Interesting Take
FLSA rules are kind of difficult to get around as this commentator points out:
- The question I want answered is how the department plans to comply with the FLSA mandate of overtime compensation for hours worked over 40 in a 168 hour (7 day) period. For example, those in day off group 61 had two weeks in August that 45 hours were worked. Now that's going based off 9 hours. If you go off of 8.5 hours it's 42.5. Federal law states we are owed overtime compensation.
The FLSA even goes so far as to name Police, Fire, and other first responders as NOT exempt from this.
It also further states that collective bargaining agreements may enhance but not diminish this provision. Just Google FLSA overtime exemptions.
Have the unions looked into this?
Labels: from the comments
posted by SCC at 12:02 AM
51 Comments:
No getting around that pesky federal labor law... fuck you pay me !
You need an accountant on your payroll
just to keep them honest. Of course, mistakes
always work out in their favor, just like the bank.
Uh. It doesn’t go by 40 hours in a week. It goes by 160 hrs in a 28 day period.
It's been around a long time and is kept track of separate from your regular hours.
Check out E02-03-01 SWORN TIME AND ATTENDANCE RECORD
How about if you forget about swiping then we will forget all about you backpaying us all this FLSA money owed over the past years. Or???? Let’s get retroactive money back for the flsa money owed.
The City knows the rules but hopes the employees don’t, thereby saving money, to sequester in a secret slash fund. Naaa, the City can’t be
that smart.
29 CFR § 553.230 - Maximum hours standards for work periods of 7 to 28 days - section 7(k).
CFR
§ 553.230 Maximum hours standards for work periods of 7 to 28 days - section 7(k).
(b) For those employees engaged in law enforcement activities (including security personnel in correctional institutions) who have a work period of at least 7 but less than 28 consecutive days, no overtime compensation is required under section 7(k) until the number of hours worked exceeds the number of hours which bears the same relationship to 171 as the number of days in the work period bears to 28.
28=171
Remember, we have a retard unpaid lunch.
Why would the unions care?
It’s a very valid point, which affects all membership and their wages. So obviously our useless union will bend over and just let the city do whatever they want.
There are a lot of ways that this whole swiping business is going to cost more than it saves in the long run.
Trying to pinch pennies in new ways, as the old saying goes, “be careful what you wish for.”
Have you even crunched the numbers on that math?
I’m not sure how to go about doing it-but even on the low end of 2.5 hours per week for DOG 61 those 2 weeks, per officer (assuming 4.5 years of seniority- again on the low side, roughly $42/hour).
2.5 hours at time and a half is 3.75 hours. Times 2 for 2 weeks is 7.5hours worth of OT.
7.5 times $42 = $315.00
Let’s assume 600 people citywide are in DOG 61,
$315 times 600 = $189,000.
Double that, assuming that another DOG has the same issue as the DOGs rotate through the week, and that brings the total to $378,000.
On the low end. Per month. That this swiping idea will cost.
Multiplied by 12 months, that’s a hair over 4.5 million PER YEAR.
I’m sure the numbers I have would be off, as they are all just ballpark figures to illustrate the size of that small problem that was pointed out.
Nicely done, Groot! In your effort to fuck us, we appreciate the money!
Interesting
My understanding of FLSA in regards to police overtime is anything over 43 hours in a 7 day period is paid at a time and a half rate.
So everyone swipe and put in overtime for over 40 hours! And city cant regulate holiday days off cancelled! Once they make ushourly they have to PAY double time and half on holidays! Wtf is wrong with our FOP lawyers?
U are so Cute. I used to think like you.
In the beginning The W/C would just throw the fuckers out.
If you believe I’m lying, that’s unfortunate. You know Jaws? The Real Jaws?
Jaws’s Lil bro was a Lt in 019. U write young, so I don’t know if you know who “Benny Hill” is. An English Comic that employed his short Bald Uncle. The Uncle looks like Jaws’s Lil bro.
Jaws was in the joint at least Two times. Don’t remember what for. We were working 1st in the 6&2 days. U’d Be fucked on a bear minimum 3 hours legit OT Caper. U know when you want nothing more to go Home.
Jaws’s Lil lil lil bro threw out all yellow slips.
No credit for The OT!
A true CPD Prince
I want you to come out of the money/time thing the best way it works for you.
