Trick Bag
- A former West Virginia police officer is suing the city where he was employed, claiming that he was fired for not shooting a 21-year-old suicidal black man.
When Officer Stephen Mader saw the gun in RJ Williams’ hand on May 6, 2016, he raised his duty weapon in defense. But then Williams said something that gave Mader a new understanding of what was going on.
“Just shoot me,” he remembered the visibly distraught Williams saying.
Mader, an Afghanistan war veteran, deduced that Williams was attempting suicide by cop, a suicide method in which a person engages in actual or apparent danger to others with the desire to be killed or injured by law enforcement.
The cop used his training and personal war experiences to deduce that the subject's actions were a desperate cry for help. So he did what he thought best - negotiated...or if you like, "de-escalated." So he's a hero, right? A shining beacon of police work held up as an example to all, right?
Well, no. He's fired.
Well, no. He's fired.
- The two argued back and forth — Williams asking to be shot, Mader asking that he put down the gun.
But when another cruiser approached, things escalated. Williams began waving the gun around toward Mader and the other officers, who immediately fired.
“Within seconds, shots were fired and the last shot fatally wounded Mr. Williams to the head,” Mader claimed.
And the kicker of it all?
- When they inspected Williams’ pistol, they found that it wasn’t loaded.
So now the whole thing is in court. The cop who fired the fatal shot wasn't dismissed but is alleged to have sent a number of threatening messages to the fired cop about cowardice. Past incidents of "failure to report" are being dredged up to sustain a case for firing the non-shooter (sound familiar?) and the ACLU of all people is involved with this argument:
- Under the law, an officer is only allowed to use deadly force when he or she perceives a threat.
“Once he made the decision Williams was not a threat, the U.S. Constitution says he’s not allowed to shoot,” the ACLU of West Virginia executive director, Joseph Cohen, told HuffPost. “Not only was his belief reasonable, it was objectively correct. The gun was unloaded.”
So the ACLU is saying that one officer's decision (or PERCEPTION) is valid, while the other officer, arriving on scene and being threatened with the same gun, well, his PERCEPTION is invalid because the gun ended up being unloaded. Remember, these are the people who just helped write gut the street stop order, the ISR disaster and the Non-Use of force order, judging an incident that took seconds to unfold.
Discuss. We've made no judgements and provided the link so you can read it. To us, it seems like yet another set of rules that allow the progressives to harshly judge a dynamic situation with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, simply to screw coppers attempting to do a difficult job.
Discuss. We've made no judgements and provided the link so you can read it. To us, it seems like yet another set of rules that allow the progressives to harshly judge a dynamic situation with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, simply to screw coppers attempting to do a difficult job.
Labels: general, out-of-state
posted by SCC at 12:05 AM
80 Comments:
SCC,
More SWAT drama. FOIA documents had been requested for the last SWAT testing process 2014 and now 2017. Guess certain evaluators of SWAT were playing games with the grading for their buddies. Videos of testing scenarios suddenly disappeared or were "lost."
Same thing happened in this last testing process. Certain SWAT evaluators failed to report firearms violations and shooting no shoots. Sgt C.Rhein and Sgt M. Little who were in charge also played favorites for certain candidates with military backgrounds that they wanted on the team.
Some of the applicants that didn't make it from both selections began to compare notes. Couple of the guys that also made it didn't think it was fair because their friends got screwed. SWAT evaluators have not been documenting who was shooting hostages and look the other way.
Both officers acted correctly given the circumstances. It's entirely possible the first officer would have talked the guy down without the second one showing up. It's also possible that the guy would have shot the first officer when he was waving his gun around, so the second officer was correct in using deadly force.
I hope the first officer is able to work in law enforcement again.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
My take is all officers were justified. If the fired officer wanted to stick his neck out a little further before other officers arrived, that is his choice as long as no danger is to anyone else. The shooting officers are justified because obvious reasons. I have children and intend on remaining their father to raise them.
Can we have their dept. policy?
Instinctively, two possible thoughts come to my mind:
1) The officer that pulled the trigger is suffering from some post shooting guilt and PTSD, causing him to lash out wrongly at the other officer.
2) The officer that didn't pull the trigger has a past history that indicates he has previously shown less then heroic judgment. He could have legitimatly been scared and came up with this excuse afterwords.
