Equipment Failure
- When seconds mattered during the Mercy Hospital shooting, a SWAT team member’s M4 rifle malfunctioned, CBS 2 has learned. Mercy Hospital was a chaotic scene one month ago when gunman Juan Lopez opened fire outside and then in the lobby. Police responded in minutes, but Lopez had already killed Dr. Tamara O’Neal, Dr. Dayna Less and Chicago Police Officer Samuel Jiminez.
[...] There was a gunfight, and at that moment, a SWAT team member’s M4 rifle jammed, Tim Grace, attorney for Chicago’s Fraternal Order of Police says. Grace says, “There is no doubt. There is empirical evidence. The weapon did jam. He had to clear the jam before he could take the offender out.” He did in seconds, then shot and killed Lopez.
But the M4 malfunction concerns Grace and the FOP, who state they’re troubled by the possibility officers were equipped with inferior weapons. Sources tell CBS 2 many of the Chicago Police Department’s issued M4 rifles are made up of used parts. Many are older rifles. And Grace says considering SWAT officers fire 6,000 to 10,000 rounds per year to remain sharp, the wear and tear on used parts could be problematic.
No parts available for replacement? Failing to follow manufacturer recommended maintenance?
If true, would anyone be surprised? The previous FOP slate felt it necessary to make new cars part of the Contract instead of relying on an actual maintenance schedule that would prolong the life of existing equipment. We've even heard from numerous SWAT personnel that the MRAP vehicle is down more than up due to lack of parts/maintenance. Why not cut corners on rifles? It's not like anyone would go shoot up a hospital or anything.
If true, would anyone be surprised? The previous FOP slate felt it necessary to make new cars part of the Contract instead of relying on an actual maintenance schedule that would prolong the life of existing equipment. We've even heard from numerous SWAT personnel that the MRAP vehicle is down more than up due to lack of parts/maintenance. Why not cut corners on rifles? It's not like anyone would go shoot up a hospital or anything.
Labels: department issues
posted by SCC at 12:05 AM
160 Comments:
They should add that loaner guns come from ERPS destroy piles. AKA street guns getting repurposed. So after you get in a shooting they give you one of these loaner guns. Which no one knows the maintenance or the history.
All true ask anyone who knows.
Most of not all swat guys have their own tricked out rifles not department rifles.
Relax. Our own Superintendent said SWAT wasn't even needed a couple of months ago. They will probably just disband the unit and equip the Howdy Doody Sgt. on steroids with rocket launchers and Gatling guns in case anything goes wrong. As has been stated on this blog before, Special Ed is the worst Supernintendo this department has ever had of all time. Reason number #3245 why I can't wait to retire.
So swat shoots thousands of rounds a year through their rifles alone and patrol gets 30 rounds a year pistol weather they need it or not. This year I have spent more time being trained in transgender etiquette than marksmanship.
Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Old story, move along
It is a well known fact in the Chicago police department, if you want equipment that works, the officer is got to be able to spend his own money to purchase good equipment that works. Fucking city and FOP been knowing this for ages, the politicos and brass just turn a blind eye to everything from old computers that are not even updated at all and are very vulnerable to hackers. How about the brand spanken new vehicles that are given to the politicos and brass first and then they go to the districts, this shit been going on for ages. Now they talkin about M4's malfunctioning, how many times as a carbine operator myself have told the FOP, brass, range instructors and anybody else that has an ear to hear you out, nobody gives a fuck. Half of these so called range instructor clowns are not even properly trained to even find the malfunction in these carbines and most of these goofs are there because of that time old clout or in better words it's who you know. The entire training division of the Chicago police Department is made up of clowns er officers that for the most part have not seen the streets in a decade or more, yet they train the recruits to good standards, shittttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt, you kidding me. FOP, Brass and the stinking politicos know it, been knowing forever but just don't give a fuck. And on the subject of firing these things, any retard with half a brain can properly aim, shoot and even clear a malfunction from these murderous weapons of mass destruction(liberal/democratic talk,LOL)with a little bit of practice like anything else on this job. Lost track, the bottom line is that nobody gives a fuck in the upper chain of command. Enough said, now let me go back to watching "Training Day" on the department phone and before anybody says anything about that, I don't give a fuck either. Peace my brothers and sisters in blue, fuck the white shirts, LOL..............
I’d be willing to bet the under on 10k rounds annual as far as training, and from what it sounds like, more than likely even under 6k. For an M4 to malfunction outside of a desert combat environment (routine maintenance applies regardless), you’re looking at an overloaded magazine (likely). If your mag is good for 30 rounds, only load 28. Some magazine brands are better than others and regardless you need to let the springs stretch from time to time so if no rounds are expelled for a few days, unload and reload to allow the springs to stretch.
Also, check that bolt and firing pin for carbon buildup as if it’s not a magazine loading issue, then it’s likely a maintenance issue — the worst kind of incompetence leads to these. Though, from what the write-up sounds like, a simple tap-rack-bang did the trick leading back to a feed issue from the mag.
Tell your boys to fix their shit. The attempt to blame lack of parts is a farce.
Would you take out a department pistol every day that other guys use? No. So why do guys take out these m4 department rifles that are abused? You make good money, go buy your own rifle...
There should be lots of guns, or parts for guns available from the last batch of "buy backs". No shortage of cash being spent on guns there.
How about we get away from the ridiculously soft order that mandates rifles must be carried WITHOUT a round in the chamber? You don't carry your service weapon without a round in the chamber, the rifle should be no different. Then again, it might be a safety precaution based on the fact that our rifle racks are garbage, and could potentially cause a weapon to bump-fire. There is a university police department in the city limits (I won't say which) which has top notch rifle racks, and its officers are subsequently mandated to carry their rifles WITH a round chambered. The constant re-chambering and clearing of the rifle just isn't practical and increases the probability for a malfunction dramatically. I had a rifle-trained partner lose a rifle round after a footchase because he had chambered a round before we got out of the car to assist and then had the round drop down a sewer when he ejected it once the scene was secure.
Whoever you are kid, if you are reading this, THANK YOU! YOU saved a lot of LIVES that day. And thank you, to all other SWAT members and police officers on scene, for your professionalism and for keeping us safe on that horrible day.
Any firearm can jam. Making mountains out of molehills?
Rifles are a reminder that some people are bad. Liberals don't like that, hence, low priority on maintenance.
Any firearm can jam. Making mountains out of molehills?
------
One rifle, sure
Two rifles, unlikely
Eight rifles, all with the same "malfunction" and all from one single SWAT unit?
Training, maintenance, or outright neglect. If any of those events, then everyone from trainer to armorer to chain-of-command needs to go.
Anonymous said...
Most of not all swat guys have their own tricked out rifles not department rifles.
No we dont. Not true.
What is going on swat?
-Malfunctioning rifles because they are at least 20 years old.
-Ten rifles issued to us that would have malfunctioned, like the one did at Mercy.
-Lieutenant that has been promoted beyond his capabilities.
-Number 2 that made 250k last year and is the one of worst operators on the team.
-OT initiatives that do zero but check a box.
-Poorly trained Instructors that lead to poorly trained swat officers.
-Hardly any training because we the new guys have to rotate and man three watches.
-Poorly maintained equipment and now the team is missing at least 10 firearms that were loaned to us by ERPS.
-Back stabbing between team members concerning overtime initiatives.
08 rifles were issued and found to be defective. Next news story is about Swat missing 8 handguns and one shotgun. IAD investigating.
Spent 4 years as military police and seen this at least a handful of times at the range with m4s everyone would soak their rifle with CLP prior to qualifying. Any weapon can jam and the m4 isn't exctly known for its reliability especially if it's government owned
OT but a reminder to watch out for each other:
https://people.com/crime/florida-deputy-sheriff-kills-family-kills-himself-in-front-officers/?hid=fb38e2f127386fbaa11567a58211af5d8ac7ab6e&did=320617-20181220&utm_campaign=true-crime_newsletter&utm_source=people.com&utm_medium=email&utm_content=122018&cid=320617&mid=17160154800
Deputy killed his whole family, then himself. And radioed it in before he pulled the trigger.
Anonymous said...
Any firearm can jam. Making mountains out of molehills?
------
One rifle, sure
Two rifles, unlikely
Eight rifles, all with the same "malfunction" and all from one single SWAT unit?
Training, maintenance, or outright neglect. If any of those events, then everyone from trainer to armorer to chain-of-command needs to go.
12/21/2018 04:45:00 AM
It is obvious you are in the know. You are very correct. Eight rifles did jam with the same malfunction. That’s what happens when you forget about the feeding ramps and are building rifles from old parts. Heads should roll but these young swat guys are just plain stupid believing what Tom and John feed them. Rifle Committee? Let’s throw a party. Yippee. Get some time on the job you snot nose punks. Learn how to do a room entry and shut the fuck up. You little bitches on the team would sell out your mother’s for a shiny object. We could have been killed because this SWAT team has been neglected for the last ten years.
People listen up, this swat team has very little training and experience. We are experts at sitting at sporting venues playing on our phones and talking to girls while making time and a half. We suck because this new generation of coppers has no clue what a real swat team is like. We back stab each other concerning the overtime. I recommend Patrol you step up your game cause we will fuck up the situation even worse.
