Tuesday, August 09, 2016

Video Review - The Department

Yesterday, we covered State Law. You may or may not agree, but we think we laid out a very good case that no sustainable criminal charges would be filed against the involved officers. That isn't to say some political attempt might not be made by an incompetent ambitious prosecutor, such as in Baltimore. But the likelihood is less than average.

Department policy though, is a different animal altogether. First is the prohibition on chasing hot cars:
  • General Order 03-03-01

    Section III - Prohibitions

    Subsection C: The continuation of a motor vehicle pursuit is prohibited whenever

    Item 2a: the most serious offense for which the pursued vehicle is wanted is [...] a theft
And if you go to the Glossary, the definition of a Theft is as follows:
  • Theft - Any violation of any subsection of 625 ILCS 5/4, including Possession of a Stolen Motor Vehicle, or 720 ILCS 5/16.
We haven't heard the complete audio tape, so we have no idea if the chase was terminated at any point, but the moment that it was determined the car was stolen, without some sort of extenuating circumstance, termination is a given, including self-termination by the officers. That item has been in effect for many years now.

However, there is a bigger order in play here. The Department's Use of Force is deliberately written as a "preservation of life" policy and has been taught for years as being "more restrictive than state law." The Department is going to hang one or both officers on the following violation:
  • General Order 03-02-02 - Deadly Force

    Section III - Department Prohibitions for Use of Deadly Force

    Use of firearms in the following way is prohibited:

    (E) Firing at or into a moving vehicle when the vehicle is the only force being used against the sworn member or another person.
As we pointed out a few days ago, this policy, as written, would allow the Truck Terrorist in Nice, France free rein to drive up and down a venue like Michigan Avenue, or Navy Pier or the lakefront bike paths running over anything in his path and the Chicago Police Department would not be able to do a procedurally correct thing to stop him.

In reality, would we? We can't tell you what to do, but we (and 99.9% of other coppers) would be out of ammo long before we considered turning our backs on fellow citizens in that situation. Hopefully, the public acclaim would be enough to protect us from the politics, but who knows in Rahm's Chicago.

But why have a policy that is as narrow as this one is if we can cite even one example where it's just not based in reality? The fact is, sometimes cops are going to make tactical mistakes and get caught where they shouldn't be (in the line of travel). That's a training issue. It's already illegal to deliberately place yourself in harm's way to provoke a Deadly Force situation, but we're supposed to let an unfortunate cop pay for a mistake with their body? Or their lives?

That seems counter-productive, but given the political climate at the moment, we don't see a good outcome Administratively for the involved parties.

Tomorrow - wrapping it up.

Labels:

83 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is also the part or the pursuit policy that prevents overtaking, barricade etc. Sorry to say, they are done. What part of "stay fetal" don't these kids understand? This is your livelihood, your freedom for G-d sake. This is not a game.

8/09/2016 12:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Remember that time your supervisor terminated your chase and you called them a pussy and a piece of shit who was never the police? Make sure you go thank them today for possibly keeping you out of a shitshow like this.

Not a supervisor

8/09/2016 12:18:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Sworn members will not unreasonably endanger themselves or another person to conform to the restrictions of this directive."

8/09/2016 12:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yep... The officers are both done, just word of mouth from my sources--- I know both officers for years... One told me personally, he is done and he is just waiting for it--- hat shield, badge, and ID all turned in, pink slip is already filled out--- here kid, enjoy your 6 months of unemployment

8/09/2016 12:41:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think Rahm is sitting on another video. They want to appear to have our backs by saying training etc....Van Dyke is charged with murder and his bad guy had a knife when shot.

The body cam has a 30sec or 2 min buffer(depending on the model) whereas once you click it on, it supposedly starts recording at the earlier mentioned time. (and they say it isnt recording all of the time....how can it go back in time if it isn't already recording? I'm sure all of it is on there somewhere. TRUST NO ONE. Are we a bunch off dummies? The officer that shot the offender turned on his camera shortly after. 30 secs is a long time to go back. The whole thing probably lasted 2 mins.
Where is the video Rham? I agree, dont release the video, its too inflammatory but dont lie to us dept. members about how the cameras really work. Lets find out now.

The body cameras will ruin this city. New videos will pop up weekly. Rham should have focused on making the community obey the law and then their neighborhood could be more like mine.

I also disagree with providing police videos to the public until all investigation and litigation is complete. There will be many more inflammatory videos to come and as brave as we are and as shorthanded as well, the powers at be will not allow us to contain this anarchy and restore the peace.

