Thursday, September 22, 2016

Increasing Liability

  • Rising crime Downtown could mean more off-duty police officers moonlighting in uniform.

    Some off-duty police officers would be allowed to wear their CPD uniforms while working private security through a new ordinance introduced last week by Ald. Brian Hopkins (2nd).

    While many Chicago police officers work security and other second jobs, allowing them to do so in uniform would help prevent future violence as crime rises across the city, Hopkins said.
So....insurance? Liability? Indemnification? IOD? Lots of questions. Not to mention the pay scale and burnout rate.

Labels:

57 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sign me up. If the rich wanna pay I'll could use the money.

9/22/2016 12:09:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Should these officer who will be pimped out by the City be represented by FOP when they are then fired for putting hands on drunks because the nitwit bar manager orders him to launch the drunks on video?

Sounds like another niche in the Cities armor.

less trained police make officers worth more an hour!
Is time and a half really the best you think you are worth on the open market?

Hard to believe with so many college graduates the best they can come up with is VRI or following a bus for eight hours.
Wouldn't bullshit late arrest come out to be the same thing and still have days off?

Oh well what do I know, the house is paid off and the kids college was paid ahead of time with college Illinois.

9/22/2016 12:21:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't do it. Not worth it. With wage and benefits we make about $100 per hour. Don't whore yourself your for the $25 per hour to put the uniform on for a side job.

9/22/2016 12:22:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Isn't it enough that the city, ccsao, feds, #blm,
ipra and the public want to see Policemen lynched
from a tree in front of their burning homes if an
emergency action under "Color of Law" goes sideways
while on company time? Let alone some uniformed
side gig for $12 to $15 an hour?

The aldermope in question is just having a laugh
while denying he's taking a piss in your pockets
with this ordinance proposal.

This is too fucking coincidental to Rahm's impending
finely minced word-salad of a speech about how he's
finally going to more or less hire after lying
through his teeth for the last five years about
the department having enough officers on the street.

These m/fers are HOPING "only" 1000 officers retire
next year...

They should be scared out of their wits because a whole
LOT of '85 to '95 hires are saying "Fuck This! and
are running for the exits as fast as they can.

Friendly sources close to the action at HQ
are saying somewhere in the neighborhood of
1200 to 1500 just might end up popping smoke
to get the fuck out.

Funny shit...
What if someone called for The Police only to hear
an echo?

"How DARE you Cops try to save yourselves from US!"

9/22/2016 12:59:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All you will do is open yourself to more liability and danger as the AlderCreatures claim there are more cops in their hood. Ald. Sticky Buns could finally get the officers that Rahmulus promised him. This isn't working for the park district or CPS. It's working the street without a dept.radio!

9/22/2016 01:13:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I foresee nothing good coming from this ordinance and working security in uniform. Stay Fetal.

9/22/2016 01:31:00 AM  
Anonymous IN THE KNOW said...

Like so many other jobs in other industries, bring in H-1B workers. (basically cheap foreign workers)

Instead of paying $120,000+ (salary/benefits) for one cop, you can get 3-4 "workers" from some other country. Plus, the beauty of this requires to house these people. What better places than all the overbuilt and undersold condo buildings that were built in Chicago that they could never fill?

Sounds too radical? Can never happen?

That is EXACTLY what happened in many companies that hired foreign labor and displaced a LOT of US citizens into cheaper jobs with LESS pay and benefits over the last decade. (those displaced people were NOT HS grads - most were well-paid, degreed and advanced degreed people with special certifications in areas like IT, engineering, and other disciplines)

Look at many companies' IT departments. ALL foreign labor with guys sleeping 8 to a two-bedroom apartment in Presidential Towers. They share expenses and send half the money home and do NOTHING as to adding to the local economy.

The latest addition to that model is McDonalds - coming in from Oak Brook to put their HQ around the old Harpo Studio site.

