Pension Bankruptcy Looms
- Without a taxpayer bailout, Chicago’s police pension fund won’t have enough money to pay benefits to retirees in 2021, according to a projection by Local Government Information Services (LGIS), which publishes Chicago City Wire.
At the end of 2020, LGIS estimates that the Policemen’s Annuity and Benefit Fund of Chicago will have less than $150 million in assets to pay $928 million promised to 14,133 retirees the following year.
Fund assets will fall from $3.2 billion at the end of 2015 to $1.4 billion at the end of 2018, $751 million at the end of 2019, and $143 million at the end of 2020, according to LGIS.
LGIS analyzed 12 years of the fund’s mandated financial filings with the Illinois Department of Insurance (DOI), which regulates public pension funds. It found that-- without taxpayer subsidies and the ability to use active employee contributions to pay current retirees, a practice that is illegal in the private sector-- the fund would have already run completely dry, in 2015.
We have more retirees that ever before and the 55-and-out provision seems almost designed to ruin the pension. Aside from killing off every single retiree (a difficult task given that most are armed and willing to shoot back), a day of reckoning is fast approaching.
Another article here about Illinois' nearly three years without a budget and Comptroller Susana Mendoza complaining about the unpaid bills (after she gave Herbie a $1,000 and herself and staff new cars).
Pitchforks and torches time fast approaching.
Another article here about Illinois' nearly three years without a budget and Comptroller Susana Mendoza complaining about the unpaid bills (after she gave Herbie a $1,000 and herself and staff new cars).
Pitchforks and torches time fast approaching.
Labels: money questions, pension
posted by SCC at 7:01 AM
194 Comments:
Car wash??? Cookie sale???
When are we going to picket city hall?
As a new cop with 5 years on that doesn't worry me as much as if I were retired. Complete bs these guys paid into it for 30 years and might have their promised benefits reduced or even worse, taken. Invest my fellow young coppers invest, invest invest and invest some more. I'm not counting on a pension 20 years from now. Fuck this city.
The pension will be fine. Just be ready for more taxes and fees. Taxes will be placed on services. Currently, some services are taxed. Fees will be placed on everything. There will be a city income tax.
You will have more and higher sin taxes (soda, candy, cigarettes, and so on). And of course, you will pay higher property taxes.
The pension will be fine.
I got mine beat the city for over $650 G and still counting fuck this place!
The padded Exempt pensions given out to connected buddies don't help the fund and should be illegal!
Someone better start building that casino.
I promise you, when the money stops, politicians will fall. Past and present.
But keep bailing out the biggest and most useless social program around...CPS
I just don't understand how elected officials throughout this state have ignored the pension and deficit situation. They have no regard for the eventual and imminent failure of the pensions and the entire state. Where do people and thinking like this come from? How is it possible the state is run like this and yet all these elected officials would be broke and living on skid row. To the contrary most are millionaires and very well to do. Time to seize some assets and explore their personal finances!!!!
How do you think Rahm kept the schools open on such short notice? He raided the pensions no doubt. City could never qualify for a loan that large. The rat bastard hurt the good guys in quest of a vote.
The state and city are on the hook for $250 billion in pension obligations,we are screwed!
Bailouts! Bailouts! You're talking Bailouts! (to paraphrase "Playoffs")
9.5 won't make a required payment let alone a bailout. Pretty sure that 2020 prediction is based on required contributions being made.
CPS can't sell bonds (rated just above junk). The entire state teetering on economic collapse, can't say bankruptcy as a state can't do it without Congressional approval.
Pension has "State Constitution" guarantees, but there is no guarantee for the state.
Be thankful there was smart sarge at the "Thousand Person Gathering" who realized the ramifications of performing duties in a restrictive environment. While your actions may be right (legal) ... you may be wrong.
Couple posts by Baby G over the last couple days were spot on .... it is time to learn (if needed) to police SMART.
Now what?
if they diminish our pensions, will we have to pay property tax's? Would you pay someone who owes you money, just sayin.
Thanks for the good laugh this morning on the besides killing off the armed retirees joke. Good one!!😀
With the stock market and other possible investments at all time highs, who is or is not investing anything for the funds, and where is the money sitting? A lot of questions and someone needs to be responsible!
Disgustingly criminal. They are crashing it to make it vanish into thin air.
I'm guessing a lot of people are going to be sorry they pulled the plug. They could have stayed and made 90,000 and socked a few dollars in deffered comp. If the city offers you something thats too good to be true, just know it isn't. This mayor, just like the last one, hates us.
Mendoza's got a problem? You mean she didn't know the score when she ran for office last year? Stupid, corrupt woman.
And no private investors would buy CPS bonds because, well, CPS might default on them.
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20170620/NEWS13/170629975/no-buyers-for-chicago-school-bonds-causes-rates-to-hit-9?X-IgnoreUserAgent=1
And just look at the cash both CPS and Illinois are hemorrhaging just to pay the interest on money they have to borrow. Illinois alone pays more than $10,000,000 a DAY for this. How many kids could that feed? How many potholes could that fix?
How many junkies could that save? Huh, libtards? It's your making, give us an explanation.
The Daley-Emanuel Democratic death spiral accelerates.
The Madigan-Cullerton Democratic death spiral accelerates.
This is the beginning of the endgame, people. Things will start moving quickly soon.
Should this happen....You'll see a couple of thousand retirees, myself included, STORM Shitty Hall...And I Highly doubt that ANY OFFICER would STOP us from getting to these Alderthieves and whoever the Mayor might be then....Can't you picture us Old Timers doing that???....Yeeee HAAWWWWW...
The numbers are a bit skewed, in that in 2015 there was approximately 689 million in contributions and the fund performed poorly,but there was still almost 9 million paid in management fees. We are getting killed in fees.There was close to 690 million paid out so contributions were a wash. Yes the number of retirees has gone up, but the lion share of those retirees are being paid out at a lower annuity amount, the article is correct about future retirees getting paid more, but doesn't take into account newer officers get paid at a far higher rate then there predecessors. Our pension fund needs to work harder at reducing fees, while shoring up the lackluster performance of our fund. The city is going to be on the hook for around 619 million that is needed to be paid in for fy2016 according to legislation. The legislation is forcing better funding, now it is time for our pension to perform without the hefty fees.
Is anyone really surprised? It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion. You know what's coming, but....
I reckon the liberal democrats in the sanctuary city, pandering to criminals and illegal aliens, figure they won't have to pay any pensions after they get the whole P.D. closed down. Then they can put more taxpayer dollars in their own pockets before fleeing the country.
Anyone left will have to fend for themselves.
J.J.
Did I do something wrong?
Hey Rahm,
Just keep spending millions to hire lawyers to represent ILLEGAL aliens for free.
What could possibly go wrong here?
Wish I had your security detail, because this is city is in the express lane to the shitter.
Call the next case. Not a cop.
The FAILURE MAYOR will bankrupt Police but will have plenty of money for ILLEGAL ALIENS
EMMANUEL REFUSES to put money into POLICE PENSION FUND
I saw this coming decades ago! Remember Daley's nephew and the $26 Million loan that he lost?Yet, back then we accepted a Benevolent Ruler, sort of like the North Koreans! I can still remember being shut down by coppers in 020, who would argue: "Da Penshion iz Protekted and insurd by da State of Illinoise". Since then we have seen that State of "Illinoise" lose two more Governors to Federal Prison, (Total since 1960's is 4 went to Federal Prison) and the State itself is on the verge of Bankruptcy. Oh and that copper did well on the job, eventually working his way up to Tac in 020! So get ready, when you decide to take your bride or groom out for sea food, you may find yourselves opening a can of Cat Food! Bon Appetit! Baby "G"
Cut ALL Alderman salaries by 90%, they eliminate their slush funds of 1.2 Million a year to do whatever they want
I would (seriously) like to hear from our Pension Board on the likelihood and remedy of this situation.
Is a (proposed) payment from the City a short term remedy for the 'doom-date' kicking the can down the road, or are there other (bonified, NON mere opinion)solutions on this looming tragedy?
Us ol' timers would like to know please.
(Costco has dog food on sale this week)
This pension debacle is just one of the reasons why Richie Daley should be in the penitentiary. But no, he can't even testify in court because of a "debilitating stroke" he suffered years ago, and yet he can serve on the boards of several big corporations. His nephew Vanecko, who lost millions of dollars of pension fund money in shady real estate investments, should be Uncle Richie's cell mate.
And we don't even need to talk about parking meters or the Chicago Skyway.
A huge part of the problem is the massive pensions for exempt. This is nothing more than rewards for the connected. The fire department did something about it. We had better start lobbing for more funds and the elimination of this legalized stealing. We better get going before it is too late, which is fast approaching. There is no reason all union should be aboard and form a coalition.
