Changes to Pension Rules?
We've been reading the comments in our post from a few days back about the Chicago Contrarian article dealing with the pension and we'll say we've found out a few things we didn't know.
We also saw this info - anyone got a handle on this?
- What the union ISN'T telling you is the following (which is being agreed to):
1> there's going to be a tier 3: increased contributions of 12%.
2> police and fire pension funds will merge, making them a public safety pension fund with less overhead
3> tier 2 will get what CFD just got (highest 4 years averaging instead of highest 8 years) but early retirement penalty is staying
4> health care at 55 deal stays but it will go up to 5% annuity (up from 3.5%) to retire early before it kicks in (to have a lower annuity) or encourage people to stick around
5> phase-in increased contributions for tier 2 (probably 10-11%)
6> in exchange, the city will agree to iron clad contribution increases, but the 90% funding ramp will be pushed back to 2065 to buy them more time to stabilize
7> in the future, raises will be lower but there will be far more non-pensionable incentives and bonuses and pay
We're thinking this is going to make it harder to (A) keep cops around, (B) harder hire people to make this a career, and (C) provoke a few lawsuits along the way.
We did get this from a couple of readers:
Mandatory retirement pushed back to 65. Since cops die earlier according to the actuary tables, this means less years of pension payouts - a rather cynical way to "improve" the health of the pension instead of taking solid steps....such as capping the pension at the highest testable rank instead of gold braid incentives that go to the political promotions.
posted by SCC at 12:05 AM
56 Comments:
If coppers want to hang around until 65 and waste their lives away then so be it. Don't know why any sane person would want to, but who am I to judge? Besides, that leaves more money in the pension fund.
What is the life expectancy of a police officer who works until 65 years of age?
Instead of highest testable rank, how about highest PASSED TEST, NON-MERIT rank.
They might as well het rid of a retirement age if they really want to save on pensions.
I remember in the late 90s before we had a retirement age there were some old time captains working into their 70s. Lets not forget John Townsend, the 1st deputy, who did 44 years retired in 2000 and died three years later. You had to love the old timers work ethic and greed and the millions in pension they saved the city.
Since cantanzara only spoke of money again like last time, I figured there would be significant take away. Wonder if he and scheming cosentino will take credit for that too
None of this is good.
They are raising the retirement age because nobody will take this job.
Changing pension is done by the legislature not by contract
What would composition of pension board be? How many Police vs Fire board members?
Wouldn’t Fire have to be on board too?
Well, some of the things will help the fund which is definitely needed. But 2065???
Andy Renko is on the BS
Good article on how we are screwed with on social security...
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/12/some-public-workers-may-receive-reduced-social-security-benefits.html
Maybe being over 1600 officers short plus all the other positions that were eliminated has contributed to the problem along with years of fiscal mismanagement.
Bet there's some that would stay till they hit 70 if allowed.
Chicago Contrarian is usually spot on. This time, they got it wrong. Firefighters were never at 100%. The Laborers Pension was actually funded at 126%. In 1998, Bruno Caruso stood up to Daley when shortshanks tried to let when one of his "friends" skim off the health insurance. In 2001 the FBI chases Mr. Caruso out of the Laborers Union and took it over. In 2004, Daley skipped the City's contributions to the Laborers pension fund. The following year Daley skimmed the monies taken out of the workers' paycheck. And the damn FBI did nothing.
2065 who the fuck agreed to that??? We've been fighting to prevent them from kicking the can down the road. Why are we now going backwards??????
In poker moving the full funding of pensions back to "2065" is a tell the city is bluffing. Don't expect it to ever get funded. You need to see what relatives of union leadership are getting sweetheart jobs with the companies managing these pension funds. Something is not right here.
can’t see myself doing traffic stops in my 60’s.
It’s amazing this city has millions for illegals , but can’t pay into a pension for first responders. It show you what they think of us. Next time one of you hard chargers wants to chase after a man with a gun or pursue a fleeing vehicle think about how you’re treated by this city.
Good article on how we are screwed with on social security...
The Windfall Profit Provision was passed under the leadership of Rep Dan Rostenkowski,democrat,that was a voter favorite of the Polish community in the Bucktown area. Many people who get public pensions automatically lose 60% of Social Security benefits unless you have met the standards of substantial payments to SS over a defined period of years and a defined yearly earnings. Medicare benefits don't change. In addition if you are are in the WPP class you cannot inherit the spousal benefit. Tens of thousands of SS recipients have lost earned SS payments because of the WPP, more money saved so the government can hand it over to migrants (illegals) and other leaches sucking on the government that for their entire life.