Do we have a police union? if so,can we get supplimental police union coverage?

8/09/2016 12:47:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

But we deliberately put ourselves in harm's way, it's part of the job!

8/09/2016 12:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...



1. hot car...no chase
2. tact cars involved in chase
3. no termination for traffic violations or sgt. intervention
4. roadblocking
5. shooting at vehicle when it alone is a threat
6. shooting at vehicle after it is not a threat
7. shooting in a direction of other officers
8. shooting an unarmed subject.

These are mistakes proper training and guided experience would solve. Do not look totally at the academy or some ftos. This is learned while working with seasoned officers who can guide them and pass on lessons already learned. Open up training districts and get rid on that foot patrol. A minimum 5 years for tact. 10 for sgt. etc. The knowledge of whatever seasoned officers are left needs to be passed on to the new for preservation.
Please save the department. Come up with a way to keep guys from retiring. Extend the 55 and out so some would stay knowing they will still get the health even if they say leave at 59...etc....evey little bit helps.




8/09/2016 01:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Someone should start a timer, for how long it takes fast Eddie to strip a copper, and one for how long it takes him to fire these coppers... Cause it is just around the corner. I bet you will see the longer his hamburgler face is super inten-hole, the time will be fast tracked. Get in trouble today, get fired next week

8/09/2016 01:05:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To me, it appears these coppers weren't actually chasing the shitbird, they positioned themselves so the shitbird came to them.
As for the other issues, well, I guess you had to be there...

8/09/2016 01:06:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Connected officers,clouted officers may have a different outcome... Its time to make the two tier discipline OUTED with IG and the DOJ.

8/09/2016 01:17:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...



I hope the officers SUE the estate of the offender as soon as they settle!!!

8/09/2016 01:29:00 AM  
Anonymous outside lookin' in said...

VIOLATION E "Firing at or into a moving vehicle when the vehicle is the only force being used against the sworn member or another person."


What if a civilian who is armed (let's say CCW) is in this position. What is he or she guilty of if they take action and shoot into the car?

I would say nothing, it is "Self-defense"?? The car is being used as a lethal weapon.

Am I wrong?




8/09/2016 01:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

After watching the Baltimore Six trials, remember they cannot be criminally convicted and sent to prison for violating department policy.

But that does not mean their lives are not ruined.

8/09/2016 01:37:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

in more important news lets review August 8th 2016 from 0000hrs to 2359hrs. Murder in 012, murder in 011, murder in 006, murder in 011, murder in 008, murder in 011, murder in 007, murder in 006(one for now, another is in grave/critical) and another murder in 011. Thats right folks, in 24 hours we HAD 9 HOMICIDES! Some weekends in the summer we dont have 9 homicides. Thats 9 on a monday! Are you kidding me? Over a dozen others shot. Thats 2 killed in 006, 4 killed in 011, one in 007, one in 012 and one in 008. also, a 10 year old boy who was playing out in front of his house was shot in the back and in critical condition in 011 at springfield and polk. on that shooting I give my sincere prayers for the kid to pull through. But hey, this police shooting will still dominate the news.

8/09/2016 02:14:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Great. Line every policeman up along a parade route at Bud Biliken. Who thinks of this ? Put a yellow vest on them too.

8/09/2016 05:47:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is the lastest ruling on police shooting at cars. The courts have ruled in favor of the police.


http://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/cleveland-officer-michael-brelo-found-not-guilty-car-hood-shooting-n363696


Cleveland Officer Acquitted in Deaths of Two Unarmed Passengers 3:06

A Cleveland police officer has been found not guilty of voluntary manslaughter in the killing of two unarmed passengers whose car hood he mounted, sending a barrage of bullets into their windshield.

Michael Brelo, 31, who is white, was charged with killing Timothy Russell and Malissa Williams ā€” both of whom were black ā€” after a car chase in November 2012. Brelo rubbed his face and nodded his head as the judge read the verdict, and then wept.

8/09/2016 06:23:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is possible to do everything correct according to department regs and the law, and still be guilty of a bad decision that will cost you your job.

8/09/2016 06:37:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I bet the Baltimore aquittles has Cook County biting their nails

8/09/2016 06:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If only Eddie would give us all the answers to a promotional exam, then none of these guys would be in a position to get fired. They would all be supervisors. What do you say Ed. White shirts for everyone? Nice cushy spots, chevrons, bars, and gold stars everywhere. "I want a white shirt!" request for supervisors answered with out delay from now on.......

