Dispersal Order Dead?
We've had a couple bullshit sessions at certain establishments over the past few weeks and so have a lot of other coppers we know of. Some have written us, others have commented. We go this e-mail recently. We're trimming it down considerably for space and ease of reading:
- Good morning, Just wanted to give you an idea for a post about something the bosses are now telling the po's in roll call this week. LT. [...] on 3rd watch has been preaching since the first of the year that if we do any ISR reports we are out of our minds and we are crazy. That the ACLU has been contacting people and asking them questions about why they were stopped and if the got their receipt.
It's obvious their clearly fishing to make an example of a police officer. He specifically said on more than one occasion that just being a member of a gang is not enough reasonable suspicion to conduct an Investigatory street stop (which he is 100% correct on)
This week in roll call he tells the troops that the department wants us to start doing gang dispersals. I read the g.o. on the ISR took the training and read the small white card on how to complete the gang dispersal From what I read the directions from the card on gang dispersals is a direct violation of the ISR General order. Being a gang member is not enough reasonable suspicion to conduct a street stop. Therefore to conduct a stop for a gang dispersal is a clear violation of their civil rights when a po has no reasonable belief a crime has occurred is occurring or is about to occur.
Standing on a street corner is something the ACLU has defended for years. We pretty much can't even enforce loitering restrictions due to Freedom of Assembly laws. And belonging to a gang, well, that's another ACLU trigger - Freedom of Association.
If you pull-up on the corner, those two items aren't enough to justify any sort of stop and/or frisk. Unless they're openly dealing dope or obstructing traffic (and they'd be morons if they were doing it right in front of you), what do you have? Zip. You might park a short distance away and observe them (no binoculars - that's not allowed), but this is what the ACLU, the city and the revrunds wanted.
If you're in one of the so-called "faster" districts, that radio isn't going to stop broadcasting. You've got another two jobs stacked and once the weather warms up, barely time for lunch. Your job is to patrol and that's what you'll be returning to. Maybe an ANOV for littering or pissing in the alley, maybe a mover or two you happen to see, maybe some parkers on your beat. But investigating the dope boys? No desire to be stuck doing an hour worth of paper on a stop you might spend ten minutes on. We would call it a "poor rate of return," that is to say the downside far outweighs any benefit to the individual officer. But the bosses have started up with their "numbers driven policing" again, even though they'll never actually give you a number to shut them up.
So what is the feeling here? Does the ISR order pretty much eliminate the Gang/Narcotic Loitering order as a tool to disperse hoodlums on the corners? And more importantly, does this lack of direction have a direct consequence of raising the number of homicides, since the corners are now full of targets? Did we just find De-Escalante's missing puzzle piece?
If you pull-up on the corner, those two items aren't enough to justify any sort of stop and/or frisk. Unless they're openly dealing dope or obstructing traffic (and they'd be morons if they were doing it right in front of you), what do you have? Zip. You might park a short distance away and observe them (no binoculars - that's not allowed), but this is what the ACLU, the city and the revrunds wanted.
If you're in one of the so-called "faster" districts, that radio isn't going to stop broadcasting. You've got another two jobs stacked and once the weather warms up, barely time for lunch. Your job is to patrol and that's what you'll be returning to. Maybe an ANOV for littering or pissing in the alley, maybe a mover or two you happen to see, maybe some parkers on your beat. But investigating the dope boys? No desire to be stuck doing an hour worth of paper on a stop you might spend ten minutes on. We would call it a "poor rate of return," that is to say the downside far outweighs any benefit to the individual officer. But the bosses have started up with their "numbers driven policing" again, even though they'll never actually give you a number to shut them up.
So what is the feeling here? Does the ISR order pretty much eliminate the Gang/Narcotic Loitering order as a tool to disperse hoodlums on the corners? And more importantly, does this lack of direction have a direct consequence of raising the number of homicides, since the corners are now full of targets? Did we just find De-Escalante's missing puzzle piece?
Labels: department issues
posted by SCC at 12:21 AM
68 Comments:
Ok here are my thoughts about it... Who cares? Stop doing work. The end.
The criminals have won.
Off topic. If you idiots vote for dean Angelo again you're all nuts. He has screwed over hundreds of coppers in the past week. He got caught red handed lying to the faces of many guys who went down to demand answers from him. Now he opens his mouth to the media and it blows up in his face. Dean, if you don't make it right you and everyone else around you will be gone. You will have several hundred coppers voting against you. In fact, guys are already volunteering to force guys and collect their ballots at work and mail them themselves. Not to mention all those guys who have family in the job and retirees they are related to who they will turn against you and all your people. Make it right. I don't care what you have to do, but you better get it done by the third period. Stop with the lies dean. Do it or you, your kid and everyone else is gone. We have some very very motivated people who will pool people together to make sure you are out.
