try to fight for it all! Kind of reminds of the shit contract that came the $1000 signing bonus.
I can't wait for the FOP meeting today. I still hope we have pizza.
Hey SCC,
Please continue to remind the masses to take FULL advantage of the tuition reimbursement before the 2016 happen. It doesn't matter where you go back to school, JUST GO BACK! Saint Xavier Univ is one option and they love the police and do the best the can to work with each and every one of us. The best part is NO upfront money out of our pockets and the books are FREE as well.
Here's an upcoming webinar (tomorrow):
https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/rt/1078141878839262466
Good luck to all and stay safe.
A dirty deal. Just like sgts contract!
Maybe it's time just to fit in our squads and answer calls. Do not go anything proactive!
I'm still voting yes.
This is simple, Rahm wants to avoid a drawn out arbitration. Having Union peace by having no contract negotiations on going is something all politicians strive for. He and his advisers probably figured there might be some kind of arbitrator award in favor of the union, so why not give a little and get the contract settled. As Forest Gump would say, "one less thing." No conspiracy. Shields screwed up. And,Rahm can also give press releases wondering where the money will come from to pay these greedy police officers.
Bobby,
And on what case law are you relying?
Sgt's gave up nothing and received 9%nover five years correct. Well it sure looks like this new medical tier system could easily cost a family 2% more a year. He'll most hospitals police use (Advocate) are even on the list!
Vote no. The worst we could do is give up nothing and get 9%. Where do I sign?
Wasn't a Dean Angelo guy to begin with but we couldn't vote in the guy who let Shields fall on his face so he could grab his spot.
The NFL is experiencing what we have been for years. A few knuckleheads casting a black cloud and shadow over them. A few knuckleheads making the negative news headlines. 99.5 per cent of this department and NFL are great average Joe's who help others daily with actions or donations. THAT NEVER hits the news.
I'm voting no because voting yes seems so exhausting.
Vote NO and stop working VRI.
I'm sorry, what is it exactly that our union does for us? We have no negotiation powers. If the city doesn't go along with our 'demands' they simply balk. What can we do in retaliation? NOTHING!!! We don't have the ability to strike so how is it a fair labor practice? What do they do for us? A picnic, golf outing, fishing tournament, little books and stickers?
They make D-6 pay and become political puppets, trained to trick you! Us! Me! They work for themselves. We, as a department, are prey for the mayor and his filthy agenda. Always have been and will continue to be. Why?
Ever have a grievance settled in under 90 days? It's supposed to be, according to our bylaws. Ever have an IPRA investigation completed in 90 days? It's supposed to be. Where are the teeth of our union reps, fighting these injustices? Righting these wrongs? Protecting their own hides while we succumb to the machine's will.
That is the purpose of a union; to fight for the rights of its members. Insure 'fair' practices are followed and enforced. Not turn grown people into whinny babies about contract scraps and crumbs of gratitude.
Unions were necessary a 100 years ago but now, they're just a business designed to make money and control the masses. Sad.
I invite all the haters to argue in the opposition of my opinion but it's just that, an opinion. Mine. You can argue all you want but before you do that, take a look at all the benefits they've provided you that aren't either already law-according to the Illinois Constitution-or mandatory according to the city's obligations to its employees.
I can't wait for the FOP meeting today. I still hope we have pizza.
9/16/2014 06:21:00 AM
Seriously? You exemplify everything that's wrong with this union. With all that's going on right now you're worried about pizza when we should all be focused on what day Santa is going to be at the hall. SMH.
I'm my watch commanders favorite and he promised me one of the new cars. vroooooom vroooom
Our seniority just got taken away. Yea I'm pissed bc I have 20 and on days and we'll get a shittier furlongs than a 8 year wonder on midnites. But seniority is all we have and this fop just gave it away to the city. Next contract they'll just issue furlongs based on clout, and the rest get really fucked
Yet all the money for food stamp receivers no money for pension or health care for coppers!
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/09/15/Food-Stamp-Sign-ups-in-Obama-s-Illinois-Larger-Than-Job-Growth
Don't trust Rahm.
Again.... This probably won't get submitted.
1) No activity. natta. Unless you have to per GO
2) All day/night/evening... Nothing but traffic stops. Cause gridlock and block traffic. Take your time writing the tickets(s). Then immediately find another traffic stop repeating same.
3) Paper for everything. Every job possible gets a report. And of course the PDT's work like crap so we will have to go down in the station for the completion of the report.
4) massive backup going down on every and all jobs.
Create a backlog from hell. I bet this would take 2 maybe 3 days and Rahm will cave. But who am I fooling. We don't stick together and we enjoy acting like cry babies when we get screwed by the completely useless fop hacks year upon year. We are a disgrace only to ourselves!
Suddenly Dean Angelo isnt the savior he was built up to be? WTF!! Not one to say i told ya so,,,but
No shit. He avoided a whole group of us at Rock The Badges. Once a weiner, always a weiner.
vote no and stop workin v.r.i
Mow here is a very smart poster person!!!
We play like idiots right into their hands.
No VRI
No activity
traffic stops causing grid lock
paper for every job
If supervisors are not supposed to comment voluntarily, let's start asking them some questions before it's too late....
9/16/2014 05:41:00 AM
I'll start: how's about three hours on the end?
You voted for Angelo. He's an amateur like the rest of his FOP Board
It doesnt matter who gets in. Every last one of them has been a bought and paid for back stabbing useless POS politician.
We don't need FOP. We are 8800 strong if we want to be. We can dump FOP and start over. We can get whoever we want but we don't stick together!
All these super educated so called Doctors/professors of feckemintheassology
Dr. Dean Sr. PhD....keep the retro. Leave the pension wording, medical increases, educational reduction, and photo dissemination out.
America
Vote No
How about we kick ass and take names simple as that!!
Totally agree with you SCC.
The measure of being an adult is being able to put off immediate gratification.....Rahm is NOT benevolent. Somebody is hiding something in this contract offer...it just hasn't been brought out. Rahm wants this contract DONE. Retro is the curtain he doesn't want anyone looking behind.
I can see it now 8 years down the road.The new officers hired under this contract will be be faced with a promise retro check but will have to give up medical for retirees. They will say these old farts screwed us for retro. I want my retro screw them.
This was an OUTSTANDING POST!
teachers got 3% first year,2% second,2% third year....average salary of 76,000 for a 9 month job.......and an option for 3% for 4th year.
we are making less than teachers to risk our lives!
don't settle for less
OUTSTANDING!!!
They at the FOP backed down. There was a better then 50% chance the an arbitrator would have given the 'retro' to the CPD. Simply put Past Practices . Additionally, it was given to every other union already.
So why did Rahm give it? Better he gives you some then you try to fight for it all! Kind of reminds of the shit contract that came the $1000 signing bonus.
"They always Fuck you at the Drive-Thru!!!"
Kind of OT:
Anonymous said...
Single retiree coverage now $653.00.
That's more than Obamacare and more than most mortgages.
9/15/2014 07:02:00 PM
-------
Is that really true? I retired w/in the last 6 months with the 55 and health care benefit...yet I keep getting letters that my health care has been terminated. Called benefits and was told my 'active' benefits were terminated but I have 'retired' benefits. But in every letter I get there is a form I am advised to fill out for getting Cobra or purchasing other insurance.
Anybody have a better answer than what I've been able to get so far?
Thanks. And stay safe all of you still out in the trenches.
Heres the problem in a nutshell . Real easy but maybe not ! Most coppers are consumed by everyday life . Working , gettin their kids through college , going to court , trying to make ends meet or sitting in the bar drinking .
As far as the union is they have no clue . NONE! They rely on what they heard " which usually isn't correct ," and don't get involved and ever go personally to a union meeting . They allow others who they don't know to make life decisions for them and their families . Then they bitch and complain and put the blame on someone else . " hey I heard , someone told me , the rumor going around etc. ? R U Fucking kidding
Me ? Get out of bed , become informed and wake up . This is your livelihood . When the meeting ends you can have a beer and pizza and go back to your life again !!!!
