Video Review - Wrapping it Up
If you've been reading the past few days, you have seen the State Law and Department Policy addressed in what we think is a straightforward and direct manner. You may have been enlightened, bored, noncommittal, thankful. We're glad to have helped in any way we did.
You might not like this part as much.
While the most serious violations are Departmental in nature and not criminal, that isn't going to save certain members from administrative action. What we have seen here, we consider a monumental failure in training and preparing officers for street duty. Leaving aside the violation of General Orders we outlined in the past few days, in what world is this tactically sound?
You might not like this part as much.
While the most serious violations are Departmental in nature and not criminal, that isn't going to save certain members from administrative action. What we have seen here, we consider a monumental failure in training and preparing officers for street duty. Leaving aside the violation of General Orders we outlined in the past few days, in what world is this tactically sound?
Gun out in the car? Pointing where exactly? If the driver brakes hard, if you wreck, does anyone even teach "startle response"? How about "sympathetic muscle response"? What if you lose the gun during a collision?
This was tactically unsound:
This was tactically unsound:
Getting out of the car into the path on an onrushing automobile? We think everyone can agree, why are you placing yourself in harms way, when you have a perfectly suitable 4,000 pound safe spot to take shielding inside of - your squad car. Taking a day or three along with driving school for something some boss thinks is preventable is a better option that not having a job.
Then these:
Then these:
Crossfire!
See that squad in the distance? Beyond a distance we might fire three shots a year at qualification time?
This one chilled us to the bone:
This one chilled us to the bone:
Boosting another copper over the fence....with his gun in his hand. We can't see where his finger was, but What the Fuck? You perform as you train, and we're sorry, this appears to be an absolute failure of training.
Some people aren't going to happy we did this last post. The Department is getting it from all sides, politically at all levels, in the media, from the community. We're going to be accused of piling on, or pitting old against new, cops against cops, siding with them against us. You couldn't be more wrong. These videos are all out there. The politicians are already against us, beholden to the mob. Those who support the police will continue to do so, those who don't probably never did. We didn't put any of this out there, so don't blame us. Comments that do so will be deleted and forgotten in short order.
But these videos, believe it or not, can help, even if it's not the way we'd prefer - showing exactly where the shortfalls in training are, the things cameras record (visual and audio), where mistakes are made (and yes, mistakes were made). We're guessing that two guys are going to lose their jobs, and a third is going to carry around a burden no one wants.
Some people aren't going to happy we did this last post. The Department is getting it from all sides, politically at all levels, in the media, from the community. We're going to be accused of piling on, or pitting old against new, cops against cops, siding with them against us. You couldn't be more wrong. These videos are all out there. The politicians are already against us, beholden to the mob. Those who support the police will continue to do so, those who don't probably never did. We didn't put any of this out there, so don't blame us. Comments that do so will be deleted and forgotten in short order.
But these videos, believe it or not, can help, even if it's not the way we'd prefer - showing exactly where the shortfalls in training are, the things cameras record (visual and audio), where mistakes are made (and yes, mistakes were made). We're guessing that two guys are going to lose their jobs, and a third is going to carry around a burden no one wants.
Labels: video
posted by SCC at 12:07 AM
182 Comments:
Kudos SCC. You pretty much summed up my sentiments. Everything, pro or con, is a teachable moment. I always try to analyze my own actions and those of high profile incidents such as this one, to try to always improve my safety and attempt to avoid fatal or dangerous mistakes. Some out there need to learn, and learn quickly.
We have always been way behind in tactical type trying then say LA etc. you are correct...
The crossfire is the worst, I'd be super pissed to see myself on-camera being shot at by friendly fire.
We can only hope this will motivate rahm to invest more in training. Nahhh, he'll invest it in lawsuit payouts just to spite any union
Too much 21 Jumpstreet not enough Hill Street Blues.
This is a complete failure from the academy, to the ftos, and lack of experienced officers/supervisors to mentor. Every officer had less than 5yrs. Nobody had enough sense to tell the officers to shut up and sit them down in a squad for there own good.
But this is how we always done it! We're CPD! We don't need dat training!
Fucking assholes.
If you don't make training your hobby in this profession, you are truly fucking up. The city won't do it for you, until the Dept. of Justice forces their hand. It's up to you to take up shooting and martial arts as hobbies in this line of work today. It will not only save your life, but your career as well. Just some advice from an old guy with over twenty years on.
If they had a camera on any of us old timers when we had 3 years on we'd all been fired. We've all done tactically unsound things at one time or another I'm sure. These were split second decisions and I'm not going to criticize them for what they thought was right at the time. Unfortunately their shortcomings on this one incident is on public display for the world to sit and frame by frame dissect it. They took a hell of a hard job, tried their best to clean up shit neighborhoods and if they move on career wise, in the long run it might be for the best than working for this dept and city.
Honesty is often painful.
These young cowboys should have stayed fetal.
They must have missed the memo.
Ya can't teach common sense.....
TUNNEL VISION.
It's the hard truth, but you are correct, I've been saying for years now that the training we receive is a joke compared to other departments. Daley never wanted to spend money on the police and this is the result... Rahm follows suit, look at our equipment or lack there of. And don't get me started in our firearms training, great 30 round annual qualification that I laughed at the first time I did it 15 years ago and still laugh at it.
Numerous supervisors knew this kid was running around the dist all day, refusing to stop! He would pull over and then take off again.
How many of them were sent to call back for knowing P.O.'s were violating G.O's and not doing anything about it?
Nice job SCC, the law, orders and vid. Has any sergeant, lieutenant or captain been seen taking the time to address roll call covering those very points raised here on the blog? All valid issues. All having to do with officer safety and department protocol and not stepping into shit. One of the most important jobs of sergeant, lieutenant, or captain is to make sure the troops learn to not step in shit, keeping the troops alive. The supervisors failed the very troops in this vid that they are suppose to be leading.
It's a good realization that cpd training is awful.
Training, training, training!
I guess the CPD wants to cheap out on training and spend the money on funerals, lawsuits, and settlements. I know which one is more expensive in the short, long, and medium term. Maybe there are no competent people left amongst the cluted meritocracy to provide the training? What is the excuse?
"The Department is getting it from all sides, politically at all levels, in the media, from the community. We're going to be accused of piling on, or pitting old against new, cops against cops, siding with them against us. "
I can see why people would feel this way. However, while the position these officers are in is very unfortunate and not one I would ever wish on anyone of us, it can serve a purpose. It can serve as a learning experience. A good example of what NOT to do for both older, seasoned officers but especially younger officers. Side note: a mentorship program for younger officers with some sort of additional pay if the "mentor" is still roaming the ghetto with 15+ years on.
Sadly, the truth isn't always pretty. Well said, SCC.
A few more incidents like this where Mardi Gras Head ED can strip some P.O's and do rahm's dirty work, just might be enough to get his LIE-tenant girlfriend out of the scam!
I agree with you, SCC. This is a huge failure in training. If all of those cops have less than four years on the job, then that means they trained with one FTO in the car AND, two or maybe three other ppos for some or all of their training cycles. From there, they were tossed out into the "impact zones" and did not work a beat car for many months. While in the "impact zones" they were only working with other inexperienced officers still on their probation.
Where did this all begin? In the academy where they have many, many instructors with less than 5 years on the street. I am very disheartened for those officers. The department sure set them up for a big failure. To the brainchildren past and present who came up with this formula for training, congratulations on showing us how to successful fuck up a new officer's career and life.
Very nicely put. Much more tact than I would use if addressing those involved.
And you still have these stupid! dumb ass! motherfuckers! In 007 and 008 making stops and chasing after cars putting themselves and the assisting units in this very same situation to loose their and our livelihoods!!! I'm the dumb ass assisting unit that goes to assist not knowing what the outcome will be!!! I blame the bosses who keep asking for activity!! These young guys coming out of the academy don't know any better because they want to impress their boss.
What was the co-offender charged with?
This three part series was spot on.
Well one thing is for sure. No "clouted" person who trained these guys is going to be sweating about losing their jobs.
"I'm safe. I got clout."