8/09/2016 06:57:00 AM  
Blogger Johnny said...

So, if somebody is trying to kill you with a car, department policy is that you don't shoot at them. Let them kill you with the car I guess. And don't go in harm's way? Like never get out
of the car? Or I suppose always show up late after the community is out of ammo? And so on.;^)

Even if some of you coppers don't get it, as a bystander to the process I get it. I suggest a new simpler directive: In any violent confrontation the cop is to blame.

8/09/2016 07:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Despite what happened, officers are still chasing cars and they are still saying over the radio "we are just following him at 20 MPH". Yeah. Right. Dummies!!! Keep telling yourself how smart you are, how much of the real police you are.

8/09/2016 07:09:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

nonymous said...
There is also the part or the pursuit policy that prevents overtaking, barricade etc. Sorry to say, they are done. What part of "stay fetal" don't these kids understand? This is your livelihood, your freedom for G-d sake. This is not a game.

8/09/2016 12:16:00 AM

I hope that you are wrong on this. I am not so sure that anyone will be fired over this incident, although I am sure the super is chomping at the bit to show how tough he is and make an example of someone. I have seen people suspended for one year. The city goes for dismissal but settles. Lets hope.

8/09/2016 07:15:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is going to happen to the sergeant? As soon as the officer went over the air saying a hot car was speeding away then the sgt. should have terminated this whole nonsense. Our vehicle pursuit policy is super restrictive.

8/09/2016 07:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What if a civilian who is armed (let's say CCW) is in this position. What is he or she guilty of if they take action and shoot into the car?

I would say nothing, it is "Self-defense"?? The car is being used as a lethal weapon.

Am I wrong?
=================
IMO, it is not that it is illegal so much as that it is just a horrible idea to be shooting at something that is moving and that even if you hit it and not the nun crossing the street down the block, you won't stop it. Just get the heck out of the way.

My guess is if you shoot a guy down the street because you are shooting at something else you might well find yourself in civil court.

This time it worked out OK and no one just wandering by got killed. It could easily have gone very badly.

NAC

8/09/2016 07:21:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am sorry to be so harsh. But those two officers do not deserve to be on the job. Who the fuck taught them to unholster their gun while in a squad car, while their squad car is moving and just as his car door is about to open? Then to shoot at a car while his partner is in danger ok fine I will say he has the right to shoot. But then as the car is fleeing the car is no longer a threat then they keep shooting at the car. While other officers are down range. This is a bad shooting and they deserve to be fired. Perhaps they will serve as sacrificial lambs and every officer, from recruit to an officer counting his days till retirement will finally and once and for all get it- answer your jobs and back each other up and adhere to the department's policies strictly.

8/09/2016 07:23:00 AM  
Blogger The Keesing Bandit said...

The bad decisions being made by our department are directly related to the facts that:

Most of them are heavily clouted and were able to tap dance away from any challenging police assignment.

They did not have the ability to pass a promotional test on their own and had to rely upon cheating or the phony merit system.

8/09/2016 07:27:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Holy shit, 7 dead and 11 more wounded ON A MONDAY!! What the hell

8/09/2016 07:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The body cameras will ruin this city. New videos will pop up weekly."

- - - - - -

You could not possibly be more wrong. Cameras are all over out there anyway, and many times in the hands of .... let's just say "possibly unscrupulous neighborhood activists" who are eager to release edited video to portray the police in the worst way possible.

There are only two choices: You can fight the cameras and continue to make yourself and the CPD look like dinosaurs with something to hide. Or you can embrace the cameras because when the PO does what is correct and professional, the camera will provide an indisputable record regardless of what some mutt edits to the contrary.

Truth is, despite sometimes being messy along the way, ultimately, cameras will be the way out of this mess.

8/09/2016 08:04:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You can say all you want but the bottom line is they screwed up and now will have to pay the price.

8/09/2016 08:05:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do we have a police union? if so,can we get supplimental police union coverage?

8/09/2016 12:47:00 AM

No, we don't have a police union, it's a detective's union. The only supplemental coverage available is the $50 a month stipend for being on an FOP committee.

8/09/2016 08:13:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

outside lookin' in said...
VIOLATION E "Firing at or into a moving vehicle when the vehicle is the only force being used against the sworn member or another person."

What if a civilian who is armed (let's say CCW) is in this position. What is he or she guilty of if they take action and shoot into the car?

I would say nothing, it is "Self-defense"?? The car is being used as a lethal weapon.

Am I wrong?