Rahm was hoping, like his predecessor, to be long gone before the collapse of the fund. However his aspirations for higher political office were derailed.
It would only be a band-aid but end the gold braid pension NOW!
In 2008 I posted on this blog that the Pension Fund would be bankrupt by 2022. At the time I was criticized and informed by others that it would never happen. All one had to do was look at the inflows and outflows in the annual statement. My opinion has not changed and the reasons I have given a few times . 1. City not putting in enough of a contribution. 2. The FOP not doing its job- remember years ago when the FOP " forgave" about a 20 million dollar contribution to the Fund- How can the FOP legally do that? 3. Completely political management of the Fund- Vanecko says it all. 4 The Fund went for close to a year as a Lt. was the acting chief investment officer- a joke. 5. Years and years of the disability scam- just add 15 more people a year and after 20 years you have something that is costing the Fund hundreds of millions of dollars.
And finally, the attitude of the average police officer- more worried about the " retro" checks and the like instead of the biggest investment of their lives- if you live 20 years at 50 k per year- a million.
As for the early retirement given by the city- City was shifting higher costs ( senior officers ) from the City to the Pension Fund- same as they did for the disability people.
old retired guy
Simple solution
End Gold Braid Pension
All Merit Retire at Pension of a Patrolman
End the 55 and out with free health insurance
Raise minimum age to 57 years and maximum to age 67
Model pension fund after IMRF which is funded 90%
No double dipping
---> SCC: 'Pitchforks and torches time fast approaching.' <---
And don't forget the Guns & Ammo.
Because when 'Homie DeThug' and his Baby Mommas go to use their Link Cards for Diapers and Crown Royal and it doesn't go through because there's ZERO Dollars remaining in state Welfare Money it's gonna get real ugly, real fast.
There will be Riots in every 'community of color'. Lootings, Robberies, Car-Jackings, Murders, Arsons -- Building after building will be torched. The MLK Riots of '68 will look like a Cub Scout Campfire Cookout in comparison. Matching or even surpassing the 'Great' Chicago Fire of 1871.
Add in the mix the roving bands of Gangbangers out on the streets hunting for rivals without fear of the police, you guys & gals will be busy dealing with the Welfare Rioters. Bodies WILL pile up on the streets. Normal people will have to hunker down in their homes with weapons and ammo at the ready. While at the same time on the lookout for Arsonists and Home Invaders looking for that easy target.
Like it's mentioned in the other thread, this will be 'Armageddon'. Or the closest thing to it without nuclear weapons being used.
He will have to go into the Tiff Funds. How many millions of dollars are skimmed from our taxes to payoff the friends of the Democratic Party. What is the definition of Insanity: When a person keeps on performing the same task and thinks the outcome will come out differently. the people of the City of Chicago, the County of Cook, and the State of Illinois keep on voting Democratic.
And NO one will Go to Jail for this injustice...In fact, I predict that Chicago will keep voting for the same politicians it always has.
And the Pension board should be strung up in a public square for this. Instead they will be business as usual until the end. How can billions of dollars be "poorly invested" without any return?
Another empty Promise made by the city of Chicago...!
It is truly time for the villagers to head to city hall with torches, and pitchforks...
12 Pm Monday alright????
So much for the gold braid pensions-- these political types actually think they are going to get their huge pensions.
I know yall saw the article about dissolving Ollinois.
Rahmonia! Madiganistan! Taxwinkletopia!
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
It is almost like you guys wrote that article!
WTF.....where do I show up?
How is the NYPD able to pull off doing 20 years and you can retire, and CPD is designed to fail at being able to retire at 50?
Actually, the time where pitchforks and torches would have done some good has passed. People simply can not grasp the staggering size of the debt that Chicago and Illinois have run up, and the near impossibility of finding a way out even with raising crazy taxes. It's just that bad. Anyone holding debt obligations (and this includes those who are owed pensions) will suffer crippling write-downs on what they are owed.
Any return to solvency is years away. Anyone whose finances are entangled with Chicago or the state will take a beating. Best advice is, don't sit around waiting for things to be fixed/get better. Look our for #1 and start now.
and Rahm is still going with the "greedy employees" excuse
Rahm wants to talk about spending the billions on every bullshit thing from bike paths, not needed schools,to helping with the hundreds of millions to build the barry obama clown library, and all the "friends and family payoffs" along with the 50! Then rahm durbin tammy toni and the rest including the "50 sheep" refuse to follow federal immigration laws allowing criminals from other countries to cause mayhem and carnage everywhere as we lose billions in federal dollars! Trump has been in Wisconsin,Indiana,Iowa,Ohio everywhere surrounding the most corrupt dirty swamp in the nation but will not dip his toe into this slimy pit at all!
What a great idea elected lets mess with the thin blue line, men and women who are armed and stressed and take away their pensions! Look at what rahm did to retirees health care, then gets a pat on the cowardly back by e mailers congratulating his ass!
Then rahm throws millions to the thugs,and illegals in everything from free food, free housing, free health care, free schools, even summer free meals for the "children" rahms tagline! Who pays for this? we do the honest hardworking coppers and others! Teachers pay 2% into pension funds we pay 9% but then rahm takes a 7% (ludicrous interest rate) loan and shoves into teachers pension funds! guess because teachers can and do strike rahm fears them, how about police just do ewhat they have to? when boss says "atta boy" dont listen follow general orders no more proactive policing until we are fully pension funded watch how fast rahm takes care of it!
Great job to assholes like oreilly taking down Trump plaza signs and stealing the $5,000 campaign donation from Trump and then like a little girl promised to give it back if Trump won, then like a lying democrat kept the money! have another drink brendan stfu!
Lappe loves to talk about disabled coppers what about Gold Braid pensions ? CPD pension unlike CFD pension Has gold braid pensions. This is a major problem. The pension board should make it more easily avaiable to list fees which managers receive for handling the fund. All the stories in the Sun Times talking about disabled coppers making the pension broke is a joke. This is the democrat party and the machine trying to get the attention away from the real issues with our pension fund.
Fees, gold braid pensions, salaries , consultants fees need to made public asap.
They democrats are great at putting the attention on something else just to distract from the core issues. Hopefully the Union addresses these issues. The pension fund loves to put all the info and minutes on coppers hearings on website. Big deal people. Let's get real!!! I want to see the pension fund post all consulting fees , I want to see all hedge fund manager fees , all salaries of employees just like coppers are posted, all legal fees in house and outsourced,
The day is coming where this fund is going to be gone very soon. The city knows it hence the sad attempt to take away benefits the past few years . Lappe was a city hall person on that board and he was a pawn. Hope the next person is independent and gets the pension fund to keep a monthly update on all fees.
Time to break ground for the new casino?
so, what happens in 2021?.....14,000 retirees go bankrupt, and go on welfare?....
Kinda looks like we're going to have to do without police altogether, no? Gonna
be real interesting soon enough. 600 kills each year will be trivial. Get ready for martial law.
FOP should sue the City for not funding their end. Sue Daley too.
Is the line ready? Gonna be hell to pay!
The neglect and intentional grounding was multi-generational. So must be the retribution.
I did a YouTube search on "Why is Chicago Broke" and the results were astonishing. One video said that "Social Unrest" will be the outcome when Illinois & Chicago start defaulting on Pension payments, and other entitlement programs. I was lead to the conclusion that its only a matter of time before an implosion occurs.
Even if we took the TIF money, its not enough.
Seems we should have listened to those Old Timers and shored up the pension fund etc. instead of taking other stuff like retro, P-Days and the other short term bones the City threw at us.
Well, it looks like its to late, and the can that was kicked down the road has hit a wall and cant be kicked any further. So, in 2021 a few short years from now we will be in for a WORLD of hurt.
Could it be the overall plan of the 55 & Out benefit was only intended to reduce the payroll ranks and eventually dissolve...destroy the CPD Pension Fund?
Was it all part of the Democrats grand socialist, fundamental change scheme?
Rememner, they never thought they'd ever lose another election when the buffoon was elected in 2008.
If Chicago and Illinois is so powerfully broke, why isn't there any concern by the politicians, besides some being excessively wealthy, why aren't their pension balances in dire straits?
Is the CPD and city pension funds the only ones facing crisis?
The truth is they're not broke, it's just simply that theyre spending too much and no elected official is willing to cut off the welfare spigot.
There's doesn't seem to be much concern from Rahm & the Democrats other than funding Sanctuary and Ghetto happy programs with millions of Working Taxpayer dollars. More parks, stadiums, walkways and Sanctuary ID's.
Can anyone name one major improvement in the highly taxed and underserved 41st Ward (No, not sewers and schools...we paid dearly for those) ?