“Fire 6 to 10,000 rounds a year?” LOL! No we don’t.
The city’s mantra “we dont have a contract for that”
Wow, sounds like “Mike” and a few others know everything about m4’s and the current swat load out. We need you. Hope you Passed the swat tryout so you could straighten our shit out.
Anonymous said...
Whoever you are kid, if you are reading this, THANK YOU! YOU saved a lot of LIVES that day. And thank you, to all other SWAT members and police officers on scene, for your professionalism and for keeping us safe on that horrible day.
12/21/2018 02:52:00 AM
Agreed! From what I’ve heard, this kid is a sharpshooter. Everyone likes to talk shit about SWAT and how all they do is train and work out all the time. But, this kid did save a lot of lives that day. Can we all stop talking shit and support each other? The department has different functions that someone has to perform, so there has to be someone to train to be a sharpshooter, go buy drugs undercover, etc. Are some of them arrogant? Yes. But so are some beat coppers. There are enough citizens and politicians who don’t support us, we need to support each other no matter what unit someone works in. We are all on the same team. He had a malfunction, it happens. The important thing is that he cleared it quickly and did what needed to be done. One copper was killed that day. It may have been more if not for this SWAT kid.
It was a bad round. The city purchased a bad batch of ammo and the guys in 353 have been saying so for over a year. That being said they need better rifles, pistols and vehicles. I was there for a few years. The rumors are all BS. Good group of men.
Thank God Swat was there. They handled their business that day
You'd have to be nuts to trust your life to a department-issued gun.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
How about we get away from the ridiculously soft order that mandates rifles must be carried WITHOUT a round in the chamber? You don't carry your service weapon without a round in the chamber, the rifle should be no different. Then again, it might be a safety precaution based on the fact that our rifle racks are garbage, and could potentially cause a weapon to bump-fire. There is a university police department in the city limits (I won't say which) which has top notch rifle racks, and its officers are subsequently mandated to carry their rifles WITH a round chambered. The constant re-chambering and clearing of the rifle just isn't practical and increases the probability for a malfunction dramatically. I had a rifle-trained partner lose a rifle round after a footchase because he had chambered a round before we got out of the car to assist and then had the round drop down a sewer when he ejected it once the scene was secure.
12/21/2018 02:25:00 AM
On a gun that your life depends on, never re-chamber a round. Relegate it to practice only.
All rifles should be test fired at a range prior to tour of duty
Why is CPadveven allowed to carry rifles. Their very presence is likely to upset the fragile community members. Lord knows we cannot have the community members upset, they might stop voting Democratic. Get rid of ALL CPD long guns ASAP.
This is news? CPD equipment not working?
Were they using substandard ammo?
AR type rifles works very well when properly maintained with proper ammunition. My personel AR is a Colt SP 1 made in 1970 and is well used without a problem.
A juicy news article is what this is .... “Training, maintenance, or outright neglect.” More likely the culprits and if that rifle has had such a catastrophic malfunction in the past, you should’ve moved to a different weapon or shelled out some cash. It’s only your life and others we’re talking bout here. No side arm to transition to either?? SWAT can stick to looking cool. I wil stick to looking better in my beat car.
We didn't even have a clean set of beat tags for over a year. Plenty of money for the in car video and bwc's. I wish I still had a copy of the pax 501 which possum head weis sent out when the in car video started. These are for officer safety only and will not be used to discipline officers.
Unless involves golf or golf clubs the FOP doesn’t care right cooter
For years our motor maintainance department has tried to fix many things in house that should have been sent out. The MRAP is made by Chrysler for the military and should be sent back to whom ever diesel repair shop that can repair it. Nobody has any in site to these vehicles since the Greek Sergeant hit mandatory retirement age.it is amazing how much money gets wasted. NAPA charges discounted prices but budget gets charged full retail price. There should be an investigation into motor maintainance.Back in 2011 SWAT had money for a new Command van but the money was sten to build a new super secret intelligence room on the 5th floor at 35th street. SWAT needs a separate budget for its equipment and yes they need new weapons and much new equipment.This town thinks that we have no threats against us and likes to operate on the edge. LT.Lamb and Sgt. Hroma need to go, they are the biggest issue with that unit. I have been in Swat for a long time but it is EMBARRASSING.
Would you take out a department pistol every day that other guys use? No. So why do guys take out these m4 department rifles that are abused? You make good money, go buy your own rifle...
12/21/2018 01:49:
But we look good on Instagram and Facebook. Doesn’t matter if our carbines work.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
So swat shoots thousands of rounds a year through their rifles alone and patrol gets 30 rounds a year pistol weather they need it or not. This year I have spent more time being trained in transgender etiquette than marksmanship.
Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.
12/21/2018 12:36:00 AM
No we don’t shoot thousand of rounds a year unless you are the steroid freak sgt. He would steal the team’s ammo to go practice his competition shooting. That’s a lie. Shhhhh. We barely meet the NTOA standards for a part time team.
Relax. Our own Superintendent said SWAT wasn't even needed a couple of months ago. They will probably just disband the unit and equip the Howdy Doody Sgt. on steroids with rocket launchers and Gatling guns in case anything goes wrong. As has been stated on this blog before, Special Ed is the worst Supernintendo this department has ever had of all time. Reason number #3245 why I can't wait to retire.
Sgt ML or “Howdy Doody” was thrown off the SWAT team.
1) Was in charge of training that sent a P.O. to the hospital with a collapsed lung.
2) “Roid” rage incident in Lake County
3) Continued serial stalking and harassment of women.
at some point a LEO has to be responsible for their own equipment. Mechanics buy their own tools, construction workers also buy their own tools. even teachers use their own money to decorate their classrooms.
So if you need new parts for a firearm that could make the difference in you returning home to your family at night or waiting on the city to pay for it, I hope you would know what to do.
Sounds like the M16 from Vietnam. I would have thought any fault with that weapon system would have been solved by now. Perhaps they should go with the AK 47 if they want a weapon that can be depended on.
A good response to the problem SWAT, no-matter the cause, You saved lives!!
PS, ED and others that think we do not need SWAT how do you feel now?
Now now, you just don't understand how things work in the City. See, spare parts cost money. So if you have SPARE parts, then they're just laying around, probably not needed, might get lost. And all the time they cost money.
Money which could be inside a nice fat envelope.
Do we understand each other?
Good. We'll get ya the parts if something goes wrong, but these are precision pieces of machinery - it's pretty rare now days that anything goes wrong.
Here's a campaign button for ya and a free ticket to the Holiday Dinner! I can rely on yous for some petitions right?
Thanks!
This department literally does EVERYTHING ON THE CHEAP, PATHETIC!!!
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Any firearm can jam. Making mountains out of molehills?
How would you feel Mr Mole if it was your rifle that jammed when confronted with an armed offender?
Any firearm can jam. Making mountains out of molehills?
------
One rifle, sure
Two rifles, unlikely
Eight rifles, all with the same "malfunction" and all from one single SWAT unit?
Training, maintenance, or outright neglect. If any of those events, then everyone from trainer to armorer to chain-of-command needs to go.
12/21/2018 04:45:00 AM
Who is to blame?
Eric Carter (Step it)
Darren Doss (Fetch it)
Tom Lamb (The Dumb Blond)
John Hroma (Friendly Fire Johnny)
Matt Little (Carrot Top)
Training Staff (The Clown Show)
cleared a malfunction and engaged and put down the threat; Id say job well done sir.
It’s reassuring knowing that the armorer has clout when it comes to maintaining department firearms.
Half of these so called range instructor clowns are not even properly trained to even find the malfunction in these carbines and most of these goofs are there because of that time old clout or in better words it's who you know. The entire training division of the Chicago police Department is made up of clowns er officers that for the most part have not seen the streets in a decade or more, yet they train the recruits to good standards, shittttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt, you kidding me. FOP, Brass and the stinking politicos know it, been knowing forever but just don't give a fuck. And on the subject of firing these things, any retard with half a brain can properly aim, shoot and even clear a malfunction from these murderous weapons of mass destruction(liberal/democratic talk,LOL)with a little bit of practice like anything else on this job. Lost track, the bottom line is that nobody gives a fuck in the upper chain of command. Enough said, now let me go back to watching "Training Day" on the department phone and before anybody says anything about that, I don't give a fuck either. Peace my brothers and sisters in blue, fuck the white shirts, LOL..............
12/21/2018 01:17:00 AM
WOW, Are we lucky to have a know it all like you to set us straight. Thank G-d you are available to point out that ALL instructors are clowns and fuck all white shirts. You are the gift that we need in policing! Guys (or maybe you are a girl) like you make me sick. Its people like you who are pretenders. Pretending that you know everything there is to know about everything involved in policing. Im surprised that every major law enforcement agency in the world isnt knocking down your door for your expertise.
Why dont you crawl back in mommies basement and STFU.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
So swat shoots thousands of rounds a year through their rifles alone and patrol gets 30 rounds a year pistol weather they need it or not. This year I have spent more time being trained in transgender etiquette than marksmanship.
Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.
12/21/2018 12:36:00 AM
If you are so concerned about your firearms training why dont you wisely spend some of your uniform allowance and go to a private range and practice or get some instruction from one of the experts there??? Just asking
Far too many variables involved to be concluding that there is one only one source of the malfunction, including the source of the story. Don’t go off half cocked on this one.