8/09/2016 01:34:00 AM

That's for the Police only. Who,by the way,have less rights as everyone else.

8/09/2016 08:22:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was glad to see Dean call out Oppenheimer and Fairley for their outrageous comments and statements.
Of course the media eats their reckless, and heavily biased, statements up and repeats them over and over so they can fan the flames and continue with their anti police agenda.

8/09/2016 08:29:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not a peep at roll calls. Good thing we have SCC for Intel updates.

8/09/2016 08:49:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous outside lookin' in said...
VIOLATION E "Firing at or into a moving vehicle when the vehicle is the only force being used against the sworn member or another person."


What if a civilian who is armed (let's say CCW) is in this position. What is he or she guilty of if they take action and shoot into the car?

I would say nothing, it is "Self-defense"?? The car is being used as a lethal weapon.

Am I wrong?

----------------------

You're comparing state law to department policy.

8/09/2016 08:50:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This wasnt criminal. In no way was it criminal. They fucked up but it was NOT criminal.

8/09/2016 08:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Relax kid...stay in the car...and dont touch the computer.......cpd needs more mentors

8/09/2016 08:55:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Has anyone realized that these shootings are occurring in every district that the Commander or Deputy Chief are all triple merit picks. 006, 005, 011, 015, 007. I bet not one could take a merit exam on general orders and procedures. They may pass if they bring the exam-scam girls.

8/09/2016 09:06:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

IV. AFFIRMATION OF PROTECTION OF LIFE POLICY
Sworn members will not unreasonably endanger themselves or another person to conform to the restrictions of this directive.

8/09/2016 09:07:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Save the dept by letting guys stay till 59 to retire. Just retired at 55 best thing I ever did. Everyone should get out asap. News flash dude nothing is gonna save this dept or this city now. The dept is run by boneheads. You can have all the training in the world if you are an idiot and don't listen like many coppers it's not gonna matter.

8/09/2016 09:31:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know BLM and the Chicago Machine could careless, but None of these guys could get a fair trial AFTER the video gets dumped into the public arena.

8/09/2016 09:37:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why is everyone so shocked and amazed that these officers are getting hung out to dry? Did they violate dept policy yes or no? Car chases are strictly prohibited. Shooting at a fleeing vehicle strictly prohibited especially when its in the direction of a fellow officer! I know the offender is a supreme jag-off but.....these officers provided the rope which will be used to hang them. No jail time but also no job.

8/09/2016 09:38:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

really? it's codified that you absolutely cannot chase a stolen car? So the Sgt is obligated to call off the chase 100% of the time? Am I undrstanding this correctly?

8/09/2016 10:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Regardless if GO's were violated, ignored or misunderstood, it's just politics and big mouths stirring the pot.
Jugghead Special Ed doesn't know what part of the order, if any was violated. He's not saying. Because he doesn't know. Special Ed and Rahm were very quick to react as they did. And Farley, the disgusted Independant reviewer, one day she will be confronted by these thugs, it's only a matter of time that she will actualize reality.
Besides Special Ed grappling with the acumen of General Orders (stuff real promotees actually studied), one has to wonder if his lazy ass had ever encountered this type of situation. He says he had, but nobody knows.
Absolutely the worst Superintendent so far. Who stands with this idiot ?
It's time to quick judge the spineless Department and take some time off from doing nothing more than answering calls, driving carlefully and within the safe posted limit. Forget the blue light.
Yeah, Buds Billikins should be a day to show up in numbers...at the Medical Section.
Reference E03-01-02 [formerly G98-02-02a] Sworn Medical Roll-Non IOD Status

8/09/2016 10:18:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous outside lookin' in said...
VIOLATION E "Firing at or into a moving vehicle when the vehicle is the only force being used against the sworn member or another person."


What if a civilian who is armed (let's say CCW) is in this position. What is he or she guilty of if they take action and shoot into the car?

I would say nothing, it is "Self-defense"?? The car is being used as a lethal weapon.

Am I wrong?





8/09/2016 01:34:00 AM
Civilians don't have General.Orders that they have to abide to !

8/09/2016 10:22:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Anonymous Anonymous said...
Great. Line every policeman up along a parade route at Bud Biliken. Who thinks of this ? Put a yellow vest on them too.


8/09/2016 05:47:00 AM

Yep. Put those ridiculous reflective vests on all of them..... and maybe blinking crown caps too!
The clueless fucks at HQ are real brainchilds.