Are training is a joke and always has been. Those videos should be training videos
I hate to say, but with almost 20 years on, I have made mistakes. I could have done some of these same things. You just need to discuss with a partner, and think things through. It is never worth getting hurt for nonsense. Watch videos from other states, other departments. Think how you would react in those situations.
Our academy needs to become much more militant in training! Enough with the soft bull shit! Don't matter who you are or who your mommy or daddy is! The academy should be tough and weed out the problem child!
Train ,Train, Train!!!
The Truth Is The TRUTH and your Wright and GOOD for showing this SCC , Cops could have been shot many a times by Cops in this incident.
Non PO here, thank you SCC for the facts and opinions.... No way trib or sun times does this....
Anonymous said...
This is a complete failure from the academy, to the ftos, and lack of experienced officers/supervisors to mentor. Every officer had less than 5yrs. Nobody had enough sense to tell the officers to shut up and sit them down in a squad for there own good.
8/10/2016 12:25:00 AM
________________________________________
This is so true.
Damned if you do, Damned if you don't. Sadly hindsight is always 20/20 and seeing the video gives the impression of pilots vision. Lots of room for improvement, but the only person to blame is the person who put these pieces in motion.
Anything more than a 30 day suspension is a witch hunt and a clear indication our leadership does not "have our back". I hope these young officers are treated fairly because before this convoluted order on shooting at moving cars came out, this could have been any of us.
Thanks, SCC. Your posts--and the resulting comments--made this an invaluable series even for non-LEOs like myself.
As McCarthy continues his big ego, everyone loved me (not true) Chicago media tour, we can all point a finger at him. McCarthy, under Rahm, changed the training program and we now have too many officers with under four years who aren't properly trained. Why in the hell would you assign two or three brand new officers to one field training officer? It's unfair and unsafe to all officers involved and it's insane.
This is not a criticism of the FTO's. How can anyone expect to teach three ppo's at one time and have the training be as effective as one on one training? It's not. Then the city sends the new officers on the street for foot patrol for months and months with other new officers in the worst neighborhoods. They don't have veteran officers to guide them.
Let's not forget all the spineless bosses who went along with the program, knowing it was wrong. Anything to keep their spot, even if it meant compromising safety for the rest of us.
So as the egotistical, maniac known as Garry McCarthy tours the city giving his "expert" advice, remember that this kind of training came about under his watch.
Yes. I thank you for your blog. There is a voice.
And is critical as well as complimentary.
Do not we all want such a forum?
Thank you.
To 12:57. How in the fuck is it the supervisor's fault? Did they all not go to the academy?
But this is how we always done it! We're CPD! We don't need dat training!
Fucking assholes.
If you don't make training your hobby in this profession, you are truly fucking up. The city won't do it for you, until the Dept. of Justice forces their hand. It's up to you to take up shooting and martial arts as hobbies in this line of work today. It will not only save your life, but your career as well. Just some advice from an old guy with over twenty years on.
8/10/2016 12:28:00 AM
Thanks for the advice, I'm going to start working on my crane kick technique today.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
If they had a camera on any of us old timers when we had 3 years on we'd all been fired. We've all done tactically unsound things at one time or another I'm sure. These were split second decisions and I'm not going to criticize them for what they thought was right at the time. Unfortunately their shortcomings on this one incident is on public display for the world to sit and frame by frame dissect it. They took a hell of a hard job, tried their best to clean up shit neighborhoods and if they move on career wise, in the long run it might be for the best than working for this dept and city.
8/10/2016 12:31:00 AM
This is the truth !!! Also some should FOIA the assignment records of the academy
staff. Will most likely reveal that most of the instructors have spent their entire careers in one "Spot" or another. Not in patrol.
Another great post by the great minds at SCC! But over here still chasing 2 people hit by chased vehicle the Cowboys cowgirls still not getting it:
http://www.fox32chicago.com/news/crime/187445333-story
Hi. Me Again.
Interesting thought. From the passenger side of the squad car a well trained load of buckshot might have made a difference.
Can't believe police units are surrendering a weapon ... Stop. Too bad criminal suppression is no longer an objective.
Where's the old timers....the ones with years on the job.....the ones with the experience. All I saw was young kids without a lot of discipline. The old timers might have slowed down the young hot shots. Seems like no training and no experience.
Time to clean out the academy. It has been said several times in the past that the people assigned to the academy are clouted or some bosses Dollie. Time to get more militaristic in training. Time for for a huge house cleaning over on Jackson!
Do you think any exempt has actually gone over that video like you have SCC?
Special Ed is still finding things disturbing. AND IPRA is fighting for its life trying to actually do investigation and not be dismantled.
RAHM is throwing officer under the bus at lightspeed and the public is in a feeding frenzy.
Do not work special employment boycott.
Well said
That's why it always better to work 1099. You don't have to work with any hot dogs.
Anonymous said...
This is a complete failure from the academy, to the ftos, and lack of experienced officers/supervisors to mentor. Every officer had less than 5yrs. Nobody had enough sense to tell the officers to shut up and sit them down in a squad for there own good.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I tell people the same thing. Someone should have put them in a car and told them to shut the fuck up until their Sgt came and had them shut those cameras off.
Read the departments g.o. on these cameras, what a trick bag that thing is. You cannot shut down the thing until a street deputy gets there and authorizes you to turn it off.
A dysfunctional academy filled with clout heavy cops, not trainers. A FTO program desperately trying to be rebuilt from a time when an FTO trained 3 recruits at a time. Unbelievable. And a department finally realizing the stupidity of sending out recruits in groups of ten to twenty to walk patrol in high crime areas prior to ever getting field training. Non-existent firearms training including force on force and don't shoot. And finally, in service training in the form of streaming videos that most people don't even watch. What could go wrong? You saw it all in the videos of this shooting.
All this drama over a dead shithead.
Ok enuff with bashing the supervisors! I have been supervising a few years and let me tell you, when I have tried to be productive at roll calls and talk about shootings, car chases, domestics, battery to police etc, the look on you guys faces are priceless. You guys have the look of:
"I could careless what the Sgt is saying"
"Her rollcalls are too long cause she likes to hear herself talk"
"I been up all night with the kids I'm too tired to pay attention"
"It will never happen to me"
"The PO's involved are silly and deserved it"
or my favorite look...
"I was in the military you cant tell me shyt I don't know"
So stop knocking supervisors!!! Some do try and explain, offer advice, and rollcall training when time allows.
PS...I did not cheat on the last LT Exam but I hope the losers involved are disciplined! They are part of the problem that helped create this cluster fuk.
SCC,
Your analyses are spot on.
Thanks for the great job you do on a daily basis.
Hey can we Hit 500 by the end of August, the pace has picked up, thank u, West sider's and South sider's and shout out to some N/W asshole's 4 the same thing.
I have gone through CCSPD and CPD academy. CPD is a fucking joke. A 6 month vacation! CCSPD didn't fuck around and they fucked you up if your muzzle so much as pointed anywhere near anything you weren't going to shoot at. I see it all the time out here, but no one can tell these hair gels anything. Hair gels are think they are veterans as soon as they complete their FTO cycles.
Stop chasing shit, people are trying to kill you. Go to your jobs, but treat every job as a possible fake Tinder account. Don't get caught with your pants down!! Let us go home safe to our families every fucking night.
The Ghetto Goblins laugh at you! You are just a part of the big video game they are playing while wasted on Lean and weed.
Simple answer...?
Don't play.
You are correct sir, but there is a time and place for everything. At this time and place we can not eat our own. There are enough sharks out there trying to take a big bite out of us. Let's not give them chum.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Our academy needs to become much more militant in training! Enough with the soft bull shit! Don't matter who you are or who your mommy or daddy is! The academy should be tough and weed out the problem child!
8/10/2016 04:00:00 AM
I don't think I would classify these coppers as "problem children". I think it's just a lack of training starting at the academy. Why is it that we shell out millions of dollars on shootings but can't cut loose with a million to purchase a shoot-don't shoot simulator? The academy's idea of a shoot-don't shoot simulator is to turn the target backward and when it faces you it's either a bad guy or old lady. Really??
