How Difficult is This?
So many people claim we have a gun problem, so they make it harder for people who follow the rules to actually....follow the rules.
Every gun we have bought has a serial number. And every time we buy a gun, we fill out a pile of paperwork.
CPD has recovered some 4,800 guns so far this year that were used illegally. We assume that most had serial numbers and these are recorded somewhere in the endless paperwork.
We know that a large number of guns are stolen from individuals, stores, rail cars, truck yards, etc. But a sizable percentage must be traceable to an individual purchase somehow.
So what's the point of recording all this info if no one uses it? Why aren't we hearing about some schmo who loses a gun a month? Some felon's girlfriend who buys a gun that goes missing? A straw buyer who is supplying guns to the gangs, etc. This would seem to be an easy way to narrow down Chicago's supposed "gun problem" seeing as how there still isn't a single gun store within city limits, yet someone, guns keep appearing, people keep getting shot, cops keep finding guns, and the courts keep letting shooters go.
Are we missing something? A couple of high profile prosecutions might actually deter some of the "gun running" that seems to go on without making it so difficult for the law abiding to purchase a gun..
Every gun we have bought has a serial number. And every time we buy a gun, we fill out a pile of paperwork.
CPD has recovered some 4,800 guns so far this year that were used illegally. We assume that most had serial numbers and these are recorded somewhere in the endless paperwork.
We know that a large number of guns are stolen from individuals, stores, rail cars, truck yards, etc. But a sizable percentage must be traceable to an individual purchase somehow.
So what's the point of recording all this info if no one uses it? Why aren't we hearing about some schmo who loses a gun a month? Some felon's girlfriend who buys a gun that goes missing? A straw buyer who is supplying guns to the gangs, etc. This would seem to be an easy way to narrow down Chicago's supposed "gun problem" seeing as how there still isn't a single gun store within city limits, yet someone, guns keep appearing, people keep getting shot, cops keep finding guns, and the courts keep letting shooters go.
Are we missing something? A couple of high profile prosecutions might actually deter some of the "gun running" that seems to go on without making it so difficult for the law abiding to purchase a gun..
Labels: gun issues
posted by SCC at 1:05 AM
79 Comments:
HOLY SHIT Now that sounds way to much like COMMON SENSE and the right thing to do.................
The one thing I always get a kick out of is the lies the Gun Grabbers spread about how illegal guns end up on the street and what the procedure is to legally buy a firearm. And how there are all these calls for "background checks" all the time when know one bothers to mention you pay $5 for a Illinois State Police background check at time of purchase
SCC, that's just crazy talk.
I think you're on to something here. I've owned guns for 30 years, and never, not once, have I ever "lost", "misplaced", or "had stolen" a gun. They're not like sunglasses, you don't just leave them laying around in public. I suppose having one pilfered from the car is more likely now, particularly when I have to leave it behind because of some stupid "no guns" sign. [cough] At any rate, you're right, the guns that are showing up in circulation in Chicago wouldn't seem to be coming from Average Joe Gun Buyer, who takes this thing pretty seriously. What happens to the guns that are seized? Is information about them widely available throughout the department? Or are they seized, and then later "disappear" somehow...? Seems to me some crafty types could do a little investigating of their own, to determine what's going on here. Us civilian types would be much obliged, and in return, we'll continue to be quietly vigilant, as we've been doing for some time now.
Blue lives matter!
Trace these weapons used in crimes. It's time to hold the negligent owner or seller liable too. If criminal court won't work, perhaps in civil court instead.
I am probably wrong but I thought that the CPD had a unit that traced every gun recovered. I have been retired for awhile but I remember filling out extra paperwork and sending it and copies of case, arrest and inventory reports to that unit. Guess they sent the people in that unit to other less stressful units because I never heard a thing about what was sent to them. The department probably wanted to cut down on the amount of paper used. Have to make sure that everyone has enough paper to get their daily copy of the crossword, Jumble and suduku or whatever they call it?
you have to remember that "they" don't really want to make a dent in crime as "they" get a big cut from it.
Common sense approach, let's do it!
How it is that a trope of TV cop shows is that guns "on the street" (how stupid is that cliche?) are cheap...yet who in his right mind is going to do a straw purchase, buying a Glock or M&P (or similar) for $600 and sell it out of his trunk for $100?
Everything people think they know about the ecosystem of guns is actually "information" they "learned" from TV plots and lying political soundbites. Never have so many people been so ill-informed.
The safest place for a gun is on its owner's hip. Every piece of legislative idiocy that interferes with that (from gun-free zones to expensive licensing schemes) simply sets up more guns to be stolen. Maybe that's the intent of "lawmakers."
Gang Intelligence actually has a team that is supposed to follow up on this sort of thing - the cage team. Problem is, like much of OCD, you don't have them hiring or recruiting from the best applicants. The hiring process in OCD is fixed, everyone knows it. The cage team unit is considered a highly sought team within a unit that you need a phone call to get into. So you have a bunch of guys with phone calls jockeying for a team that you need a phone call to get on. Only guys with the best phone calls get it. It's not judged on work history or performance, or god forbid, work ethic. While there are many quality cops in OCD, there are also many guys that are full of crap. Sadly, many guys are there to just take advantage of having a phone call and continue poor work ethic habits after getting into these units because they are entitled to do so. I don't recall the cage team doing anything significant.