8/09/2016 11:02:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did you see just the covers of Chicago propaganda papers Suntimes and tribune? Pathetic anti-police disgusting they are doing there absolute best to destroy this very city when Trump constantly says media is "dishonest" he is correct! They are doing there best after constantly lighting the flame to have it explode on police in a violent mayhem inducing way! Protect Blue we matter!

8/09/2016 12:07:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

CPD;
You must hire a public relations person to get the truth about the law to the public. The union allows the hacks to fuck over you, and you get on the blog to tell the truth. If Clinton wins, Civil Rights Violations will be the standard for you. As a citizen, I have seen enough phony fucking cap and gown photo's !

Citizen railroaded by judge G.Howard.

8/09/2016 12:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We used to hang horse thieves. And you guys can't even chase a car thief? Wow that's pathetic.

I used to work for a Sheriff down here in Texas. Nice guy that retired from a big city agency after 40 years. Heard stories about him from former partners and this guy was the real deal. Shot and killed many thugs back in the 70s and 80s. Two in one night chasing armed robbers during a vehicle pursuit. Anyway he moved to a podunk county on the other side of the state and got elected as Sheriff. It was my first job out of the academy. He told me one day, yes we have a policy that you can't shoot at moving vehicles. But don't worry about it. When you are on the witness stand you just tell them "I wasn't shooting at the stolen vehicle, I was shooting at the thug driving the stolen vehicle". Man I miss that guy.

8/09/2016 12:46:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

[...]
Please save the department. Come up with a way to keep guys from retiring. Extend the 55 and out so some would stay knowing they will still get the health even if they say leave at 59...etc....evey little bit helps.


8/09/2016 01:03:00 AM

Sorry pal, most of us don't want to stay.

I will get the 55 & out with medical but don't need it as I'm covered by my wife.
For those who don't have that luxury, if the age for the medical were raised, they would stay and find a spot or get themselves to a good district.

Stay fetal!

8/09/2016 02:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OT Just was at the northside retiree luncheon. Sheriff Clark was the guest speaker. Outstanding. He is the only real platform that police in this country have, the rest of the politicians and urban police executives are too busy pandering to the dysfunctional ghetto mentality "blame the police" and if the police will change and everything will be alright. It won't. It is the ghetto mentality that needs to change but no one in elected office will say that. If someone recorded his remarks, they should be posted for all to see.

8/09/2016 02:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.policeone.com/chiefs-sheriffs/articles/208024006-Chief-Ohio-cop-under-vicious-attack-killed-knife-wielding-man/


Chief: Ohio cop under 'vicious' attack killed knife-wielding man
The robbery suspect charged the officer with a knife as the policeman was getting out of his cruiser

Yesterday at 12:03 PM



Isaac says the encounter was captured on video. He says the city can't yet release the video because it was subpoenaed by the prosecutor's office for its review of the officer's actions.

Seems prudent......

8/09/2016 02:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This incident guaranteed a consent decree from the Feds for sure. Wait until that fun begins. You ain't seen nuttin yet.

8/09/2016 02:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The only way to correct the disgusting behavior in the Black Community is for us to pull out until they beg for a return to order. Civility Grace and Dignity of a proud culture has descended to the point where violent criminal behavior is accepted as the norm and no matter what the response by Law Enforcement the systemic collective ignorance of the community always rally's behind those who caused the mayhem. The call for action on Bud Billiken is long overdue, let the community shut itself down and the Labor Day Movement is a start as well. The sight of media politicians and activists running from the monster they created this Sat could shock the city and nation into the realization that we are the only hope against anarchy. The rumors of suspensions and firings are all propoganda by Sgts and Lts worried about losing their spot. Stand Up for yourself!