I took the carbine class way back when it first started. I remember the instructors saying in regards to department supplied rifles, "do you really want to rely on equipment provided by the city that your life may depend on? If you have the means purchase your own."
“considering SWAT officers fire 6,000 to 10,000 rounds.”
Blah. Blah. Blah. They must be talking about some other swat team. I’ve been here for two years and I’ve never fired that many rounds. Trump is right about fake news.
They should add that loaner guns come from ERPS destroy piles. AKA street guns getting repurposed. So after you get in a shooting they give you one of these loaner guns. Which no one knows the maintenance or the history.
All true ask anyone who knows.
They did get loaner guns from ERPS. Ten of them were stolen from
area 4. Wait till that story hits. The shit show continues.
Dump Lamb and Hroma.
Great job clearing and re-engaging, in high stress this is evidence of good training.
Anonymous said...
Relax. Our own Superintendent said SWAT wasn't even needed a couple of months ago. They will probably just disband the unit and equip the Howdy Doody Sgt. on steroids with rocket launchers and Gatling guns in case anything goes wrong. As has been stated on this blog before, Special Ed is the worst Supernintendo this department has ever had of all time. Reason number #3245 why I can't wait to retire.
12/21/2018 12:23:00 AM
S.W.A.T, who needs them? Just promote more suckhole, mindless exempts already...
Clean and lubricate! Replace mag springs as needed...... Not hard at all and it is the operators responsibility to ensure his weapon works. With that said, jams can happen. 28 in the mag, not 30.
10,000 rounds a year is kind of a lot, if that's true. A couple years of that is a lot of wear and tear on the rifle.
Anyway, for anyone looking at signing up for the carbine class and getting your own, I will give a big THUMBS DOWN to Stag Arms. They charged my card and forgot to mention that their Black Friday rifles were not in stock. three weeks go by and finally I get a shipment notification. The day it's supposed to get delivered to my FFL I check the shipment number on UPS and it says that Stag Arms is requesting the package be returned to sender. I called customer service and a very sarcastic lady informed me that someone in our Cook Co. Sheriff's office called them personally to inform them (after the firearm was already shipped to the dealer) that nobody in Cook County was allowed to have any of their products. She clearly meant law enforcement also (not that I necessarily believe that that makes me super special) because I informed her that Stag Arms was one of the approved manufacturers for CPD and she responded with a very snarky well we're not selling to anyone in your county.
Sorry for the rant, but I just had to let people know who doesn't appreciate our business.
Does CPD have an Armorer to check and maintain firearms?
One rifle malfunction at least for me, doesn't make the case for faulty equipment. You're talking many possibilities without even examining the facts or evidence. Was the malfunction caused by faulty ammo, bad magazine, a badly maintained rifle; these are just a few examples of things that could go wrong. An example of bad ammo, I just purchased 150 rounds of American Eagle, first ten rounds shot perfect, then on the 11 shot, misfire. Cleared the round and observed the primer had been hit without the round going off. Just for my own curiosity, I re-chambered the round and attempted to see if it would fire. It did not, however, my point is lets first see what and examination of that rifle reals.
Some years ago the Academy requested the serial numbers of carbines in the districts for inventory. The carbines were removed from the racks, and when personnel from one South Side district tried to return them to the racks,they found that carbines would not fit could not be locked and secured. AR-style carbines are the most common long guns used by police departments in this country-wouldn't it be a simple matter for the city to purchase a quality rifle rack of proven design from a legitimate manufacturer? Or did the city contract some guy who jerry-rigged them from angle iron he had lying around?
Weapons jam. That's why we train for it. I commend the officer for getting the job done, and dropping the perp. They should give a medal. I'm not second guessing anyone here, but in a tense situation, the initial chambering may have been soft. The M-4 weapon needs periodic lube, and a "deliberate" chambering requiring the charging handle to be pulled back ALL the way, and let to snap back. The forward assist is then tapped to ensure chamber is in full battery as an extra measure. If these things aren't done, the likelihood of a misfire increases. If the weapon was configured with a soft buffer/return spring, things like that can happen when the chamber is not carried in a loaded condition. If it was a magazine malfunction, which I doubt, the aftermarket is loaded with magazines that function better than when the weapon was designed. and they are about 10 bucks a piece. Some have covers to protect the top round from being compromised. Use them if you unload your weapon in off duty hours a lot. The first round is most susceptible to accidental damage. Check you ammo routinely.
Parts for these weapons have never been cheaper than right now. Officers if your weapon needs new parts, most dealers give the Police a discount. Do what you need to do to see your family again. Don't rely on the City of Chicago to provide you with what you really need. Seconds count in a confrontation, and we came out on top this time. That's all that matters.
I'm willing to bet that this weapon was not properly maintained and/or cleaned on nay kind of regular basis. I know Feds tend to get a bad rap here (some of it deserved), but there are some things we did right. One of them was the way we handled our firearms training. We were not allowed to leave the firing range before fully cleaning and oiling our weapons and performing a dry-fire maintenance check on them to ensure they worked properly. If you properly care for your weapon system, it will perform. If you don't, then you are playing Russian Roulette with your own life.
And don't even get me started on how short-sighted it is in how little the CPD invests in on-board officer firearms training. 30 rounds a year is a disgrace for a big-city department like the CPD. The CPD officers on my old Task Force would participate in our quarterly firearms training and couldn't believe that we all shot, at a minimum, 200-250 rounds per quarter on a variety of stationary and moving targets with a variety of wen systems. The CPD officers thought they died and went to heaven when they shot with us on our courses. And no Fed has to pay for his own ammo! Why the FOP doesn't make the CPD's inadequate firearms training a bigger issue is beyond me.
Take care of your weapons like your life depends on it... Because it does!!!
OT Watching the funeral. Shout out to chs. 9 & 32 for broadcasting it. All the others can pound sand.
Observations. Boy is our exempt group a rogues gallery of misfits.
After the family and friends of the officer, the Supe, commander of the officer, mayor and governor, the rest of the rogues gallery should be last in the church. The district of the officer then actual blue shirts from the department should be in first.
RIP brother.
"Any firearm can jam. Making mountains out of molehills?"
My colt python 357 never jammed.
I doubt the rifle failed...the amunition probably did...it happens..tap rack bang...carry on on
Please get the facts before you post incorrect info. Swat is issued department rifles. Mostly 15-29 year old rifles, but issued . FrankenM4s. Now with fresh Dremel tool marks to try and get them to work. The Lamb authorized a guy, not an armorer to Dremel the feed ramps. Major wrongful death lawsuit waiting to happen. Tom, can you say punitive damages. All you merit promotion pay going to pay punitive damages, the irony.
If there were no BANS on these weapons, parts would be plentiful and cheap and easily available....Count this problem as added to the others on the long list of "Only Ones Premise Failures" that so many to this day try to deny and pretend isn't growing longer and costing more lives every single day.
No Citizen, no Laborer, no Waitress, no Accountant and certainly no Police Officer should EVER be relegated to substandard arms because of government interference, ever! That is yet another point made in our Second Amendment.
Before this gets all blown out of proportion, the SWAT officer made statements that he knew the rifle has issues.
-Did it ever get reported?
-Did the Dept ignore it?
-Did he have an alternative?
-Was it his own?
Changes are coming...an not for the better.
But will it all come without someone being held accountable?
the anti defamation league is a police hater organization
It all boils down to the operator. If they are using a gun and are too last or dumb to recognize that their weapon is in poor shape ten they have no business being in the position they are in. Shame on you if you knowingly take a gun that you recognize to be in poor working condition. Besides, ALL swat guys use their own rifles that they purchase and outfit themselves so this story has some holes in it and is being fed because of the ongoing negotiations between swat and the city. If you take out a faulty or unclean gun then it’s on you and you alone. I shed no tears for guys ina cake unit on this department who feel the need to whine. Clearly they were never in the military or if they were I’m assuming they were in the Air Force.. clearly not Marines!
Anonymous Anonymous said...
So swat shoots thousands of rounds a year through their rifles alone and patrol gets 30 rounds a year pistol weather they need it or not. This year I have spent more time being trained in transgender etiquette than marksmanship.
Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Lawsuit? been 30 rounds a year for decades. If it sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen and you feels valid, file the lawsuit
Small Town Cops with Commonsense:
https://www.al.com/news/2018/12/alabama-police-department-blames-satan-for-spike-in-homicides.html
I have personal knowledge that this officers rifle jamned due to a fault primer. The city of Chicago has already quietly changed out ammunition vendors. To little to late!
Does the department still have an armorer? I know for a while they did not appoint one, used the slot for a gofer instead. The armorer, who is appointed to the slot, is responsible for all department weapons and has to be highly qualified and needs to keep updated on all weapons used by the department. Of course, this means spending some money for the travel and tuition for these courses.
Honest questions:
- Does the SWAT team have to use department rifles, or can they use their own (presumably better maintained) rifles?
- Was this a department or a officer-owned rifle?
- Isn't a jam a somewhat normal event with the M4?
- I know that on some Youtube channels I have seen concerns about the reliability of the M16/AR15/M4 in action?