They have had simulators for sale since the early 90's but here we are in 2016 and that's the best we can come up with? Part of the problem is that we don't train at all. All we do is qualify with our weapon and its teaching us muscle memory to shoot everytime the target faces you. It's ALWAYS a shoot situation and we are taking that back to the street. Break down and buy a shoot-don't shoot simulator like most real police departments have had for decades.
Thanks SCC. I was beginning to think you thought police could do not wrong. Glad you pointed this out and I hope people will realize this is the help, not harm. I appreciate your page and all of CPD. When I was a younger black kid on the streets of Roseland I was encouraged to distrust police. Thankfully those days are over for me. All police are not bad and certainly all citizens are not good. As to the training, I would say the same thing here I would say to my former Taekwondo students....Practice makes habit!!!
The agency selected cameras have a Wide Angle Field-of-View (FOV) which exaggerate depth perception, introduce 'barrel distortion, and make objects moving toward camera appear to move faster. They do not accurately represent objects as perceived by the human eye nor do they indicate where th officer's focus or attention is. The exaggerated perspective needs to be considered in reviewing body worn camera footage...especially the distortion of DISTANCE
and yet, civilians, who often spend a LOT more time and money training themselves, and are often much better at adhering to safe gun handling rules, are prevented from carrying a firearm in 23 different places. great. makes me feel that much safer.
This was once a proud Department but now its a Department run by Incompetence, we have a out right racist leader caving to the black community which is at the heart of the whole problem of death and mayhem. No one in this Department, media, reverends or general public mentions the crime that was committed which caused the police to shoot someone. America has become soft on crime, criminals are no longer afraid of being jailed, judges just let them go free, politicians pander the black community for votes without caring about the consequences of their actions by condemning the police. All this leads to the black community being totally defiance of a lawful police order and the fight is on and the ghetto lottery takes full affect. They can have all the community meetings they want but they never address the real problem they need to look in the mirror and they will see the real problem that needs addressing their own behavior.
Thanks for all the hard work and countless hours to really dissect the videos, if this a "teachable moment" lets hope coppers get it!
But then over here we still have coppers chasing cars, people getting hurt and for what:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-2-pedestrians-hit-by-car-fleeing-police-on-west-side-20160810-story.html
Unfortunately in my district when some of these young kids get into a foot chase, most of the time they do not even know what street they are on and where they are going. That is really dumb. If there are a dozen brothers waiting for you then you are fucked.
All training and gang strategies under McCarthy were a failure, we have to undo and redo his mess. Think about this...under McCarthy program an officer with 3 years on the job actually has less than 1 year of actual street experience.
Chickens coming home to roost!!!! This is what happens when u train PPO's in "zones" by themselves with no veteran officers and then unleash them to work with each other. All they've learned is how to reinforce their own bad habits and voilà, a shit show for all to see. I said this when they started this nonsense and now McJersey's bullshit has come to haunt us. Not a criticism, just an observation!!!
They will try to rectify this with a new streaming video.
The underlying issue is stop doing police work! Nobody cares if these animals rape, kill, and steal. Heaven forbid one of us is proactive. These greenhorns' hearts were in the right place but misguided. We were all young once and if you didn't make mistakes, you weren't working. Different time different culture. Observe and report. That's it. Stop chasing hot cars and looking for dope. You're playing Russian roulette with your partner's careers.
I have to ask the old timers in 003 and 004
Have you guys talked closed door in roll call to these younger cops?
Surely there has to be one crusty vet that can try to talk and explain what "Fetal" means
Thank You for being a pinnacle of honest assessment. We need fair dealers today more than ever.
NEED MORE TRAINING Said...
SCC, you are right on the money. Firemen are constantly training. As officers we don't get the training we need or deserve. We have to go to every call however ridiculous it is. i.e. Lady down on the ground, Fire requesting an assist, Man yelling, fire requesting an assist, I mean really. You fall on the street, call 3-1-1. Your child will not go to school, call 3-1-1. Your child took your pot and will not give it back, call 3-1-1.
Until policy changes, we will always get the short end of the stick
With such scrutiny, why are these coppers still trying to do police work. The Naperville resident has insurance, why are you chasing, and shooting at a movie vehicle that you put yourself in harms way in the first place.
I think the asshole bad guy got what he deserved. Unfortunately, a few of our own are going to pay the price for it.
Mistakes? Yes, we all have made them and I can go back a long way. I am thankful that my mistakes did not cause serious damage or that i was fired. But, that was based on luck. The one thing that has always been lacking, except for a very brief time, is annual in-service training. At least 2-3 days of it. The academy has had some good instructors, but mostly they are there because they know someone or are well liked, not because they really know anything or have the ability to teach others. It just seems like all a game, just going through the motions to satisfy some requirement. The training facilities in the CPD are so poor that it is an embarrassment. Johnson is asking his staff to find best practices around the country on use of force, well, maybe he should do the same for training standards. I sure hope DOJ forces the city hand in this. Training is everything when it comes to getting involved in a shit storm.The army taught me that. But this is democratic Chicago and everything is always on the cheap and all contracts are with the connected.
OT --
Past behavior indicative of future performance --
Shots fired and man mowed down as protests erupt in Ferguson on the second anniversary of Michael Brown's death
* Gunfire broke out during protests in Ferguson on the second anniversary of Michael Brown's fatal police shooting
* Protesters were seen cowering behind cars as shots were fired while a young man was injured in a hit-and-run after a car sped through protesters
* Hundreds of people marked anniversary of Brown's death in Missouri
* Crowds gathered at the spot on Canfield Drive where Brown was shot by [translation -- "attacked and tried to disarm"] Ferguson officer Darren Wilson on August 9, 2014
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3732665/Shots-fired-man-injured-hit-run-protests-erupt-Ferguson-second-anniversary-Michael-Brown-s-fatal-police-shooting.html
Its easy to do nothing and keep your windows rolled up, and thats what we should be doing in this climate, but should you be placed in a shoot situation by no choice (with a camera on) are you going to preform like a tactically superstar while conformimg to every dept. policy? The tactically errors reflect a lack of training provided by the dept. training that should push officers as close to the real thing as possible. Alot of monday morning quaterbacking going on, by folks that forget that the camera doesnt capture the tunnel vision, auditory exclusion, loss of fine motor skills, elevated respiratory and heart rate, etc.. stopping putting these kids on the cross, espically if you havent been there. Its bad enough the bosses threw them under the bus.
Great analysis, spot on training should be #1. We have lack of training when i came on we had vietnam vets as fto, they would slap you in the head and say "kid that's the wrong way" we were taught by the best, now you have what 3 kids with 1 fto who has no extra training? The coppers have the law on their side, the department modify s law to fit it's thug pandering agenda.
Funny the person in charge of the academy training and many of its former instructors all make merit promotions. If you have never been the real police and work the streets more than five years how can you train, supervise or lead a police academy. Yet you can go get the answers for exams.
Although I agree with you, I don't think it's a good idea to give any Defense attorney any help with this case. Poor training, young officers that are still not understanding that policing is dead, it's unfortunate.
I will never judge a copper in these situations. Unless you have been in it you have no clue. As a PO In a "quiet" north side district that has worked south and west side districts it disgusts me to hear coppers in the locker room talk like they know everything. Disgusts me
Not sure if these POs were prior military, but if they were they should've been more cognizant of muzzle awareness. That is huge in the service, and if you pointed your barrel anywhere in the wrong direction you got slapped upside the head and did push-ups for hours. It was engrained into your brain in the military. For life. Now they may not have been prior service, which explains the lack of this, because they do not teach enough of this crossfire barrel awareness in the academy. Not enough training in this at all here in CPD. I believe I remember there's a week at Near North and that's about it. Which that in and of itself is good training, but not nearly enough.
As a non-police citizen I agree with what you write, but also realize
the job the police is difficult, and I don't have the luxury to not feel what you
feel when doing something, but also not have the feelings of regret when you
could have done something. Stay safe
Excellent review of body cam videos SCC. Time and time for years law enforcement has desired to be professional, but until training includes self criticism and lessons learned to correct improper procedures, that goal will never be reached. Retired after 30years a cop.