Regardless, not much to discuss as far as the ACLU is concerned. They shouldn't be getting involved in every police shooting. I wouldn't listen to a bunch of dorks that probably have never even been in a fist fight, much less had to pull the trigger in a life threatening scenario.
Jason Van Dyke shot. It was ruled justified by our present black Sup. Why were the other officers who took no police action not just reprimanded. That camera angle did not tell the whole story. And that camera angle is coming to a district near you........................
Just read the article. So the ACLU seems to only care that the mental that got killed was black. Who cares what color he is? Losers.
The firing of the officer sounds shady though. He will probably get his job bsck. My guess is he was unpopular behind the scenes among his fellow officers before this incident. The hillbilly department also released a statement claiming he was also fired for swearing at an arrestees spouse. Lol, yeah okay guys. If you say so.
Are they going to cancel the 4th of July too?
They probably fired him because he sets the bar pretty high for other officers that have to deal with suicidal nutjobs in the future. In the ACLU fantasy world, every police officer should be ex-military, trained at Quantico, have Yale college degrees in psychology, and African-American studies, and all be registered Democrats.
This is a real sad situation for all involved. The copper should not of been terminated. He was no coward. The other copper' did see a direct threat. No winner' and the officer' should not off labeled the non shooter a coward.
Again, sad for the all.
The officer will get his job back, and it will be hostile work place for him. Hope the good Lord sustains this guys what he is going through.
Seen suicide by the police of poor souls with mental anguish. The officer' were grief stricken. 99.00000 % of L.E really hold off to use deadly force in most situations. This job we took upon ourselves, current is not for the weak hearted. We all knows how it changes us with every year on the street. Copper' that do not have a real sense of humor are prone to crack mentally and health wise. The police of this nation do have a special place in Heaven. Now, more then ever in this climate of hate the police.
I have reviewed the situation and determined that taking this job was a huge mistake.
One of those weird cases where both officers could be right. Can't really say unless you were there. Shame on the asshole for putting the two coppers through that bullshit. He couldn't even do his own dirty work.
A tragic scenario for all parties concerned. What i fear with the new CPD order is the provision that compels an officer to stop and then subsequently report another officer who the first officer believed was using excessive force. The West Virginia case could create a "perfect storm" if it transpired in Chicago. And you're correct SCC - this is the ACLU's unstated goal, to hamstring and second guess the working police. In the past, i've worked with other officers who have taken punches without reacting only to then admonish other intervening officers for stepping in and arresting the offender. How will future incidents be "de-escalated" when you now have the additional burden of "watching your own back." You may want to mount a body cam on your back which you can monitor out of one eye!
Let's see how far the new FOP leaders fight the new order - especially when contract negotiations begin. In unity there is strength!
Retired .38 spl +P
Cops are putting their own and the public' s safety at risk in order to comply with this politically correct, imaginary belief that a man with a gun isn't a threat. Although many who read this blog scoff at the idiocy of the left wing position that a man with a gun is NOT a threat, many cops are choosing to believe it. Are we to believe that his experience in the military has given him the power to see whether a weapon is loaded or not? He simply believes what the Obama DOJ has said: a man with a gun is not threat, and if he is black and the policeman is white, the policeman's inherent racism is the reason he will shoot. In plain English, it is irrational to think a man with a gun is a threat unless he is actively shooting at you. Cops have been shamed and intimidated by media, academics, and politicians into believing the opposite of what they know is true. If that gun was loaded, he and other cops and civilians could've been killed because he didn't act. The fact that the gun was empty has no bearing on anything. If we have a coin toss and I pick heads and win, did I anticipate through perception the rotation of the coin and thus make an objectively correct determination that the coin would land on heads? Fuck no, you idiot! I GUESSED. Just like this dumbass cop, who should apply for a job with BLM or the ACLU.
I'm siding with the fired copper. If he didn't think he was in jeopardy and he knew what the guy was doing, what's the problem with trying to negotiate? This case is a text book example of damned if you do and damned if you don't. Shoot the guy, you're an evil, racist copper. Don't shoot the guy, you are an evil coward copper who doesn't know what they are doing. The second copper escalated everything and forced the lethal response. Great backup...
The ACLU needs to just go away. No one knew the gun was unloaded until afterward. How can you know that? So now police are required to be psychic? Give me a break.
Any way you look at it, the ACLU still sucks dick!
Famed if you do, damned if you don't.