Now, they will be super-close to take advantage of the cheaper labor all being housed in downtown Chicago.

As to local "taxpayers" who used to work there? They are all getting"packages" from McDonalds that may last a year or two, and then they have to find some job to pay the bills which will be a LOT less, than what they were making at McDonalds.

That is the "business model" many companies have adopted and that is partially the reason the economy is so stagnant - ESPECIALLY in Illinois.

So maybe the City will wise up and make an H-1B District out of downtown and you will see cops from India, China, Singapore, Russia, Poland and other countries.

Can't happen?? Next time you're in Home Depot or Lowe's ask the 55-year old clerk/ worker where they "originally" worked at. None of them have put in 25-30 years in retail - they just got there from a totally different (and better-paying) industry.

Why do you think Trump has so much unwavering support? Many people lost good jobs.

Can't happen to you? Guess again.





9/22/2016 02:02:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As long as they don't hire big S.G. they will be ok.

9/22/2016 02:46:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is entirely stupid... Hey hair gels, risk your lively hood for a part time bullshit.. Go ahead

9/22/2016 05:12:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A lot of coppers and retired coppers are working part-time jobs, without specific clarification as to liability and indemnification. As the holiday season approaches, many people will be hiring off-duty cops and retired cops, but major liability questions are not being asked, or answered. I have personally become aware of a government employer who is hiring coppers and retired coppers, in substantial numbers without addressing this issue.If you are working one of these jobs, questions as to who will cover you if things go badly should be answered at the time you are hired. Case in point, HR 218 was intended to protect YOU, not to provide an employer with an armed employee. Insurance policies for HR 218 will not cover you if you use your firearm while in the course of your employment as an armed employee. Read the fine print, before you lose your ass in a civil litigation. And then there is the issue of "Training"; do any of these jobs provide training? So what will be your excuse, when you have to restrain the Honor Student, and he sustains injury or emotional trauma? The days of hiring a cop or retired cop for his or her gun, without providing training or liability coverage is a blast from the past, like a mullet haircut. There are way too many hungry lawyers waiting to feed on our mistakes. Be careful, and Stay Fetal, Stay Fetal, Fu%k Rahm's Chicago/Wilmette Values! Baby"G"

9/22/2016 05:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Like the stories about guys putting blow-up dummies in the passenger seat...our massive societal problems are not going to be solved like this. People demanding that law enforcement and the criminal justice system be dismantled, and the "crime/punishment paradigm" be eliminated -- who then demand more police service when THEY get robbed.

9/22/2016 05:54:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank God I married up. Found me a smart woman with a very good job, makes more then I do for sure. I'm so fortunate I don't need to worry about O.T. very much or getting a side job, I'd me one miserable prick for sure. I'm not so sure about the old lady's eye sight though.

9/22/2016 06:00:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You have to be a fool to wear the uniform and not get indemnified and scale pay! Officers do not sell yourself short!

9/22/2016 06:14:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sounds like an off duty union will be needed.

9/22/2016 06:16:00 AM  
Blogger Mr. SouthSide said...

Many will jump at the chance.

9/22/2016 06:33:00 AM  
Blogger sean donnellan said...

Are body cameras required by off duty officers working in uniform providing security?

9/22/2016 07:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Never work extra in uniform for non city employer. The city needs to hire more police. Live within your means.

9/22/2016 07:33:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This department has become like the US post office. They should pass a law that requires all Police officers to wear their uniforms, while in public places, all day, every day and through their retirement. Think of it endless Police presence to quell the senseless violence in the ghetto communities.

9/22/2016 07:54:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

True scc so much liability will the odpo be prosecuted for nonsense? Is the pay rate at least the same as our regular hourly wage? How much kick back do the alderman get?

9/22/2016 08:04:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If I'm going to work for 25-30 dollars an hour I would rather work in street clothes. Why wear the monkey suit and be identified as a Chicago Police Officer. I can see were this is going, if your work a part-time job, their going to require you to wear the uniform. I say leave the rules the same.