Everyone needs to understand your healthcare before you vote. I am guessing that we are getting screwed on it. Dean doesn't explain it and Rahm doesn't force us into the wellness plan. Dean doesn't have to worry because he is disabled. The only way the City doesn't get us to agree to the wellness plan is if the City gets a better deal with this contract. Someone needs to crunch the numbers and give us an idea what we are agreeing too.
Shields was a Fuck Up because of his stupidity and over inflated ego. Dean Angelo is a Fuck Up because of his lack of integrity and Con Man Gypsy attitude..He is pimping for Rahm..
Putting anything about the "PENSION" in our contract is a mistake. It opens a door that should stay closed and be fought at the State level.
We have to stick together and vote No .
No reduction in Merit Promotions , no increase in bids for second watch assignments or administrative assignments,nothing about officer safety , it's a violent city ,no police officer should work one man .
Why throw future police officers under the bus by taking away duty availability . How about a pensionable shift differential for mid nights and afternoons . 3% would be a good start . Promise of new cars , not a contract issue .
No is the only choice , vote no .
Look at your neighborhood , think you need an extra beat car or two , this should be part if negotiations . The public would love to know how unsafe their neighborhood is . New cars give every copper in district patrol a take home car , now you're talking .start the take home car program with all officers on the third and first watches .
Do not fall for retro , it's a bone with little meat on it . Fight for officer safety and merit promotions .
bobby said...
I made a comment probably a year ago that I continue to believe is true:
If it were to be litigated, I am quite sure that the city can NOT revoke the retro pay of the entire police union and all its members based upon the union's failure to send that letter.
9/16/2014 12:37:00 AM
Hey dickhead, why do we EVER send the letter if we would WIN in court??
I hope no one gets sick during this contract. The hoops you are going to have to jump through to get the insurance to authorize treatment is nuts. You can forget about picking your own Doctor or Hospital and it will eat up any raise you are getting. For those on disability (Dean) and all you healthy people, it probably isn't so bad.
It is amazing that people are starting to squirm and question, even challenge the workings of the FOP. It has been to many years that I notice that The FOP was ran like a small Boy Scout organization with picnics, golf outings, little treats to let us think that they are some organization working for our benefits.
The FOP (should be) must realize (better yet coppers) that this fraternal organization I must conduct itself as a professional corporate business no less than any in the NYSE. They potentially handle millions of dollars in addition to choices that effect thousands of lives.
The responsibility is the same. The Sheilds incident, should have proved that this organization is no different than I getting a few guys together in a poker game.
If WE AS SHAREHOLDERS don't start reading the fine print, hold FOP members ACCOUNTABLE .... Even finding recourse to injunction on ridiculous rulings....we are at their mercy....and will continue to get our monthly old news newsletter with its 20th century style distribution on useless information.
Wake Up!! You would not treat your bank or investment group with the same kid gloves!!! FOP is a institution both financial and legal........ If we elect or have a moron just sit there and make decisions, passing the buck to a high paid arbitrator who thinks he has things in our best interest why oh hh why did we elect him..... I think I'll run for the FOP getting paid to pay some one else (with your membership money) to make a decision!!!!
Just realize this...the FOP is a legal binding organization that handles in one way or another millions of dollars. Regardless of the nepotism and pay to play in which we obtain our lawyers and sponsors .... We must implore FOP to work as aggressively for us .....thousands of retirees and officers alike.... As any financial institution on Wall Street......
It's your money......your future.....
Then again if you remain complacent...take an extra pay bonus here or there, (while inflation...medical costs rise)......... JUST BE HAPPY YOU HAVE A JOB AND SHUT UP. And play the stock market...play the lottery...etc.
PRINCE VALIUM.
I voted for McDonaugh....
**********
Really? You can't even spell his name..
FOP should demand staffing at 100% like the Firefighters .
No more down cars , one Man cars on first and third watch , city will be forced to hire us to man the cars at time and a half or hire a few thousand new police officers .
Either way it's a win win , streets are safer , current officers work days off or three thousand new police officers are paying into our pension .
Next year, aftyer the elections, he is going to pass a huge property tax hike. Most of this will be to pay for what he and daley have stolen, but the police will get the blame.
Ask the old times. Daley did the very same thing before, and always the coppers were the bad guys for wanting to be paid. The news never said anything about all the money being stolen by the Daley clan.
What is this tier 1 and tier 2 hospital list? Is it posted anywhere or just fluff piece distraction?
You were all warned. Deano was described to a tee. "Retired " under the "they forced me to and the I'm too ill to really work, except at the union store " b.s......he doesn't care.....he no longer has a hat in our "active " fight. ...... loose seniority rights (already fought for and won) no big deal.......furlough by watch ( another seniority issue fought for and won) and surrendering seniority right no big deal. It is a big deal. Its huge. But Mr lifts in his shoes is serving us up to the adimistration because they can control even more with these two items. No longer can you say " what are you gonna do change my furlough or my watch when I wont dance to your grinder music ". Yes they will. Have some selfrespect and do NOT drink the cool-aid. Seniority in any fashion is too important to give up. Listen to retirees who are cringing at us over these developements. And no duty availability for new hires is rediculous just rediculous. They are trying to split us with by dangling a dollar carrot while shoving a barbed wire watermelon up our ass. Look at what tiny dancer did the other day to retirees. Why did he cut their health coverage because he can count on the populous to love cutting the police at the knees over anything. The populous is very jealous of our benefits and rhammy gets their applause by f"cking us and giving them a Multi- million dollar dog walk park. Dean is not fighting tor our rights he is wheeling as dealing as usual for himself. He doesn't need seniority anymore nor does he need duty availability pay. A non active member should not negotiate active member contracts. Period. Period. PERIOD. Dylan Hata
Maybe we can get one thing straight about the tuition reimbursement. NOTHING changes for a bachelor's degree. Still 100% for an A, 75% for any other passing grade. Period. The only change is if you want to pursue an master's degree and you are not enrolled in a master's program before 2016, you will fall under the new rules; 75% for an A, 50% for any other passing grsade. If this is a concern, get yourself enrolled in a master's program ASAP and you will be fine. I don't know the numbers, but there aren't a whole lot of people obtaining advanced degrees. Just a lot of trash talk from the uninformed.
Vote no! Rahm even feels that the police will get more in arbitration. That is the reason he is giving us retro for one year that he did not have to. Vote no we will get more!!
Like Donahue and Obamacare Doherty would have done better. But, they all did a number on Shields, didn't they?
"we are making less than teachers to risk our lives!"
Which is why cops will either note vote, or vote for Rahm. You want Karen Lewis moving money around? I think Rahm gave in partly to let cops be able to shrug and say "well, at least we got retro out of the deal."
Omg. What happened in 001. With the McClue and cooter. You rock cooter
"...teachers got 3% first year,2% second,2% third year....average salary of 76,000 for a 9 month job.......and an option for 3% for 4th year...."
Fact check because the wife's a teacher (and yes, we both walked when they striked and she is ready to walk for us) There is no "9 month job" - right now they get 6 weeks off in the summer and a handful of extra days thrown in over Christmas and Easter... and get paid that way. Some schools under Frodo's plan have gone year-round (with more to come) and no increases in pay. Couple years back he extended the school day 20% (with no increase in pay) and yanked their CONTRACTUALLY OBLIGATED 3% raise with no warning - "oh we don't have the money." That is what drove the strike. The 3% first-year raise was to make them whole for the previous raise Frodo blew off... which means in real money, aka my checkbook, she got a 4% raise across 3 years.
After 30 years trying to teach high school Science to those bastards in Englewood, Little Village and other prime real estate she finally packed it in last spring, and I thank God every night even though we have to wait 3 years before she can draw her pension (assuming she has one left by then). At least I go to work armed and with backup. She used to have to face down a classroom of 6'4" 300-pound hopped-up thugs with nothing more than a piece of chalk... on the days when the principal wasn't skimming the supplies fund and she actually had chalk.