It's the same thing with the flow of drugs.
Our so called leaders are pussies.
The large criminal cartels are probably bringing a lot of this stuff in. That's why you don't see any backtracking of the audit trail on the serial nos. of retrieved weapons.
The criminals give the politicians and law enforcement elite the "Plato o Plomo (Silver or Lead)" choice
They are ruthless bad motherfuckers who will kill your parents, wife kids.
And yet we have Chicago as a sanctuary city.
It's a damn war as just as brutal as our civil war.
Until those in a position to change things are prepared to take the gloves of and in some cases give all they have to give, nothing will change.
When Rham lectures us on "Chicago Values", he's talking the value of silver.
-Citizen
Outstanding fucking post. This has been stated for years and no one, not one politician who runs for any office and claims to be for gun control has discussed this aspect of illegal guns. For example, how the fuck guns continue to get stolen from rail yards. You ship weapons and there is no security guarding this cargo? It just goes missing and fuck it? But if a cell phone is stolen it can be pinged immediately and found? Almost sounds like the crack cocaine situation in California years ago. But that is for another blog.
We have a Unit in the department that is supposed to track suspicious guns.
The kicker
if an officer makes a lost case report this unit never knows a gun is missing.
If the case report is a theft and the gun is 1 of many item taken from the scene the unit does not know a thing.
If you call this unit filled with crack investigators they will tell you to fax the info.
These mushes think nobody double checks on them we are waiting for a major screw up. I forgot to mention you must be invited to join this super secret unit that hunts down straw buyers.
The only cases they jump on is if a patrol officer finds a boat load of guns then this unit appears out of NO where and claims they are going to track every purchase.
Garry probably does not even know where this unit work at!
They do track guns found on homicides which should take about an hour since they have access to the FED gun computer.
I think what you are saying is that big government doesn't work. President Regan said it best, "The Federal Government isn't the answer, it is the problem." The same applies to big state/county/city government.
"A straw buyer who is supplying guns to the gangs, etc. "
Really, are you not aware of how many aldermen would be forced to defend themselves in court if this was tracked? Seriously, how many of these scumbags in shitty hall are gang bangers working to protect their homies?
I am pretty sure that the requirement for background checks, which include the serial number of the gun being bought has a requirement that the information, particularly about the numbers on the gun be encrypted after a short period of time. Otherwise this would be a de facto national registration scheme. The results are always available for a legitimate law enforcement purpose. I believe that whoever supplies the background check (ATF?) once was in big trouble for keeping information past the deadline.
I will sit right here and wait patiently until that happens.
We had a program in place in the early 2000's Harvey Radney headed it. Where did it go?
Prior to the GCA of 1968 it was not a Federal requirement to have serial numbers on guns.Most compnaies did for inventory/accounting/repair.
All the paperwork that we fill out MUST stay in that form: paper.
The NRA through it's powerful lobby has made it illegal for the government to put together a computerized database that would make it easier to target who is buying or losing firearms.
When federal investigators attempt to track down a weapon it is a very tedious process.
Its not a frigin gun problem, its an attitude problem... So we should be focusing on attitude adjustments. OH wait a minute, we cant look at it that way anymore, so hence you got a attitude problem that leads to crime? In many cases, homicide.
As if there is no precedent.
Project exile kicked gun violence right in the taint:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Exile
"A couple high profile prosecutions might actually deter some of the "gun running"
Probably waiting for a concealed carry permit holder that spits on the sidewalk for that high profile court date. That would make Rahm & McJersey happy. Straw purchases are reported by FFLs but never seem to be prosecuted.
One "local" gun store doesn't allow "foreign" languages or cell phone use in the store, to discourage straw purchases. Two people come in to look at guns, they both must have a FOID card. The ACLU sent them a letter threatening to sue them for discrimination.
Don't go after the actual problem on the street. Too much work.
Elderly people, people on disability are right where you can find them. One name, one address. Can't move too fast either, some are pulling oxygen tanks or struggling in wheelchairs. They may be perfectly lucid and responsible, and could really use a weapon to protect themselves because they cannot fight back any other way, but THEY are the ones who will now be scrutinized for "mental issues."
Authority covers its a__ by controlling what is easiest for it control, while the ones clambering over someone's 15-foot chain-link to get at the hair-weave warehouse are left free to run wild.
I still want to know -- in a city of millions, how many decent, law-abiding people took part in the gun registration program while it existed -- while it morphed and worsened and became more and more difficult?
I still have one of the original Richard J. Daley registration cards from when this started. Just a little tan slip, you filled it in once, got a copy back, and that was it. As we know, it mutated into something worse than a passport application -- massive triple-part form demanding photos and notarizations and vision tests and certified checks -- every year. Get sick or have a family crisis and miss by one day, your guns became permanently unregisterable and subject to confiscation.
Ald. Dick Mell missed, but he got the City Council to extend the deadline in an "amnesty" that was solely for his personal purposes, so that he could keep his stash.
So how many well-intentioned, ordinary workin fools were gulled by this great social initiative? The only figure I've ever seen is "6,500" -- out of the whole city -- and if you had to call 911 the zone kindly announced to the town at large that there were "registered guns" at your exact address.