9/22/2016 08:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am a retired Sergeant and work part time for different things, I did have to get a PERC card, and get printed, submit a training waiver, a copy of my IRROC CARD to obtain a Tan CARD, which is a firearms control card all required by the State. I do high l in stuff not standing by a door check g bags at Wal Mart etc. There are plenty of jobs out there where you are not exposed to crap. I do it at my leisure and don't wear any type of uniform just suits and tie. Please don't work for peanuts. I tell the clients that you are paying me for my credentials and experiemce, not my gun. PS, every cop should have a liability insurance policy even if you are a time and not retired. It's about $300 per year. Protection t yourselves. THE CITY OR POLICE DEPARTMENT CARES NOTHING ABOUT RETIREES, TRUST ME. YOU ARE NOTHING AFTER YOU LEAVE.

9/22/2016 08:28:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

9/22/2016 05:45:00 AM

HR218 doesn't mean anything for side jobs. It's a bill that allows active officers to fart from state to state. It also allows geriatrics that can barely see straight to carry also. If your working security off duty or while retired you should technically have your blue and tan cards. Also if someone is committing a crime, we are the police 24 hours a day per our general orders, so you are taking police action. If you're so scared of working off duty go back to your basement

9/22/2016 08:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

On-Duty or Special Employment only!

9/22/2016 08:42:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Does a program like this exist elsewhere? In the early 1980's Phoenix had a setup where businesses hired off-duty uniform officers to work security . No idea if still around and that was a long time ago. A lot can change.

9/22/2016 09:01:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you are gonna do it, check with the FOP, they have a off duty insurance program.
You would be nuts to think the city would do anything for you.


The Moonlighting Liability Insurance Program protects individual peace officers who perform extra duty jobs. In addition to protecting the officer, coverage is extended to the non-governmental entity that has contracted the officer’s services. By offering protection to the extra duty employer you have a distinct marketing advantage over other programs, which may not extend coverage to the hiring entity.

Who Needs this Coverage?
Any peace officer who provides law enforcement services for non-governmental entities. Coverage is subject to approval from your primary governmental employer.

The Moonlighting Liability Program is not a plan offered or covered by FOP Legal Defense Plan, Inc. The Moonlighting Program is offered and insured by an outside independent insurance company and is endorsed by The Grand Lodge FOP.

9/22/2016 09:05:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If all your charing is 30 - 40 an hour for a side job your fooked. Should have been a trades person, we charge 60-75, and without all the hassle of dealing with the public at large. Know your worth.

9/22/2016 09:18:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Soo.... the city benefits from having you coppers out and visible, and in a position to deter/prevent crime, but the city doesn't pay anything for it?

That's an awesome scheme. Next let's cut the work week/pay/benefits to 15 hours, and you can make up the difference doing side work someone else pays for -- in uniform, of course, with arrest powers. Oh, and take a radio with you, just in case, so we don't have to staff the 911 call center.

9/22/2016 09:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think that might conflict with a CALEA standard that regulates using any agency equipment or uniforms, or might require police authority during "off duty" secondary employment.

9/22/2016 09:33:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'll stick to wearing plain clothes at my side job. No need to be a target anymore
Then we are.

9/22/2016 09:37:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not to forget what boss will run it and what clout would you need to get hired, same shit different day.

9/22/2016 09:52:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This shit wont fly!

9/22/2016 10:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lots of Western cities do this, but it all goes through their police departments.......overtime pay, indemnified by the city, total official police job, even though it's an off-duty gig.....company contacts the Police Department, requests police services at such and such a time, whether or not a police car is also needed.....don't know how the money part works, if it goes to the city at a higher rate....say a copper at time and a half gets $60 per hour, maybe the city/police department charges the company $90 per hour......

Las Vegas and Phoenix both offer this.......maybe our FOP can find out......