Bottom line, kids - hate on Frodo and the rich crooked pieces of crap that run the shcool board, but don't buy in to the bullshit that teachers are skipping by.
Anonymous said...
teachers got 3% first year,2% second,2% third year....average salary of 76,000 for a 9 month job.......and an option for 3% for 4th year.
we are making less than teachers to risk our lives!
don't settle for less
Not defending teachers but in their last contract they received like 4% a year,but hidden away was the clause that they wouldn't receive one 4% raise that was tied to the economy or city budget. Guess what,they didn't get that raise.
Wow. You're all so right. Something very fishy here. I also heard and believe he was involved in the JFK assassination, the death of Marilyn Monroe and I heard he's hiding Elvis in his office at the FOP.
Always cry babies when it doesn't count. First, if we were able to negotiate for vehicles why can't we vote to get rid of merit hack promotions? If not get rid of all together, how about lessening the percentages the city has in place now? Second, the city will never re-negotiate our contracts if by any chance are benefits are diminished! We should take out the language about pension reform and re-opening our contracts! If pension reform doesn't happen, which it shouldn't, because it's protected by the state constitution, can the city re-open our contracts to lessen our so called gains? Third, the medical part of the contract is a no brainer, it leaves open the strong possibility of medical expense increases. Dean Angelo has lost this chess game, whether by design or not! To many loop holes left open. Where do we go from here, this is the question???? If we vote no, their is the strong possibility of a loss in arbitration! And we hired professionals to negotiate this contract? HELP!
bobby said...
I made a comment probably a year ago that I continue to believe is true:
If it were to be litigated, I am quite sure that the city can NOT revoke the retro pay of the entire police union and all its members based upon the union's failure to send that letter.
9/16/2014 12:37:00 AM
Don't be quite sure. You were wrong last year and you are still wrong. The FOP litigated it thru two sources, one was the labor board and I cannot remember the second. Both came back with rulings that sided with the city.
Another point is that courts try to stay out of contract disputes if the wording is included in a contract.
Don't know why you people voted for Dean Angelo.
Didn't see or hear a peep out of him for over 15 years. Never at meetings.
Then he shows up, gets qualified to run and everyone jumps on his bandwagon. Which from looking at this contract and all the senority give-backs looks more like a runaway railway car.
The City buying vehicles a contract issue??? WTF. Wide open loophole there. City has no money to buy cars and car companies won't give City cars unless City pays for them. End of discussion.
Could it be just possibly, just maybe, just a little bit true....what Shields said that the past contracts were in fact fixed. Sure looks like this one is "fixed", did Dean just assure himself of a good "position" after he is thrown out of office. Nah, but wait didn't Nolan become some super gaffer in the Sheriff's Office. Probably just coincident. Nothing to see here folks just move along, vote yes for the contract, and remember the super picnic we just ran.
I too have NO trust in any politician especially a "chicago" politician and always look for motive. But the contract is written out and I have read it several times along with others and then discussed it. In this case I don't see what is so terrible about it to vote it down. I don't want to send this to arbitration because of 1 or 2 issues that really aren't that bad. The raise is poor, but I don't see anything better coming from a pro-city arbitrator. You see, I also have no trust in an arbitrator who I believe will give the city what they want. Just look at our history with arbitration. Not very good. Furl by watch kinda sucks, but an arbitrator will certainly give the city furl by watch citing "manpower." An arbitrator could care less if the city hires or not. He will go by what makes sense and is "reasonable" with what manpower we have. Our raise will still be 11% too, but lose retro in the process. If the entire contract was bad then I could care less about retro and the 4% we could lose, but it's not that bad. Not enough to vote no and give up more $$$$ and a LOT OF TIME with that $$$$. Overall our health care is pretty darn good. Ask people in the private sec. We are definitely on par if not better.
I think getting retro and other things in the contract could have a lot to do with the election and Rahm trying to appear generous. He's got a tough election coming and right now it doesn't look good for him. I don't want some arbitrator making the decision 12-18 months from now causing us to lose a lot of $$$$ in the process. We all have to ask ourselves, "what will we gain or lose if we go to arbitration?" I think we will lose a lot and be sorry we did. I gotta vote yes and move on.
I made a comment probably a year ago that I continue to believe is true:
If it were to be litigated, I am quite sure that the city can NOT revoke the retro pay of the entire police union and all its members based upon the union's failure to send that letter.
9/16/2014 12:37:00 AM
_________________________
You are so retarded. Thank you for making me proud of the people whom I work with.
I made a comment probably a year ago that I continue to believe is true:
If it were to be litigated, I am quite sure that the city can NOT revoke the retro pay of the entire police union and all its members based upon the union's failure to send that letter.
9/16/2014 12:37:00 AM
It already was in arbitration and the ruling favored the city. The first year is off the table. FOP did not follow the rules and we lost. Sucks, but true.
If you get a squad car that is unsafe? DOWN IT.
Anonymous said...
They at the FOP backed down. There was a better then 50% chance the an arbitrator would have given the 'retro' to the CPD. Simply put Past Practices . Additionally, it was given to every other union already.
So why did Rahm give it? Better he gives you some then you try to fight for it all! Kind of reminds of the shit contract that came the $1000 signing bonus.
9/16/2014 06:20:00 AM
That would be great, but the retro issue isn't even allowed to be heard. It's DEAD. It can't be discussed at all! Look it up. It's a sad and unfortunate fact.
To practice law in Illinois, one must maintain a malpractice insurance. Why was the law firm representing FOP not sued for the Retro money lost due to malpractice?
"And does anyone know the medical reason why Dean Angelo has been on disability? Just curious."
Something about being disabled. Hope that clears things up.
Anonymous said...
I am voting, yes, on the contract. Are there things I don't agree with in the contract, certainly. However, the arbitrator will not give us a better contract, or a better raise.
It is almost a sure bet that we will be in the Wellness program, if it goes to arbitration.
The arbitrator by law cannot decide on anything in the contract related to July 1, 2012 to June 30, 2013 if we vote the contract down. The arbitrator cannot look at anything for that year. His decision will be based on what the contract proposals are after June 30, 2013.
This means the 4% total raise for that time period will be taken off of the table for that time period. Can the arbitrator add that 4% to other years of the contract? Yes. Will he? Doubtful.
Removing old CR's from the personal file is improved.
Pension talk is only related to renegotiating the salary IF WE HAVE TO MAKE LARGER CONTRIBUTIONS TO OUR PENSION. The language is not there for renegotiating pension benefits in the contract. That is a constitution issue, period.
AGAIN, I have major issues with the contract, but it cannot be made better by us voting it down.
I want nothing more than to put FOP and City Hall in there place. I have numerous fantasies about how that can be done. However, voting no to this contract will only make a bad contract worse. When that happens, the people who voted the contract down will be making a new round of accusation against the FOP, City Hall or the arbitrator. The fact is we will only have ourselves to blame for a no vote that results in an EVEN WORSE contract.
Sadly, the solution has to come with improving the next contract. This one will only get worse.
9/16/2014 01:09:00 AM
This was a good post and I agree 100%. We all need to read and understand this contract. Why some people still think an arbitrator can give us retro for the first year is amazing to me. This has been ruled on and it's DEAD. It can't even be discussed. We also can lose the 4% raise too. What the poster said about the pension issue is right. This contract has nothing to do with pension unless Illinois politicians increase our contribution then we can negotiate higher wages and that's all. Read it. The contract could be better but an arbitrator will not make it better. Arbitration will last a long time and that's also time without our $$$$$. And in the end nothing will change for the better. We will lose. Vote yes
Health benefits and pension issues? The retro is the least we should be looking at. Vote no on this one this is a huge screw job, I promise that.
Anonymous said...
Hey SCC,
Please continue to remind the masses to take FULL advantage of the tuition reimbursement before the 2016 happen. It doesn't matter where you go back to school, JUST GO BACK! Saint Xavier Univ is one option and they love the police and do the best the can to work with each and every one of us. The best part is NO upfront money out of our pockets and the books are FREE as well.