8/09/2016 03:31:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fly on the Wall: IPRA looks at the General Orders and then takes into account the Officers action. SCC both yesterday and today spelled out what the law states and what is department policy. The question in this incident is going to be the following: Did the Officers commit a violation of the State's Criminal Code?
Did the Officers violate CPD Policy?
State Law states that the Department can hold it's employee's to a sticker standard then the law allows. In this case the Department states that if the only force used by a offender is a moving vehicle then by Policy the Officers CAN NOT SHOOT AT THE VEHICLE. However, the policy states the following: Sworn members will not unreasonably endangers themselves or another person to conform with the restrictions of this policy. This is a oxymoron of the order. The question is going to be was the Offenders action endanger the officers or some other persons. That is where the Investigation is going to go down to. I am not going to go into whether or not the Officers actions were justified. That is not for me to say but this is going to be the focus of the Investigation. There are several other questions that come into play when looking into the totality if the incident. There is no questions as to whether or not the decease was acting VERY RICKLESSLY BY DRIVING AT THE HIGH RATE OF SPEED, BY STEALING A MOTOR VEHICLE THAT WAS NOT HIS TO TAKE, BY FAILING TO STOP WHEN THE RESPONDING OFFICERS ATTEMPTED TO PULL HIM OVER AND HIM PURPOSELY CRASHING HIS VEHICLE INTO A MARKED POLICE VEHICLE ATTEMPTING TO INJURY THE OFFICERS. As SCC has po8inted out the last two days was the shooting justifiable? Here is my problem with the incident: The Chief Administrator has publically stated that this video was VERY DISTURBING. The release of the video before the investigation is concluded? What I mean is by this statement is: Have the Investigators finished interviewing any and all witnesses. The problem with releasing the video this soon can 'witness be lawyered up". I do not have a problem with the release of the video but releasing the video this soon can cause additional problems for the Officers.

8/09/2016 03:42:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...


1. hot car...no chase
2. tact cars involved in chase
3. no termination for traffic violations or sgt. intervention
4. roadblocking
5. shooting at vehicle when it alone is a threat
6. shooting at vehicle after it is not a threat
7. shooting in a direction of other officers
8. shooting an unarmed subject.

These are mistakes proper training and guided experience would solve. Do not look totally at the academy or some ftos. This is learned while working with seasoned officers who can guide them and pass on lessons already learned. Open up training districts and get rid on that foot patrol. A minimum 5 years for tact. 10 for sgt. etc. The knowledge of whatever seasoned officers are left needs to be passed on to the new for preservation.
Please save the department. Come up with a way to keep guys from retiring. Extend the 55 and out so some would stay knowing they will still get the health even if they say leave at 59...etc....evey little bit helps.


8/09/2016 01:03:00 AM

Have you considered the trend for training recruits after they graduate from the academy in the last 4 years? Under mccarthy, recruits were assigned to a box or school route with orders to do nothing. They eventually had 3 cycles with a FTO. At times they had 3 recruits with one FTO. How can one FTO train 3 recruits? After 3 months with FTO;s they returned to the box and told to do nothing. So, for one year minus 3 months they did nothing. After they are off probation they are considered veterans and work alone or with another new officer. No experience, no senior officers to guide them, horrible lack of effective supervision. They are pushed to get ISR numbers and arrests. The perfect storm. That is what happened with the chase and shooting. Motivated with the right attitude but lacked experience and guidance. In the past there were senior or veteran officers to help and guide but not now. Those officers on the camera were new and inexperienced. Stripped quickly and sent to call back, the purgatory of the department. This is so sad.

8/09/2016 04:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OT:
http://www.americanpatriotdaily.com/latest/university-of-chicago-accidentally-proves-that-gun-control-laws-dont-work/#disqus_thread

8/09/2016 04:16:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fly on the Wall Again: please forgive me I thought I was running out of room and pushed the publish button but I wanted to ask more questions. Is the Department and/or IPRA going to investigate the camera itself. What I am saying is this: Why was the camera in which the shooting Officer was wearing not recording the shooting itself? Did the Officer not activate the camera or was the camera activated and accidently shout off when the officer was either running after the offender or when he was climbing over the locked fence gate? Look at the video, it is apparent that the gate is locked. You see a Officer climbing over the fence and he appears to have the trunk part of the his body lying up on the top of the fence. Was this the reason why the camera was not recording at the time? Is IPRA or the IAD going to simulate the Officers action of climbing over the locked gate? If this is not feasible is the Investigative Unit going to take that particular camera and rub it up against the fence and see if that causes the button to disengage? Could it be possibly that the camera was accidently shut off by the Officer body weight and having the camera in-between him and the gate fence? I am bring this up because this could be one of the charges that the Department uses if the Department states the Officer violated the camera policy. The other question is, are all of the video's being shown? I don't believe all the video are being shown. I have stated in several posts that Farley is taken her cue from the Mayor. is that the reason why she makes a statement the video is disturbing? Is the Chief Administrator of IPRA suppose to be neutral? by her commets on this incident and other incidents, writing op-ed letters to the newspapers she certainly appears to be basis against the Police. The next question is did the Superintendent strip the Officers on his own or was her told by the mayor. I can understand him taking the Officers off the street, but he not only takes the Officers off the street he strips them in 24/36 hrs later. What I am asking, why so fast? A Detective completes his investigation and then call the States Attorney's Felony Review A Detective just doesn't call the Felony Review just after he/she arrives and gets a primary report from the reporting beat officers. The superintendent was in the Detective Division. He knows or should know the steps necessary to conduct investigations thoroughly.