- Would SWAT be better served with another rifle?
Anonymous Anonymous said...
So swat shoots thousands of rounds a year through their rifles alone and patrol gets 30 rounds a year pistol weather they need it or not. This year I have spent more time being trained in transgender etiquette than marksmanship.
Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Swat shoots thousands of rounds a year? If you say so.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Any firearm can jam. Making mountains out of molehills?
Great answer by a person who has very little knowledge. No doubt it’s a white shirt.
Superintendent said we don't need swat. So just disband the unit.
I do not understand why each swat officer does not have their own m-4? Not a department m-4 but their own registered rifle. In my district there are rifle trained officers carrying Daniel Defense rifles. Give the swat officers a weapon allowance to keep their stuff maintained or replaced. When my pistol magazines fail, I buy new ones.
SCC... thought the turn out was a little light. Let’s try and stir up our boys and girls in blue to come out tomorrow.
Thank you
shittttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt, you kidding me. FOP, Brass and the stinking politicos know it, been knowing forever but just don't give a fuck. And on the subject of firing these things, any retard with half a brain can properly aim, shoot and even clear a malfunction from these murderous weapons of mass destruction(liberal/democratic talk,LOL)with a little bit of practice like anything else on this job. Lost track, the bottom line is that nobody gives a fuck in the upper chain of command. Enough said, now let me go back to watching "Training Day" on the department phone and before anybody says anything about that, I don't give a fuck either. Peace my brothers and sisters in blue, fuck the white shirts, LOL..............
12/21/2018 01:17:00 AM
I'm not sure where to start, but if this reads anything like a narrative on your case reports, I know why you hate white shirts. They don't care for you either.
I'm not sure why anyone would go through the process of getting certified on the rifle and not spend the money to get one of your own. To make it your own. There is no excuse for going into a dangerous situation with a rifle that you don't have 100% faith in. The only way you can get that confidence is to shoot and train with that rifle.
OT hey scc have you noticed that the cook county sheriff blog has been shutdown. Guess toupee tommy couldn't handle the criticism
There was a time when the department required semi-auto pistols to be carried with an empty chamber also. One of the dumbest rules they ever had and took a while before it was changed.
Ret 177
Start with replacing the SWAT sergeants. They are constantly malfunctioning!
Would you take out a department pistol every day that other guys use? No. So why do guys take out these m4 department rifles that are abused? You make good money, go buy your own rifle...
12/21/2018 01:49:00 AM
Yeah, except when you retire, you must give it up if you continue to live in this "great" city of ours. Read the assault weapon order S04-26-11. Maybe if the city would buy it back at my cost when I retired, otherwise forget it; they really don't want you to have one.
Why not used parts???? It's not like they dont do that with the PDTs or anything.
Call the radio shop ask how they get fixed; we did during one of our PDT audits, because more than 1/2 of ours were in the shop.
If you fuck up your keyboard, they wait until one with a broken screen comes in, put the keyboard from that one on yours, and throw away the broken screen. You think that other district that had the broken screen will ever get theirs back? HA! Cause now it has no screen or keyboard!
There are no spare PDTs, only cannibalized parts. Eventually they will run out of them and go crying that they need new equipment only to realize that new PDTs won't fit the current mounts, so they have to buy those too. It's the city way.
Vanecko Reconditioned Rifles.
Anonymous Mike said...
If your mag is good for 30 rounds, only load 28. Some magazine brands are better than others and regardless you need to let the springs stretch from time to time so if no rounds are expelled for a few days, unload and reload to allow the springs to stretch.
- - - - -
How often do you loosen the valve springs in your car to allow the "springs to stretch?" What about all the rest of the springs in the gun? Do you take them out to let them sleep on the table for a few days?
Old wives tales. Properly made springs don't take a set or need to stretch. Repeated cycling is what wears out springs.
A weapons stoppage (I hate using the term "jam") isn't a totally uncommon experience with any weapon, and it can occur due to a lot of reasons. Many times it isn't a weapon problem so much as an ammunition problem that causes the stoppage.
All officers I'm sure are trained to take immediate action to clear the stoppage and resume firing their weapon, and if the weapon continues to malfunction they should switch to their backup weapon, more than likely their handgun.
Given Chicago's current financial state, I'm not totally surprised that they would be issuing their SWAT team older equipment, and in the end that is perhaps something that should be addressed. There are other very capable rifles available that may better suit their needs in term of reliability and durability, but having a weapon "jam" happens. About the only thing you can do, regardless of the type of weapon you carry, is to be prepared.
Thought those guys all bought their own fancy rifles? Some guys I know (regular beat guys) have spent over two grand on their own guns.
Freaking design flaw, would you buy a car that comes with built in jumper cables hanging off the front bumper, didn’t think so. AR-15, M-4, M-16, would never buy that toy...any gun you have to design in with a flaw “bolt forward assist” function is a poorly designed gun. Period.
...HK 416 5.56mm..very reliable..
Anonymous Mike said...
I’d be willing to bet the under on 10k rounds annual as far as training, and from what it sounds like, more than likely even under 6k. For an M4 to malfunction outside of a desert combat environment (routine maintenance applies regardless), you’re looking at an overloaded magazine (likely). If your mag is good for 30 rounds, only load 28. Some magazine brands are better than others and regardless you need to let the springs stretch from time to time so if no rounds are expelled for a few days, unload and reload to allow the springs to stretch.
Also, check that bolt and firing pin for carbon buildup as if it’s not a magazine loading issue, then it’s likely a maintenance issue — the worst kind of incompetence leads to these. Though, from what the write-up sounds like, a simple tap-rack-bang did the trick leading back to a feed issue from the mag.
Tell your boys to fix their shit. The attempt to blame lack of parts is a farce.
Your comment proves you have no idea what you're talking about. Let me guess. Your prior military so you think you know everything about the AR platform. Let the springs stretch? Lmao put your helmet back on and go back to licking windows.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Far too many variables involved to be concluding that there is one only one source of the malfunction, including the source of the story. Don’t go off half cocked on this one.
12/21/2018 08:44:00 AM
Total of eight rifles were discovered to have the same problem.
Lot of experience with the M16/M4 in my youth at that level of shooting you will get barrel wear. Clean and lube never load magazine to capacity
Anonymous said...
Please get the facts before you post incorrect info. Swat is issued department rifles. Mostly 15-29 year old rifles, but issued . FrankenM4s. Now with fresh Dremel tool marks to try and get them to work. The Lamb authorized a guy, not an armorer to Dremel the feed ramps. Major wrongful death lawsuit waiting to happen. Tom, can you say punitive damages. All you merit promotion pay going to pay punitive damages, the irony.
12/21/2018 10:32:00 AM
That’s exactly what happened. So everybody else blowing smoke about a bad batch of ammo suck it. The weapon malfunctioned because of the feed ramps. After the Mercy Hospital Incident, all the rifles were inspected. Eight more were found to have the same problem. Lamb began to panic so he appoints a “rifle committee” with promises of new rifles. All of sudden Carter finds 500k and tries to keep the Superintendent from finding out the truth. Lamb starts making deals with the sell outs on the team not to file a safety grievance. Guys on the team get pissed and make phone calls. Merit promotions lead to people getting killed. Bottom line is the weapon malfunctioned and the swat officer had to clear his malfunction. Jimenez was shot as the rifle malfunctioned. That’s why Carter and Lamb dont want the truth to come out. Leave the team Lamb. It’s going to get worse.
"Use" is one thing. Shooting thousands of rounds a year through your weapon will cause things to wear out and break. AR, Semi-auto handgun or revolver... it doesn't matter.
"Abuse" and "Neglect" are totally different. If you're the one that wont clean their gun on at the least, a semi-regular basis, then fuck you! That tool might be needed at a moment when your life or the life of someone else is at stake.
Talk to any of the people on the Range. They have more than a few unfortunate stories of our fellow officers coming in with unloaded, half loaded, no round in the chamber, weapon wont function because it's so fouled and dirty... And these officers are supposed to "have our back" when the shit hit's the fan?
Old Grunt said:
nothing wrong with the M16/M4 platform IF it is maintained. Also clean, well-manufactured ammo is a MUST. Yeah, it's not an AK-47 that can be dropped in mud, sand, rarely cleaned, etc, but it's been the rifle of US forces since even before I was a young sprout carrying one in the RSVN circa 1969-70. It's still in inventory for a reason.
I doubt the rifle failed...the amunition probably did...it happens..tap rack bang...carry on on
------------
Its strip, cycle, cycle, insert, then release the bolt for the M4. Clearly, you haven't cleared on yet. Keep yourself restricted to your Glock, fanboy!
said...
Would you take out a department pistol every day that other guys use? No. So why do guys take out these m4 department rifles that are abused? You make good money, go buy your own rifle...
12/21/2018 01:49:00 AM
Yeah, except when you retire, you must give it up if you continue to live in this "great" city of ours. Read the assault weapon order S04-26-11. Maybe if the city would buy it back at my cost when I retired, otherwise forget it; they really don't want you to have one.
-------------------
Take your rifle and retire somewhere else. Why would you spend your retirement in this God-forsaken city?
