Did the Pensions Get Hosed?
This guy thinks so, and he makes a good argument to support his contention:
- In picking which [deception] to write about in the City of Chicago’s PR offensive last week about the its finances, I’m suffering from the “paradox of choice.” That’s what occurs when you’re overloaded with too many choices, making it difficult to decide.
I’ll go with this one for now — the numbers for Chicago’s police and firefighter pensions. Had it been honest, the city would have prefaced its pension numbers by saying, “Let’s assume we didn’t kick the can and that an old law is in effect.”
The pension numbers the city used are built on the assumption that it will make far faster, higher pension contributions than in fact it will make under a new law. Its numbers, in other words, ignore a huge can-kick the General Assembly recently passed. The numbers the city peddled therefore are worthless.
[...]
The problem is that the actuarial reports recently completed, on which the city bases its published numbers, assume the old law is still in place! They clearly state that. You can see for yourself in the report for the police report linked here. (You have to look at the “GASB 67 and 68 reports,” in which the all-important Net Pension Liability is calculated, which are the numbers the city used in its financial report widely reported last week. You may also recall that these are reports I had to get through a Freedom of Information Act request. The police pension finally posted theirs last week. The firefighter pension still has not.)
If we understand this, the city is using the old numbers to calculate the new liability. We'll confess to being less than mathematically inclined in this matter. Is this guy on the level? We know the can got kicked down the road, but did we get royally screwed in the process?
Labels: pension
posted by SCC at 12:02 AM
29 Comments:
Yes, the police got screwed pension-wise. The City does not have the money and politically have more important things to spend what money it does have on. Coppers are just going to have to bite the bullet.
YES.
Next question?
Do not worry!
Your Pension is just as safe as your Social Security.
You can trust the Democrat Party and Hillary Clinton on that!
So...
One shoe finally drops?
Is this what Rahm Emanuel paid Dean "MY Kid Comes First,"
(But eff YOUR kids tho') to not make any noise about?
Is this what all the "Rahm saves Cops Pension; Guarantees
1.5x Federal Poverty Level for Cop Retirees..." ballyhoo
that the pantyless cheerleaders of local media were turning
cartwheels about a couple of months ago?
For the blissfully ignorant:
1.5x FPL = $17,820
So...
A Copper with a $50K "Lavish and Luxurious" pension
can look forward to a $32,180 haircut thanks to Rahm
covering for Daley until the statute of limitations
expires.
If Rahm is involved, you can rest assured that we got screwed.
If you have to ask if your pension got hosed, then the answer is yes. This is Chicago - and in a way, I feel bad that you honestly think you'll get what you're contractually entitled to. They will find a way to screw you.
Where is rahm anyway?
Anonymous said...
Yes, the police got screwed pension-wise. The City does not have the money and politically have more important things to spend what money it does have on. Coppers are just going to have to bite the bullet.
8/09/2016 12:52:00 AM
The city has the money. It's just that the mayor wants to spend it on his buddies.
While the teachers refuse to pay anything to their nice pensions coppers who have dutifully contributed every paycheck are getting screwed! The city was required to put in the full 550 million he skyrocketed property taxes already, he has not held up the city end to deposit it! But yet he is spending hundreds of millions on his pathetic legacy projects the friends and family line items that obviously benefit rahm and his elected crew! The big thing many wonder is the pension board gave away over 60 million to daleys nephew dv urban reality davis/vaneko who gave away "our money" the money is gone and we recovered how much kenny hauser? Hoping some federal agency looks into this soon! How much more of our money has been sneakily given away?
The pension funds invest mostly in the stock market. The stock market has doubled
since about 2008. When (and if) the City pays in the money it has shorted the pension fund over the years, does it pay back what the Fund would have had that money been invested in the market over those years? Or just the amount it originally owed? Any provision for interest or penalty for the missed payments, as there would be if you missed a car payment or credit card minimum payment?
I paid in $65,000 over the years, the City supposedly matched that, for a total of $130,000. I have so far collected about $750,000. Multiply me by 10,000 other retirees. Unless the Pension Fund has some fantastic investment advisors, you guys waiting to retire are fucked.
Ran across this article the other day and thought I'd share:
http://www.the-american-interest.com/2016/08/04/actuarial-establishment-tries-to-suppress-explosive-paper-on-public-pensions/
Pretty much proves that those in power KNOW that the pensions are toast and are doing their best to hide that fact from the people who will be affected by it. Please share this info with as many as possible.
In light of this, and in view of the ridiculous anti law and order behavior from certain communities (with the full backing of our moronic elected officials)remember that the promises likely won't be kept, so don't put your neck on the line for a system that will likely screw you over royally.