And if I work 3 hours of court on Tuesday, and 3 hours on Wednesday, does that make my shift on Saturday all overtime?
FYI
Section 7(k) of the FLSA provides that employees engaged in fire protection or law enforcement may be paid overtime on a “work period” basis. A “work period” may be from 7 consecutive days to 28 consecutive days in length. For work periods of at least 7 but less than 28 days, overtime pay is required when the number of hours worked exceeds the number of hours that bears the same relationship to 212 (fire) or 171 (police) as the number of days in the work period bears to 28. For example, fire protection personnel are due overtime under such a plan after 106 hours worked during a 14-day work period, while law enforcement personnel must receive overtime after 86 hours worked during a 14-day work period.
The key here is “normally scheduled work hours over 40”. As a public sector employee, you’re not entitled to OT pay for hours over 40 that are built in to your schedule. Any time worked past the 42.5 is subject to the OT rate.
The fire Dept, specifically EMS or “medics” challenged this nearly 2 decades ago and won as there was and currently is no provision in the law exempting EMS from that rule, only fire and police. As a result, they get OT for their normal hours worked over the threshold. Local 2 can provide more info if needed.
Oh wait, they don’t give a crap about medics.
Have the unions looked into this?
Huh? Just grieve it. Uhhh. We’ll look into it.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
This comment made me seriously laugh out loud....
“All you morons who've never worked in the private sector should STFU.”
Sir, I do believe that if you had a job in the private sector, and left it for a simple city job, then that would indeed make YOU the moron.
9/25/2019 05:04:00 PM
You missed the point meathead, you actually have to do work in the private sector, you bet your ass I left that for this job 23 years ago.
Government police officers, fire fighters, and (some) EMS employees may be paid either on the standard 40 hour work week or on so-called "7(k)" systems (which are also sometimes called "Garcia cycles"). 29 USC §207(k). In 7(k) systems, FLSA overtime pay is due if, when, and to the extent a police officer, fire fighter or EMS employee actually works more than the number of hours specified by the Department of Labor as applying to a particular "work period." For example, under a "14 day 7(k) work period" system a police officer is due FLSA overtime pay only if, when and to the extent actual hours worked exceed 86 in the 14 day work period. Under a "28 day 7(k) work period" a fire fighter is due FLSA overtime pay only if, when and to the extent actual hours worked exceed 212 in the 28 day work period. Permissible work periods may be from 7 to 28 days, and the FLSA overtime thresholds applicable to particular work periods are set out in a chart published in the FLSA regulations. 29 CFR §553.230.
A government employer may choose to use a 40 hour work week or a 7(k) system at its option, and may use a 7(k) system for FLSA compliance purposes even if it actually pays its employees on the basis of 40 hour work weeks. To use a 7(k) system for FLSA purposes requires only that the employer establish such a system (for example, by issuing a policy statement to that effect), and that the affected employees actually work on a schedule which repeats and recurs on some multiple of between 7 and 28 days. Which particular 7(k) threshold applies depends mostly on what the employees' schedule is. For 7(k) systems, pay computations mostly follow the regular FLSA rules, with the "work period" being substituted for the normal "work week."
Beat Cop 002
Have the unions looked into this?.....................................
They have asked Groot for permission to look into this and she replied that they may not!
Next question
This sounds like a no-brainer win for us. I think we should look into back pay too.
You wanna play games? We'll play some fucking games.
OP didn’t know what he or she was talking about. We go on a 28-day work period, not a 40-hour work week.
I miss Benny Hill.
Now, kees me you fool!!!!
FOP Lodge 7 brought this up to the city and were promptly reminded that the 5th floor alone decides who gets rewarded with secondary post employment opportunities like CTA, CCSP etc. that earn a secondary pension in as little as 10 years and it never came up again.....
What people fail to realize is that your schedule is no different whether you swipe or dont swipe. The law doesnt magically change since you now swipe in and out. Swiping is here, it's not going away. Yeah it sucks but many have had a good run. Now its over.
But some weeks you only work 4 days which is only 34 hours that week. It goes by 28 day period for us and it balances out.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
We were all told that math was important in school.
But it was so dry. They never told us why.
We're gonna have to go over each paysub like a
checkbook statement.
this is a complicated issue, made so by the lawyers that wrote the laws. It takes a team of lawyers to unravel and interpret the laws, just as they like it.