The city could get new equipment several ways, first is Federal grants second , they are allowed to use drug money for certain item. But then they couldn't divert the money
Buy new rifles for our SWAT guys. The marine corps will gladly take the old rifle off your hands.
Actually I was pretty impressed "for once" with the guys running the carbine program when I went thru it. I could tell they were all ex-military cause I am myself, "talked like army dogs". I dont know what its like now but these guys knew their shit. It was a good week considering this is a chicken shit outfit and made me drive to some south side ghetto because the nations 2nd largest city doesn't have an outside range.
Its like anything. This city could fuck up a wet dream and anything to do with firearm or tactical training or equipment will get short changed because guns are evil and the city and Dept. are ran by assholes.
"""" Anonymous said...
Half of these so called range instructor clowns are not even properly trained to even find the malfunction in these carbines and most of these goofs are there because of that time old clout or in better words it's who you know. The entire training division of the Chicago police Department is made up of clowns er officers that for the most part have not seen the streets in a decade or more, yet they train the recruits to good standards, shittttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt, you kidding me. FOP, Brass and the stinking politicos know it, been knowing forever but just don't give a fuck. And on the subject of firing these things, any retard with half a brain can properly aim, shoot and even clear a malfunction from these murderous weapons of mass destruction(liberal/democratic talk,LOL)with a little bit of practice like anything else on this job. Lost track, the bottom line is that nobody gives a fuck in the upper chain of command. Enough said, now let me go back to watching "Training Day" on the department phone and before anybody says anything about that, I don't give a fuck either. Peace my brothers and sisters in blue, fuck the white shirts, LOL..............""""
Why is everybody upset?! We need more training in how to make transgenders feel special, not a properly functioning swat unit
Old Retired Guy Here, Again !!! I really don't have enough information regarding this incident to make an "Intelligent" comment.
What about "YOU" ?
Anonymous said...
10,000 rounds a year is kind of a lot, if that's true. A couple years of that is a lot of wear and tear on the rifle.
Anyway, for anyone looking at signing up for the carbine class and getting your own, I will give a big THUMBS DOWN to Stag Arms. They charged my card and forgot to mention that their Black Friday rifles were not in stock. three weeks go by and finally I get a shipment notification. The day it's supposed to get delivered to my FFL I check the shipment number on UPS and it says that Stag Arms is requesting the package be returned to sender. I called customer service and a very sarcastic lady informed me that someone in our Cook Co. Sheriff's office called them personally to inform them (after the firearm was already shipped to the dealer) that nobody in Cook County was allowed to have any of their products. She clearly meant law enforcement also (not that I necessarily believe that that makes me super special) because I informed her that Stag Arms was one of the approved manufacturers for CPD and she responded with a very snarky well we're not selling to anyone in your county.
Sorry for the rant, but I just had to let people know who doesn't appreciate our business.
12/21/2018 09:24:00 AM
You would buy from Stag Arms and have it shipped here rather than drive up to DSA and pick the one you want? Consider yourself lucky and take a road trip. I have Colt, DSA, Bushmaster, DD, and others and the DSA is as good as the next when taken care of.
Rahm got a good deal on .556 at Vanecko Global Armory & ColdWar Surplus Brokers Ltd. Shijiazhuang, China.
A 12¢ savings on every case, thank you very much.
- When seconds count - count on Rahm’s Procurement Team to buy seconds.
Sanctuary First.
Why all the drama about a malfunctioning weapon that was cleared and did its job. Could happen to anyone at anytime well maintained or not. Maybe rifle was working and ammunition malfunctioned. In any event not the end of the world. Shooter shot and officer OK.
UST trying to make it about a itsy problem. Just maybe the officer failed to clean weapon properly, maybe bad ammo bottom line all ended well as could be expected, shooter dead and officer with bad rifle not hurt. Why all the finger pointing over a weapon malfunction. Does anyone know if department weapon or his own weapon for sure. Heard a lot of the SWAT had their own long guns just like most of you have your own on duty guns.
If your mag is good for 30 rounds, only load 28. Some magazine brands are better than others and regardless you need to let the springs stretch from time to time so if no rounds are expelled for a few days, unload and reload to allow the springs to stretch.
- - - - -
How often do you loosen the valve springs in your car to allow the "springs to stretch?" What about all the rest of the springs in the gun? Do you take them out to let them sleep on the table for a few days?
Old wives tales. Properly made springs don't take a set or need to stretch. Repeated cycling is what wears out springs.
12/21/2018 03:01:00 PM
The reason to load 28 in a 30 round mag is to leave some play in the magazine. Depending on what magazine you have some springs are stronger than others. At times, a fully loaded magazine with strong springs will not properly seat if the bolt is closed.
OT: class of Sgts in January will be split into 2 separate classes w/ 2 separate starting dates. Congrats to the deserving. F merit picks!
I took the carbine class way back when it first started. I remember the instructors saying in regards to department supplied rifles, "do you really want to rely on equipment provided by the city that your life may depend on? If you have the means
purchase your own.
-------------
We get paid pretty well plus uniform allowance. Buying a personal M4 is only half the battle, deploying and training with it is another. Carbine Operators should be able to purchase their own rifle and train with it. Lots of lazy operators out there who don't deploy. More likely they don't train with it.
Anonymous said...
Thought those guys all bought their own fancy rifles? Some guys I know (regular beat guys) have spent over two grand on their own guns.
12/21/2018 03:15:00 PM
Because those beat cops are professionals. Our swat team cares only about $$$$.
Anonymous said...
Would you take out a department pistol every day that other guys use? No. So why do guys take out these m4 department rifles that are abused? You make good money, go buy your own rifle...
12/21/2018 01:49:00 AM
Yeah, except when you retire, you must give it up if you continue to live in this "great" city of ours. Read the assault weapon order S04-26-11. Maybe if the city would buy it back at my cost when I retired, otherwise forget it; they really don't want you to have one.
12/21/2018 02:25:00 PM
I too got that letter telling me I must rid myself of my M-4. Screw that. I bought it, it is in excellent condition. No way I am dumping it. If the City catches me with it, so what. What is is, an ordinance complaint? I don't keep it in my car, it is in a gun safe. Screw the City. Gangster Disciples have loads of assault weapons but I must divest mine? Not a chance.
When I qualify for IROCC, the range officers stress that biggest cause of malfunctions in bad ammo.
Suburban PD Sergeant here... A few questions if I may:
1. Does the City provide your rifles? I assume ammunition too?
2. Can you buy your own if you wanted?
3. Is your General Order out in the public area so I can read it? I am curious to compare it to ours.
4. Do you guys mostly run iron sites or scopes or dot sites?
5. Does most everyone use .223 or do you allow .308's?
Us, we can buy our own rifles. Only restriction is that the lower has to have a serial number and chamber the 223 rounds. No 80%'ers. No polymer receivers. Aside from that we can do pretty much what we want.
We do not shoot near enough. I think I shot 1,000 rounds when I went to NEMERT and that was like 10 years ago. Last year I shot 100 rounds. Also our range is 25 yards. Probably not long enough, but then again, if you think about it a 4 lane lane roadway is like 75 feet wide. It is like shooting across Mannheim Road if you think about it.
I do know that cleaning and reasonable lubrication is mandatory. Over lubing it is just as bad as it attracts dust and dirt. I keep it in a soft case which keeps the gun relatively clean. We should have racks in the squads but we don't.
The rifle I have is an older DPMS that I bought at Shores. I use the iron sites; I never owned a scope, just figured it would get knocked out of alignment when I need it the most.
Thanks for your time and stay safe!
WOW, Are we lucky to have a know it all like you to set us straight. Thank G-d you are available to point out that ALL instructors are clowns and fuck all white shirts. You are the gift that we need in policing! Guys (or maybe you are a girl) like you make me sick. Its people like you who are pretenders. Pretending that you know everything there is to know about everything involved in policing. Im surprised that every major law enforcement agency in the world isnt knocking down your door for your expertise.
Why dont you crawl back in mommies basement and STFU.
12/21/2018 08:36:00 AM
WOW, did I hurt you're feelings Buster. Never said "all" dumb ass and as far as the white shirts, maybe I did over exaggerate, sorryyyy for hurting you're feelings. Unless you are a white shirt, a bad one at that. I'm a guy also, howdy. I might not know everything about policing but pretty much been here for a while, coming up to 34 yrs. and buster let me tell you something, like that old saying "Been There Done That" done a little bit of everything all over in my career and I never wanted to be a white shirt either, currently a dick on the southside for the last 18 yrs. greatest job in the world by the way. Most of my colleagues are white shirts also, some bad or some good but good bosses to the troops. Oh, and son maybe I will crawl back into you're mommies basement and make you another sibling before I retire,LOL....
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Does the department still have an armorer? I know for a while they did not appoint one, used the slot for a gofer instead. The armorer, who is appointed to the slot, is responsible for all department weapons and has to be highly qualified and needs to keep updated on all weapons used by the department. Of course, this means spending some money for the travel and tuition for these courses.
12/21/2018 11:45:00 AM
Are you kidding me, one armorer for the whole of the department. That is a lot of work and too much responsibility, especially for the condition of weapons in general that I have seen in my time with the department. I'm a certified class 3 FFL armorer and would never apply for that position unless I had a crew of certified armorers and a proper shop with all the proper tools. But with this department to spend that type of money on what I just mentioned they would go berserk and rather plant trees on some nice neighborhood. Anyways, that's my plan when I retire from this outfit and of course not here in SHITCAGO or CROOK COUNTY. Thought I put my two cents..........