That sounds like Rahmenomics at work.
Rahm couldn't care less about the health, or lack thereof, of our pension funds.
He despises us and feels we don't deserve our pension.
The only thing that he's concerned with is that his ill gotten $14 Million nest egg stays secure for his very, very comfortable retirement.
The actuaries were correct 30 years ago and they've always stated the fact that the pension would not be funded properly with the City's failure to keep up their obligation and more.
Rahm's scheming financial insiders just did a better job hiding this than Daley, but no matter how it's presented, the City is screwing our pension and the taxpayers. You think Rahms hedge fund guys are losing money?
The entire city got hosed...... Between crooked richie and lying rahm there is nothing left.
"Emanuel’s central message last week was mission accomplished. A solution is now in place for each Chicago pension.
No. It’s just another part of the cover-up. The pensions aren’t fixed and the new taxes will go into a bottomless pit."
It amazes me how far Rahm, et all, will go NOT to do the right thing. If all that time and effort REALLY went into fiscal responsibility ...
ABCD (Ret)
From what I know about this, a thug stole a car, then attempted to or actually did ram some cops, then the thug attempted to flee in the stolen car- putting the lives of many more people at risk- so the cops shot him.
I don't see a problem here, regardless of where the bullets hit him. He could have run my kids over, or my elderly mother, or me.
So screw him.
Why are we rushing to punish the cops for this? We're acting like the cops strangled a bald eagle to death, instead of killing a dangerous criminal who attacked them and put the rest of us in danger.
Yes, the police got screwed pension-wise. The City does not have the money and politically have more important things to spend what money it does have on. Coppers are just going to have to bite the bullet.
U must either work for the city or the CHICAGO UNION CLUB. The city has $2 billion in TIFF funds sitting around. And CC ORR will send the city another $426 million this year.So if he would had taken 1/4 th of it the city would have no need for a $550 million tax increase. Maybe if Fran Spielman or Carol morean would stop kissing Rahms ass they might actually write an investigative piece on this...not in this liberal city.
Rahm finds another 42 million dollars but again misused money not paying due bills like fully funding police pensions first:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-chicago-playground-met-20160809-story.html
All this money being thrown around rahms dismantles the future taxpayers with so much wasted debt! Mayor pay the bills due first just like lying Hillary same song same dance this is criminal!
No problem. Sell off vast amounts of real estate owned by the city.
there is a lot of blame to go around in this pension crisis but the FOP partly to the blame. The FOP for years just stood by as the City short change our pension and they went along with it. For 30 pieces of silver, the FOP let the city not pay it's fair share. This is why I don't like unions. Sure we got benefits but the most important benefit we got screwed. They only look out for their members when it serves their purpose. The current bill that the Governor veto and the Legislator overruled stick's it to all of us. The current President of the FOP campaigned for this bill. It is a dam shame that WE THE MEMBESHIP OF THE FOP ALLOWED THIS TO HAPPEN. The old expression, is you get what you asked for and we elected Angelo.
The other issue is that the assumed rate of return is way to high. But the lower the assumed rate of return, the more the sponsoring governmental unit has to pay in. I think the police pension is at 8%. It should be no higher than 6.5%.
Not a PO
Disability Dean supported the override of Rauner's veto of SB777. Instead of the pension being funded at a 90% level in 2040, the pension will now be 90% funded in 2055, at an extra cost of 27 billion dollars to the taxpayers. Dean just helped to kill the pension for all of us.
Anonymous said...
there is a lot of blame to go around in this pension crisis but the FOP partly to the blame. The FOP for years just stood by as the City short change our pension and they went along with it. For 30 pieces of silver, the FOP let the city not pay it's fair share. This is why I don't like unions. Sure we got benefits but the most important benefit we got screwed. They only look out for their members when it serves their purpose. The current bill that the Governor veto and the Legislator overruled stick's it to all of us. The current President of the FOP campaigned for this bill. It is a dam shame that WE THE MEMBESHIP OF THE FOP ALLOWED THIS TO HAPPEN. The old expression, is you get what you asked for and we elected Angelo.
8/09/2016 04:40:00 PM
1. the only money that the pension plan was shorted was about 25 million in exchange for 29 and a day from 32 and a day. we never vote to give away money to the city Donahue did that. our contribution and the city's matching money is not enough plus a lot of bad investments from the old mayor Daley with the market fall of 2008 led to the shortfall. I went to one pension board meeting about 5 years ago and they spent the whole day in executive session. fop had a guy there and he said that's common but they at least had to take the votes in the open. he said hippa laws were some of the reason and fear of litigation might also be a part of the reason. he said our money with the city's matching money was not enough even with a good rate of return to support the growing number of retirees.