No they have not. They are too busy stuffing their faces with Italian Sausages with sweet peppers. The union works for the City, not you. Pass the Diet Coke.
Years ago there were (and continue to be) similar issues at the federal level. I suggest looking at a firm like Bernstein and Lipsett P.C. This firm typically handles cases against federal agencies, but who knows???
Swiping is not new. Been around for years with other police departments. Wouldn’t you think all these questions about desk crews, going to court would put us over the 40 hr weekly limit, lunches, etc would have been addressed and worked out. Seems other departments have figured it out. I sure don’t want swiping but I think there are answers available to all the questions especially with the federal law regulating the number of hours allowed weekly before OT kicks in
Toledo Mud Hens could beat the Cubs. Don't count
on any OT. I'd rather go to Toledo and get hustled
for a Fifth Third credit card than put up with Wrigley.
(Who knew those scales would ever become so valuable?)
What about the 8 hour between shift FLSA rule? The unions should be looking into this to see if this rule applies in one form or the other to guys swiping out at 0200/0300 etc. and required to attend court at 0900. Court attendance is part of the job and no one ever bitched and moaned about it before because a decent supervisor had the discretion to cut you early so you get your proper rest, but now that's all out the window. No more early ducks for anyone including the tact teams. How long before tact officers who pull in the bulk of the arrests in the districts say "Fuck this, it's not worth my health getting 4 hours asleep a night to only do it all over again the next day." When rewarding employees is forbidden, productivity falls. Expect a drastic decrease in arrest activity effective 9/30/19 and a subsequent uptick in violence soon to follow.
And if I work 3 hours of court on Tuesday, and 3 hours on Wednesday, does that make my shift on Saturday all overtime?
No, it is only based upon total hours worked. You have contact overtime and then FLSA overtime based upon the total hours worked in a 28-day period. Some Departments, like Joliet, used a 40-hour work week and do not use the 7(k) exception. They also pay the employees pension contribution up about 9k per year. Its an added bonus to make the troops happy.
Why would the unions care?
It’s a very valid point, which affects all membership and their wages. So obviously our useless union will bend over and just let the city do whatever they want.
There are a lot of ways that this whole swiping business is going to cost more than it saves in the long run.
Trying to pinch pennies in new ways, as the old saying goes, “be careful what you wish for.”
Have you even crunched the numbers on that math?
I’m not sure how to go about doing it-but even on the low end of 2.5 hours per week for DOG 61 those 2 weeks, per officer (assuming 4.5 years of seniority- again on the low side, roughly $42/hour).
2.5 hours at time and a half is 3.75 hours. Times 2 for 2 weeks is 7.5hours worth of OT.
7.5 times $42 = $315.00
Let’s assume 600 people citywide are in DOG 61,
$315 times 600 = $189,000.
Double that, assuming that another DOG has the same issue as the DOGs rotate through the week, and that brings the total to $378,000.
On the low end. Per month. That this swiping idea will cost.
Multiplied by 12 months, that’s a hair over 4.5 million PER YEAR.
I’m sure the numbers I have would be off, as they are all just ballpark figures to illustrate the size of that small problem that was pointed out.
Nicely done, Groot! In your effort to fuck us, we appreciate the money!
Some districts, the late cars in particular, get call up till 5-minutes before checkoff. Be very careful what you wish for. On midnight these are usually domestics requiring the highest most serious response from the Dept.
Uh. It doesn’t go by 40 hours in a week. It goes by 160 hrs in a 28 day period.
No, 171 for the period. Yes this puts you over the 40 hours per week. But this was included in section 7k. My wife is a lawyer and did not know about this exception.
Not our union. They just want that extra pay to roll us over so we can take it raw and dry.
Nice Hat Trick
Federal agents hit McCook, Lyons and Summit as part of criminal investigation
https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2019/9/26/20885615/mccook-summit-lyons-village-hall-fbi-raid-jeff-tobolski
More popcorn now on to city hall and crook county building onward
See Mayor Groot we had an understanding Now swipey this swipey that might just cost you some real money and back pay not retro Oops bean counters not reading the FSLA rules
My understanding of FLSA in regards to police overtime is anything over 43 hours in a 7 day period is paid at a time and a half rate.