This is some important local history here. Anyone know the number?
OT:
Baltimore's officers got tossed under a bus..and now their former chief doesn't want to take his turn under the wheels. He makes comments about the rank and file and the mayor's office comes out and disagrees with him. SMH this may as well be an episode of "The Wire"
http://www.officer.com/news/12110616/batts-cops-took-a-knee-after-baltimore-riots
"They felt that I wasn't standing up for them," Batts said. "They want -- anything they do -- for the chiefs to stand up and say, 'My guys are right.'"
Washington, D.C., Police Chief Cathy Lanier recently faced a vote of no confidence from her officers, Batts noted, as she tried to implement changes in that department.
"Is this going to be the tactic, where police don't feel supported, so they allow the crime rate to go up, and the reformers lose their job?" Batts asked.
A spokesman for Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake said the mayor "couldn't disagree more."
"Our officers have served admirably both during and following the unrest, as was again demonstrated with their management of [Wednesday's] peaceful demonstrations," spokesman Kevin Harris said. "Arrests are up, and officers are committed more than ever to making Baltimore a safer city."
I would think it would be easy to create a database algorithm that would cross-reference serial numbers with buyers, sellers, stores, locations etc and ATF could easily determine the commonalities. Look for the connections across gun sales/losses.
Isn't that was Homeland supposedly does with all the phone/computer data? See where the nodes meet?
Here is the problem The USA needs to get ATF in gear about this and start locking up the straw purchasers and the rent a gun folks. that will solve alot of problems. Pookies GF runs over to Gary and gets a gun which she promply gives to pookie who cranks off a round and hits someone.
She spends a few years in the Orange is the new black series and the word will get out.
The Feds either don't care or don't have the manpower to sift through the 4800 serial numbers in Chicago then locate and interview all the people. Multiply that by fifty states ain't going to happen. Just like the war on drugs hasn't solved anything neither will the war on guns stop shootings and murders.
Check out this posting from today, SCC. Probation for 55 counts of buying firearms with a fake ID and reselling them, otherwise called straw purchases or gun running. Probation. Think more laws would be the answer?
http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/milwaukee-man-to-be-sentenced-on-gun-fraud-charge-b99560011z1-322283481.html
There are at least 300,000,000 guns in the USA. ALL modern ones were bought LEGALLY. Problem is once you sell a legally purchased gun to a FFL, unless they are part of special program of ATF, the FFL doesn't have to forward the 4473 to the ATF on a used gun sale. A gun could be bought and sold many times over it's lifetime. There are exceptions to this, but most of the older guns are nearly impossible to trace without devoting a few hundred officers and detectives to tracking down the buyers. But there are also millions of guns sitting on grandpa's closet shelf waiting for family to grab and use in some type of crime. A good idea might be letting the area gun teams actually go back to doing large amounts of search warrants to get the house full of guns that gangs have hidden all over the city...and not grandpa's rifle collection. As a department we are down by a few thousand guns annually over the last few years. We used to recover a whole lot more...even in years with gun buy-back days in them. Historically CPD has done a good job of getting gunrunners and illegal purchasers, but there are other types of people who are just as dangerous. Those are the people who fall on hard times and need a few bucks fast. If you look around your house for something to sell, the thing that holds it's value best is....guess what? A firearm. Guess what happens to the offenders in court. The judges feel sorry for them since they aren't already criminals. I'm going to stop now before I get even angrier. Sorry for ranting.
Garry probably does not even know where this unit work at!
The secret 3 sublevel at Homan Square. It is behind the pop machine.
This is the only place where the NRA shoots itself in the foot, right now you can't go after anyone using that data. Companies like LexusNexis could easily create a private sector tracking system for police depts to go after straw purchasers.
Ot: there will be a lawsuit on the lt test. Some could wear watches and some could not because they were digital. There was no rule that digital watches were not allowed. With no clocks in the room on a timed test means very unfair advantage to those that were allowed to wear their watch managing time. Also people unstapling their exercises while others followed directions and did not. For exercise B that means an unfair advantage with being able to organize the ton of material. Added to the fact that the instructions said cell phones were restricted but then they allowed them. Reach in the prisoner
bag and pull the cellphone out then go to the bathroom. People that were late were still allowed to take the test. Proctors screwed up this test.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
OT:
Baltimore's officers got tossed under a bus..and now their former chief doesn't want to take his turn under the wheels. He makes comments about the rank and file and the mayor's office comes out and disagrees with him. SMH this may as well be an episode of "The Wire"
http://www.officer.com/news/12110616/batts-cops-took-a-knee-after-baltimore-riots
"They felt that I wasn't standing up for them," Batts said. "They want -- anything they do -- for the chiefs to stand up and say, 'My guys are right.'"
Washington, D.C., Police Chief Cathy Lanier recently faced a vote of no confidence from her officers, Batts noted, as she tried to implement changes in that department.
"Is this going to be the tactic, where police don't feel supported, so they allow the crime rate to go up, and the reformers lose their job?" Batts asked.
~Snip~
"Our officers have served admirably both during and following the unrest, as was again demonstrated with their management of [Wednesday's] peaceful demonstrations," spokesman Kevin Harris said. "Arrests are up, and officers are committed more than ever to making Baltimore a safer city."