The only people who are that stupid to believe that the rising shootings and murder rate in this city is without a doubt directly related to the ACLU and what our spineless leaders gave them is the aclu themselves. Karen seeley is happy and proud that her and her organization will lead to the murder of at least 200 members of the community. Still makes me laugh how all those morons preach responsibility but none of them ever accept it theirselves
Proactive policing means looking for crime.
No one on here would want their wife, mother, kids and or friends messed with.
If they are obvious criminals than you must have some type of probable cause. That's the way it's always been. If your doing your job correct than keep doing it.
If you are just stopping people without any reasonable suspicion than you should stop doing that because you probably end up in court.
The city is falling into mayhem and Rahm is like a goat leading the sheep to slaughter!
We are all domed!
Watch the movie "Need full thing"!
And you will get the idea.....
Sounds like a lieutenant that actually passed a test. Gang and narcotic loitering was always an unconstitutional law. Clearing a corner was always illegal but something the citizens wanted the police to do. Now the citizens want us to leave the gangbangers and druggies alone so guess what? If the gangbangers are high as kites and shouting gang slogans at 3AM and you don't like it? You can ask them to keep it down because WE CAN'T. Freedom of assembly, freedom of association, freedom to be an asshole. I don't like it. I can't stand gangbangers, but the citizens have spoken. You reap what you have sown.
Trump 2016
The dope boys know the deal. They seem to be smirking & strutting a little bit more. Honest citizens are questioning me at Starbucks & I haven't been bought a coffee in weeks!
The days of tough guy , seat of your pants policing are finished .
The policeman of tomorrow will be a combination of detective and social worker with a touch of timidly restrained enforcer.
Great post!
Yes I believe it does.. the white card on gang dispersals states you must verify that the subject is in a gang by conducting a name check. If you have no reasonable suspicion asking him for his id and detaining him to verify he's in a gang is a violation of his rights.
I don't believe that because the city deems a corner a "hot spot" is enough to stop someone that is standing on it.
The G.O. on the ISR does mention gang dispersals in parentheses however I believe the post is correct if you stop someone just on the fact their on the designated hot spot I do not believe that is enough reasonable suspicion to obtain an id and conduct a name check.
It totally sounds like a grey area to me that will NOT work positively for the police if a complaint ends up coming out of it.
Not to mention I'm sure the ACLU sees it as a clear violation and I'm sure they will contact whoevers stopped to verify it.
Not worth the risk with the way things are going
Rahms has invited in the Feds, the Lori lightfoot team,the revs,the aclu, opened the floodgates of information to the media, and did anyone expect situation normal? 9161 (street coppers) are in protect each other in order to keep our assets,homes,jobs,families,freedom from being taken away!
In typical boss like fashion they verbalize their request for BS stats knowing they won't be on the hook when the POs get jammed for getting them their numbers. Same old tricks. They never put it in writing. So they won't be there for our law suits and have to "have our backs" as they love to say. We must follow the law and constitution. Not some bosses off the record request.
great point SCC
in my opinion i would say you can not conduct a name check to see if the person is a member of a gang just because their standing on a corner that the city claims is a designated hot spot.
if you ask him for their id's and they tell you to fuck off and they beef (especially once they all get wind of what the ACLU is doing) some coppers are gonna have a problem. lets be honest no copper is gonna fill out a "jon doe" ISR for that bullshit.
But im sure the ACLU will run with that for sure
they said it themselves something along the lines of their happy street stops are down
please be careful out there my brothers and sisters this shit aint worth it fuck the hot spots let them stand there.
The aclu needs to tell people to stop calling 911 to complain about these innocent youths standing on the corner that are "up to no good."
Who cares what the shit-heads do in their hood. You or your family don't live there. With all that's going on about police being the problem, I'm all for shit-heads hanging out on their corners now. The more hanging on the corner, the more to get shot.
Guess what? This topic means absolutely nothing to me and many, many other coppers for one simple reason...
ain't no motherfuckers hanging on corners 24/7 where we live.
I quit even remotely caring about what the ghetto savages do quite some time ago. And current events serve as a constant reminder that I've made the right choice in leaving the animals to their own devices.