8/09/2016 04:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

9 dead 13 wounded on monday, can this be true

8/09/2016 04:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SCC EXCELLENT job laying out and explaning the legal and department policy aspects

8/09/2016 04:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Very sound and thoughtful analysis Deuce, The changes are a coming and we have to adapt and become like police in the UK or in Copenhagan. There will be no more Englewood or Fillmo Rangers. The days of Joe Berry, Two Pistol Pete, Sgt. Magaha, and Northside are all over. It's a new day indeed............

8/09/2016 04:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For every year ya do after 55 u lose two on the end. A seasoned copper that's KMA, works the additional time to say 59, still gives up damn near a decade of his/her life. Practically that idea may work, but who would carve out almost a decade of their life to stay on this sinking ship being ran at the top by a ship of fools.
Good Luck & safety to ALL Coppers

8/09/2016 04:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Any videos of rahm cutting off EJ's balls?

8/09/2016 06:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You should have seen the look on Dean Angelo's face when his sons best friend Mike Shields introduced Sheriff Clarke at the retirees luncheon today. What a joke? Mikey and Deano sound more like a cartoon. Was big brother Dan there? The FOP is going in the same direction as the Democratic party. Very sad, but fun to watch!

8/09/2016 06:23:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The body cams are for the attorneys to make a fortune off off...oh and the connected people they work for......

8/09/2016 07:06:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Trump supports police again:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-once-iā€™m-president-police-officers-will-no-longer-be-shot-on-the-job/ar-BBvehsm

8/09/2016 07:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have seen ignorance speak tonite...... On Chicago Tonight (WTTW)

Her name is U.S. Rep. Robin Kelly....comments about the shooting....turned the TV off.....can't watch ignorance....especially extreme ignorance......back to watch reruns....I'd vote for Earnest T Bass or Otis any day.......

Anyone can get into politics....


Prince Valium

8/09/2016 07:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
I think Rahm is sitting on another video. They want to appear to have our backs by saying training etc....Van Dyke is charged with murder and his bad guy had a knife when shot.

The body cam has a 30sec or 2 min buffer(depending on the model) whereas once you click it on, it supposedly starts recording at the earlier mentioned time. (and they say it isnt recording all of the time....how can it go back in time if it isn't already recording? I'm sure all of it is on there somewhere. TRUST NO ONE. Are we a bunch off dummies? The officer that shot the offender turned on his camera shortly after. 30 secs is a long time to go back. The whole thing probably lasted 2 mins.
Where is the video Rham? I agree, dont release the video, its too inflammatory but dont lie to us dept. members about how the cameras really work. Lets find out now.

The body cameras will ruin this city. New videos will pop up weekly. Rham should have focused on making the community obey the law and then their neighborhood could be more like mine.

I also disagree with providing police videos to the public until all investigation and litigation is complete. There will be many more inflammatory videos to come and as brave as we are and as shorthanded as well, the powers at be will not allow us to contain this anarchy and restore the peace.

Do we have a police union? if so,can we get supplimental police union coverage?


8/09/2016 12:47:00 AM

Maybe there is truth to the rumor that rahm is holding back until after the election when suddenly the tech wizards will finally be able to recover the "lost" footage from that bodycam. Hillary does not want Chicago to riot with the election so near. Rahm keeps a lid on the south and west siders and is then rewarded with a caninet position. His detail guys are quietly looking for spots to begin moving into. No mass exodus mind you, just slowly and quietly!!

8/09/2016 07:49:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

City is refusing to ID coppers in the thug shooting, released the body cams all over guess gee no one will figure that out idiots:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-chicago-police-shooting-paul-oneal-cop-names-met-20160809-story.html

Could not hold the body cam footage they have 60 days per the city plus another 30 total of 90 days but they rushed it!

8/09/2016 07:57:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
really? it's codified that you absolutely cannot chase a stolen car? So the Sgt is obligated to call off the chase 100% of the time? Am I undrstanding this correctly?
8/09/2016 10:08:00

YES!!!!!!! Wake the fuck up!!!!! Sgt's do it in our district all the time. As well they should

8/09/2016 08:22:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What did felony review say?

8/09/2016 08:35:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Yep... The officers are both done, just word of mouth from my sources--- I know both officers for years... One told me personally, he is done and he is just waiting for it--- hat shield, badge, and ID all turned in, pink slip is already filled out--- here kid, enjoy your 6 months of unemployment "

Good deal. Walk out and walk alive.