Stay safe brothers.
What do you think you are going to get when P.O.'s with 5 years on the job and a phone call are doing the training? What can they teach anyone with only 5 years experiance?
We have P.P.O's in our dist that don't know how to do a case report!
I can't blame them because I know they wern't given the proper tools to do their jobs!
Our academy needs to become much more militant in training! Enough with the soft bull shit! Don't matter who you are or who your mommy or daddy is! The academy should be tough and weed out the problem child!
8/10/2016 04:00:00 AM
Are you kidding me? They want the exact opposite! Soft and friendly Police!
Your right SCC. This was a colossal fuck up and guess who will take the heat for it? Certainly not the Boss's and administrators who for many years have made every effort to put poorly trained officers on the street by their PC policy of "failing nobody at any time for training related matters". And these were young guys in their prime who are supposed to be some of our best. Handling your gun once a year in a qualification course a moron could pass by throwing the bullets at the target is a joke.
But in the end, no matter what, its up to each individual officer to improve themselves and continue their training. 95% of the shits we have on the job wouldnt go to the range if you gave them free ammo and let them do it on duty.
When does "the community" get trained in how to properly respond to police and their lawful orders???
That seems to be the 800 pound gorilla in the room that the BLM groups and the media refuse to acknowledge!
In 2001 I got into my first shooting on this job
Thank god for me we recovered a weapon and
I was justified in my actions
Different time then !!! I had a lot of veteran officers
Around me for support and a bunch of great bosses
None the less after the smoke settled I realized
My tactics where for shit and the shit I was taught
In the academy was bare minimum , fortunate
For me I came on at a different time and we could still
Be the police but I started training as much as I could
I remember in the academy an instructor told us it's up to you
To continue your training so I took everything the city gave
In term of training ( not much ) but I also trained with special
Groups outside of the dept couple groups out of Wisconsin
And even one here in il point is if your gonna go out and do
This job then you better start fucking thinking about this
Job and if your the dude that wants to drinking after work
With your guys all the time instead of maybe taking a shooting
Course or maybe start training your self to defeat tunnel
Vision etc then your gonna be the guy who points his gun
At his partner or shoots at someone or something when you
Are not supposed to or maybe you'll be the guy who says
Fuckit I'm not gonna do shit and gets himself or his partner
Killed because your confidence and understanding of the situation
Your in is way to much for you to process like right now
Either way you better lock on right now and figure it out
Training
Training
Training
What's the average we get 10 mind a weapon qual a year?
Pathetic
Where is the FOP
DOJ just released their finding about the Baltimore police department. No surprise, the police are the problem and when they change and respect the thugs and criminals crime will diminish and unicorns will be parading up and down the streets.
Another hot car in 15/11 last night that ended up with 4 PO's at Rhe hospital.
Hair gels !!! If it's not a 10-1 who cares there are over 430 homicides thus far
Slow down go home at night. Are you not staying current with the climate of this dept. chasing a hot car for what ?
I say start giving these supervisors time for not terminating chase
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Our academy needs to become much more militant in training! Enough with the soft bull shit! Don't matter who you are or who your mommy or daddy is! The academy should be tough and weed out the problem child!
8/10/2016 04:00:00 AM
Academy has turned into a kindergarten. Pretty sure soon they'll adopt nap times where instructors read them stories. Recruits get to critique instructors every week and cry how their feelings were hurt and how they should be afforded more rights. Drink coffee in the class room, get up and come and go as you please in the middle of the class. I was an instructor few years back and couldn't believe how soft everything had gotten. Recruits were even complaining of having to write to-from's. They said they should be asked if they liked to write one when they fucked up. It' s the new generation of soft balls who cannot survive militant training. You also have to have bosses at the academy who support strict training and instructors who are willing to execute it. Anyway, class it's time for cookies and milk!
I retired after 31 years with all but 7of those years in patrol. Years in 5,6,7,9,22. I worked tac and patrol I was a Sgt, Lt, both In tac and patrol. I held and attended roll calls. Through all those years the lack of training was obvious. In service was a joke, and only taught the changes in GO that affected the bottom line of the day. Useless! Scenerio based use of force what a joke, non existent. Firearms use and qualification a joke.!People who should not have even passed through the academy were on the street and firing line both at the range and real life calls. As a supervisor I always knew it was my job to keep my POs out of trouble and I would often do so for their own good. If a major event took place, police shooting, car chase, foot chase, resisting ,IOD it would be discussed by the captain or myself as Lt. At both roll calls the next day with input from those involved. We would discuss what was right as well as what was wrong. Self criticism' works as a training tool.We used the GO as the guideline and we trained our watch because the Dept was a failure. I don't know if this practice is on going today, you new true experienced supervisors to manage watches and train people every day ,every shift. Not bull shit training videos no one listens to. I learned all this in 007 working for one of the best patrol Captains I had the please of knowing. May he RIP Capt Joe Mullen. I don't know how many like him are around today.
< Anonymous Anonymous said...
Our academy needs to become much more militant in training! Enough with the soft bull shit! Don't matter who you are or who your mommy or daddy is! The academy should be tough and weed out the problem child!
8/10/2016 04:00:00 AM>
You are totally right. Over the years I have seen how entire families use this department as their own personal money trough. Being born into the right family not only means a city job with pension but also gives you the RIGHT to move up in a career that is supposed to be based on rules and ethics yet becomes used like a cicero whore. It's completely disgusting! As far as training goes, we get the minimum amount at the highest bidder price. It's shocking this department has lasted as long as it has without federal oversight.
It's not the academy training, it's the use of PPOs as free labor for details instead of being with an FTO (one who really cares about being an FTO)
every major PD in the country makes being an FTO , even for a year or less, part of a prerequisite to promotion, why not ours?
Scc, I feel your credibility doubled with this post. We never like criticism, but once we get past our bruised egos, we can learn from our mistakes, and unfortunately mistakes were made in this incident. What is unfortunate is the fact that all the "movements" are demanding reform as opposed to better training beginning with tactics. Chicago Police Department is not a racist department but it's overall training is lacking. Problems begin with recruits. I constantly hear the word "Why" whenever a shitty assignment is given. Get rid of that on day one of the academy. Maybe the academy needs to be more military. My DI in the marines was not my friend, but he taught me well. Same should go in the academy. I also agree that an overhaul of the academy staff is needed. Most of these kids coming in to this line of work are not stupid but they are still kids and many have never gotten a swift kick in the ass when they do not perform their tasks properly or question authority. If I catch some heat for this post, so be it. 28+ years on this job as given me a nice thick "dinosaur" skin.
That being said, I know society has changed and not for the good. I believe we must change a bit ourselves, but our city and department "leaders" need to figure out that cowering to the rev's, activists, BLM and the like is a complete failure....as evidenced by our murders and shootings. Time for our mayor and top brass to grow a pair and point out that our department is not the sole problem.
Till that happens, if it happens, God bless us all and keep us safe.
It's ridiculous that the guy who stole a car, led the police on a chase and crashed into two police cars is the person that the community, the media and the politicians are behind. We are screwed.
Doesn't the technology exist to disable a car remotely.
For example, if I rented a car from Hertz or Avis and I was car jacked, couldn't I call Hertz or Avis and they would disable the engine remotely?
Garry McCarthy. Need we say more.
I have done some dum shit on this job but shooting at other coppers was never on of them. Training can't fix stupid. I'm pretty sure the first thing they teach you at the range is still don't point your gun at anything that you aren't ready to kill. So skip the we need training part. No we need a test that measures common sense.
When the shit hits the fan, all the training in the world goes out the window.
Valid points SCC and the photos make it easy to understand for the few who STILL DON'T GET IT.
THE DOJ just about wrapped up the Obama Admin case that the CPD is guilty of racial bias and excessive force with this example.
Rahm should be proud that he just delivered "the community" more violent untouchable thugs.
He and his pandering bedfellows handcuffed the wrong people.
Right now we have no choice...Get It? Hmmm?