55 & Out wasn't an employee benefit and anyone in the 20 years on-the-job range has to be wondering about the money ($150-180k) they contributed for two decades.
Some say $500,000 is the minimum you should have in Def Comp...or die early.
Can you survive on $25k a year for 20 yrs. after retirement?
We must hold the politicians responsible for this mess........and Hauser, the Mike Madigan of the pension board, needs to go!
Headline on the national Fox website the other day referred to Illinois as a "banana republic". Worst state in the union. Dems/liberals destroyed it. Enough said.
Four to six man bank robbery teams.
Kevin Graham this is without any doubts the absolute most important issue facing the Chicago Police Department at this moment and for the future make sure in any negotiations this is not a negotiatable item! Kevin you were elected to help the forgotten man and women are the Chicago Police Department make sure this is taken care of quickly!
The city has far to many assests to sell....I think since it's around contract time they are attempting to sway the general public and paint the police as greedy.
It appears the pension has become untenable after 2020. All of FOP's allowing the city to forgo a payment as a pension holiday has put us in a bad spot. Thank you very much to Nolan, Donahue and Angelo. You suck!
King Daley is enjoying retirement on the gold coast. He's not too worried about his pension. Now go do your 30 years of civic service and get to the end of the line.
Pay up Rahm. It is the law.
This has all been done by design. They want to bankrupt the system and have a similar result that Detroit had after bankruptcy. Dumb Dean gave them a pass on the required payment the city was lawfully supposed to make. I seriously don't think coppers have a clue how bad this situation is. About 10 years ago we were traveling at about 20 mph in the wrong direction. Now we're traveling at the speed of light and there is no turning back, especially since Dan gave them the pass on that payment.
This happened to my Mother, she worked at a hospital for 30+ years and it went bankrupt. She was shit out of luck, thank God my father invested well and his pension was sound.
What a way to fuck Chicago's front line defense and backstab every single police officer that is willing to put their lives on the line every day! The city still takes money out of our checks for the "guaranteed pension" every two weeks and we have no say in it. This was a contractual agreement told to us if we take the job. We have been deprived of our monies earning potential cause the city took it. If we knew this we could have invested in other ways. You think morale is bad now??? Just wait. Who would ever want to be a first responder in this city again? You can bet the politicians pension is solid. But they do have billions of money to spend on pet projects to keep them in power. What a disgusting group running this city and state.
It's really simple...Make a list of all the billions the city has spent on senseless BS pet projects over the last 20 years. Now if they put just 5% of that money into the promised pension fund there would be no issue. So how shitty of a police force does Chicago want? This will be the ultimate death of the police department. Without a police force what business would want to stay here? What responsible productive tax paying citizen? It's already very bad but this is nothing compared to what will happen if the politicians purposely destroy the pension.
Time to hear real solutions from the city or abandon ship and leave Chicago now . Panic will set in and more guys will leave now to look for jobs elsewhere. I have 21 years now , unless i hear something of a solution in a few months im gone.
Welcome to bankruptcy and tax/spend politicians. We should have known what we were getting when we voted these folks into office.
No pension funding?
What else are you still sticking around for? Staying because of the high morale, and trusted leadership? Do you really think that the "pensions will not be diminished" amendment in the IL Constitution will save it?
The good news is that your house in Chicago is worth something (this year, maybe next year, how much is a house in Detroit worth today?).
Still alot of cops only putting 10, 50 or 100 bucks a check in deffered comp.
You will regret that. Plus ur gonna miss out on the trump economic profits. Better get started. U can make a lump sum contribution for this fiscal year if u havent maxed it. Good luck in retirement otherwise, this pension and this state are about to fail!
I seem to remember a certain bog has been trying to raise this story for about ten years now.
How does it feel to be Cassandra? Don't feel bad. No One believed Cassandra either.
Dear God , why did I choose this job?!?!?!
In to deep now.. gotta stick it out and see what happens at this shit show👎🏿
Where is the casino they promised? Why would anyone take rahms "word", the guy is a huge liar, says one thing and does another. Money for all pet projects and none for the pension. I hope fop is moving forward, otherwise blue flu for all.
Time to quit, there's nothing here for us.
WTF, it's OK TO SPEND ALL KINDS OF MONEY ON STADIUMS AND BIKE PATHS BUT NOT A PENSION FUND?
Sounds like misappropriation of funds by Rahm which should be a crime.
What an asshole.
Gee, in 2015 Rham raised the property taxes to pay for the pensions. What happened to that money?
Also, lets not forget, he has told us that the profits from the casino will be used to shore up the pensions.
Expect staggeringly reduced benefits. The law? There is no law in Illinois. They make it up as they go along. As long as the rats can keep their jobs and keep the "constituents" happy.
Pension Bailout? Bankruptcy? Federal Bailout?
This is where the careful and respectful relationship that the Chicago Democrat Machine cultivated with the President Donald Trump Administration will really pay off. I wouldn't worry about that Pension Fund shortfall at all.
(I foresee us all with a comfortable retirement living; in that refrigerator box under the interstate.)
How are the CPS and CFD pensions?
"Paying for retirees "as we go," which will prove the only option once funds run dry, will require almost quadrupling city property tax bills."
How much will our houses in Chicago be worth after this happens?
And how much will properly taxes be after half the taxpayers leave Chicago?
And what happens after half the remaining taxpayers flee also?
Who moves in next door to you when the taxpayers move out?
Mumble, mumble, *Death Spiral* mumble.
So, I guess it's time to bring in more illiterate and unskilled illegals.
That should solve the problem.
Oh, and keep not paying bills.
OK, that should solve the problem.
Oh, and sell junk bonds--zimbabwe and venezuela may buy.
There, that should solve the problem....right after blaming bush and trump.
Hey, state law says they have to pay our pensions. ....nothing to worry about.
Its coming!!
ballerina borrow money to give teacher pay raises They only pay 2% in pension fund
He has to pay for police pension
He has way more white shirts than necessary to run CPD
Hire qualified commanders not political hacks
he pension will be fine. Just be ready for more taxes and fees. Taxes will be placed on services. Currently, some services are taxed. Fees will be placed on everything. There will be a city income tax.
You will have more and higher sin taxes (soda, candy, cigarettes, and so on). And of course, you will pay higher property taxes.
The pension will be fine.
6/22/2017 07:27:00 AM
Whew, glad everything will be fine! Wait a minute, there's no money left after all your new taxes kick in. The old Dionne Warwick seems appropriate "gotta get off, gonna get out of this merry-go-round" etc.
Gas cigs pop = Indiana fuck this place
Anyone with 10 years to goWho doesn't realize the pensions will be reduced was not thinking clearly. Will probably get 75 to 80% of what we were promised
ATTENTION anyone considering taking this job!!!! The city is lying to you about the pension you are supposed to get upon retirement. This is the first of the many lies you will be told. Go elsewhere for employment. The city leaders are evil snakes. lying is what they are best at.
What's the FOP saying?
Hey more good news! Now let's go learn the new Use of force model.
the ability to use active employee contributions to pay current retirees
This is a classic Ponzi Scheme. Madoff's in prison. Why not Rahmacide and Shortshanks among others that haven't paid in what was owed, and instead paid it to build crap that benefited the fat envelope crew?
Lying, thieving Daley and now Rahm are the biggest culprits in this travesty.
How are they not in jail?
At the very least it's a wanton breach of their fiduciary duty.
should have been switched to a 401k around 1985.
Rahm's got TIFF funds that would solve this.
He uses them as his own personal piggy bank for his pet projects...... he's got no intention of making our pension fund solvent.
Mark my word..... if this is allowed to happen there will be blood in the streets!
Last 31Dec16 9.5 was suppose to make a huge payment into the CPD pension.
Did he make it?
Gee I wonder what the heath is of the mayor and alderthieves pension funds???
🖕🏿things are about to get ugly.
There seems to be No way to shore up the fund to any long term benefit. Even if the city did add the 300 million they were supposed to last year, they would still go broke soon...looks like 5 years, give, or take. AND No one can fix this.
They Stole it All from us. First Health Care, and Now the Pension...Make some NEW plans ladies and gentlemen.
ALAS my pension, I knew Ye Not...Any one who can, should retire now. Better five years worth than nothing at all! I know some who retired 2 and a half years ago, and the Pension board told them the fund was good for 25 years minimum. What do we do when even the Pension board is lying to us???
Seriously folks....It's Gone! I hope Walmart still needs Greeters...:-(
These mother fuckers better fix this shit, or else!!!!
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Should this happen....You'll see a couple of thousand retirees, myself included, STORM Shitty Hall...And I Highly doubt that ANY OFFICER would STOP us from getting to these Alderthieves and whoever the Mayor might be then....Can't you picture us Old Timers doing that???....Yeeee HAAWWWWW...