They can beat, rob, rape, kill, sell dope, steal, burgle and gang bang to their little hearts' content as long as they keep it as contained to 'their' 'hoods as possible. Although, an occasional savage-on-savage murder in the lobby of a ritzy hotel is all good in my book as it demonstrates what we've known forever.
As with Contact Cards and other numbers-driven activity, I knew 'Gang Dispersals' were bullshit from day one, and I'm proud to say I haven't done a single one of either.
They're getting what they've been asking for, so unless it directly effects YOUR neighborhood or quality of life, let it burn.
I/F (Irrefutably Fetal)
They don't want you to do anything.
Too Bad they cannot convince the criminals to do the same.
Give the city what they want. Go to work and just do the bare minimum. Stay safe and go home at the end of your tour the same way you came in. Collect your check on the 1st and the 15th. Take your days off and take care of your family. Give the people of Chicago the police department they deserve. The city has caved in to the political and religious hustlers. If you try to do police work you will be fired or go to jail. Not worth it.
The only safe thing to do is: stay fetal.
Yes the ACLU might be right!
The ACLU said the 80-90% of street stops and pad downs are conducted on blacks in the City. They claim it has been going on for years without any legal basis. While, 80-90% of shootings and homicides in the City, are committed by blacks. There seems to be a direct correlation here. Once the Police stop you, you become so enraged or disillusioned you have to go out and shoot or kill someone in the neighborhood. So, stopping the street stops and pat downs of blacks should [ACLU logic] stop the killing and maiming of South and West side residences. Hey give it a try what’s the worst that could happen? The numbers go up or we loose a couple more ‘just about to turn his life around’ gang banger?
Just stay safe. I’m retired CPD and moving the hell out of this state!
OT: Is there any truth to the rumors that Obama want to give this State back to the Indians? But they said that they have been screwed enough and told him to keep it!
Standing on a street corner is something the ACLU has defended for years. We pretty much can't even enforce loitering restrictions due to Freedom of Assembly laws. And belonging to a gang, well, that's another ACLU trigger - Freedom of Association.
“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” (John Adams, October 11, 1798.)
Just pick up the lifeless and decrepit bodies they leave behind and be done with it.
Surveys are created to conform to the assumption behind them.
- Marijuana helps people and has absolutely nothing to do with El Chapo
- It is time to encourage transgender education in public schools
- Cops shoot unarmed black men
Polling and surveys are shiny objects in the deep water for all of us fish.
Stay fetal.
I say don't worry about it--just smile and wave at the dope boys on the corner. They've won this battle and maybe the war.
Don't disperse anything. Who cares?
DO NOTHING, let the BODY BAGS grow, this is what , these fuck's want!
This week in roll call he tells the troops that the department wants us to start doing gang dispersals.\
--------
Who is "the department"? Show it to me in writing boss, or don't even bring it up. And even once you show it to me in writing, you can still kiss my butt.
Not sure why we are even in bed with the ACLU - a private institution. It's not like they are the Feds
This department is in dire need of a refresher on reasonable suspicion and probable cause. Now that the "old school" ways are dead, unless you're pathetically stupid, you had better wrap your heads around documenting exactly what you had when you detained or searched someone. This is what they want, and this is what you must do as a public servant. The crime rate will spike, but it is what they want. Send your thanks to the communists at the ACLU.
As a retired police officer of 13 years, and I might add, an aggressive one, I feel sorry for those still working and for the good citizens who live in the city. All of you are about to catch hell in the coming months. The liberals have destroyed the police department as much as the political class destroyed it by making it a patronage army led by clouted incompetents. It is the end of good policing of aggressive policing in this town, at least for another generation. The calls for reform of the department seem to have ignored the political controls that have contributed to so much of the dysfunction in past years. I guess it is OK to keep allowing the democrats to promote those they want as long as we have " diversity". Well, I can say that I have known many fine black and Hispanic officers both male and female, as well as white that never were promoted and sure as hell could have done a good job. I was a lieutenant when I retired and many finer people then me never were promoted. I sure hope real reform does come to the department and none too soon. Keep the fingers of city hall off of the CPD>
Just had the ISR training at headquarters the other night. Every ISR you do is available and kept on file. Say you do an ISR and your SGT. kicks it back for lack of PC or he/she tells you to make minor adjustments in your narrative to comply with what is needed so your justified in your stop. That original ISR is kept on file and subject to FOIA as well as the revised one. My question was are these ISR's going to be part of the individuals court files, like the case and arrest reports, inventories, lab results etc... I was told not at this time but that there's nothing holding a defense attorney from requesting any and all ISR's via FOIA. So you have your original ISR that may be lacking in PC that was rejected that the defense has access to and can pick apart and use against you. "Which one is correct officer your original narrative as to why you stopped my client or your revised ISR or your case report narrative/arrest report narrative? Are you lying on your paper work officer, isn't that a rule 14 violation officer? Some things can be explained away but this just seems like more ammo to be fired at the officers.