That said, not too smart to be taking part-timers in this climate without full protection.

9/22/2016 10:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Playing police Off Duty is never a good thing.
Popping a few hundred for a Universal policy and still wind up in court or jail is not any relief either. The Company is probably an LLC, it protects their obligation (they can fold w/o some liability), they will not indemnify the independent contractor. You are on your own, you pay your Self Emp tax at 15%, Get a 1099, file a IRS Schedule SE, nothing more.
Wearing the clown suit, if allowed, also is a Dept liability and the extent of your protection is already weak. Guaranteed OT for court & min. 3hrs...not so fast Sparky, are you as a security guard/monitor paid by an outside non city employer?
If they pay the prevailing overtime wage, it's hard to pass up - then, what does the Company make on your labor?

The Bonus:
- every Beat guy loves the security guard holding the offender on Saturday at 0200 hrs, right?

9/22/2016 11:46:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Retired employees are no longer covered by their former employer's liability insurance. One would hope their new employers have decent coverage in case something happens. Liability insurance is as much about having someone to pay for the lawyers as it is to pay any damages that might get awarded.

Coppers working on the side are in a unique position. Cops are more or less cops regardless of whether they are on the city's clock or not so the city might be forced to defend them in the event of an incident. It is almost certain the city would be sued so the city would have to defend itself. I am surprised the FOP has not addressed this in some way. I am also moderately surprised the city allows off duty cops to rent themselves out in uniform without the city having some say in it. Most places do not allow this.

NAC

9/22/2016 11:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Go with the LAPD or NYPD model for off duty work.....all is coordinated and indemnified with the city taking a cut for admin costs

9/22/2016 11:49:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When will CPD learn to live on an already adequate salary without overtime? If you're broke, you doing something wrong. I don't care if your kids are in a catholic school. You wife should be working if that's true.
Wifey working means double the salary. If you are already doing that and your broke, you have made some terrible financial decisions.(house, credit cards, new cars) If you are paying lots of alimony, I don't feel sorry for you. I feel sorry for the kids that have parents that cant work it out. Should have thought about that before you brought kids into this world.

I worked some part time gigs back in my days, but I soon realized that the price was too high. Btw...No mortgage, no credit card balances here...I have made sound financial decisions for years now, and thank God for that wisdom.

See a credit counselor if you need to...You can thank me later.

9/22/2016 11:55:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Beware. They'll b trying to do it on the cheap and won't factor in things like indemnification, insurance etc.

9/22/2016 12:34:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Thank God I married up. Found me a smart woman with a very good job, makes more then I do for sure. I'm so fortunate I don't need to worry about O.T. very much or getting a side job, I'd me one miserable prick for sure. I'm not so sure about the old lady's eye sight though.

9/22/2016 06:00:00 AM

Tell her to remove the beer goggles and see the real you....goof ball

9/22/2016 02:06:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Remember this. Every day you spend with family and friends and not working in some form of police capacity, is one more day you don't have to worry about being imprisioned, fired or sued.

9/22/2016 03:02:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just work the job and if something happens who cares. Just quit. Take all their money then if you are needed just say no and go home and don't come back.

9/22/2016 03:15:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Once the coppers present the form to the business for indemnification of the officer the business will be looking for some cheap rent a guard service instead.

9/22/2016 03:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't be a whore. Live within your means.

9/22/2016 03:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How's this for liability?

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/congressional-black-caucus-wants-law-enforcement-crackdown/article/2602608

Keep working hard in ghettoville nonsense suffer at your own and your families peril!

9/22/2016 04:11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

IN THE KNOW said...

"Like so many other jobs in other industries, bring in H-1B workers. (basically cheap foreign workers)

"Instead of paying $120,000+ (salary/benefits) for one cop, you can get 3-4 "workers" from some other country. Plus, the beauty of this requires to house these people. What better places than all the overbuilt and undersold condo buildings that were built in Chicago that they could never fill?