9/03/2015 11:16:00 AM
NYAAHH-HAHAHAHAH!
😜
Behold!
The tragic comedy playing at the
Theaters of Failure that are the Police Departments
of America's democrat-run large urban centers.
The mayors, the law enforcement executive class, the progressives
(who are now starting to feel concern about safety in their enclaves)
and local media outlets - are worried about their Police Departments
"Taking a Knee" in the name of self preservation?
Where in THEE FUCK do these ignorant asses roost at night?
"Taking a Knee" is an understatement if there ever was one.
Especially in the face of the ongoing, intentionally hotted-up lies and
bullshit of Black Lies Matter/The Police Are The Problem/More Rules,
More Restrictions, More Procedural Justice & Useless Feel-Goodery,
More "Federal Oversight" will fix everything that is wrong with The Police
and Policing in this country.
This is the best way for Policemen to fight back...
And m/fers don't like it to the point of being beside themselves.
Cue:
Mandating citizen contact and compiling statistical "touches"
while trying desperately to implement some type of "quota-ish
but it really isn't" management device that can be used as a weaponized
"Minimum Performance Standard & Efficiency" thingy against the
rank and file to make them "come in with numbers" while keeping mayors
and the police executive classes safe from life and wealth destroying
legal actions for instituting a quota.
Because we all know that "quota" is code for: "Your law-breaking-est lowest denominators
having increased exposure to The Police will thusly be exposed to the quest to satisfy
the angry and hungry Police Minimum Performance Standard & Efficiency gods."
As for the moron former chief in Baltimore?
Fuck him... He tossed those officers under the
bus and had the nerve to think that the officers
of that department would turn a willing blind eye
and stay hands-on with the lynch mob their fellow
officers were sacrificed to in the ultimate act of
Pandering and Appeasement?
Police like you have no friends.
Especially in these democrat controlled tribal areas
where the mayors and law enforcement executive class
are pandering, knee-walking cowards with no true north
on their moral compass.
Their needles point in any direction of convenience.
Throw the ATF officials in jail who we know ran guns across to mexico. Make it a big deal. Then let the other gun runners know they are next.
The problem is that Chicago, and many other Cities, Suburbs, and States, are run by Communists.
You could scrub 4473s, with a trip-wire on a lot of purchases -- guns cost money, and decent working folk on a budget often have to really wait and scrape and save up to get even one of something good, so very few are buying max-per-month -- and then stop by where things look, well, excessive. "Still got all these? Could we have a look?
Straw-man, OK, but this does not go after the car-trunk-market stolen s__t. Harder to find. Send in teams with decoys and see what comes up. Right on the street, where the real trouble is. Mess on that "social media," too, see what shakes out. The young blood, the dangerous ones, all have those phones.
..and, uh, "parents?" Quit lookin the other way about what's happening in your home. You often come up around the life yourself -- unless you want a big funeral and "repast" at AR's place when NuShawn there comes home in a rubber bag? I mean, are you into this, or would you rather leave those graduation photos on the mantle piece and have a beautiful live son to love and enjoy down the years as he becomes a man?
McStreetlight had the Table Of Guns out again the other day, and the four handguns I saw pictured were a throwback to pre-GCA '68, real off-brand crappers, weird cheap things with fake pearl handles. Mr. Bang It Off Sideways out there today, he want the latest high-grade product, comes down into the hood in five-gallon buckets full like the time Maxon got hit. Fortunately they grabbed that bunch fast in the Wood.
No one sensible wants to nail Grandma for Grandpa's old Police Positive in the night stand drawer (could probably use a pull-through, a bit of oil and some nice fresh ammo, though.) That'd be like a one-bagger or DOPW. Discretion. Get a gun that matters. Tune I'm playing is go strictly after the B-A-D mfers, known repeat offenders with blood on their hands. Plenty of them to go around, right?
Stay safe, brothers and sisters. I pray for all y'all these hot sticky nights when the corners fill up and the backlog and the bypass starts...
All Lives Matter.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/milwaukee-man-to-be-sentenced-on-gun-fraud-charge-b99560011z1-322283481.html
Awwwwwww, that sounds like a lot of work...
Obama's Justice Dept. is as serious about locking up 'straw buyers' as they are about investigating 'Black Lies Matter' for calling for cops to be killed. Here is a story about a guy with 55 Federal charges for 'straw buying' guns and selling them to criminals. DOJ allows him to plead to one charge, and he gets one year probation. All because he has among his life's ambitions, wait for it.....becoming a rap star. This was Milwaukee, so some of those guns probably ended up down in Chicago, but no matter, he has a dream, and there are already too many young men of color locked up.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/milwaukee-man-to-be-sentenced-on-gun-fraud-charge-b99560011z1-322283481.html
Anyone know what happened atCompstat today. I heard it went bad?
And slowly but surely, the federal government will amass a giant database locating every legal gun owner in the country: this is registration.