What would happen if NOBODY did a traffic stop, arrest or chased anymore, would the 1st and 16th cease to exist?
Did Rahm Emanuel and Special Ed fire up the wrong people?
You get to decide.
Calling in sick this weekend is the first step of finding the answer.
SCC said:
"...Those who support the police will continue to do so, those who don't probably never did..."
Perfectly put.
Retired, 30+
" I hate to say it, but with almost 20 years on, I have made mistakes."
We've all made mistakes. It's impossible to turn off your emotions and handle every volatile situation like a robot. That's why SCC is spot on about the training. Most older guys like myself have learned through the natural progression of personal experiences and the observation of other's mistakes. But we could all benefit from retraining. Years ago there was an in-service class that retrained everyone to approach dangerous situations by showing us how lax we became over the years. Some of it was cheesy, but 90 percent of it was actually useful. It emphasized how (more often than not) it's never a bad idea to use cover and a bit of time to re-assess a dangerous situation. I think it was called street survival or something similar. Sounds like we could all use a refresher course.
Black Democrat city, black Democrat gov’t, black Democrat PD brass, black Democrat city council, black Democrat mayor and black State’s Attorney
And now the federal government, with a black President and a black Attorney General, is telling the black-run city of Baltimore to stop oppressing blacks.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/10/us/justice-department-to-release-blistering-report-of-racial-bias-by-baltimore-police.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
In today's Chicago fibune page 10 articles about black cops reading it objectively Eddie finally needs to be a man a leader take a stand put black cops in black communities all the talk it may actually work! Now Eddie do you feel lucky while do you boss? Read the article not racist but realistic!
OT . . . Sort off,
FOX News at noon just reported a woman on the west side
was run over by a car being chased by CPD.
HOW STUPID ARE YOU?
Don't chase anyone or anything!
I
Those who can't do, teach. I never thought much of most of my teachers in school. I'm not sure if the fto is the problem but when I came on my ftos were salty old vets. They taught me a honest day's work for honest day's pay. I.e. Couple Parkers couple of stops backing people up and going home with everything you brought to work. nobody knows how to be the police when they first start its developed over time and by working with many different officers. You take what you can from the good officers and forget the bad ones. I think more ppos should be sent to all district to stay and develop and if they want they can bid out after some time. If they want to go to a faster or slower district that's on them, if they want to go to a unit same as before. But at least they can have the time to develop and learn. My two sense
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Our academy needs to become much more militant in training! Enough with the soft bull shit! Don't matter who you are or who your mommy or daddy is! The academy should be tough and weed out the problem child!
you are so dumb !!!! this has nothing to do with militant training it has to do with lack of commonsense we need better field training officers who are not scare to fail someone who they know is not police material .
"Side note: a mentorship program for younger officers with some sort of additional pay if the "mentor" is still roaming the ghetto with 15+ years on.
8/10/2016 01:12:00 AM"
Not todays Officer, most have all the answers and when you suggest something it's the eye roll , the snort, or the direct you don't know what you're talking about. Until they step in something and then these motherfuckers become indignant & demand you help them and cry to the Sgt.
Chicago Pussy Dept years in the making now a reality
It starts at the academy. The academy is filled with clout heavy, never been the police hacks. Then each FTO gets 2 recruits (while on their training cycles) at a time and on top of that if an FTO takes time the PPO gets stuck on the desk because Rham won't allow anyone to get out of grade for the tour. The send the recruits to the jump out squad or whatever it is and put them together when they are off probation. It's a recipe for disaster. Bring back training districts and leave the recruits there to WORK THE STREETS and LEARN. This is what happens when you do police on the cheap brought to us by Rham.
Officer nonchalance with guns is a well-known rule among competitive shooters.
It would benefit both officers & the public greatly if cops were encouraged, even paid a spiff, to participate in USPSA sanctioned shooting events. Safe handling of pistols becomes second nature when drilled to the level that sport requires.
This also applies to CC licensees. The boob tube has taught two generations of Americans a whole mountain of STUPID when it comes to guns.
SCC, your series was very well done, very informative, & very accurate.
You put in a lot of time & effort into this endeavor; and it's greatly appreciated by your many readers. Thanks!
Been on the job 25 years, always been the "Working Police." Training throughout the years has always been what I would call minimal, very basic, and a joke. The FTO program throughout the years has been average at best. You were lucky and fortunate if your FTO was professional, competent and caring. The training today along with the hiring process is a total joke. The City/CPD has sunk to its lowest levels in the hiring of the worse classes of recruits in the past several years.
Plenty are applying amd taking the job because times are tuff and their college major isnt cutting it. The world has changed and not in favor of law enforcement due to BLM scams, politicians and the liberal bias media. Want the fix? Most of the population is not cut out to be the police. We are professionals..right? Then hire the best qualified for the job. Stop hiring practices based race, sex, ethnicity etc. Have higher standards,only the most qualified, it would work. Enough on the affirmative bs double standards. Every district/unit has excellent working police officers that other colleagues and supervisors know who they are. Ofer those officers incentives to teach, train and learn from. It would make our dept much stronger and professional. And as far as the stay fetal, you took an oath on this job to serve and protect. So do that honorably, and be smart and professional. The dogs and trash talkers on the job ruin the morale for the rest of us. Stay safe..
They have a saying in Special Forces that "everyday is selection day".
It means just what it says, that regardless of the fact that you "made it" into your chosen profession, whether it be as a soldier, cop, fireman, etc., you have to prove yourself on a daily basis. Especially in units like SF, who serve in the remotest parts of the planet, in small groups, and on many occasions can't call for any more backup, it's important that you can trust the man on either side of you (or behind you, perhaps helping to boost you over an obstruction) with your life, at all times.
I would say SCC that this actually might be the most important of the 3 posts you put up. Police need to police each other, correct any deficiencies through training when they crop up, and yes, blow the whistle on a cop who simply is not cut out for this type of work, either by his actions or his temperament.
The problem of course is that anybody who might point out something "wrong", either with an individual or with a practice, gets permanently labeled as a rat and somebody who can't be trusted. But as that one body camera footage showed, keeping your mouth shut can have dire consequences.
I wonder what the outcome of this whole mess would have been had these videos not been available. I'm not talking about O'Neal, he's close to 100% responsible, by his actions, for bring his demise upon himself. I'm talking about your fellow cops, who made some serious, life threatening mistakes. Would this online conversation even be taking place if they weren't available? Would any of the police involved, in particular the officer who had his weapon out while the vehicle was moving, fired in the direction of his partner and pointed the same weapon at a fellow officer as he boosted him over the fence?
I'm afraid that would not be the case.
I hate to Monday morning QB issues but this is just a shit show. I said the same thing SCC did. We know from experience that hot cars are usually just hot cars, they usually drive crazy, like the chase, and then dump the car. Usually no weapons involved. If you see a weapon, I could see unholstering in the car but it's dangerous unless necessary. If you're hit, the airbag goes off, what do you think happens to your weapon? When opening the door with a gun in your dominant hand, bad shit can happen. This is shit you learn from experience and learning to control your adrenaline and recognizing patterns with various crimes. The other thing that I realized is taking your gun out and pointing it switches in a a threat-based mindset. You are unintentionally priming yourself for a threat that may not even exist. I'm not at all saying don't take your gun out. When I got out of the academy, I'd pull it out in a foot chase and then realized it slows me down, is not necessary and can lead to an accident. Imagine running after someone while pointing a gun at them without seeing a weapon. It just doesn't make sense and bad shit can happen.
I noticed when I first watched the video the same thing when the guy shoved his gun in the guys back to push him over the gate. I could never imagine doing this. We have gear that can snag the trigger even without your finger manipulation. It was really horrifying to watch this recklessness. Again, he had tunnel vision and was completely out of touch with logic.
I think the poor Driver shot one round out of sympathetic fire.