DO NOT do any dispersals. If they are committing a crime, lock them up. But do not tell an American citizen they cannot stand on a corner on the public way.
"If you pull-up on the corner, "
Bottom line: DO NOT pull-up on any corner!
Gear-up: Blinders on and stay fetal.
And herein lies the real problem. this being a direct quote from the order " Being a gang member is not enough REASONABLE suspicion to conduct a street stop. If you cannot figure out what is wrong with this logic then you need another line of work. If you violate this inane order then you need another line of work, they are telling you in plain and certain language they do not want the problem addressed.
And before you try preaching to me and telling me how to get around this, know this the feds will take everything you own, that's their job they are not on your side.
If you're right the bosses will back you, Remember Darren Wilson? he will never work in law enforcement again and he was right
Retired and praying for you guys and girls
Not a cop here but what happens if you just get out of the car and start talking to the a-holes on the corner. They want community policing, well you are just being friendly to them....What's up bro, what's going on tonight....just thought we would hang out with you guys for a while.
Make them nervous enough to disperse.
Particular tact on zone 12 still do dispersals and hand isr receipt. I guess some people need to learn the hard way.
Im retired. My advice is dont do anything.
If you're in cd, you have to ask yourself what's more important,
wearing blue jeans or wearing orange?
Take the dump.
Working a district must be a lot less stressful now.
Hopefully 010th District Tact and other hard chargers on the watch in 010 will read this blog post and finally get the point. Unreal the amount of chases and crap they keep on doing and getting into out there. When a few get thrown under the bus by the DOJ and Mayor, maybe they'll finally wake up! Why anyone is doing more than the required work (answer calls, write reports, arrest on signed complaints, etc;) is friggen beyond me. Most logical thinking officers in this department have no patience for these hard charging overachievers out there still running and gunning, nor do the majority of us want anything to do with any of their arrests or bullcrap on the street. It's all about doing the basic minimum required out there to not get in trouble, because even doing the right thing may be perceived as excessive or wrong these days....very sad.
Stay fetal my friends. The less you do with the citizens, the less the ACLU can question. Go home safely, enjoy your families, let the ACLU handle the negro violence. When enough people get tired of the shootings the focus will slowly turn back in you favor.
So gang members can't be stopped because they are gang members.
If we follow that thinking then the TSA watch list for people not allowed on flight is unconstitutional?
The department also does not allow former gang member on the police department even with no convictions?
The Terry Hilliard background company the city hires also does not pass person with contact cards in the system for new police hires.
My supervisors are so afraid to be sand bagged on any report for fear of the blanket lawsuit that names everyone they refuse to assist on anything.
Anyone notice alot more carry concealed in the hood? Everyone has the paperwork but the person next to them is usually a bust out drug-dealer. Is it just me or is the legal gunholder acting as a living holster for the bust out?
just observation forgot to do card on this because they always leave so fast.
That's the first thing I said after doing the Elearning training that the brass put together. It clearly said numerous times in many ways that we no longer can stop the gang members for being gang members or in a high crime spot. You bosses wrote the order and it's now law so how can you ask for dispersals fully knowing we can get jammed? I know "you have our backs" well if you do you wouldn't ask us to do this. How does the ACLU feel about it? That's what matters
Don't worry 1232am cuz dean-o will soon tell everyone how he fought and won to get our cash from the first year retro that rahm kept. Yes that's right we will be getting that cash eventually. Just don't let him tell you it was because of his and fops fighting for us. It was not something he and the fop boys did, it was city council that caught the mistake and oversite in the law. Dean is already bragging how this will get him re elected to a 2nd term.
"So what is the feeling here? Does the ISR order pretty much eliminate the Gang/Narcotic Loitering order as a tool to disperse hoodlums on the corners?"
As if it worked in the 1st place? Get Real
"Stop with the lies dean. Do it or you, your kid and everyone else is gone. We have some very very motivated people who will pool people together to make sure you are out.