Here's an upcoming webinar (tomorrow):
https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/rt/1078141878839262466
Good luck to all and stay safe.
9/16/2014 06:26:00 AM
Yeah right. Every day you're reminded that you can't make people be better or do better than what they want for themselves. The same principle applies across the board. All the years I've been in the service and the amount of people that did not use their education benefits (that many of them had deductions taken out of their checks for) was crazy.
Angelo, Shields, Nolan, all the same types of jackasses.
The city has two big labor expenses above all. Teachers and police. When the teachers went out, the BIGGEST mistake the FOP made was not demonstrating loudly and en-masse with em.
You didn't have to endorse Lewis, or the lefties in the teachers union. Just standing up for labor would have been enough.
Rahm saw how many city labor organizations sat that one out and is not one bit afraid of those that did.
This contract is an absolute travesty and I feel VERY sorry for you guys going through this.
Next time there's a big strike by city workers, I hope everybody remembers this buttramming from Rahm and the modern Chicago democrats.
This contract proposal is a cancer...stage 4 type. There will be no turning back. Segregated healthcare with a cast system of tiers. Get ready to start taking your kids to "clinics" instead of certified doctors offices. None of the other First Responders have this crap!Waving duty availability for 42 months..Think about it..if you don't need it for 42 months, why would you need it at all. That will be the argument echoed in the 2017 contract. Furlos by watch. C'mon and simply wait your turn in the pickle barrel. Your seniority should be priceless and will come to you one day at a time. Do not willingly cut each other's throats for a quick buck (that you will get through arbitration anyway) and a pat on the back from Rahm. This job will NEVER be the same if this shit goes through.
Just in...if the contract is ratified..the new cars will have AM radio in them. We tried for AM/FM but we did not want to appear greedy.
Dean played checkers while the City played Chess!
We could have sent the carnie/grifter guy from the Simpson's and would have done much better.
Warmed up shit is still shit.
By far this would be the worst contract in 30 years.
For heaven's sake VOTE NO!
Dean "We got the city to give up some really big concessions"
WTF is this guy smoking? Does FOP have bath salts in the gift shop...
If they don't I know where they went.
WE should be asking for a four year 16% raise with no give backs.
Getting a 2% raise while giving back 2% in medical is a ZERO percent gain. So 11% for 5 years is really 9%. Look further than the tip of your nose!
WE should not accept a 5 year contract. No way!
Screw the new guy, screw the old guy, that's the theme of this insulting contract.
This reminds me of the ghetto bonuses Rahm was handing out to new teachers to work a longer day in an attempt to circumvent the Teacher's Union.
Lip stick on a pig..still a pig.
Well u all are crazy. I am voting YES. Go into arbitration and nothing will change. No retro and everything else stays the same. If u care that much about furlo take yo ass 2 midnight
These are same gangster wannabes that got voted out before citywide took over. We are the dumbasses who put them back in office.
They are sneaking in small print to crush our pension!
Just look at the retirees medical!!!
40% hike right up the rear!
I know its not us taking the hit but you see a pattern.
No pension wording should be in any contract including the half ass SGT's Union.
Worry about retro and you will lose your families future pensions!
I'm voting no to the contract. And YES to decertification of lodge 7. What. A. Joke.
Anonymous said...
This was an OUTSTANDING POST!
teachers got 3% first year,2% second,2% third year....average salary of 76,000 for a 9 month job.......and an option for 3% for 4th year.
we are making less than teachers to risk our lives!
don't settle for less
9/16/2014 08:29:00 AM
That sounds great and I get it, but when it's in the hands of an arbitrator we have to settle for whatever he gives us.
Where does it say advocate hospitals are not on the tier 1 list. I've looked everywhere ! Please provide a link.
Anonymous said...
I can't wait for the FOP meeting today. I still hope we have pizza.
9/16/2014 06:21:00 AM
Seriously? You exemplify everything that's wrong with this union. With all that's going on right now you're worried about pizza when we should all be focused on what day Santa is going to be at the hall. SMH.
9/16/2014 07:57:00 AM
To the second poster, you had me for a moment and I was instantly going to retort what an idiot you were for not picking up on the sarcasm. Glad I read your whole comment before I did lol! Thanks to you both for the laugh.
The F.O.P. originally fought for every lock-up to be fully stocked with bologna meat and Wonder bread so that the prisoners would be adequately fed. They realized that if it came down to an arbitrator's decision, they would lose big time. That's why they settled for the new cars instead.
Seriously? You exemplify everything that's wrong with this union. With all that's going on right now you're worried about pizza when we should all be focused on what day Santa is going to be at the hall. SMH.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Lol
Anonymous Anonymous said...
This was an OUTSTANDING POST!
teachers got 3% first year,2% second,2% third year....average salary of 76,000 for a 9 month job.......and an option for 3% for 4th year.
we are making less than teachers to risk our lives!
don't settle for less
9/16/2014 08:29:00 AM
Check a few things before you think the teachers got a great deal. First, we cannot strike, teachers can. Rahm wants peace with teachers most of all, they proved they will walk out on strike. Nothing will get City Hall's phone lines jammed up faster than a city full of school children not being in school because teachers are on strike.
Check if the City is still under a pension holiday with the CTU. If so then it is simple, raises are coming from money that should go into the pension fund, thus are free to the City. Daley did it, make sure where Rahm is getting the money. Is the CTU allowing Rahm to continue with a pension holiday for the teachers.
Coppers think retro pay is the biggest issue from Shield's failure to send that letter. It is not. Retro is the smallest and most insignificant issue to come from that letter not being sent.
All of the negatives in that contract are due to police not negotiating first, tied directly to that letter. Franczyk saw immediately what a gigantic advantage not sending that letter gave to the city and he sent ahis own letter informing the FOP that the FOP would now be the LAST contract completed, not the first. He was true to his word, we were last. Thanks Mike Shields.
Retro is nothing, that we got as good as we did is due to the skill of our labor attorney's. I stayed at the noon FOP meeting today listening to those attorneys explain the negotiating and particulars of that contract. The noon meeting was still going on when I left after 400pm.
Long story short, this contract is highly unlikely to get any better from an arbitrator. All other unions have already settled. Any arbitrator will look to the other labor contracts settled when/if deciding ours and it is very likely the arbitrator will give us LESS than was negotiated.
That is truth. Best thing now is to just approve it, lick our wounds and go forward. This is it, this is the best we are going to do, don't blame Dean Angelo. (I didn't vote for him) Blame Mike Shields.
The labor lawyers explained it, that letter not being sent fucked us in many ways, the least of which is retro. at least they got the raise for that year and the raises are front loaded.
I listened to the discussion on that contract for hours. I wasn't convinced when I walked into FOP Hall but I am now. That is the best we are likely to get. By a long way. And still, we are the only union in the city NOT to be in the wellness plan as a requirement.
If you ever see Mike Shields again, blame him, he fucked the entire membership on this one. No matter who said what, it was his responsibility to get that letter sent in on time and he failed to do that. He failed miserably.
Don't even consider that an arbitrator will give us a big raise. Won't happen. This meeting should have been wall to wall police officers but the room wasn't even full.
But the video of the meeting, in it's entirety, will be on video on the FOP's web site after you log in and get a password. Fast forward to the contract discussion portion and watch it for a few hours. Especially the two labor attorneys explaining it.
Anonymous said...
They at the FOP backed down. There was a better then 50% chance the an arbitrator would have given the 'retro' to the CPD. Simply put Past Practices . Additionally, it was given to every other union already.
9/16/2014 06:20:00 AM
Not so. If this goes to an arbitrator the city will present the fact that the FOP failed in it's requirement to send that letter to reopen the contract. Thus not only no retro but no raise for 2012 either. He cannot do anything for 2012 because it won't be the subject of arbitration due to Shields' fuckup. 2012 is simply a lost cause. That we got even 2% from July 1 2012 that is in the new contract proposal is the best we can do.