Wrong again... sorry, the City picks the number days up to 28 days in an overtime period.
In any period your day off group aligns so you get FLSA time on your regularly scheduled hours (OT does not count), the first hours used when you drop a slip are the FLSA hours. That 3 on the from or end? Poof! It's gone.
"..We go on a 28-day work period, not a 40-hour work week..."
Close....but more accurate is our Pay Cycle.
Anonymous said...
What about the 8 hour between shift FLSA rule? The unions should be looking into this to see if this rule applies in one form or the other to guys swiping out at 0200/0300 etc. and required to attend court at 0900. Court attendance is part of the job and no one ever bitched and moaned about it before because a decent supervisor had the discretion to cut you early so you get your proper rest, but now that's all out the window. No more early ducks for anyone including the tact teams. How long before tact officers who pull in the bulk of the arrests in the districts say "Fuck this, it's not worth my health getting 4 hours asleep a night to only do it all over again the next day." When rewarding employees is forbidden, productivity falls. Expect a drastic decrease in arrest activity effective 9/30/19 and a subsequent uptick in violence soon to follow.
9/26/2019 12:23:00 PM
Yea ok yawn are you the same guy who says "I will make late arrest and fix them, or is it late traffic stop?" Keep talking then star wars Jammie's from mom warm milk in basement take your nap!
I would suggest that you speak to your timekeeper so they can show you exactly how overtime is calculated. I find it's easier to show officers than trying to explain it. Reading the order can be very confusing.
The CFD works at least 2 24 hour shifts pr week which is a minimum of 48 hours, or 8 hours "overtime" each week, so pays what's called "shift differential" which is extra money on a line item listed on our pay checks.
It's in our contract.
Your FOP will probably bargain for the same thing...if they're smart.
I say let it ride until then and make them pay the time and a half for rushing this into place without proper planning
Stay safe public safety brothers and sisters,
A CFD fireman
I still dont understand why people care about swiping out. No one is saying you have to stay later than normal. Nothing has changed. We are salaried employees. They just want to track scammers who show up and leave.
Like someone said... Keep us here to official time, dispatch us until quitting time and I GUARANTEE I'll be able to go in with something everyday that will get me 2-3 or more hours in OT A TOUR! Who will need a side job? We're so busy everyday, with a RAP, No units available. Answer jobs all tour long, save activity for 10 minutes to punch out.. "Squad, had an unavoidable TVB on the way in...I'll need someone to drive the car in so I can begin processing. What's that? No units available to drive the car in? No problem, I'll wait at the scene." Dragging ass, an easy 2 hours OT.Plus court date. This isn't even counting all the POSSIBLE domestic calls that we 1F so we can leave on time...Forget the "You just want him to leave?" Option, straight to the "you should sign complaints and we'll arrest him." Another few hours of OT. Gone are the days of a Sgt. "Taking care of you" the next tour for late arrests, Since OT "slips" are computerized now it's easy and objective, no WC giving you the stink eye for OT.
Like someone said, hey city! " careful what you wish for"
When I came otj overtime was hour for hour, no time and a half and time only. No Money. And any time remaining on the books after your furlough was wiped off. Times have changed for the better in that respect.
Are their any districts on 10 hour days?
Disclaimer: Don't take any of the below too personally, we're all blue and this post is half tongue-in-cheek with a little ball-breaking thrown in. We're police and have to have thick skins after all.
If you guys in units and teams had half a brain cell and one ball, you'd be ditching your "spot" and go back to district patrol because it's all the same now. The order repeats "ALL PERSONNEL", underlined and italicized, will swipe in and "SWIPE OUT."
Where are the perks now? Why keep sticking your necks out for numbers when you have to stay like the rest? Especially for overtime?
Don't worry, district patrol isn't such a bad, scary place. It is the job, after all. It is what you make of it. Not too difficult. Not too much is asked of you either.
Oh, but if certain units or teams or bosses don't have to swipe out because of some rumored exempt list, well, now that will be a problem. The 9 for 9 guys working beat cars (the supposed "backbone of the department", treated more like the ass of the department) will not take such an unfair practice in stride.
But back to basics. So, guys not in district patrol or beat car assignments, what are ya gonna do now? Continue towing the line? Kissing the ring? Doing the bidding?