Got a heavy bat belt filled with goodies. Got various orders to memorize regarding the guse of deadly force. Don't forget the "Shoot/Don't shoot" videos. Now this guy had the ACLU and his Department riding on his shoulders. That's a lot of weight to carry, it kind of leaves no space for the individual officer's ability to judge and decide his course of action.
Piss on the aclu.
Not from Illinois, not a cop.
All I can say is "wow" and shrug my shoulders. The cop has 1 second to decide, but will always be brow beaten by someone who either forgot they were a cop, or never was. Looks out the window all day and wants to please the media, it seems.
Good luck officer!
Another example of hypocrisy at it's finest. Cops are never allowed to use facts learned AFTER the incident to justify their actions, but those rules don't apply to the ACLU, bleeding hearts, or our jerk-off Mayor.
The gun was unloaded? How in the hell was the cop supposed to know that?
I can't wait to get out of this shithole city and retire. Just another example of why I'm not inclined to do anything but answer calls.
They don't want us doing aggressive police work anyway.
Anonymous said...
Are they going to cancel the 4th of July too?
5/20/2017 12:48:00 AM
Look at the fireworks bans (for ahem safety) to see it was already banned a long time ago. Cops ought think about that as they "enforce" such a ban, huh?
It's a sad situation all the way around.
Why couldn't he just show the gun out of nutso's hand? They do that all the time on TV!
It took more guts to NOT pull the trigger.
There was no wrong in that situation. The first cop acted in accordance with what he perceived was going on and the second cop did the same damn thing. The only "wrong" here was the idiot that put both cops in the position they were in.
I would have shot him and gone home to a good nights sleep. But I wouldn't want cop #1 for a partner. The next idiot may be pointing a gun a me and I'd want him to shoot, not wait for physic messages about the perp's intent.
At any rate there's no need or place for the ACLU in this situation.
J.J.
5/20/2017 12:35:00 AM said...
"Why were the other officers who took no police action not just reprimanded."
What do you define as "police action"? Is discharging your firearm the only thing you consider to be action? If so, remind me to never have you watching my six. If the first officer reasonably believes (remember that concept?) that the subject poses no immediate threat, and possibly detected some level of response to his efforts to have him self-disarm, then that is clearly "police action".
For Christ's sake, just standing and watching a barricaded subject is "police action". You are obviously happy for the trigger, and some day its gonna get you jammed up. And before you go with the "You can't just stand there" shit, let me tell you I am ALL for neutralizing any living soul if they need it, and I would never hesitate. The point is here, the second wave coming into this call should have at least realized there was something going on (call it de-escalation, negotiation, whatever) and not have bailed into blasting the guy. Assess the situation.
It's all "police action" there grasshopper...
Why have so many cops tossed out their firearms training about distance and shielding? Are most cops aware that an offender who you shoot can still shoot you when you have no cover? This is not the movies where 128 grain bullets send 200 lbs men flying through windows.
Not sure if you all caught this re Non Use of Force
"
Johnson was also joined by activist William Calloway, who helped force the release of the McDonald video. Onstage during questioning by the media, Calloway greeted Johnson with a handshake and "What's up, Supe?" He credited the protests over the McDonald shooting with creating change in the department.
"This is a big win for us, that our voices were heard," Calloway said.
But he added the caution that it won't be clear how effective the rules are until they are in place.
"
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-chicago-police-use-of-force-met-20170517-story.html
Wow, I never would have thought it but some whack-jobs seem to have actually Codified Catch-22 into their Laws and Regulations. And naturally its the Police who get caught up in their insanity. For those that don't know Catch-22 comes from Joesph Heller's classic WW-II novel of the same name. Catch-22 goes like this (from the novel): ......
Yossarian looked at him soberly and tried another approach. "Is Orr crazy?"
"He sure is," Doc Daneeka said.
"Can you ground him?"
"I sure can. But first he has to ask me to. That's part of the rule."
"Then why doesn't he ask you to?"
"Because he's crazy," Doc Daneeka said. "He has to be crazy to keep flying combat missions after all the close calls he's had. Sure, I can ground Orr. But first he has to ask me to."
"That's all he has to do to be grounded?"
"That's all. Let him ask me."
"And then you can ground him?" Yossarian asked.
"No. Then I can't ground him."
"You mean there's a catch?"