If you don't know, this is Detroit. Live...

8/09/2016 10:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dont do shit then you dont have to worry about shit.

8/09/2016 10:48:00 PM  
Blogger Donald Dodson said...

Will the policy be revised if aldermen and/or alderwomen are targetted by a driver trying to run them over in front of helpless police? Will the policy be revised if a the chief of police is targetted by a driver in front of helpless police? Will the policy be revised if the mayor is targetted by a driver in front of helpless police? If police start getting run over due to being helpless will the FOP police union push for a state law to be made that blocks police departments from stripping officers of the right to self defense.

8/09/2016 10:49:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The real issue has been demonstrated with this situation and that is how do you get a fair trial? How can you pick an impartial jury if this footage is released within hours of an event such as this? It would seem to be a violation of due procees and equal protection under the law. I mean why are these camera videos released BEFORE an investigation is completed? I think the quest to save the political class at the expense of justice is really unacceptable and typical. And we should expect more from the worlds best justice system should we not?

8/09/2016 11:20:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Previous and partial post:

"...Please save the department. Come up with a way to keep guys from retiring. Extend the 55 and out so some would stay knowing they will still get the health even if they say leave at 59...etc....evey little bit helps."


Hmmm. So what then...extend the 55 or stay fetal?...leave at 59 or stay fetal??...keep guys from retiring and stay fetal???
You can't have it all!

************************************************

SCC: Kudos once again for your efforts and patience introducing this topic. Great job.

Retired, 30+

8/09/2016 11:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All or most of us can agree major mistakes were made when we watch the videos. However, most importantly, we all have to realize it's 200% obvious these guys had no guidance and sadly no sgt took control of the scene n helped them. It's beyond disturbing. All the training in the world won't prepare you 100% for what happens when you're in those situations. But, having sharp veteran officers around to guide young cops, in my opinion, has been why I'm still alive. It's abundantly clear to me that most veteran cops have left those districts and units because shit like CR's and lawsuits drain us. I can attest to that. It bothers me that righteous cops n supervisors can blame training and other p/o's and bla bla bla for isolated and yes, very unfortunate incidents. I question how many of these geniuses have ever been in rough spots themselves. We need to support each other. Look in your roll call. Identify who may need a little advice. Encourage them to be smarter. Tell them your experiences. They need you. In this day and age all we have is each other.

8/10/2016 12:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Again, why does our Department Policy conflict with State Law ?

8/10/2016 03:27:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Its just too dangerous even if a Sgt doesn't call it off. More coppers get killed in traffic accidents speeding than by being shot.

8/10/2016 03:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Any videos of rahm cutting off EJ's balls?

8/09/2016 06:03:00 PM

Rahm didn't have to. Special Ed did it himself.

8/10/2016 07:49:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Again, why does our Department Policy conflict with State Law ?

8/10/2016 03:27:00 AM

So the mayor can manipulate the dept.

8/10/2016 07:52:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
All or most of us can agree major mistakes were made when we watch the videos. However, most importantly, we all have to realize it's 200% obvious these guys had no guidance and sadly no sgt took control of the scene n helped them. It's beyond disturbing. All the training in the world won't prepare you 100% for what happens when you're in those situations. But, having sharp veteran officers around to guide young cops, in my opinion, has been why I'm still alive. It's abundantly clear to me that most veteran cops have left those districts and units because shit like CR's and lawsuits drain us. I can attest to that. It bothers me that righteous cops n supervisors can blame training and other p/o's and bla bla bla for isolated and yes, very unfortunate incidents. I question how many of these geniuses have ever been in rough spots themselves. We need to support each other. Look in your roll call. Identify who may need a little advice. Encourage them to be smarter. Tell them your experiences. They need you. In this day and age all we have is each other.

8/10/2016 12:03:00 AM

Unfortunately, many of them already know everything. Just ask them,they'll be more than happy to tell you.

8/10/2016 07:54:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
really? it's codified that you absolutely cannot chase a stolen car? So the Sgt is obligated to call off the chase 100% of the time? Am I undrstanding this correctly?
8/09/2016 10:08:00

No, YOU are PROHIBITED from chasing a car,just for being stolen. YOU and PROHIBITED should be the key words.

8/11/2016 12:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

They cut his balls off and put balls on lieutenant star
wwwwd
whatwouldweeeziedo
jajaja

8/11/2016 01:34:00 PM  

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