They are trying to fool us with $ signs and even "giving us a play" on some aspect. But looking at the whole contract, they are screwing us big time. Pension and medical. Think big, think long term. Look at what they are doing to the retirees... 40% what for medical what? With this contract we get to pay more for hospitals we would've gone to for the same price normally. Don't do it. Let the arbitrator figure it out. VOTE NO!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdDucxnFU78#t=66
@ 0:40 "As in cities across the US, there has been a profound decline in living conditions for the working class in Chicago. Industrial jobs that paid decent wages has been eliminated and replaced by low wage and temporary work. These conditions have been worsened by decades of democratic rule."
If this little fucking mayor does not put in the required 550 million dollars to the pension funds, he should be led out of city hall in handcuffs. Vote NO on this disgraceful contract too. It really is insulting.
I was going to vote yes but after doing some research I'm voting no. First the two tier hospital why should we pay more to go to certain hospitals.Second I don't believe dean snake.
Anonymous said...
They at the FOP backed down. There was a better then 50% chance the an arbitrator would have given the 'retro' to the CPD. Simply put Past Practices . Additionally, it was given to every other union already.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Given to every other union...that got their letters in on time.
Anonymous said...
Putting anything about the "PENSION" in our contract is a mistake. It opens a door that should stay closed and be fought at the State level.
9/16/2014 08:50:00 AM
This is a non-issue. It's in there incase the state changes the law or constitution and alters the pension contributions. ie we have to pay a higher percentage out of our checks. If that happens, right or wrong, the FLOP can seek increased wages.
Not every thing is a fucking conspiracy.
Mike Shields is running next election . we need him back. He was honest and pure and a team player
ssc it doesnt matter deano and greg have been promised meritorous promotion for their friends and relatives per RAHM
Bitch all we want but going thru an arbitrator and putting a future course in their hands his like playing russian roulette we might just loose it all, think long and hard before we play here. Those who are retiring they got nothing to loose cause they are already done and out and are just waiting for an answer but those who still got many years left on, hey do we really want to feel the results of hey lets put it all on the arbitration, "F, no", just saying we will revisit these negotiations in a few years anyways, let things play out. Many of us might not even live past 50yrs of age think long and hard on how to live whats on the table today!!!!
Well what do you think about raising the retiree's healthcare 40 per cent!!! Didn't hear the FOP complain about that when it was released to the papers and media.
Read this contract AND have someone who understands it explain it to you if you are unclear. By no means am I writing this putting any member down nor is it my intention to insult anyone. Labor contracts have been taught/studied for 100's of years where people pay tons of money to learn them properly. Please educate yourselves.
In the next 2 weeks watch a phone order come out and Shields goes to a nice hole in the wall job for his fuck up. I remember when you young copper' wanted him in and would not listen to us old timers. You got what you wanted when he took over.
When I came on in the late 1970', we could not get enough advise from the old street copper'. Now the generation X police know all and when they screw up a vet has to clean up their shit.
Then you vote for Dean the Dream, a zero copper from day one.
Retirees take a good ass kickin on this site, some with good reason. This ASSHOLE mayor is raising my medical by $400 p/month.
Please vote this JAG-OFF out.
Be Safe Boys and Girls & remember, one day you will retire too.
The NFL is experiencing what we have been for years. A few knuckleheads casting a black cloud and shadow over them. A few knuckleheads making the negative news headlines. 99.5 per cent of this department and NFL are great average Joe's who help others daily with actions or donations. THAT NEVER hits the news.
You compare the CPD to the Thugs of the NFL ?
Just think how many, many times the Players of this shit org have avoid arrest and the press because their agent made it happen ! Copper's get vetted to come on job, these slugs all have backgrounds and got a big play from the alleged college they attended.
So they hand out Hams dueing Xmas in the inner city for a day and the Hans were gotten for zip. The next day' they are on some island with their play mama' and hanging with the rapper crowd of bigger thugs.
You truly are living in wonderland. Don't forget to buy their Jersey for $150.00 and walk around the hood like a 17 year old.
Anonymous said...
This was an OUTSTANDING POST!
teachers got 3% first year,2% second,2% third year....average salary of 76,000 for a 9 month job.......and an option for 3% for 4th year.
we are making less than teachers to risk our lives!
What about the 4% from their previous contract the the CPS cancelled - teacher never got that back. Also - they no longer have deferred pay option. - so those summer months you don't get a check - also. They lost seniority - they are lowering the efficiency ratings of most senior teacher than firing them to hire younger less paid teachers. Plus they work a longer day for no pay.
The Furlough by watch is a benefit to the city. Back when we rotated watches the furlough by seniority didn't do much to affect manpower or make it a big issue. Now that we have straight watches, furlough selection by watches drains manpower.
Lower Merit promotions, (Only one in a career).
Put teeth back in contract that spells out exactly the penalties for the city when they violate the contract.
When it comes to pensions.
End Gold Braid Pensions, Highest EARNED service of LT should be the max pension. Capt's are appointed so a Capt should only receive the pension of a Lt for his years of service.
Went to the union meeting today. The lawyer explained it in a nutshell. The contract is front loaded and if we go to arb we will get 97% of the contract proposal. He says we will not get 4% for 2012-2013. No retro for 2012-2013 and we will surely go into Rhams wellness plan. The lawyer has first hand knowledge about wellness because his wife is CPS teacher and he said you don't want it. Oh and there is no negotiation. He puts the blame on the letter which led the city to negotiate with us last knowing we will get stuck with the supervisors and fires contract. Also they explained the tier system, nothing to see here move along vote yes.
After we give our seniority rights on furlough picks, what next? Furlough picks will be by watch and d.o.g. Wait and see. Give an inch and they take a mile.
Anonymous said...
Anonymous Anonymous said...
This was an OUTSTANDING POST!
teachers got 3% first year,2% second,2% third year....average salary of 76,000 for a 9 month job.......and an option for 3% for 4th year.
we are making less than teachers to risk our lives!
don't settle for less
9/16/2014 08:29:00 AM
Check a few things before you think the teachers got a great deal. First, we cannot strike, teachers can. Rahm wants peace with teachers most of all, they proved they will walk out on strike. Nothing will get City Hall's phone lines jammed up faster than a city full of school children not being in school because teachers are on strike.
Check if the City is still under a pension holiday with the CTU. If so then it is simple, raises are coming from money that should go into the pension fund, thus are free to the City. Daley did it, make sure where Rahm is getting the money. Is the CTU allowing Rahm to continue with a pension holiday for the teachers.
Coppers think retro pay is the biggest issue from Shield's failure to send that letter. It is not. Retro is the smallest and most insignificant issue to come from that letter not being sent.
All of the negatives in that contract are due to police not negotiating first, tied directly to that letter. Franczyk saw immediately what a gigantic advantage not sending that letter gave to the city and he sent ahis own letter informing the FOP that the FOP would now be the LAST contract completed, not the first. He was true to his word, we were last. Thanks Mike Shields.
Retro is nothing, that we got as good as we did is due to the skill of our labor attorney's. I stayed at the noon FOP meeting today listening to those attorneys explain the negotiating and particulars of that contract. The noon meeting was still going on when I left after 400pm.
Long story short, this contract is highly unlikely to get any better from an arbitrator. All other unions have already settled. Any arbitrator will look to the other labor contracts settled when/if deciding ours and it is very likely the arbitrator will give us LESS than was negotiated.
That is truth. Best thing now is to just approve it, lick our wounds and go forward. This is it, this is the best we are going to do, don't blame Dean Angelo. (I didn't vote for him) Blame Mike Shields.
The labor lawyers explained it, that letter not being sent fucked us in many ways, the least of which is retro. at least they got the raise for that year and the raises are front loaded.
I listened to the discussion on that contract for hours. I wasn't convinced when I walked into FOP Hall but I am now. That is the best we are likely to get. By a long way. And still, we are the only union in the city NOT to be in the wellness plan as a requirement.
If you ever see Mike Shields again, blame him, he fucked the entire membership on this one. No matter who said what, it was his responsibility to get that letter sent in on time and he failed to do that. He failed miserably.