"Look at many companies' IT departments. ALL foreign labor with guys sleeping 8 to a two-bedroom apartment in Presidential Towers. They share expenses and send half the money home and do NOTHING as to adding to the local economy."

9/22/2016 02:02:00 AM

EXCELLENT post. You can't see what's going on up in those buildings just by looking up from the street...

Double whammy here -- move more and more of the remaining industrial production south, and move the key-tappers north. Talk about dollar flow outwards -- add up all the "Envio Dineros A Mexico" places. "Mexico’s central bank released data indicating Mexicans abroad sent home $23.6 billion in 2014, almost all of it from the United States..." and that's just one group.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/422744/donald-trump-remittance-plan-evaluation

9/22/2016 06:16:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Love the strokes who feel they have the knowledge to tell other people how to go about their lives and how to manage their finances. A big Fuck You to 11:55 am especially. There are many different situations you couldn't possibly comprehend to work for extra money. There are also many who just want to. So fuck off and go see your own credit counselor.

9/22/2016 06:34:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm listening to to Mayor Rahm Emanuel Chicago, it's a great speach, yes, the violence in Chicago is through the roof. He is speaking about the gang bangers, WHY can't we pass a Law where "gangs" are ILLEGAL, I can't believe this has not happened in the past years, gangs are still legal, that is unbelievable to me.i moved out of Chicago in 1988, we were unable to sit in our backyard because of shootings in our gangway! Also ONLY putting the gun shops responsible, guns can be purchased anywhere, anytime,by anyone, also I hope the Police force are still being seen by psychological expert's, if I was a Police Officer, I would be afraid out there, it's that bad! Blue lives matter, Black lives matter, ALL lives matter!! PLEASE MAKE GANGS ILLEGAL!!!! WE NEED HELP


9/22/2016 06:47:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Politicians never mention the real problem , children without a Father .
Looks like they don ' t want to really help , they lie about the cause of murders , drugs Drop out rate .
Claims cps has the best improvement in the Nation for improvement in reading and math .
I do not believe it .

9/22/2016 06:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Already done at Navy Pier

9/22/2016 08:19:00 PM  
Blogger john said...

Phoenix, Scottsdale and other cities in the valley offer this but it is all run through the departments. They are considered " on " duty and the business pays the city at the prevailing rate which includes health insurance and in some instances the pension. Almost all of the festivals, runs, spring training and the like are run this way.



old retired guy

9/22/2016 10:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anyone entertaining this idea needs to rethink it seriously. You do not have the little protections you do have as when working on duty for the city. Yet you will be represented as on duty not off because you will have your uniform on. Think about all the hand waivers once they see that blue shirt on. For 20 something bucks an hour on your RDO? No thank you. Fuck that. Don't be a fool. If these neighborhoods need more police service they need to stand up and march downtown and demand that the little fucker appropriate and distribute police service more evenly and not only to appease a certain demographic no matter what your current city crime image looks like. That's their political doing not yours. So the tax payers who already pay the bulk for service will have to pay out pocket privately for the police protection they should already be getting?

Lol. Don't be scabs guys. Think about it.

9/22/2016 10:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Once the coppers present the form to the business for indemnification of the officer the business will be looking for some cheap rent a guard service instead
========

Security guard companies have to pay for liability insurance. It really isn't all that expensive. Just a cost of doing business. I can't imagine any legitimate employer does not have liability insurance. They would be in the same mess as the employee if something bad happened.

NAC

9/22/2016 10:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Love your blog !

In our county we have what is called USE (uniformed Secondary Employment). The employer must be approved by the department - show a certificate of insurance and follow the SOP as published. They are issued a 1-year permit and must renew every year before it expires. PO has to be off probation and approved for USE by the precinct commander. USE uses either their own issued radio or borrows one from the closest precinct (must log-on). No out-of-jurisdiction USE is allowed. The current rate is around $35/hour depending. Works well for us - most use it for Christmas or vacation money.