2. all of these court dates on your health care fop had someone there and actually had a bus for the important ones. not one elected pension board trustee attended these dates. Lt. James P. Maloney. Sgt. Brian E. Wright, P.O. Michael K. Lappe, are all still on the payroll and to my knowledge never made a court date. I live out of the area now but why do the pension fund trustees all consider this a one day a month obligation? PBPA and Brian Wight don't return phone calls because I'm retired.
3. the city was never going to fund it by 2040. this funding bill will guarantee your pension to at least 2055. until now our pension were never guaranteed.
4. so please keep the information flowing here but try to leave all bullshit and urban legend shit at home. if you don't have an informed source keep you opinions to yourself.
Cut Welfare and Food Stamp items and expenses, Not Pensions of City Workers. Support the Retirees, because if a ything gets taken from them, there will certainly be even less when you get thefe (retirement). Support better Cost of Living Increases too. You're gonna need it.
1. the only money that the pension plan was shorted was about 25 million in exchange for 29 and a day from 32 and a day. we never vote to give away money to the city Donahue did that. our contribution and the city's matching money is not enough plus a lot of bad investments from the old mayor Daley with the market fall of 2008 led to the shortfall. I went to one pension board meeting about 5 years ago and they spent the whole day in executive session. fop had a guy there and he said that's common but they at least had to take the votes in the open. he said hippa laws were some of the reason and fear of litigation might also be a part of the reason. he said our money with the city's matching money was not enough even with a good rate of return to support the growing number of retirees.
Wrong bucko.
Under the old pay schedule you got your last step raise at 30 years which means you had to work 4 more years after your step raise at 30 or 34 and a day to receive your maximum pension. With the plan that Donahue negotiated with the city you got your final step raise moved back or compressed to 25 years meaning that you could retire with the same maximum pension at 29 and a day or 5 years earlier. Adding on 5 years to every police officers life by removing them 5 years earlier and allowing them to enjoy life and possibly collect their pension for 5 years before they kicked was a hell of a deal for 25 Million. It's amazing how facts get thrown around here by people who haven't a clue to what their talking about.
4. so please keep the information flowing here but try to leave all bullshit and urban legend shit at home. if you don't have an informed source keep you opinions to yourself.
so funny read the previous thread I just posted.
Anonymous said...
Disability Dean supported the override of Rauner's veto of SB777. Instead of the pension being funded at a 90% level in 2040, the pension will now be 90% funded in 2055, at an extra cost of 27 billion dollars to the taxpayers. Dean just helped to kill the pension for all of us.
8/09/2016 09:20:00 PM
http://www.chipabf.org/ChicagoPolicePension/PDF/Advisor/2016/02Summer2016No58.pdf
Try reading the above article directly from the pension fund regarding the impact of sb777.
Cost to taxpayers 47 billion
Funding level in 2040 32.15% instead of 90% that the previous legislation called for.
Really, ask yourself how the city will miraculously bring the funding level up 58 % in 15 years when it will only increase 4% in 14 years.
Wrong bucko.
Under the old pay schedule you got your last step raise at 30 years which means you had to work 4 more years after your step raise at 30 or 34 and a day to receive your maximum pension. With the plan that Donahue negotiated with the city you got your final step raise moved back or compressed to 25 years meaning that you could retire with the same maximum pension at 29 and a day or 5 years earlier. Adding on 5 years to every police officers life by removing them 5 years earlier and allowing them to enjoy life and possibly collect their pension for 5 years before they kicked was a hell of a deal for 25 Million. It's amazing how facts get thrown around here by people who haven't a clue to what their talking about.
You left one important fact out. The city ELIMINATED the 30 year step raise. There was like a year or two phase out period and then the 39 year step raise was gone. I know I retired with the 39 year rate, my partner retired like 3 years later but with mout the 30 year rate
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Disability Dean supported the override of Rauner's veto of SB777. Instead of the pension being funded at a 90% level in 2040, the pension will now be 90% funded in 2055, at an extra cost of 27 billion dollars to the taxpayers. Dean just helped to kill the pension for all of us.
8/09/2016 09:20:00 PM
http://www.chipabf.org/ChicagoPolicePension/PDF/Advisor/2016/02Summer2016No58.pdf
Try reading the above article directly from the pension fund regarding the impact of sb777.
Cost to taxpayers 47 billion
Funding level in 2040 32.15% instead of 90% that the previous legislation called for.
Really, ask yourself how the city will miraculously bring the funding level up 58 % in 15 years when it will only increase 4% in 14 years.
8/10/2016 10:47:00 PM
***
Both you guys must have gone to school with Special Ed. Your pensions are now guaranteed until 2055 regardless of the funding. They were not before.
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