Well, you won't like the source, but this piece covers the basics. To sum up, the paperwork stays in paper form, so it's more or less useless. Put it in a database and you've created a gun registry, which pisses off the "government is keeping track of who has guns" crowd. So Washington found a middle ground where the government does a piss poor job of tracking guns and everyone's time is wasted.
http://www.npr.org/2013/01/08/168889491/gun-control-advocates-say-atfs-hands-have-been-tied
I received my foid card and am in the process of getting my concealed carry. My father (retired cpd) said that he doesn't think I need to register with the city or get any permit at all from the city. That the foid and ccl is all I need to carry in chicago. I've tried searching the Internet but everything I can find is outdated. The old man wants to go gun shopping with me and said I can buy one now with the foid and keep it in the house until I get my ccl. Is this true? Like I said I can't get a straight answer anywhere and don't want to get myself in a jam. Thanks in advance
In the question I just posted I meant to say concealed carry permit, not license. Just to save a few posts correcting me. Thanks
"Chicago marks deadliest day by gunfire in more than a decade"
By Peter Nickeas and Alexandra Chachkevitch
NYAAAH-HAHAHAHAAAH!
The fibune "paywalls" another story about the
brains, blood and shit-mud flowing freely in Chicago's gutters.
The butcher's bill for Wednesday was what?
A baker's dozen killed and twice that number wounded?
So... Was this uncomfortable fact paywalled in a bid to salvage
a bit of legitimacy?
Or was it the usual orders by city hall to either not
report on it or at least paywall it to keep away from
the prying eyes of the churls? Especially those
wild-assed, rebellious cops who are loving how
the world's smartest mayor and law enforcement
ceo just have no answers for this shit other than
continuing peeling away resources and manpower
from front-line Policing to achieve "efficiencies"
while doing all they can to keep to keep the public
unaware that Public Safety in Chicago is being
strip-mined and plowed under so Rahm can strut,
shit and crow like the puny bantam rooster he is
about how he "managed" CPD and "re-allocated"
Billions from Public Safety to the eye-watering
assortment of breads, circuses, fifty-foot clowns
and lighting circa 1871 city mock-ups on fire in
the middle of the Chicago River...
Heh...
As much as Rahm hates Policemen and has no personal
use for them, he surely has had sore need of them as he is
being put to fright and flight from those sham town hall meetings
by people coming to the realization that they've been sold a bill of
goods having voted him to office twice.
By all rights, he should have been a none/one term mayor.
Viva Hate.
Police like you have no friends.
Survive. Escape.
Here's to local media continuing it's never ending,
rearward facing, bound & gagged, ass-naked slide
down the splintery spiral bannister of irrelevancy.
Could some of these guns have been part of the 'Fast & Furious' program?
For your information, this has been tried before.
From the Department of Justice website (http://www.justice.gov/archive/oip/foiapost/2002foiapost28.htm). In 2000, the City of Chicago filed a FOIA request with ATF for complete access to two law enforcement databases -- ATF's Trace and Multiple Sales Databases -- pertaining to the sale and use of firearms. ATF, which is part of the Department of the Treasury, cooperated with the City by providing much data pertaining to the Chicago area, as a matter of administrative discretion, but it refused to provide complete access to the two databases on a nationwide basis. The City sued the ATF in federal court. The ATF did not prevail at the District Court, or the Appellate Court.
The case went to the Supreme Court of the United States (Case No. No. 02-322), where the Appellate Court decision was reversed. The reversal was required by the 2003 Appropriations Law. Specifically, on February 20, 2003, President Bush signed into law the Consolidated Appropriations Resolution, 2003 (H.R. J. Res. 2, 108th Cong., 1st Sess. (enacted)). Section 644 of that law provides: No funds appropriated under this Act or any other Act with respect to any fiscal year shall be available to take any action based upon any provision of 5 U.S.C. 552 with respect to records collected or maintained pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 846(b), 923(g)(3) or 923(g)(7), or provided by Federal, state, local, or foreign law enforcement agencies in connection with arson or explosives incidents or the tracing of a firearm, except that such records may continue to be disclosed to the extent and in the manner that records so collected, maintained, or obtained have been disclosed under 5 U.S.C. 552 prior to the date of the enactment of this Act. In addition, the Supreme Court held that ATF properly withheld individuals' names and address pursuant to privacy interests under FOIA.
A copy of the US Supreme Court's decision can be found here: http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/news/amicus0203/sgreply.pdf
You are forgetting something. If they arrest gun-runners, straw buyers, etc.,and the number of guns on the street goes DOWN, then there is no need for new gun laws and the liberal anti-gun agenda will never reach its goal of no guns anywhere for anybody. That's also the reason these liberal judges let felons walk for gun crimes. If he gets out and kills with a gun, then they can pound their fist for stricter gun laws! These liberals are truly mentally sick individuals, they do think like this.
What you are proposing is for the department, the pols, to solve a problem that they don't want to solve; since they need the problem to incite the public into believing that tougher gun laws will solve the problem of gun violence. Providing a solution does not work on behalf of the demorat agenda. Talk the talk, but never walk the walk.
Anonymous Peering Down The Memory Hole With An Old Kel-Lite said...
I still want to know -- in a city of millions, how many decent, law-abiding people took part in the gun registration program while it existed -- while it morphed and worsened and became more and more difficult?
So how many well-intentioned, ordinary workin fools were gulled by this great social initiative? The only figure I've ever seen is "6,500" registered guns".
This is some important local history here. Anyone know the number?