The really f-Ed up part is how all these guys had so little time on the job. We need to mentor new folks. Don't simply say, "stay fetal." Unfortunately, it appears they were able to feed off of each other's hung-ho attitudes. They wanted the excitement, the glory of a good arrest but just don't have the time on to see the job for what it is. We need to pair junior guys up with people with some time on who can balance the natural aggression and desire to "make a difference" with sound judgement based off of experience. This has to extend passed their cycles and must include a hotwash after hot calls where the various decisions are discussed. We've all been there where an offender just keeps going after us and we lose our cool. We depend on our partners to look out for us to diffuse the situation. This parallels the types of problems we see in this video with young guys who just don't have other, more experienced partners.
Again, sorry for sounding judgemental but this situation escalated before it even escalated if that makes sense. I just don't want to see people screw themselves and those with less experience lack the ability to process information when in a stressful situation. Good luck all
No leadership and lack of training by design. Fop you should be doing job instead of collecting a check.
I'm good I watched a video on the computer I know everything.
Promote Sgt's that never made arrest.
At least a week for in service training the fop should be fighting for.
I agree with this post. You have pointed out the problems regarding this incident. I really don't believe these officers where properly field trained. This is what happens when we have a flawed field training program. You newer officers on this job better wise up and loose your egos we are not above the law. You need to show common sense and some restraint. Don't let your emotions get the best of you because that is when mistakes happen that may cost you not only your job but your life. Stay safe, police smart and go home at the end of the night to your loved ones.
Are training is a joke and always has been. Those videos should be training videos
No those 3yr wonders are and probably this being their first real fucking job other than shopping mall kiosk salesperson. When the depositions comes, Officer were you trained to do that or did you just make up your own use of force policy. Because your training record doesn't show those techniques being taught. Kids with guns and absolutely clueless on common sense, who's side are you guys and gals on really? Staying fetal really, really, really works. Believe us now dummies!
SCC everything you've pointed out and commented on regarding the videos is spot on. I think this just goes to show that we all need to be cognizant at all times (even more when equipped with a body camera). We should always place officer safety first and foremost, exercise sound tactics, and use common sense. The discussion of these videos and the input from everyone's perspective can be a lesson for all of us. Learn from our mistakes and others. At the end of the day, nothing on this job is worth jeopardizing your safety or the safety of your fellow officers, your job, or your freedom. Stay safe everyone.
There is NO WAY I am working at BUD BILLIKEN on Sat in a Yellow Vest lined up in a row like the planes at Pearl Harbor. I have 27 yrs on the job and always prided myself in doing what is right and just for my community but this is suicide. My Lt and Sgt said it's an instant dump from my Unit but go ahead. I would rather be banished to 1st watch in the ghetto than gunned downed at a Farsical Parade that will center on its hatred of Law and Order. Let it Burn I am done.
Anonymous said...
Our academy needs to become much more militant in training! Enough with the soft bull shit! Don't matter who you are or who your mommy or daddy is! The academy should be tough and weed out the problem child!
8/10/2016 04:00:00 AM
Forget it man...
A gym full of recruits doing push-ups until they're laying
in a puddle of their own sweat/puke like when we went through?
Some recruit's "Helicopter Parent" will fire off an angry
letter of complaint.
Going "Hands-On" in Control Tactics? Fast, hard, mean and ugly just
like Dude does in places like 003 through 009 and 010, 011 and 015?
Please... Somebody's little snowflake will throw their "Time-Out" flag.
Getting caught leaning on a wall or in a "Sucking Wind" position? (Hands on
knees trying to catch breath)
Well now that's just a failure on your entire home room or recruit class.
No lunch... Lean and rest is your afternoon nourishment.
To say nothing of the slackers being discretely dealt with by their
classmates in the locker room or in some far off corner away from
prying eyes.
"Stop being a fuck-up or drop the fuck out!"
>Smack! Thump!<
Never again...
Such training breeds angry, aggressive, combative and dangerous Policemen
ill-suited for places like Grand Crossing, Gresham, Englewood, Harrison and
Grand-Central.
Right?
You know... Who in hell believes in training like you'll
have to fight anymore? Chicago Policing is undergoing a
forced change to embrace optics that have greater curb appeal.
...No Matter How Many Lives, Families and Homes
Will Be Required To Be Ruined or Lost In The Process.
Righteous and Rightful Bad-Assery, Swagger and Ass-Kickery
by The Police will never again allowed to be seen in this city.
Even if Dude Inc. were to invade City Hall, Downtown corporate HQs
and media outlet executive suites to rape, maim and kill.
There will be no demand for The Police to step in with their
full power and make things right.
Why... That would be an overt admission that the "Narrative" is flawed.
Police Like You Have No Friends.
Report on crime events after the fact without
letting yourselves become part of the narration,
then be sure to go home to your families and
loved ON TIME at the conclusion of your tour of duty.
Leave fools to their own devices.
When you hire by "LOTTO" & then promote these, who would be at the bottom of a graded test you get merit managers who should be car wash attendants. Is it any wonder that this the outcome...
Every instructor at the Academy should be launched.
To "will be disappointed"
Under b-4 of the statute, Agg Assault is a felony if armed with a Category I, II or III weapon. If you can cite where an automobile can't be interpreted as a Category III (like) weapon, we'd appreciate it. We believe it has been in the past, but we could be mistaken.
I assume the Federal DoJ review team will have something to say about training, mentoring, assignments for new officers, and the like.
I'm former LEO; very happy to see so many guys supporting your story. It was always very tough to "think tactically" and try to stay one step ahead on your moves. This looks like it was a textbook example.
Yep, the training has to be hard, often, and re-emphasized. If CPD isn't doing that, nothing's gonna help.
Better watch your six. Remember - you're not being paranoid if everybody's out to get you.
Driving south on the Stevenson...rush hour......when a black Mercedes driving the shoulder traveling at least 100.....swerving in and out of the lanes....hmmm...guess the word is out that driving a car likes maniac, stolen or not, has no worries ......hmmmm cool ...get outta the way boys and girls!!!!............thanks...
Defense driving....drive like your always on duty......aahh society.........waiting for the egg to crack...
Prince Valium
I'm with ISP where we shoot 4 times a year, have 4 defensive tactic sessions, crowd control and rapid deployment and I still don't think it's enough training. This stuff has to be done on a monthly basis by the department for it to be even remotely effective. Until then, training is lip service for the CYA crowd in case of lawsuits.
When my partner would take time off I would voluntarily take on the new guys and be the acting FTO. After a hot call or hot assist I would debrief basically the same way we did after a search warrant. I would go over our tactics and point out the negatives then finish with an accentuation on what was done in a positive safe manner. The main point of the entire discussion would be OFFICER SAFETY IS PARAMOUNT. I have seen those same officers now some 15 years later and they still remember those talks...we have to be here for each other to make sure we all go home. The problem is pairing up new guys with each other, never did work and never will.
I find it hilarious how everyone here is screaming how we need more training. Have any of you people been to any training classes??? Every know it all on this job does nothing but screw off, sleep or try to get out of every training class there is. Everyone wants a two hour lunch or no lunch at all so they can leave early. If the instructors keep the classes a whole tour or in some cases even 3/4 of the trout you hear nothing but moans and groans and complaining about how they just want to get out of there. People who ask questions during classes are looked at with death stares because we all know more questions means you stay longer. Give me a break, nobody takes any training seriously in this department.
I have to ask the old timers in 003 and 004
Have you guys talked closed door in roll call to these younger cops?
Surely there has to be one crusty vet that can try to talk and explain what "Fetal" means
8/10/2016 08:49:00 AM
New police are like the young bangers in the street, when you try and talk to them they say " You had your time" and walk away!
"Hi. Me Again.
Interesting thought. From the passenger side of the squad car a well trained load of buckshot might have made a difference."
- - - - -
Asinine comment. He already muzzled his partner standing across the street as it was. Blasting a shotgun in the same direction would have only increased the probability of hitting him.
A lot of posts here bash a general "lack of training." While that is undoubtedly true, some mistakes are so basic that they beg the question whether training is the real problem. Most obvious are the mistakes in gun handling. Why does a person even need formal training to realize that you don't ever point your gun at something you're not willing to destroy? Such as your partner in the car or later across the street. Such as the CPD car downrange from the Jag when shots were actually fired. Such as the officer going over the door. This is basic common sense that should be automatically understood by anyone who picks up a gun, and become ingrained shortly thereafter, even before it's formally covered by training.