Don't even consider that an arbitrator will give us a big raise. Won't happen. This meeting should have been wall to wall police officers but the room wasn't even full.
But the video of the meeting, in it's entirety, will be on video on the FOP's web site after you log in and get a password. Fast forward to the contract discussion portion and watch it for a few hours. Especially the two labor attorneys explaining it.
9/16/2014 05:09:00 PM
That was a great post and 100% dead on. I wish everyone would realize that we have nothing to gain in arbitration, but a lot to lose including time. It's that simple. Question....."if you believe all the labor lawyers are wrong or lying and you think some arbitrator will give us a better contract then vote NO." There is no way we will get a better deal in arbitration. Not even a slight chance if you look at history and weigh the facts. I'm voting yes.
We can't vote NO based on mistrust for the city or FOP or out of anger. I get it, but we have to vote based on wisdom. "will an arbitrator give us a better contract?" That's what should determin how we vote. Period.
Anonymous said...
I can't wait for the FOP meeting today. I still hope we have pizza.
9/16/2014 06:21:00 AM
Seriously? You exemplify everything that's wrong with this union. With all that's going on right now you're worried about pizza when we should all be focused on what day Santa is going to be at the hall. SMH.
9/16/2014 07:57:00 AM
To the second poster, you had me for a moment and I was instantly going to retort what an idiot you were for not picking up on the sarcasm. Glad I read your whole comment before I did lol! Thanks to you both for the laugh.
9/16/2014 04:52:00 PM
Pizza pizza, I was listening to that union business crap for so long that they ate all the goddamned pizza by time the meeting was over! Damnit!
I had to go get a Whopper with cheese and a coke and I had to pay for it myself!
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Agree 100 percent. Very transparent contract. Vote NO.
And does anyone know the medical reason why Dean Angelo has been on disability? Just curious.
9/16/2014 03:33:00 AM
*****
six knee operations.
___________________________
So why did Rahm give it? Better he gives you some then you try to fight for it all! Kind of reminds of the shit contract that came the $1000 signing bonus.
9/16/2014 06:20:00 AM
*****
It was $1250.00
Rahm has a 29% approval rating. If we sit on both hands instead of one it would truly turn into Chiraq. We are doing about 40-45% of the proactive police work that we used to do.
Anonymous said...
They are trying to fool us with $ signs and even "giving us a play" on some aspect. But looking at the whole contract, they are screwing us big time. Pension and medical. Think big, think long term. Look at what they are doing to the retirees... 40% what for medical what? With this contract we get to pay more for hospitals we would've gone to for the same price normally. Don't do it. Let the arbitrator figure it out. VOTE NO!
9/16/2014 05:32:00 PM
The arbitrator will not deviate very much from what has already been negotiated; the reason being the other city unions got virtually the same thing. We negotiated last this time. Do you think any arbitrator will give us the great improvements you seek? He or she will not. Not when all other unions are already settled.
This is the "Shields Letter" price we pay for not going first.
As for medical, we will in the future get the same discounted rate the city gets from all hospitals, including the good ones, Northwestern, Rush, Lutheran General, Christ etc.
The maximum deductible and out of pocket per year has not changed no matter which hospital you go to. Out of state etc. for retirees, disability etc. are still out of network as they were before.
That is important: Max out of pocket per family per year has not changed.
The living conditions SUCK in Chicago. Let us out!
who was on the union labor negotiating committee
1.
2.
3.
4.
Did a little calculation for everyone.
If you have less than 5 years on the job and worked since 01JUL12, your retro is around 5-6k before taxes and payments.
If you have 5-30 years on the job, your retro is anywhere between 6.8-7.8k before taxes and payments.
The more years you have the more you get for retro.
I am voting yes on this and not because it is a good contract. In fact there are things on the contract that are no good on the long run, but I believe that we will not get anything better in arbitration. In fact, I think we will do worst in arbitration and end up on the wellness program.
I hope those of you voting no at least weigh what may happen in arbitration.
Be safe everyone.
Voting No , only reason contract offer of retro is because of the mayoral election , who wants a 5 year contract .
By the time an arbitrator makes a decision we will be renogiating a 4 year contract and dean jello van send the letter out on time .
Maybe next contract the social organization will beg for less merit promotions , beg for more bid spots on second watch and all bids for clerical duty .
Vote no .
******MY NOTES FROM FOP MEETING/CONTRACT EXPLINATION*******
These are my notes, sorry if I missed something or interpreted something different than it was intended from speakers but there was a piss poor showing at the FOP meeting and I see people posting comments about voting without knowing what the fuck they are talking about.
***THE PAGE NUMBERS ARE IN REFERENCE TO THE PROPOSED CITY AND FOP TENTATIVE AGREEMENT
pg 1) - there is no retro on overtime worked for first year yet there are no
losses to the pension. The pension legislation reopener allows us
to reopen agreement and renegotiate if there is an increase to our
contributions to the annuity fund.
pg 2) - we will be losing the duty availability for new hires for 42mos.(city
offered 54 mos.) / Fire Dept lost this in their contract. This won't
have an affect on pensions as long as you are 50years of age with
10 years of service.
2% for retirees after 2017. This is a loss but elected officials belive
this will be a loss in arbitration as Captains, Sgts and local 52
already gave this up.
pg 3) - No Wellness program (Angelo made this sound like a victory on his
behalf but during the meeting Daugherty stood up and pointed out
that in 2007 this went for arbitration (pg 74-75) and an arbitrator
ruled that we CAN NOT be forced into wellness and LMCC.
(Paragraph 6b) 1-JAN-15 $600 wellness is gone(kids vacinations
etc.) and replaced by United States preventive services task force
A&B
http://www.uspreventiveservicestaskforce.org/uspstf/uspsabrecs.htm
outpatient spech and ocupational now covered with no co-pay.
Suicide is now covered. No Lifetime max for medical benefits.
Diabetes and Maternity programs offered.
1-JAN-17 SUBSCRIBER SHARE(discounted price that city
negotiates with BlueCrossBlueShield vs ACTUAL PRICE)
New rate for Tier 2 hospital is 25% co-pay of subscriber share price
(city's negotiated price) vs 10% of FULL amount. FOP expects this
to be less for everyone except a distinct few. FOP also expects
hospitals in Tier 2 to be in Tier 1 by 2017 as majority of health
plans are switching to this. All other unions are doing this by 2015
Out of network = no change.
pg 4) - independent doctors for certain services = free.
hospitals for services = co-pay required.(ex.colonoscopy)
********after 3 refills of a prescription MAIL ORDER MUST be
initiated or else full price.
I.O.D. benefits and time freeze are more beneficial for us now.
pg 6) - City of Chicago knowing that officers on the street is a problem
during summer INITIATED the furlough by watch. (Angelo stated he
told them it hasn't worked in the past) BUT, this allows for more
comp time usage by members on each watch. FOP will establish a
Time Due committee to ensure manpower allowed comp time is
universal throughout the department on every watch.
A committee will be established to ensure better vehicle standards
(90k miles and out).
IAD/must show video and allow officer to alter or explain statements
pg 7) - Arbitrator must rule before an officer serves a suspension.
Department can force members to use comp time for 1-3 days
suspensions but not Baby Furlough or Personal days
pg 8) -Tuition Reimbursment - CITY offered 12 classes maximum in
officers career and 50% reimbursment; FOP negotiated for 75% plus
scholarship credits(which come off the amount due first)
pg 9) -better military leave benefits(state benefits vs city)
***********EXPLINATIONS BY DEAN AND LAWYERS************
Wins
Video review before IAD
Medical until 2017
4% on front of contract
Losses
new hires lose duty availability for 42 mos.
2% for retirees after 2017
Technically 4% for 2012
Lawyers stated that the goal of the FOP was the IMMEDIATE recovery of 4% we should have received had the letter been sent in 2012.(Arbitrator technically stated that since the economy has improved we would have received 4% for 2012. However, since Captains and Sergeants accepted 2% it would be hard for an arbitrator to rule higher than 2%. Arbitrator would probably allow us to recover the 4% however it would be spread throughout the contract thus hurting all retirees from the Jun 1, contract that should have been -now as they would not receive the 4% increase they are due.