"Sure there's a catch," Doc Daneeka replied. "Catch-22. Anyone who wants to get out of combat duty isn't really crazy."
~~~~ snip ~~~~
Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle.
"That's some catch, that Catch-22," he observed.
"It's the best there is," Doc Daneeka agreed.
This 'Catch' is also called, 'Damned if you do and damned if you don't'. I like Catch-22. I've read this book about five times back when I was in High School and still have the book in my nightstand.
[Yossarian is the main character & was a B-17 Bombardier, Orr was a Pilot and Doc Daneeka the Flight Surgeon. 'Major Major', Milo Minderbinder, and 'Nately's Whore' is also in the book.
ps: The movie Catch-22 made back in the 70's SUCKED. To to the book justice it would have to be about 4 hours long
OT...So, another week goes by and the cheating scandal is no closer to being resolved or even exposed. I had hopes that the new FOP board might put the pressure on the media and city to follow up on this, perhaps I was wrong. Sad
Golly Gee Willyaker! Who ever thought law enforcement was so complicated......
Anonymous Anonymous said...
They probably fired him because he sets the bar pretty high for other officers that have to deal with suicidal nutjobs in the future. In the ACLU fantasy world, every police officer should be ex-military, trained at Quantico, have Yale college degrees in psychology, and African-American studies, and all be registered Democrats.
5/20/2017 12:51:00 AM
You forgot "and black." Whites are racist.
Cop number one bet his life on his instincts and it turns out it was a good call. I hope he finds work in my neck of the woods. I hope strength and compassion isn't confused with cowardice.
Not LEO so please help with my confusion.
So a man waving a gun is not a threat, but a man in a police uniform with a holstered gun is threatening?
A car driving towards the police is not a threat, but a car being chased by the police is a deadly weapon and a danger to society?
ACLU pick a side.
Another case of ACLU acting in the capacity of high exalted Universal Judiciary.
Did they not get the memo, read the news...obama-lynch-holder-clinton are no longer around.
The ACLU activists need to be put in their place, either they are community justice representatives or are we're just going to allow them to write, interpret and revise the community judicial code?
Whoever in West Virgina allowed this suit to even be brought up found themselves having stepped in a hot pile.
Mader has his rights under hostile working environment, that's all.
But argue "the threat" on a whole at the time, he loses.
Kuzma maybe deserves a written reprimand for the text message and he, once on the scene became the primary threatened officer.
So just what is Mader arguing, that it was only his job to predict Williams had an empty weapon?
That he had sole responsibility and authority for all the emotions of the entire incident?
Or that he just lost his job?
Then why ACLU - when any law office can handle?
Because ACLU NEVER LOSES and the black victim sweetens the cash payout.
So now will our liberal powder puff and blm city officials revise our ACLU) department GO to read:
"upon confronting an Armed Assailant and Community Member, kindly ask or reasonably request, in a language native to their culture, that they to shoot first, in order to determine if an actual or eminent threat of any bodily harm exists to the extent that such bodily harm may be treated without significant medical intervention. Any secondary and subsequent responding armed Department member(s) will request from the Primary On Scene Supervisor or Primary Officer if a Supervisor is not available, seek a position in numerical order to which they may intervene to make a subsequent determination that Use of Force may or may not be applied to the situation. "
Only the Williams estate and ACLU comes out with a big fat gov'mint check in the end.
Mader, find employment elsewhere, not because of your individual decision but choosing ACLU for your representative drag another sworn member through the stench of another ACLU racially charged allegation.
The cop used his training and personal war experiences to deduce that the subject's actions were a desperate cry for help.
If you do this verbally on your body camera YOU BETTER NOT SHOOT HIM AFTER! Your statements WILL be used against you.
As always there may be a little more to the story than reported. I read this after it happened and apparently the fired copper was on probation and was a shit sandwich. Speaking of shit sandwichs, why is the ACLU involved? They lack the integrity and intelligence to spout off about regarding this incident.
He was a PPO, an at will employee, they don't even neeed a valid reason to terminate you during your probationary period, REMEMBER??
Hmmmm...
The paradoxical pickle that so much of
Policing is, isn't it?
Both Officers were quite plausibly correct
in their actions. Right?
That is why it takes mature, well-seasoned,
reasonable adults of intellect and discernment
to sit in judgement of a Policeman''s actions.