Just about EVERY fact listed is complete fabrication and a shameful example of journalism!!!
Irresponsible posts like this is exactly what divides the membership unnecessarily.
John Catanzara Jr
President
Chicago John Dineen Lodge #7
Did anyone get news of the intention of Pritzker to roll article 3 and article 5 (Chicago)pensions into the imrf fund?
Its not a rule Firemen retire at 63 its a law.And the State of Illinois has to pickup any unmet promised pension.
I retired at 63 and have lived to 74 and counting. I have been paid to open my eyes on the morning for eleven years. Very few can patrol effectively at that age. They will be paying into the pension instead of drawing, so that helps. I believe most who try to make 65 will just damage their brains with two extra years of alcoholism alcoholism.
A house mouse dream, retirement at 65. When you finally turn on your star, they will hand you a drool cup for your chin.
When you retire your body will feel like an empty bag of broken lightbulbs.
Tier 2 already contributes approximately 10.5 %.
Chicago has been f-ing around with pensions for decades. The only saving grace for anyone is that the IL courts have said "You made those promises - you MUST live up to them." If not for that pensions would have been cut long since
Get rid of the GOLD BRAID political spot. The Fireman did it!
EJ is really working around the clock spreading this misinformation about the pension. These rumors are topics of past discussions that were mainly internal. Nothing has been pushed forward and Erin is only looking to start her run for fop prez. She just needs to learn to cool it because the next election isn’t till 2027.
This pretty much sealed the deal I’m getting out at 20. Not sticking around for things to come. Get out of this shithole while you can.
Pensions lol we r screwed boys and gals!
In the last half of the 1990's I was sitting in a downtown bar having a couple of pops before heading to the suburbs. There were three guys at an adjacent table talking about possibly going into managing pension money for the city. After talking about it awhile they came to the conclusion that for the amount of money they were given to manage they would have to hire four no show/connected employes at 100G+ apiece, plus benefits. That would negate a great deal of the profits they could make. Second, they knew it was a pay to play deal and the person who approached them would throw them under the bus if the feds started investigating. I bet a lot of similar conversations are happening right now in regard to police and fire pensions.
Every read the FOP magazine. People are living well into there 80s. For sure alot of folks are gonna stick around till 65.
Anonymous said...
They might as well het rid of a retirement age if they really want to save on pensions.
I remember in the late 90s before we had a retirement age there were some old time captains working into their 70s. Lets not forget John Townsend, the 1st deputy, who did 44 years retired in 2000 and died three years later. You had to love the old timers work ethic and greed and the millions in pension they saved the city.
11/13/2023 01:29:00 AM
Townsend was a Daley guy, after his retirement the rule was changed to 63. If there was no retirement age you would see some in squad cars propped up like "weekend at bernies"! No thanks, I'll leave the job & state at 55
Some chuckleheads would welcome that.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
If coppers want to hang around until 65 and waste their lives away then so be it. Don't know why any sane person would want to, but who am I to judge? Besides, that leaves more money in the pension fund.
What is the life expectancy of a police officer who works until 65 years of age?
11/13/2023 12:35:00 AM
64
1:21am is right on
merits can invest their undeserved pay raise in nationwide
If we let them defer the payment, we are screwed.
A website that explains the Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP).
When I started collecting SSA I was told that I have to notify then every year when my pension increases so they can adjust my SSA payments accordingly.
https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/wep.html
Glad I'm leaving at 50. Jumping on the wife's insurance and never looking back. 18 months can't come soon enough.
65?! That's great! Now I can have a kid in my late 40's and not feel like a goof! Having a kid with a woman that I hate (employed as either a stripper, barmaid, or hair dresser) while working a job I can't stand, is the only logical, responsible thing I can do now at this point in my life.
No more gold braid pensions would save us a lot of money as a matter of fact, just like the massive amount of security on Brandon‘s detail, the Chicago police officers getting security specialist pay, which is fine except that it is Sgt‘s pay and it is pensionable which is ridiculous for being a political flunky
when do teachers start paying in so my property taxes can stop paying for them?
I got on late and may stay a little Longer. I eat right and workout everyday and every $ is an increase in pay and pension benefit and survivor benefit and the longer I stay the closer I get to max. And with what they want from us it’s not a bad job. I have a neighbor who just got laid off in his late 50’s from his IT job. He said it was ageism and now he had to look for work at 57. I’m close to that age and have guaranteed work till 63 or 65 and great pay and benefits. Front row seat to the madness. Go dig ditches for a living for a few weeks then get back to us about how bad this job is.