Anonymous Anonymous said...
shittttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt, you kidding me. FOP, Brass and the stinking politicos know it, been knowing forever but just don't give a fuck. And on the subject of firing these things, any retard with half a brain can properly aim, shoot and even clear a malfunction from these murderous weapons of mass destruction(liberal/democratic talk,LOL)with a little bit of practice like anything else on this job. Lost track, the bottom line is that nobody gives a fuck in the upper chain of command. Enough said, now let me go back to watching "Training Day" on the department phone and before anybody says anything about that, I don't give a fuck either. Peace my brothers and sisters in blue, fuck the white shirts, LOL..............
12/21/2018 01:17:00 AM
I'm not sure where to start, but if this reads anything like a narrative on your case reports, I know why you hate white shirts. They don't care for you either.
12/21/2018 12:14:00 PM
It's called sarcasm you prick and I never said I disliked all white shirts but there is a bigger rather than smaller amount of bosses that are just here for the paycheck. While there is a small amount of bosses that will go to bat for there troops. As far as the department that don't give a fuck, that is pretty much the truth buster. Get out of what ever hole you're in and see for yourself how this department is being run down by the politicos and the fucken puppet yes brass. Did I hurt your feelings darling or are you a white shirt also. Oh, I forgot that my grammar sucks but I made my point and I never got rejected a case report in my 34 yrs. on the job, prick.....
Anonymous Anonymous said...
...HK 416 5.56mm..very reliable..
12/21/2018 04:11:00 PM
Now here is somebody that knows their business, absolutely correct but the reality is this is fucken SHITCAGO, to cheap to buy anything new rather than hand me downs from other city departments especially when it comes to the police department. Just look at all of our inventory from car PDT's to District computers, weapons,etc. This department is so outdated with equipment that it is pathetic and useless to even talk about. Two more years to go....
Anonymous said...
"Thought those guys all bought their own fancy rifles?
Some guys I know (regular beat guys) have spent over
two grand on their own guns."
12/21/2018 03:15:00 PM
"It's YOUR life...
How much do you value it?"
-Unknown but variously attributed to
Bill Jordan, Elmer Keith or Col. Jeff Cooper-
"Short-cuts get you cut!"
-Ol' Ghetto Wine Head-
As an aside...
There was a lot of debate a few years ago
about D.I. vs. Gas Piston AR platforms.
YMMV...
Keep it clean.
Keep it lubed.
Keep it simple.
Refrain from "getting cute" with ANY
weapon platform. Specs are SPECS for damned
good reasons.
Putting a Dremel to a feed ramp is
"getting cute." If you have to Dremel
a feed ramp on your rifle, your rifle
is at a minimum half an ass-hair from
being a paper weight with a trigger.
>Some chimp just blazing away with
a grinding bit - Free hand - No vice -
No padding/blocks - Sparks flying
every which kind of way<
only difference is quality of the barrel, i know, i build them and tested them for years.
Anonymous said...
If your mag is good for 30 rounds, only load 28. Some magazine brands are better than others and regardless you need to let the springs stretch from time to time so if no rounds are expelled for a few days, unload and reload to allow the springs to stretch.
- - - - -
How often do you loosen the valve springs in your car to allow the "springs to stretch?" What about all the rest of the springs in the gun? Do you take them out to let them sleep on the table for a few days?
Old wives tales. Properly made springs don't take a set or need to stretch. Repeated cycling is what wears out springs.
12/21/2018 03:01:00 PM
The reason to load 28 in a 30 round mag is to leave some play in the magazine. Depending on what magazine you have some springs are stronger than others. At times, a fully loaded magazine with strong springs will not properly seat if the bolt is closed.
12/21/2018 07:49:00 PM
Magazine springs ARE ultimately "perishable."
No matter WHO they're made by.
Reputable magazine manufacturers strive to be on top of their QC.
But...
Devil can be in the details over whether they have ownership
of magazine spring fabrication or if their springs are 3rd party.
Not necessarily a BAD thing.
But...
Material?
Critical.
Tempering?
Critical.
Quality Control?
Critical.
And even if all planets are in alignment?
Shit can and will happen.
Shit CAN be mitigated to a degree.
Shit can and will STILL happen.
Train and prepare for shit as best you can.
"This is MY rifle. There are many like it, but THIS ONE IS MINE.
My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
Without me, my rifle is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will…"
I got MY OWN carbine, because I didn't trust the department's, and after I qualified,I wouldn't require my supervisors approval to sign one out.
It also WAS SUPPOSED to give me preference of a WORKING rifle rack equipped vehicle on my watch, but as I was being fucked over by the "rear echelon paper tigers", that call them selves supervisors, I was dumped in the Relief Pool, and forced to play Musical Squad Cars for every tour of duty, looking for a vehicle with a working rifle rack.
(Preferably one that wasn't in the rear of a squad car, that I could get shot trying to get out of the malfunctioning rack, hence
I had to contact the rack manufacturer for a personal Allen Wrench, and key for the rack, and had to adjust it to secure my rifle EVERYDAY )
It does no good to show a
" supervisor " that they are in violation of the G.O. denying me a vehicle with a rifle rack.
I was informed that these were merely a suggestion of operation, and not a set in stone guideline.
Per the racks manufacturer, the city sprang for their lesser quality, cheaper rack.
There should be at least two carbine qualified officers on the street per watch.
Of course that would require there actually being squad cars, and Officers a to man them.
" Para-Military Organization" my ass!!!
Be safe Officers......
Rumor has it that a few Swat Sgt’s and the exiting Swat armorer reccomended some range guys who were actually qualified for the job but was shot down by the roid Sgt as he would train his SWAT guys to do the job, guess he fucked that one up as well.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
shittttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt, you kidding me. FOP, Brass and the stinking politicos know it, been knowing forever but just don't give a fuck. And on the subject of firing these things, any retard with half a brain can properly aim, shoot and even clear a malfunction from these murderous weapons of mass destruction(liberal/democratic talk,LOL)with a little bit of practice like anything else on this job. Lost track, the bottom line is that nobody gives a fuck in the upper chain of command. Enough said, now let me go back to watching "Training Day" on the department phone and before anybody says anything about that, I don't give a fuck either. Peace my brothers and sisters in blue, fuck the white shirts, LOL..............
12/21/2018 01:17:00 AM
I'm not sure where to start, but if this reads anything like a narrative on your case reports, I know why you hate white shirts. They don't care for you either.
12/21/2018 12:14:00 PM
It's called sarcasm you prick and I never said I disliked all white shirts but there is a bigger rather than smaller amount of bosses that are just here for the paycheck. While there is a small amount of bosses that will go to bat for there troops. As far as the department that don't give a fuck, that is pretty much the truth buster. Get out of what ever hole you're in and see for yourself how this department is being run down by the politicos and the fucken puppet yes brass. Did I hurt your feelings darling or are you a white shirt also. Oh, I forgot that my grammar sucks but I made my point and I never got rejected a case report in my 34 yrs. on the job, prick.....
12/21/2018 10:45:00 PM
I'm the prick? Your original post wasn't sarcasm, it was punishment for whoever bothered or had the ability to read it all. It's pretty clear that I hurt your feelings, sorry, but at least I did it in only 3 sentences. I didn't make you read thru a rambling, uni-bomber type, manifesto to get to the point.
Let off a couple of rounds right in the lot before duty and don’t forget to reload in this city no one will care!
“Old story move along”
To whom have you mentioned having a Carbine problem/issue? I can tell you that i have never turned anyone away if the had Carbine related issues. Our office is in the academy in the basement,come see us!
Listen these guys in that unit better stop thinking about themselves and their egos. Weapons can always malfunction. The officer recovered and completed what had to be done. Parts for this weapon are inexpensive. I get that there are problems there but this should never been given to the media.
One rifle, sure
Two rifles, unlikely
Eight rifles, all with the same "malfunction" and all from one single SWAT unit?
Training, maintenance, or outright neglect. If any of those events, then everyone from trainer to armorer to chain-of-command needs to go.
Agreed. We always want to blame the machine, like blaming guns for the high rate of murders and shootings, when in fact it is the person behind the gun. This all smacks of poor equipment management and maintenance and the individual responsibility of the individual officer issued the carbine. Care for it, clean it and it will work. But I bet they shoot - and nowhere near 10,000 rds per officer - and put their carbine and handgun back in service with no cleaning. You see that all the time after quals and I can bet a bunch that SWAT isn't any better. As another point, I shoot NRA CMP competitions. I shoot a "Frankenstein" (some replacements parts) M-1 Grand rifle manufactured by Winchester in 1943. I shoot about 1200 rds per year. I can recall 1 malfunction and that had to do with operator (mine) error. It's not the age of the gun but how well maintained it is.
Please make sure the guy that thinks you have to let the magazine spring stretch out isn’t on a swat team or worse the armorer.