Benefit of hindsight notwithstanding...
While understanding that force encounters
between the duly sworn selectmen of society
and those who by actions or circumstances,
have raised such an alarm to society that
possible forceful intervention by those
selectmen may be deemed necessary.
Heh...
So now society is reaping such that those
selectmen are exercising the abundance
of caution in the name of self preservation.
Responding after the fact to the human
wreckage and a new default setting of
defense of self first and only.
Amusingly, there are so many who are
very loudly put-off by this unintended but
not unexpected result.
"The Cops weren't supposed to adopt
such a hard shell, minimalist, self-protective stance
while we're beating on them to be even more self
sacrificing. Their self-protective stance concerns us."
If you cast The Police as your enemy, nature's
abhorrence of a vacuum dictates your forced
alliance with those who mean you nothing but
hurt, harm and danger.
"Somebody do something!"
>Crickets<
the ACLU blows communist dog balls ... why are they involved at all? This cop can simply get a lawyer to argue his case. ACLU go away, don't come back some other day!
Remember communist is NOT just a political party. That's why they were/are outlawed in this country. California is now trying to change their law to allow communists to serve in government. ACLU is communist. Period.
they tear down General Lee monuments in New Orleans due to tenuous "ties" to slavery.
Why don't they tear down the ACLU due to ADMITTED ties to communism?
The first officer who was on scene was the Officer in Charge! Same thing we have here. Contact officer/backup officer. Incident was a breakdown of their system. We don't live in a perfect world.
Yesterday in Denver - Deescalation Gone Wrong
http://www.denverpost.com/2017/05/20/denver-police-officer-shot/
Now the truth comes out from FOIA. I recall a young Italian Stallion SR who was in 011 at that time, and was telling everyone that he aced the test and was sure of an appointment to swat. Maybe lil Sal was indeed right. It was no wonder he was shocked and disappointed when he didn't get selected.
Sgt CR and ML you 2 should be ashamed of your actions.
A Former 011 District PO
Famed if you do, damned if you don't.
5/20/2017 05:25:00 AM
Damned if you do, flamed if you don't.
Why no one in the police community defied the ACLU when the politicians opened the door for them to enter into our world is a mystery to me and others. The way I see it, the FOP and another organizations or groups, have to resist and ignore any of their recommendations. In essence, they have to be driven out from making any decisions associated with police work period. The ACLU has no authority to dictate policies, recommendations, or guidelines pertaining to police work or policies. It would not be that hard to stop this invasion into policies by a bunch of no counts, people who have no clue about law enforcement tactics and implementing those tactics. ACLU'S involvement is an over-reach, and there's a new Sheriff in town. Obama is gone and now is a good time to start picking away at the damage they have inflicted on police departments. Finding out who funds the ACLU is important on many levels, it gives you the power to see in your charitable contributions if any of the money is going to them or an organization associated with the ACLU. Cutting out funds going to this subversive organization is just one of the tools we should be using in our resistance. There are contractual negotiation occurring and forcing the department in a contractual agreement to rid us of the paper work involving street stops is good place to start this process. Staying fetal is a good defense, but fighting the ACLU is an offense I think we would welcome and enjoy. We need to get back into the fight and identifying the enemy (ACLU) is a start in the right direction. Please be safe and my God give us the strength to defeat these enemies of our Republic.
Its time to boost training and more importantly our pay. Staring down the barrel of a gun , making a decision to shoot or not to shoot and then dealing with the aftermath which may dramatically alter you and your families lives for 100g is not enough compensation. police officers deserve 150g a yr. minimum for all the unknowns/risks they take on a daily basis.
What a fucked up job this has become. I was hired in 1978, and could never imagine this is how things would end up being. Wish active CPD members could have things the way we had them.
Washington D>C> Police:
Police consider follow-up after peaceful protesters beaten at Turkish ambassador's residence....the officers appeared "neutered and paralyzed" as they tried to restore order....this is what happens with the Use of Force Order......in highly volatile situations...the worst is yet to come........
Stay Safe and Fetal......
So the taxpayer suffers again, with the lawsuit or the litigation bill. We just cant win in this fucked up world.
Just my opinion if I was first on scene I would have shot him. The cemetery is full of heroes. A man waving a gun around, I'm not going to take my chances he may try to take me out with him.