9/03/2015 11:08:00 AM
While I don't know and admit that I have no exact way of knowing, I believe that the actual number of guns registered was more than 6,500.
First of all, Chicago had (really had) about 13,000 police officers. Every one of them had at least one gun. Most likely more. Say an average of 3. Department requirement that they be registered. Sometimes registration copy had to be shown during inspection.
Then people whose work required them to have a registered gun. Like security guards.
But if you weren't the police or a security guard, I doubt that many if any registered their guns. Why would they?
The ATF under the Obummer administration was responsible for operation fast and furious, funneling U.S.
guns to Mexican cartels. The idea was that, when the cartels used them to murder innocent people, those guns would then be traced back to the U.S. and the administration could argue for the senate to pass the UN small arms treaty, which would eventually cancel out the 2nd amendment. Why then should we believe that they aren't actively funneling weapons to street gangs to create a crisis that necessitates altering or repealing the 2nd amendment. Maybe that is why they aren't eager to trace the guns recovered from gang members.
Anonymous said...
This is the only place where the NRA shoots itself in the foot, right now you can't go after anyone using that data. Companies like LexusNexis could easily create a private sector tracking system for police depts to go after straw purchasers.
9/03/2015 12:53:00 PM
Not the NRA...it was Congress.The GCA of 1968 prohibits BATFE from keeping a database and for good reasons.It wont work.The State of Maryland shut down its shell case ID system because it was costly and solved ZERO cases.
Gun registry? So in times of emergency, like Katrina, the cops can go door to door and confiscate your firearms at a time when you need them the most. No thanks!!!
New Orleans PD actions: "Given the lawlessness that pervaded New Orleans after the damage wreaked by Katrina and her floodwaters, Police Superintendent P. Edwin Compass III was quoted as saying only law-enforcement personnel would be allowed to have weapons."
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2005/sep/23/20050923-105240-4724r/?page=all
What's next Garry McDrunky and Rahm saying shootings are up so it's time to confiscate all firearms. The registry sounds nice in theory but all it will end up doing, like many gun laws, is harm the law abiding owner and not affect the criminals.
Garry probably does not even know where this unit work at!
The secret 3 sublevel at Homan Square. It is behind the pop machine.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Wrong brother, that relocated as of 02-Jan 2015. You know the set up there, go East, of the old Sears-craftsman tool bldg., and under the over pass , still within property live. Pull on to the steel slab with your vehicle for a weigh in, you know the access code. And you will be then transported to the bed rock location. Fully functional 24/7.
".... Also people unstapling their exercises...."
There were two sets of written directions- the general ones which proctor read out loud---and the introductory ones in the envelope...and being allowed to remove staple/organize material/take notes was included- with caveat only what was written in booklet would be counted
Not sure how I feel about the watch decision--it was not pre-published and while we were first told all watches into bag---we were then told analog watches were okay to wear....can see the logic though--all electronics were to be bagged
Personally- I goofed up by keeping my highlighter and third and fourth pencils in the bag---for some reason I thought it was only 2 pencils on the desk
Am still hopeful that the grievance goes no where---it wasn't an impossible test
I received my foid card and am in the process of getting my concealed carry. My father (retired cpd) said that he doesn't think I need to register with the city or get any permit at all from the city. That the foid and ccl is all I need to carry in chicago. I've tried searching the Internet but everything I can find is outdated. The old man wants to go gun shopping with me and said I can buy one now with the foid and keep it in the house until I get my ccl. Is this true? Like I said I can't get a straight answer anywhere and don't want to get myself in a jam. Thanks in advance
9/03/2015 07:16:00 PM
The old man is right on the money, your good to go with the purchase.
"This is the only place where the NRA shoots itself in the foot, right now you can't go after anyone using that data. Companies like LexusNexis could easily create a private sector tracking system for police depts to go after straw purchasers."
I'm one of those liberals you so often complain about, SCC. I think we have found common ground here. Wouldn't it be nice if we worked together to address this?
Anonymous said...
I received my foid card and am in the process of getting my concealed carry. My father (retired cpd) said that he doesn't think I need to register with the city or get any permit at all from the city. That the foid and ccl is all I need to carry in chicago. I've tried searching the Internet but everything I can find is outdated. The old man wants to go gun shopping with me and said I can buy one now with the foid and keep it in the house until I get my ccl. Is this true? Like I said I can't get a straight answer anywhere and don't want to get myself in a jam. Thanks in advance
9/03/2015 07:16:00 PM
Your father is right. And as of a month or so ago, you don't need to carry the FOID with you once you have the CCL. You DO now need to proactively inform a police officer if you are stopped (e.g., during a traffic stop). Some people have suggested that when you hand over your license, you include the CCL with it. The officer will ask you if you are carrying, and if yes, is empowered to secure the weapon if he/she deems it necessary, until the end of your encounter. Go to the Illinois State Rifle Association website for the latest on this subject.
Politeness and cooperation. Key words for people who CC.
No warranty expressed or implied; I'm neither a cop nor a lawyer.
PS: try to find a gun shop that rents guns to try out. You'll probably make a better purchase that way.
PPS: for the police officers here: If you stop a CC licensee who is carrying, while you are legally empowered to secure the gun, please consider leaving it where it is if the licensee is carrying the gun securely in a holster. Reminding them that it's just common sense that they visibly keep their hands away from the area of the gun and remain in your sight at all times hopefully is the safest for all. CCL holders are your allies.