USE program has advantages for the employer, the county and the public. Think this over ... 12 men on a shift pushing production or clearing calls PLUS 5 or 6 guys doing USE -in uniform- in the mall or at the WALMART makes 17 to 18 men available if all hell should break loose.

Of course, there is always the open door for corruption and abuse as with any program.

9/22/2016 11:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...




CCSPD has take home cars and USED to allow off-duty use of CCSPD vehicles on Department approved off duty traffic details etc.
The details indemnified CCSPD officers with officers taking this opportunity with due responsibility.

Wearing of the entire uniform was also allowed...

What a privilege this was in having this opportunity to make extra money off duty-use of the county car instead of a personal vehicle, allowed use of the uniform and so on...

Until one brilliant P.O. working a traffic detail, has a traffic accident occur right where this P.O. is directing this same traffic!
This P.O. gets clipped by one of the involved vehicles.
Minor injury but none the less-a payday in this officers eyes...

He files a lawsuit against the Department and receives a payout in fact and then buys himself a new pickup truck!

In the meantime, use of the CCSPD vehicles for all officers, is rescinded because of this.

Also no more parts of the uniform can be worn now-just civilian dress like cargo pants, shirts without Department patches and the reflective POLICE safety vest.

9/23/2016 12:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Double whammy here -- move more and more of the remaining industrial production south, and move the key-tappers north. Talk about dollar flow outwards -- add up all the "Envio Dineros A Mexico" places. "Mexico’s central bank released data indicating Mexicans abroad sent home $23.6 billion in 2014, almost all of it from the United States..." and that's just one group."

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/422744/donald-trump-remittance-plan-evaluation

9/22/2016 06:16:00 PM

Last time I saw figures, an illegal alien staying here from age 18 to age 44 produces a negative impact, a cost of -$55,000 as far as taxes and so forth paid vs. services and "programs" received, and that leaves out the remittance flow. One gets shot and ends up in the Rehab Institute, maybe -$550,000, huh?

But, as you say, the employers of green cards and illegals make out great -- and their profits often flow into offshore shelters...

9/23/2016 05:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anyone entertaining this idea needs to rethink it seriously. You do not have the little protections you do have as when working on duty for the city. Yet you will be represented as on duty not off because you will have your uniform on. Think about all the hand waivers once they see that blue shirt on. For 20 something bucks an hour on your RDO? No thank you. Fuck that. Don't be a fool. If these neighborhoods need more police service they need to stand up and march downtown and demand that the little fucker appropriate and distribute police service more evenly and not only to appease a certain demographic no matter what your current city crime image looks like. That's their political doing not yours. So the tax payers who already pay the bulk for service will have to pay out pocket privately for the police protection they should already be getting?

Lol. Don't be scabs guys. Think about it.

9/22/2016 10:29:00 PM
Your 100% correct, your on your own think FOP will get you the free lawyer for off-duty in uniform work? i talked to them the girl said "off-duty work is off-duty you need your own representation" and that can be very expensive! The thugs and scum will seek you out off-duty looking at owning your home after you take an action against them! Isn't there plenty of extra opportunities that pay the prevailing wage, cta-vri-airports (Thats inside overtime), etc...Speaking about the airports few years ago fop got involved and we were allowed to work airport special what happened why uis that still not citywide but inside only?

9/23/2016 07:49:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

can't any of you overtime addicts find something OTHER then police work. Get a life, learn something new. Who in their right mind wants to wear a uniform when you don't have to and talk about opening yourself up to legal issues.

9/23/2016 06:07:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your a fuckin fool if u show up to a part time gig in cpd uniform. Know it all angelo and the union need to step in on this to forbid it regardless of ordinance. Option b- operate like joliet Nd run all side gigs through union board at union scale.

9/28/2016 11:41:00 PM  

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