More SWAT drama. FOIA documents had been requested for the last SWAT testing process 2014 and now 2017. Guess certain evaluators of SWAT were playing games with the grading for their buddies. Videos of testing scenarios suddenly disappeared or were "lost."
Welcome to testing with the CPD. Fuck the people with no clout that are better qualified than the clout babies. Look how many real swimmers are on the marine unit.
One less assclown in the world.
Just read the story at the link but what I wanted to to comment on was the next article at the bottom that story titled:
Police Chiefs Organization Formally Apologizes To People Of Color
The statement began, "There have been times when law enforcement officers, because of the laws enacted by federal, state, and local governments, have been the face of oppression"
http://all-that-is-interesting.com/police-racism-apology
The president of the International Association of Chiefs of Police, Terrence M. Cunningham, is the chief of a small town named Wellesley just outside of Boston, MA. I am somewhat shocked, although I probably shouldn't be, that a police chief would call laws enacted under the demographic process as oppression.
He also wrote, "For our part, the first step in this process is for law enforcement and the IACP to acknowledge and apologize for the actions of the past and the role that our profession has played in society’s historical mistreatment of communities of color".
I myself read the SCC blog partly out of curiosity, have friends in law enforcement and my father was a 34 year PO in Worcester, MA.
The town of Wellesley, which the residents of Mass call the place Swellesley because the median income for a family was $186,518 in 2016 and the black population is 2% of the town. A small 2 bedroom 1.5 bath home goes for the about $500,000. The media price of a home was $936,900 in 2016.
So a cop tells the cop who is a war veteran a coward? Go fuck yourself asshole.
In this case both officers were right. But the first officer is definitely not a coward. The responding officers did not have the information available and thus determined he was a threat to them and others so they squeezed the trigger.
Trust me, I was involved in two shootings. Plus two more in which I could have squeezed the trigger but did not. A deadly use of force situation is dynamic and quickly evolving. After everything is over and you review what happened you can't believe that everything happened so fast.
Sorry, I disagree. The guy had a gun and playing Carnac the magnificent is foolhardy at best and life threatening at worst. I would never work with someone that risks his and fellow copper's lives. To say nothing of the horrible precedent it sets.
There is always a back story. whats the real truth? ask one of the coppers that works there.
If you stand there watching while a nutjob- suicidal or not- "waves his gun around" at other officers, you need to be fired (unless you KNOW it's a replica\unloaded in which case you can just walk up and grab it, can't you!)
You may be a great human being. You're not a cop.
O.T.
Is this a quota? or a work requirement? Discuss.
1. Issuance of five parking citations in 30 days;
2. Issuance of five moving citations in 30 days;
3. Three physical arrests within 30 days;
4. Two curfew and/or truancy activities within 30 days;
5. Five ANOVs within 30 days.
In the ACLU fantasy world, every police officer should be ex-military, trained at Quantico, have Yale college degrees in psychology, and African-American studies, and all be registered Democrats.
Ideally. Unlike the CPD where you have Calumet College Clowns without a lick of common sense to save themselves.
Can't believe this guy got shitcanned for that. I can understand a stint at the academy or detail office but no way should they have terminated him. I'm curious about the less than lethal options available for him at the time, maybe a taser could've been utilized given his assessment of the situation. A damned if you, damned if you don't scenario for the responding cop...expect this to be the norm in our current liberal utopia society. From a northeast LEO...
Sorry, I disagree. The guy had a gun and playing Carnac the magnificent is foolhardy at best and life threatening at worst. I would never work with someone that risks his and fellow copper's lives. To say nothing of the horrible precedent it sets.
5/20/2017 02:39:00 PM
I'll make sure I remember that when it's you in that guys shoes. Oh , I see, you'll never be in that position, yeah right!
5/20/2017 09:37:00 AM
Please keep Dean, you ALSO did nothing.
Typical damned if you do, damned if you don't that's all too common in policing nowadays.
Dat ACLU Loves Having Da Cake And Eating It Too!
Dat ACLU Loves Having Da Cake And Eating It Too!
"Discuss"
OK....screw the aclu
Welcome to testing with the CPD. Fuck the people with no clout that are better qualified than the clout babies. Look how many real swimmers are on the marine unit.
So so true. There is no legitimate unit on CPD. I tried out for SWAT and really put my heart into getting ready. I wasn't selected. I know wasn't the best but I do know that others were chosen that were worse then me. You could tell the fix was in when the swat evaluators looked the other way.