The videos reveal a deficiency that goes deeper than simply lack of training. On the plus side, there's a good chance that the video will result in corrective action being taken now before an officer is accidentally shot in the future.
For that we should all be thankful.
The 2013 test is when they lowered the age to take the test to 18 and (back) to 21 to become a police officer. Maybe it needs to be changed again....25 to become a police officer.
The lack of training is akin to the Ford Pinto controversy.
It is cheaper to pay off lawsuits brought upon due to a lack of training than to pay the cost to train the entire department.
Therefore, it is up to the individual officer to stay updated on the General Orders, State Law, and Supreme Court Decisions.
In 28 years of ghetto districts/neighborhoods/streets on each watch I was never once confronted with a shoot/don't shoot event by a paper target.
That is all.
Stay Fetal
Anonymous said...
In 2001 I got into my first shooting on this job
Thank god for me we recovered a weapon and
I was justified in my actions
Different time then !!! I had a lot of veteran officers
Around me for support and a bunch of great bosses
None the less after the smoke settled I realized
My tactics where for shit and the shit I was taught
In the academy was bare minimum , fortunate
For me I came on at a different time and we could still
Be the police but I started training as much as I could
I remember in the academy an instructor told us it's up to you
To continue your training so I took everything the city gave
In term of training ( not much ) but I also trained with special
Groups outside of the dept couple groups out of Wisconsin
And even one here in il point is if your gonna go out and do
This job then you better start fucking thinking about this
Job and if your the dude that wants to drinking after work
With your guys all the time instead of maybe taking a shooting
Course or maybe start training your self to defeat tunnel
Vision etc then your gonna be the guy who points his gun
At his partner or shoots at someone or something when you
Are not supposed to or maybe you'll be the guy who says
Fuckit I'm not gonna do shit and gets himself or his partner
Killed because your confidence and understanding of the situation
Your in is way to much for you to process like right now
Either way you better lock on right now and figure it out
8/10/2016 09:54:00 AM
Since you're so interested in telling people what they should be doing, I'd suggest you take a remedial fourth grade writing course. When the shit hits the fan and you need to write paper, you'll not want to be embarrassed at depositions and the trial.
SSC:"Gun out in the car? Pointing where exactly? If the driver brakes hard, if you wreck, does anyone even teach "startle response"? How about "sympathetic muscle response"? What if you lose the gun during a collision?"
Exactly!! remember the FBI shootout in 1986? One of the Agents was out of the fight from the get go when his S&W 13 tucked under his leg was lost in the car when they rammed the bad guys car.He didn't have a BUG.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Doesn't the technology exist to disable a car remotely.
For example, if I rented a car from Hertz or Avis and I was car jacked, couldn't I call Hertz or Avis and they would disable the engine remotely?
8/10/2016 11:14:00 AM
It's possible. But no one wants the liability of disabling a moving car and causing death or destruction. It's not as simple as you imply.
It starts at the academy. The academy is filled with clout heavy, never been the police hacks. Then each FTO gets 2 recruits (while on their training cycles) at a time and on top of that if an FTO takes time the PPO gets stuck on the desk because Rham won't allow anyone to get out of grade for the tour. The send the recruits to the jump out squad or whatever it is and put them together when they are off probation. It's a recipe for disaster. Bring back training districts and leave the recruits there to WORK THE STREETS and LEARN. This is what happens when you do police on the cheap brought to us by Rhamy
--------------------------
Like the FTO in 025 that got stripped of his 2 chevrons for putting his PPOS in lean and rest while on their cycles. You loser.
stay fetal
have body camera recording all the lost children
why isn't case report prepared , child neglect
baby sittin for baby mama , while they smoking weed , makin more babies , sperm donor unkown
If you dont stay fetal , if you chase everything in todays world , yoy are an idiot . You will be crucified by the media , the brass and your fellow cops . Because you were warned so many times , so many ways by so many people ! Stop. Think.
I was lucky to have a viet nam vet(Black Officer who was in my wedding) as my FTO.Most of the older guys on the watch were 'nam vets too. My long time partner in patrol was also a viet nam vet.Say what you want about the military,but I'm able to post here this day about the men who shaped my career, without any extra holes in my body. Great Fucking Guys.Thanks.(And RIP to some).
I think it takes a long time to be a good police officer, and we need to teach each other. Many times, officers would try to one up each other with stories, or criticize, but we have to learn from each other. If other officers say they will not work with guys like this, how will these guys, or any others , learn? Now, to fire them, instead of teach them, I don't think that will improve the department. We older officers have to teach the new ones.
Good analysis, and much needed. Speaking as a civilian, one of the reasons there's been such a muted public response to the BLM Marxists' bullshit is that cowboy behavior isn't limited to high-profile incidents in the urban war zone and Americans are becoming increasingly disillusioned with the public sector in general. It is in everyone's best interest that the points of failure be analyzed and corrected, or things could get very ugly as the country lurches closer to tangible social unrest.
We're these coppers part of the jump out boys? No fto. No real street training. Another great idea from an outsider.
This is a product of the new generation that doesn't want to hear it and knows everything from the start. None of the younger people want to listen to any of the older seasoned officers on this job. So the result is what you are viewing on the officers body cameras. The other problem is the training academy. Pull up a unit listing of all the employees there and you'll be shocked to see how many people have less than six years on the job and are assigned to the academy as instructors. Absolutely pathetic.
THIS IS ALL THE DEPARTMENTS FAULT... Lack of training .... Lack of supervision!!!!!!! The academy is a joke, we have NO TRAINING AFTER THAT, unless you voulunteer "Beg" to go to a rifle or lemart class. NOW THEY HAVE PPO's of "foot patrol", working together with other PPO's the entire time they are on probation! So They learn absolutely NOTHING the entite time they are on probation, and pick up bad habits along the way. Then when they are off Probation they work with someone else that just got off probation. They are working in a fast district, with a bunch of other rookies and to TOP IT OFF, they have NO supervision, 7, 4, etc are soo short sgts it is unbelievable. 1 sgt for every 30+++ PO's!!! WHAT DO YOU EXPECT TO HAPPEN????
Blogger SCC said...
To "will be disappointed"
Under b-4 of the statute, Agg Assault is a felony if armed with a Category I, II or III weapon. If you can cite where an automobile can't be interpreted as a Category III (like) weapon, we'd appreciate it. We believe it has been in the past, but we could be mistaken.
*****
Agg Assault PO/Motor Vehicle is specifically named a Class 3 felony.
5/12-2(c)(8)
"...as the country lurches closer to tangible social unrest."
8/10/2016 08:16:00 PM
Uh -- I think we're already there; have been since about 1964.
There is NO WAY I am working at BUD BILLIKEN on Sat in a Yellow Vest lined up in a row like the planes at Pearl Harbor. I have 27 yrs on the job and always prided myself in doing what is right and just for my community but this is suicide. My Lt and Sgt said it's an instant dump from my Unit but go ahead. I would rather be banished to 1st watch in the ghetto than gunned downed at a Farsical Parade that will center on its hatred of Law an
If you got 27 years on dummy - you should have taken 9a - EVERYONE circles that on their calander by the 2nd of Jan. Also - they have these things called personal days. With so many years, seems you'd be able to get off. enjoy the 9 hour parade from hell ... Stay hydrated.
Yes the Chicago Police are sloppy, inexperienced, and improperly and under-trained, but it is the fault of the City, that always has plenty of money to throw away to Welfare Recipient Parasites and the filers of frivolous lawsuits filed on their behalf by Dime a Dozen Ass Clown shyster Lawyers, and the Political Hack Pay-to-Play CPD Supervisors, who most could not properly supervise a Kool-Aid Stand, not entirely the fault of the Officers.
Anonymous said...
Training
Training
Training
What's the average we get 10 mind a weapon qual a year?