If coppers want to hang around until 65 and waste their lives away then so be it. Don't know why any sane person would want to, but who am I to judge? Besides, that leaves more money in the pension fund.
What is the life expectancy of a police officer who works until 65 years of age?
It won’t be you so who cares.
Pensions? Don't talk about pensions. You kidding me? Pensions? I just hope we can get another paycheck.
Well JCat how do we know what’s true and what’s not when you hide all the negotiations like nuclear codes?
Does anyone have the name and telephone of Attorneys that have been successfully at suing the city?
cat said...
Just about EVERY fact listed is complete fabrication and a shameful example of journalism!!!
Irresponsible posts like this is exactly what divides the membership unnecessarily.
John Catanzara Jr
President
Wow, look who finally put their name to a post instead of insulting members behind anonymous comments. So genius please tell us, if "just about EVERY fact," is a lie, which ones aren't? I'm sure how you can see how "just about" and "EVERY" contradict one another. Actually your dumbass probably can't.
SSA gets your tax returns every year and adjusts your benefits and Medicare IIRMA as needed. They know your income . And a lot more .
Just about EVERY fact listed is complete fabrication and a shameful example of journalism!!!
Irresponsible posts like this is exactly what divides the membership unnecessarily.
John Catanzara Jr
President
Chicago John Dineen Lodge #7
11/13/2023 09:23:00 AM
We are with you, John.
For Chicago.
For Freedom.
Hold The Line!
We await your instructions.
9:23am
Playing loose with your words again I see Mr. President. You didn't say every single thing that was mentioned was a fabrication which means there is some truth. Tell us which of the items are true and which are not
This means Lisa Ford can come back.
Anonymous said...
I got on late and may stay a little Longer. I eat right and workout everyday and every $ is an increase in pay and pension benefit and survivor benefit and the longer I stay the closer I get to max. And with what they want from us it’s not a bad job. I have a neighbor who just got laid off in his late 50’s from his IT job. He said it was ageism and now he had to look for work at 57. I’m close to that age and have guaranteed work till 63 or 65 and great pay and benefits. Front row seat to the madness. Go dig ditches for a living for a few weeks then get back to us about how bad this job is.
11/13/2023 08:12:00 PM
You are correct how many coppers they have left this job are trying to get back. I’ll tell you the number over 150 are doing their best to get back on this job making big money younger coppers are all they do is complain that they refuse to do the job, it’s just ridiculous. Maybe mommy did not give them enough warm milk as they’re being put the bed in their basement because they’re still living at home but yet they’re driving their jacked up dodge pick up or their jacked up jeep with a deep tinted glass thinking how cool they are look at us! A family doctor a physician who spent a ton of money always a ton of money makes about $150,000 a year we have coppers making close to $300,000. Yes I know with the overtime you can do what you want you going to another department you are accountable. Every minute you are being watched and you have to actually do your job some of them. You actually have to have a real degree not the bullshit degree you got it some junior College.
That was funny about Lisa Ford. She only wants to work part-time….lol
King Kitten said:
Just about EVERY fact listed is complete fabrication and a shameful example of journalism!!!
Irresponsible posts like this is exactly what divides the membership unnecessarily.
John Catanzara Jr
President
Chicago John Dineen Lodge #7
11/13/2023 09:23:00 AM
In “Detective Speak”, this is what we call telling on one’s self.
A tacit admission fueled by a defense mechanism when cornered and called out on bullshit.
Johnny Boy and his crew of FLOP cheerleaders going on the defensive when tough questions get asked by intelligent members who actually want transparency from those elected to represent them.
Why don’t you worry about what you’re doing and don’t worry about what other coppers plans are!!!
No one cares that you retiring at 55 but you
I for one would love to be able to stay until 65. I could max out and not have to get another job for 3 college tuitions. But that’s me I’m an older single parent.
By 2065 they wont need to contribute a penny,the pension will be bankrupt. Everyones wetting their pant over the 12%, guaranteed to pass. Just like when that know it all Angelo suckered everyone into selling out the young guys saving the city millions, holding back duty availability. These contracts are trash, get a new unions in here. Nothing on residency, thanks to your trustees voting against challenging it under hamburglar Graham. Nothing on the people held hostage who are maxed but under 55. PBPA is even worse. Sit on their hands and ride the mee too. How was that Lake Tahoe conference you shut the office down for? Anything useful to share with the members, other than the tab? Guarantee retiree ealth will be off the table soon enough, thats why you can stay until 65. Wonder what CTU's contribution was increased to?
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