It's called sarcasm you prick and I never said I disliked all white shirts but there is a bigger rather than smaller amount of bosses that are just here for the paycheck. While there is a small amount of bosses that will go to bat for there troops. As far as the department that don't give a fuck, that is pretty much the truth buster. Get out of what ever hole you're in and see for yourself how this department is being run down by the politicos and the fucken puppet yes brass. Did I hurt your feelings darling or are you a white shirt also. Oh, I forgot that my grammar sucks but I made my point and I never got rejected a case report in my 34 yrs. on the job, prick.....
12/21/2018 10:45:00 PM
Hey goofball, when you wrote fuck the white shirts that translates that you say fuck ALL white shirts no matter how you try to back track. Every thing you wrote in your response can be said for many patrol officers too! 34 yrs on the job is commendable, but it appears that its time for you to go if you are so bitter. Finally you did not really make your point due to poor grammar. Mark Twain once said:"The difference between the almost right word and the right word is really a large matter—'tis the difference between the lightning-bug and the lightning."
WOW, did I hurt you're feelings Buster. Never said "all" dumb ass and as far as the white shirts, maybe I did over exaggerate, sorryyyy for hurting you're feelings. Unless you are a white shirt, a bad one at that. I'm a guy also, howdy. I might not know everything about policing but pretty much been here for a while, coming up to 34 yrs. and buster let me tell you something, like that old saying "Been There Done That" done a little bit of everything all over in my career and I never wanted to be a white shirt either, currently a dick on the southside for the last 18 yrs. greatest job in the world by the way. Most of my colleagues are white shirts also, some bad or some good but good bosses to the troops. Oh, and son maybe I will crawl back into you're mommies basement and make you another sibling before I retire,LOL....
12/21/2018 09:50:00 PM
You didnt hurt my feelings one bit. My skin is far thicker than that. I retired as respected white shirt (words of my peers and subordinates, not mine)with 37 yrs on the job. Supervised and worked with many great police officers that I was proud to serve with but worked with many who had a crap attitude and thought they knew it all! I let the readers pick what category they think you fall into. Also been there and done that! Get over yourself! As you should be aware since you are in tune with everything, is just because you are a dick, doesnt mean you are a good one! Many dogs in the det division as there are in patrol and some holding rank. That is inevitable in a dept as large as CPD. My mommie would welcome you coming throught the door as she hasnt been to the gun range lately and your overinflated head would be a great target for her to shoot at!!! Have a great holiday!
Anonymous Anonymous said...
One rifle malfunction at least for me, doesn't make the case for faulty equipment. You're talking many possibilities without even examining the facts or evidence. Was the malfunction caused by faulty ammo, bad magazine, a badly maintained rifle; these are just a few examples of things that could go wrong. An example of bad ammo, I just purchased 150 rounds of American Eagle, first ten rounds shot perfect, then on the 11 shot, misfire. Cleared the round and observed the primer had been hit without the round going off. Just for my own curiosity, I re-chambered the round and attempted to see if it would fire. It did not, however, my point is lets first see what and examination of that rifle reals.
12/21/2018 09:30:00 AM
I would be leaning to bad ammo, or a bad mag...... To the SWAT guy who cleared that jam, good job.
Even the smaller towns replace and update their rifles. They know that training and heavy use go hard on them. I don't know if I would buy a used one unless it was a collectible. Buy new and stay Mil-Spec. Any "patrolman's carbine" will work on the job. Ruger, Bushmaster, Colt, DSA, Rock River, Sig Sauer, Springfield to name a few.
They are cheaper now than they gave ever been, and the Police get a decent discount. If you have one and it's old and worn, use it to train. Train some with the new one, and keep it lubricated. Stay safe….
Merry Christmas!
Feed ramps should not be grinded with a Dremel Tool; they should be polished using the polishing bit, then polished again using Flitz and thoroughly cleaned.
The initial round should be chambered using the bolt catch release, not the charging handle. This way, with the bolt open, you can insert a fully loaded magazine and not worry about chambering issues. The reason is the BCG is open it cleanly strips the first round off the top of the magazine as it goes into battery. It does not have to compress the rounds in the magazine as it moves back from the closed position when using the charging handle, which causes feed issues.
FOP exploiting a tragedy! Learned from the best, giving city taste of it’s own medicine.
12/21/2018 01:49:00 AM
Yeah, except when you retire, you must give it up if you continue to live in this "great" city of ours. Read the assault weapon order S04-26-11. Maybe if the city would buy it back at my cost when I retired, otherwise forget it; they really don't want you to have one.
-------------------
Take your rifle and retire somewhere else. Why would you spend your retirement in this God-forsaken city?
Friends, relatives maybe grandkids would be a few reasons. Plus if you live in a nice neighborhood why not stay. You can always go south for the winter
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I doubt the rifle failed...the amunition probably did...it happens..tap rack bang...carry on on
Examination should be done and the cause determined. Then everyone would know the actual cause. M4 is available and so should thecleared round be available. Let the troops know
Suburban PD Sergeant here... A few questions if I may:
3. Is your General Order out in the public area so I can read it? I am curious to compare it to ours.
======
directives.chicagopolice.org Knock your socks off Sarge!
BTW, they sprang for the 'free' search engine, which sucks, so you'll have to do a little detective work to find whatever order you want.
Best way to search is do a Google search limited to the above site. Like this:
site:directives.chicagopolice.org (skip the < >'s)
Maintain your weapons. Maintain your duty gear. Practice and familiarize yourself with them. Some cops shoot once a year and clean their guns once a year as well. SMH
Build your own using MILSPEC parts. It's far cheaper than buying one, even with the police discount, and fun to do. You can build a quality M4-style AR-15 for around $600 with a quality chrome-lined barrel and a Nickel Boron (overkill) or Black Nitride BCG.
It's not a case of a single incident, or poor weapons maintenance. In the last 3 years ask the CO how many rifles have gone down catastrophically, to the point where they were completely non-functional. His answer will be he has no idea. The answer 5, with many others for other issues related to age and use. Gas keys, broken bolts, extractors, gas blocks. Bottom line is that the team, including the former armorer repeatedly requested new weapons and warned of the dangers with the current inventory. But when you have a CO more worried about his next merit promotion, than the team, this is what you get. A change of leadership is absolutely necessary in swat, 1 and 2 have destroyed the team. 2 was brought to the team on a phone call and never went through a selection process, he was deemed tactically incompetent but was not removed from the team. #1 is known as the blonde. For a reason. Doss, Carter, Johnson, someone grow some balls and do what needs to be done. This is only going to get worse, an yes Carter you will be embarrassed more so in the coming future. That could all be avoided by making the changes.
Anonymous said...
Build your own using MILSPEC parts. It's far cheaper than buying one, even with the police discount, and fun to do. You can build a quality M4-style AR-15 for around $600 with a quality chrome-lined barrel and a Nickel Boron (overkill) or Black Nitride BCG.
12/22/2018 05:50:00 PM
Did a 80% lower with purchased jig from 5d tactical. Had the recommended router, they supplied the end bit and this lower receiver came out perfect. Used mil spec parts from BCM and everything fit and function as designed. When you do a 80% lower there are no numbers on the receiver and you do not need to have someone with a FFL, its mailed right to your door. I was going to build the upper, however, I went to Bear Creep Arsenal and found an AR-15 complete upper for $289.00 out the door. Again an AR upper is not regulated and comes right to your door, no FFL need. Upper is not a gun, a completed 80% lower receiver is considered the gun. The great thing about doing it this way, you avoid all the FFL people, background checks, and no record you have an AR. Maybe I got lucking, the upper has a stainless steel barrel with a 8" twist and it groups an 1" or less at a hundred. The beauty of having a good lower receiver, you can order almost any type of AR upper and swap out uppers. I've ordered a couple 80% lowers, because I know the Dem's are going regulate them in the near future.
34 years on the job, Goof? Good God, time to go. Nothing like being maxed out and still working... I know. I know... All the special employment you want, right? Guess you break even on the extra penson contributions you lose out on after the 18th day of CHA....
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Would you take out a department pistol every day that other guys use? No. So why do guys take out these m4 department rifles that are abused? You make good money, go buy your own rifle...
12/21/2018 01:49:00 AM
Yeah, except when you retire, you must give it up if you continue to live in this "great" city of ours. Read the assault weapon order S04-26-11. Maybe if the city would buy it back at my cost when I retired, otherwise forget it; they really don't want you to have one.
12/21/2018 02:25:00 PM
I too got that letter telling me I must rid myself of my M-4. Screw that. I bought it, it is in excellent condition. No way I am dumping it. If the City catches me with it, so what. What is is, an ordinance complaint? I don't keep it in my car, it is in a gun safe. Screw the City. Gangster Disciples have loads of assault weapons but I must divest mine? Not a chance.
You got it Brother
If this stinking City of Shitcago,CROOK COUNTY or filthy FEDS even think of getting their hands on my properly bought and registered weapons when I retire from being an LEO HONORABLY they gonna get a surprise, call it a threat because it's not a threat but a truth. Like that old saying "FROM MY DEAD COLD FINGERS". I'm sure I'm not the only one out here in the LAW ENFORCEMENT COMMUNITY that feels like that either. It's good enough for these fucken POLITICOS for us LEO to be armed while we are working, but as soon as we retire "FUCK YOU" turn in you're rifle. Well FUCK THEM, come and get it yourselves, fucken pricks......