2/04/2016 12:32:00 AM"
I'll bet months pay Deano get reelected by mandate. Very motivated people? Almost fell of my chair, boy that's a good one.
No More dispersal, now we have this democratic insanity border agents ordered to "stand down" Just like hillary ordered the stand down orders in Benghazi (see great movie 13 hours American heroes) where an American ambassador was killed and many Americans dead due to her laughing incompetence!
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/border-agent-we-might-as-well-abolish-our-immigration-laws-altogether/article/2582401
There has always been conditions to the gang loitering ordinance, just nobody ever took the time to read it.
If diversity is the goal in the CPD, why are there only nominally functional idiots in command positions? Shouldn't those positions be balanced (normed) by competent individuals?
(OT) Looks like sun-times is done, the head of that paper just spent over 44 million investing in the other dying publication the tribune, the dead tree media is leaving! Say goodbye to anti-police propaganda bye Mitchell,steinberg,Brown,Sneed and the rest,maybe you still could be part of this segment streetwise is looking to restart! Your biased reporting is responsible, the constant police attacks, have you noticed advertisers are rapidly declining?
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Great post!
Yes I believe it does.. the white card on gang dispersals states you must verify that the subject is in a gang by conducting a name check. If you have no reasonable suspicion asking him for his id and detaining him to verify he's in a gang is a violation of his rights.
I don't believe that because the city deems a corner a "hot spot" is enough to stop someone that is standing on it.
2/04/2016 01:25:00 AM
Excellent point!
This looks like a violation of civil rights with no question
Off Topic
Rahms email:
Supe: can I call you
Rahm: NOPE worried about teachers Marching! LOL
Supe: a few DEAD
RAHM: police shooting !!!
SUPE: NO 5 dead all stabbed???
RAHM: OH? what color r they?
SUPE: they live by 57 and California.
RAHM: Damn not even 1 gun wound!
SUPE: LMFAO TTYL...
Dumb asses out there still working. Fucked up that we can't stand together.
I never believed in dispersals. Waste of a good event number. Lol!
Stay together Blue. Blue, Blue, Blue. Take care of each other.
To write an ISR one really-really-really has to be out of their mind.
Somewhere in the past few months the ISR writers, all of 3,000 where written so far, are under intense scrutiny.
At the very least you hard chargers, until they work out the nonsensical steps, the confusing context and of course, the DOJ inspection...
DON'T STOP-DON'TWRITE.
But that won't matter to GanSatGun Teamers wanting a 10hr.
And One More Thing...
Your presidents DOJ had initiated a Civil Rights Pattern or Practice investigation and on Feb 1, Your mayor released the names of PO's (past and present) involved what they believe is patterned and practiced misconduct of many sort. Read the email in your mailbox.
Trust nobody, don't stop nobody, don't get involved beyond your report writing.
Anonymous said...
Just had the ISR training at headquarters the other night. Every ISR you do is available and kept on file. Say you do an ISR and your SGT. kicks it back for lack of PC or he/she tells you to make minor adjustments in your narrative to comply with what is needed so your justified in your stop. That original ISR is kept on file and subject to FOIA as well as the revised one. My question was are these ISR's going to be part of the individuals court files, like the case and arrest reports, inventories, lab results etc... I was told not at this time but that there's nothing holding a defense attorney from requesting any and all ISR's via FOIA. So you have your original ISR that may be lacking in PC that was rejected that the defense has access to and can pick apart and use against you. "Which one is correct officer your original narrative as to why you stopped my client or your revised ISR or your case report narrative/arrest report narrative? Are you lying on your paper work officer, isn't that a rule 14 violation officer? Some things can be explained away but this just seems like more ammo to be fired at the officers.
2/04/2016 07:37:00 AM
FOIA? You should be more worried that EVERYTHING is being sent to a private entity, the aclu. You should also be more worried that any isr that gets kicked back by a supervisor is red flagged by the city and singled out for the aclu and will be scrutinized heavily to see if your final changes were inconsistent with the original so they can go after you. Foia is a fishing expedition that has now been pretty much eliminated because the aclu already has access to them with the ones kicked back are already pointed out for them.
The primary goal of the aclu is to prove that their organization is still necessary and relevant. They will do that by trying to exploit any inconsistency as being part of a racially biased system and department. And they will be damned if they let the facts get in the way.
Standing on the corner watching all the girls go by". What's more American than that? Dean Martin.
Leave da Utes alone..
Anonymous said...