6/22/2017 08:25:00 AM
Ill be right there with you.
Hell hath no fury like retired, fucked over, coppers.
No one ever answers this question for me. Why is it a pension fund manager gets paid regardless of return And two, I look at common tech stocks, Amazon's CEO is now worth 80 billion. WTF, is your pension in on Amazon, Google, Apple, Walmart? If not then why not? Third, what pension plan are the politicians on. I read where a congressman only contributed 100k but she was on pace to receive over a million fucking dollars. Pension holidays, zero lawsuits. Pension contributions, zero lawsuits. Vanecko stole from you, no charges. Now your fund will be insolvent. And that is the nasty stank truth.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
The pension will be fine. Just be ready for more taxes and fees. Taxes will be placed on services. Currently, some services are taxed. Fees will be placed on everything. There will be a city income tax.
You will have more and higher sin taxes (soda, candy, cigarettes, and so on). And of course, you will pay higher property taxes.
The pension will be fine.
6/22/2017 07:27:00 AM
Trump will never be elected president and the Titanic would never sink either.
The city/county/state can not tax their way out of this problem. Can you say Detroit?
The pensions to include gold braid pensions are locked into state law and the constitution. The only way this is going to resolve itself is for the city to go bankrupt.The last I heard the city is taking the position that each pension fund stands alone and they will not fund it anymore then what is called for in the law and when it runs dry that is just too bad. They have known for decades that the pension fund is underfunded and that this was going to happen. I can't imagine how much the city would have to raise property taxes to fund all of the pensions. But, the governor is calling for a four year freeze on property taxes and the last compromise proposal with the dems and Rauner called for a two year freeze. Routh times ahead and all of this can be blamed on Daley.
Anonymous said...
Time to hear real solutions from the city or abandon ship and leave Chicago now . Panic will set in and more guys will leave now to look for jobs elsewhere. I have 21 years now , unless i hear something of a solution in a few months im gone.
6/22/2017 02:04:00 PM
Smart man.I'm doing the same do my 20 and leaving i believe the city will fuck over those poor old guys that do 29 and a day and they will receive the same as the guys that leave at 20.I'll be young enough to still be employable at another job and been pumping money into other investments and def comp.
Sad because when i came on i was willingly to stay 30 or more years on this job its just not smart to do anymore.
Funny but I don't recall anything in the article about the city's contribution, or lack there of. Money to build a new stadium for DePaul, untold amounts of money wasted on trying to get the Lucas Museum here. And how much tax payer money will be poured into the Obama Presidential Library?
That's right. All the above shows where Rahms priorities are.
I think our next contract will be the most important one we--the cpd-has ever had. I'm not a big conspiracy guy, but the recent deluge of articles high-lighting the 231 billion unpaid pension liability , and 13 billion in unpaid bills Springfield is facing, seems to be more of a pr campaign then honest to goodness news reporting. Tiny dancer , and the Gov. have to know the economic disaster that has been created in our state , coupled with the lefty mind set of so many of the legislators, spells doom in the very near future.
The Chicago way has always been to cheat, steal, and lie till you get the outcome that the political hacks want,so if the state , city, county can no longer afford to send pension checks, who cares, change the subject, and change the contract so pensions are cut, or healthcare is canned for the retired--and soon to be active members.
Leonard Hamilton said...
No one ever answers this question for me. Why is it a pension fund manager gets paid regardless of return And two, I look at common tech stocks, Amazon's CEO is now worth 80 billion. WTF, is your pension in on Amazon, Google, Apple, Walmart? If not then why not? Third, what pension plan are the politicians on. I read where a congressman only contributed 100k but she was on pace to receive over a million fucking dollars. Pension holidays, zero lawsuits. Pension contributions, zero lawsuits. Vanecko stole from you, no charges. Now your fund will be insolvent. And that is the nasty stank truth.
6/22/2017 04:46:00 PM
Heres the answer to your question. Pension fund managers get paid a percentage of the money you have invested with then regardless of the return. In fact that get paid by the money invested with them even if the investment lose value. Happened to me with a J P Morgan Chase managed account. I lost 10% in a year but still had to pay the fees that year. Needless to say I sold the investment.
As far as Amazon, Apple, Google, etc its not that easy to just pick winners You have to get those early and the pension fund is limited to their investments and the amounts. Easy to easy after the stocks go up, then hard to buy because you don't want to buy at the top
Because the pension has to pay out monthly pensions they cannot take big risks or lose too much in one investment because they cant afford to wait for the investment to come back
Think about it, in 2008 the stock market lost almost half its value If the fund invested 4 billion in the market, it would have 2 billion in 2009 and would not be able to recover with only 2 billion to invest and at the same time paying out the pensions with that money
Anonymous Anonymous said...
The pension will be fine. Just be ready for more taxes and fees. Taxes will be placed on services. Currently, some services are taxed. Fees will be placed on everything. There will be a city income tax.
You will have more and higher sin taxes (soda, candy, cigarettes, and so on). And of course, you will pay higher property taxes.
The pension will be fine
Couldn't agree more. Has everyone forgotten a few years back we were paying a 5% state income tax. Not good politically, but if the state was going under the politicians could raise the state tax back to its original rate of 5%. City could impose a city income tax. Other cities have that. Seems Rahm always finds money when he needs it. City will never file bankruptcy because if you do you have to open up the city books and I don't think they want to do that.
Taxpayer bailout?
What the fuck man, I thought chicago was all about the illegal alien sanctuary city bullshit.
Pay for your own shit man.
Be like the private ambulances and charge the same idiots that waste your time and other peoples dollars on these foolish bs calls.
Anonymous said...
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Should this happen....You'll see a couple of thousand retirees, myself included, STORM Shitty Hall...And I Highly doubt that ANY OFFICER would STOP us from getting to these Alderthieves and whoever the Mayor might be then....Can't you picture us Old Timers doing that???....Yeeee HAAWWWWW...
6/22/2017 08:25:00 AM
Ill be right there with you.
Hell hath no fury like retired, fucked over, coppers.
Dream on, and oh ya, bring bail money
I have a question--
I retired off the cpd with 35 yrs. My wife retired out of CPS with 30 yrs. We sold the house , and moved the hell out of the city, to Florida. Can Chicago impose a tax on out of state pensioners?I now it is a stupid question, but I don't put anything past those putzes.
I got bored, so I got a job as an airport cop a few days a week.Not bad , I took the healthcare,drug plan, and it gets me out of the house a few days a week. The best thing we ever did was move out of Chicago, I lost 40 lbs. since I retired, I walk 18 holes 2 x a week, and hit the gym almost everyday. Retirement is great.
Anonymous said...
These mother fuckers better fix this shit, or else!!!!
6/22/2017 04:19:00 PM
Or else what. Your going to write on the blog again
the sears at 1601 N Harlem Ave, Chicago, IL will close
Anonymous said...
Time to hear real solutions from the city or abandon ship and leave Chicago now . Panic will set in and more guys will leave now to look for jobs elsewhere. I have 21 years now , unless i hear something of a solution in a few months im gone.
6/22/2017 02:04:00 PM
Relax, stay 8 more and enjoy the pension
Relax Detroit filed bankruptcy and the police and fire retirees never lost any pension benefits, Unfortunately other city workers did
Anonymous said...
Kevin Graham this is without any doubts the absolute most important issue facing the Chicago Police Department at this moment and for the future make sure in any negotiations this is not a negotiatable item! Kevin you were elected to help the forgotten man and women are the Chicago Police Department make sure this is taken care of quickly!
6/22/2017 12:44:00 PM
Kevin and the pension fund both should hire accountants and examine this claim immediately. That way they could report back to the constituents with the result of the audit and the true position our pension is in. A lot of that report was what the author guessed what would happen and added his estimates and projections. How does he know the number of police hired in the next five years or the number reiring He just does projections An important one is what the pension fund is going to earn on its investments,, He just projected, another name for it is a guess Does he know for sure the direction of interest rates or the direction the market is going Of course he does, nobody does.
Anonymous said...
Anonymous Anonymous said...
The pension will be fine. Just be ready for more taxes and fees. Taxes will be placed on services. Currently, some services are taxed. Fees will be placed on everything. There will be a city income tax.
You will have more and higher sin taxes (soda, candy, cigarettes, and so on). And of course, you will pay higher property taxes.
The pension will be fine.
6/22/2017 07:27:00 AM
Trump will never be elected president and the Titanic would never sink either.
The city/county/state can not tax their way out of this problem. Can you say Detroit?
6/22/2017 04:53:00 PM
___
Of course not, and taxes are not going to go up.
You missed the point. Where do you think that the money is coming from?