If this contract is voted "NO" then it will go to an interest arbitrator
Vehicle and other non-points to most people have been brought up during negotiations because the Angelo regime brought up every single issue that they felt necessary as well as a list from Daugherty which was started many years ago as issues he seen fit.
**********MY INTERPRETATIONS***********
First off, this was a piss poor showing for something so important. No young officers at all, and very few active members.
The main purpose of this contract appears from listening, to be saving the 4% raise front-loaded to ensure retirees receive the pay increase.
There seemed to be very little fight on Angelo's behalf and a MAJOR fear of Arbitration for many issues. I don't know if this is wrong or right but just how I felt after listening. What I will say is thay when an issue was challenged, Angelo did have a very good explination for many points, but there was the more common point of "we accepted this to avoid arbitration" brought up many times. While no direct words were spoken, there seemed to be a lot of blame on us negotiating last out of all the unions, putting the blame on the Sgt's and Captains union, as well as the Shields administration. It sounded like the focal point of this contract was to recover from last contract and to fight for an excellent contract next time up. Hope this helps, still not sure how I will vote, but after listening to lawyers, I would like to avoid arbitration if possible.
Vote no and stop looking at the shiny objects...they are called coins.
Paying 25% of your doctor bill for the same doctor I already have. I have three kids and a wife. Will my 2% retro check for 2012 cover this. Hell no!
This contract is wrong at so many levels its sick.
I will take my retro and hire a Gypsy tuckpointer...makes as much sense.
Vote No!
Check a few things before you think the teachers got a great deal. First, we cannot strike, teachers can
True dat... However,
We could cause a lot of chaos if we would only stick together!
If you ever see Mike Shields again, blame him, he fucked the entire membership on this one.
Well then why Didnt Frankie boy and the rest of the merry men make the rounds to the units/districts about it.
They all knew what they were doing. I call 150% bullshit on all of them. Bastards!!
The lawyer explained it in a nutshell. The contract is front loaded and if we go to arb we will get 97% of the contract proposal. He says we will not get 4% for 2012-2013. No retro for 2012-2013 and we will surely go into Rhams wellness plan.
And Mr Lawyer knows all this now already??
It is almost a sure bet that we will be in the Wellness program, if it goes to arbitration.
Says Who?
What is this tier 1 and tier 2 hospital list? Is it posted anywhere or just fluff piece distraction?
It means taking your sick child to the ghetto to go get treatment? Lutheran... Resurrection no good anymore
Anonymous said...
Mike Shields is running next election . we need him back. He was honest and pure and a team player
9/16/2014 06:12:00 PM
Right. And Mailbox Mary was a pure virgin that used her body as God's own temple of life.
Mike just wasn't very smart, he alienated too many people and never drew people close to him that had smarts, he went into office with guns blazing and right off fired everyone that knew anything. He sealed his own fate.
That letter was a colossal blunder. If this contract goes to arbitration, the arbitrator cannot even consider 2012, it isn't eligible for arbitration because the letter was never sent and the FOP already lost that one. Be grateful you even got the 2% from July 1 2012.
To practice law in Illinois, one must maintain a malpractice insurance. Why was the law firm representing FOP not sued for the Retro money lost due to malpractice?
9/16/2014 12:45:00 PM
-Because Shields did not retain labor counsel until after the letter was sent late. All he had was in-house counsel.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
The Furlough by watch is a benefit to the city. Back when we rotated watches the furlough by seniority didn't do much to affect manpower or make it a big issue. Now that we have straight watches, furlough selection by watches drains manpower.
Furlough by watch doesn't drain manpower, it increases it, no one from midnights has to go to days in the summer to cover for all the old guys taking summer furloughs. And no one from days or afternoons has to go to midnights in January or February. There is exactly the same percentage of officers on furlough at any given time on all watches. If it is 7%, then it is 7% on all watches equally. The city wanted this for ease of balancing manpower. It was a concession FOP had to make to get things like 2% raise front loaded on July 1, 2012.
Lower Merit promotions, (Only one in a career).
Not likely to ever happen unless we give up a whole lot. The city has that one and won't give it back
Put teeth back in contract that spells out exactly the penalties for the city when they violate the contract.
The remedy is usually proportional to the violation or is supposed to be. If it goes to arbitration, then arbitrator decides
When it comes to pensions.
End Gold Braid Pensions, Highest EARNED service of LT should be the max pension. Capt's are appointed so a Capt should only receive the pension of a Lt for his years of service.
State pension law, not in contract now or ever. Max pension amount now is in place on Tier 2 pensions but it will be years before it effects any exempts
9/16/2014 07:41:00 PM
Anonymous said...
Retirees take a good ass kickin on this site, some with good reason. This ASSHOLE mayor is raising my medical by $400 p/month.
Please vote this JAG-OFF out.
Be Safe Boys and Girls & remember, one day you will retire too.
9/16/2014 07:01:00 PM
Retirees, take heart. That raise to your medical is very likely to be rescinded. Clinton Krislov has gone back into court to get an order against that one since the entire matter is in litigation and the Illinois Supreme Court recently ruled on another case of public employees that the state constitution means what it says. Pension benefits, once earned, cannot be changed or diminished. Rahm is spending taxpayer money on legal bills is all. Labor attorneys feel strongly the city will lose on this and rescind the increases.
Retirees, also, if you have not done so, kindly send some money ($100 or $50 or $1000) to Clinton Krislov so he can keep moving on the retirees health insurance issue. He is the only one in court on our behalf. Please send some $$.
His address is:
Krislov & Associates, Ltd.
Civic Opera Building, Suite 1350
20 North Wacker Drive
Chicago IL 60606
Anonymous said...
Well what do you think about raising the retiree's healthcare 40 per cent!!! Didn't hear the FOP complain about that when it was released to the papers and media.
9/16/2014 06:45:00 PM
Clinton Krislov has already gone into court for us on that issue.
9/15/2014 07:02:00 PM
-------
Is that really true? I retired w/in the last 6 months with the 55 and health care benefit...yet I keep getting letters that my health care has been terminated. Called benefits and was told my 'active' benefits were terminated but I have 'retired' benefits. But in every letter I get there is a form I am advised to fill out for getting Cobra or purchasing other insurance.
Anybody have a better answer than what I've been able to get so far?
Thanks. And stay safe all of you still out in the trenches.
9/16/2014 08:39:00 AM
They are required to send COBRA letters to employees who for whatever reason are not on active employee health coverage. Your coverage was not terminated entirely, you changed coverage.
In this city the left hand frequently doesn't know what the right hand is doing. I am retired but under the over 60 agreement thus I get the same active insurance, thus I never got that letter.
As long as they send you that new Blue Cross card don't worry and don't bother buying COBRA.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
This contract is really scary, the new tier health care program????
Angelo made sure not to bring this up in his videos you have to actually read what they are trying to do.
Stay very far away from this contract. Vote NO!
9/16/2014 01:04:00 AM
Big mistake to vote No
So maybe Shield's allegations might have had some truth to it after all. Shields said in the end the city would pay up and we needed to focus on more important issues like health care and pensions. Those issues over the long haul would cost you more than that retro check would ever be worth. There is a reason the fop didn't go into the tier hospital system in detailed in videos because there is something they are trying to hide. So take that check and save it for all the new copays that you'll have trying to get quality healthcare boys and girls.
Maybe we can get one thing straight about the tuition reimbursement. NOTHING changes for a bachelor's degree. Still 100% for an A, 75% for any other passing grade. Period. The only change is if you want to pursue an master's degree and you are not enrolled in a master's program before 2016, you will fall under the new rules; 75% for an A, 50% for any other passing grsade. If this is a concern, get yourself enrolled in a master's program ASAP and you will be fine. I don't know the numbers, but there aren't a whole lot of people obtaining advanced degrees. Just a lot of trash talk from the uninformed.
-------------------------
About 300 are currently enrolled. A new crop of about 300 appears every 2 years. With those numbers it appears that about 7% of the force is involved in the program. It's a big deal.