Funny how the graded scenerioes that were videotaped just disappeared. Cheating Lt's exam and cheating swat officers. Nothing is legit.
most of all the new hires are from inside of a trick bag.....stay fetal and safe.......
To OT quota question: all of that combined effort is about 9 hours of work in 30 days. BFD!!! How low can the bar be set. Mr fucking fantastic or even ant-man couldn't limbo under that bar. And those are our only identifiable work level standards. No wonder our shooting clearance rate is under 10 percent.
O.T.
Is this a quota? or a work requirement? Discuss.
1. Issuance of five parking citations in 30 days;
2. Issuance of five moving citations in 30 days;
3. Three physical arrests within 30 days;
4. Two curfew and/or truancy activities within 30 days;
5. Five ANOVs within 30 days.
5/20/2017 04:45:00 PM
To work a VOLUNTARY overtime initiative? No.
If your head was somewhere besides your ass you would now that the VRI activity requirements have been mediated through the court system years ago.
Go back to sleep.
I was suggesting they could be reprimanded instead of fired in relation to the dept policy of the related out of state story. I'm not saying what Van Dyke did was what I would do. I'm am saying it was legal. Time and distance wasn't around back then and if Laquan was too dangerous to take down physically with police action, then he could be shot by police action. period. And I'll always have your six whether you like it or not.
Above is response to below............
"Why were the other officers who took no police action not just reprimanded."
What do you define as "police action"? Is discharging your firearm the only thing you consider to be action? If so, remind me to never have you watching my six. If the first officer reasonably believes (remember that concept?) that the subject poses no immediate threat, and possibly detected some level of response to his efforts to have him self-disarm, then that is clearly "police action".
For Christ's sake, just standing and watching a barricaded subject is "police action". You are obviously happy for the trigger, and some day its gonna get you jammed up. And before you go with the "You can't just stand there" shit, let me tell you I am ALL for neutralizing any living soul if they need it, and I would never hesitate. The point is here, the second wave coming into this call should have at least realized there was something going on (call it de-escalation, negotiation, whatever) and not have bailed into blasting the guy. Assess the situation.
It's all "police action" there grasshopper...
Who gave the ACLU the authority to dictate what the police should or should not be doing. Let pull the plug on these jagoffs and get on with what we came on this job to do. I like 11.40.00 and the idea of getting rid of the paper when making a stop. Boy that would get rid of a lot of bullshit from the Merit Bosses and give us back some flexibility, and reinstate the use of discretion so we can become human once again. Let me just say, hey ACLU I'm joining the NRA and I want to call you a dirty name but your not even worth the trouble you sissy fucks.
Let me ask you this: if you were a civilian ( not L.E. ) & you talked him out of suicide , would'nt you be a hero ? And what if you were C.C. and you had to use defensive action- if lets say he had a gun and did'nt listen to your entreaties and he was suicidal and had a weapon and was threatening to you, even as you tried to help, and you acted defensively, would you still be justifed under a real, perceived threat ?
"In peace, sons bury their fathers.
In war, fathers bury their sons."
Herodotus
Anonymous said...
O.T.
Is this a quota? or a work requirement? Discuss.
1. Issuance of five parking citations in 30 days;
2. Issuance of five moving citations in 30 days;
3. Three physical arrests within 30 days;
4. Two curfew and/or truancy activities within 30 days;
5. Five ANOVs within 30 days.
5/20/2017 04:45:00 PM
Is this for VRI? Again, VRI is voluntary, so basically no rules apply. If you don't want meet the requirements, sign up for only supplemental. Better yet stop working it all together!!! Help show how short the department really is.
Both officers were correct. Perception is an individual thing. Not going to Monday morning quarterback their decisions. Would take either officer as a partner.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
The cop used his training and personal war experiences to deduce that the subject's actions were a desperate cry for help.
If you do this verbally on your body camera YOU BETTER NOT SHOOT HIM AFTER! Your statements WILL be used against you.
5/20/2017 09:56:00 AM
You are of course aware that these types of situations are quite dynamic and can change in a heartbeat? That means something may happen that then puts the officer in a situation where they must react with deadly force to an offenders actions. But then an experienced officer would know that!
Lets kill the ACLU agreement this city made with this useless organization and stop funding them so they will die a slow death.
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