Too all of you retirees who just retired: they voted for the last contract because of the raises, duty availability taken away from the new hires and scar tactics of this administration.... they were heard by me saying fuck the new hires = taking duty availability away for several of their beginning years of employment....."let them fight their own battles"......and now 2021.......oh well yes I'm still on the payroll and making base salary and overtime with the lord's blessing in good health waiting the outcome of this non-sustainability crisis! 🗣🤑👮♀️🏊🕺🏃🚶♀️🏋️♀️🌞🌝🏓🏈🏀⛳️🏋️♀️🤽♂️✈️🍺🍹🥃🏖🏝beach side 😉
Take the city to the highest court...
Fees , gold braid pensions, politicians , Fop giving forgiveness to City (Angelo) and more fees from money managers and Mesirow!! They broke our pension and now we will have nothing. Most thankless job ever. Money managers get crazy fees for nothing and we pay for it while benefits get dinimished for widows and disabled. Truly sad state of affairs. Every board member is at fault and I am disgusted when individuals like Mike Lappee acts all almighty and noble when he knows the amount of fees money managers , lawyers, consultants get from our fund. He is flith to me. Yes he survived near death but he was in a position where he truly could of made a difference handling the previous mentioned issues and he just focused on pounding into everyones head that disabled officers were scammers and shit. Lappe , deep down your a wannabe politician that did nothibg for officers. Many years ago Lappe showed up on a stop to assist (a nonsense street stop) and I have to say if the stuff went down you would not of been able to truly handle yourself or the other officers on scene. Your uniform was impeccable I must say.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Simple solution
End Gold Braid Pension
All Merit Retire at Pension of a Patrolman
End the 55 and out with free health insurance
Raise minimum age to 57 years and maximum to age 67
Model pension fund after IMRF which is funded 90%
No double dipping
Agree, but start off at 55 first before you give the city everything at 57
Chicago owes more than it owns
At -$44,000, Chicago's Taxpayer Burden™ ranks 49th out of the 50 most populated cities
Chicago is among 43 “Sinkhole Cities” without enough assets to cover its debt
Elected officials have created a Taxpayer Burden™, which is each taxpayer's share of city bills after its assets available have been tapped
TIA's Taxpayer Burden™ measurement incorporates both assets and liabilities, not just pension debt
Chicago has only $7.6 billion of assets available to pay bills totaling $45.8 billion
To fill the $38.3 billion financial hole each Chicago taxpayer would have to send $44,000 to the city
Because of a new accounting rule, Chicago now has to report its pension debt on its balance sheet. As a result, the city's reported pension debt grew from $8.6 billion in 2014 to $33.8 billion in 2015.
The city's financial report was released 182 days after its fiscal year end, which is considered untimely according to the 180 day goal
http://www.statedatalab.org/state_data_and_comparisons/city/chicago
Werent taxes raised for a big pension deposit? What happend to that?
Crains! Business Newspaper publication reported that Chicago has the most apartment building skyscrapers go up right now in the USA , go figure! pout me another and I will have another beer! today was a day for another job well done!
District 020 Power Rangers!
The pension will be fine? Whatta ya been smokin ? Oh, you are a CPS grad and you never even learned to use a calculator, I see.
If I was retired from the job I'd be looking for another source of income soon, those 4 years will fly. Unreal and unfucking fair to the old timers. How could have that happened.
To "John": if you paid attention to negotiations, the $20 mil you say FOP "forgave" the city was actually a trade for the "55 and out". Pensions are non negotiable, but the pension contributions are!
Herbie, give back that $1K.
Rahm, you are only 9.5 of a man,
and your shit will be adjusted accordingly.
The pension will survive because the city has no choice but to fund it. The kicker though is when they skyrocket the taxes to pay for it, guess who pays twice? That's right the chumps who are forced to live in the city get double whammied. So the long and short is if you are able to retire do so and hightail it out of this rotten town.
As a taxpayer I say wipe out all pensions for new hires. Satisfy all current obligations but any and all new hires on 401k. So in 50-60 years state and city out of this mess.
If it is estimated that property taxes will have to quadruple to save the pension, the impact on commercial property owners, property values and businesses will be devastating. They will leave. I am a commercial property appraiser and I see the struggle on a daily basis with business owners in Chicago now deciding whether to remain or relocate their businesses due to high taxes and fees. Look around, 30 years ago, Chicago was a manufacturing town with factories almost everywhere. Now, they are for the most part gone. There are very few large distribution warehouses left in the City. Why? The cost of operating Class 8 (semi) trucks in Chicago and Illinois is almost 2.5 times higher than in Indiana, (insurance, fuel tax, license, wages). As long as a driver can make deliveries in Chicago and return in their federal mandated 13 hour day of service, a warehouse in Indiana or Michigan (right to work states) can service clients in the City with substantially lower costs. The previous comment "the pension will be fine, just get ready for more taxes and fees". That's BS. Those who have the means and ability to move will do so. I moved out 7 years ago to Indiana because I saw what was happening.
Release the BILLIONS of dollars in the cities slush funds, better known as TIF monies. Those dollars are TAX revenue generated by businesses which are meant to go back into the city but instead the tax revenue is simply sitting in funds which the mayor and his merry thieves use at their discretion.
BEFORE any bankruptcy hearings the city government will be forced to open it's books and spend every available dollar to meet its fiscal obligations.
As in personal bankruptcy or business failures, all monies MUST be used to first pay employees (ie back pay, pension, insurance etc)
As a previous business owner who was forced to close its doors trust me, when it comes to saying you're broke, YOU as the owner will be but your employees will be paid what they have due.
Short answer is TIF money. 4 years pension is fully funded.
Last person out of Illinois please turn off the lights.
Anonymous said...
As a taxpayer I say wipe out all pensions for new hires. Satisfy all current obligations but any and all new hires on 401k. So in 50-60 years state and city out of this mess.
6/22/2017 08:57:00 PM
You are clueless.
Poor trade - bad precedent for an underfunded pension fund
old retired guy
1.) If you are in deferred comp, get out now. For the last 15 years our financial advisor has kept us in Roths vs deferred comp and they have outperformed deferred through all the highs and lows. We are not all finance experts, pay someone who is. Mine also wouldnt touch deferred with a 10' pole simply on the basis that it is run by the City and we all know how well City handles it own finances.
2.) For the politicos, if pension Armageddon does happen. Well, lets just say, it wont be torches and pitchforks. When you tell thousands of hardened, embittered, no stranger to violence men who answered a call, and in good faith agreed to be indentured servants, sacrificed their mind, body and soul to a losing battle with the promise of a middle class lifestyle and sound financial upkeep in their not so golden years, if you tell these men "sorry, we can't keep up our end of the bargain", it will turn the sheepdogs into wolves, and no quarter will be given to any and all who had a hand in this fuckery
Running out of other people's money. It's an Illinois tradition.
DNC Chicago was hacked if you have and own a garage a $5000 garage tax might be looming. In other news the Hillary Hicks are still and will always be stupid.
To "John": if you paid attention to negotiations, the $20 mil you say FOP "forgave" the city was actually a trade for the "55 and out". Pensions are non negotiable, but the pension contributions are!
No it wasn't. The 26 millions that Donahue let Daley avoid paying brought the retirement age down to 29 and a day, from 32 and a day. Also, it brought the 30 year pay increase down to 25 years. Daley knew that the pension was in trouble but he did not care. All he cared about was looking like he was helping us, but actually he knew that he was screwing us, but of course he got the backing from the FOP and won the election by a landslide. Daley is an evil person and Donohue is just a political phoney too.
Were the last big city police dept with residency requirements. Get these lifted .
Rahmie has money for new street lights, a new Gatley Stadium, tennis courts at 55& State but no money for the pension fund. Remember rahmmie could not work his black magic without the assistance of the 50 alderman.
Anonymous said...
If it is estimated that property taxes will have to quadruple to save the pension, the impact on commercial property owners, property values and businesses will be devastating. They will leave. I am a commercial property appraiser and I see the struggle on a daily basis with business owners in Chicago now deciding whether to remain or relocate their businesses due to high taxes and fees. Look around, 30 years ago, Chicago was a manufacturing town with factories almost everywhere. Now, they are for the most part gone. There are very few large distribution warehouses left in the City. Why? The cost of operating Class 8 (semi) trucks in Chicago and Illinois is almost 2.5 times higher than in Indiana, (insurance, fuel tax, license, wages). As long as a driver can make deliveries in Chicago and return in their federal mandated 13 hour day of service, a warehouse in Indiana or Michigan (right to work states) can service clients in the City with substantially lower costs. The previous comment "the pension will be fine, just get ready for more taxes and fees". That's BS. Those who have the means and ability to move will do so. I moved out 7 years ago to Indiana because I saw what was happening.