I love these no gun signs. How stupid can they be? The only people who obey them are the law biding people who you have no problem with. So if a bad guy comes in and threatens your life with a gun, the good guy who may also be there can't help you and maybe save your life because you don't want him to have his gun. Makes sense!
and yet CPD still arrests and charges and helps prosecute otherwise law abiding citizens with training and who spent a ton of money getting a valid concealed carry license just for having their pistol with them in posted no gun zones. or in non posted no gun zones. or in areas that are 100% valid to carry a concealed firearm. stfu with being hypocritical. you keep enforcing unconstitutional laws, and arresting the 'good' people who just want to protect themselves and who jump through RIDICULOUS hoops in order to do so. clap clap clap
Like I said I can't get a straight answer anywhere and don't want to get myself in a jam. Thanks in advance
9/03/2015 07:16:00 PM First go to the I.S.P.(Illinois State Police) website, there is a firearms section that will answer your questions.Next take Dad to the range and rent a 38 special in 2 inch (snub) a mid size semi-auto in .380,9mm,45 acp etc.and try them out with your Dad watching your safety.You are looking for something that fits YOUR hand,is in a caliber you can control and hit with and is the proper size to carry all day(not easy).You would be smart to stop after that not buy anything or "practice" shooting until after you take your CCL class and you have the knowledge to make a proper purchase (you do not need to have a firearm to take a CCL class,you can rent,borrow from instructor etc for live fire) If you buy anyway,sit down and read ALL instruction paper work that is included with your firearm,DO NOT load it until you have learned to operate the firearm.When you take your CCL class you will be taught safety,the law (all your questions will now have answers)and all the how to's. Do not begin your instruction with anyone except for an NRA certified instructor,the basics (safety,form) will be with you forever and if someone with good intentions gives it to you wrong,you will stay wrong.You will learn very little if you run to the range with your buddies and they "teach " you all they know, wait and learn the correct way. good luck and God bless your retired Father....35 year instructor.
Good question 7:16, it's hard to get a straight answer. Anyone know?
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I received my foid card and am in the process of getting my concealed carry. My father (retired cpd) said that he doesn't think I need to register with the city or get any permit at all from the city. That the foid and ccl is all I need to carry in chicago. I've tried searching the Internet but everything I can find is outdated. The old man wants to go gun shopping with me and said I can buy one now with the foid and keep it in the house until I get my ccl. Is this true? Like I said I can't get a straight answer anywhere and don't want to get myself in a jam. Thanks in advance
9/03/2015 07:16:00 PM
You need a valid FOID to legally be in possession of a firearm in Illinois. However, it is legal to let someone without a FOID use your weapon if you're on private property and accompany them, e.g. gun range. Many ranges do however require that they have a FOID.
Chicago's gun registration scheme was ruled unconstitutional back in 2010. See the McDonald decision (also Heller), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._City_of_Chicago#Regulations_challenged
The logic is pretty simple, you don't need permission from government to exercise your God-given rights. For example, we don't require people to register with an authority in order to exercise their First Amendment rights.
As for carrying, you only need a CCL if you're carrying in a state that's ready to fire. You can transport without a CCL so long as you have a valid FOID, your weapon is unloaded and in a case. The definition of a "case" isn't specified. There was someone charged a few years ago with UUW for having an unloaded handgun in the center console of his vehicle. He beat the charge because the judge ruled the closed center console is a case. Anita was pretty pissed about that and wanted the General Assembly to rewrite the law, I'm not sure if that ever went anywhere.
https://www.dnr.illinois.gov/hunting/Documents/TransportYourFirearmLegally.pdf
http://www.pjstar.com/article/20091008/NEWS/310089775
You can also buy fanny packs that are designed to allow you to be in compliance with transport laws, but still get to your weapon quickly. You're rolling the dice on that one if you don't have a CCL and end up needing to use the weapon.
I don't know who you've been talking to, but I would suggest you join the ISRA and call them with any questions you have.
I agree
It should be a lawsuit on the Lt exam
We were clearly instructed not to take package apart but yet many did but suffered no damages. I lost time flipping back and forth
Straight nonsense and BS
Registration is pretext to confiscation.
In 1933, the ultimate extremist group, led by Adolf Hitler, seized power and used the records to identify, disarm, and attack political opponents and Jews. Constitutional rights were suspended, and mass searches for and seizures of guns and dissident publications ensued. Police revoked gun licenses of Social Democrats and others who were not “politically reliable.”
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/365103/how-nazis-used-gun-control-stephen-p-halbrook
I'm my room you weren't able to unstaple your exercises....the proctor stated that
I agree in saying it would be an unfair advantage
Don't give a fuck, SCC.
I have 31,000 rounds stored here in Chiraq and at my final redoubt position out of state.
All that matters is that the pension checks keep coming.
The Italian American Police Association is hosting Martin Preib on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 7:00 PM. As you know Martin is a Chicago cop, award-winning writer and author of "The Wagon and Other Stories From the City". Martin takes on the wrongful conviction movement by re-investigating several key cases like the Anthony Porter exoneration for a double homicide and concludes the most influential wrongful conviction case was a fraud. Non-members are welcome to attend. The meeting includes an all you can eat buffet for $13.00 per person.