We have a contract issue for 3 helicopter pilots and 8 honor guard guys, so 7% is a big deal.
----------------
that one issue about tuition reduction is the deal breaker for the contract.
Vote NO NO NO
Wow even the FLOP smells like Illinois and city politics
Anonymous said...
In the next 2 weeks watch a phone order come out and Shields goes to a nice hole in the wall job for his fuck up. I remember when you young copper' wanted him in and would not listen to us old timers. You got what you wanted when he took over.
When I came on in the late 1970', we could not get enough advise from the old street copper'. Now the generation X police know all and when they screw up a vet has to clean up their shit.
Then you vote for Dean the Dream, a zero copper from day one.
9/16/2014 06:54:00 PM
I'm a millenial copper... gen-ex is so 90's. get your super-beta prostate capsules, take a long piss, and go back to bed, and get rid of that ridiculous mustache already, Stanley Wojohowicz!
Vote NO and stop working VRI.
9/16/2014 07:56:00 AM
Have been saying this for moths though I can't find where it went in print. STOP working ALL overtime for ONE stinking week.. If you can't live we no OT for 1 week then go back to laying on your back.
Per Labor Law nothing can be born out of arbitration that was not born out of negotiations e.g. (book on "How Arbitration Works"). I think it is imperative that the FOP membership knows that some of these issues were inherited by the Angelo Administration. Although the current contract proposal is not Utopian, it the best the FOP is going to get! Political forces are attempting to submerge Dean as evidenced by numerous comments on the blog. My only request is that members vote as "EDUCATED CONSUMERS."
teachers got 3% first year,2% second,2% third year....average salary of 76,000 for a 9 month job.......and an option for 3% for 4th year.
we are making less than teachers to risk our lives!
don't settle for less
9/16/2014 04:30:00 AM
Ummm, don't forget just about everyone in streets & san, transportation dept and water dept!
Check out the City web site that shows employee salaries and you will see!
Anonymous said...
Why is Rahm giving us retro and a raise when he clearly doesn't have to because of the letter screw up? Somehow, somewhere, the city is benefiting big time. Which means we are getting screwed big time. What did you promise Dean?
9/16/2014 12:25:00 AM
HELLO!!!! HE sold your pension by adding it to the contract. The words chosen were carefully chosen by the city. Have the words changed to if the city/state violates our constitution we have the right to sue in federal court to correct the violation.
Also healthcare tier system was introduced for not choosing rahms wellness like everyone else. If u like your network and hospital pay more now. If u want his wellness program u can keep ur old doctors and hospital and pay less. But you gotta attempt to be healthier.
There is to much math in this contract 11%, 3 tiers for medical I am voting no.
Anonymous said...
The biggest thing we ever gave up in a contract was merit promotions!
They sold us on this merit bullshit, with vague writing what merit meant!
Well look at your merit promotions, and ask why them!
They were all political connections! With 1 or 2 decent cops thrown a bone!
But who became your Commanders and Deputies!!!
The MERITS!!!!
That's how they control you!!!
Lets get rid of merit altogether!!!
And that is why this contract is in vague writing!
Throw in retro....And screw you all later!!
VOTE NO THERE ARE ONLY LOSSES IN THIS CONTRACT!!!!
RAHM IS A GENIUS!
9/16/2014 01:50:00 AM You sir, have it figured out! The salary increases sought are chump change compared to the promotional raise's stolen from nearly ONE THIRD of the membership by merit promotions. Nearly ONE THIRD of you will miss out on the largest raise of your career because the politicians promote people who spell shit with two "t's", Your union must ending the merit promotion giveaway once and for all.
The tier program isn't great but it's not the"wellness plan" and there still is a maximum outta pocket of $3,000 a year per family and you can go to any doctor. The shit hospitals just cost less. Also there is no increase in our contribution per check for any po's. also it doesn't go I to effect until 1/1/2017.
Take a look around boys and girls healthcare everywhere is going to shit.
I'm not say vote yes and I sure hate giving Rahm a contract right before his election but wellnes is a real possibility if we go to arbitration. Sgt's and Lt's have it.
Sgt's and Lt's Lso received only a 9% raise as well.
I'm a gambler but not sure on this one.
Yeah, but Stanley is right son.
Anonymous said...
To practice law in Illinois, one must maintain a malpractice insurance. Why was the law firm representing FOP not sued for the Retro money lost due to malpractice?
9/16/2014 12:45:00 PM
-Because Shields did not retain labor counsel until after the letter was sent late. All he had was in-house counsel.
9/16/2014 11:28:00 PM
So Paul Geiger was the lawyer responsible for the retro fuck up? How much money did that guy cost us? can we sue him?
Anonymous said...
Again.... This probably won't get submitted.
1) No activity. natta. Unless you have to per GO
2) All day/night/evening... Nothing but traffic stops. Cause gridlock and block traffic. Take your time writing the tickets(s). Then immediately find another traffic stop repeating same.
3) Paper for everything. Every job possible gets a report. And of course the PDT's work like crap so we will have to go down in the station for the completion of the report.
4) massive backup going down on every and all jobs.
Create a backlog from hell. I bet this would take 2 maybe 3 days and Rahm will cave. But who am I fooling. We don't stick together and we enjoy acting like cry babies when we get screwed by the completely useless fop hacks year upon year. We are a disgrace only to ourselves!
I know you.... I'm the guy that handles your beat all night. FU
Keep everything in the contract the same expect get rid of all merit, let us move out of the city and let them keep their retro.
Everyone, both retired and active, should make a contribution to the retirees health care lawsuit. Should Mr Krislov win this case, it will greatly strengthen our pension protections. This case, is the whole ballgame.
Mike just wasn't very smart, he alienated too many people and never drew people close to him that had smarts
You mean Mike wouldn'y play along with you thieves.. Or old timers? Everyone from the last 18 years should go to prison!
Hospital Tier 1 & Tier 2:
The hospital lists are not available, how can we make an informed decision?
It doesn't take effect till 2017? Then leave it out of this contract altogether. Maybe this item would be an incentive to settle the next contract on time.
vote no its crap, no up side .. they can keep their 750 dollar retro from that year
Everybody is saying your medical didn't go up. People it goes up when you get a raise it's a percentage of your salary.
Hospital Tier 1 & Tier 2:
The hospital lists are not available, how can we make an informed decision?
It doesn't take effect till 2017? Then leave it out of this contract altogether. Maybe this item would be an incentive to settle the next contract on time.
@@@@@@@
Even if the list is complete today and contract took effect tomorrow there is nothing to keep your hospital from opting of the program next week. The below list is the active one but has not been updated since 08/09. Expect all of these to be on the tier one list.
http://www.bcbsil.com/producer/pdf/30103.pdf
"I'm a millenial copper... gen-ex is so 90's. get your super-beta prostate capsules, take a long piss, and go back to bed, and get rid of that ridiculous mustache already, Stanley Wojohowicz!"
But your Mother enjoys the ride soooooo much!
Took my German Shepherd Dog for a walk.. When he got up from his squat;he looked up and said:"Hey that looks a lot better then that Contract Super Dean gave you guys!"...
Even if the list is complete today and contract took effect tomorrow there is nothing to keep your hospital from opting of the program next week. The below list is the active one but has not been updated since 08/09. Expect all of these to be on the tier one list.
http://www.bcbsil.com/producer/pdf/30103.pdf
THE ONLY THING I EXPECT FROM THE CITY IS TO GET SCREWED. NO WAY. I WANT SOLID PROOF THAT NORTHWEST HOSPITALS ARE INCLUDED.
The city's wellness program is not a reality. More fictional information being put out there. Take a look at our last contract arbitration that was done by Ed Benn. It states on page 75 that the FOP does not have to join the wellness program. If this contract does go to arb, the arbitrator will not go against Ed Benn's ruling.
I'm beautiful, I'm smart,I'm important,now give me a new car and,11%,or I'll say ,simple no and no means no Bi#€#€$!
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