6/22/2017 09:53:00 PM
___________
You are BS, with your "right to work state" lingo. I have news for you Johny. Every single state is a right to work state. Sure, Van Dyke is getting his job back, Lincoln Park Zoo has a three head unicorn on display for you kids, and taxes are not going up.
IF (and a huge one at that) the pensions will continue to be paid, it will be funded by taking contributions from those currently working to pay those currently retired. There is a term for this:
A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation where the operator generates returns for older investors through revenue paid by new investors, rather than from legitimate business activities.
Those working will get it worse than those retired.
Hey, let's set up a "Go Fund Me" account for the CPD Pension...!
This 55 and 29 and 1 day is unsound, retirement should have stayed at 60 for free benefits and the mandatory retirement age should be 65. The prior 63 was set years back when cops aged fast, we tend to be healthier these days, I had to leave at 63 but am now 67 and vet I can come back and still have a place in m police work, like working as a SWAT equipment guy and let those guys back on the street, or as some other field support unit. 5559 Is bleeding g our pension. Daley clan has bled the city dry of money for years and they all should be in jail. Bridgeport White Trash, just ask anyone who lives there. Daley family are for Daley fami k y, little Richie wS the worst.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
1.) If you are in deferred comp, get out now. For the last 15 years our financial advisor has kept us in Roths vs deferred comp and they have outperformed deferred through all the highs and lows. We are not all finance experts, pay someone who is. Mine also wouldnt touch deferred with a 10' pole simply on the basis that it is run by the City and we all know how well City handles it own finances.
---
You're capped on what you can contribute to a Roth and the amount is tied to you're salary. Max a year, with a couple's combined income around $180k, is around 5k. The more you make, the less you can contribute. The contribution must come from earned income, not pension or interest income.
The sky is falling , the sky is fallling ! Look around you boys the city, county and state is all messed up with politicians who know how to spend money they don't have. This is a a wake up to FOP to stay on top of this issue.
Very afraid. I can see the city allowing the fund to go bankrupt. Then it will negotiate for a couple while no one gets paid, and then settle on giving retirees like 55 cents on the dollar. Coupled with the real possibility of Medicare not being there or being greatly reduced and the inability to pay for health insurance, I am very scared about where my wife and I will be beyond 10 years from now.
John, I agree. Poor trade. Also a thanks to 12:35am for the clarification.
I really don't know finance, but wasn't this bound to happen? Besides the City not making their payments, once they started putting new hires into a 401k plan those members would not be contributing to the pension fund. Only active pension fund members and the City would then be contributing. At some point the collecting pensioners would outnumber those contributing, and in some unknown fashion the difference would have to be made up. The 55 and out accelerated the process, bringing it to a head years before expected. The chart in the article does not appear to even take into account that the new hires for the last few years aren't even paying into the fund. I would like to know what plan was in effect for this eventuality when they switched to the 401k for new hires
A Lot of People came on this Job with the Pension as the Sole reason. Whatever your reasons for being the Police, The Pension no longer exists as a reason to apply for the job. I wonder how tough the search for new hires will be now? Even if they salvage some of the benefits, whose gonna take the job based upon a we'll see attitude in these troubled times? They will have to Lower the already (imho) low standards.
Maybe CPD will be utilized as a stopgap measure between jobs, fulfilling an employment need. Whatever the reason, if there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, very few will apply.
I predict that this will forever change the nature of CPD
"I think our next contract will be the most important one..."
IT's OVER!!!!...No contract can save us, or the pension! Who will negotiate, the FOP? In my career, we have not had a contract more than we have had a contract! And NOW knowing what we know about Health Care, and the Pension fund, we lost at every one of those "so called Negotiations" Good luck with that "Next" contract. Your best option is to come up with plan "B"... When will you get this??? They lied for years while SCC, and others sounded the alarm, and NO ONE listened. Read this post at face value you tool.
And No Villagers will appear at city hall...if they do they will be met by Millennial Hair Gel Police who are working their day off in RIOT gear for straight time. And THEY will be led by CPD brass who doesn't really give a rats Ass about "taking care of the Police" You wont even get in to city hall. Try and you will be Arrested on the Spot!
The Best option is a Nuclear One. Leave nothing behind, but scorched Earth...
glenn said...
Running out of other people's money. It's an Illinois tradition.
6/22/2017 11:00:00 PM
Sigh . . .
Not to quibble over semantics, but I like a little truth in advertising. Here we go:
Running OFF WITH other people's money. It's a Democratic tradition.
To "John": if you paid attention to negotiations, the $20 mil you say FOP "forgave" the city was actually a trade for the "55 and out". Pensions are non negotiable, but the pension contributions are!
No it wasn't. The 26 millions that Donahue let Daley avoid paying brought the retirement age down to 29 and a day, from 32 and a day. Also, it brought the 30 year pay increase down to 25 years. Daley knew that the pension was in trouble but he did not care. All he cared about was looking like he was helping us, but actually he knew that he was screwing us, but of course he got the backing from the FOP and won the election by a landslide. Daley is an evil person and Donohue is just a political phoney too.
As far as the 30 year increase, he did not bring it down to 25 years. I was one of the last to get the substantial 30 year raise and there was a date about a year later where an officer would not longer get the 30 year raise.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
1.) If you are in deferred comp, get out now. For the last 15 years our financial advisor has kept us in Roths vs deferred comp and they have outperformed deferred through all the highs and lows. We are not all finance experts, pay someone who is. Mine also wouldnt touch deferred with a 10' pole simply on the basis that it is run by the City and we all know how well City handles it own finances.
Don't think you understand about the Roth and deferred. Rothschild don't outperform anything all the Roth investment means is you paid tax the you earned the money and won't have to pay taxes in the future on the Roth account. You can get the same investments in the city deferred plan as a Roth The vanguard S&P 500 fund is the same fund whether it is a Roth or in deferred. Actually you have less money to invest in a Roth initially because you have to pay taxes on the income. Pays back later when you withdraw the money
Financial advisors also take fees which can reduce your gain
Warren buffet 3rd richest man made a million dollar beat 9 yrs ago with a top hedge fund manager on who would turn out the most profit. Now after 9 yr and warren only investing in the vanguard S&P 500 gained 822,000 fund manager after using all his experience gained like 224,000
The Governor’s veto message follows:
Today I veto Senate Bill 777. This bill continues the irresponsible practice of deferring funding decisions necessary to ensure pension fund solvency well into the future. The bill effectively makes Chicago taxpayers borrow from the pension funds at an additional cost of $18.6 billion. It’s a game politicians like to play with taxpayers’ dollars by delaying payments today and forcing future elected officials to deal with pension funding issues tomorrow. As all know by now, that practice led to our current pension woes across state and local pension systems. Chicago police retirees are rightfully opposed to the bill. Instead of doubling-down on our past mistakes, we must learn from them. In vetoing this bill, I stand with all Chicago taxpayers who will be saddled with higher future pension contributions if the bill were to become law.
The cost to Chicago’s taxpayers of kicking this can down the road is truly staggering. Actuaries estimate that between now and 2055, when the law would require these funds to achieve the 90% funded ratio, the total contributions to the Policemen’s Annuity and Benefit Fund of Chicago would increase by approximately $13 billion—an increase of 47.4% over contributions required under the current law. For the Firemen’s Annuity and Benefit Fund of Chicago, the total contributions would increase by approximately $5.6 billion, or 47.1% over the amounts under the current law. In other words, by deferring responsible funding decisions until 2021 and then extending the timeline for reaching responsible funding levels from 2040 to 2055, Chicago is borrowing against its taxpayers to the tune of $18.6 billion. This practice has to stop. If we continue, we’ve learned nothing from our past mistakes.
Irresponsible funding decisions have left us with state pension funds that are collectively underfunded to the tune of $111 billion. The poor fiscal health of these pension funds means we have to spend nearly 25 cents out of every dollar of the state budget on pensions, which significantly impairs our ability to provide vital services to those in need.
Irresponsible funding decisions have left teachers in Chicago with a drop in pension reserves from 100% funded as recently as 2001 to 51.8% funded today. On that trajectory, teachers can count on receiving only slightly more than 50 cents of every dollar owed to them in retirement – all because of a decade of pension holidays in which Chicago skipped the necessary contributions to the teachers’ pension fund.
Irresponsible funding decisions have left two of Chicago’s main employee pension funds near insolvency. The Municipal Employees’ Annuity and Benefit Fund of Chicago and the Laborers’ Annuity and Benefit Fund of Chicago, covering some 79,000 current and former Chicago workers, are projected to have zero balances as early as 2026 and 2029, respectively.
This is what happens when you fail to responsibly fund pension obligations.