Anonymous Anonymous said...
WOW, did I hurt you're feelings Buster. Never said "all" dumb ass and as far as the white shirts, maybe I did over exaggerate, sorryyyy for hurting you're feelings. Unless you are a white shirt, a bad one at that. I'm a guy also, howdy. I might not know everything about policing but pretty much been here for a while, coming up to 34 yrs. and buster let me tell you something, like that old saying "Been There Done That" done a little bit of everything all over in my career and I never wanted to be a white shirt either, currently a dick on the southside for the last 18 yrs. greatest job in the world by the way. Most of my colleagues are white shirts also, some bad or some good but good bosses to the troops. Oh, and son maybe I will crawl back into you're mommies basement and make you another sibling before I retire,LOL....
12/21/2018 09:50:00 PM
You didnt hurt my feelings one bit. My skin is far thicker than that. I retired as respected white shirt (words of my peers and subordinates, not mine)with 37 yrs on the job. Supervised and worked with many great police officers that I was proud to serve with but worked with many who had a crap attitude and thought they knew it all! I let the readers pick what category they think you fall into. Also been there and done that! Get over yourself! As you should be aware since you are in tune with everything, is just because you are a dick, doesnt mean you are a good one! Many dogs in the det division as there are in patrol and some holding rank. That is inevitable in a dept as large as CPD. My mommie would welcome you coming throught the door as she hasnt been to the gun range lately and your overinflated head would be a great target for her to shoot at!!! Have a great holiday!
12/22/2018 10:21:00 AM
Howdy
I still think I hurt your feelings, but you will agree that the politicos and certain yes brass on this job haven't run this department into shit. And we all know it's not only here in SHITCAGO, but all over this great nation. Come on EX-BOSS you trying to say that with the shit this department is throwing at us every single day with new bullshit that I would not have a crap attitude, are you kidding me. Don't even get me started with those days that you served or even me for that matter were different times. We didn't and especially you did not have to go out there with the present rules that are there to punish us "DO OR DO NOT, you're still fucked" by the DEPARTMENT. I really do feel sorry for a lot of these good young officers coming into a job that is not fun or respected anymore. Oh, and by the way. I hope you were a good boss like you're peers said, I hope you are enjoying a good retirement as well because I'm almost out myself. Have a merry Christmas and a happy new year boss....To all a merry X-Mas and a happy 2019....GOD BLESS.....
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Build your own using MILSPEC parts. It's far cheaper than buying one, even with the police discount, and fun to do. You can build a quality M4-style AR-15 for around $600 with a quality chrome-lined barrel and a Nickel Boron (overkill) or Black Nitride BCG.
12/22/2018 05:50:00 PM
Did a 80% lower with purchased jig from 5d tactical. Had the recommended router, they supplied the end bit and this lower receiver came out perfect. Used mil spec parts from BCM and everything fit and function as designed. When you do a 80% lower there are no numbers on the receiver and you do not need to have someone with a FFL, its mailed right to your door. I was going to build the upper, however, I went to Bear Creep Arsenal and found an AR-15 complete upper for $289.00 out the door. Again an AR upper is not regulated and comes right to your door, no FFL need. Upper is not a gun, a completed 80% lower receiver is considered the gun. The great thing about doing it this way, you avoid all the FFL people, background checks, and no record you have an AR. Maybe I got lucking, the upper has a stainless steel barrel with a 8" twist and it groups an 1" or less at a hundred. The beauty of having a good lower receiver, you can order almost any type of AR upper and swap out uppers. I've ordered a couple 80% lowers, because I know the Dem's are going regulate them in the near future.
12/22/2018 09:28:00 PM
This drives the anti gunners fucking crazy. He's right, a complete ar upper is not a gun. Let's say you do something and ballistics can be traced to your upper. Get rid of that upper and put on another. I'm stuck in this shit hole, so for home defense, I went with a 300 BlackOut upper with a 10.5 barrel. Get the pistol stock to make it legal and you have one of the best home defense guns money can buy. Swapping out uppers is nothing, just pull two pins and removed the upper. Extra parts is a must, they are coming for the ar's and if you don't think that's possible your card carrying democrat.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Far too many variables involved to be concluding that there is one only one source of the malfunction, including the source of the story. Don’t go off half cocked on this one.
12/21/2018 08:44:00 AM
Bingo!
Anonymous Anonymous said...
"Any firearm can jam. Making mountains out of molehills?"
My colt python 357 never jammed.
12/21/2018 10:15:00 AM
That's what happens when you shoot 30 rounds per year.
And revolvers DO malfunction if they're not maintained properly.
Anonymous said...
34 years on the job, Goof? Good God, time to go. Nothing like being maxed out and still working... I know. I know... All the special employment you want, right? Guess you break even on the extra penson contributions you lose out on after the 18th day of CHA....
12/22/2018 10:43:00 PM
Hey Kid !!! give it a break will ya ? How the hell do you know what financial or personal situation that person with 34 years on is in. Could be a child with medical issues that keeps that person on, so get over yourself you ignorant moron
The cause of the malfunction. Very old rifles repeatedly having parts swapped out. Feed ramps were mismatched with the upper receiver, round hung up on the feed ramps. If the team was allowed to properly fire enough of the duty rounds they would have discovered the issue with many of the rifles, but because the city doesn't want to provide enough of the ammunition due to cost this is what happens. When we bring up these issues to the CO, he does nothing. Too worried about the next promotion. Chronic failures of the leadership are the root causes of all the issues. The fix that the CO comes up with, allowing a person who is not an armorer to take a Dremel tool to the feed ramps. Complete idiocy, and a huge lawsuit in the making. What would have happened if the swat officer wasn't able to clear the malfunction as quickly as he did? How many more people would have been killed?
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
34 years on the job, Goof? Good God, time to go. Nothing like being maxed out and still working... I know. I know... All the special employment you want, right? Guess you break even on the extra penson contributions you lose out on after the 18th day of CHA....
12/22/2018 10:43:00 PM
Hey Kid !!! give it a break will ya ? How the hell do you know what financial or personal situation that person with 34 years on is in. Could be a child with medical issues that keeps that person on, so get over yourself you ignorant moron
Isnt t it great that the first guy knows when it’s time for you to go. Even knows about your reason for staying , special employment
There are many reasons for staying and it’s not always money. I stayed on a long time and it was my choice. Always told the know it alls, you retire when you want and I’ll retire when I want and it’s none of your business
2/21/2018 10:15:00 AM
That's what happens when you shoot 30 rounds per year.
And revolvers DO malfunction if they're not maintained properly.
12/23/2018 11:37:00 AM
Nothing happens when you shoot 30 rounds a year. Some officers shoot well and other just plain suck. They flunk the 30,then the 2nd shoot
That’s followed by the 8 hr course that they miraculously pass only to flunk the next year. Keeps repeating itself every year
Anonymous Anonymous said...
34 years on the job, Goof? Good God, time to go. Nothing like being maxed out and still working... I know. I know... All the special employment you want, right? Guess you break even on the extra penson contributions you lose out on after the 18th day of CHA....
12/22/2018 10:43:00 PM
Maybe he has a good spot. Or that he loves the job and enjoys going to work.
Everyone's a goof but you, right?
Howdy
I still think I hurt your feelings, but you will agree that the politicos and certain yes brass on this job haven't run this department into shit. And we all know it's not only here in SHITCAGO, but all over this great nation. Come on EX-BOSS you trying to say that with the shit this department is throwing at us every single day with new bullshit that I would not have a crap attitude, are you kidding me. Don't even get me started with those days that you served or even me for that matter were different times. We didn't and especially you did not have to go out there with the present rules that are there to punish us "DO OR DO NOT, you're still fucked" by the DEPARTMENT. I really do feel sorry for a lot of these good young officers coming into a job that is not fun or respected anymore. Oh, and by the way. I hope you were a good boss like you're peers said, I hope you are enjoying a good retirement as well because I'm almost out myself. Have a merry Christmas and a happy new year boss....To all a merry X-Mas and a happy 2019....GOD BLESS.....
12/23/2018 02:04:00 AM
Thanks for the well wishes. We are after all on the same team. I do want to say though that were always parts of the job that we all didnt like,however we still pressed on. We accomplished many things in spite of poor bosses, conditions, co-workers, crappy rules and laws because at one time we all stuck together. Camaraderie is gone from this job. That is one of the major problems. Most officers seemed to follow the rules even though we didnt like them. Maybe that was the military background or just the way officers from our generation were raised. You are 100% correct that times have changed and certainly not for the better. Im glad Im out and I am enjoying retirement. Enjoy your retirement as well and the time you can now spend with your family. Merry Xmas to you as well!
Merry Christmas to my fellow officer who calls me and some other 33 year veterans Goofs, for continuing to work,including special employment. Obviously you don’t realize that some officers have 33 years and are under 55 and would have to pay
Health insurance unlike the 55 year old with only 20 years who enjoys the medical benefit. Talk to FOP and get the rule changed and we all will retire.
Anything mechanical can fail. Part of training is to deal with failures. A fair amount of firearms failures are really ammunition failures and some are operator failures. Without knowing exactly what the failure was it is hard to blame the rifle.
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