Or are you guys gonna show the City the price of feckless, maliciously-inspired policies and bring special operations to a grinding halt?
You're the ones keeping the numbers-driven policing so dear to the Compstat crowd going onward and onward. Whatever will they have to talk about at the next Compstat meeting when the only graphs and charts up are showing a massive spike in crime statistics without ANY mitigating graphs and charts for ISRs, TSSSS cards, arrests, etc. which are generated by the hard-working officers not tied down to radio jobs and the mundane inanity of the beat car?
If there isn't an AVALANCHE of To/From reports asking to be reassigned to district patrol come 01 Oct 19 (without, let it be noted, any disrespect or hard feelings intended towards the good bosses in some units who reward their guys for good work), then you warriors don't have a hair on your blue jean-clad asses. You'll lay down for anything they do to you. And that is sad. Because if the letter of the Order is followed, then the good bosses will not be able to take care of you anymore for your good work. So what's the point then? Where's the gratitude from the Employer for your efforts? Where's the love?
As for us in patrol, we're already in the ass-end of things and have nowhere else to go. And probably wouldn't go anywhere else if given the chance, seeing what you have to give up for any other type of assignment.
The Order for this coming fiasco states that its purpose is for the "benefit" of the Department, which it clearly is not. There are certain things The Police can do to thank the City for this "benefit." We're not talking about "blue flu" or "job action" which would be unethical and illegal and all sorts of other bad things. But there are other options that Police Men can take, if they have the faith, confidence, and will to take the leap.
On the plus side, if there were a sudden flood of officers from units and teams to district patrol on the watches, there would be so many of us that there probably wouldn't be raps anymore, just the right amount of work to go around for everyone instead of bare-bones skeleton crews chasing around all night because they can't put up one rapid car in most districts on most watches. With adequate staffing, most district officers should only be getting a couple three jobs a night. Hasn't been the case in over a decade.
It's 9 for 9 now, lads. It's your move.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Like someone said... Keep us here to official time, dispatch us until quitting time and I GUARANTEE I'll be able to go in with something everyday that will get me 2-3 or more hours in OT A TOUR! Who will need a side job? We're so busy everyday, with a RAP, No units available. Answer jobs all tour long, save activity for 10 minutes to punch out.. "Squad, had an unavoidable TVB on the way in...I'll need someone to drive the car in so I can begin processing. What's that? No units available to drive the car in? No problem, I'll wait at the scene." Dragging ass, an easy 2 hours OT.Plus court date. This isn't even counting all the POSSIBLE domestic calls that we 1F so we can leave on time...Forget the "You just want him to leave?" Option, straight to the "you should sign complaints and we'll arrest him." Another few hours of OT. Gone are the days of a Sgt. "Taking care of you" the next tour for late arrests, Since OT "slips" are computerized now it's easy and objective, no WC giving you the stink eye for OT.
Like someone said, hey city! " careful what you wish for"
9/26/2019 08:19:00 PM
You can do that now and stay everyday and quit your second job now
Anonymous Anonymous said...
FYI
Section 7(k) of the FLSA provides that employees engaged in fire protection or law enforcement may be paid overtime on a “work period” basis. A “work period” may be from 7 consecutive days to 28 consecutive days in length. For work periods of at least 7 but less than 28 days, overtime pay is required when the number of hours worked exceeds the number of hours that bears the same relationship to 212 (fire) or 171 (police) as the number of days in the work period bears to 28. For example, fire protection personnel are due overtime under such a plan after 106 hours worked during a 14-day work period, while law enforcement personnel must receive overtime after 86 hours worked during a 14-day work period.
9/26/2019 03:50:00 AM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
The key here is “normally scheduled work hours over 40”. As a public sector employee, you’re not entitled to OT pay for hours over 40 that are built in to your schedule. Any time worked past the 42.5 is subject to the OT rate.
The fire Dept, specifically EMS or “medics” challenged this nearly 2 decades ago and won as there was and currently is no provision in the law exempting EMS from that rule, only fire and police. As a result, they get OT for their normal hours worked over the threshold. Local 2 can provide more info if needed.
Oh wait, they don’t give a crap about medics.
We aren’t the first police department to go to swiping. I’m sure the others have figured out the hours the FLAS rules
Post a Comment
<< Home