And now, against this historic backdrop, Chicago wants to do it again, this time gambling with the pensions of its police officers and firefighters. SB 777 would permit Chicago to contribute to the two pension funds for its public safety workers far less than is actuarially required during fiscal years 2016 through 2020. Even worse, the bill would allow Chicago an additional 15 years to bring the funds to a responsible funding level of 90%, with the target year shifting from 2040 to 2055. Current and retired police officers and firefighters would have to wait until 2055 to know their pensions are secure. This is bad policy regardless of any fiscal impact, but doubly so when it comes with a price tag of $18.6 billion.
So with the support of Madigan they overrode Rauners veto and this became law costing taxpayers almost an additional 20 BILLION DOLLARS, with the support of Rahm and our Former President Dean Angelo. If this legislation had not been passed it would have held the city's feet to the fire to fund police and fire pensions properly. Thanks Dean.
Check this article on the warren buffet million dollar bet. I was a little off on the amounts buffets was $854,000 fund manager was 222,000
He was pointing out the advantage of low fees, less commissions on trading and the fees associated for long term investments which both the Roth and deferred are. For any investors in defer it's an eye opener from the 3 rd richest man in the world. Well worth the read
http://www.businessinsider.com/vanguard-shines-in-protgs-1-million-bet-with-warren-buffett-2017-2
Anonymous said...
As a taxpayer I say wipe out all pensions for new hires. Satisfy all current obligations but any and all new hires on 401k. So in 50-60 years state and city out of this mess.
6/22/2017 08:57:00 PM
You are clueless.
You said it all. If the new hires don't pay in how is our pension fund going to survive. Did he ever hear of ponzu funds collapsing when no new money comes in
Also your 401 will not make you the return that the pension pays because our pension is only effective because the city is supposed to pay in $2.00 for our $1.00. If you want a similar payout from the 401 the city would have to pay in that 2 to 1 every month or payday and they won't do that
Anonymous said...
1.) If you are in deferred comp, get out now. For the last 15 years our financial advisor has kept us in Roths vs deferred comp and they have outperformed deferred through all the highs and lows. We are not all finance experts, pay someone who is. Mine also wouldnt touch deferred with a 10' pole simply on the basis that it is run by the City and we all know how well City handles it own finances.
6/22/2017 10:51:00 PM
You're a fucking idiot, YOU manage the funds in DC....................ask your "finacial planner" dumbass
Relax, stay 8 more and enjoy the pension
Relax Detroit filed bankruptcy and the police and fire retirees never lost any pension benefits, Unfortunately other city workers did
6/22/2017 05:52:00 PM
not true. Everyone lost in federal court, but police and fire retirees lost the least %. The private creditors wanted to stick it in the cops butt but the judge prevented that from happening. There are no assurances that a federal judge would do the same if Chicago filed for bankruptcy. I see no way out of this for Chicago. They will own a billion just for the police pension fund, 1/2 billion for teachers and that is not even counting the other employees. And, that amount appears to be owned each year. The city cannot tax it way out of this. The pension funds have been underfunded for almost 30 years and have been bleeding principal which is what earns the money to pay pensions. In a few short years it is curtains and our pensions will be paid, but at a vastly reduced amount.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
the sears at 1601 N Harlem Ave, Chicago, IL will close
OMG, there goes our pension. Lol
Anonymous Anonymous said...
The pension will be fine? Whatta ya been smokin ? Oh, you are a CPS grad and you never even learned to use a calculator, I see.
6/22/2017 08:04:00 PM
Just read your comment about this guy and your comment about him not learning how to use a calculator is incorrect. Calculators are only used to add,subtract, NUMBERS. this article is full of estimates and projection. Basically this guy is guessing. Does he know how many po,s will be hired and paying into the pension, how Many will retire. No he doesn't. Does he know what the stock market will do the next 5 years , where interest rates will go no he doesn't. That and bond prices all affect the investments made by the pension fund
So he doesn't know how much the pension fund will make,how many will be paying in or how much the pension fund will be paying out but he knows when it's going under. His guess, my mistake his projection or estimate is 2021.
I missed the button on my calculation that says estimate or projection
What kind of response was that from the FOP???!! Nonsense
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Simple solution
End Gold Braid Pension
All Merit Retire at Pension of a Patrolman
End the 55 and out with free health insurance
Raise minimum age to 57 years and maximum to age 67
Model pension fund after IMRF which is funded 90%
No double dipping
6/22/2017 09:52:00 AM
Hey Einstein:
The 55 and out with free health care has already ended.
It's no longer free it's now 2% until the city tries to jack that up in the next contract.
Maybe I can be a merit promotee or study real hard for the next legit promotion exam to make up for the coming haircut in cpd pensions.
To "chicago owes more than it owns" tell me genius how many airports does Chicago own and how much is each worth? Answer: billions more than the pension obligations.
Take no IOUs from this city. The average cop has to ask whether what they are paid is going to be enough to take $500 from each paycheck to put into an IRA for retirement, if not you are chasing an illusion. This isn't the only city that needs experienced cops.
Hey Einstein:
The 55 and out with free health care has already ended.
It's no longer free it's now 2% until the city tries to jack that up in the next contract.
Not tries to, how much they will jack it up. Old timer here who learned when city took away the free healthcare for po's. first contract it was $2.00 a payday and most guys said it's only $2.00. I warned them about giving up past practices. Now look at what you are paying
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Relax, stay 8 more and enjoy the pension
Relax Detroit filed bankruptcy and the police and fire retirees never lost any pension benefits, Unfortunately other city workers did
6/22/2017 05:52:00 PM
not true. Everyone lost in federal court, but police and fire retirees lost the least %. The private creditors wanted to stick it in the cops butt but the judge prevented that from happening. There are no assurances that a federal judge would do the same if Chicago filed for bankruptcy. I see no way out of this for Chicago. They will own a billion just for the police pension fund, 1/2 billion for teachers and that is not even counting the other employees. And, that amount appears to be owned each year. The city cannot tax it way out of this. The pension funds have been underfunded for almost 30 years and have been bleeding principal which is what earns the money to pay pensions. In a few short years it is curtains and our pensions will be paid, but at a vastly reduced amount.
Below website and article shows police and fire kept their pension. The only thing that was changed was cola from 2.25% to 1%
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/wayne-county/2015/02/27/detroit-retirees-pension-cuts-become-reality/24156301/
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I really don't know finance, but wasn't this bound to happen? Besides the City not making their payments, once they started putting new hires into a 401k plan those members would not be contributing to the pension fund. Only active pension fund members and the City would then be contributing. At some point the collecting pensioners would outnumber those contributing, and in some unknown fashion the difference would have to be made up. The 55 and out accelerated the process, bringing it to a head years before expected. The chart in the article does not appear to even take into account that the new hires for the last few years aren't even paying into the fund. I would like to know what plan was in effect for this eventuality when they switched to the 401k for new hires
Where do you come up with this crap? No new hires are in a 401. They pay into the pension like any other po. The reason the article doesn't take into account that the new hires don't pay into the fund is because it's not true. They pay into the pension
Besides not knowing finance, you don't appear to know anything about the pension
There is only one long term solution ...
Golf
Tango
Foxtrot
Oscar
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Very afraid. I can see the city allowing the fund to go bankrupt. Then it will negotiate for a couple while no one gets paid, and then settle on giving retirees like 55 cents on the dollar. Coupled with the real possibility of Medicare not being there or being greatly reduced and the inability to pay for health insurance, I am very scared about where my wife and I will be beyond 10 years from now.
Calm down and don't think the worse. Enjoy your retirement. Some guy writes and article about the fund being bankrupted in 2021 and everyone buys into it, always thinking the worse. What about the law that was passed to have the fund up to 90% by 2055. I know the city has lied before and things are a little different that king Richard is gone.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
The pension will be fine? Whatta ya been smokin ? Oh, you are a CPS grad and you never even learned to use a calculator, I see.
6/22/2017 08:04:00 PM
---
Obviously I am not as retarded as you are. I have more than one advanced degree. I understand how governments work. You have a reading comprehension problem. Good luck to you.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
1.) If you are in deferred comp, get out now. For the last 15 years our financial advisor has kept us in Roths vs deferred comp and they have outperformed deferred through all the highs and lows. We are not all finance experts, pay someone who is. Mine also wouldnt touch deferred with a 10' pole simply on the basis that it is run by the City and we all know how well City handles it own finances.
6/22/2017 10:51:00 PM
You're a fucking idiot, YOU manage the funds in DC....................ask your "finacial planner" dumbass
6/23/2017 12:19:00 PM
I second that! Idiot! I'm doing just fine managing my deferred comp. Plenty of funds to choose from. Just do your own DD. Also it's not run by the city it's run by Nationwide. It's offered to city employees. The private sector also uses Nationwide. Your a dope!