Pathetic
Where is the FOP
1412 West Washington
8/10/2016 10:01:00 AM
To 6:31. I'm going to assume you are a supervisor. You tell us which of the four supervisors first on scene (3 Sgts & Lt) took charge of the scene? Which supervisor had these officers sit in a car and shut their mouth and have someone call FOP for them? This action in itself would have made some of this better. Which supervisor was directing all the officers standing around to secure the scene? This video simply shows the lack of supervision on our job.
Nice, honest and thoughtful, analysis SCC. Even though this was a bad day, I'm proud of these guys who put their jobs and lives at risk trying to keep Chicago as livable and safe as they could. Much braver people than the rest of us.
I never believe in Monday morning quarter-backing we all have done things that haven't been per department orders we just didn't have cameras attached to our bodies! Officers need to just stop doing beyond their job... we are not appreciate
Anonymous said...
It's not the academy training, it's the use of PPOs as free labor for details instead of being with an FTO (one who really cares about being an FTO)
every major PD in the country makes being an FTO , even for a year or less, part of a prerequisite to promotion, why not ours?
8/10/2016 10:31:00 AM
No they don't. The FTO program sucks and if they wanted to make it something like a career path they would have to completely shit can it. %70 of the FTO's on the job suck. There is probably one good one per district, that's generous. A couple of years ago everyone who passed the FTO test was promoted. Complete fucking joke.
The crying shame about this is that this shows what happens when your city's chief executive has hatred for the police, sees the police department not as a critical unit of government function and public safety, but a job bank to load with his toadies. Put people in big dollar positions for which they are totally disinterested and outmatched.
These guys screwed up. But the City and the Department failed them by not giving them the structure, training and guidance to make them successful.
Anyone with any police talent and knowledge of how to do policing has been driven out of this organization. To be replaced by boot-lickers.
Rahm is like most of the current political leadership in this country: The problems have been glossed over for so long, hard decisions have been put off and the resources to fix anything squandered. And they have no clue as they are is so over their head.
As a lifelong non-cop Chicagoan, I just want to say to SCC- Thanks for the intellectually honest, tough analysis of the O'Neal multiple felony day that ended badly for him and also a genuine THANK YOU to all the well trained and not well trained cops that take on a responsibility to keep this city as nice and as safe as they can with the limited resources we provide. Thanks!
Just read an article in the NY Post. Brooklyn will soon surpass Chicago's population and brags about their reduction in crime. We need the "Broken Windows" approach.
I find it hard to believe that the academy is at fault. I am sure that there are minimum training standards. I am sure that the instructors are qualified. If you blame the people at the academy, then also, blame yourself.
What are you doing to improve the situation?
What are you doing to improve the training?
If you like to blame other people, then you are part of the problem.
Not a Cop
The videos were like the Three stooges, Mortal Combat and Grand a Theft Auto all in one.
You're right for this post, I hope that some of these hard-headed cops will listen, but we know that someone going to do something even more stupid, just give em time.....SMH
When this clause was written into every FOP contract...
Current FOP Contract: "Section 6.4—Photo Dissemination
No photo of an Officer under investigation shall be made available to the media prior to a conviction for a criminal offense or prior to a decision by the Police Board, except where required by law."
...no one had any idea that the mayor and IPRA would eventually become the police bashing whores of the media and give them these tantalizing video clips at every opportunity.
Now if Deano isn't too busy picking the option package in his next government job he might demand that if the city does release videos of Officers who may become involved in criminal proceedings that their faces be blurred or pixilated to protect their lives and their rights.
Just read an article in the NY Post. Brooklyn will soon surpass Chicago's population and brags about their reduction in crime. We need the "Broken Windows" approach.
--
there's one thing you've got to understand about NYC. It is 3x the population, but 1.5x (I believe) the size.
So ... it's way easier to patrol, man-power wise.
I really don't believe these officers where properly field trained.
---
shit, I've been on for 20+ and I haven't been properly "field trained." No one has.
Anonymous said...
I have to ask the old timers in 003 and 004
Have you guys talked closed door in roll call to these younger cops?
Surely there has to be one crusty vet that can try to talk and explain what "Fetal" means
8/10/2016 08:49:00 AM
New police are like the young bangers in the street, when you try and talk to them they say " You had your time" and walk away!
8/10/2016 05:17:00 PM
When they eff up and need your guidance, or money, be sure and throw similar words and actions right back on them!
Heh...
Remember some years back when the local
rags were spilling so much ink about how
CPD has too much white hair and bad attitude?
"Those Coppers are too old and too expensive
and they don't bring a sense of urgency to
Serving and Protecting the public."
Now these hard-head, hard chargers are giving
everybody all the urgency they can handle...
Just an observation based on some years
behind the wheel of a blue & white...
I have to ask the old timers in 003 and 004
Have you guys talked closed door in roll call to these younger cops?
Surely there has to be one crusty vet that can try to talk and explain what "Fetal" means
Now whose going to be the one that talks to the underdeveloped tact guys in 003 and 004?
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Just read an article in the NY Post. Brooklyn will soon surpass Chicago's population and brags about their reduction in crime. We need the "Broken Windows" approach.
8/10/2016 11:59:00 PM
We need the broken windows approach, coupled with the responsible parenting approach. THAT's a huge, missing. component of this disaster.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
When the shit hits the fan, all the training in the world goes out the window.
8/10/2016 11:18:00 AM
Says the person who obviously doesnt train or take training seriously. It has been proven thousands of times that people revert to acting under stress to how they were trained. Maybe stop posting nonsense and do some research and learn something.
When I came on 30 years ago, FTO's were for the most part the best and had at least 8 to 10 years on the job. They cared about training the PPO's correctly, including how to CYA. I blame the union and department for going to straight watches. It was rough on the 1st watch for 28 days, but the watches had a mix of PO's always. The old timers, the guys with 8-12 years and the new guys. But the way it was, if you didn't know what to do, there was always someone who knew and helped you out. You learned everything that you had to know to do this job. There was always somebody who gave you the advice you needed to know. After we went to straight watches, the mix of coppers with different lengths of seniority dwindled. Very soon after you had PPO's being trained by PO's who never learned half the things they needed to know. It just became worse over the years. How many cops I saw who would have a great arrest and not have a clue what paper to do or what charges to place. So I truly believe that started to drive this department into the wreck it is today. You don't have to agree, but how does anybody learn what they need on this job if those training them are just as clueless.
Trump will put a stop to a lot of this Bullshit, come Election Day.
"Anonymous said...
The lack of training is akin to the Ford Pinto controversy.
It is cheaper to pay off lawsuits brought upon due to a lack of training than to pay the cost to train the entire department.
Therefore, it is up to the individual officer to stay updated on the General Orders, State Law, and Supreme Court Decisions.
8/10/2016 05:56:00 PM"
On 17 March 2002, Area 4 Deputy Chief Charles Williams stated Chicago Police Department Policy when he said, "It is NOT practical to train individual officers to respond to a terrorist attack." Nothing in that regard has changed.
Anonymous said...
Trump will put a stop to a lot of this Bullshit, come Election Day.
8/11/2016 05:29:00 PM
IF we get out and vote and don't let those peace protestors who tore up UIC and other places steal the election.
Stop raggin' on the younger coppers. Whether you like them or not they're gonna back you up. Don't let the media pit us against each other. Besides, not to say they're the majority or not, I've met many younger coppers who do want to learn and actually seem to listen...as far as training goes however...that's out of our hands and falls on the academy and those in charge of the academy and training.
The academy should be for officers and supervisors with 20 plus years only
Trump will put a stop to a lot of this Bullshit, come Election Day.
Keep drinking that Kool-aide, Francis! Nothing will change.
It also appears that Trump's campaign is taking that old familiar GOP nosedive, and it would seem that there is no
safety net in place to catch Trump, due mainly to his mouth. Like it or not, Clinton WILL be our next President come
November.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
The academy should be for officers and supervisors with 20 plus years only
8/12/2016 04:56:00 AM
Time on the job does not necessarily mean you have more experience. You could have sat in a hole for 20 years and not learned anything. I know cops with 20 years who don't' know how to write a case report or make an arrest.
Post a Comment
<< Home