Not a cop here but what happens if you just get out of the car and start talking to the a-holes on the corner. They want community policing, well you are just being friendly to them....What's up bro, what's going on tonight....just thought we would hang out with you guys for a while.
Make them nervous enough to disperse.
2/04/2016 09:21:00 AM
*******************************************************************
You risk getting shot in the back by some juvenile banger who, due to recent changes in the law, may not even be charged as an adult for your murder and could be out on the streets once he turns 21. And, while there are certain inherent risks with this job, foolishly increasing those risks to move bangers from one corner to another is not an option. Being killed or injured is a hazard of doing the job we do, it is not a requirement. Despite what certain members of the public think.
When we all took this job, we knew there were risks. But those risks came with rewards (pension as well as others). But now the politicians and the citizens want to lessen those rewards, but increase our risk (both physically, and legally). Good luck with those corners.
Still waiting for CPD to look for a way to strike and resist all this regulation and mayhem. Staying fetal seems like a very good first step. But if you read the tea leaves on whats coming its not going to get any better.
Dispersals will still be conducted, just let the rival sets conduct them. "Disperse motherfucker, pop, pop, pop. pop....permanently."
ACLU gets paid by the dope boys in EVERY city who's police department gets investigated, usually big city deppartments.
The Chicago Shitty Council's various iterations of gang loitering ordinances have been pretty vague and do border on flagrant infringement on Constitutional rights. Hell, the original ordinance from 1992 was challenged all the way to SCOTUS and was found to be unconstitutional. Any officer going overboard enforcing this ordinance over the years really needs to have his head examined. And with the new ISR law and order, let the gangbangers congregate all they like. When they roll bones or jaywalk or litter, arrest them for that.
http://www.gangresearch.net/GangResearch/Policy/law.html
No one on here would want their wife, mother, kids and or friends messed with.
Idiot, that's why you tell them to stay FAR, FAR Away from CHICAGO...
The Federal Government was very clear on accusing an individual of being an active gang member. They have to ADMIT affiliation, so just stopping the fella's on the street corner with the idea that they are active within a gang could constitute Violation of Civil Rights. From there a suit could be filed or the officers taken into custody. I believe the Department is setting the officers up for failure. We realize that if it walks and talks like a duck that it is a duck. Clear parameters have to be set, I believe the officers could be in violation when they assume a thug is a gang member. So in order to make numbers, white shirts with no vested intrest in your well being could be leading to the slaughter. It makes no difference what a department G. O. says, the FBI trumps everything. Re-check how they feel about calling a duck a duck...
This is on point and I have said it for years. ACLU told us a long time ago it is not illegal to stand on the public way. It is not illegal to belong to "social groups" such as gangs.
This is a follow up. The gang units used to have rooms filled with books of set of the various gangs. Where are they? The average officer does not understand that unless an individual was arrested in the last 5 years he cannot be placed into a gang book. The FBI seized all the gang books the Gang Investigation Section made. Don't be so free with the label, when placed on a document by an officer is proof that you are calling a wayward youth a gang member, hence you are violating his rights.... Check the facts ask where are the hundreds of books compiled by Gangs North South and West. Those stop reports you are filling out go much further than one could imagine. Please check the facts....
If they are, by definition, loitering in a gang and narcotic hotspot and you know or can articulate that they are gang bangers, you have reasonable suspicion that the gang loitering ordinance is being broken. If you give the dispersal order and they are within sight and sound, you now have PC for arrest. The first will require an ISR, second, will not.
Anonymous said...
If they are, by definition, loitering in a gang and narcotic hotspot and you know or can articulate that they are gang bangers, you have reasonable suspicion that the gang loitering ordinance is being broken. If you give the dispersal order and they are within sight and sound, you now have PC for arrest. The first will require an ISR, second, will not.
2/06/2016 01:24:00 AM
In response to your ignorant comment... hotspots are unconstituonal. Known gang members? Unless the person tells you they are and even if they do... how do you know? By looking in the clear system? LOL I've seen people in 4 different gangs... dispersal order? Under what authority are you dispersing anyone on public way? Gang loitering? Narcotics loitering? What are yo the 003 district tact team? Sight and sound? Somebody drank the nazi kool-aid. You are like the democratic party. They too can't control criminals so theybjust make more stupid laws. You too want to burden american citizens by intimidation and threat just for standing around? WTF? This is why we can't sign complaints for disorderly conduct anymore. Because cops like you would lock people up just for talking shit or simply knowing their rights. You must be glad that obama extended the patroit act and killed 3 us citizens with drine strikes. You nazi.
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