I wouldn't be surprised if all we get back is what we put into the fund,someone needs to go to jail!
Not tries to, how much they will jack it up. Old timer here who learned when city took away the free healthcare for po's. first contract it was $2.00 a payday and most guys said it's only $2.00. I warned them about giving up past practices. Now look at what you are paying.
----------------------
Look what they are paying in the private sector pal.
Funny thing is the state is in trouble at the same time the pensions are in trouble interesting huh? Can't tax, your way out of a problem people are leaving now,this is all done by design.
If 19th Ward alderman Matt O'Shea has money for a pizza party with the blm movement the city has money for the pension.
I second that! Idiot! I'm doing just fine managing my deferred comp. Plenty of funds to choose from. Just do your own DD. Also it's not run by the city it's run by Nationwide. It's offered to city employees. The private sector also uses Nationwide. Your a dope!
6/23/2017 08:43:00 PM
I took out most of my money from Deferred and rolled it into a private managed fund, Schwab. I have done pretty well with it. I kept some in deferred because the fixed hovers around 3% and is pretty good for the bond part of my savings. Nationwide was hiding the management charges from us for many years until forced to reveal them by federal law. But, I think the city is only a few years away from bankruptcy as they can never fund the pensions, so I am thinking about taking the rest of my money out of deferred. I do not trust Rahm and the democrats.
1.) If you are in deferred comp, get out now. For the last 15 years our financial advisor has kept us in Roths vs deferred comp and they have outperformed deferred through all the highs and lows. We are not all finance experts, pay someone who is. Mine also wouldnt touch deferred with a 10' pole simply on the basis that it is run by the City and we all know how well City handles it own finances.
You know the real reason your "Financial guy" says deferred comp is bad? Because if you were in deferred comp he wouldn't be making any commissions. Wake up goof.
Not tries to, how much they will jack it up. Old timer here who learned when city took away the free healthcare for po's. first contract it was $2.00 a payday and most guys said it's only $2.00. I warned them about giving up past practices. Now look at what you are paying.
----------------------
Look what they are paying in the private sector pal.
We aren't in the public sector pal. Like comparing apples to oranges. How many in private sector get pensions?
My point was don't give up a benefit no matter how small it was at the time because you are opening the door for it to grow
Just tell us if the Exec board is gonna push for residency so I can get my house ready to sell!! Not CFD
There is only one long term solution ...
Golf
Tango
Foxtrot
Oscar
6/23/2017 06:16:00 PM
George
Thomas
Frank
Ocean
Adam
Henry
Get the Fuck Out A Here!
1.) If you are in deferred comp, get out now. For the last 15 years our financial advisor has kept us in Roths vs deferred comp and they have outperformed deferred through all the highs and lows. We are not all finance experts, pay someone who is. Mine also wouldnt touch deferred with a 10' pole simply on the basis that it is run by the City and we all know how well City handles it own finances.
You know the real reason your "Financial guy" says deferred comp is bad? Because if you were in deferred comp he wouldn't be making any commissions. Wake up goof.
You are right how else is the guy going to make money and this guy has the po believing his bs. You can get the same investments in both deferred and Rothschild. Ruth's and deferred differentiate only in when you pay taxes. Has nothing to do with investments.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
1.) If you are in deferred comp, get out now. For the last 15 years our financial advisor has kept us in Roths vs deferred comp and they have outperformed deferred through all the highs and lows. We are not all finance experts, pay someone who is. Mine also wouldnt touch deferred with a 10' pole simply on the basis that it is run by the City and we all know how well City handles it own finances.
You know the real reason your "Financial guy" says deferred comp is bad? Because if you were in deferred comp he wouldn't be making any commissions. Wake up goof.
The only correct thing the guy said was "we are not all financial experts". I don't he had to tell us that after writing that comment. Oh ignorance is bliss
I took out most of my money from Deferred and rolled it into a private managed fund, Schwab. I have done pretty well with it. I kept some in deferred because the fixed hovers around 3% and is pretty good for the bond part of my savings. Nationwide was hiding the management charges from us for many years until forced to reveal them by federal law. But, I think the city is only a few years away from bankruptcy as they can never fund the pensions, so I am thinking about taking the rest of my money out of deferred. I do not trust Rahm and the democrats.
Private managed funds have high fees and have never done better than the market, don't beat the market and underperform the market, but they know how to bs the client
Look up for the post about warren buffets bet with the managed fund manager. He kicked the managed fund managers ass. Buffet returned 854,000 to the managed account $222,000. The link is posted above on this post
http://www.businessinsider.com/vanguard-shines-in-protgs-1-million-bet-with-warren-buffett-2017-2
Read the above link and then tell me about your managed funds and financial advisors. Warren Buffet is the 3rd richest man in the world
Read the paragraphs at the last few paragraphs. You will be surprised at the sesults
warren buffett 2006
David Silverman/Getty Images
Protégé Partners has likely found itself on the losing end of a $1 million bet with Berkshire Hathaway chairman Warren Buffett after a group of hedge funds it selected failed to beat a Vanguard Group index fund for almost a decade.
The outcome of the wager, which concludes at the end of this year, is the latest reminder of the momentum that low-cost passive investing has gained since the financial crisis. Investors have increasingly favored index funds, which track benchmarks, over paying higher fees to money managers who make active picks in the stock and bond markets.
Buffett, a billionaire investor and outspoken critic of fund managers who profit from high fees at the expense of their clients, bet in 2007 that a Vanguard S&P 500 index fund would beat five funds of hedge funds selected by Protégé Partners over the next 10 years. Buffett laid out evidence in his 2017 annual letter to Berkshire Hathaway shareholders that he's set to win the wager as none of the funds outperformed the index fund from 2008 through 2016.
Jeffrey Tarrant, founder and CEO of Protégé Partners, an asset manager based in New York, didn't immediately return a phone call seeking comment.
The $3 trillion hedge fund industry, which has been struggling to outperform stock and bond markets, could see assets shrink by as much as 30 percent in the next three years if performance continues to disappoint, according to a report this month from Boston Consulting Group. By contrast, Vanguard, whose name is synonymous with index funds, attracted more money from investors in 2016 than all mutual funds and exchange-traded funds combined, preliminary data from Morningstar earlier this month showed.
"Though there are thousands of professional investment managers who have amassed staggering fortunes by touting their stock-selecting prowess, only one man - Ted Seides - stepped up to my challenge," Buffet said in his letter, signed Feb. 25.
Seides was then co-manager of Protégé Partners, a fund-of-funds firm that focuses on emerging hedge fund managers. The Oracle of Omaha said in his letter that the five funds Seides selected had invested their money in more than 100 hedge funds, which meant the results wouldn't be "distorted" by the performance of a single manager.
"I hadn't known Ted before our wager, but I like him and admire his willingness to put his money where his mouth was," Buffett said. "He has been both straight-forward with me and meticulous in supplying all the data that both he and I have needed to monitor the bet."
Seides, who left Protégé in 2015 and is now a managing partner at Hidden Brook Investments, said in an email that he couldn't comment on the bet because technically it belongs to Protégé.
According to Buffett, the five funds-of-funds gained 2.2 percent on an compounded annual basis in the nine years through 2016. "That means $1 million invested in those funds would have gained $220,000," he said. "The index fund would meanwhile have gained $854,000."
If your on pension, you'll be OK, but if your not, you my friend may never enjoy a pension.
I'm surprised a Post like this has less than 200 responses...Cops are always little Naïve when it comes to Big Finance though...I thought this would strike a nerve, and it has passed with nary a blip on the radar.
SCC...Perhaps it time to renew this thread. Put it back at the top. I'm sure there are evil doers here which would have this story go away.
But the Managed Funds are run by the politically connected ( Ariel Funds as an example). That is the main reason for managed funds. Out performing the indexes is a very difficult business unless you are a very good trader.
old retired guy
The problem is that the pension fund has never been funded properly, the political class would much rather spend $ on things that have political benefit between now and the next election cycle.This is a national problem, none of the police/fire organization have the clout to make the local politicians do what they need to do. The president of FOP recently said the the pension is in good shape,is funding at 30% of obligations good shape? The only thing that could make any meaningful change would be federally mandated guidelines that the local POL couldn't get around, to do that you would need: 1. standard accounting for all public pensions 2. A mandated schedule that would bring funding to 80% level. 3. That unless and until the above is accomplished pension would be first in line as to creditors (meaning pensioners get theirs first over other debt, if the pension wasn't stable the bean counters would hammer the city when it came time to get a loan, that else could hold their feet to the fire?
City will be fine. Chicago Tribune business section today states there are around 20 megadevelopments going up in Chicago. Investors don't invest that kind of money in a dying city. Don't worry about Chicago, it's no Detroit
Post a Comment
<< Home