More information go to: http://iapa-il.org/news/news.htm
"I'm one of those liberals you so often complain about"
Get lost. There will never be a national gun registry. The gun grabbers push it for both confiscation purposes (e.g. Katrina) and publishing maps of gun owners addresses (e.g. New York). Plus tracking a gun back is one thing, proving someone knowingly sold it to a criminal is another. And any straw buyers they find now get off anyway.
The good news is there are over 300 million guns in the US and those will never be in a database. There have been 170 millions guns purchased since 1991 and the murder rate is down 50% in that same period in the US.
How about a gang member registration database? Then you can confiscate and incarcerate them.
Who here would support a state licensing system for gun dealers?
"Who here would support a state licensing system for gun dealers?"
Nope. The government only makes things worse. They are never the solution, only the problem.
How about holding violent criminals accountable and keeping them in the slammer.
"Who here would support a state licensing system for gun dealers?"
The Fed already require licensing.
"While I don't know and admit that I have no exact way of knowing, I believe that the actual number of guns registered was more than 6,500.
"First of all, Chicago had (really had) about 13,000 police officers. Every one of them had at least one gun. Most likely more. Say an average of 3. Department requirement that they be registered. Sometimes registration copy had to be shown during inspection.
"Then people whose work required them to have a registered gun. Like security guards."
9/04/2015 12:31:00 AM
Thanks! I was thinking more of non-LEO or security, just ordinary citizens who ran all over town trying to comply with a system that made it increasingly difficult to do so.
"But if you weren't the police or a security guard, I doubt that many if any registered their guns. Why would they?"
Honest. Law-abiding. Well-intentioned. Nothing to hide. One name, one address. Didn't want to get into trouble.
THAT is the figure I'm interested in.
Stay safe this warm weekend, my man.
P.S. -- remember when lack of city registration and/or carrying -- redefined as USE (UUW) went from a misdemeanor to a felony? Got a lot of ordinary people's attention, got them justifiably scared, got them to leave it at home...as violent crime from the don't-give-a-s__t bustouts went up and up...
A real success all the way around, huh? That's why I want to see this documented. Anyone with info, kick it in.
"Who here would support a state licensing system for gun dealers?"
9/05/2015 08:34:00 AM
STATE? It's already federal. FFL.
"...rent a 38 special in 2 inch (snub)"
9/04/2015 11:24:00 AM
One of the best choices there is. Gotta keep after the cleaning/lubrication a little more, but no big thing.
Given the nature here, a double-action-only ("hammerless") model is a great choice. No external hammer for thumb to be messin with at time of stress -- don't need to be shooting single-action target style at 7 feet range.
Proper holster is good. If not, run the "crevice tool" of the vacuum cleaner into the carry pocket occasionally, and don't ever put anything but the weapon into that pocket. No pens, loose change, other crap to feel around/confuse/possibly cause a jam (like a dime in the works will do with an older Mod. 49.) Just the weapon.
Good +p, Rem 125 gr Silvertip -- end of the world when that goes off on a quiet street...be ready for the flash.
Outlaw criminals ...not guns.
9/05/2015 04:40:00 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
"...rent a 38 special in 2 inch (snub)"
9/04/2015 11:24:00 AM
One of the best choices there is. Gotta keep after the cleaning/lubrication a little more, but no big thing.
Given the nature here, a double-action-only ("hammerless") model is a great choice. No external hammer for thumb to be messin with at time of stress -- don't need to be shooting single-action target style at 7 feet range.
Proper holster is good. If not, run the "crevice tool" of the vacuum cleaner into the carry pocket occasionally, and don't ever put anything but the weapon into that pocket. No pens, loose change, other crap to feel around/confuse/possibly cause a jam (like a dime in the works will do with an older Mod. 49.) Just the weapon.
Good +p, Rem 125 gr Silvertip -- end of the world when that goes off on a quiet street...be ready for the flash.
9/05/2015 04:55:00 PM
Yup...
S&W Bodyguard or Centennial is THE ticket for pocket carry.
Get one of those DiSantis neoprene pocket holsters.
The exterior is "grabby" and the interior is slick so you
can draw without turning your own pocket inside-out.
Any modern high performance +P JHP is viable but there's
an old school load that we've taken a serious liking to.
It's a modern interpretation of the old .38/.44 Heavy Duty.
You can say it was the parent cartridge of the .357 Magnum.
A 158gr. hard cast Keith bullet with a gas check and loaded
at 1250 fps so your snub will spit these at @ 1100 or so.
Designed to be a formidable and deep penetrating
shit knocker-outer.
Keith bullets are designed to hit hard, crush tissue, break bones
and penetrate deep if not shoot through... It's a hunting bullet.
Massive blood loss/catastrophic drop in blood pressure due to
entry and exit wounds.
But where Keith bullets really the cat's pajamas are when they're the
240gr. in .44 Special and 255 to 270gr. in .45 Colt.
Heavy hard cast bullets at @ 900 to 1100 fps
have saved many a man's bacon since the
1847 .44 Colt-Walker came into being.
The .38/.44 Heavy Duty does haul the mail though...
Even more so in full sized revolvers.
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